Handicapable Man Almost Shoots Classmate

In a video that has been making the rounds on Facebook, a man in a wheelchair appears to be attending a class where the shooters are practicing a drill where they shoot as they are approaching the target.

While normally I would watch the video and move on with my life, the handicapped shooter caught my attention. It appears that the surface of the range is heavily littered with rocks, shotgun casings, and other brass. One of the ROs notices the shooter having trouble and walks over closely followed by another RO.

With THREE ROs now aware of the situation the first RO starts pushing him telling him to shoot. Keep in mind that the other students are already well down range and the unidentified shooter is manipulating the gun with one hand. As the RO pushes him repeating “You shoot, you shoot, you shoot, I got this, you shoot” the wheelchair-bound shooter takes some shots at the target down range. A couple of these shots looked to be near misses. Yikes!

The shooter in the wheelchair should have stopped what he was doing as soon as other students passed him, all THREE of the the ROs should have called cease fire. Had I been in this class, I would have raised hell and called it quits for sure. Just because this is 2016 and everyone can do anything according to the participation ribbon committee, that does not mean that you should be unsafe when accommodating someone’s handicaps.

If anyone knows the name of the facility or instructor, please email me so I don’t ever attend either. Running a training class like this is first rate bullshit.



Patrick R

Patrick is a Senior Writer for The Firearm Blog and Co-Director for TFBTV. He is a verified gun nerd. With a lifelong passion for shooting, he has a love for all types of firearms, especially overly modified plastic handguns, precision rifles, and AR based things. You can follow Patrick on Instagram @tfbpatrick, Facebook, or contact him by email at TFBpatrick@gmail.com.

The above post is my opinion and does not reflect the views of any company or organization.


Advertisement

  • VanDiemensLand

    What the actual F@$% ? Aren’t RO’s supposed to teach range safety? I’d be majorly Pissed if I were one of the other patron down range of that guy, and it looks like he barely has control of the firearm.

    • VanDiemensLand

      PS. WTF is “handicapable”?

      • Dan

        It’s the PC way of describing handicap people. Also it is probably hard for him to have control of the weapon when someone is pushing your wheelchair through that mess. I imagine it would be hard for anyone, which probably means it shouldn’t have been attempted.

      • Joseph Goins

        “Physically challenged” is the modern term.

      • QuadGMoto

        It’s one of several typos in this article. (Something which is too common on TFB.)

      • Phillip Cooper

        BS foisted upon the public in the name of “Equality”.

    • Phillip Cooper

      Range SAFETY Officer?

      Nope, nothing about safety in the job description…. move along….

    • USMC03Vet

      Bruh, this is Yeager Country. They are notorious for unsafe range derp.

  • Hoplopfheil

    Whooooa that’s stupidly dangerous.

    • AC97

      If there was ever a reason to wear body armor to the range, this would be it.

      But still, I would never take this class, never.

  • BeschdeDest

    Its Yames Jeagers crew from Tactical Response and he will defend this. Expect a response video on this incident from him soon.

    • VanDiemensLand

      Is it really? He’s a douche-weed!

      • Phillip Cooper

        I don’t know him personally, but can certainly state that what I’ve seen of him does tend to support this assumption.

    • Dr. Longfellow Buchenrad

      Do you mind telling us why you say that? Im not saying youre wrong, but there are a number of people who would love to pin this on him whether its true or not and its very easy to say its Yaegers crew without giving any support to that comment.

      That being said I do know he has no qualms about having someone downrange during live fire; at least under certain circumstances.

      • josh shaw

        tactical response. the students are doing the tactical pirouettes hebis know for and the range they use is forever covered with shell casings because they dont clean it. also i think you can hear yeager himself over the loudspeaker.

        • Swarf

          Be the ultimate operator! Tactical pirouettes! Tactical T-Rex! Derp scan!

        • Dave Biggers

          Wrong again. James was not on the range.

          • Who’s being sexist?

            Dave Biggers says “I guess your gunfight will happen on a manicured lawn”
            So, the handicapped man’s gunfight WILL happen when his unarmed brother is there to push him, huh?
            Why teach mobility to a man who has none while holding a pistol and by himself? It shows an inflexibility in training regime, which is stupid as training NEEDS to be adaptable.
            You cannot guarantee this guy will ALWAYS have someone to push him TOWARDS a threat, teaching him to be an offensive shooter is ridiculous. You should teach him tobe defensive, and call for help. As much as it’s PC to call him “handicapable” fact of the matter is, he isn’t capable of shooting and moving by himself. This is dumb, and you’re being dangerously arrogant by defending it

          • Jerry Nuss

            Pushing him toward the threat also could be thought of as a threat moving toward him.

          • Dave Biggers

            There is no “always”. If he and his brother are somewhere together and they are headed for an exit, should they stop if the exit is blocked by a bad guy or should they continue to try to escape? If their choices are “you push and I shoot” vs. dying in place, wouldn’t it be nice to have the option? Help isn’t always coming anytime soon.

          • Who’s being sexist?

            Yes. If his exit is blocked by a badguy, he should change plans. You trying to justify this is quite hilarious, I said that it shows an inflexibility and serious lack of creativity, it’s true. There is a term “combat ineffective”, if half a platoon is incapable of moving on their own, they are no longer combat effective, and must now fight defensively. Like it or not, wanting to collect his money or not, this man is not combat effective, so teaching

      • QuadGMoto

        It is definitely Yaeger’s training class. VSO Gun Channel was there.

      • stephen

        I dont have any problem with people being downrange as long as its people I know and trust in regards to high risk techniques/stages of fire.

        Looks like this class is comprised of a newbies.

      • Dr. Longfellow Buchenrad

        Ok Im convinced. Im not defending the action at all and I dont care either way about Yaeger. I just know people are frequently too quick to jump on him about crap that he usually but not always deserves.

    • Anonymoose

      This guy should stick to the Precision Rifle classes.

      • BigR

        I disagree, he needs to stay away from a gun range!

    • Lmao

      Jesus I hate that guy.

    • Uniform223

      I recently watched this C rated action movie and that douche was in it… luckily he gets killed off within the first 10 minutes by the main protagonist.

      • Phillip Cooper

        Which douche, the one giving the review or the one giving the class?

        • Uniform223

          James Yeager is the douche I was referring too.

  • Rnasser Rnasser

    How come people actually PAY to attend this kind of criminal negligent class?

    • Joseph Goins

      Unintentional Manslaughter is more appropriate. They aren’t criminally negligent.

      • Tom Currie

        The students wouldn’t be criminally negligent – but if you could find a competent prosecutor and a jury with an average IQ above room temperature, it would be a slam dunk for ALL the ROs being criminally negligent if someone were actually injured in a situation like that in the original video.

        Without anyone injured, you could still make a solid case for Wanton Endangerment against all three ROs.

        • Joseph Goins

          Respectfully, it isn’t “criminally” negligent. To be charged and convicted of criminal negligence means that the government has to first prove that you committed a criminal action (e.g. driving under the influence) that caused someone else to unintentionally die. Tactical Response is not doing anything unlawful by offering training — even though it may be very unsafe. The student, however, would be charged with reckless homicide in Tennessee and the family of the deceased would likely file a wrongful death suit in civil court.

