Nine People + Two Firearms = 111 Weapons Charges In Toronto

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That math does not seem to add up to me. But what do I know? Im not from Toronto nor work in Law Enforcement.

According to TheStar.com, Toronto Police Services raided a home as part of an investigation into an armed robbery. Nine people were arrested, among them a 12 year old girl.

Those arrested, range in age from a 39-year-old woman to the 12-year-old girl. Only three are over the age of 18, and one of the adults hasn’t been identified by police. Kwong said doing so would identify the underage suspects.

Police said two guns were seized—which they identified as a 9mm machine pistol and a .45 calibre carbine—along with several dozen rounds of ammunition.

It’s unclear to police if either the carbine or the machine pistol is fully automatic. Kwong said the Toronto Police Service won’t specify these details until their analysis is complete.

First of all it is not a machine pistol. Nothing about that says pistol. Whether it is full auto is a different story. From the picture those are not Machine Pistols. The 9mm SBR doesn’t even look like it has a barrel, but it is probably a super short barrel just under that barrel nut.



Nicholas C

Co-Founder of KRISSTALK forums, an owner’s support group and all things KRISS Vector related. Nick found his passion through competitive shooting while living in NY. He participates in USPSA and 3Gun. He loves all things that shoots and flashlights. Really really bright flashlights.

Any questions please email him at nicholas.c@staff.thefirearmblog.com


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  • Edeco

    12 year old? She about to start some crap, Zed.

    • nadnerbus

      That book on quantum physics is way too advanced for her.

      • Havok

        I’d appreciate it if ya eased up off my back about it.

  • Ark

    They’re not automatic, because they’re NEVER automatic.

    Also I wouldn’t be too worried, with a half inch barrel and no sights I’m pretty sure the safest place to stand when one of those is being used is about fifteen feet in front of it.

    • ostiariusalpha

      It’s a 9mm PCC, that short barrel is just as effective as a subcompact handgun for ensuring the bullets are reaching a lethal velocity. If this were a .223/5.56 chambered gun, then yes, it would be a joke to shoot.

      • Mick Finn

        I don’t think he meant velocity, I think he meant aiming it. Short barrel, no sights. You’d have to be in a phone booth or elevator with the shooter to be in any danger.

        • iksnilol

          Or slap on a red dot sight?

          OHMIGAWD! Optics allow you to snipe without a barrel… WE GOTTA REGULATE THOSE SOMEHOW!

          • Jako

            Don’t give any idiots any ideas, they might take you seriously.

          • iksnilol

            in some places optics are actually regulated.

            IE in Bosnia you can legally register firearms as war throphies (doesn’t matter if they’re belt fed MGs or whatnot, as long as it isn’t explosives) but you can’t buy ammo for it (i don’t know what the law says about having a hunting rifle that uses the same ammo though). But, every optic has to be registered as well (not that it’s hard to get or anything, it just has to be registered).

            I think that’s a part of the stupid Dayton agreement, many people improvised optics mounts and whatnot to make guns more effective. Gotta punish creativity, y’know.

          • Jako

            I know.

            In regards to Bosnia / Dayton Agreement, do we care enough for me to sift through the 149 pages looking for the specifics?

            What I originally meant was that people will make fear based emotion driven laws that are ridiculous that impact us. It doesn’t have to make sense, because it’s scary.

          • iksnilol

            Not really, I just used it as an example because that’s what I am somewhat familiar with. That and I don’t pass up a chance to say the truth about the Dayton “agreement” (which was that it rewarded war criminals by indirectly giving almost half my country to them and giving a third of the power to our other neighbour)

          • Dougscamo

            Huh?….WTF are you really from?….

          • iksnilol

            Twin citizenship, baby!

            Bosnian and Norwegian citizenship. Though I do live most of the year in Norway.

          • Dougscamo

            Okay….how much time in the States?….

          • iksnilol

            None. Like, good God, like I’d want to live in the US.

            I mean, no offense, but it’s kinda hard to know somebody who has contact with Eastern European arms flow if you are over in the United States. That and I like my tax-paid college and healthcare.

          • Dougscamo

            There’s some Yank in your bloodstream….or synapses….somewhere…btw…no offense taken….it’s a silly place….

          • iksnilol

            Nah, not really. It’s just the Eastern European spirit. What’s life if you can’t get f***ed up and break the occasional law made by weak children in the guise of men and women?

          • Dougscamo

            Groan….but I guess I’ll stay here because I can’t find anyplace that likes “my kind of people”….
            Edit: Heck….there’s a lot of state here that don’t like my kind of people…

          • iksnilol

            Well, buddy, hate to break it to ya… but, our kind isn’t really liked anywhere.

