TFB EXCLUSIVE: FBI Says SIG Romeo4M Red Dot Is Good As An Aimpoint | Approved For Duty!

maxresdefault

It is no secret that SIG Sauer suffered a pretty large blow to the P320 series of pistols when the FBI selected a modified version of the Austrian Glock. I thought that just about everything was lost for SIG and their ambitions of landing Gov approval of their use by federal law enforcement officers.

Since the move to go with Glock, I have been told by someone within SIG that the FBI is looking very hard at their new V-Crown hollow point as well as the FMJ range ammo that is purportedly matched in performance to the defensive loads.

The most exciting development in my humble opinion is allowing FBI personnel to use the previously unproven Romeo4M red dot sight on their duty rifles. Does this mean that they feel the SIG sights are as good as the Aimpoint offerings?

TFB received a tip from a Special Agent that the FBI has approved the Romeo4M for use on personally owned rifles in addition to the Aimpoint H/T series.

After I was informed of the FBIs green light of the Romeo4M, I was left wondering what type of testing was conducted to verify the sight was up to duty use. Was there an extensive test done to ensure that the sight had no defects or weak points or did they approve the sight as a result of the SIG name alone? What was it about the Romeo4M that drew the FBIs attention over the other SIG electro-optic offerings?

TFB has reached out to the FBI by email seeking comment on the testing procedures used to clear the Romeo4M for duty use but has not received any response as of the time of publication, we will update as we learn more. TFB has received confirmation from our source within SIG that the Romeo series has been picked up by the FBI.

Currently, the Romeo4M seems to have a street price of around $500 with an included mount.



Patrick R

Patrick is a Senior Writer for The Firearm Blog and works in the shooting sports industry. He is an avid recreational shooter and a verified gun nerd. With a lifelong passion for shooting, he has a love for all types of firearms, especially handguns and the AR-15 platform. Patrick may be contacted at tfbpatrick@gmail.com.

The above post is my opinion and does not reflect the views of any company or organization.


Advertisement

  • Emfourty Gasmask

    Seems like the Sig optics guys take their job seriously

    I still am massively sour at the monkeys on the firearm side. I unfortunately was stuck beta testing a 556XI and I regret every ounce of my being for buying into the hype.

    • micmac80

      Sig only does the industrial design and branding. Chinaman does the rest in ths case most likely Holosun

      • TheNotoriousIUD
        • Brett

          In the parlance of our times.

        • iksnilol

          How is he Asian American when he’s only in China?

          • yodamiles

            Yeah….I doubt any Asian American are willing work in China for a $2 an hour job (made up number) producing budget optic.

            -From an Asian American

      • Dave D

        Talked to a sig rep about a month ago and he claimed that the optics are no longer made in China. Claims they NOW designed and manufactured in house. He was upfront that that they were previously made in China and I know that Holosun made at least some or all the RDS. Haven’t been able to confirm where the RDS are made now. If US made, then I would look hard at the Romeo.

        • Patrick R. – Senior Writer

          I got the same from the SIG rep at my 9-5 job. He said that the only Holosun left is the design of the body.

        • jng1226

          This makes zero sense. The cost basis of manufacturing in the USA alone would at least double the price of the optics. They haven’t changed the prices of the optics that “used” to be made I China, so they are now losing money? I doubt this seriously. I used to have a lot of things made I China and brought some of them back to the USA for certain contracts so I’m pretty confident to call BS on this story.

          • CruisingTroll

            They may very well be made in the Philippines. A lot of optics are being made there now.

  • Patrick Karmel Shamsuddoha

    well if this is true, i would chalk the expansion of the Sig portfolio as a step in the right direction, their news cans are very promising I’m looking at picking up the SRD 7.62 QD myself and i really like the idea of the Romeo 4C (solar powered model)

    • I like the solar powered as well as my Trijicon RMR with dual power sources and no batteries.

      • Joseph Goins

        Curious: Is it hard for your to see your the dot on RMR If it isn’t too bright where you are? (Such as indoors when it’s bright even for you to see without turning on the lights…)

        • jng1226

          I have a dual illuminated RMR with the 12.9 MOA triangle. It sucks when you’re in a dark area aiming into a bright area. If your eyes are not night-adapted and you go indoors with no lighting the reticle is also very hard to see. Lastly, if you’re indoors and use a bright white light to illuminate the target the reticle nearly washes out completely. They are good for outdoors all the time. That is all.