          Title 39, Chapter 13, Part 2 of the Tennessee Code specifies:
          Reckless Homicide: Class D felony, 2-12 years, <$5,000
          Criminally Negligent Homicide: Class E felony, 1-6 years, <$3,000

          • Tom Currie

            Thank you for assuming that your Tennessee law applies nationwide.

            There MAY be some other states that use the adverb “Criminally” as part of the name for a specific crime, but ordinary usage of the term simply refers to any action which IS a crime. So, yes, if you have described the elements of proof correctly in Tennessee, the ROs would be guilty of the crime of Reckless Homicide rather than lesser crime of Criminally Negligent Homicide.

            Regardless of the title that each state chooses to place on the crime, if anyone had been killed in the events shown in that video, the ROs would each have been guilty of whatever name their state chooses to use for the crime when a death is caused by an individual’s wanton disregard for safety.

            And, just in case Tennessee has some strange definition of “wanton”, let me mention that I am using a common generic definition: “The term wanton implies a reckless disregard for the consequences of one’s behavior. A wanton act is one done in heedless disregard for the life, limbs, health, safety, reputation, or property rights of another individual. Such an act is more than Negligence or gross negligence; it is equivalent in its results to an act of willful misconduct. A wanton injury is one precipitated by a conscious and intentional wrongful act or by an omission of a known obligation with reckless indifference to potential harmful consequences.” Generally the element of knowledge is what separates wanton misconduct from simple negligence.

            In this case, presumably the ROs all know their obligations. Two of the ROs abandon their obligation by leaving the students they were supposed to be supervising. The other RO directs a student to fire in an obviously unsafe situation, while the first two ROs fail their duty to prevent that unsafe situation.

          • Joseph Goins

            Tactical Response is based in Tennessee and conducts most of their courses there. As a result, they would mostly find themselves under Tennessee jurisdiction. Good day.

    • Phillip Cooper

      Because the average person is an idiot. Tyler Durden (though fictional) nailed it.

      • DataMatters

        I’m sorry to say that 95% of the classes and things out there are like this. It’s about money more than anything else.

  • karmicforce01

    That is obviously not a range approved tactical wheelchair.

  • Jake

    these seem like the same instructors that will tell their students that fmjs dont kill people because they ‘zip through and dont do any damage’

  • stephen

    Watch about 9 seconds from the end and you see wheelchair guy shoot way to the left because of the ‘instructor’ pushing him over uneven ground- one little extra bump and the guy down range on the left would have got one in the back of his head.

    I spent a career in the Army, was a safety and eventually ran pistol, carbine and crew served ranges – this is exactly what you DO NOT do. What the hell were the RSOs doing? I mean everyone forgets their duty and focuses on wheelchair guy.

    When I was watching the first few seconds I knew what was going to happen – wheelchair guy is trying to wheel forward with one hand and shoot at the same time (one handed) = its an accident waiting to happen. The sad thing is not one ‘instructor’ sees the problem.

    sigh…

    If this is James Yeager and his TR crew and they keep this type of ‘instruction’ going, someone will get seriously hurt or killed – its only a matter of time.

  • USMC03Vet

    The filthiest range of all time. That alone is a safety issue.

    • Phillip Cooper

      Yup. There are times you can’t hear the dialog for the sound of tinkling shotgun shells.

  • Jack Morris

    What blows my mind is not 1 of the students downrange tried to escape the line of fire. I would be hauling ass to get out of the way of that mess. I can’t believe this “training academy” hasn’t gotten sued yet for gross negligence.

    • Xtorin O’hern

      they were probably too focused on living out their James Yeager fantasies to hear the unique snap of a bullet whizzing past

    • stephen

      Me too. Thats how I can tell this was a newbie class.

  • Joe Gamer

    This handicapable individual has been terribly mislead by these instructors. As a wheeled platform operator he should be fielding a vehicle mounted crew served weapon.

    • Frank Grimes

      He actually could walk before he took a Tactical Response class prior to the one shown in the video.

    • Dave Biggers

      Everyone should!

  • Bill

    Stupid nuts. When I do advancing drills each shooter has an instructor assigned, who maintains physical contact with his/her shooter and keeps them aligned with the others.

  • Otm Shooter

    Guy on the far left is also way in front of the shooters next to him. This exercise for a group looks good on paper, but not for what appears to be new shooters.

    PS I love the ballerina twirls at the end of the firing, that way you can see the wheelchair guy cover you with his weapon.

  • Xtorin O’hern

    we have a wheelchair bound dude that shoots with us quite often. Only difference is he runs a modified electric wheelchair and avoids terrain he can’t traverse on top of that there isn’t much that chair of his can’t traverse.

    • Drew Coleman

      Sounds like he knows his limits and works around them so everyone can have good, safe fun/training.

  • Brian

    Let me play devils advocate for a moment. Firearms training classes are designed to enhance your skill set in the hopes it better prepares you for a self-defense incident. Of the many places you might find yourself needing to defend life with a firearm; many of those places will have people all over. In front of you, behind, to your side, etc. We won’t have the luxury of having a “safe” range. Should controlled training take this reality into account?

    • Swarf

      With live rounds in an uncontrolled way on a filthy range in a wheelchair in the mud?

      Sure, sounds totally reasonable, James. I mean “Brian”.

      • QuadGMoto

        It is the inability to exert full control over the pistol due to the range conditions which is the specific problem here. In the real world, I would expect the guy in the wheelchair to either stick to ground he could actually navigate or stop and focus on aim, maybe even drop out of the chair to present less of a target. So I can agree that the trainers created an unsafe situation by insisting that he follow the exact same tactics as everyone else when physical limitations should have lead to different tactics.

        But aside from this particular incident, do you still disagree with Brian’s point?

        • Swarf

          Yes, of course I disagree. Live rounds whizzing past people’s heads? That’s insanity.

          Training is training. Are you seriously suggesting that ranges should have live fire where Joe 5.11Pants can come in off the street and run his un-lubed Wilson Combat behind me at a target downrange?!

          • QuadGMoto

            Do you supposed this is a beginners class?

            Every single training company I’ve seen requires basic level courses before taking higher level courses. I’m definitely not a fan of Yeager’s recklessness, but not even he is that stupid.

          • Swarf

            Then why do you keep moving the goalposts farther and farther in to his camp?

          • QuadGMoto

            No moving goal posts. Just responding to new things you keep bringing up.

          • stephen

            “Yeager’s recklessness, but not even he is that stupid”

            Apparently you haven’t seen a lot of what he has done or condones. How about the JY instructor that told his students to circle up in a cold area of the range, had students throw their firearms on the ground. The ‘instructor’ then stepped on his pistol to demonstrate a point and a round fire taking out a tire of a nearby vehicle. End result: JY defended that stupidity too.

            Don’t under estimate the stupidity of people and NEVER under estimate the stupidity of an ego maniac.

          • QuadGMoto

            I am well aware of that incident. It’s one of the reasons I would never go to his courses or recommend them to anyone else.

            When I was teaching my father-in-law to shoot my .22 pistol, I ran over the 4 safety rules with him before we started and made sure he understood them. Yet I still had to grab the pistol at one point to keep him from muzzling me. That is what beginners do.

            Creating a situation where people are expected to be downrange and you’re doing it with beginners who do not yet have correct safety habits thoroughly ingrained isn’t just creating a change for an accident, it is a near certainty. The incident you referred to is stupid because you should willfully abuse your tools and because it violated the first two rules of safety. Even so, if the gun had not malfunctioned, it still would have been safer than doing these kinds of exercises with raw beginners.

