BREAKING: Court Rules H&K NOT AT FAULT for G36 Rifle Controversy; Owes German Gov’t No Compensation

bundeswehr-G36-german-defense-budget-GETTY-

In the ongoing controversy about the G36 assault rifle, German gunmaker Heckler & Koch have won a major victory against the German federal government, as the Koblenz court where the company’s lawsuit against the government was tried ruled that the company was at no fault for the G36’s design. Reuters reports:

A German court ruled on Friday that the government has no right to compensation from Heckler & Koch (IPO-HIK.L) for what Berlin has said were faulty assault rifles, handing a victory to the gunmaker.

Berlin has said that the G36 rifle, which is standard issue for militaries across the globe and has been used by the German army for nearly 20 years, does not shoot straight in hot weather or when it heats up through constant firing.

The first suggestions that the gun might be faulty date back to April 2010, when 32 Bundeswehr paratroopers were ambushed by Taliban fighters in northern Afghanistan. Three German soldiers were killed in a nine-hour firefight. The G36 was reported to have overheated, forcing the Germans to retreat.

Berlin, which has bought about 180,000 of the rifles since 1996, eventually decided to replace the G36 as the German army’s standard rifle from 2019 and sought compensation for some rifles it had received from Heckler & Koch.

Heckler & Koch said the rifles it had delivered complied with the specifications agreed with the government in 1996.

While the court did not comment in its ruling on whether the rifles shoot straight when they heat up, it said that they met the specifications set out in the purchase contracts. The rifles had also passed the quality and acceptance testing laid out in the contracts, it said.

The case centered not on whether the G36 experienced point of impact changes in extreme conditions, but rather whether the rifle met the initial requirements laid out by the German government during its development. The court, which favored Heckler & Koch’s case as early as June, ruled that the rifle did meet these requirements, and that therefore the company owed no compensation to the German government.

Both Heckler & Koch and the German defense ministry made statements on the court decision:

Germany’s defence ministry said it would appeal against Friday’s ruling, depending on the reasons given by the court.

“If the court bases today’s decision on the same dubious arguments as it gave before the summer, then the relevant government office will appeal,” a ministry spokesman said.

Heckler & Koch said it would not comment on the actions of its customers but affirmed that it plans to take part in the government’s tender for a new supply contract, expected to be awarded in 2018.

“We make the world’s best assault rifle. Many armies in the western world use our weapons. We are already looking forward to the German army’s assault rifle tender, in which we will again prove our performance,” the company said in a statement.

Starting last year, the company has come under fire for the alleged problems with the G36 rifle, but now seems poised to make a comeback. In June, H&K won another court battle against the German government, in that case about sales of the tooling needed to make G36 rifles to Saudi Arabia. Just this past week, H&K reportedly won the French Army contract to replace the aging FAMAS rifle, although that has not yet been confirmed.

 

Thanks to Axel for the tip!



Nathaniel F

Nathaniel is a history enthusiast and firearms hobbyist whose primary interest lies in military small arms technological developments beginning with the smokeless powder era. In addition to contributing to The Firearm Blog, he runs 196,800 Revolutions Per Minute, a blog devoted to modern small arms design and theory. He can be reached via email at nathaniel.f@staff.thefirearmblog.com.


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  • S. Cautela

    You can experience point of impact changes when a rifle barrel is severely overheated?… Is this a news flash to anybody? Problems with accuracy/functionality when overheated is not particular to the G36. Read up on The Battle of Wanat and hear similar complaints about the M4… I’m not bashing either weapon system, but there’s a reason why weapon specs list both cyclic and sustained fire.

    • DW

      The problem allegedly was that G36 sufferes from POI shift before other rifles due to steel trunnion mated to plastic, or at least subpar plastic. TFB did some testing and found no evidence of this on a Export model G36k.

      • Renato H. M. de Oliveira

        In any case, the G36 was used in conditions not specified in the original contract.

        Every manufacturer says you the limits of its products, and if you exceed them, you’re on your own if the product fails.

        Any weapon will fail in a determined conditions set. The G36 was designed to be as light as possible in the support fire version, thus meaning that the rifle would be even lighter. Ironically enough, the MG36 was never adopted as expected.

        The G36 was meant to be used if Cold War became Hot. That is, European conditions and temperatures. The ammo load specified was such that the weapon wouldn’t cook off or malfunction in any way.

