UPDATE: Video Proof That Accidental Discharges ARE Real

If you have been shooting long enough, chances are that you have become careless and had a negligent discharge or know someone who has. If you talk to self-righteous gun people about it, they will tell you there is no such thing as an “accedental” discharge, but that each one of these incidents are flat out negligent.

Well, the truth is that there are accidental discharges. Mechanical failures happen, aftermarket parts might be installed improperly or have tolerance issues, or you could even have a case where weather conditions or a small burr in the wrong place.

Now honest accidental discharges are rather rare and I have experienced one myself while shooting a 70 year old Type 14 Nambu that had a broken firing pin. Thankfully I was left unhurt as was the shooter in the below video.

While prepping for a match, the shooter slides a magazine into his handgun and chambers a round. It appears that the CZ let the hammer drop as the slide went into battery, launching a round into the ceiling backstop. The description of the video does go into some detail:

Also, consider all of the things that he did INCORRECTLY prior to the incident:
1. He installed an aftermarket hammer and sear that were labeled “gunsmith installation only”.
2. He disabled the firing pin block safety on his firearm for a shorter reset.
In his defense, this handgun had been tested and run weekly at ranges for roughly 1,000 rounds before the sear engagement failed and caused the accidental discharge.

UPDATE: We have received an email from the RO that was there. You can read Ian’s email below.

I saw your write up on the TFB about the “How to accidentally discharge your pistol properly” video. I’m the RO in that video.

First, thanks for the write up! I hope we can all learn from what happened.

Second, in the article you mentioned that the round hit the ceiling of the indoor range. The angle of the camera might make the gun look like it was being pointed upward, but I can assure you that the round hit squarely in the backstop and no damage was done to any property. While people can interpret the video any way they like, I want to make sure that they know that this was a text book example of how to follow gun handling rules even when you are not expecting the gun to go off.

So, if you feel compelled to revise the article to reflect this info, that’d be cool. If you’re busy or don’t get to this in a timely manner, that’s okay too. I may add some additional details in the video description.

Thanks, man!

Patrick R

Patrick is a Senior Writer for The Firearm Blog and TFBTV Host. He likes guns and has liked shooting guns for as long as he can remember. You can follow Patrick on Instagram @tfbpatrick, Facebook, or contact him by email at TFBpatrick@gmail.com.

The above post is my opinion and does not reflect the views of any company or organization.


  • Space Captain

    Finger on the trigger I don’t care what that other fellow said…

    • rjackparis

      you didn’t read, or watch did you?

      or really, even look at the picture.

      • rjackparis

        you can even see his finger on the trigger guard when he rolls the handgun to load.

        • DannyBoyJr

          Here’s a pro tip: click on the gear icon on the video, set it at 1080p, then set the speed at 0.25, then click the full screen icon on the far right bottom. Then watch the loading and accidental discharge from 0:11 to 0:13 seconds into the video.

          You will see that the trigger finger is lying straight on the gun frame, not in the trigger guard. Don’t take my word for it. Just do the pro tip I posted above.

          Edited to add: Whoops, I was supposed to respond to Space Captain. Sorry.

    • DIR911911 .

      hello , troll

      • Space Captain

        Hello sad little person

        • Cymond

          Says the guy who edited his comment to hide his own ignorance and laziness.

    • Patrick R. – Senior Writer

      Drinking before noon again?

      • billyoblivion

        It’s ALWAYS before noon somewhere.

      • Space Captain

        I have the right to express an opinion. Bite me! It’s OK to ban me if you like!

    • rjackparis

      if anyone’s wondering.

      Space captain originally posted ” don’t care what they say he had his finger on the trigger” or something to that effect. then edited it after we called out his bullshit.

  • guest

    The last part of the article explains it all.

    Do stuff that you don’t really understand how to do – Sir Charles Darwin will pay you a visit. He won’t even knock, he’ll fkin kick the door down and do a SWAT-entry.

    • ExMachina1

      It’s true that DIY gunsmithing is risky, but having 1000 problem-free rounds makes it really hard to conclude that he did a bad job. I’ve had guns come back from fully credentialed smiths that did not work properly.

      (and Darwin was never knighted)

      • TheNotoriousIUD

        It was 1000 + rds according to him. Theres no proof of that.
        I dont think its acceptable to go dicking around with safety features just so you can make a cool YouTube video. This mall ninja crap has to draw the line somewhere.

        • ILicence

          As the RO from that video (who also posted the video), I have personally witnessed well over 1,000 rounds being shot through that gun. For over the last year he has attended our weekly matches that usually run 50-75 rounds per match; that puts him way over 2,000 rounds that I have personally watched being shot (intentionally) down range with no failures of any kind. Keep in mind that this does not include his own personal practice.
          I used “1,000 rounds” as an overly conservative estimate because I’m not him and I refuse to exaggerate numbers.
          Also, I can assure you that none of this was staged for a “cool YouTube” video. We filmed every single one of our shooters shooting that very stage and we got lucky and got the AD on film.

          Take the video for what it is: A great example of how any gun can fail at any time and that consistency in safe gun handling pays off.

          • TheNotoriousIUD

            Thats all fine and im glad nobody was shot but his gun still failed because he disabled a safety. To me this is an avoidable incident.

          • ILicence

            “Thats all fine and im glad nobody was shot but his gun still failed
            because he disabled a safety. To me this is an avoidable incident.”