          • Mr Universe

            From someone who was at that class and is in the video:

            “THIS WAS NOT A CLASS FULL OF EXPERIENCED SHOOTERS WHO HAD BEEN TRAINiNG WITH EACH OTHER.”

          • RSG

            What happened was the epitome of stupidity. Why embellish and make the story worse? “told his students to circle up in a cold area of the range, had students throw their firearms on the ground. The ‘instructor’ then stepped on his pistol to demonstrate a point and a round fire taking out a tire of a nearby vehicle”. No one was told to circle up. A few guys went to the parking area to smoke. The instructor joined them. Challenged the student to drop his weapon on the pavement to prove it was only a tool (stupid part 1). Then stepped on it (part 2).

          • stephen

            I’m not embellishing – it was verified by some of the students and other people at the range who witnessed it.

            The range did an investigation, gathered statements and this is what they came up with = multiple witnesses with the same story – that it was part of the ‘class’ that occurred in a cold area of the range. Regardless the end result was JY and the TR crew were banned for life.

            However… lets say you are right; that the people who owned and run the range all lied and got all the witnesses they talked to, to lie about what happened (because they are JY haters), it still does not negate the fact that a JY instructor was doing stupid. Yet JY claims it was good training.

            Seriously? In what world?

            I spent a career in the Army doing grunt stuff and during that time, I got to train with rangers, SF and overseas forces. I also have been in law enforcement and went through their firearms training. I even was part of contracted team of instructors that taught firearms manipulation to Military Police at Fort Carson, and NEVER did any firearms instructor or door kicker I trained with ever have a lesson where you throw you firearm down on the ground to prove its a tool.

            If someone tells you throw down your firearm in training, they are the tool because without your weapon, one is combat ineffective (and that is just plain stupid to think otherwise).

            No offense RSG but its sad what passes for ‘tactical training’ these days in the civilian world.

          • Mr Universe

            Basic level courses teach habits and safety concerns that this video disregards. So, he is either unraveling his students’ progress as they go, or never teaches them basic safety to begin with.

          • QuadGMoto

            Rule # 2: Never point your weapon at something you don’t want to destroy.

            How far away from that something does your muzzle have to be to be safe? As far away as possible is great, but not always possible. (How close do you come to muzzling yourself when holstering?) It seems to me that understanding how close is safe enough is more advanced than “as far away as possible.”

            Is it unreasonable to train for real-life events where your muzzle control might have to be tighter than can be accomplished at an average range? Would it be better to do such training using Simunition? Almost certainly. Is is possible to do Simunition training using the gun you carry in real life? I don’t know.

          • Mr Universe

            Re-holstering is not “pointing”. Therein lies the caveat.

          • QuadGMoto

            One of the reasons I’m not a fan of Glocks is the numerous reports of police officers who’ve shot themselves in the leg while holstering their pistols. The direction the muzzle is “pointing” is the direction the bullet will go, whether you intend for it to be pointed in that direction or not.

            The point is that you must always be in control of your muzzle, period; sometimes very tight control.

          • Mr Universe

            Control is one thing. Aiming/pointing is another. Anyone who shoots themselves in the leg is violating Rule #2 (Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target and you have made the decision to shoot.), not necessarily Rule #1 (Never point the gun at anything you are not willing to destroy.).

          • QuadGMoto

            Talk about dodging the point!

            :::Walks away, shaking head:::

          • Mr Universe

            During a discussion about a video wherein someone acted unsafely, you play devil’s advocate by insisting that the 4 rules of firearms safety were followed…and then come full circle by saying that police officers have negligent discharges even while following the rules.

            You are making two different arguments that are each subverting the other, and you should just admit that you are concocting ridiculous scenarios for the purpose of trolling.

          • CommonSense23

            He has RSOs that don’t even know basic safety. I would love to see if any of these guys have even been to a military RSO school.

          • QuadGMoto

            Is it possible to do the type of training that Yeager is obviously striving for without creating the kind of unnecessary risk that Yeager does?

            It seems to me that the military achieves it, though their training is obviously not entirely free of risk.

            For example, I mentioned that they do live fire exercises. I’ve seen video of them training guys to throw grenades. You would think nothing could go wrong with “throw it into the empty field then duck behind this was.” But the instructor was very clear about what would happen if they somehow screwed up. (They would bodily yank them out of the throwing pit.)

            I’ve seen other live fire exercises where there were obvious steps taken to make it highly unlikely for live fire and bodies to intersect. The classic WWII crawling under barbed wire is an example. There’s almost no way someone could stand up through the barbed wire into the line of fire.

            That Yeager’s course has no apparent precautions like that is a problem.

          • CommonSense23

            The thing about shooting over people’s head is the guns are controlled. Go look at when it is done and you will see that the even if Shaq stood up he wouldn’t get hit do to the machine guns not being able to depress low enough.

          • QuadGMoto

            BTW, it is my understanding that the military also uses “live rounds whizzing past people’s heads” for some of their training.

          • Swarf

            Oh, is this the military? Huh. The uniforms look different.

          • QuadGMoto

            It’s wannabe military in Yeager’s case. And I think we can agree that having such live fire be so uncontrolled is a huge risk.

            It’s well known that how you train is how you fight. Anyone who carries could find themselves in a fight where bullets are fired in their direction. (Attempted mass shooting, robbers, etc.) Given those points, do you think it is somehow always invalid to get some experience of such a situation in a controlled environment?

          • CommonSense23

            Train like you fight is one of the biggest excuses a unskilled trainer can use.

          • QuadGMoto

            Unskilled trainers may say that too, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s actually true, which is why skilled trainers make that point all the time.

          • stephen

            Yes they do (BTDT) but we trained to a level of proficiency that warranted that right to have people downrange. We didn’t just wake up and say lets shoot with people DR.

            Its clear these people are new to firearms and this was way past their skill level.

            I know they are new shooters because no one walked normally and no one called ceasefire.

            Just saying.

          • QuadGMoto

            Its clear these people are new to firearms and this was way past their skill level.

            This appears to be a completely faulty assumption. VSO Gun Channel has said otherwise.

          • Mr Universe

            At least half of his statement was correct: this is way past their skill level.

          • QuadGMoto

            Based on…?

          • Mr Universe

            Video evidence.

          • QuadGMoto

            Well, there’s a completely detail free answer.

            You could have said, “Because” and saved a few keystrokes.

          • Mr Universe

            Only the most obtuse require more than what their own eyes tell them.

          • CommonSense23

            Yeah not even close to the same thing,

          • Tom Currie

            BTW, QuadGMoto, clearly you have never been in, around, or near, the military. There are no “live rounds whizzing past people’s heads” in any drills conducted by the US military or any competent military outside the former Warsaw Pact (note that the Warsaw Pact accepted and expected 10-20% casualties annually in live fire training exercises at the peak of the Cold War, although most of those casualties were injuries not fatalities and very few were GSW).

          • QuadGMoto

            A) I admit I have not been in the military.

            B) I do pay attention. Notice that when I described live fire exercises I discussed videos of current grenade training, and WWII live fire exercises.

            C) Live fire is still used in current U.S. Military training, I found an “Army Basic Training” video posted in 2013 by “GlendaleHeights ArmyRecruiting” which tells recruits what to expect in Basic Training. At 3:12, the narrator explains that, “You will go through a night infiltration course where machine guns will fire over your head and explosions will go off nearby.”

