IWI Tavors at 2016 FN 3Gun Championship

DSC_0016

For the past four years I have staffed the FNH USA 3Gun Championships. I am staffing the match again this year and I am writing this as the match is being held this week. The match is held Thursday thru Saturday. Competitors shoot only 3-4 stages a day. However Staff shoot all 10 stages on Tuesday and Wednesday. During the staff shoot I saw Rebecca McCoy and Tom Alibrando of IWI competing with staff. I did not get to actually see them shoot but I saw them as I drove past to head to some of the stages. Two ROs that I am working with were on their squad. During lunch on Wednesday I asked them “So how are the IWI people doing in the match? How well has the X95 been doing on the long range targets?” To my surprise they said that the X95 is doing great. In fact they were almost one to one on the long range steel.

If you remember back in April, there were some reports of the IWI X95 having accuracy issues. Here is one article we posted. Tim Harmsen of Military Arms Channel also tested his X95 for accuracy. Well here at FN 3Gun, that does not seem to be an issue for these Tavors. There were two long range stages. Stage 9 and 10. Stage 9 has 6 targets. 5 MGM flashers which are 8″ in diameter and one skinny sammy. The skinny sammy is only 4 inches wide at the widest part and 14″ high. It is like the size of a gopher standing up.  The skinny sammy was set out around 120 yards and the other steel ranged from 220 yards out to about 280 yards. Stage 10 also has six targets but it has two skinny sammies and the furthest target is out to 385 yards. And the Tavors did not have a problem with any of these targets.

14141974_1071844849536584_5096450873593277466_n

Tom on Stage 9 shooting off the log out to 290 yards on the furthest target.

 

14199263_1071845206203215_6329897909014147293_n

Tom using the X95 on Stage 10 barricade.

14224692_1071845036203232_4766311784829973491_n

Stage 2 roof simulator.

 

I interviewed Tom about his and Rebecca’s performance here at FN 3Gun.

 

As was mentioned in the video above, Rebecca shot the match with her OD Green Tavor SAR. She used a borrowed Burris 1-4x scope for the match. Rebecca is left handed so the Tavor is setup for lefties.

DSC_0027 DSC_0028

14202482_1071844889536580_6810567194656405967_n

Rebecca on stage 9.

14202636_1071845099536559_95576119109900056_n

Rebecca on stage 8

14222268_1071845289536540_9187772588717904838_n

Rebecca engaging long range targets on stage 10

14232580_1071844962869906_4407343026225128570_n

Stage 3 required you to shoot 120-160 yard steel through these narrow slots.

 

They used modified Jerichos. At the IWI booth they had some Jerichos on hand for competitors to try out. Here is a “Unicorn” as Tom called it. An FDE Jericho.

DSC_0031 DSC_0032

The reports of accuracy issues are something to consider. However practical application is something completely different. Here is positive proof that the Tavor X95 may not be as inaccurate as some believe it to be.



Nicholas C

Co-Founder of KRISSTALK forums, an owner’s support group and all things KRISS Vector related. Nick found his passion through competitive shooting while living in NY. He participates in USPSA and 3Gun. He loves all things that shoots and flashlights. Really really bright flashlights.

Any questions please email him at nicholas.c@staff.thefirearmblog.com


Advertisement

  • Drew Coleman

    Has IWI ever formally addressed the accuracy complaints?

    • Nicholas C

      Not to my knowledge but I have not looked into it.

    • Harry’s Holsters

      Doesn’t deserve to be addressed. Most of what I’ve seen puts it under 4MOA. People are complaining because it’s not AR accurate for the price.

      • Drew Coleman

        For that price, isn’t it reasonable to expect smaller than 4MOA accuracy?

        • Harry’s Holsters

          If it were an AR or AK yes, but this is a completely different platform. The gun is still combat accurate. You have to remember these are made to a different spec and IWI and it’s OEMs are the only ones making parts. It’s not like the AK or AR with tons of shops turning out parts.

          You’re paying to have a unique rifle that’s a bullpup.

          Saying price is relative to accuracy is just wrong. If that were the case a SCAR L would be 2.5 times more accurate than a $1000 AR15.