            I (and the shooter) totally agree with you! For what it’s worth, the shooter has taken 100% responsibility for the incident and the gun has had parts replaced, been inspected, and is back in service.

            We believe (but may be wrong) that the failure was caused by some gratuitous polishing of surfaces and possibly running the trigger with too little over-travel (which can prematurely wear the sear engagement surfaces), plus the obvious FPB being disabled.

            Also, if it helps people sleep at night, this gun is strictly used as a closed course only gun. It has never been loaded with duty ammo and carried or placed on a night stand for that bump in the night. The shooter has several unmodified guns for that purpose.

          • TheNotoriousIUD

            Hey, as long as you guys know what youre dealing with.
            I mean weve all worked on our guns and people sometimes make mistakes.

          • John Smith

            What kind of a match was this? Range commands sound like IDPA, but IDPA rules are not followed (air gunning, disabled safety).

          • ILicence

            Good eye! I guess you could call it an “outlaw match”. We blend a lot of IDPA and USPSA elements so that it’s very accessible to new shooters. It’s really good time and no one takes the competition portion of things too seriously.

          • John Smith

            Thanks. May I use your video (as long as it’s available on YT) for teaching Practical and SRA (type of 3Gun for army reserves) basic courses? Regardless of why the pistol went off, it’s a good example of how to safely load a pistol and how to handle a match DQ for a slamfire.

            I’ve seen quite a few of those over the years due to broken firing pins, too soft primers (for ARs) and yes, for too worn sear and hammer surfaces too, but not captured any on video from a good angle such as this.

          • ILicence

            You are welcome to use it for educational purposes.

            I know, it’s easy to get wrapped up in the “why” of it all, but what matters most is how the shooter handled the situation.

          • valorius

            What is this, 1865? Firing pin safeties are a CRITICAL piece of safety equipment on any modern firearm, and we all just saw why.

          • ILicence

            For the record, I am a BIG fan of firing pin safeties.

            A brief history lesson: CZ 75s did not have firing pin blocks until the early 1990s.

            Like what is shown in the video, CZ SP-01s are currently being produced and sold in configurations that do not include a firing pin block. This is a factory option. They are pretty common in the competition scene.

          • valorius

            A very, very foolish factory option.

          • ZQuel

            FPB is mainly for when the gun is dropped.

            The specific guns made for competition are usually specific to IPSC/USPSA type shooting, where dropping the gun means disqualification from the entire match.

            Because of this, dropped guns are not a thing (unless someone has really messed up). Getting kicked out of the match is a significant enough punishment that people avoid letting it happen.

            Added trigger pull weight/reset distance for.. safety that doesn’t come into play for competitors? It may be foolish in your opinion, but apparently not in the opinion of the competitors consulted by CZ, and who asked CZ to make guns without FPBs.

          • valorius

            Are IPSC and USPSA matches run on the moon? If there’s gravity, there’s a need for a firing pin safety.

          • ZQuel

            They aren’t. Could you clarify on the gravity thing, I think I’m missing something? Also, if you’re talking about the need for a firing pin safety in general (carry guns maybe as an example?) then yeah, I can agree with that.

            Don’t see them as having a use in competitions though since there’s already a bunch of rules to make sure we don’t have our fingers on the trigger when not aiming at targets/shooting, and stuff like dropped guns, holstering guns without safeties on gets you kicked out of a match.

          • valorius

            If you drop a pistol in zero gravity it will just float. 😉

          • valorius

            BTW, i see gun forum commandos on various sites all the time who chirp how they removed or disabled various safety devices. I do not approve.

          • Ulf

            If you haven’t been told already – as the RO you handled that situation extremely well. (Nice shirt too)

          • Mr Universe

            You may have witnessed those rounds, but you didn’t witness the modification, did you? For all you know, he tinkered with it that very morning.

      • guest

        Your argument is just as meaningless and as pleb as people who claim they rode their motorcycle without a helmet for so and so many miles/years, and never needed one anyway, and the “proof” of that is that their grey matter is still inside their skulls. “still” is the keyword here.

        Also besides Darwin, ones who will be paying even closer attention are insurance lawyers who will deny and and all coverage if the user – who is not qualified – makes mods to his gun, and if by chance there’s someone else that gets hurt in the process then the DA will have a field day and will have no problem putting murder 2 charges on the guy.

        Me personally I prefer when Darwin candidates remove themselves from circulation without any harm to anyone else, but for some odd reason they just LOVE involving others in their experiments.

      • Edeco

        Eh, I don’t actually use statistics anymore, just go on raw intuition like an animal, but 1,000 doesn’t seem like enough to tell me we’re stable.

        • ExMachina1

          Meh. Parts wear out and things don’t always go according to plan. Nothing is ever stable.

          • ILicence

            Guns are in a continual state of entropy.
            It’s only a matter of time before something falls out of spec and causes a malfunction. Only shooters who don’t shoot enough to hit high round counts think that a functional gun is always good to go.

          • Edeco

            How edgy.

    • Sam

      lol. Charles Darwin’s grandson will pay you a visit? but why?!

      • Swarf

        He fixes the TV?

  • Edeco

    Philosophically I consider it possible for an unintentional to be accidental, not negligent. If one is at a range and pointing the right way for instance.

    It’s mostly a semmantic thing. I mean, say I’m trying to get my breathing right, take up slack, etc, and let one off sooner than planned, but still on paper. Unintentional, maybe waste of a $0.94 cartridge, but not negligent. Someone gets hurt tho, I think it has to be negligent.