          • Joseph Goins

            Thanks. I was debating between the LED or the dual. I guess I’ll go with the LED.

  • ClintTorres

    Does anyone know if the Romeo4M is a Holosun rebadge job?

    • Drew Coleman

      According the owner at my LGS, they’re pretty much the exact same as the holosun and primary arms offerings – just different appearances.

      • Chad Brown

        Your LGS owner is an idiot.

        • Drew Coleman

          Care to expand on that, or are you just going to insult and not provide any backing?

          • Chad Brown

            The only support I need is your post. I own a ROMEO4, a ROMEO5, and a SIG P320 RX review model. I also own two Holosun micro red dot sights, which are mounted on my son’s airsoft rifles, and I recently gave away a Primary Arms micro red dot sight.

            Suffice to say: I stand by my comment.

          • Joseph Goins

            Anecdotal response is not evidence.

          • Chad Brown

            My personal experience is not support enough for my own opinion?
            Well, that’s a new one.

          • ClintTorres

            I think that what Joseph is getting at is that you have not stated any reasons which would lead you to believe that the Sigs are not Holosuns other than that you own both brands.

            If you had said that you took them apart and examined them or that they appear to be vastly different in the way they function or something to that effect then others may have a reason to believe your statements were credible.

          • Chad Brown

            Thanks for clarifying, but my credibility is irrelevant. The FBI approval speaks for itself.

          • ClintTorres

            The crux of my question circles around whether or not the FBI has tested and approved what may, ultimately, be a Holosun-sourced RDS.

            If that is the case, then I and surely many others would feel a lot more comfortable putting $200 Holosuns on our firearms.

            However, the question has not been definitively answered.

          • Joseph Goins

            “The FBI approval speaks for itself.”

            This would be true if the FBI tested Holosun and Primary Arms to the same standard. The fact remains that they have not. Therefore, your “credibility is irrelevant” and unreliable.

          • Chad Brown

            That is not a fact in the least, unless you have a statement or report that says so.

            Here are all of the pertinent facts, at this point: according to an unnamed and unverified source, the FBI has approved the SIG ROMEO4 for duty use.
            That’s it.

            I am inclined to believe that the approval followed an approval process.

          • Joseph Goins

            “I am inclined to believe that the approval followed an approval process.”

            They followed an approval process for the SIG because that is the only sight that they looked at. That is a far cry from saying SIG isn’t “pretty much the exact same as the Holosun and Primary Arms offerings” (which is what the original commenter said).

          • Chad Brown

            “…that is the only sight they they look at.”

            Bollocks.

          • Joseph Goins

            Prove it. The GPO only purchased sights from Sig.

          • Steve Hanna

            STFU! You make my thumb hurt

          • Chad Brown

            You prove it. You’re the one making asinine claims.

          • Joseph Goins

            “My personal experience is not support enough for my own opinion? Well, that’s a new one.”

            Enough to support your opinion? Yes.
            Enough to sway another’s opinion? No.
            Enough to claim that his gun shop owner “is an idiot”? No.

          • Chad Brown

            I don’t really care if you quantify my claim, or not. Anyone who says that the ROMEO4 and Holosun sights are “essentially the same thing” is a drooling moron.

          • Joseph Goins

            Based on…your opinion? Got it.

          • Chad Brown

            Yes. Based on my opinion. Which is what I’ve said all along. Moron.

          • valorius

            Are you triggered snowflake?

          • Chad Brown

            Not at all, Bill.

          • valorius

            I’m guessing we’ve crossed paths online in the past. 🙂

          • Chad Brown

            No. It took a little digging, but it was well worth it. It always makes me smile on the inside when a detractor turns out to be a hopeless basket case.

          • valorius

            So you’re not only wrong about the Sig sight…you’re a stalker. 🙂

          • valorius

            They’re essentially the same thing.

          • Chad Brown

            I rest my case.

          • lol

            Haha haha God tier trolling

          • Chad Brown

            To be fair, Drew’s comment was the start of the troll train. I mean, why else to make such an unsubstantiated comment, if not to stir the pot?

      • Patrick R. – Senior Writer

        That is not correct at all. The M is. It not a Holosun according to my sig guy.

