BREAKING: Latest ATF Move Could Cause Ammunition Price Spike Due To Component Reclassification

ATF

Our friends at All Outdoor.com report that just recently the ATF sent out their monthly explosives industry newsletter detailing a new take on the legalities regarding transporting “wetted” nitrocellulose, a compound used in the production of smokeless powder, stating that wetting the nitrocellulose no longer made it a non-explosive and it would be subject to increased regulation.

What this means for the ammunition industry is largely unknown at this time. There is speculation as always that the price of ammunition will go through the roof, but without knowing more about the new ruling and what new hoops manufacturers will have to jump through any speculation is better received from a set of discount tarot cards.

Sadly if the speculators are correct about ammunition costs exploding (heh, pun intended) not only will the average purchaser of loaded ammunition be affected, but also the reloader who normally misses out on this sort of fun. Even the DOD will be hit pretty hard by the new ruling, after all, the ammunition plants that supply the military also supply a good majority of civilian shooters.

My educated guess is that this will not affect anything, the ATF would have to be out of their gourd to make such a sweeping change without notifying large ammunition manufacturers.

Below is the excerpt from the ATF newsletter detailing the new opinion:

ATF was recently asked about the status of nitrocellulose under the Federal explosives laws and regulations. “Nitrocellulose explosive” is on ATF’s List of Explosive Materials. ATF has determined that nitrocellulose containing greater than 12.6 percent nitrogen is a high explosive under 27 CFR, Part 555 (nitrocellulose containing 12.6 percent or less nitrogen is generally not an explosive material under Part 555). Therefore, it must be stored in a type 1 or type 2 magazine. We are aware that the U.S. Department of Transportation may assign a nonexplosive classification to nitrocellulose when it has been wetted with water or alcohol. This is based, in part, on the diminished likelihood of explosion in a transportation accident. Because the nitrocellulose retains its explosive characteristics when the water or alcohol is removed, the wetted nitrocellulose remains a nitrocellulose explosive, subject to the licensing, safety and security requirements of the Federal explosives regulations. However, based upon the diminished likelihood of wetted nitrocellulose exploding, ATF will consider variance requests to store the wetted material under an alternative arrangement.

Hat tip to our friends over at Ammoland and All Outdoor.com



Patrick R

Patrick is a Senior Writer for The Firearm Blog and works in the shooting sports industry. He is an avid recreational shooter and a verified gun nerd. With a lifelong passion for shooting, he has a love for all types of firearms, especially handguns and the AR-15 platform. Patrick may be contacted at tfbpatrick@gmail.com.

The above post is my opinion and does not reflect the views of any company or organization.


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  • Marvin

    Let the Hoarding Hysteria begin!!!!!!!! AMMOGEDDON 2016!!

  • Mike N.

    Yeah, but who still makes smokeless powder here in the US? Only one I know of is St. Marks, FKA Olin/Winchester, in Florida, and as the source for Uncle Sam, I don’t think they’re too worried. I don’t know anyone who still makes stick powder here in the USA. Except for H355 and a few other ball powders made at St. Marks, most Hodgdon is imported from ADI in Australia, IMR is mostly from Canada, Alliant is mostly Bofors or other European sources, likewise Accurate and Ramshot. Vihtavouri is Finnish.

    • Chris

      Might make components more difficult to keep in a sports and outdoor type of store for sale …limits on quantity stored in one location , Magazine construction standards etc.
      More far fetched I could actually see home inspections of reloaders
      ( home ammunition manufacturers ) to establish the safe storage of your “explosives” ! Then maybe yearly licensing and inspections of your “Explosives Storage facility ” by local fire department , hazmat restrictions …etc….?It is very difficult to obtain Black Powder in some areas
      because of its ” High Explosives ” classification !

      • RocketScientist

        Just to be clear, the regs on actual completed manufactured gunpowder haven’t changed. The change applies only to nitrocellulose, a COMPONENT used by manufacturers of gunpowder. Your local sporting goods store, gun shop, reloading supplier, reloader or hobbyist would not have any nitrocellulose in their possession.

        • Chris

          Yep ,I just hope they don’t follow themselves down the rabbit hole and mess with the classification of our component powders , we already have some local agencies upset with the current situation with them

          • Ken

            They could, but that would require a change in federal law by Congress, not regulatory rule making by an executive agency.

          • James Elsea

            Or Obama could just executive order it thru.

          • Ken

            He can physically do it, but a law can’t simply be EO’d away. That’s for Congress to do.

      • jcitizen

        I used to have an explosive license – not one BATF agent came to inspect my facilities for the 10 years I had that license.

        • Bill

          WHAT? It’s the ATF, they’ve got like 28 guys just watching me, waiting for me to shoulder my SIG brace. Just ask anybody.

