Nicholas C

Co-Founder of KRISSTALK forums, an owner’s support group and all things KRISS Vector related. Nick found his passion through competitive shooting while living in NY. He participates in USPSA and 3Gun. He loves all things that shoots and flashlights. Really really bright flashlights.

Any questions please email him at nicholas.c@staff.thefirearmblog.com


Advertisement

  • John

    Felin variant of the Famas. The picatinny top rail is the giveaway.

    • Tritro29

      not Felin…

  • John

    Beretta G model is/was the standard police and military sidearm in France.

  • Thomas Royan

    The FAMAS is the model FELIN, it was developped for the “next gen of infantry”.
    The pistol is a PAMAS, A Beretta that was produced in France with Beretta’s license

    • Saumya Supratik

      It’s the FAMAS Valorise to be specific. The Felin variant has the HMI foregrip-handle. The barrels for both the Valorise and Felin were replaced with one from Beretta, it’s kinda of like a MLU.

      • Thomas Royan

        Yes you’re right, my bad

    • John

      Pamas if the G variant also if I recall.

    • Evan

      Correct. John(below) is also correct in that it is the G variant specifically, meaning that there is no safety on the PAMAS G1, it’s a decocking lever only.

      I talked to a former member of the Gendarmerie, and he said basic carry of the G1 was carried one round in the chamber, hammer down.

      • John

        That is basic carry for a DA/SA gun. It is how I shoot my DA/SA guns.

  • Giolli Joker

    The dreaded shoulder thing that goes up!

  • forrest1985

    I assume that the “legion” will be adopting the new HK rifle now as well?

    • Evan

      Eventually, if French Army does. The Legion will probably get hand-me-down FAMAS rifles to cannibalize first, however.

      • forrest1985

        I thought they would be one of the first in line? Is that not the case then?

        • Evan

          Probably not. From what I understand the French Marines get first dibs for new gear; then Army, then the Legion, technically a branch of the French Army. The current “mainline rifle” of the Legion is still the FAMAS F1 variant, they didn’t get the FELIN until 2012.

          It depends on regiment, but various older weapons are still in use with the Legion, a la the PA MAC 50 (replaced by the PAMAS G1 in 2000 in the French Army), or AA NF1 (replaced by the FN MAG in French Army service since 2010).

          • AK

            That’s right, it’s like the Marines in the US – bottom of the pack for new gear, unless it is crucial to the mission. Most of these guys are foreign and expendable, although that’s slowly changing.

  • AK

    Sarge flags his guys pretty bad with his pistol at 1:27. These types of risky situations are actually very common in most military units, since guys are often fatigued at the range and not as experienced as IPSC shooters, etc. in handling their arms in a safe manner when manouvering.

    • 11b

      Guys die every year in live fire training, it happens. There is an inherent risk involved no amount of training and safety briefs will eliminate.

      • AK

        I’m not disagreeing with that, you can see that slight mistakes happen all the time, but it takes really bad luck or plain negligence usually to make them add to a bad accident. Everyone in military has had a relatively close call at some point.

    • Tritro29

      He’s in the middle the gun stays right in the middle facing ground, He checks exactly where the gun is pointed, finger off the trigger. Zero risk taking in that sequence, there’s a situation where the Minimi isn’t secured perfectly but that’s OKish, the recoil is rather light and the grip not so bad. Guys fatigued at the range…compared to your average IPSC guys these ones EAT fatigue.

      In few words that’s exactly how it should be done.

      You’re comparing two situations that have nothing in common. Poor visibility, night conditions, with clear view and tight movement control.

      • AK

        You obviously have not been in the military. These guys could have well been on exercises with little sleep for days, and as a result, simple things become difficult, head is foggy, etc. That’s fatigue.

        Still looks like he flags his guys accidentally when holstering, and I don’t get the point of the safety officer giving covering fire in any case. It doesn’t add anything to this drill. The two main guys should be reloading at separate times as well, if possible.

        • Tritro29

          Given I come from a country where military service is compulsory and that I extended my service for a 3 year contract, I found your assumption laughable.

          These guys are clean shaved, bloused, prepped and you have the ECPAD running a shoot on them. If you have been in a military, that doesn’t show, the slightest. He doesn’t flag them, because he keeps the gun close to his chest, has the finger off the trigger and tries to minimize barrel exposure.

          It adds to the drill the fact that there is close contact fire in vicinity which might happen both in the field (FFL does police task in MALI) or in France (Vigipirate). Nope they shouldn’t reload at separate times because the exercise is a threat suppression and neutralization in conjunction with smg/Pistol calibre fire. This is police support task.

          • AK

            Clean shaved, etc. of course. That doesn’t mean they haven’t been up all night the previous week or two. And I think the video clearly shows that he flags them, because after he checks the barrel he forgets about it while starting to holster.