        • Brian

          I agree that their range needs to be cleaned.

        • CommonSense23

          It’s the fact that a dude is behind the firing line. Well beyond any safety factor a well trained unit would use.

          • QuadGMoto

            Why are you trying to beat me up by making the same point I made as part of the comment you’re replying to?

        • RSG

          Funny you mention that. Clint Smith at Thunder Ranch always talks about a frequent handicapped shooter he has take his classes. Always dumps them out of the chair. Everyone there gasps. But then says, that is a very likely position they’d find themselves in.

          • stephen

            Yea but he doesn’t have the guy shoot as he is being dumped from his chair with students down range.

            I imagine JY will adopt this into his ‘tactical training’.

            😉

      • BigR

        I detect a trace of irony in your voice!!!

    • CommonSense23

      No. Cause that training isn’t controlled. That would have had the whistle blown on it in a SOF range.

    • Chris

      Negatron. What is this drill trying to accomplish from the handicapped shooter’s perspective? Is he going to be pushed toward an attacker while shooting in a gunfight? If so, I would hate to be the guy pushing him for any number of reasons. Is he going to wheel himself toward the attacker himself, while accurately putting rounds on target? Don’t think so. How about just stationary drills for those in wheel chairs? Its realistic and much safer for everyone else.

      • stephen

        I agree that the drill is not good for anyone in a wheelchair. I can see having him shoot stationary, reload, then wheel away. However this is a recipe for disaster.

        One wrong bump while pushing could have ended up with a bullet in the back of someones head.

        Just saying

  • Joseph Goins

    I wonder where the downrange cameraman was,

    • BigR

      Behind the shooters in a concrete bunker!!

    • Rodney Jenkins

      LOL

  • If the gunsphere would stop giving Yeager press, links, and attention, he might just fade away. This guy is dangerous and the clock is ticking on someone getting killed in one of his classes. I don’t know why any club or facility would allow him onsite to conduct a class.

    • Swarf

      Snarling genitals like Yeager don’t fade, they flare out.

      He’s pure sodium looking for a pond.

    • Joseph Goins

      Impossible. He still has access to YouTube.

      • Richard

        YouTube jerked around hickok 45, its only a matter of time.

    • stephen

      What can you do? I just hope and pray that all gun ranges would boycott James Yeager for his continued stupidity but it hasn’t happened yet.

      One of these days he will get someone killed, I hope that never happens but then people might wake up.

    • Patrick R. – Senior Writer

      Why do you think I didn’t say his name?

  • guest

    All ROs who did not stop this nonsense should be permanently suspended and the gimp barred from any shooting sports. This is beyond reckless.

    • QuadGMoto

      “Gimp”? Seriously? He’s a human being with the same rights as you and i, especially the right to life. I applaud him for actually doing the work to improve his skills.

      If you watch the video, he was reluctant to shoot. He was pushed into it by the ROs. He clearly cares about safety and doing the right thing.

      In a comparison between him and you, I would be more willing to trust my life to his hands than yours.

      • guest

        “In a comparison between him and you, I would be more willing to trust my life to his hands than yours.”

        A handicapped guy who has no place riding his wheelchair on what looks like a rock-covered surface, doing what he does not understand, instructed and helped by idiots who have less of a clue about what they do than he does.
        By all means, I won’t even dare challenge you on this suggestion of yours, little snowflake.

        • QuadGMoto

          Doubling down on a**hole doesn’t impress me in the slightest.

          • guest

            I’m not your local working girl, so I’m not here to impress you or anyone else. Please stop confusing yourself.

          • QuadGMoto

            Belligerent jackwagon blocked.

    • Swarf

      The only thing the dude in the wheelchair did wrong was follow bad instructions.

      And screw you.

  • 40mmCattleDog
  • William

    The other shooters are clearly 15 degrees off the entire video. Youre the same type of person who doesnt attend classes and throws out the term “I won’t go there” like you’re even their type of customer.

    • CommonSense23

      What does having 15 degrees do with anything.

    • m-dasher

      thats funny….because 180 degrees is pretty much the universal standard for firearms safety….

      ive done this drill plenty of times, however it is only safe if everyone progresses forward at the same time, if you can see the back of anyone, you stop shooting, and if you cannot see anyone in your periphery, you slow down.

      common sense goes a long way in drills like these.

    • Patrick R. – Senior Writer

      Fun fact, I am exactly the kind of person that would attend a class by a trainer if I felt it was good value. Putting a life in danger is not good value. Well …. I guess it depends on whose life.

  • Big Daddy

    It’s a training fail. I am disabled although not in a wheelchair. You need special instruction and not with a normal class. I have worked out things for myself based on my specific issues. This is not the way to teach a person with those types of problems.

    • Dave Biggers

      I guess they should also segregate by sex, age, height…

      • Big Daddy

        It’s not segregation, what are you a liberal? It’s person specific training. I cannot do most of the things done in regular classes. I need to learn specific techniques for ME. Are you that closed minded, give everybody a trophy type of thinking. I CANNOT do it, I need special skill sets to do things differently. Man how old are you like 12? By height can you dunk a basketball? No why try to teach you to? Age can you understand at 15 what a man who has a family pays bills and has to work 50-60 hours a week goes through, no? Sex, can a woman lift a 300lbs man and carry him away from danger or even drag away him NO? Change your name to Dave Littles.

    • Jerry Nuss

      The student chose to participate. He was never forced to do anything. He was never excluded.

  • Swarf

    A little forethought, then 10 minutes and 2 sheets of CDX would have solved this problem.

    Tactical planning, yo.

  • karmicforce01
    • QuadGMoto

      Ewwwwwww…

      Mind bleach, please!

    • n0truscotsman

      I dont even know…

      I just wont ask questions.

  • Vizzini

    Did all those guys downrange volunteer to take a bullet in the back for training purposes? Stupid.

    • The_Automator

      Are you saying they weren’t free to leave? They were being held there against their will?

      • RocketScientist

        Well that’s a totally asinine reply. They’re at a training course. Presumably because they are much less experienced and knowledgeable than the supposedly “expert” instructors. If I take a skydiving course, and my instructor rigs my parachute wrong, putting me at severe risk of death… is that MY fault by your logic? After all, no-one FORCED me to jump out of that plane, right? I volunteered, right? These people paid good money and put their safety in the hands of instructors they assumed knew better than them. Even if they thought “well THIS seems unwise”, they may have likely gone ahead under the assumption that the instructors actually had some fugging clue what the hell they were doing. Turns out, they didn’t.

  • Mr Universe

    Then train with airsoft, dummy guns, or less-than-lethal rounds. There’s NO sane reason to train for “real-world” events with live ammunition.

    • Dave Biggers

      Really?
      I know for a fact the military does.
      Live fire bounding drills come to mind.
      What this comes down to is what YOU think is the appropriate level of training for certain individuals.
      Now we are just talking opinions.

      • Wolfgar

        Were the students in Seal Team Six, the SAS, Delta ??
        No they were innocent fools being trained by a bigger one who allowed a man in a jerking wheel chair fire live rounds a few feet away from their heads. I would reason the instructors in that video will be the most dangerous situation they will ever encounter.

      • Mr Universe

        The military uses fixed emplacements and the drills are for movement under fire. Completely different application and procedure.