          • jcitizen

            HA! Okay Bill! 😀

    • squareWave

      Is there anything made in this country anymore?

      • James Elsea

        Dam little.!

      • criterionbarrels

        They’re making match-grade rifle barrels about 25 feet away from where I’m typing this reply.

      • Ben Pottinger

        We are actually the second largest manufacturing economy on the planet. We just tend to concentrate our manufacturing on complex products while less developed nations tend to manufacturer the “base” components. The biggest reason the manufacturing sector feels like it’s in decline is because of effecency and robotics. Far less human labor is needed in the process so there are far less jobs (especially low skill jobs) in the sector then there used to be. I’m a firm believer in capitalism but even I believe it will eventually stop working and need replaced. Probably not in my lifetime. Eventually robotics will become so advanced that the robots will be able to make the robots that make the robots. Once it’s to the point that the only labor needed is creative labor to design new products or new manufacturing methods a huge portion of society will no longer be needed for labor and from a purely capitalist perspective will have no value. It’s like Star Trek, once you can freely convert matter to energy and energy to matter and just “print” food from rocks and dirt unskilled labor would instantly be pointless.

        Anyway, way off track. TLDR: we are the second largest manufacturing economy on the planet.

  • Don Ward

    WEESA ALL GONNA DIE!!!!!!!

    • Amplified Heat

      Can it, Jar-Jar!

      • jcitizen

        HA!

    • S. Plankenberg

      We’ll see your attitude change when you start nearing the term ” Madam President ” on the news.

      • wzrd1

        Yeah, because we have an imperial system, no legislature at all, right?

        • S. Plankenberg

          Well, in a word, YES.

          The spineless Rebumblicans in Congress have abdicated most of their powers and responsibilities to Obamus. The Democrats have done the same; not out of fear, but out of support for his policies.
          Since the early years of the twentieth century up to now, Democrats have had a sort of fantasy love-fest with dictators and various foreign ” strong men ” autocrats running other countries, and are more than happy to have one of those types running ours now.

          In your own sarcastic way, you are more right than you know.

  • Shinypartsup

    It has nothing to do with safety and everything to do with making the shooting sports more expensive, thereby limiting people exercising their Second Amendment Rights.

    • datimes

      Then the government wil just have to tax imports to ‘protect’ our manufacturer.

    • wzrd1

      Erm, 12.6% nitrogen shows the nitroglycerin content.
      Nitrocellulose is cellulose (originally, cotton), bathed in nitric and sulfuric acid, washed of acid and ground to powder. To increase its power and projection capabilities, traces of nitroglycerin are added.
      Which increases the nitrogen percentage significantly.

      So, you’re objecting to powder used by indirect fire weapons being regulated?

    • S. Plankenberg

      Well said.

  • BamBam

    Last sentence says it all. Whenever they say I don’t why…..???????????

  • Major Tom

    Welp, if only I could run for President this year, I would put an end to such buffoonery right proper quick.

  • datimes

    This is just the tried and true same old ploy of the left. When they can’t get what they want in one fell swoop they begin an incrementalism and grind away until they get the satisfactory result.

    • LouAnnWatson

      “the ATF would have to be out of their gourd to make such a sweeping change without notifying large ammunition manufacturers.” i can’t believe after eight years that people still think obama is rational and wouldn’t want to do anything he can to screw the citizenry who doesn’t worship him or receive a government check. he’s a subversive and will not stop…he doesn’t care what any of us think. he’s still got four and one half months…after the election is when the real sh!tstorm will begin.

      • Bill

        Will not stop? When’s he gonna start?

  • Stan Darsh

    Fine. Orbital ATK will send a bill quadruple the agreed upon amount to the DOD stating the price increase is due to new regulations from the ATF.

    • 11b

      Then they’ll carve out exemptions for DoD suppliers and screw civilians.

      • James

        Exactly.

      • raz-0

        IT already does. The ruling doesn’t apply to deliveries to portions of the government. Have the government “lease” your facility under contract, or at least the storage area, and any nitrocellulose that is needed for their contracts can be stored there without any new licensing, inspections, etc.

      • Realist

        A Gov’t for the Gov’t by the Gov’t.

        • jcitizen

          That’s for DAMN sure!!

    • PK

      For what it’s worth, the ATK facility near me doesn’t get hit with regulations/restrictions such as these so long as they’re under government contract. It’s a free pass when you’re a major supplier of ordnance for the military, so long as you’re observing basic safety rules.

      I wouldn’t want to be the IOI who writes up a company such as ATK… I shudder to think what would happen, above and beyond being fired.

  • Edeco

    Alright chums, let’s do this!

    • Bill

      HORDE PRIMERS NOW!!!!!

