Diminishing Returns and Firearm Performance

It seems like with anything else, there is a easily obtainable goal or threshold one can reach with a reasonable level of expenditure, but going beyond that takes exponentially more time, money, and effort. Firearms are no different, as an entry level stock gun can do much more than many people realize, but as you make your way up the ladder you find that accuracy and increased performance don’t come cheap.

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Transcript …

– [Voiceover] Diminishing returns and firearms, how does it apply? Well, in economics it means that as investment in a particular area increases, the rate of profit from that investment after a certain point cannot continue to increase if other variables remain at a constant.

So, as investment continues past that point the return diminishes progressively.

So how does this apply to anything else? Well, it’s something hot rodders are all too familiar with.

For example, getting to 500 or 600 horsepower is pretty easy and reasonably inexpensive these days.

For a couple of thousand bucks you can get there on a stock long block.

Most modern transmissions can handle it, as can rear ends, and modern brakes even provide enough woe for all that go.

But to step up and get to the next level it’s exponentially more expensive.

You need new pistons and rods, head work, cams, perhaps even a new block if you go big enough.

Then comes the transmission, diff, cage, belts, Lexan, and all of a sudden shaving off another 10th of a quarter means a second or third mortgage on your home.

So this automotive tangent aside, if you’re still with me then the same applies most certainly to firearm performance.

Too often I see people with firearms who for no good reason spend hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars on brilliantly made stock handguns to try and turn them into some kind of half-assed race gun or tactical monstrosity.

But let’s back up.

Yes, for many shooters like the folks who are competitive in IPSC Open, then they legitimately need any edge they can get.

That’s why race guns look the way they do, charging handles, electronic sights, thumb rests, compensators, and jet funnel mag wells all help the best of the best handgun shooters shave off precious time and increase hit probability to hopefully place first.

These guns also cost $5,000 and up, but are purpose-built race guns with ironically little to no practicality outside of shooting events held by the International Practical Shooting Confederation.

Sure they’re still deadly, and I guess you could use one for protection, but when building one of these firearms nobody asks, “Well yeah, but how viable is it “as a carry gun?” But really you see people shooting who wouldn’t place well in production or classify an IDPA above novice shelling out money for mods instead of ammo and range time, which I promise will help an amateur shooter more than any expensive parts you can put on your new Glock.

$1,000 worth of accessories is alluring to a young, new shooter.

It’s fun to work on stuff and make something your own, but shooting well is more important than looking cool, and that dollar amount will also buy you about 5,000 rounds of ammunition to practice with.

And I think any trainer or competition shooter is going to tell you to go that route.

So when should you start modifying your stuff? Well, that’s a tricky question to answer.

First of all, what do you want to accomplish? If you’re nailing the bullseye at all angles while standing or on the move, then you may be getting the most out of your pistol, which is something most shooters do not and cannot do despite claims made by everyone on the internet who can send all their rounds through one hole while back-flipping from the bed of a moving pickup truck.

The fact is that most guns are more capable than the shooter behind them, and squeezing every little bit of accuracy out of a handgun takes time, patience, and dedication.

It’s hard to say exactly when a shooter needs more, but suffice it to say if you are killing it in production or shoot a classifier and fall into export, or the coveted master, then you’re probably there.

This also goes for rifle shooting.

A stock AR-15 is a lot more capable than people think.

I’ve seen excellent shooters make stock rifles dance like a ballerina, and marginal shooters behind extremely high-end expensive rifles struggle at 100 yards to hit a 12 inch plate.

I would argue that if you’re shooting five or six inch group at 100 yards with iron sights behind a 69-20, you don’t need that $300 trigger yet.

The gun is doing its job in this case.

It’s the shooter that isn’t, as much as it might pain you to admit.

But say the shooter is shooting very impressive groups with irons, then I would say, “Yes, you could definitely “benefit from expensive parts.” So diminishing returns applies here.

Accuracy is expensive.

A new trigger is one of the less expensive upgrades that has a noticeable effect on accuracy, but in my experience is one of the greatest things you can do to tighten up groups.

And getting to one MOA consistently with the right ammo, trigger, and a decent optic is a pretty solid goal; however, as a shooter seeks to tighten up a group beyond this, the cost grows exponentially for each fraction of a minute.

A new barrel, bolt, incredibly expensive optic, free float tube, and so on makes the price of getting down to one MOA look like pocket change.

Then you see old guys with rail guns for whom accuracy has become an absolute obsession trucking around monstrosities that would cost more money and time to build than your car.

So there’s definitely a threshold.

The cost of accuracy goes up exponentially, especially if the shooter’s skill level remains constant.

For the overwhelming majority of shooters there is no substitute for range time, but for the few who can get the most out of any given firearm, then the perpetual disappearance and reappearance of the comma in their bank statement may be necessary despite the insistence of their accountant or wife.