        • Dave Biggers

          What? Bounding drills were done live fire in the 80’s.

          • Mr Universe

            It’s still not force-on-force, and it’s also no longer a practice. Which makes your comment irrelevant.

      • stephen

        And the military does in fact but ONLY after lots of dryfire walk throughs and crawl, walk, run scenarios. BTDT and what I saw on the JY/TR videos would have gotten the range shutdown.

        Just saying there is a difference between a 1-3 day class versus infantry that train throughout the year on this stuff.

        • Jerry Nuss

          I did a lot of live fire and bounding training in the military without a lot of walk through and crawl, walk, run build up. I was in during the same time as Biggers.

      • DataMatters

        None of these people are going to find themselves in combat conditions. The military trains with high stakes because lives are on the line.

        I worry that the recent huge influx of new gun owners has caused some unintended consequences of its own. I am no Fudd, but I came up in disciplined shooting sports, not this wild west bullshit.

        • Wolfgar

          Well stated, “Wild West Bullshit” was a perfect analogy. Jerry Nuss must be Dave Biggers friend and loyally keeps defending him but what was on that video was completely undefendable, reckless, irresponsible, and unnecessary.
          What really sticks in my craw is they not only exhibited complete incompetence on the video they also continue to defend the undefendedable and never own the mistake which could have ruined the lives of their students and instructor alike. Bad form all the way around.

          • Jerry Nuss

            Yes, Dave Biggers is a friend. I was there on the range that day too. The video angle is not an accurate representation. The 4 firearm safety rules were followed. If there was a problem, everyone there could have called a cease fire.

          • Wolfgar

            Were the students down range in front of the guy shooting next to their heads as he is being pushed- jerked toward the target? The answer is an obvious yes and the firearm safety rules were not being followed.

          • Jerry Nuss

            Which firearm safety rule was not being followed?

          • Wolfgar

            Gee Jerry I don’t know, maybe the one where you don’t fire down range at a target which people are standing a few feet from while a jackass pushes and jerks you forward and laterally as you cross “uneven ground covered in crap” screaming “you shoot, you shoot” hoping you pull the trigger while pointing at the target and not at the back of someones head as your shooting platform “wheel chair” zig’s and zag’s in directions you have zero ability to foresee or control. The poor guy in the wheel chair was trying not to sweep the other students and had to lower his hand to catch himself as he was thrown forward while being instructed,” you shoot, you shoot”. Whats next, shooting at a target held by two students while a shooter is riding a mechanical bull. You really are a moron if you have to ask me which firearm safety rule was not followed!

          • Jerry Nuss

            I think you are confusing Firearm Safety Rules with range rules. Because what you are writing is not a Firearm Safety Rule.

          • Wolfgar

            1) Treat every firearm as though it were loaded.
            Pointing a firearm down range loaded while people are standing next to the target while having zero control violates this rule.

            2) Always keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.
            Pointing a loaded fire arm down range while people are next to the target while having zero control over his shooting platform “wheel chair” violates this rule.

            3) Keep your finger outside the trigger guard until ready to shoot.
            His finger was inside the trigger guard the whole time while he was jerked back and forth trying not to sweep other students violates this rule.

            4) Be sure of your target both in front and back of it.
            With students standing next to the target and being jerked back and forth with zero control violates this rule.

            Your video was put on the Fire Arms Blog because it was a great example of what a bunch of dangerous, incompetent retards you are with everybody agreeing with dismay. I would recommend getting some serious mental help, preferably one with a padded room and high doses of psychotropic drugs since you have no ability to differentiate between fantasy and reality. You are certifiably nuts.

          • Jerry Nuss

            Are you angry? You seem to be upset since you are calling people retards and suggesting mental help.

          • Wolfgar

            People who endanger other peoples lives for no other reason than self delusional ego and profit does not anger, bud concerns me. Your cavalier attitude and defensive denial of incompetent and dangerous firearm instruction after being presented with fact after fact suggest a serious form of mental illness. Suggesting mental help was not an insult but a heart felt recommendation. Maybe some of your sane friends could give you an intervention.

          • Jerry Nuss

            I hate when liberals always express disingenuous concern because someone has a different opinion than them. All the of my friends must be insane because we train like this and don’t think much about it until someone starts trying to tell us how we are doing it wrong. My friends also drive on 2 lane roads with strangers driving toward us just a few feet away.

          • RocketScientist

            “All the of my friends must be insane because we train like this and don’t think much about it”

            Hey Jerry, you spelled “idiots” wrong.

          • Jerry Nuss

            Thank you Sir!

          • Jerry Nuss

            I hate when liberals always express disingenuous concern because someone has a different opinion than them. All the of my friends must be insane because we train like this and don’t think much about it until someone starts trying to tell us how we are doing it wrong. My friends also drive on 2 lane roads with strangers driving toward us just a few feet away.

          • Wolfgar

            Your reply makes as little sense as your unnecessarily dangerous firearm training drill. Like I said before, you need help.

          • Jerry Nuss

            OK, thank you for your concern and advice.

          • Wolfgar

            Your more than welcome!

        • Dave Biggers

          First of all, you don’t know who was in that class. Secondly, if you are justified in drawing your pistol, someones life will be on the line. Hence the term “deadly weapon”.

  • micmac80

    I say people taking these kind of classes deserve to get riped off.Almost getting shot should be charged double.or triple.

  • stephen

    The problem is that those students were no where near a level of proficiency that they should have anyone downrange.

    Just saying.

    • Rnasser Rnasser

      It is scary to think you go into a “training class” and half or more of the students are dangerous to themselves, each other and the trainers in this kind of scenario, and no one realizes/acknowledeges it or fails to apply any corrective action.
      I would run away…

      • Dave Biggers

        Probably for the best.

    • Dave Biggers

      And you were there to make that call?
      Blind men and elephants.

      • Wolfgar

        The more you talk the bigger fool you become!

      • stephen

        If I was there, you can bet it would be a lot safer for everyone involved.

        😉

    • Dave Biggers

      And that is your call based on what?
      Where you there?
      Had you been watching them do a variety of drills?
      Blind men and elephants.

    • Dave Biggers

      And you say that based on what? Were you there?

  • Mr Universe

    About that video…

    At 00:01 – “DO NOT ATTEMPT TO DUPLICATE ANYTHING YOU ARE ABOUT TO SEE. DOING SO MAY RESULT IN SERIOUS BODILY INJURY OR DEATH.”

    At 07:48 – “If you cannot stand where I’m standing right now, and not get ginked up about what’s going on, you have no business carrying a firearm. If you cannot stand where HE is standing right now, and do EXACTLY what he is doing right now, you have no business carrying a firearm. Because you are more of a danger to yourself and to others than you are a potential threat.”

    • stephen

      “DO NOT ATTEMPT TO DUPLICATE ANYTHING YOU ARE ABOUT TO SEE. DOING SO MAY RESULT IN SERIOUS BODILY INJURY OR DEATH.”

      Because its stupid.

      😉

  • stephen

    Anyone know if JY and or the TR crew was in Anderson, SC today?

  • stephen

    Its all fun and games till someone gets shot.

    • Joseph Goins

      Isn’t it always.

  • Patrick R. – Senior Writer

    So glad that they released a video that clearly outlines how foolish they are.

  • Patrick R. – Senior Writer

    Dear Diary,

    It is the end of 2016 and VSO is still acting a fool. Please don’t let Darwin find them yet.