  • Joseph Goins

    I think NWA was right: “Fµçk da police.”

  • BattleshipGrey

    Hmm, new ruling from ATF…

  • Oldtrader3

    The ATF is making this up as they fly by the seat of their pants, again! All it should effect is assuring that nitrocellulose is shipped wet!

  • Amplified Heat

    Nitrocellulose is an explosive? I thought it was merely flammable. So I guess old film repositories are considered magazines? (not that those facilities should not take proper precautions for storing such a combustible substance in quantity) So I suppose practically all nitrated compounds are controlled substances of one form or another by now?

    • Don

      Storing and playing those old films is already highly regulated by the Feds. The regulations that have been put forth to even play those old films has made it almost too costly to even think about it. Projectors are required to be encased in steel cases with self contained fire extinguisher systems and employees that run those projectors are required to go to specific safety training before they can even touch the projectors. They had one of those special edition news programs on TV about the whole thing years ago.

    • lostintranslation

      Nitrate based fertiliser?

      • Chris

        Totally different than ANFO

    • Bjørn Vermo

      There is mono, bi and trinitrocellulose. It is the latter they regulate as an explosive, notice the reference to the nitrogen content. It was used in sea mines and torpedos because it would explode even if moist.

    • Chris

      Nitrocellulose is cellulose AFTER treating with Nitric acid , big difference !
      Even bigger is glycerin or glycol after careful treating with Nitric And sulfuric acids ..Did I mention CAREFUL treatments ?

    • PK

      NC is absolutely a secondary HE, as a bulk HE it’s in the same general category as flake TNT. And yes, take a look at the BATFE’s list of explosive materials and you’ll see nitrated this, that, and the other thing. I think there’s even a broad “nitrated _____” category.

  • Roy Rabbit

    I’m freaking out man!!!! Ehhh it’s over back to drinking my coffee and surfing the web.

  • Eric

    This only effects storage and licensing, which is most likely not an issue among large manufacturing plants. It does not effect transportation. It’s sort of a click bate title.

    • Chris

      It does affect personal transportation with limits on poundage in your vehicle

      • Yeah, my thought was that this might be rough on gun show sellers.

      • PK

        If you’re traveling to/from places with that much propellant, perhaps there are some basic safety precautions you should be taking, legality aside.

        • Ben Pottinger

          I thought we just decided this don’t effect finished product like smokeless powder? So you could carry 500lbs of titegroup but the limits and regulations were on wetted nitrocellulose (which titegroup clearly isn’t)?

          And on a related note, we are crazy obsessed with “safety” in this country. How many instances do we have of wetted nitrocellulose blowing up in transport or storage? Enough to warrant more regulations? Or is it simply another case of “pre-crime”? It might happen so we better regulate it before it does.

          Regulatory power has gotten totally out of control in the modern world. And this broken idea among the urban dwellers that the government is somehow their benefactor and all corporations are “Evil Corp” doesn’t help. As people who supposedly respect freedom all of us in the gun world should oppose any and all “possession” laws/regulations as invasive “pre-crime” nonsense. Think about it for a minute. We are saying you “might” do something bad with the verboten object so we will punish you ahead of time simply for having said object. All possession laws end up saying the exact same thing, you “might” do something bad or illegal with that item or after consuming that item so we will punish you for it ahead of time, just in case, even if you have no intention of doing harm with said item.

          And like a few other people in the comments have hinted at, the legislative branch is becoming less and less relevant (and they have done it to themselves by writing laws open to wide regulatory interpretation). The democrats know that all the really need to control are the executive branch (and they only need to win *ONE* election to get that entire branch of government!) and the judicial branch (and once again, they really only need to win the one election to eventually gain control of that branch of government too). Then once they have control of those two they can slowly regulate things into oblivion and if a republican controlled congress/senate object they simply punt it to the courts who rubber stamp it and end run around congress/senate.

          • Bill

            “We are saying you “might” do something bad with the verboten object so we will punish you ahead of time simply for having said object.”

            Like a kilo of heroin? A farm tanker of ammonium nitrate? Biological agents like anthrax? I’ve been involved in cases involving the first 2, and two involving bioweapons precursors occurred within an hour’s drive of where I work.

            The reason we have more regulations is because there is more stuff to regulate. The Founding Fathers didn’t have to consider stuff like genetically modified organisms, radiation safety, car bumper height, roller-coater anti-rollback brakes, and probably considered bulk amounts of rat turds in their foodstuffs as just one of those things. But, there was a surprising amount of regulation in place involving things like weights and measures, and especially transportation. The first federal LE agency was the Revenue Cutter Service, started under Washington to enforce import and export regulations. Then look at what happened when there wasn’t regulation, like in the railroad field: competing gauges of rails, and eventually predatory monopolies.