        But today you have soldiers carrying way more ammo than specified in the original bidding, and fighting in deserts, condition also not specified in the past.

        It’s like suing because a mountain bike wasn’t good for triathlon. Sure, it can be used for that, but it wasn’t what it was made for.

      • 11b

        Well, on their G36 anyways. That’s anecdotal; it’s only one data point. Not saying TFB was wrong or anything but a large study would have to be done to prove anything

        • UnrepentantLib

          Really, the only way to come to a definitive conclusion would be to track down the actual rifles used in the incident and test them.

          • CommonSense23

            There is no debate the rifles have POI shift. Thats been confirmed by Germany.

          • Jack Frost

            It’s been confirmed by the people demanding confirmations. This reminds me of the old joke about “We’ve investigated ourselves and found ourselves innocent of any wrongdoing.”

      • Reef Blastbody

        TFB didn’t run anywhere near enough ammo through the rifle to induce a POI shift. The description of the video alludes to claims from the German government of POI shifts after as few as 4 magazines run through on full auto. I’m not sure where he got that from. I think in the 9 hour firefight that was referenced, that the Bundeswehr soldiers put quite a bit more than that through them without allowing the weapons to cool off.

        Alex’s video from April of last year is basically a “let’s watch me and Patrick shoot this dealer sample G36KE” and take a few readings with an IR thermometer and notice how there wasn’t any POI shift that we could discern.

        About as scientific as Tim Harmsen’s original VP9 mud puddle dunk test. Interesting to watch for entertainment, but nothing resembling an actual test.

      • Gecko9mm

        Yes, export model. I thought the belief is the alleged material change used in the contract G36 of issue are the, well, issue.

    • 11b

      Geez, your rifle overheated in a 9 hour firefight? No crap Sherlock! They’d better bring liquid nitrogen next time to keep the barrels cool.

      • iksnilol

        I say we bring back water cooled barrels.

        • vwVwwVwv

          what about light sabres?

          • James Kachman

            Adding provision for a changeable barrel adds weight, complexity, and cost; it transforms your service rifle/carbine into a light machine gun. Coincidentally, LMGs have the role of sustained automatic fire within a squad. *Any* weapon designed as the rifleman’s shoulder rifle will overheat if you’re putting it through the course of fire these people are dealing with. Things like the M4A1’s heavier barrel are helpful, absolutely, but you’re still only going to get so much out of a closed-bolt, magazine fed, air cooled rifle.

          • vwVwwVwv

            agree.
            the Steier AUG’s have barrale change capabilitys
            but its not the only solution. if you want more firepower,
            you must first of all demand from the industry.

    • Joshua

      Instead of using Wanat as an experiment you should read up on Kamdesh.

      Multiple soldiers went on record stating they expended 40+ magazines during that firefight with no issues.

      • iksnilol

        I doubt they didn’t experience lack of precision due to barrels heating up. Happens to all guns eventually.

        What distances was that fight at? Maybe increased spread isn’t noticed at shorter ranges?

        • Joshua

          It varied. It started at range of 300M+ however eventually the insurgents breached the wire and it became CQB.

          Air support was severly limited due to an attack on OP fristche limiting air support.

          It was estimated to be 300+ insurgents vs the 60 us soldiers and 2 Latvian soldiers at COP Keating.

        • CommonSense23

          There is a difference between normal loss of precision and what the G36 was experiencing.

          • iksnilol

            But nobody has been able to reproduce it, how’s that then?

          • CommonSense23

            The German government did. This whole case wasn’t won cause the gun didn’t lose precision. It was won cause technically it met all requirements.

          • Jack Frost

            A. Flaw here is that of course the German government did, they German government wants compensation for it. They’ve a motivation to very much find it reproducible. Has any independent venture been able to do so?

            B. Even if they could, this isn’t a ‘technically met all the requirements,’ it’s literally a ‘met all the requirements.’ They fulfilled their contract obligations. Even IF they do do this, you can’t hold someone accountable for somehow failing when they met all the requirements of the contract. Unless the contract stipulated that this supposed failure was not to be a thing, then what can they argue?

            The only question that matters is did HK fulfill the ends of their contract? If so, what legal OR ethical claims can anyone make against them?

            “But the guns they sold may have failed under extreme conditions and caused folks to die!”

            Ok, sure, and that sucks, but that doesn’t justify an attempt to be vindictive against the company that sold you the product based on everything you asked it to be.