        • thedarkknightreturns

          Since you know a guy…who do they farm the “M” out to?

          • thedarkknightreturns

            I am asking because I am writing a letter to our President Mr. Trump with a list of all companies that are American brands but market and sell marked up junk from Chynah. I need to tell him who they are farming American jobs out to. Maybe someone in Pennsylvania could have been making those Romeos and not someone in Taipei or Shanghai.

          • Joseph Goins

            Shanghai lives matter!!!

          • Patrick R. – Senior Writer

            They wouldn’t tell me.

        • jng1226

          That’s funny. My business partner who is owns 2 firearms industry companies knows a “guy” inside Holosun and he privately confirms they make all the Romeos for Sig. I think it’s in Sig’s interest to state that their top-tier red dot is not made by Holosun.

          • Patrick R. – Senior Writer

            I can only relay the information that the field tech from SIG gives me.

          • Chad Brown

            It’s not very private if you broadcast it on the internet, is it, Jeffrey?

          • jng1226

            At least I didn’t name the Holosun source. Sig isn’t being transparent in this case IMHO so I’ll do it for them in the interest of protecting my fellow consumers from deceptive practices.

      • JSmath

        Difference isn’t just appearances, but they are nearly identical.

        The same overly-dumbed down (for dumb people) advice could be said about how all CPUs are the exact same thing, or that all rifle scopes are the same, just glass and a tube.

    • These aren’t. The FBI is sure not going to buy a rebadged Holosun!

      • ClintTorres

        The only reason I ask is because Sig’s RDSs were know to be made in China.

        If I were to buy a $500 RDS, I’d rather stick to something not made in China.

        • valorius

          I see sig sights going for as low as about $150 bucks.

          • Sunshine_Shooter

            I bet those sights weren’t Romeo4’s. Their lineup of electro-optics is rather large, with a range of prices and (assumption alert) qualities.

          • valorius

            R4’s are on amazon right now for $220.

          • Sunshine_Shooter

            Hmm, interesting.

          • valorius

            If they’re good enough that the FBI approved them, that’s a pretty good price. They have models on Amazon that go from $179 (The R5) to $400. Most are in the $200-300 dollar range. The Romeo4 Model is $222.93

          • Patrick R. – Senior Writer

            There are different Romeo4 models. The 4M is about $500 and not a Holosun.

          • valorius

            $500 for a simple device that merely reflects a dot off a lens is a total rip off, but to each their own.

          • Chad Brown

            And the Burris Fastfire that you mounted on an HK P7 was less than half. 😀 😀 😀 😀

          • valorius

            I think i paid $199 for that with the mount. I see you’re familiar with my work. 😉

          • CommonSense23

            It’s definitely not using a laser.

          • valorius

            I’ve just been told it uses a mk1 thingamabobber

          • valorius

            No? What is it then.

          • CommonSense23

            Lasers are used in holographic sights like Eotech. It’s why Eotechs need a larger battery and have far shorter battery life.

          • valorius

            Again- what does it use. An LED?

          • AlanHan

            It’s an LED.

          • valorius

            Thanks- it was like pulling teeth to get that info. 😉

          • ClintTorres

            Well there’s proof positive. No self-respecting optics manufacturer would offer(or allow to be offered) a not-made-in-china RDS for less than $400…none!

          • Cynic

            R4a and b yeah the R4M iv not seen sub 450

          • valorius

            What feature(s) does the M possess that the other 4 models do not?

          • Cynic

            the coating on the lenses are different, the waterproofing is different not sure about the others.

          • ClintTorres

            I’m just referring to the price quoted in the article but it is quite possible the mount costs $300+…here’s looking at you GG&G.

          • valorius

            Anyone who’d pay $200 for a mount is just plain nuts.

          • DrewN

            Jesus, I hate to remember what GG&Gs EoTech enclosure/mount ran me. Love their one piece qr rings though.

        • Anomanom

          Give it up man, everything is made in china.

      • Joseph Goins

        Hey hey! Don’t hate on Holosun. They’re not half as bad as NC Star.

        • Joel

          You should be in marketing. New Sig/ Holosun slogan:
          “Not half as bad as NC Star.”