            Would you be so discompoopulated if anyone but the Dems controlled the Executive and Judicial Branches?

          • Chris

            NO ,the ATF is referring to nitrocellulose … The DOT Regulates transportation of components (reloading smokeless powder ,like ” Titegroup ” ) and a Unimaginable amount of other stuff ! Both private and commercial transport thereof …
            DOT says “no more than 25 pounds in a private vehicle ”
            I think 500 lbs is even too much for UPS !(They say 100pounds limit on one truck ?)

    • Ken

      Only affects storage and licensing of the raw material (nitrocellulose), not the finished product (smokeless powder, which is classified as an ammunition component).

  • Joe Schmo

    While this would be a very stupid move by the ATF, I wouldn’t put it past them.

    Hopefully this does not go through if it is a legit move by the ATF. And if it does, I hope it affects the DoD’s wallet to reverses it.

    • Bill

      What’s so stupid about it?

  • FarmerB

    I see it as a bureaucratic land grab by the ATF over the DOT. Basically seem to be saying that DOT have been slack in allowing wetted “explosives” a pass in transit, but now we remind them they have to play by Federal Explosive (I.e. our) rules.

  • Fox Hunter

    Please, abolish the BATF already! Please!

    • RocketScientist

      Your for got the E… BATFE. In this case the E is kind of important 🙂

      • BillC

        LMNOP

        • RocketScientist

          Buddy of mine grew up in Waco TX, said around there they refer to them as BATFERBF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, Explosives, and Really Big Fires).

          • AD_Rtr_OS

            To be fair, the fire was the responsibility of the FBI.

  • F the atf

    • Sunshine_Shooter

      Fatf?

  • Eric X Ericx

    Lingchi (凌迟; 凌遲; língchí; ling-ch’ih, alternately transliterated ling chi or leng t’che), translated variously as DEATH BY A THOUSAND TINY CUTS.

  • Pontificant

    By and large, we humans are 3-4% nitrogen (only a third of that required to be regulated by CFR 27, Part 555), but we are wetted by 65% water and various percentages of alcohol… Is this the reason we don’t explode?

    Is this the problem in the desert regions of the world; where the wetting percentages drop and the people start exploding? Maybe the BATFE should look into that and leave those of us minding our own business, alone…

    • Jeremy Nettles

      Best comment of the day. Well done, sir.

    • PK

      It all makes sense now…

    • Wil Ferch

      nitrogen is totally inert and does not explode.

      • James Elsea

        You and I know that but I am sure the government will lie and tell us otherwise. Then institute new laws and regulations to,,, PROTECT us.

        • Wil Ferch

          Yeah…but we’re talking about wetted nitrocellulose, a different animal altogether…and like some here have said, it’s a component in the very-up-front manufacturing process for ammo and maybe a host of other products. I think the article here is overall a bit of a stretch and only causes panic which is totally unnecessary…especially as it relates to “how many” US manufacturing facilities might actually be affected. Someone else here states that most of this stuff is made off-shore anyway…and hardly affects us. Here we go again….we are near another presidential election and there is panic-mongering going on…IMHO.

          • James Elsea

            You sure hit the nail on the head when you stated, “we are near another presidential election and there is panic-mongering going on.”
            Good point.

          • Wil Ferch

            Something else….whenever I see a news article that spreads fear.. I wonder…is the news article “true”…or… is there an ulterior motive? Sometimes all you gotta do is “follow the money”….follow the news agency ownership or maybe even go-up the ladder of owners….you might be surprised to find folks like Rupert Murdoch or George Soros somewhere near the top…and THEN it becomes all clear what the REAL motive for the news article might be ( not saying this is the case here…but it may be if we check). Then the Libdems have us react EXACTLY as the THINK and WISH us to act….and WE cause the shortages that we will complain about, for months, maybe years. And they then say, “Mission Accomplished”. How stupid can we all be ?….if we’re not careful.

          • wzrd1

            Save for one thing.
            Here, it’s a firearm blog, associated with a firearms and ammunition sales company.
            Yeah, follow the money and where it’ll flow with the panic buying.

          • James Elsea

            I also have been thinking along the “ulterior motive” line as you stated. We all know how a magician works. They distract you with one hand while they do something they do not want you to see with the other hand. I believe the government is doing the same thing and as you said, “How stupid can we all be.” People are falling for it.! The real thinking people will be trying to figure out what is really going on behind the scene. In the mean time the Government will also keep the bathroom issue going hot, it makes a dam good cover story, to keep our simple minds occupied.