    • Jacob

      Not really. You can still have negligence with no one getting hurt. Like failing to clear your weapon before cleaning and sending that round into the ceiling or floor. Or you’re on the line and have the gun pointed down range, but you’re looking back and talking or to the person next to you and the gun “just goes off.”, or you pick it up and it goes off because you put your finger on the trigger and reflexively pulled it.
      In your example, for all intents and purposes you were on the line shooting. You might have squeezed too soon, or didn’t hold your breath or whatever, and sure that was unintentional. When a gun goes off, many like to claim accidental. True accidental discharges are rare though in my opinion. Most are negligence, as I described above. Failing to clear, putting your finger on the trigger when not ready to shoot, etc…

    • I would say if you were on target, intending to shoot, but go a little early that is nothing more than perhaps a non-ideal shot placement.

      When pushing my limits to get a shot off for time (inducing stress) I’m drawing, punching out, and in the process of aligning sights and releasing tension. When a shot goes a little before I had intended that is not an AD or ND. I was on target, intending to shoot, but my shot placement was slightly off because I squeezed one off just a little early. That is training. Just fine-tuning the skills necessary in making quick draws and shots on target under tight time restrictions. This case though involved loading, and not an intention to shoot.

      • Edeco

        In my case I don’t intend to shoot too early.

        • Understood, and nobody should, but if we’re training to hone skills … a little early shouldn’t be in the category of AD/ND. This of course, is only true when on target – not shooting into the ground or just out of the holster, etc.

          • Edeco

            OK, gotcha. I mean, if it were up to me I’d place all of the stigma on the term ND, and use it for any unintentional with negligence, certainly including any with injury. If unintentional without negligence, like me sending one too early, I don’t mind it being called accidental, although I know that word catches stigma from people using it to BS about ND’s.

            I want to reject the stigma on the term AD, rehabilitate the meaning of that word. I think it’s important because there’s this anti-gun idea that guns are inherently risky – it’s important to be clear that a mere accident, an ill-timed sneeze or bone-rattling fart, won’t get anyone shot, there has to be negligence.

  • BattleshipGrey

    Hence the Four Rules of gun handling, which thankfully, the shooter followed.

    He disabled the firing pin block safety on his firearm for a shorter reset. This one had me shaking my head though. He found the line between efficiency and safety.

    • Drew Coleman

      That’s one safety mechanism I’ll never tinker with, if a firearm has it equipped from the factory. I’ll take the slightly altered trigger pull for a significant increase in safety.

  • ExMachina1

    Everyone who suspects that this sort of thing is fully attributable to the fact that the guy worked on his own guns consider that he also had 1000 problem-free rounds. That’s more rounds than most CCW holders ever shoot….ever. More importantly, a discharge like this could have also resulted from basic part fatigue and/or wear, all in the total absence of DIY tinkering. Point is, don’t be tempted to conclude that just because you don’t work on your own guns that your firearms are immune to ADs. They’re not and the best thing we can do is observe safe gun handling (as did the shooter in the video)

    • Guest

      This is fully attributable to his DIY gunsmithing. The firing pin block would have prevented the gun from discharging when the hammer dropped had it been in place.

      It’s fortunate that no one was hurt as this could have been a poster child for ‘never disable a safety device’ just as easily as ‘good gun handling skills prevent bad stuff’ with an AD.

      • ExMachina1

        You missed the point. The wrong take away from the video is to simply say “oh, if he hadn’t done X, then this never would have happened”. The correct take away is that–by following simple rules of muzzle awareness–mechanical malfunctions (user induced or otherwise) need not be catastrophic.

        • Tom Currie

          ExMachina1 and Guest are BOTH right.

          AN accidental discharge COULD have happened on some other gun in some other way.

          This NEGLIGENT discharge occurred due to a combination of a mechanical failure (PROBABLY attributable to improper DIY gunsmithing) _TOGETHER_WITH_ the DIY modification of the gun that disabled a safety feature. [That last factor is what moves this from AD to ND]

          The one redeeming feature of this whole incident is that, yes, the shooter was HANDLING the gun properly (despite his incompetent DIY gunsmithing and ill-advised modification)

          The excuse that the gun had fired 1000 rounds before this particular failure is not an excuse for a failure that was only capable of happening because of the ill-advised modification.

          • John Smith

            It seems to me your argument is that any non-professional modification to a pistol is negligence, which would mean that only some how accredited and licensed professionals would be allowed to work on guns. Fortunately that is not a popular view to have.

            As many others have pointed out, this particular pistol model is made by the OFM without the FPB using the same firing pin and spring as the one with the FPB. Modifying it with the removal of the FPB spring, cutting the FPB spring, installing a lighter FPB and/or FPB spring or removal of the entire FPB and spring are all common modifications for many competition uses and are rules compliant, so not negligent.

            Reducing the sear and hammer engagement surfaces and reprofiling the angles is also a common modification, even more common than the FPB removal for pistols with a FPB. Again, for most competition uses these mods are rules compliant, so not negligent. I’m not aware of any competition rule anywhere that requires a professional gunsmith to do modifications. There are some rules that only allow some mods if done as factory customs or factory options available for anyone to order a gun with. Those are clearly not applicable here.