          • CommonSense23

            Yes it’s been confirmed multiple times that the German G36s experienced massive POI shift. But as you said HKs product met all requirements. But a lot of people are reading this as the guns didn’t have the massive POI shift. And the guns weren’t experiencing these issues in extreme conditions.

    • Big Daddy

      An infantry squad needs firepower and that means LMGs in 7.62 NATO with barrel changes. Aim and shoot let the SAW gunner do his job. Everybody has a job just like a sports team. Good battlefield leadership and training. Nobody with an M4 or G36 should be firing at a rate that high if the other guys are doing their jobs. When your enemy starts falling like flies because you actually aimed and killed or put that guy down you see how fast they disperse. It takes training and discipline to pick a target, aim, fire and hit that target let the SAW and Grenadiers do their job.

  • GD Ajax

    1996 requirements? WTF? That means the German Army is still using a rifle and combat doctrine too outdated for both current warfare and any future battles they could encounter in this decade and the next.

    • Renato H. M. de Oliveira

      Replacing the main assault rifle army-wise isn’t so simple.

      Compare to the US Army, who is using AR15-style rifles since 1964.

      No weapon is perfect. Compromises must be made. The G36 was designed to be the lightest fire support automatic rifle available, with homeland defense in a Cold War-like scenario. The fire support version, the MG36, was never adopted as planned though.

      The G36 is a great rifle – but it wasn’t designed with 9-hour long desert fighting in mind. It did fail, just like the M4 and others in Wanat. Not their fault, it wasn’t what they were designed for.

      • GD Ajax

        They could have bought newer versions of the G36 that HK exported to other European armed forces but for some reason failed too. The old G36 was also used for the roles Light Machine Guns and DMRs would have been better for. Which is just mindbogglingly stupid.

        So the Germany Army can be blamed for not purchasing an up to date version of their rifle and obsolete training/combat doctrine(aka as you stated had a Cold War mindset). Along with not buying firearms more suited to the modern battlefield along side a new version of the G36.

        By the time the Bundeswehr discovered the old version of the G36 had accuracy and heat problems. New G36s, MG4s, MG5s and M27s were in production for at least to four/five years.
        While the HK417 was almost a decade old. They only adopted the G28 variant three years ago. The brass of the Germany military should obviously have bought more of them. There is a reason most NATO nations have adopted the combined arms strategy.

        • Renato H. M. de Oliveira

          Now I must agree with you 120%.
          Armies are usually too slow to adopt new technologies in some areas, and too fast in others.
          The G36 brouhaha isn’t an HK fiasco – it’s a Bundeswehr one.

          • vwVwwVwv

            i live not far from calw, whre the german special forces KSK is
            located, there are no bad words to hear about the G36,
            they rather have problems with other eqipment
            and the needs for the politicaly wanted
            female soldiers. the kurds cant
            get enough of them.

          • DataMatters

            What they say in public and what they say in private are two different things. How can a rifle with a known wandering zero issue not be of concern to anyone in the special forces? You know–people who might actually be shot at and have to shoot back?

          • vwVwwVwv

            it has no wandering zero, it is a fine gun, the whol german army
            tells you, baltic states tested and orderd it, saudiarabia is building a
            fabrication plant, turky payd for liceses….
            the gun is OK, it is the hate of some
            political grups that HK
            delivers guns
            in to regions of crisis by selling out licenses, mexico i think has
            a plant to. they hardly killed HK in 1990 with canseling the
            G11 program, what was a sify compared to modern guns.
            HK was bancrupted with this, fell in to hands of
            british investors, came somhow on the knees and now the next
            idiotic socialist atack.

            if you execute your swordsmith you will have no one to make swords,
            the enemy will be hapy, HK has great ingenuity, they produce
            hi quality and sometimes are the only one who
            get a job done. this is political not
            an gun problem.

          • Blue Centurion

            HK will not die as we know it…it will survive by moving out of Germany to the United States. This is going to be the future of HK especially in manufacturing civilian arms.

          • vwVwwVwv

            if the mess with the rapefugees continues the 700 or so workers of HK will be ready to join in, moveing.

          • Herbmiester

            The rifle does not have a wandering zero, that is incorrect.

      • Joshua

        Battle of Kamdesh…research it.

        • Blue Centurion

          What about it?