          • glenn cheney

            You/I/We have no clue. Believe most all is home spun for your fun. They tell you what take they prefer you come away with. Capece?
            Case in point. Last week, Kerry goes to Turkey, pow-wows and 48 hrs. later, Erodan man unleases a fully armored attact on ISIS in Syria.”
            I am outraged. Smoke screen to smoke my Warrior Women, YPJ Peshmerga, and OUR GUYS are embedded with them, the KURDS just took several towns and some landmass, hard fought, wrested from ISIS, bullet by bullet. THEY are our only true alies in the theater, and what do you hear and read of this?
            Daddy B. 41 allowed Saddam to gas the Kurds, as favor to Turkey in 91′. Kurds are protecting Christians, the only ones to do so.
            This is not a political post/op-ed or editorial. It is a frank discussion of ongoing events that affect us all in one way or another.
            Indeed, Americans are among the most mis-informed, under-informed and situationally un-aware crtters on the move.
            Guess I’ll cut n’ paste this infomercial for later use, after this is deleted for what ever reason used.
            Have a nice world everybody.

          • Wil Ferch

            No harm, no foul…. we’re all OK. No doubt…the world mainstream press has a decided lefitst slant. If you look up the chain of ownership of the news agencies, you will probably see evil Leftist George Soros calling the shots….probably through any number of his New World Order (NWO) groups to shield his direct view of ownership and influence. He champions a world with no borders and free travel for anyone living everywhere. As to his character, he was a teenager in WWII Nazi camps ratting out on his fellow Jewish people….nice guy.

          • S. Plankenberg

            I don’t think it’s panic mongering.

            I think it is a ” Farewell Kiss ” to gun owners from the Obamus Administration.

          • Bill

            Stop making sense, there’s fear to monger and discord to sow.

          • glenn cheney

            <>

            THAT is the point. They found SUPPLY. Think, We have ONE domestic source? ONE? Tell me now, just howLITTLE legislation w/be necessary, to “limit” imported propellants to U.S. Guv’ment sources only?
            We are in the middle of a frozen lake in SPRING. Thin ice, very thin.

          • Shocked_and_Amazed✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Damn right

          • Doug Larsen

            Agreed. There was really no reason to publish this. Because all it will do is incite knee-jerk panic in those susceptible to same.

          • S. Plankenberg

            The REAL PANIC will be when Hillary wins the election in a few weeks, and we should all know she means business when it comes to doing anything she can to jab a sharp stick in the eyes of gun owners and manufacturers. Her Supreme Court appointments will seal the deal.

            It will make the recent ammunition shortage look like times of plenty

          • disqus_PDmXLtTxJj

            Just because some crooked liberal judge says a law is one thing, doesn’t make it so. They can twist the constitution all they want but as long as I have a copy that states….shall not be infringed… and I have breath in my lungs, than I will not be infringed upon.

          • S. Plankenberg

            Welcome to Post Constitutional America.

          • S. Plankenberg

            While your attitude is admirable and should be shared by all Americans, unfortunately it is not. Not even by a majority.
            But if and when push comes to shove, a lot of us will find ourselves definitely infringed upon when behind bars.

          • disqus_PDmXLtTxJj

            I’ll take a body bag over a 6×6 cell.

        • Humpy

          Yep

      • Don_R_P

        Wil, Are you finished making asinine statements?

        Inert (chemistry): not able to affect other chemicals when in contact with them : not chemically reactive.

        If nitrogen was inert, there would be no such thing as nitro-methane (the fuel used in dragsters) or that stuff that it was mixed with to make the variation of ANFO used to blow up the Alfred P. Murrah building… ammonium nitrate (the main ingredient in Tannerite and similar binary exploding targets).

        Not only is nitrogen not categorized as “totally inert”, it isn’t even categorized as “inert”. Diatomic nitrogen is relatively inert under ordinary conditions, but you did not indicate that you were referring to diatomic nitrogen. If you had, it wouldn’t have had anything to do with the conversation since that is not what the article was referring to. The article was specifically referring to percentages of Nitrogen in Nitrocellulose [C6H9(NO2)O5, C6H8(NO2)2O5 or C6H7(NO2)3O5]. That is why the only two times they mentioned nitrogen was in the sentence:

        “ATF has determined that nitrocellulose containing greater than 12.6 percent nitrogen is a high explosive under 27 CFR, Part 555 (nitrocellulose containing 12.6 percent or less nitrogen is generally not an explosive material under Part 555).”

        Most of the major high explosives include nitrogen in their chemical composition.

      • ManfredtheWonderDog

        Nitrogen, hydrogen – what difference does it make to the bureaucrats?

    • Longhaired Redneck

      Yeah, it’s the 🍺 beer that keeps me from exploding. I’ll have to try that one on my wife, it might just work.

      • wzrd1

        It’s always worked for me.

      • Tonya Masters

        Then again, If you hit your wife upside the head with an imported beer, is it still considered domestic violence?