            To prove negligence in someone modifying their own gun, you need to show the normative source of the due care requirement that had been violated. The 1000 rounds of problem free operation is important in the sense that a safety and function check with the pistol was done post modification and before this AD happening. When you are doing a “Dremel trigger job”, you need to first check function in the jig, then with the assembled frame, then with the whole assembled pistol, in dry fire and with manual racking of the slide. Only then you can proceed to test fire. 1000 rounds down the pipe all that is past and what you have then is normal wear, which might be accelerated if you used surface hardened parts and took too much off.

            I’m not at all convinced that a trigger job failing several thousand rounds (if you read the other comments from the RO, it appears the 1000 is a very conservative estimate) later is so incompetent as to be called negligent.

          • Tom Currie

            It seems to me that you didn’t READ my post.

            You are focusing entirely on his incompetent or at best marginal amateur trigger job. THAT isn’t what made the discharge negligent. Go back and read my comment, the fact that he chose to disable the firing pin safety is what made the discharge negligent. The choice to disable any safety device is negligent – and the negligence becomes obvious when the disabling of that specific safety device leads to exactly the kind of unintentional discharge the device was there to prevent!

          • Jeremy Nettles

            If the rules of the competition allowed you to aim a loaded gun at a fellow competitor’s head and finger the trigger, would that mean blowing one’s head off unintentionally was an accident and not negligence?

            I’m not saying you’re 100% wrong, but you need look elsewhere to prove this wasn’t negligence. The rules for a competition aren’t exactly a mandate from God.

          • John Smith

            Negligence is a legal term and more importantly a claim. The one who makes any claim has the burden of proof. Citing the rules is a way to pre-emptively convince a reader that the burden of proof is not met. To prove negligence you need to find and present the duty of care and how it was broken. Many writers here fail to comprehend that and seem to think that something can be legitimely labelled as negligent just because they feel so.

          • Jeremy Nettles

            Negligence is not exclusively a legal term. Pretending it is does nothing for your argument. No one’s trying to sue the guy, as far as I can tell.

          • scaatylobo

            FULLY AGREE !!
            Tom Currie got it correct.

        • n0truscotsman

          You’re absolutely correct, which is why the 4 rules always apply. If your gun has a mechanical malfunction, the worst case scenario occurs without somebody being wounded or killed.

      • DrewN

        This is a very,very common modification with B series CZ’s. You are essentially converting them back to pre-B spec, using a combination of factory and (I assume CZ Custom) very highly regarded and very extensively tested aftermarket parts. This wasn’t something dude thought up in his garage. I have a 75 SA modded in exactly the same way and it’s run perfectly for 10K rounds.

        • valorius

          removing factory installed safety devices is foolhardy, at best. They put it in there for a reason.

          • Bill

            That’s true up to a point. Sometimes that reason has more to do with committees and politics than safety. Witness the extra hole on newer S&Ws.

          • valorius

            I’m not familiar with the extra hole to which you refer, so i cannot comment intelligently on the matter.

          • Bill

            It’s the keyhole for the revolver (!) safety, also known as the Hillary hole. If ever there was an answer to a question no one was asking, this would have to be it.

          • valorius

            Like the one on taurus revolvers, that locks the action?

          • Bill

            Like that.

        • Tom Currie

          If you want a gun without a firing pin block, buy a gun without a firing pin block.

          Disabling ANY safety device on any firearm is quite simply a stupid thing to do. Even if your modification never produces an ND that you try to call AD, there is simply too much chance that SOMETHING will make that modification come back to haunt you. God help you if you ever use such a gun in a defensive shooting.

      • Dr. Longfellow Buchenrad

        You know if he would have never bought the gun it wouldnt have happened either. I dont think its right for people to buy guns anymore.

        • Ryan the Red

          They should only rent or lease them?

          • Cymond

            Obviously, we shouldn’t have them at all, because there will be gun accidents as long as we have guns.

            Eliminating guns is obviously the only answer for a blame obsessed, risk intolerant society.

          • Ryan the Red

            Well, obviously. But what about those of us in blame indifferent, risk tolerant societies? Can we keep ’em?

          • Dan

            Yes, you can keep your guns because we know you wont blame us for letting you keep them and then you shooting your foot.

          • Bill

            Ok-but once we do this on the left and right coasts, what then?

        • Thadius814

          yup, so… FREE GUNS FOR ALL!

      • TonysTake ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ᵀʳᵘᵐᵖ

        Total BS.

    • Phillip Cooper

      Anything can break. Be careful, follow the rules, that’s what they are for.

    • TonysTake ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ᵀʳᵘᵐᵖ

      If you do a lot of shooting, this will happen to you sooner or later. It is exactly like riding a motorcycle. You will have an accident. It is only a question of when. You are a complete idiot if you even dare to think something like this won’t happen to you. Wondering “why” is Monday morning quarterbacking and isn’t the important lesson to be learned here. Your takeaway should be that there is a good chance this will happen to you eventually so always be aware of where your gun is pointed.

      • Dan

        Why is an important take away here, it helps you understand what went wrong so you don’t do it again. If the gun goes off unexpectedly you don’t want to know why? My first thought would be well i did everything i was supposed to WHY did that happen.

        • TonysTake ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ ᵀʳᵘᵐᵖ

          What is important to know is that it will happen. The reason is secondary. If you don’t keep your gun pointed in a safe direction when it is in your hand, you can hurt yourself or even worse, another person. Ask yourself WHY after you have killed someone? Ask God that question.