          • 4 MOA from a modern rifle though is really bizarre. Mr. Gunsngear has a test of the Aresenal AK74 shooting 1980’s spam cam mil surp ammo, and it’s holding around 2 MOA.

            It doesn’t need to be 1 MOA or as accurate as an AR. But less accurate than an AK74 shooting mil surp is pretty inexplicable. The FS2000 and AUG are both 2 MOA average guns, and I’m not aware of any carbine besides the AK47 shooting steel case that’s 4MOA.

            It would be good to get some high speed footage of the Tavor/X95, and see if there’s some undiagnosed barrel harmonics issue at work.

          • Emfourty Gasmask

            I dont really know. My friend has a SAR and I was putting up 2″ groups with it at 100 yards, so I have no idea.

          • It seems from most reviews I’ve read the SAR is more accurate on average than the X95. Given how similar the rifles are, this really makes me think it’s some sort of barrel Harmonics issue with the X95, rather than just a materials and design issue.

          • Harry’s Holsters

            I have know idea what the cause is.

            The 5.45 is know the be very accurate and the surplus 5.45 is known to be great ammo in terms of accuracy. I’ve heard you can except 4 MOA from a lot of FALs and even G3s. Those are battle rifles but that’s different. A standard M4 or colt 6920 with 55gr ball seems to be 4 MOA for most samples. You can get the groups smaller with the right ammo. The tests I’ve seen with the 95 tended to get similar group sizes no matter what ammo was being used. It keeps pace with an M4 but not an AR with a FF rail and very good barrel.

          • Kivaari

            I’ve never had an Ar that shot 4 MOA, they all produced 2 MOA or better. That’s with factory ammo from a coupe sources. Recently I used some Walmart “Perfecta” that gave 1 MOA in two different ARs. Perhaps it is the BCM uppers I use on all my current rifles. But, I had a Bushmaster HBAR that would do 1 to 1.5 MOA. That is not with factory triggers, but SSAs, so perhaps the combination of BCM uppers and SSA triggers is what it takes. But none of my ARs over 40 years ever shot 4 MOA unless I was really not doing my part.

  • truth makes you free

    Ha, ha, ha… showcasing a mediocre product.

    • Nicholas C

      How is it mediocre? It does the job it needs to do.

      • JumpIf NotZero

        Try reloading on from an urban prone or in a vehicle. The stock trigger is god-awful. They’re heavier without optic than my 11.5 SBR with suppressor that I use for 3gun.

        I don’t know, I tried to like them, but I kinda have to agree that they’re mediocre. So far as compared to the 50 year old AUG , it’s definitely nothing special. That’s pretty much the definition of mediocre.

        • Gerbs

          So you’re saying in their stock configuration they’re competing against SBRs and precision bolt guns at the same time.

          Yes. Very mediocre. So mediocre that no other gun is held to that standard.

          • JumpIf NotZero

            So you’re saying in their stock configuration they’re competing against SBRs and precision bolt guns at the same time.

            I can’t even begin to fathom how you read that from what I wrote.

          • Blake Allen

            Anyone who complaints about the trigger pull on a Tavor needs to suck it up. It’s no worse than a stock AR trigger. People make way to big a deal over triggers on firearms. Just practice with your gun and get used the pull. Ya bunch of sissies. Unless you are talking about an FN FS2000 or a Beretta Storm carbine, your trigger is fine.

          • JumpIf NotZero

            It’s no worse than a stock AR trigger.

            I found it to be exactly that.

            The Geiselle trigger makes it OK, but doesn’t fix the other issues with the tavor. Mainly the pistol length gas system doesn’t suppress well, it’s pretty aggressive for recoil despite its weight (relative), it sucks to reload, and worse to clear malfunctions.

            I like the “suck it up” though. Because during an event in Utah I was at there was a long distance section. The poor kid with the Tavor couldn’t hit anything, so I tried. I went from 400y and 500y steel with my aimpoint AR, to being LUCKY to hit 200y with a Tavor.

            That was the day I knew that gun was a joke, but maybe they’ve gotten better…

          • Blake Allen

            Dang! Maybe that kid didn’t sight it in correctly.

            I’ve spent hours with my Tavor learning all the hold overs on my Meprolight. I can ring a 12″ plate at 600 yds with almost 100% consistency. I haven’t replaced the factory trigger. It’s even easier when I put my Nikon scope on it since I have it dopped out to 800 yds. Granted I have the 18″ barrel Tavor.