    • Core

      Outstanding!

    • uncle bobedy

      I simply cannot stop laughing while reading this. You made a tough day way worth it! Thank you so much Pontificant!!!!

      • wzrd1

        As powder of 12.6% nitrogen and higher *has always* been used as an explosive, utterly unfit as propellant, yeah.
        Wikipedia has an excellent article on nitrocellulose, with good references on the nitrogen content.

        Just another panic buying inducement. It’s over multiple blogs, forcing fools to blow their hard earned money in stockpiling that which they can barely afford and won’t use in a lifetime.

    • John

      Yes, that is why we do not Spontaneously Combust. And I believe it is 70% water. 😜

    • BigR

      @disqus_LhVttSiPLj:disqus
      I wish I had said that!

    • Jayste

      we are wetted by 65% water and various percentages of alcohol….., that’s what she said!😉😜

  • PK

    This won’t really change a thing, so far as I’m aware.

  • BillC

    F.U.C.|<.T.T.H.E.B.A.T.F.E.L.M.N.O.P.

  • Bill

    You have no idea if it will effect the ammo trade, 95% of the readers have never heard of wetted nitrocellulose, but it involves the ATF, which boosts tinfoil sales.

    Clickmasturbation.

  • Some Rabbit

    This only applies to the raw material used to make smokeless powder, not the finished product. Most powder manufacturers make their own raw nitrocellulose inhouse and don’t ship it. The finished product is a propellant, not an explosive or blasting compound. It’s shipped in DOT approved containers and it’s ability to be detonated (cap sensitivity) or ‘deflagration to detonation’ is related to it’s burning speed. A fast pistol powder like Bullseye is more sensitive than a magnum rifle powder.

    Stories like this only trigger hysteria and hording that needlessly cause shortages and price rises. The ATF memo simply involves safe handling and storage. Chill people!

    • PK

      And, to be perfectly fair to this ruling, bulk NC absolutely is a bulk HE and deserves the same respect as flake TNT. It’s not exactly friendly stuff.

  • Vitsaus

    Quick everyone, panic!

  • Ebby123

    The ATF needs to die already (as an organization). What a useless cluster of bureaucrats in search of a problem.

  • dhdoyle

    Sooo. The stuff isn’t actually explosive when stored or transported wet. It only is a regulatory-defined explosive. Sounds like the correct answer is to revise the regulation to fit reality.

  • Core

    Flood the ATF with a signature petition and write your representatives. There’s big money in ammunition that will back our efforts, and I don’t see this getting much traction.. Not worried about underhanded lawmakers spinning the details, they will fail, but we have to demand accountability sooner than later. Rally the troops!

    • jcitizen

      How do we know the ammo makers aren’t behind this? It has lined their pockets for about a decade now! I’m especially pissed at the .22 cal manufacturers – they haven’t even tried to keep up with the demand, so the price will drop!! Grrr!!!

      • Core

        I would guess civilian ammunition sales are very dependent on disposable income and perceived value, in which case it would make little sense for ammunition manufacturers to fabricate additional expenses. I only buy sales and bulk, most folks who don’t shoot as much as I do, just buy sales or exactly what is needed for training and hunting purposes.

  • Simon Spero

    Of course, 27 CFR 555.207 (a)(10)- Construction of type 1 magazines provides that
    “(a) (10) Ventilation. Ventilation is to be provided to prevent dampness and heating of stored explosive materials. ”

    Ummmmm….. Wetted nitrocellulose cat is wetted

    I expect that this is mostly about security. I would expect a lot of variances and some rule making. It might also be the case that most plants have spare capacity in other magazines.

  • iowaclass

    Maybe the NRA — that direct-mail bunco operation masquerading as a political lobbying outfit — should stop obstructing efforts to abolish ATF.

  • ihatelibs

    ELIMINATE and BAN the ATF

  • David169

    I believe it will add to the cost of ammunition. I spent 28 years in drilling and blasting and from that I know it is more expensive to ship explosives than normal freight. However that on class A explosives such as dynamite at the most adds $.50 a pound depending the quantity delivered. Since this will be full container shipments to a powder manufacturer the cost will be a lot less. On the other hand wet nitrocellulose has to be properly dried to make it explode high order. Even then it is difficult. The biggest cost of powder is the energy as I was told that it takes sixty pounds of water boiled to steam to purify 1 pound of nitrocellulose.

  • papabear101

    More of the Lefts and Obama’s crap.
    They will not be happy until those of us who obey the laws are disarmed and their thugs can rob, rape and kill us without worrying about us being able to defend ourselfs
    Also it makes it easier for the government to tax us even more without worrying about us being able to protest or fight back against the IRS

  • AD_Rtr_OS

    ATF: Absolute Total F*ckheads!