            We’re sorta kinda outcasts while on standby, but when ‘Ole Yeller needs to be put down they will be calling for unca’ Doug to put it down because nobody else can.

          • Dougscamo

            Yep….that’s why I’m staying….somebody’s got to do him…..

          • iksnilol

            Yellow son of a female canine had it comin’.

        • ostiariusalpha

          I’m aware of that, but at the distances these goobers were probably doing their dirty work in, point shooting is a perfectly viable option.

      • Anonymoose

        It’ll still just poke neat little 9mm holes in things. Unless you’re using fancy short-barrel-designed JHPs, you don’t get good expansion from standard JHPs that are designed to be shot from at least a 4″ barrel.

        • ostiariusalpha

          From the picture, they seem to have been exclusively using FMJ, which is all you really need when you’re a criminal scumbag menacing someone who is unarmed.

        • Ebby123

          There are graveyards full of people who killed by the lowly 9×18 ball.

          • marathag

            Back in the day, .38 short Colt and 38 S&W did the same, put folks 6 feet under.

          • J.T.

            Back in the day, you didn’t have EMS and a trauma center to save your ass.

          • marathag

            Plenty still die from 25acp, though, and that’s worse performing than those two old rounds. Hit the right spot, and you bleed out just the same as if you were hit with a 10mm

          • Anonymoose

            Yeah, but it’s not exactly a “1-shot stop” usually.

          • Ebby123

            No argument here, though it very rarely is with pistols…

  • MrBrassporkchop

    Omg several dozen rounds? We’re they planning to start WW3?!

    • Dude

      WW4, because, dozens of rounds…

  • iamlegion

    Only three are over the age of 18,

    Well, 3 adults and 6 minors… that’s 6 endangerment (or whatever the Canadian equivalent is) charges per adult, per infraction. Depending on how many individual infractions they count per gun, plus whatever ammo & clip-size laws they’being hit with, that could add up to 111 charges pretty quickly. Not that it’s _sane_ at all, but I figure that’s how the math works out…

    • Gambler X

      clip……

      • Nick

        Triggered

    • IshTheBuddha

      clip….

    • Anomanom

      Agreed, depending on the specifics, with 9 people and multiple counts, charges could stack up fast.

    • Jako

      Defaced serial numbers, Guns were stolen, and just being in possession of them without a license brings a handful of charges.

  • Jeff Smith

    The title of your story doesn’t reflect the fact that the firearms were used in connection with an armed robbery or the fact that the 111 counts are for nine people, though it’s mentioned in the body. The charges probably aren’t solely on the grounds of possession of the firearm, but also in connection with using the weapons in the commission of a crime.

    When you consider that nine people were arrested in connection with said armed robbery, the fact that there were 111 weapon related charges isn’t too crazy. Depending on the amount of people who were victims, you probably have at least one count per victim for each defendant, another count per gun, and, if the magazines were over the legal Canadian limit, there’s probably another charge per magazine.

    Multiply it all times nine and it’s not out of the ordinary.

  • iksnilol

    Did they charge them by the cartridge?

    Also, I always knew that Stacy was up to no good.

    • Mystick

      Little girl, all alone walking down the street at this time of night with quantum physics books? She can’t be up to any good…

    • Dougscamo

      I used to….back in my salad days before the courts said…”You can’t do that!”….but it was only for felons in possession…

  • Anonymoose

    2″ barreled 9mm ARs. Now I’ve seen everything.

    • Jako

      Not even AR’s, TNW Aero’s.

  • VanDiemensLand

    Haha if you can take the stock off an 5.56 AR and call it a pistol, then they can call a pistol calibre AR a pistol IMHO, but then I ain’t no pedant.

  • kgallerno

    Welcome to the Lieberal controlled leftard media in Canada where .22 semi rifles are called assault rifles and bb guns are dangerous weapons and a brick of .22 ammo is a arsenel according to them.

    • Mystick

      You laugh but they just banned airsoft guns in Baltimore.

      • VanDiemensLand

        They’re already banned here, and you need a firearms license to own a paintball marker, or crossbow, or air-rifle.

        • Dougscamo

          Bummer, dude….

  • USMC03Vet

    Dozens of rounds. DOZENS!
    The free world can breath safe tonight.

    • DIR911911 .

      a lot of people carry that much in the car as back up

      • Dougscamo

        Heck….I carry that many on me….