    • Dan

      1000 rounds is not really that much in terms of wear on a firearm. Using a round count to prove his DIY gunsmithing isn’t going to be very telling. Take a gun fire 1000 round and just notice how little wear on the gun there is. The fact remains when something that has been engineered to operate a certain way and you change that you are inviting a failure that you are then responsible for. It could 100% be a defect in the gun but because he tinkered with it you cannot say for certain it was. Something beyond your control is an accident. Everything else is on you.

  • Warpig

    I had a AR15 lower that was out of spec from the maker. Long short of it was a AD down range in a training class. The thickness of the receiver at the back of mag well was way too thick. It placed the block stop/catch in a position to not fully engage the bolt during mag changes. Throw in a really dirty DI upper with the firing pin sort of not free floating. It slammed into battery on its own. Bang, oops! My instructor was ticked but not a jerk. Out of service, get the back up. Took a while to find the receiver as part of the problem also. The company told my to pound sand. No warrenty! It more than 6 months old they said. Heck, it sat around for years before I built it. Stag if you all wondering.

    • You mean a company run by people stupid enough to keep thousands of non-serialed lowers lying around– even after being warned by ATF to cut it out– made dangerously crappy parts and refused to accept responsibility for it?!

      • Warpig

        Yeah, I kind of figured they would tell me to go get &*%%#%^! But I gave it a try to get it replaced. Should just cut it up so no one else get hurt.

  • Sometimes you can do everything right and still fail. This is why we follow Rule #2.

    • Joseph Goins

      I guess you someone are wanting to destroy the ground when you draw and reholster.

      • Mr Universe

        That’s obtuse, and you know it.

        • Joseph Goins

          No more obtuse than saying NEVER point a gun at something you don’t intend to destroy.

          • Mr Universe

            You are using “point” and “allow to cover” interchangeably, and you should be ashamed of being such a simpleton.

          • Joseph Goins

            If it’s in your hand, you are pointing it.
            If it’s in your holster, you are allowing it to cover.

          • Mr Universe


          • Joseph Goins

            While the gun is in you hand, can you accidentally press trigger and the gun go off while you are holstering/reholstering?

          • Mr Universe

            That doesn’t constitute “pointing”, which is – by definition – “the act of aiming at someone or something”.

            I can’t believe this is an actual conversation on a website for gun enthusiasts. This article is proof that many guns owners are feckin’ retards, in more ways than one.

  • 22winmag

    This is why I shudder every time I surf Armslist and see sellers spotlighting their kitchen-table trigger jobs as justification for pricing their cookie-cutter pistols above retail.

  • Quest

    I know that voice… sounds like from forgotten weapons.

  • TheNotoriousIUD

    So Mr. Tier One Tactical SCUBA Sniper disabled a safety feature and it almost cost him.
    What a dumb a-s.

    • Dan

      Right, then lets title the article as proof that ADs really happen.

      • Lee W Smith

        That should be MR One Tactical SCUBA Sniper to you!
        Everyone in this thread who believes that disabling ANY mechanical safety device on ANY firearm is ALWAYS a crime against nature — and there appear to be a multitude — lacks the brains God gave a bedbug. Back when the Seattle Police carried Vrowning Hi-Powers, the department armorer disabled the magazine disconnect “safety” on each duty gun, there by making the gun MORE SAFE for any officer called upon to use the firearm in defense of his life.

      • Lee W Smith

        Lee W Smith Dan • a few seconds ago

        That should be MR One Tactical SCUBA Sniper to you!
        Everyone in this thread who believes that disabling ANY mechanical safety device on ANY firearm is ALWAYS a crime against nature — and there appear to be a multitude — lacks the brains God gave a bedbug. Back when the Seattle Police carried Browning Hi-Powers, the department armorer disabled the magazine disconnect “safety” on each duty gun, there by making the gun MORE SAFE for any officer called upon to use the firearm in defense of his life. I guess that must have been “dumbassery” according to the geniuses in this thread.

      • Lee W Smith

        That should be MR One Tactical SCUBA Sniper to you!
        Everyone in this thread who believes that disabling ANY mechanical safety device on ANY firearm is ALWAYS a crime against nature — and there appear to be a multitude — lacks the brains God gave a bedbug. Back when the Seattle Police carried Browning Hi-Powers, the department armorer disabled the magazine disconnect “safety” on each duty gun, thereby making the gun MORE SAFE for any officer called upon to use the firearm in defense of his life. I guess that must have been “dumbassery” according to the geniuses in this thread.

  • DanGoodShot

    In response to the gunsmiths only thing. Just because someone has the title of “Gunsmith” doesn’t automatically mean they are a gun god or even have half a clue of what they’re doing. I have seen several examples of supposing gunsmiths that had no business working on a pair of shoes much less a gun. Guys who, when put to work on your basic bolt-action or old timey revolver can work magic, but when handed an AR-15 or any other more modern semi-automatic rifle or pistol are way out of their depth. But their pride prevents them from admitting it.(Someone with an ego in the gun world??not possible!) Lets just say you end up with something pretty shabby work.