          • Joseph Goins

            “Holosun…still better than EOTech.” 🙂

          • The_Automator

            Eotech has a L O N G history of putting rounds on bad people. Yes, there were issues with zero drift and them not fessing up, but to act like they’re not better than Chinese optics is pretty ignorant.

      • Rob

        The Sig Romeo4 is a re branded Holosun with cosmetic differences and a lifetime warranty. They are made is the same location for SIG. SIG has a long history for cheap Chinese optics. The romeo4 is better than products from the past but yes, the FBI did essentially approve a Holosun product for duty.

        • thedarkknightreturns

          Yep Rob, you are 100% correct these are made by Holosun for SIG.

          • Chad Brown

            100% is a lofty claim. Bet you can’t back it up.

          • Joseph Goins

            Bet you can’t disprove it.

          • Chad Brown

            Bet I don’t have to. People who lie for internet points tend to keep doing it until no one believes them.

    • UVB76

      Holosun is your Toyota, SIG Romeo’s are your Lexus. The 4M is the F Sport. That little “M” is important…

      • ClintTorres

        Good, as long as I know I’m not getting a Fiat!

      • valorius

        …to people who worry about what letters of the alphabet a manufacturer uses.

        • UVB76

          it was a hint “valorius.”

          • valorius

            I was gonna go with UVB76 for my screen name, but it was taken. 😉

      • Joseph Goins

        There’s nothing wrong with Toyota. Lexus is overpriced, and F Sport is just bragging.

  • Christian Hedegaard-Schou

    “TFB EXCLUSIVE: FBI Says SIG Romeo4M Red Dot Is Good As An Aimpoint”

    So the above headline is basically a giant clickbait lie? Because at no point in the article does the FBI say that, nor are there any links to anything real whatsoever that corroborate that.

    They’ve approved it. Nothing more.

    • If you read what Patrick said he referred to comments from agents. That would be where the reference to Aimpoint came from. Of course they used and tested them.

      • Zach Robinson

        Nowhere in the story did it refer to an FBI agent stating that (an unnamed one at that.) According to the story: “TFB received a tip from a Special Agent that the FBI has approved the Romeo4M for use on personally owned rifles in addition to the Aimpoint H/T series.” So no, the FBI has not specifically stated that the Romeo 4 is as good as an Aimpoint. This is clickbait, hardcore.

        • Patrick R. – Senior Writer

          Some people value their job. If a source requests to remain unnamed we respect that request.

          I did confirm the information with two SIG employees.

        • Joseph Goins

          That’s journalism, dude.

      • Christian Hedegaard-Schou

        The only quotes remotely resembling what you just said are the following:

        “received a tip” and “TFB has reached out to the FBI by email seeking comment on the testing procedures used to clear the Romeo4M for duty use but has not received any response”

        Neither back up your claim.

    • Patrick R. – Senior Writer

      If the FBI approved a sight in addition to the Aimpoint, I take that as an endorsement from the agency. Approving both tells me they feel both sights are on an equal level.

      Not click bait if that was my takeaway.

      • CommonSense23

        Not sure how you can feel something can be on a equal level just from being approved. Approval just means it passed a certain set of standards.

        • Patrick R. – Senior Writer

          Correct. At some level they are equals. I am working on getting some of the test data, but it may take some time.

      • Joseph Goins

        True. Aimpoints were approved for a while. They just recently added the SIG sight after a extensive testing. They aren’t saying Brand XYZ with Product ABC is bad.

        • Patrick R. – Senior Writer

          No, they are saying that it meets their needs as well as the Aimpoint.

          • Joseph Goins

            And they don’t go through some approval process in order to “meet their needs”?

  • MrBrassporkchop

    “Nope, impossible. It’s not the most expensive so it’s junk” – Gun guy #1

    “I ran over it with my car and it didn’t hold zero. If you trust this optic with your life you’re a damn fool!” – Gun guy #2

    • ClintTorres

      “But the chinese are not capable of manufacturing high-quality products although they did make my TV, laptop, smartphone, tablet, microwave, watch, pacemaker…OMG, they made that?…, sunglasses, clothes, garage door opener, christmas tree….” – Gun guy #3

      • durabo

        Is there ANYTHING sold in America that is not made in Fu ‘Qin China?