    Love,
    Me

    • Joseph Goins

      “Acting a fool”? They are copying James Yeager, their Leader-In-Chief when he isn’t busy causing his fellow PMCs to die and shi†-talking everyone else in the industry who disagrees with him.

  • stephen

    I spent a career in the Army doing infantry grunt stuff, among other things. I am appalled at what is passed off as safe training. Here are a few things…

    At 2:22 the guy firing one handed and walking backwards looks to be falling backwards but then it cuts to the next scene (probably because he fell from all the crap on the range).

    At 4:13 instructor approves of the slide being in contact with clothing on two students. What was the point of that? To induce a malfunction?

    At the 4:43 student is straddling a threat and shooting threat in the ‘head’. This is THE worst advice you can give as they person on top is in a dominate position. If someone filmed this actually happening, the student would probably face prison time because he used excessive force.

    At 5:33 the wheelchair guy is clearly having trouble moving on the excessively dirty and un-kept range. This was a warning sign but no instructor caught it.

    At 6:10 we increase the risk of others getting shot by spinning students around and firing. Stupid because unless your at a party doing the spinning bat contest, it has no place in training.

    At 6:59 teaching stupid stuff like drawing your gun instead of dealing with someone holding you from behind first, then drawing.

    At 9:11 guy speaking says “if you can’t take criticism…”. Ironic because JY never take any type of constructive criticism.

    At 9:35 chocking out a guy and having him fire till he almost passes out. Instead of dealing with the immediate threat (i.e. the guy chocking him).

    At 10:00 more stupid spinning drills – Lord knows I spin around a lot at work, the park, church, etc. etc.

    At 11:53 students are not online – could be a problem in regards to safety. Where were the RSOs?

    For those that think JY & the TR crew are competent instructors, they clearly have no experience in real training.

    • Mr Universe

      The wheelchair guy at 05:33 is the same one as in the article, just a different angle.

      • stephen

        You’re absolutely right.

    • Phillip Cooper

      Oh it’s ok, at 12:03 the reviewer said “by the end of the course, we were all bros”

      That’s all I need to know the reviewer is a fanboy, and likely a deuche.

      • stephen

        We are all bros… does that mean they are all liberals?

        😉

      • lol

        The VSO channel is just more of the same tacticool douchebaggery as JY….

    • Al Wise

      14:13 and 14:30 are just ridiculous in regards tio safety.

    • Dave Biggers

      I was one of the instructors and you have no idea where I have trained. But by all means act like the MSM and just spout opinions.

      • stephen

        Who one trained with and the number years does not mean one is safe in what they do. It apparently it doesn’t matter where you trained or who with – because you guys are lax when it comes to safety.

        That says it all.

        😉

    • 12.7x99mmDaddy

      Shlt like that is exactly why i leave these ‘training’ classes to the mall ninjas and wanna-be warriors.

  • .45

    I’ve done similar drills in a class run by two police officers. Of course, we all lined up with pistols holstered and proceeded to draw and shoot one at a time with one of the officers right there watching us while the other made sure nobody still lined up got excited, but I guess that would take up too much time for a real tacticool class and the cool kids need some time downrange of other shooters.

  • A Fascist Corgi

    If you really want to put a stop to this type of thing, then you should be listing off tactical firearm instructors that offer the best training. Most people that think of firearm training courses immediately think of Yeager’s Tactical Response because they view courses like Front Sight to be boring and outdated. Tell people where they should be spending their money instead so that the best firearm trainers become more famous than Yeager. That will slowly kill his business.

    • Joseph Goins

      A good rule of thumb is to not train with people who [1] promote themselves and [2] are closed minded. Yeager is both.

  • JASON B

    I have seen many horrible things at shooting ranges. But rarely do I see instructors order a shooter to fire their weapon while many other people are 15 to 20 feet right in front of the shooter. Never mind the fact that the shooter is in a moving wheelchair that is bouncing in every possible direction at once.

    I have packed up many times at the shooting range because of what I see going on around me. But this is TRULY UNREAL! Had I been there, I would have gone berserk on the staff.

    Any organizations that have certified any of the instructors in this video, should immediately pull those certifications. Any other action that can be taken against the instructor and facility, should be taken.

    What a bunch of total jackasses. This kind of stuff really pisses me off and makes the shooting community look really stupid!

  • Jon

    A dirty range is a unsafe range.

  • Dave Biggers

    That is not Chester Volz. The “pusher” is me.

    • Tom Currie

      If that’s true, why would you admit it.

      • Dave Biggers

        Because I stand by my actions.

        • Wolfgar

          You stand by your action that is unsafe and teach insane shooting drills that put unaware students lives endanger because you have zero brains, common sense or enough intelligence to own a pop gun let alone teach a firearms class, Damn!

          • Dave Biggers

            And I use my full name.

          • Wolfgar

            Buddy if you wish to expose yourself and full name as one of the most incompetent fools I have ever seen, knock yourself out. There is no respectable firearm instructor that would endorse what I saw on that video. Firearm ranges are being shut down all over the country because of exorbitant insurance cost because of incompetent fools such as your self. You are an embarrassment to the shooting community.

          • Jerry Nuss

            Wow that was harsh. Biggers is actually very respected in training circles. He is a published author of several training articles and has taught a multiple federal, state, and municpal levels as well as for regular people off the street.

          • Wolfgar

            Well he lost any respect he had after defending that video. That was one of the most irresponsible training exercises I have ever seen. Any child of an age of reason could see the unnecessary dangerous situation he put his students in. These jack wagons haven’t even learned the basic firearm safety rules or just decided to completely ignore them.. With high insurance cost and every lib trying to take away our second amendment rights it doesn’t help when videos like this gives more ammunition to restrict firearms. Would an accidental death that was do to incompetence make it anymore irresponsible? If gun owners don’t police their our own kind then the powers that be will. I wasn’t harsh enough and they deserve zero respect!.

          • stephen

            Just because one is published or has taught at various places does not mean that person is a good instructor and or safe. The videos shows the real story.

            I unfortunately know some people in the military who are contractors now that work overseas with various military groups and despite their yeas of experience they are still tools and are alive because the grace of God.

            Just saying.

          • Jerry Nuss

            The video only gives one angle and is not enough to forensically disassemble what was going on.

        • stephen

          History is littered with people who were wrong that ‘stood by their actions’.

    • stephen

      Ok – you seriously need to rethink how you guys run your ranges. The RSOs are lacking in many areas as I pointed out. I don’t say this to be mean or vindictive – rather in the hopes you all take safety seriously (while still conducting dynamic and advanced training drills). Just because you doing advanced stuff does not mean safety has to suffer. If you don’t its only a matter of time someone gets hurt or killed.

      The fact that the range is littered with debris, which contributed to bumping of the wheelchair and the shots that were way off target should be a clue to all instructors and RSOs to clean your range/s (it should be part of your SOP). I would hate to see someone killed because debris on the range contributed to the death of a student.

      • Dave Biggers

        I guess your gunfight is going to take place on a manicured lawn.

        • “I guess your gunfight is going to take place on a manicured lawn.”

          If your student dies on the range, they will not have to worry about the lawn, manicured or otherwise. There are other, safer ways to teach maneuver and balance. My fencing instructor at college took us out in the middle of the pond on black ice. That did wonders for teaching tight footwork and economical parries. But, we were also not using live steel, let alone live firearms while doing it.