            Perhaps it just matters how much you practice with your rifle.

          • bobinmi

            video of you hitting a 12in plate at 600 and 800 with a tavor or it didn’t happen. I won’t hold my breath. There is no damn way you are hitting with 100% accuracy on a 12in plate at 600yd target with a meprolite with a 4.3moa red dot. I am so sick of keyboard warriors.

          • FarmerB

            Yeah, I’d like to see that. Would save me a lot of money on ACOG and Steiner and Leupold optics and I could sell all my DMR rifles for a Tavor.

          • RSG

            I agree- unless he’s fired thousands of rounds, from the same exact spot, to the same permanent target, with permanent landmarks holdover cues to aim at. 600 yards with a 4 MOA dot? Lol.

          • Zachary marrs

            No worse than a stock ar trigger?

            No

          • iksnilol

            An AUG is a precision bolt rifle now?

        • stephen

          “Try reloading on from an urban prone or in a vehicle”

          I have and its not that big of a deal. I have dealt with M16s and M4s during my time in the military and I have say the Tavor is a little different (goes without saying).

          But is this an equipment issue or a training issue? New equipment requires training. So while it may seem difficult to those of us who used M16/M4s for decades, thats only because its a different piece of equipment and most have not trained enough to get really proficient on the Tavor. I know I’m guilty of that (I need to practice more reloads, etc.).

          As for the trigger I totally agree with you.

          Anyway what would it take to move it above out of this mediocre level to superior in your opinion?

          For me I would like to see it a lot lighter.

          • Bill

            I shot our rifle qual with an AUG one handed when I had a broken shoulder. The reloads were problematic only because I had essentially one hand.

        • I just tried out my AUG in both the Urban Prone and in my car. Reloading really wasn’t much of an issue in either.

          What was much more of a factor is the way the fetal urban prone and seated car position changed the ability to access spare mags. Both positions significantly slowed down the ability to access a new mag out of a pouch.

      • truth makes you free

        The job it needs to do? You mean making a profit off gullible purchasers who end up with a lousy trigger, laughable accuracy, and crummy finish? That job?

        • John

          Sounds like you’re describing Arsenal AKs 😉

          • truth makes you free

            (laughing) Yeah, throw those in the trash heap too!

        • It’s not mediocre at all. I got one of the very first Tavors sold. In fact at one time one of the executives at IWI told me I probably had more rounds downrange than anyone else on the planet. His words not mine. I’ve found it accurate and perfectly serviceable. There is nothing wrong with the finish mine still looks great. The trigger while not perfect was an easy thing to make better.

          • truth makes you free

            Suum cuique. Even if we restrict comparison to bullpups, the Steyr AUG and variants beat the Tavor by any qualitative measure. You like ’em. That’s your choice. Some people bought Yugos. Suum cuique.

          • iksnilol

            I was about to upvote you until you disparaged Yugos. They’re great cars.

          • truth makes you free

            (weeping)

    • Kivaari

      It’s an interesting product. It is the first bullpup rifle that has enough gong for it that I may actually buy one. AND I have not been a bullpup fan all these years.

  • MAF

    There is a difference between practical accuracy (PING!) and group size testing.

  • ReadyorNot

    In before the bullpup haters

    *edit, too late

    • JumpIf NotZero

      Que the people who have used bullpups enough to recognize the functional and effective differences relative to traditional layouts. The ones who know that while they are a handy tool if perhaps you can’t get an SBR but do come with disadvantages that no amount of familiarity will outright overcome…

      Just kidding… I know that sentiment isn’t going to be reinforced here.

      • iksnilol

        Que the folks who use 6.5×55 bolt actions and 30-40 year old AKs.

        Just kidding, that sentiment won’t be reinforced here.

        • De Facto

          While I don’t own an AK, I do have a 6.5×55 Swedish Mauser and a 30 year old SKS.. does that count? 😀

          • iksnilol

            Yup, c’mere.

            We’ll be the voices of reason amongst a sea of space marines and tacticoolers.

          • De Facto

            THERE ARE DOZENS OF US! DOZENS!

          • Gus Butts

            Please do not take my people’s name in vain.