        • L Cavendish

          drugs…alcohol…tobacco….and they are working on the drugs…

        • L Cavendish

          ammo…but Trump may change that

        • CruisingTroll

          Yes, quite a bit. The buyer just has to be willing to pay a bit more.

          • jim

            And willingly do. Don’t support the Chinese Economic/Military syndicate. Economics is war.

    • Ebby123

      “Well my cousin’s girlfreind’s roomate’s brother was at a gunshow once and heard a guy say his exploded! SIG is garbage!” – Gun guy #3

    • Matt Taylor

      “I bought one and it holds zero on my .50BMG AR just fine, and I’ve had it for 7 years without changing the battery. GTG” – Gun Guy #4.

    • Ryan Snow

      Gun guy sounds like Larry vickers

  • Joshua

    It was approved, that’s all.

    In no way does this prove the durability of this optic.

    • Joseph Goins

      Not entirely true. It was approved after extensive testing. We can say it’a durability is good, but we can’t compare it to another product that didn’t go through the same process.

      • Chad Brown

        Prove it.

  • Spade

    2 MOA red dot with 65 MOA circle? Hello, nurse.

  • valorius

    Some of the Sig sights are quite reasonably priced compared to Aimpoints, which IMO are vastly over priced.

    • Uniform223

      Yes aimpoints are over priced but after getting an M68CCO that probably went through 5 different users and was used and abused as much as a TJ prostitute at a donkey show… If I had the money I would be willing to drop a grand to have that type of durability and utility again.

      • valorius

        Used is the way to buy an Aimpoint or other pricey red dot. They are really massively inflated in price due to the tacticool tax.

  • Richard

    Does it seriously say that only their gunsmiths are allowed to install pistol grips?

    • Rob

      If you have ever served in an institution that issues large amount of firearms this is 100% the correct call to make.

    • milesfortis

      Yep, you read that correctly.
      And I understand the principle.
      They want to be absoeffinglutely sure that the grip screw, selector detent and selector detent spring are reinstalled correctly.
      You can’t imagine how often that ‘simple’ procedure is screwed up.

      • Richard

        When I built my ar-10 I almost screwed it up so I guess that I understand.

        • Chad Brown

          Yikes

          • Richard

            It was my first build and I didn’t realize that the pistol grip did more than give you a place to hold the gun.

      • valorius

        Idiocracy and all.

  • BO

    As far as a DUTY optic goes they just haven’t been out long enough to say they are a proven optic…which they may eventually be. Also, I would be concerned with the optic turning on and off while riding in a squad negating any battery savings. I would also like to be able to control when my optic turns on and off but that’s just me. Like I said these may turn out to be a solid optic but they need to get more job experience before they can be labeled DUTY ready in my book…but I’m just one person. I would be very interested in the testing they did…especially if they tested for extreme temperature POI shift.

    • valorius

      I honestly think people worry way too much about this crap.

      I had a $79 Walther PS-22 that fell out of a 10 foot tree stand and still worked perfectly. It used one AA battery and would stay illuminated for about 3 months on a low power (indoor/dusk/night) setting. It was on my hunting rifle for 2 seasons. After the fall i trusted it enough that I put it on my home defense gun backed up by tritium iron sights.

      I just think the name brand tacticool sights are an ENORMOUS rip off.

      • ARCNA442

        Which is why you see so many militaries outfitting their soldiers with Holosuns?

        The high quality sights are most certainly not a rip off – but for the average gun owner they are probably paying for unneeded capability. The problem is no one really tests the cheap stuff so it’s best to choose something that has been tested by the military or police.

        • valorius

          Are you in the military?

          We had what any tactical operator nowadays would consider crap-ola colt 4x carry handle scopes when i was in, they worked fine.

          Any typical patrol cop would’ve been perfectly well served with that Walther PS-22 i mentioned on his AR. Any optic that can take a 10 foot fall out of a tree stand (for the record i did not drop it, the whole stinkin’ stand came down as i was climbing back up the ladder after using natures toilet, it was old and the wood was of questionable strength) and still work perfectly well gets this ex grunt’s seal of approval.

  • Ex Light Infantryman

    The almighty Aimpoint H1/H2 are made in China not Sweden.

    • Joe

      Wut.