  • Anon Nymous

    Any instructor who knowingly allows his or her students to disable a safety mechanism on a firearm, and then bring that firearm to a course and allow them to shoot it, is guilty of greater negligence than the moron student who disabled his internal safety. The real shocker in this video is not necessarily the AD/ND, it is the instructor having everyone give a round of applause for the guy who disabled his firing pin safety and exposed everyone in the class to a possible injury or worse. Investigate first, then find either fault and/or give praise. Yes – firearms are dangerous. Yes – things can break at the worst possible time. Yes – there is real risk that must be willingly assumed when operating firearms or taking a firearms course. But with real risk comes the need for real responsibility with real consequences when that responsibility is breached. All that is sorely lacking in this video. Know this – an individual (any individual, gunsmith or not) who modifies his or her firearm to purposefully disable the internal safety mechanism(s), and then carries that firearm in public, and/or take a course where this additional and unacceptable risk endangers everyone around them (safe handling/technique or not) is guilty of gross negligence, and no CHL insurance will cover them should they injure or kill a bystander. That guy should have immediately had his gun taken away, been told to sit out, and then debriefed to discover the cause. Once a competent/experience armorer/gunsmith determined that he had knowingly or unknowingly disabled his internal safety (wether or not this was the cause of the AD/ND) he should have been told never to come back to that school. What is perhaps more of a concern to me is knowing that ass clowns like this instructor and his hapless students are out wondering around with loaded, improperly modified firearms. The correct ‘take away’ in this video is NOT muzzle discipline, which in this instance only prevented the AD from being truly problematic because it was in the controlled environment of a shooting range. The correct take away is don’t disable your firearm’s internal safety mechanism, or play gun smith and monkey around with mechanical stuff inside of your firearm which might disable your safety mechanism(s).

    • John Smith

      Disabling FPBs is a common practive in shooting sports of all kinds. And considering the number of rounds fired without issue, the risk/reward ratio of this is obviously beneficial. The insurance companies and government authorities involved underwrite this practice as well.

      This was clearly a match of some sort because the competitor was disqualified.

      The validity of your concerns in carry, military and professional settings does not translate directly to competition use due to the entirely different and more robust overall safety environment. The safety record of shooting sports is excellent compared to the other typical uses of firearms.

      However, there are several action sports disciplines and divisions where this kind of a modification is specifically banned in the rules as an additional safety layer. Apparently this was not one of them. It was one of them where an AD will get you disqualified though and also one where the competitors are trained to a much higher level than your average pistol owner or operator.

      • guest

        “Disabling FPBs is a common practice in shooting sports of all kinds. And
        considering the number of rounds fired without issue, the risk/reward
        ratio of this is obviously beneficial.”

        What are these “shooting sports of all kinds” and which organized shooting sports authorities have ever endorsed or approved this, and since when and by whom was it decides that disabling a manufacturer-designed safety or performing any other modification to a similar tune has a “beneficial” risk/reward ratio?

        Jesus H Christ, I swear… every day, every day people just pull nonsense like you just wrote out of either rear ends or thin air.

        • John Smith

          International Sport Shooting Federation, International Olympic Committee, International Practical Shooting Confederation, do I need to go on?

          You obviously have no idea what kind of modifications are done to factory made competition firearms. I would venture a guess that you also don’t know that some participate with guns they have hand built themselves (as in designed, machined and fitted) or at least assembled from parts made by a large number of manufacturers.

  • Jim Slade

    I take issue with the term “accidental” when there’s willful dumbassery involved in disabling a safety feature.

    • valorius

      I agree 100%.

  • David B

    When my dad was a kid, he went to shoot his grandpaps bolt action savage .22. As soon as he chambered a round it discharged (safely) into a tree. They set it aside for decades and never touched it. Years later, I inherited it, tore apart the bolt, and found that the firing pin was broken, which would have lead to a true accidental discharge if used.

    • Cymond

      Don’t worry, someone will come along and dream up a way to call that negligence.

  • Black Dots

    Can we talk about how ironically awesome it is that the RSO is wearing a Carnik Con shirt?

  • JustAHologram

    I was expecting a high res image for a nambo

  • It is quite possible the “gunsmithing” buffoonery led to this discharge. However, there might be some evidence of negligence here, and not (fully) a mechanical cause. I watched this full screen frame to frame to observe some interesting clues:

    1. At 11 seconds, as he is retrieving a magazine with his support hand, he opens his strong hand grip on the pistol, possibly attempting to adjust the pistol correct a non-ideal grip. Regardless, reducing grip on the pistol.
    2. At the beginning of 12 seconds he cants the pistol to the right to accept the magazine. However, when doing so he raises his right thumb to an upward position instead of a solid horizontal grip position. This greatly reduces control over the pistol when the magazine is rammed home shortly afterward. He is just moving his thumb back down at the completion of the magazine insertion.
    3. When the shooter rotates the pistol back to the left for a slide rack his grip was still in some adjustment (his pistol hand thumb moving down and squeezing harder to control the force of the magazine insertion).
    4. However, as the shooter racks the slide with his off-hand notice the reaction of the hand gripping the pistol. His pistol hand arches upward, indicating an increase in grip strength (expected), but also providing some evidence that his trigger finger (possibly not in the best position due to previous grip adjustments) momentarily entered the trigger guard to complete a trigger pull. That arching of the pistol hand would pull the trigger finger (and others) backward and angled towards the pistol.

    The racking, gripping, trigger touch/pull, discharge, and subsequent finger removal would all occur in the same action completed in literally about 1/4 of a second. It’s quite possible the shooter didn’t even realize an inadvertent trigger pull happened due to the forceful racking. The range officer is out of view of the discharge, because the racking occurred directly in front of the shooter blocking his view. The slide racking could have masked the feel of the trigger to the shooter, and when his trigger finger moved back out he would have thought he was good and it was a mechanical failure. The range officer then moves up and sees a finger out of the trigger guard and believes the same.