          If you want to teach a student to aim while navigating obstacles and uncertain terrain, *fine and commendable*, but do it with air soft, simunitions, lasers, etc., and in situations where you can otherwise control collateral damage.

        • stephen

          Yes Dave, lets talk about reality.

          If you look at the police and FBI stats on shootings, the majority happen on paved roads, city streets and parking lots; the minority happen on dirt roads, some happen in businesses, stores, public and or private buildings, none of which are filled with amount of debris that is found on your ranges.

          Or are you saying all future gunfights will take place on your trashed out ranges?

          Hmmm… At any rate you have failed to replicate what civies will most likely encounter here in America. Talking about civilians…

          Lets look at the reality of armed self defense shootings with civilians. There are numerous NRA accounts of civilians involved in self defense shootings, the majority of those happen in the home, of which I imagine some are unkept but not as littered as your range/s. Some happen in work places, which have a certain level of cleanliness. Others happen in parking lots and other public areas which are generally clean and pristine compared to the fields of trash you can ‘ranges’.

          Dave, its obvious that you have drank the JY koolaid and are passing it on to the naive and unknowing (which is a disservice to everyone). Case in point…

          In the video one ‘instructor’ checks the placement of two students pistols where the frame and slide are in contact with clothing and body. This is the exact thing that is taught what NOT to do as it can induce a malfunctions in an up close and personal, lethal force engagement. Yet the ‘instructor’ passed it off as being acceptable. Fact is this shows that the ‘instructor’ was just going through the motions and not paying attention to what can happen in reality. That lack of attention is seen in many of the JY class videos – and its THE main reason I do not suggest anyone attend a TR class.

          Why?

          Because complacency spreads like the plague and in the videos I have seen and accounts of students that attended TR, I only see an accident waiting to happen (it already happened but thankfully only a truck tire was shot out and no one was hurt or killed). I would have thought that incident would you all ‘wake up’ and focus on safety but apparently that is not the case.

          As instructors we should be teaching safety, how to manipulate a firearm, and what actions one can take for the majority of situations they might face; actions that protect them and their loved ones while keeping others safe; its not about teaching students to navigate on your littered range, passing that off as what they will face in reality (IMO it just shows the apathetic attitude and complacency of the instructors, it shows a lack of pride and professionalism).

          Our job is not about teaching students to straddle a ‘threat’ in full mount, then shooting them in the head multiple times, filling their minds with fantasies on par with Walter Mitty. BTW that is asinine, reckless and the worst technique I have ever seen – I pray none of your students actually does this – the legal ramifications could be devastating.

          I’m not saying you cannot teach high risk techniques/drills but with increased risk, there should be increase safety measures – of which JY and the TR crew are lacking. The lack of safety and attention to detail is appalling – its an accident waiting to happen (this comes from an old infantry grunt who still teaches today).

          Of course I know you will not ‘wake up’ and take the high road, but that is on you. I know what I do and teach is based in reality and its safe for me, my students and the people around them.

          Please, take a critical look at what you are doing and take the steps to improve.

          • Dave Biggers

            I do not worry about uneven ground.
            The FBI stats are based on LE shootings.
            The safest thing would be to sit and home and drink beer while commenting on videos.
            Guns are not safe, ammo is not safe and people are not safe.
            My guns are loaded, all the time. My ammo is fresh, all the time.
            I am dangerous.

          • stephen

            Hmmm… Guns and ammo are safe until a person uses them (to whatever end, be it good or bad).

            With that said, I think we can close out our discussion – reason why? Because stupid people are dangerous.

            Godspeed to you and yours.

          • neosteeled001 .

            OK. I’ve watched the video and I’ve read the discourse that resulted from the activities you’re defending. While I do shoot competitively on occasion and I train for my security work, I’m not a gun fighter, or a specop guy. I do know when something is dangerous, and that “training” that you’re defending is dangerous. We’re all big boys and girls here, and while we all understand that the use of firearms in both recreation and in real life self defense training is inherently dangerous, the risks we take are calculated and all steps to promote safety are taken by every trainer I’ve ever trained with. That you are defending this video is understandable given that this is your livelihood, but HAD someone been shot in that class, I suspect you would be very silent on advice from your lawyer. I do agree with you on one point. You are dangerous.

          • Dave Biggers

            I’m so glad that you saw the video and can tell exactly what happened.

        • DataMatters

          That’s not the point–the issue is that they never clean up the damn range! Then you have a bunch of people of mixed skill level moving and shooting and it’s a recipe for disaster.

  • MikeSmith13807

    Without getting into the question of whether this was a good idea or not, I just want to point out that I don’t think the “close call” errant shots were as close as they appear from the video. Look at the angles–the camera is to the left of the shooter, the shooter is a good distance in front of the camera and pretty close to the guy on the left, etc. That bullet could have been at least 10 feet from him when it passed him. Notice that he didn’t even react–if it was close enough for him to hear the “whiz” I think he would have reacted more.

    • CommonSense23

      Its not the fact that the bullet is so close. It’s their lanes of fire. I have been a RSO in the military for IADs. You don’t let people take shots from behind without sufficient offset. They don’t have it here.

      • MikeSmith13807

        That may be true, but my point is that everybody’s perception of what happened, which leads to the ensuing outrage, is probably not accurate. The casual viewer sees a bullet strike right next to the shoulder of another student. I bet if we saw an overhead diagram you’d see that the path of the bullet was a good distance from the student, which would explain why the student in the wheelchair, the instructor pushing him, and the student to the left all didn’t seem to have any problem with what was happening. From their perspective the lanes of fire were adequately safe.

        Of course, you can disagree with their definition of “safe”, but that’s a different conversation.

        • CommonSense23

          It’s not that I don’t disagree. Its the fact the SOCOM disagrees. Their are standards for when highly trained troops are allowed to fire. These guys are breaking them. Cause these standards are designed to prevent friendly fire from when someone screws up and people screw up. Cause that happens to the best.
          I have had formal schooling to become a RSO. Everything they are doing is wrong. And I’m a guy who is used to seeing flagging with no issue.

          • stephen

            Exactly CS23.

    • stephen

      It only takes one weird bump and the bullet could have ended up the back of someone’s head. The range is full of debris and lazy/inept RSOs/instructors.

    • Jerry Nuss

      Exactly.

  • Ibis

    Running the range this way is so stupid and dangerous. I would never attend a class like this.

  • Joseph Goins

    Hey hey hey!!! They wear multicam in the ditches — I mean “trenches” — they hide in!

  • Tom Currie

    Maybe I missed it among all the comments about this idiocy and other idiocy at the same “training” facility, but one major issue that I don’t think anyone mentioned in the original video (and at the same scene of the other video) is when ALL the ROs walk over to the one guy in the wheelchair while the rest of the class continues shooting with no one supervising them (at least not closely enough to be safe in any sort of moving/shooting drill).

    Completely aside from conducting the drill in an unsafe manner (in multiple ways) I also have to question the purpose of the drill in the original video. I know that pretty much the same drill is taught at some other schools as well – so perhaps someone here can tell me, exactly what is the tactical purpose of teaching civilian shooters to advance toward a stationary target while firing at it. PLEASE, someone, give me any believable or even plausible scenario where this would make sense for anyone, especially a civilian. Backing up I understand, moving to cover I understand, but just walking forward normally in the open firing repeatedly at a stationary target?? I don’t get it.