            Your last point makes no sense. So the police and legion would take turns shooting their rifles and pistols? The guys are advancing, they should be covering front right and front left respectively. Once one runs out of ammo, he calls it out, they seek cover (=drop down) and reload. The empty guy goes first and guy with ammo left keeps his eyes on target and provides suppressive fire. Once the first guy is done, second guy can do a tactical reload if needed and then both advance again.

            The supervisor shooting his pistol behind the firing line just adds unnecessary risk to this drill. And I have done the same drill countless times.

          • Tritro29

            Sometimes you know you are in trouble when you have to explain something as basic as perspective in a video. There’s at least 1 m (actually 2) In between the rifle team and the “linebacker” (arms length), he advances as to cover and guide them on a narrow AOF.

            He doesn’t forget, the pistol is close to the body, at that range, the bullets won’t leapfrog to the next guy, moreso because his finger is off the trigger.

            The exercise starts with an established target, multiple silhouettes and funnel shoot. There’s literally no use for a check one, check two in this scenario because the goal is to saturate the PID threat, close in while firing until the threat is down. The movement is clearly cautious and rather aggressive. The NCO is there to hold a directive line and arc of fire. They aren’t into a kill-house, they’re into an open environment with no obstacle between them and the PID target/threat.

            So the sequence is perfectly executed, huge volume of fire, covering fire, huge volume of fire. 1-1-1 makes pretty bad use of fire power, two guys are sitting on their a**es doing jack while one is firing. It’s clearly bad asset use. If you see most Police interventions, the PID threat is saturated by all available firearms, no one takes turns wondering if there’s anyone coming from behind because the threat is identified.

            Frankly, the more you’re talking about this, the less you seem to understand what this is about.

            You have done this drill countless times on what purpose? FIBUA? Counterforce? Patrol?

          • AK

            Wow. You are reading into this way too much. They are just doing basic stuff, learning to shoot while manouvering. There is no grand scenario here. And even if there would be some grand plan in this particular drill, if you are saturating a target with fire the element which is supposed to advance will haul ass while that’s going on. What you are trying to say makes no sense tactically. And police tactics are not comparable to military tactics, even SWAT. Techniques yes, but tactics not. Otherwise those cops would be having a really bad day.

          • Tritro29

            They are not manoeuvring… it’s a straight shoot. PID, acquire target, shoot, cease fire. There is a scenario in which they are being supported by a smaller calibre weapon which also happens to be their support/direct superior. Which in a counter-terrorist task would be exactly how these guys would cooperate with a police patrol. Soldiers do not have police powers in Europe, they can’t operate without police presence for any-other duty than self-defense.

            Haul Ass? I hit my desk so hard that I think I woke up my neighbour from the house on my left. Why do you have to shift the goal posts every time you open your mouth too much. These guys are doing a support drill. Saturating targets while advancing. At some point there is a support element armed with a smaller calibre weapon. It doesn’t make sense in any war scenario, it makes sense only on patrol duty in current “Vigipirate” environment and probably peace-keeping/policing tasks in OPEX.

            The threat they are saturating is probably more aerated than swiss cheese. I know that hepls with aerodynamism, but not with leaks. Humans tend to work less well when they leak.

            Police tactics, Military tactics bla bla bla. They are doing a reaction/First response drill with a smaller calibre support element. Mostly for camera…

            Actually it’s very easy. You opened your mouth to bash these guys. Turns out that there’s nothing wrong with what they’re doing only your perception. That’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. But the rest is garbage. PERIOD.

            Also you say you have done this drill countless times. I what capacity…Please do tell.

          • AK

            So now they are doing anti-terrorist operation? I think they are just practicing shooting and walking forward. I get the point of the simulated “supporting fire” but the supervisor seemed to flag his guy accidentally when stepping behind him and holstering, so I questioned if the way the drill was set up was optimal (which in my opinion it is not). This is a general “basic shooting skills” drill, it is not meant to simulate actual combat situation. Or is there a tactic where you have two guys assaulting terrorists with a single police officer, walking in an open field, and the police officer is making sure the two guys are staying in line? I’ve done this drill in military capacity, as in serving on the army of my country, both active and reserve. You’re just trolling, I’m actually just replying because you are quite entertaining, but I’m done now.

          • Tritro29

            Anti what? Ok, I guess you’re going to rehash this so you can try and hold on to every straw so you can “win” this argument. Good luck with that. Google Vigipirate You’ll understand what it is. As Internet experts go you nailed the trifecta.
            1. Inventing something that isn’t going on.
            2. Invoking without evidence your opinion vs people thare BTDT.
            3. Playing stupid while the simple exercise is clearly aimed at sub units, hence the fact this video along with a boat load of others from ECPAD or French media show them in long sessions.
            The exercise simulates a first response type of action. Does it encompass all aspects of it? No, because this is for show mainly. Do marathonians only run 42.126 km on training ? Nope. You still haven’t answered in which qualité have you done these drills “countless” times? Still no answer.