          • iksnilol

            I heard there was gun violence there.

      • DataMatters

        If you also read the specs, it was considered a design feature for the rifle to have a limited useful lifespan. The political aspect of this design is that they didn’t really want a durable rifle and require that when the service life is reached they end up back at a “Captain Crunch” type of machine to be recycled or whatever. It was all about control and HK was like “no problem” knowing they could sell a lot more rifles this way.

  • Mike C

    “The case centered not on whether the G36 experienced point of impact changes in extreme conditions, but rather whether the rifle met the initial requirements laid out by the German government during its development.”

    Translates from German to:
    “It’s not our fault that our rifle sucks and we hate you!”

    #HKnevermelts

    • Tritro29

      If you ask for a donkey and pay donkey money, you shouldn’t compete when that donkey gets raped at the races.

      German demands in 1995 were met, and even some. Now they want 1995 rifles to meet 2010 rifles…might be somewhat subpar on that.

      • John

        Donkey rape is no laughing matter! It’s one of the scourges that Trump will fix when he becomes El Presidente’ of Mexico.

        Now if they could only make it illegal in South Carolina, I would feel a lot better.

    • Malthrak

      Hrm, it’s more “You wanted a knife, we gave you a knife, you used it as a prybar, and are now mad that it broke”.

      The German government gave H&K specifications. H&K delivered a product to those specifications. That it failed when used outside of those specifications is not H&K’s fault if it did truly fail, it’s the fault of the German government for not delivering specifications that matched potential usage cases.

  • Anonymoose

    The only thing they owe them is a new contract for 416s. lololololol

    • vwVwwVwv

      whats lol, its realy the truth, there is no competitor.

    • Black Dots

      This post is the correct post.

    • John

      And if the 416s break, a whole lot of angry customers will come calling. They better be up to their claims.

    • lowell houser

      Don’t know about that. MrGunsandGear posted a video with an armorer at Battlefield Las Vegas. Their rifles average about 20,000 rounds a month on full auto. In other words just keeping them running is a full time job for multiple people. He said that all the 1911s regardless of manufacturer break in exactly the same ways. He said that it’s common of ARs to shear off a locking lug or two under 20,000 rounds, presumably also the 416s because there’s only so much you can due with metallurgy if the design itself is weak. He also said that the SCARs so far haven’t broke. They’ve replaced the barrels and recoil springs, and that’s it. So whatever else the competition measures, I wouldn’t count out the SCAR.

      Disclaimer: I will never buy a SCAR. Or a 416. I’m something of an ACR fanboy. I am also in process of prototyping an AR18 derivative rifle specifically targeted at the 80% builders market, as an amateur as I am not an engineer, just a tinkerer.

      • That would be the height or irony if France adopted the 416 and Germany adopted the SCAR.

        • Sp92

          Why? Isn’t the SCAR a Belgian gun manufactured in South Carolina?

          • James Kachman

            It’d be ironic since both France and Germany would be adopting rifles made outside their borders.

            And the SC plant is for the USA branch of FN, guns going elsewhere are generally made in Liege. (And I think many of the FN guns in the US are partially made in Liege)

          • buzzman1

            They are fully made in Belgium and modified for civilian sale in Columbia SC

          • buzzman1

            SCARs are made in Belgium, exported to the US and then altered for the civilian market in Columbia SC.

      • n0truscotsman

        what he had to say about Colts was pretty vetting for those who own them.

      • Core

        The 416 was not an option because the barrels are too expensive to rebuild. If I remember correctly the bolts held up well, it boiled down to barrel replacement cost. For a large government contract this wouldn’t be an issue.

    • Core

      I know, it’s hilarious. I wonder how this is going to effect the next contract process? From what I’ve read HK has some of the best rifles to offer between the 416/IAR ect. It would be funny if they switched to the SCAR H/L. Personally I would rather have a Colt made right here in the good ole USA. I think we should produce all of our equipment in domestic facilities, including components, and powders. We never know what the future holds, why build dependence on our most sensitive technology? I also believe we should create constitutional laws that prevent government from banning components that are used by our military.

  • vwVwwVwv

    when idiots of all female genders runn a country loosing black berrys and wearing skirts
    you culd sent a kid 1 year to colage with the money, you get such things.
    but dont laugh america see your future leaders.