          • Sunshine_Shooter

            Tacticoolers? or Space Marines?

      • ReadyorNot

        Different strokes for different folks. Just because you can shoot *insert platform* better/worse than *insert platform* doesn’t mean *insert platform* is the best or worst than anything in the world.

        I’ve shot and own the major rifle groups to include AR, AK, and Bullpup and honestly could see myself “fighting” effectively with either. The biggest push-back in my experience online and on the range has always been with the AR crowd though.

      • De Facto

        Queue: A line or sequence of people or vehicles awaiting their turn to be attended to or to proceed.

        Cue: A thing said or done that serves as a signal to an actor or other performer to enter or to begin their speech or performance.

        • FarmerB

          Queue the people waiting for their cue.
          And Que¿ = Spanish for what?

  • stephen

    I have the 5.56 Tavor and I like how compact it is. I was a little concerned when people said it had accuracy problems but when I zeroed it at the range, I didn’t have any problem except one – the heavy trigger. So I took a spring out to lighten the pull and it helped tighten up the groups. Yes its a bit heavy but I like it.

    With that said, I’ll probably get the X95 next year (as prices go down).

    Some can call it mediocre but beauty is in the eye of the beholder – the Tavor does everything I need it to do and then some.

    🙂

  • Bill

    This example probably speaks more to the skill of the shooters than the rifle. I’ve seen a number of firearms go from inaccurate to accurate when the nut behind the butt is swapped out.

    • From Russia w. Love

      The AK47 — Best Fighting Rifle in History
      by Jeff Kirkham

      I stood on the first Afghan target I had ever assaulted looking at an AK we had just taken off a body of a man who had decided to fight us.

      It was stamped “1953” and I thought to myself that at that point in time that rifle had been in combat for at least 40 years, with little to no maintenance, and was just as deadly that day as the day it rolled off the manufacturing line in Russia.

      I thought back to 2002, right before deploying to Kuwait in preparation of the invasion of Iraq. I had the opportunity to do the first non-bias “official” testing on the AK-47 for the Department of Defense (DOD) and Special Operations Command (SOCOM).

      Up to that point in time no data could be located on the performance of the AK, where the DOD had officially tested it. After I finished that week of testing, it forever changed the way I look at the AK rifle and I came to the conclusion that the AK was the best-engineered rifle in history.

      Since that time, I have used, carried and taught the AK extensively. It was my choice of weapon during the years I spent fighting in the Global War on Terror and would be to this day.

      During the DOD/SOCOM testing, we exploded all the myths associated with the AK such as accuracy, ergonomics, heat, etc. We confirmed that the AK did in fact have incredible reliability. We proved that the rifle was well within the parameters of accuracy, the ergonomics just simply needed to be learned and understood, and that it was an incredible feat of engineering.

      To understand the rifle, you have to understand the mind set of the men who designed her. Every Russian felt the effects of the war with Germany. Over 20 million Russians died during the war and many soldiers starved or froze on the Eastern Front.

      Kalashnikov himself was wounded on the Eastern Front and saw the meat grinder first hand. To assume that every single portion of the AK was not thoroughly thought out is naive at best. They knew what made a good battle rifle, because they had personal and first hand accounts of the most destructive war the world had ever seen.

      What I like to call “Team Kalashnikov” would have all been men who fought against the finest mechanized army the world had ever seen, the German blitzkrieg army. Those same men would have seen friends and family die from starvation and cold, in no small part due to lack of supplies. They would have had burned into their brains that above all, weapons must work, even if logistics are cut off and no maintenance materials are available. Weapons must be easy to fix, or its parts easy to fabricate, and continue to fire even in the harshest of conditions.

      One of the brightest mechanical engineers that I know once said to me, “Any idiot can come up with a complicated solution to a problem. But it takes a genius to come up with a simple solution to a complicated problem.” I believe that simplicity is the spirit of the AK-47.

      The AK is an incredible achievement of engineering that has withstood the test of time and I would argue that it’s the most ergonomic, best thought-out, and least-understood rifle today.

      I think it’s fair to say that the men who experienced the horrors of the Eastern Front would have first and foremost wanted reliability in the most extreme circumstances. We’re not just talking about dirt, grime and wear but temperature extremes, hard unrelenting use, little or no lubricant, no solvent, no cleaning supplies and unreliable ammo.