          • AK

            1) It’s a simple shooting drill, and video shows supervisor seemingly flagging with pistol when reholstering. You can call it a “first response drill” if it makes you feel better. I call it learning to shoot while moving forward, applicable to any situation that calls for shooting while moving forward. All militaries drill this type of action.
            2) I admit, never been in the Legion. Have served and continue to be on active reserve.
            3) How is this relevant to a guy flagging another guy with pistol? And now who’s clinging to straws?
            Vigipirate is just the name of the alert scale of the french govt, just like the US has its own terror meter.
            A couple of weeks ago I did this drill and I was shooting space aliens. The time before that it was invading hello kitties from Japan, and the time before that it was vigipirate ultralegionnaire combat patrol antiterrorist police co-operation ninja op with massive pistol fire support. But then again, it’s just walking and shooting all the same.

          • Tritro29

            Uugh, you’re the only damn Guy saying that the NCO points the gun in an unsafe direction, this is Typical from discussions with US mall ninjas. Yeah as I said, you look for attention. Geta cat, that helps.

          • Baggy270

            Why don’t you guys agree to disagree and we’ll move on

          • Tritro29

            Also plan Vigipirate is not te alert scale name, it’s public security and safety scheme that entails along others military on the streets. Idiocracy exemplified.

          • AK

            OK, and the superspecial Legionnaire Vigipirate shooting drills are detailled on which page of the scheme? Give it a rest already, computer warrior.

          • Tritro29

            Haha, trying to reverse the roles now, mall ninja? Ignorance without borders…

          • Fabian

            Tritro29, You know what you’re talking about. Lots of points I didn’t think about before reading your post.

          • Tritro29

            It takes 30 seconds to see objectively what’s at hand once you have been in these people boots. Compared to this so called ‘french’ execution (that is pretty “normal”), some of our maneuver drills in my first year looked like a bunch of monkeys with AK’s, muzzles painfully moving every way harmful possible, guys sometimes not engaging the safety, because too much Black Hawk Down, sometimes trying to establish eye contact with officer while listening with the muzzle wandering around the head of the squad member on the right.

            But claiming they ‘Frenched’ out their drill…lol/

  • 11b

    The Legion aren’t so much ‘elite operators’ as they are ‘unstoppable brick sh*t house’

    • Dave

      Isn’t that true for any “elite operators”?

  • therealgreenplease

    Let me famask you a question…

    • Raginzerker

      This comment… wins pin of the day

      • Raginzerker

        Pun….damn auto correct

  • john huscio

    Kinda surprised they haven’t phased the PAMAS out for SP2022s

    • Anonymoose

      I’d take the Beretta too if I were going to war. It’s just a better-made gun.

  • Tritro29

    Famas Surbaissé, PAMAS and Minimi-C.

  • Lance

    Like the French navy they updated there FAMAS rifles seem the French army was being lazy on updating them. Now have to pay a expensive price to replace 1st gen rifles.

    • Tritro29

      … °.° You understand that FFL is part of the Land Component of the FArF? They don’t have their own procurement structure and usually are the least favored for new contracts.

  • gunsandrockets

    What is that triangular thingy at the front of the FAMAS carry handle?

    • pbla4024

      I am under impression that it is a front iron sight.

  • Carl Mumpower

    I’m curious – is walking straight toward the opposition current first tier training/technique? That seems to have some serious limitations.

  • Frank Grimes

    That’s actually pretty smart that they’re not wearing their slings.

    I assume it’s much easier to drop the rifle that way.

    Solid French tactics.

  • tb556

    Legionaries don’t use helmets?

  • smitty26

    This is s drill at the Marines Special Forces(MARSOF) too.The guy with the pistol covers his buddy wihle reloading.Drill is for close distance shooting.Normally there
    are two operators .

  • smitty26

    Distance to the targets was about 35 meters,we worked towards 5 meters and than
    worked backwards.Using H&K 416 and Glock 17.While walking backwards the operator holds the shooter at the back of his gear and leads hime back .So he can still fire on the targets.When his H&K runs out of ammo :he’s on his knee for reolading while his buddy brings out covering fire with the Glock.All the way back to the 35 meter line.Targets were man size “pop up”.One team(frogmen) is 6 operators
    so great drill with multiple shooters.Very impressive,and never heard of accidents.

  • Watch the language—-

  • Arie Heath

    A lot of people hating on the French in this comment thread. They are just as competent in a fight as any other country’s military.

  • Martin Grønsdal

    no hearing protection?