    • Lowe0

      This is a blog about guns. A gun doesn’t care if it’s held by a man or a woman; it works or it doesn’t, is accurate or not, regardless of your gender politics nonsense.

      • vwVwwVwv

        now if you dont understand you can ask, but you are the smart guy, so
        now i will not explain to you what HK is in the german military-strategic
        complex and how much politics wanted to destroy HK.
        go find out by yourself and simply let
        a woman fire an Machinegun
        standing.
        you are right man and woman are equal, we have seen it last new year
        in kolone germany how equal we are and how much
        generalfeldmarschal & warminister
        von der lyen is able to run
        her ministry. 😛

        • AC97

          Are you done talking? Nobody cares.

        • iksnilol

          So take an inexperienced person and let them fire a machine gun? Doesn’t matter whether you have an Y chromosome, if you don’t know what you’re doing you’re going to have a bad time.

          • vwVwwVwv

            this is not the question, on this i agree as long the double x chromosoms have not to carry a .50 Browning
            Machinegun or a similar Sniper Rifle.

            when it comes to fight they are rather a problem than a solution.
            look if the current democrat wuld be a man, with this scandals
            he wuld sit in jail, if merkel wuld be a man europe
            wuldent break in peaces, man dont do this,
            evan obama dident dear it.
            they are not teritorial.

            no responsibility, no instinkt to face danger, rather to get along.
            a person like von der lyan you cant explain what it means
            to be capable to defend themself with own equipment.

            remember how it turned out for georgia and ukraina to give
            up on nuklear weapons in return of a paper?

            i know i am a raceist sexist homophobe who deserves to
            be executed and all the program, just befor you
            do it, think about it, wuld you feel well
            if your son wuld lead 15 girls
            in to war vs isis?

            PS.: i met my whife in army, my big girl finished service,
            my small one is currently recrut.

          • iksnilol

            So the female members in your family are military/ex-military and that’s a good thing but women aren’t supposed to be in the military.

            You’re being a bit contradicting.

            Regarding girls against ISIS, I dunno, the Kurds seemingly don’t have a problem with it. Considering they’ve killed more ISIS than I or you have (what with our superior Y chromosme and all) I think it presents no issue.

          • vwVwwVwv

            I know that it looks contradicting.
            my eldest son is, my smallest will be, no choise.
            Kurds have no escape, my family moved to israel, when
            i am done with my stuff here, i will move to.
            israeli woman have to serve 2 jears
            out of no choise.
            when you have nothing left you take what you have,
            russians used female batalions in ww2,
            when germans got them it
            was tragic.

            strategic thinking, killing instinct, territorial responsibilyty,
            agressive instinkts when atacked, ready to march
            in to hell…. lots of trouble female
            leaders have brought.
            we have in the hit on HK an example, in merkels rapefugesm,
            in molegreenys cruying before the arab league, in
            hillerys gravejards….

            you are less likely to be killed by a shark than hillery klinton. LOL

            PS.: what did Harambe knew about Hillery?

          • vwVwwVwv

            now its enough politics, i am sorry but i like HK.

    • DataMatters

      Ignorance is how we lose this country.

    • John

      At the same time, a lot of shooters proclaimed Direct Inpingement and the AR-15 an outdated design, only to be embarrassing into silence when AK-pattern rifles and Israeli rifles and European rifles fail testing while the AR-15 keeps chugging along.

      Don’t laugh America, meet your future generals.

      • vwVwwVwv

        remember the good old 1911, how many times they declared it dead?
        i had an m16 in the IDF, i hated to clean it but
        loved to carry and shoot it.

  • vwVwwVwv

    this is the current war minister of germany, generalfeldmarshall von der lyen.
    http://www.solidaritaet-mit-joerg-tauss.de/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/leyen2.jpg

  • vwVwwVwv
    • Black Dots

      The defense minister of Sweden is now a dude, but point taken.

      • vwVwwVwv

        i like the picture, our societys went thru a Puxxxyficationproces,
        if man dont end it we will soon be history.

      • As in she was replaced by a dude or she got a sex change operation? It is Sweden we’re talking about after all.

        • Big Daddy

          Was thinkin’ same thing.

      • John

        Dude looks like a lady?

    • John

      If you think women can’t be completely ruthless….you’ve never dated one.

      • A bearded being from beyond ti

        I wouldn’t be particularity surprised if he hadn’t.