  • UVB76

    The Romeo4M is different than the A/B/C. Hence why the price is closer to an Aimpoint H-1/T-1 street price. It appears the Romeo4M (M = ruggedized or Military) was approved for carry by Agents. The Aimpoint H-1, H-2, T-1 and T-2 are also approved for carry (and must be 2 MOA).
    The Romeo4a/Romeo4b/Romeo4c have IPX-7 “waterproofing.”
    The Romeo4M has a IPX-8 “waterproofing.”
    The Romeo4M has a different filter coating and it looks like it was done to meet certain Mil-spec reqs.

    • Chad Brown

      At least someone here knows WTF they’re talking about.

  • Kurt Ingalls

    LOL……my TRS-25 Bushnell maybe a bottom feeder but damn that little thing is tough as hell for $89…..might try the HoloSun someday when the bushy fails(lol, if it does…..)

    • Patrick R. – Senior Writer

      Leave it on for a while, that is the failure point with my TRS.

      • ARCNA442

        Out of curiosity, how long did you leave it on for before it died?

        • GI

          Mine has lasted about 8 months with a new battery. At about level 4 IIRC. Not bad, considering I can get batteries for under a dollar.

        • Patrick R. – Senior Writer

          After replacing the battery I left it on for two days to come back to a dead battery.

          • glenn cheney

            So, do you have a defective Romeo foxtrotting on ya’ or did you buy your batteries at the Dollar store rack with short time on life?
            Others saying GTG, yours not so much, so is it your “unit” or was it your battery?
            Just askin’…………………

          • Patrick R. – Senior Writer

            I am used to Aimpoint length battery life, it may be fine but I don’t think I will be trusting a $45 optic with any serious tasks.

          • glenn cheney

            I’m trying to understand if all units share heavy battery draws. My tools all configured to 4.5×18 scopes, terminals to 600 yds.
            I have no close qtr. Needs, but do want to keep some 7.62×39’s for quick acquisition needs. I’m not being argumentative, for my needs, 45 bucks is ok if batt. life is only question.
            I now looking at Redfield’s Accelerator Reflex Sight, retail 249.99, @ 119.99. I believe mfgr skew F04RA117852.
            Your valued opinion most appreciated.
            Thanking you in advance.

    • Twilight sparkle

      I saw an approved optics list for Austin PD once, surprisingly the trs-25 and primary arms micro were on it

  • .45

    As so many others think, I don’t see that the FBI using necessarily means anything. Let AK Operator’s Union play with one for a bit and then if they give it a thumbs up I’ll be interested.

    • Patrick R. – Senior Writer

      Shoot. All they need to do is give me one. If it can be broken, I will break it inside 6 months.

      • Uniform223

        I have a battle buddy who has a master’s in engineering, former infantry, and now works for a very very large defense company. He works for their “ground systems” branch where is job is to break things. If he can’t find a way to break something or make it completely inoperable in 72 hours, its indestructible.

        • uisconfruzed

          I know that guy, he’s Bam-Bam!!!

      • DaveP.

        “Give a legionnaire three lead anchors; within a week he’ll have broken one, lost the second in the field, and pawned the third for drink.”

    • Joseph Goins

      I broke an Aimpoint T1 after three months. “Torture tests” mean nothing.

      • .45

        I said interested, not sold.

      • uisconfruzed

        How did you pull that off?
        I’ve had a T-1 on my Colt Anaconda 44mag shooting full loads for 10+ years and haven’t had to even touch the adjustments, I did replace the battery once.

  • Frank Grimes

    Evike: Official gear source of the FBI.

  • Frank

    Yet the only WML is one known for breaking/poor durability?

  • Scott Connors

    Until we see the actual testing protocol and the results, it would probably be a good idea to take this approval with a grain of salt.

  • Wingbert

    Is the Romeo made by Holosun? Seen it for as low as $229 on dvor

  • Ben Pottinger

    I don’t understand why the aimpoint “patrol” isn’t approved. I remember looking at that sheet last year when a fbi friend asked me about buying a duty rifle (realize, they have to buy that gun out of their own pocket and that list is the only approved stuff that can be put on it!). The lack of a few magpul items or ability to get it as a SBR is kind of a bummer. A quality 1×-4× option would be nice too.

  • Michael B

    When you can put a proven optic like the Mepro RDS PRO on your baconsaver for less than $600, WHY would you put ANY Sig optic on ANY of your weapons?