  • Vizzini

    When are we finally going to get our ridiculous laws about short-barreled rifles changed? There’s nothing more dangerous about either of these guns than a normal .45 or 9 mm handgun.

    • Mystick

      Especially in Canada.

  • Mystick

    “SBR” is an NFA term, and not propagated to Canada… But yeah, these are the greatly exaggerated charges.

  • Frank Grimes

    Commies.

  • H&R Canada

    Toronto Star or Red Star as its know for Liberal anti gun stance and sensationalizing gun stories.

  • The_Champ

    Keep in mind in Canada, almost any type of illegal activity with a firearm involves numerous charges. There are improper storage charges, licensing and registration charges. Add in the robbery stuff, use of firearms in an offense, pointing firearm, dangerous use of firearm etc. Slap all those same charges on all those people, plus any breaches of existing court orders those likely repeat offenders were bound by, and the charges quickly add up.

    But don’t let that fool you, this is Canada after all. The offenders, if convicted, will receive a much less severe punishment than they would in the US.

  • Helpful

    Just to note. The rifle on the left is an Aero pistol caliber carbine. The distinctive magazine well and the front swell give that away. The rifle on the left is a Just Right Carbine. The left hand charging handle and the distinctive grove in the receiver for the bolt hold open defines that gun. A guesstimate due to the use of the 9mm Korean 50 round Glock drum is that these are both 9mm versions, although that would need to be verified.

  • st381183

    The one one the right is a dissembled JR Carbine. The one on the left looks like anAeroTech survival rifle. Neither have fully automatic factory versions that I know of.

  • Jeff Smith

    Ah, my mistake – the updated version of the article (my post with it is posted pending review) says they the raid was a direct result of a probe investigating a car jacking, but that no weapons were used.

  • DanGoodShot

    But, but we gotta demonizing inanimate object! God forbid we blame the people who “operate” it. That would be using….. (said in a whisper) logic

  • Jim_Macklin

    Ah Canada 111 charges minus 9 humans means 2 guns 100 rounds of ammo.

    Canada does not have a Bill of Rights

    Twelve year old girl, locking her up will certainly give her a solid education in crime.

    If one or two people did an armed robbery, arrest them. If adults committed crimes lock them up. But what did the 12 year old do? Oh Failed to turn her parents in to the police.

  • valorius

    This story screams outrage, but there is often details that the press conveniently forgets to report that makes said story a whole lot less outrageous.

    George Zimmerman being a prime example.

  • Cal S.

    The one on the right looks like an American-built gun that’s trying not to be anything NFA…

  • Joshua

    in Canada anything with an overall length of less than 660mm (26 inches) is a restricted firearm, which is the same category as a pistol. don’t expect a newspaper, let alone a Toronto newspaper to know the distinction.

    also, the one on the right appears to be an AR-15, which means it’s probably a prohibited weapons since the RCMP have determined that most AR-15 variants are “To easy to modify to fire fully automatically” which means it can technically be a “Machine Pistol” under Canadian law without technically being either.

    no it makes no sense, it’s law, don’t expect it to, you’ve got some fun weirdness of your own

    • Joshua

      from reading the actual article, a link would have made it easier, it was an armed robbery bust, that gives a lot of potential charges, in addition to what is almost certainly several possession of prohibited devices charges.

      they can charge them for the robbery, armed robbery, uttering threats, reckless endangering, possession of stolen goods, transporting prohibited firearms, owning firearms without a PAL, possession of prohibited devices, one for each gun and magazine, and so on, times nine people who can be charged with it all, you can rack up 100 charges amazingly fast. generally it becomes a game of “how much can I throw at you and how much do I expect to stick” for the charging officer, the more charges they throw on, the more are likely to go to court, possibly plead to in order to lighten the sentence, and the more expensive it will be on the defendant.

  • Jake

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f3698cecc51d66c214ff0578190f513c681a7a2dbbd797b994d45f80d0efe5bb.jpg

    ah yes. the real problem in canada is those damn gun rights advocates..

  • nick

    …my oldest daughter chuckles as she cracks open another 1000 case of 7.62 x 54r for her SVT 40…
    ohhhh….dozens of rounds….you would have to know how inept the Toronto police really is to understand the headline. With any “gun crime” they throw any and all charges at you they can , praying the judge will not toss everything out….

    • The_Champ

      Classic anti-police BS.

      Yes blame the Toronto Police for laying the appropriate charges by the letter of the law. Laws written by the politicians we all voted into power.

      This has nothing to do with the Toronto police being “inept”. They are enforcing the law.

      I’m glad there are two less stolen guns in the hands of some urban gang banger kids.