      • Lascivious Joy Monkey

        So true my friend so true…LMAO

      • vwVwwVwv

        i am father of 4. two girls and boys,
        womans first reaction is?
        remember colone?

        you sure have examples of thees ruthless woman.
        my whife and her girlfriends, ,{when we man
        are watching football (soccer) with
        some beer…} play the strong rothless, they agree that
        they will conquer the world and kick the man in the bxxxxs

        till one of us says that there is a spider on ones hair or a bee,
        than they become ruthless.

        i love woman, but leader of state or warminister is a man thing.

        i can’t understand why man have opressed woman for so long,
        may be it has proven to be successful?

        they are wonderful, they make me paying two M4’s for
        things they tell me thees are shoes,
        of curse they are no shoes, but i evan
        dont think….

        god made man a woman, and almost died laughing about us till now…

        • gusto

          Bullshit

          • vwVwwVwv

            snowflake 🙂

        • Gus Butts

          The only thing I managed to make out of your entire comment is something about spiders and bees in women’s hair.

          • vwVwwVwv

            i cant help you, its not easy to pack this in words.
            may be someon once will tell you the same in beter english.

        • LibertyDwells

          Can we get a Gibberish-to-English translator over here, please? Thx.

          • int19h

            Maybe he could ask his wife to proofread…

        • John

          vvWvvvwVeex – I completely agree!!! The women who call shoes when they mean to say things are not the strong of the world! We need the men to go far into night shoots but not to the robber who might call for credit card use on a Tuesday!!! LOLXR!

    • CavScout

      Clearly the women were appointed by poltics alone. Just like some of ours in the US gov.

  • Black Dots

    Customer: “Hi, yeah…this three season tent I bought 20 years ago to camp in the summer has been great. The thing is I’m camping in winters now, and this isn’t working. Can I have my money back?”
    REI Cashier: “Huh?”

    • What I love about REI is that there’s a good chance you’d get a refund.

      I went backpacking for 3 months with a bag I bought from them. Came back to the US, went to REI and told them that the bag carried like a turtle shell and was terrible in mass transit (really, things that I should have known) and they returned it with no questions asked.

      Absolutely love REI and will always shop there.

      • Black Dots

        Yeah, they’re great. I probably should have added to my conversation above that the REI cashier would have first asked, “Are you a member?”

  • guest

    Not that kicking a beaten man who’s already down on the ground in a fetus position is very honorable, but none the less:
    AK does not have such issues. In fact it never suffered any real controversies especially in regards to reliability or quality, but the exact opposite – was praised as the legendary assault rifle not trough PR-spins but trough experience with it in countless battles. So much so that ALL mofifications, upgrades etc offer some advantages at best – and on average are marginal updates of what is already “rifle is fine”. And a 1945/46 design, at that!

    • Reef Blastbody

      LOL at the last sentence. Yeah, as if the Russian military adopting M4 style stocks, picatinny rails, foregrips, optics, aperture sights on the end of the receiver, hell, even a pistol grip with a storage compartment on the AK-400 and other rifles in their catalog.

      And let’s not forget the new, and I’ll give them due credit, very ingenious recoil mitigating system on the AK-107.

      The current production from Kalashnikov these days only share some outward cosmetic similarities with the original AK-47. Which, incidentally, “borrowed” heavily from the Garand, STG-44 and others.

      • guest

        I know americans want to have some spotlight and attention for AK as being “partly Garand”, but besides that myth in american-written books it stops about as soon as it began, and buried completely when compared with actual pre-acceptance AK prototypes (especially the ’45 model), and the relevance to STG-44 yeah, heard that one before. Never stuck.

        • The AK is an amalgamation of a bunch of different designs, but there is definitely Garand DNA in it. Kalashnikov even acknowledges Garand as one of his biggest influences.

          http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/05/05/rifle-paternity-test-pinning-down-the-m1-garands-influence-on-the-ak/

          • Tritro29

            The fact that the Ak borrows from a system it was supposed to beat is not to be contested, yet you know by now the AK as it was designed was more than borrowing from the Garand (Tokarev, Bulkin, Korovin). It’s always funny that people take from a system what matters to them.

            As a matter of fact the AK was an average system only enduring because at this point it’s dirt-cheap to manufacture maintain and train your soldiers on.

            The fact is that the US never took much interest in the AK system although it had obtained it since 1956 (at least).

            For a copy-pattern or influence the Garand was ditched as fast as it had been inducted.