  • marine6680

    The original CZ75 did not have a firing pin block… I believe the block was added to meet import requirements, but I don’t think it was necessary to pass those requirements.

    You can buy new CZ75s without a block safety from CZ. Removing them is a common thing for some competition guns.

    Competition guns are highly modified… look at the open class stuff the pros use.

    Competition guns fail more frequently/more likely due to these modifications. It’s a constant quest for improvement, while balancing that with safety. It can be a fine line, where a little wear can matter.

    Any person can take gun smith courses to learn how to work on their own firearms, they do not need to do it as a job/business to have the skills to work on firearms.

    Safety is important, and most people should leave well enough alone when it comes to their firearms… But this situation needs to be looked at as a whole, not in a narrow view from one perspective…

    “Holier than thou” attitudes irritate me.

    • billyoblivion

      It’s not “Holier than thou”, it’s a different mindset.

      It’s a different mindset. Every single one of my pistols was purchased as a *possible* carry piece. Most of my rifles were bought with mostly similar mindset. They were meant to be carried LOTS or stored loaded LOTS and shot little. It means when they do come out, off the range, they have to be *safe* until I deliberately choose to make them unsafe (well, for whomever is making me shoot them).

      I suspect that I’m not alone in this mindset.

      I’ve been around guns a long time, and I’ve played a few gun games (IDPA, and something somewhere between it and IPSC) where people modulated their powder charges and springs to minimize muzzle flip, where triggers and holsters were tuned etc. This is the first time I’ve heard of someone deliberately removing a safety device.

      This isn’t to say it’s not been done for years, but it’s not something that outside that community discuss much.

      Thus it’s not so much that we’re “holier than thou”, it’s that our perception of how one uses, handles, and maintains guns is very different.

      • marine6680

        I also look at most of my purchases from a practical standpoint.

        The holier than thou stuff is cropping up in the comments, I am not referring to the article.

        With people flat out berating the man in the video.

        Over tweaking the trigger, over converting it into a pre B, and how dare he think he could do the work himself rather than using a gunsmith.

        It’s not that there is a different mindset, one I share for the most part… But that they refuse to acknowledge that other mindsets and use types exist. And they seem to doublely discount that those other ways are in any way valid… Very “my way is the only way, all others are wrong, bordering on sacrilege.”

      • DrewN

        I carried a pre FPB Hi-Power,70 series 1911s and a (God help me) MAC1950 as work guns in my day, and the lack of a pin block was never an issue. It’s certainly not an issue on a range toy.

  • Rob

    Watched the video. Most likely scenario is an inadvertent trigger press during his sling-shot maneuver.

    The trigger finger is along the trigger guard and could easily jerk slightly and contact the trigger. It happens very fast and the recoil is going to smear his sensations about what happened. The modifications he made to the gun wouldn’t have kept the half-sear notch from catching a falling hammer without a trigger press, assuming the hammer jumped the primary sear notch.

  • Christian Hedegaard-Schou

    I’m 100% convinced that AD’s are real. Always have been. Things break, stuff happens.

    That said, I’m also convinced that 99.99% of “AD’s” are in fact ND’s.

  • valorius

    Proof positive why disabling installed safety devices is STUPID.

  • Pedenzo

    “……aftermarket parts might be installed improperly or have tolerance issues,…..”

    Sorry, but improper installation of aftermarket parts is by definition negligence of the highest order…..

  • Rimfire

    Took real guts to post this incident, actually. We all want to think “this would never happen to me, I’m more careful” but reality says otherwise. I applaud this article as a learning moment , thanks for the video Patrick

  • John Smith

    Negligence and an intentional act are mutually exclusive. Accidental discharge means that the shot was unintentional. Negligent discharges are really a subset of accidental discharges, where also some due care was not maintained. Not observing due care may in itself be intentional, but the consequent action or the results are unintentional. So if you try your best to follow all the safety rules and competition rules, an unintentional shot following such adherence to due care is not negligent. Due care is not perfection.

    Again people who come with the professional or carry perspective often view this too narrowly. In a competition setting we are attempting to make shots happen. That’s why we are at the range. Most of the time there is no question due care has not been observed if someone does an unintentional “desk pop” at home, in their car or when apprehending a suspect when no lethal force use is intended.

    In a competition or range setting we are often intending to approach the boundaries of human performance while adhering to strict safety standards. We see relatively often failures in this (between approximately 0.1% and 5+% of competitors are disqualified from action sport matches for safety violations, depending mainly on the match size, with more DQs for larger matches lasting longer, sometimes for many days), but much more rarely ADs resulting from those failures. There are almost never any injuries in said ADs in the global scale. The extremely rare injuries happen in solitary or unstructured practice.

    The point I’m trying to make is that the closer to actual shooting your handling task is, the more likely you are to have an AD regardless of your absence or level of negligence.

    For example, let’s say a competitor is shooting in the rain and making a mag change, when his weak hand thumb slips immediately after insertion of the magazine, but before forming a two handed grip, and contacts the trigger causing an AD. That’s a safety violation and a DQ offense, even if the shot hits the berm and a casual observer not familiar with action sports might not see anything wrong, with rounds going down range in an fast but irregular pace up to the AD moment.

    If it’s not raining too much for the match to be halted for safety, nobody actually failed in any due care. The competitor made a simple slip up, which out of tens of thousands of repetitions is bound to happen. Unless there is a pattern of failing this, there is no demonstrable negligence here. If you compare that to someone shooting a hole in their house from playing with an “unloaded” gun, there is a very clear duty that was neglected.