  • frrst245

    shouldn’t this fall under transportation?

  • AirborneSoldier

    Regulations=control

  • glenn cheney

    What this does, is attempts to position the ATF as now regulating the previously unregulated. Too soon to test the water with their enforcement toe, BUT, if the mfg’er logistical supply of propellants is indeed mostly IMPORTED, this in my opinion, is a multi-step process to REGULATE what is HERE, but more importantly, one measure away from restrictions imports, except of course, that for the guv’ment.
    Word has it, mags and ammo . Yes, the seign net draws ever tighter. Awaken minions.

  • James W. Pfabe

    “ATF was recently asked about the status..”

    You ask stupid questions, you get stupid answers. People need to seriously stop asking things to be spelled out. If it’s not spelled out, you’re in the clear.

  • trigama

    Seeing that the government wants to over regulate in this manner, mfgs should pass the cost on to them and keep over the counter prices the way they are.

  • Peter Wall

    We the people of these United States of America, are truly blessed to have President Obama and Madame Secretary Clinton. Those two patriots are
    protecting us from ourselves.
    Our forefathers must be observing this countries politicians and be so proud
    how our legacy of freedom and self reliance has been and is being squandered.
    We should hold our heads low. I apologize to our future generations.

  • MarkJ

    “My educated guess is that this will not affect anything, the ATF would have to be out of their gourd to make such a sweeping change without notifying large ammunition manufacturers.”

    Then again, if we’ve learned anything from the past seven years, it’s that the Obama Administration is collectively bat-s***, moon-barking crazy.

    • Donglemongle

      The ruling was published in June, I’d like to point out. There’s been plenty of time for ammunition manufacturers to deal with the matter. It isn’t like this ruling came out a few days ago.

      They tried the same reclassification with model rocket propellant. They can’t make policy changes like this without a discussion period prior to it. Just saying it is so will get it (rightfully) thrown out.

  • SeventySeven

    Just wait, if Hillary gets elected this article could be the least of our concerns. COULD.

  • Phil Hsueh

    I don’t get it, if it wasn’t a problem before then why is it now?

  • ONTIME

    I think the anti gun opposition has made it perfectly clear that they will make every effort to use legal chicanery, activism and end run tactics to suffocate the 2nd amend and destroy your inalienable rights in order to grow government and make the wet dream of global government the future…….we who oppose them will do everything we can to make sure their wet dream is a bust……

  • JohnnyJTav

    It’s Even More Reason Trump has to Win…

  • Jason Wallentine

    “The ATF would have to be out of their gourd…” Yep. You seem to have a pretty good handle on these guys.

  • Sickshooter0

    “Even the DOD will be hit pretty hard by the new ruling…” Hah! And who pays the DoD’s bills?

  • Lance Tyree

    I can think of a good expenditure of ~22 grains of H110! ..problem solved!

  • Perplexedpop

    Get real folks. This sounds like another Obama move to contract the size of the shooting sports community.

  • glenn cheney

    I could get into a serious discussion on nitrogens, but choose not to. To obviate nitrates in bulk and attack small quantity propellants is an administrative attack on the Second Amendment and a lol, if it wasn’t such a threat. Yea, we have surplus 16″ rifled turrets, left over from WWII, but those 2,200 pound projectiles are hard to find…
    Collect all the Chrome molly and aluminum scrap you want.

  • glenn cheney

    They pulled my post, Nov. 2015, Krissy sent in to find the keyhole to shut off supply….you’re going to become molly steel and aluminum scrappers…that’s what they call people that scavenge and sell scrap metals, ferrous and non-ferrous alike. One domestic source? We are toast.

  • Donald

    Maybe that’s why all Government Agency’s have been buying up millions of rounds of ammo for years because they knew this was going to keep civilians from stocking up.

  • Martin Grønsdal

    what if they declare every case to be a silencer? every shot would be X dollars pr bullet + th 200 dollars tax stamp

  • FriendOfJohnnyM

    If you haven’t already, start reloading.
    Buy a good press and dies.
    Buy bulk lead and bullet molds.
    Buy bulk powders and primers.
    Buy or scrounge brass casings.

    (Optional) Learn gunsmithing, or find a good gunsmith and befriend them.

    This is the only GUARANTEED way to keep the government from preventing your getting ammo.

  • Core

    I guess we will all have to start making our own smokeless gunpowder.. They are using Europe as a model, we can use Europe’s history to stay ahead of the antis charge.

  • NeoBlackdog

    Can someone tell me when/where was the last incidence of a shipment of nitrocellulose exploding?