        • iksnilol

          I’d say there’s more Garand than STG in the AK.

          But that requires knowing how the bloody thing works to understand.

        • Reef Blastbody

          Whatever.

      • Jerry

        AK & STG-44 internals… I don’t see the the similarities.

    • vwVwwVwv

      i loved to fight the AK, its the rason i am here, the AK guys
      with their 72 year old virgin.

  • Edohiguma

    Stories I heard include how the G36 basically has to be resighted every time you bump it into something.

    Once again the AUG triumphs. Metal optics. You can beat someone to death with those and then shoot just fine.

  • Joseph Goins

    I said this would happen a while back. The military spec’d out the rifle to fight in frozen, muddy Europe not hot-as-balls Iraq and Afghanistan. This will be the catalyst for adopting the 416.

  • DataMatters

    They knew it was a POS when they bought it! The whole concept was to engineer a rifle with a limited service life so that they would not fall into the hands of third worlders a la the AK pattern rifles. You really think Germans can’t design a rifle that lasts?

    • vwVwwVwv

      every month you see a german chanal lamenting about 3 worlders useing G3’s.

      • DIR911911 .

        then they should sell surplus rifles to citizens . . . problem solved

        • RStandal

          The German people are unarmed and the goverment plans on keeping it that way.

  • vwVwwVwv

    remember this?

  • Evan

    This type of crap is why SIG SAUER left Germany and moved to the US. IIRC, their HQ was SWAT raided, millions of documents seized, and they’re still waiting for the German Government to press charges or announce no wrong doing.
    Over some P226s sold to the US, which ended up in Columbia, and again IIRC, the US government had documentation to prove that they were part of a legal sale.

  • Will

    I’m not up to date on this issue.
    Is Germany the only country experiencing problems with point of impact with overheated G36s or have other countries voiced the same concern?

    • Renato H. M. de Oliveira

      Other G36s were made to different specs, and apparently nobody else complained.

  • Herbmiester

    I visited the HK factory a few months ago to research an article for the Magazine I write for. I had an in depth response from HK on this and what interesting was not just the fact that the general requirements were changed from the original specifications but also that when the test was carried with one manufacturers 5.56 round the failures occurred, however when the test was run using the other officially used 5.56 round from another manufacturer all rounds were on target. To be clear both manufacturers make 5.56 for the German Army but one uses a different process for manufacturing the projectile.

    • That’s very interesting. Did they elaborate on what about that one manufacturer’s 5.56 load caused the POI shift under heat?

      • Herbmiester

        Yes they said it was a jacket issue; when the barrel was overheated the jacket could slip on the core.

  • IndyToddrick

    Why did it take them 20 years to figure out the barrel is (apparently) too thin? I cannot even grasp that. I know the Germans avoided armed conflict, since WW2, but did they–or HK, or anybody–seriously not fire these guns enough at the range enough to notice?

    • Herbmiester

      HK built the rifles to a specification, end of story. The exact same thing can be said of the M4.

      • Which, coincidentally, was later upgraded to a heavier barrel profile.

        • Herbmiester

          Which the German Govt did not choose to do, no fault of HK.

  • Chi Wai Shum

    Not really surprised. HK has used this (G36 was up to German army spec) as their defense all along.

  • Fox Hunter

    Hk should sell ump pistols in the States, .45 and .40.

  • vwVwwVwv
  • buzzman1

    Check the rifles to see if they ACTUALLY met contract specs. If they did not then H&K is royally screwed. If they did meet specs there is nothing the German gov’t can do. Personally I cant believe any company/army would put a pencil thin barrel on an automatic rifle and not expect it to warp when heated.

  • FloridaFits

    Since H&K is one entity, it is incorrect to refer to them as “have” rather than has. We see more and more of such shenanigans as standards dwindle.

  • Rollin Shultz

    Sounds like Germany needs to revise their training procedures. All of the fighters should know the limits of their weapons and act accordingly by having their men work in tiers. group one shoots for a while then group two and back again. They also need to become ammo misers, not salvo launchers. The ammo companies must love these guys almost as much as they do the Jihadis.

  • itsmefool

    Whew…now I can sleep at night!

  • Jackson Andrew Lewis

    germany is actually looking for a new rifle?………… all rifles have issues when they heat up……. heck ar15s do…..enfeilds do…. ak series do…..