  • Joel

    Lots of guns don’t have drop safeties. The M1911 didn’t have one for decades and the ones made by some companies still don’t. Owners of these certainly are not obligated to have one installed.

    The issue seems to be the hammer follow. It would have been helpful if the owner had indicated if he put the hammer and/or sear in “as is” and if so what model, or if he modified it for less creep and by doing so had caused the issue.

  • USMC03Vet

    accidental discharges happen, but not with firearms. That is a weapon malfunction.

  • Kivaari

    It’s not an accident… if parts were replaced, or were allowed to wear out. I’ll accept unintentional discharge, but it was a man caused failure. Tweek a guns parts enough and they become unsafe and or unreliable. Leave them alone and take good care of them and if it fails it is a result of poor parts manufacturing, wear from choice of poor materials or failure to clean and lube or initial design. At least it was aimed in a safe direction.
    I view it like car crashes, there are no accidents there is a failure of a human somewhere along the line that led to the crash.

  • DrewN

    Which is kind of silly if you think about it, since they are basically the same damn gun inside with a few different parts plugged into the cage. Do the same rules apply to 70s/80s 1911s? You do have to draw the line somewhere though.

  • Paladin

    The 85 Combat also comes from the factory with no FPB

  • Will

    How many of these “Accidental” discharge guns were returned to the factory for free repairs and or full replacements?
    How many did the factory actually repair/replace free? I bet the number is minuscule or non-existent.
    In thirty five plus years as a military/ civilian police armorer and certified instructor virtually every one of these incidents I helped investigate were directly attributed to the owner/ shooter doing or not doing something to ensure the gun was properly maintained or handled and NOT altered by a shade tree backyard gun Plummer who was a legend in his own mind.
    I’m calling BS on this based on experience.

  • Simcha M.

    This happened to me a few years ago with a CZ-52 pistol at an outdoor, covered firing range here in Arizona. Upon cocking the slide I had a “slam” fire, due to a worn sear.

    Now my problem is getting a sear that came from an armorer’s kit, which were available from SARCO years ago for a song. Buying a used sear might just get me the same results..

    Either way, I was safely pointed downrange and nobody got hurt. Thank you, IDF for teaching me gun safety all those years ago.

  • disqus_PDmXLtTxJj

    When I was 18 I bought my first rifle, a Springfield Armory M1A National Match. A year later I heard a commotion outside that sounded like a dog fight I looked outside to see a large dog attacking my dog. I ran to the safe in the basement retrieved my rifle and put a magazine into the rifle and left the bolt open. Upon running up the stairs the barrel caught one of the lips of the steps upon at which time the rifle fired. I was dazed for a moment as the walls are concrete in the staircase. I was suprised and unsure as how this happened because my left hand was on the forearm of the rifle and my right hand was fully enveloped around the stock behind the trigger gauged no finger near trigger. When the rifle hit the step the bolt hold released and the rifle slam fired one round. I’ve tried for years to replicate this accident but have never been able to. I grew up around firearms and knew better than to load the magazine into the rifle while in the house. Point in case doesn’t care how safe you have been in the past you can screw up. Plus the more you shoot, the greater the instances of experiencing a weapons failure. Shoot safe and don’t think you have seen it all. I’m 32 now and I always keep my cell on me in case of an accident when I shoot.

  • Nathan Means

    Always point your gun in a safe direction so even if a misfire happens you are still safe.

    Does not matter that there was home gunsmithing, does not matter the round count.

    Heck some old 22s would have a sear wear down and go full tilt auto mag dump. Not the shooters fault. Not the manufacturers fault… Just happens.
    If you think you are above this, and if will not happen to me…
    never touch a gun agian, you are going to kill someone.

  • BudHall

    I also like that the RO, after ensuring(visually) that no damage/injury was involved and the weapon was then cleared & range made safe, made it clear to everyone there that the shooter had done everything right. This is an important aspect that serves to educate the peanut gallery and encourage the shooter to want to return the next time.

  • Steve T

    Anytime a weapon is in someones hands there should be an awareness that a bullet can come out of it, and anytime. Not just when they pull the trigger. I had a Norenco 1911 with a magazine in it. When I released the slide it slam fired and sent a round into the lower wall. It was brand new and only had a few rounds fired throw it. No one else was in the room or I wouldn’t have had a live round in the Mag. Still, a lesson learned. No one should hold a weapon without proper training first. There are many things that are needed to be aware of.

  • Henry Servatt

    Personally, I have little fear of the term “accidental discharge”. I have more issues with scenarios like, “there was a scuffle, and the gun went off”. My feeling is that guns do NOT just “go off”, like because of bad vibes from some weird dude spewing hatred and vitriol at it. Guns “go off” because they are handled by someone incorrectly, or there is a mechanical failure of some sort, as in this video — amazing to me the calmness of this fellow who drops his mag properly, racks his slide properly, and then CATCHES THE EJECTED ROUND. What poise in the midst of a confusing event!!! Kudos to student and instructor, both.

  • Art Nickel

    Can a copy of this video be made available for NRA Certified Instructors, please?
    I’d love to show this in class as it would drive home the number 1 rule in safety…

  • CavScout

    They aren’t ‘accidental.’ They are UNINTENTIONAL.

    Any time you don’t intend to fire a shot, whether with you pulling the trigger with sights not quite lined up or mechanical failure.