    • Patrick R. – Senior Writer

      Because it looks good on video.

    • n0truscotsman

      I dont get it either.

      The role of a concealed carrier is not to ‘assault’ anything. Its to retreat and/or move to cover/fight to a long gun.

      And bad guys dont remain standing there, absorbing bullets, waiting for you to nonchalantly shuffle your way forward. You definitely aren’t going to do it if you are confined to a wheelchair.

      • TW

        I disagree. As a CCW carrier, I would move forward to the target in certain citations to allow others to escape into safety.
        I would have to blame that on my training as I’m in the process of becoming a LE. So that’s how I’ve been trained. You put others lives above your own in certain situations.

    • stephen

      I brought up the same point Tom. JY and TR are an accident waiting to happen. If they don’t change their ways, someone will get killed.

      As for why one would advance and shoot at a threat/s? In the case of a terrorist attack. I know in Israel they teach this technique so that the terrorist becomes occupied with you instead of the surrounding innocent people. I also work security at our church and we have adopted the same response – mainly because in our church there is not a lot of cover or concealment in our main sanctuary. So in light of that we take an aggressive response to active shooters (granted this is a last resort and they get passed our front security.

      Something to think about.

  • Tassiebush

    Seems like the probability of harm in this training far exceeds the probability of injury from an actual attack to any of the participants. The intervention of the ro pushing the guy pretty much negated any realism too unless he lives with a Quaker who he needs to protect.

  • Joe Schmo

    Wheelchair or not, everyone has to keep up with the line. Instructors should be behind students making sure everyone is moving. If someone is that far back, they should not have a gun in their hand. It’s not rocket science, but for Tactical Response it is probably close to rocket science.

  • n0truscotsman

    Woah, how did I miss this!?

  • Joel Thompson

    The video of the lead instructor justifying this saying that, “well, in the real world, there will be people down range near your target, so its important to train for a real world scenario.”  

    Please tell me, at what point is a man in a wheel chair going to advance and and fire his side arm simultaneously in the real world? Both actions require the use of his hands. If he splits up the use of his hands, he’s dividing his muscle coordination and is doing neither effectively.

    In addition, the man can’t get any forward motion on that littered range. If that range is supposed to be “well, in the real world…” then if faced with a similarly rough terrain in the real world, the answer is for the handicapped man to remain stationary, and focus his full attention toward eliminating the threat as quickly as possible. Not sacrifcing aim for ineffective/inefficient mobility.

    Furthermore,  having someone push you from behind, while you are not in control of your own forward motion may cause sudden jerking that the shooter can’t compensate for as he’s using the trigger, and that’s exactly what appears to happen. That compromises his ability to follow the laws.

    • QuadGMoto

      I agree. In fact, I made the same point yesterday in reply to Swarf.

    • Dave Biggers

      I’ve been to LE classes where the instructor drove the student around while holding them by their belt and color.

    • Dave Biggers

      He often travels with his brother who does not carry.

    • ” the answer is for the handicapped man to remain stationary, ”

      Or toss himself out of the whellchair and fight prone. Depending on the reason for the wheelchair, he may be able to roll more effectively to maneuver than he can roll.

      • Dave Biggers

        Wouldn’t it be nice if he had the option of doing either?

        • “Wouldn’t it be nice if he had the option of doing either?”

          Not the way you are teaching it, no. A a gun owner who works with law enforcement and is intermittently stuck in a wheelchair, I consider your lack of range safety reckless, and I would immediately dismiss any instructor or range master for trying it.

  • mark

    I’ve been in classes and on ranges where you just know the guy next to you is dangerous. I’ve left one class before and at the gun club i’ll move to a different range until they are done, rifle/pistol. How did the guys next to this dude not have their spidey sense go off? I would have been a nervous wreck to force myself to keep standing in front of this guy as he popped off shots over my left or right shoulder. Good Looord just watching this video makes my skin crawl. Where is the instinct for self preservation from the other students?

  • Mr Universe

    Whoa!

  • guest

    Are you seriously comparing enlisted specops / high-level bodyguards training, the training that deliberately involves crossing some psychological barriers that pretty much need to be crossed anyway for that kind of job, with some civilian “rambo course”?
    This is like comparing model trains with real ones. Same same, but very different.

  • stephen

    The sad thing is JY used to be a good guy – I saw early videos of him before he got on TV and got all swolled up with ego and pride.

    Oh well.

  • 22winmag

    RED = Range Endangering Officers

    My club has 600 acres and 2,000 members… and none of these clowns.

  • TGugs

    Wow..have the “professional instructors” clean up that trash pile..I mean range. what a dump. Or better yet make the students p/u. Amateurish.

  • Wolfgar

    Damn, all I can say is Damn…..Where do these boobs come from,,,,Damn!

  • Wearing body armor to the range has the added benefit of training you to think, move, and shoot in armor, which experience few enough people get when not actually being shot at. Armor is hot, stiff, and uncomfortable(*); it is natural to want to avoid working in it, but much better to do it religiously.

    (*) A darn sight better than what we wore on the field in medieval reenactment mass combat, however. After working in tens of pounds of leather and steal in the hot sun, one really appreciates a decent modern vest! One of our deputies, I think, got the idea when he saw me in full kit at a reenactment demo a few years back…

  • Rich

    I guess we won’t truly be “ready for the fight” unless we’ve been exposed to a multi day course of muzzle roulette?? Got it.

  • Baggy270

    Good golly gosh darn….I’m sorry but this is just plain stupid and completely dangerous. I was in law enforcement for 35 years and I’ve never seen anything this stupid. I’m sorry but the way Bubba is speaking and acting no wonder those of us in the Great White North think that many of the people who carry guns south of the border should never be allowed near them! I own 49 firearms myself so we are allowed guns up here including AR’s and hand guns. I also compete in IPSC and just shudder when I see this!!! Stupid is as stupid does…..duh yup. Biggars you are dangerous and shouldn’t be allowed around firearms….or cars…or knives…or pointed sticks.

  • DataMatters

    That may well be, but that exercise is not that. If you want to run that drill send each person downrange one at a time. The instructors had very little control over that situation and then they start pushing wheelchair man who can’t aim well who is 5-10 yards behind everyone else! Stupid.

  • Skyviking

    WTF?? This is indefensible. That AND the student who did the tactical pirouette with his pistola’s muzzle up in the air in the classic Charlie’s Angels Ready Position…

  • B. Young

    First, I compliment the shooter for not shooting anybody. Second, never seen a professional shooting range with that much garbage on the ground, get a rake. They have created a true liability situation had someone been shot. Obviously their liability insurance never actually inspected the range-IF they had any liability insurance.

  • Rodney Jenkins

    not surprised it’s Yeager & friends… SMH

  • Skyviking

    Absolutely unbelieveable. I would have packed my gear, demanded/gotten a refund, and left. Training at Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, The Rogers School, or with Randy Cain, Mike Gonzalez, Larry Vickers, Southnarc, or the late Pat Rogers or Todd Louis Green gives one a baseline for No B.S. Training Courses. These guys are a blight on the industry. Obviously, even ensuring the range was policed (or using a rake to clean up the range) before the class started was beyond their capabilities-and an indicator of the caliber of instruction in the offing.

  • Miles Huggins

    Yea its james yager at tactical response its got to be about a year old at least though cause dave biggers isnt there anymore