    • noob

      At the Thales munitions plant in Australia they make their own nitrocellulose from paper (cellulose) and ammonia (from which they make the nitric acid). They did have one incident years ago during the final step where an alcohol lubricated blade cuts the extruded strands of nitrocellulose into grains of gunpowder (but before the black graphite coating is added for antistatic protection).

      The guy conducting the tour said “We found we didn’t need the berms around the building that day because the building burned fiercely, but did not explode.”

    • Bill

      And if one did, people would claim the .gov didn’t do enough to prevent it. Do we need a problem to occur first, or can we try to prevent it before it happens.

      Do you carry a gun because you have been attacked, or want to prevent it from occurring in the future?

  • leatherneck111

    How is it that all these years this has NOT been an issue and has not been reclassified? It’s obvious the BATF is anti 2nd amendment and can make it prohibitively expensive to go shooting. It’s a dirty liberal policy ploy❗️

  • Russian Roulette dont Tweet

    BAN the ATF.

  • no one from nowhere

    This is why everyone needs to learn to make their own, powder, primers,and projectile!!

  • Dave Buck

    Sounds like a cheap, tawdry ATF attempt to screw-over shooters – again. Don’t they have anything better to do?

    • wzrd1

      Erm, first of all, if you’re trying to shoot using that kind of powder, you’ll screw-over yourself. It’s explosive.

      Nitrocellulose is soluble in a mixture of alcohol and ether until nitrogen concentration exceeds 12%. Soluble nitrocellulose, or a solution thereof, is sometimes called collodion. Brown, G.I. (1998). The Big Bang: A history of Explosives. Sutton Publishing p.132 ISBN 0-7509-1878-0
      Guncotton containing more than 13% nitrogen (sometimes called insoluble nitrocellulose) was prepared by prolonged exposure to hot, concentrated acids for limited use as a blasting explosive or for warheads of underwater weapons such as naval mines and torpedoes. Fairfield, A. P., CDR USN. Naval Ordnance. Lord Baltimore Press (1921) pages 28–31.

  • jerry young

    I got to scratch my head on this one, first it wasn’t an explosive when wet but now because the ATF says it is it now is? this sounds like just another anti gun attack, take away or price ammo through the roof so the average shooter can no longer afford it or obtain it and you have a form of gun control.

  • Tonya Masters

    The Democrats have been wanting total gun control, even hinting on seizing guns from law abiding citizens, knowing that would be an impossible task. One the other hand they have the ability to strictly control availability and sales of ammunition, without ammo guns turn into high dollar rocks that can only be thrown.

  • Wil Ferch

    Basically saying…the “element” nitrogen…as it is normally found as N2…. is inert. NO DOUBT nitrogen can be an element as part of a larger compound combined with other elements, to make more dangerous compounds.

  • disqus_PDmXLtTxJj

    I already purchased 2,000 new rounds before I even finished the article. BUY BUY BUY!

  • Alex

    Well hell let me get out of the way of the mad rush at Walmart, I’m sure that many will dash right in.

  • USMC03Vet

    Ammoland is not a reputable source of information. I’ve routinely come across bogus information in their articles there as well as entire articles based around known and exposed phonies using their fake expertise.

    That domain is horrible. People should stop promoting it.

  • Hossi Blumengaarten

    I hate the ATF, they can go to hell!!!!

  • CountryBoy

    This is an outdated article…. the ATF has already backed away from this

  • Mike Lashewitz

    I believe the ATF dropped this 2 days ago.

  • jeffrey melton

    I believe that “the ATF would have to be out of their gourd” that pretty well says it all. It’s not the ATF, it’s the idiot occupying the oval office currently that’s to blame for this nonsense.

  • Paul Prochko

    From what I am reading, the ATF has backed off the idea… but it’s good advertising for ammunition sales…

  • CountryBoy

    “Even the DOD will be hit pretty hard by the new ruling”

    Not quite. They can always squeeze the taxpayers for “just a little bit more”.

  • BigR

    Every time the ATF and the government comes up with an idea on how to make prices go up on anything that law abiding gun owners use, we get to bend over and take in up the rear end. The criminals don’t pay a dime on anything they steal. Yet they can get guns, ammo, money or any thing they want, without paying a nickle for it. Then, if they get caught, they get to live off of the taxpayers with free room and board, and they’re let out early so they can make life hard for law abiding tax payers again. What a vicious circle our government weaves! We follow the laws of the land, and we pay for everything, their salaries, retirement, and they never have to worry about getting fired for any reason. They just move over to another job, and keep drawing their paycheck! Ain’t life a biotch!

  • One_Jackal

    Nothing is going to happen. Our “friends” The Firearms Blog are trying to start another ammo shortage. The ATF has already issued a letter of clarification. But you see no post made by TFB to clarify the matter. Here is the letter issued by the ATF on August 31, 2016