      The rifle would need to hold enough bullets that it could be an effective platform for fire suppression and a reduced rate of automatic fire so that a single man could control it.

      The rifle would need to be accurate out to 300 meters and we proved in our testing that the 7.62×39 fired from an AK was more than adequate. More importantly, the rifle would need to be accurate even in the hands of a minimally-trained fighter, so the ergonomics would facilitate accuracy in fire, especially under stress.

      Any look at current news events, history or use of the AK-47 itself confirms all of the above. But American gun owners, whose experience of a rifle consists of limited range shooting, followed by cleaning, might miss the profound truth of the AK.

      Reliability is no bullshit. When you run your rifle through the ringer, as happens on almost any battlefront, you live and die based on how relentlessly your rifle does it’s job.

      If that’s your definition, as it is mine, than the AK-47 is your assault rifle.

      • AC97

        What in the name of hell does this stupid copypasta have to do with anything?

        Are you Sermon 7.62?

  • Don Ward

    Mmmhhmmmhhmmm. C-Clamp grip.

  • Taylor Bosch

    There’s people commenting that they can’t seem to use the Tavor past 100-200 yards accurately. I think this is more of a training issue. The hold, pivot, and support points are all different. Height over bore makes a fair difference too. My Tavor will match my AR’s for accuracy up to where you should reconsider using .223, and that is with the stock trigger, and a scope much lower magnification.

    My only experience with severe inaccuracy is ammo related. For some reason M855 loads shoot anywhere between 2-6 MOA, and the ejection is highly erratic. My AR’s aren’t noticeably affected. Is this an issue for anyone else?

  • vwVwwVwv

    the people who had problems with the gun are no nuts, they shoot for sure beter than
    the average guy. i am quite iritated now. 🙁

  • M

    It was never deemed inaccurate for combat or 3 gun, the main complaint was “why am i paying so much for a firearm that’s only combat accurate”

    • Smith

      Accuracy on a very well engineered and manufactured weapon, such as the IWI Tavor X95, depends primarily on the shooter and application; if you are shooting long range, that is another ball game, so use the correct tool for the job.

      My X95 is a pleasure to shoot, ergonomics are great, it is a professional CQC weapon and means business; rest assured that it provides “to hell and back” reliability and it is quite deadly even at a few hundred yards if you practice.

  • Marvin

    On a side note. Now that the 7.62×39 ACE rifle and pistols are again for sale. WHERE IS THE .308 ACE?????

  • MarcoPolo

    Tom from IWI is the guy that taught me how to shoot a machine gun. It was a Tavor X95 at IALEFI 2016 in-fact. Awesome!

  • Tom is the man…. but that YouTube cover shot makes him look like he is about to do some unsavory things with that X95 😉

  • GI

    This rifle would not get the hate that it does if it were priced according to its actual quality. This is a $1000 rifle at best, especially when you consider that you have to spend $400 on a trigger, and $130 on a rail so you can use BUIS at normal height.

    But $1700 for an extremely mediocre plastic rifle? Caveat emptor.

  • Sunshine_Shooter

    Here’s what I got from the video: Even though the X95 may only be capable of 2 – 2.5 MoA, that’s still only 6 or 7 inches at 300 yards. Some people can shoot tiny groups at or below 100 yards, but almost no one goes out and actually shoots beyond that regularly. 2 MoA will hit all but the smallest of practical targets out to several hundred yards, and demanding anything more than that leaves me wondering what your intended use is. Are you going to hunt squirrels from 200+ yards? Are you going to practice defending your home from over 800 yards? It’s nice to have a gun that can print tiny groups on demand, and that is a valid concern for certain guns in certain roles, but none that the Tavor rifles are designed for. /end rant.

  • Smith

    Reliability should be the priority. Accuracy on a very well engineered and manufactured weapon, such as the IWI Tavor X95, depends primarily on the shooter and application; if you are shooting long range, that is another ball game, so use the correct tool for the job.

    My X95 is a pleasure to shoot, ergonomics are great, it is a professional weapon and means business; rest assured that it provides “to hell and back” reliability and it is quite deadly even at a few hundred yards if you practice.