Thank you very much for watching, and a special thank you to Ventura Munitions for helping us with the ammo for our program.

Also, thank you for sitting through the musings of an internet gun expert.

We hope to see you next time.

Alex C.

Alex is a Senior Writer for The Firearm Blog and Director of TFBTV.


  • Kivaari

    Your suggestion about new triggers on AR15s is right on the money. After being shown a Geislle SSA trigger on a rifle, I decided I needed to have one on my rifle. It instantly gave me a 1 MOA improvement in group sizes. Now they are on all of my ARs. I’d recommend them or a similar trigger to anyone serious about shooting their ARs, as it gives aninstant return for the money spent. Regardless of the sight sued the return is worth the investment.
    All it takes for the average AR owner, having a Mil-spec trigger, is to dry fire the SSA a couple times. It will win you over, and then you hit the range and you wonder why you didn’t do it sooner.

    • M-cameron

      if a trigger improves your grouping by 1 MOA……you need more training, because you apparently havent learned your fundamentals.

      • Kivaari

        I would suggest you have not used many AR15 rifles with standard factory triggers. They are difficult to overcome the grinding and drag. The weakest point of an off-the-shelf AR15 is the mil-spec trigger. Same can go for the simple Ruger 10-22 rifle. The factory triggers are horrible of both rifle systems. EVERYONE I know that shoots ARs, Glocks and 10-22s complain about the horrid trigger pulls. This is quite common on semi-auto rifles and many modern pistols.
        I know my basics having been a shooter for over 50 years. I know enough that by adding an SSA trigger to an AR, a 3.5 pound connecter to a Glock 17 or a Volquartsen set to a 10-22 changes the performance instantly from a struggle to a pleasure.
        What is the biggest complaint you hear about both systems? I’d bet it is trigger pulls. I suggest you own a gun shop for a few decades and listen to customers and then see how to solve their issues with heavy and rough triggers. If you have an AR with a good trigger off the shelf, I suspect it is a $3000 rifle with a tuned trigger.
        Everyone benefits from a good trigger.

        • M-cameron

          i never said people dont benefit from a better trigger…..

          but if your groups improve 1 MOA just by swapping a trigger,……that indicated a shooter issue, and your new trigger is just masking the issue.

          a standard Mil-spec trigger, a standard AK trigger, a standard 10/22 or rem700 trigger is honestly not all that bad……..they are not fine match triggers by any means……….but they are not so bad as to cause significant accuracy issues. a competent shooter should be able to shoot all of these gun to their inherent mechanical accuracy, regardless of how bad the triggers are (Within reason)

          • Kivaari

            I suspect I have had more trigger time than you could imagine. Like your blanket statement about Remington M700s. I’ve seen some OK off the shelf models, and then for some reason the police rifles that came through my hands as a dealer and cop were absolutely horrible. I viewed it as intentional on Remington’s part. Even old Remington M721-722 triggers were often better than later generation M700. Then I’ve had Mauser M98 military rifles that had spectacular two-stage triggers. Out of the millions of rifles made we see quite a few that leave the factory purposefully to make firing the gun more difficult. If you notice there trend lately is to finally install better and/or adjustable triggers on more rifles. Why? Well, the original triggers were bad. This is especially so on most AR15 rifles using stock triggers. Now I have recently found a few rack grade ARs with good triggers. I also found there have been mostly rough 10-22 triggers that no matter how good you are just make shooting small groups near impossible. This is especially so for off hand shooting. Bench shooting allows you to overcome some really bad triggers. Take the rifle you master on a solid rest and shoot from traditional field positions. That SSA trigger in an AR will do more than improve your group by a MOA.
            Everyone can benefit from a better trigger. You can be a fine shooter and given a horrible trigger you just can’t overcome the sensation of dragging your finger nails across an asphalt highway.Shooting a rifle or handgun to its mechanical accuracy while it has a crummy trigger is unrealistic. Almost no one can do that if the thing has a horrible trigger pull. Put them in a machine rest with a remote trigger plunger and you may be able to wring a good group out of it. Add 50 pounds of lead to your lead sled and you can do better. Take a simple rest across a field expedient object and let me see you shoot a quick group that gives you the mechanical accuracy that the gun is capable of if anchored in concrete.
            You better tell all those people buying after market triggers that they are wasting their money as all it takes is more practice. Practice helps as does a good trigger helps.

          • M-cameron

            pal…..i honestly doubt you shoot more than i do……i have a background in NCAA rifle…..and currently shoot 3 and 4 position, highpower, and IPSC…….honestly i probably shoot on average of 100K rounds a year, i know how to shoot a rifle.

            and honestly, 90% of my firearms have factory triggers….

            a trigger helps your connection to the rifle…..but it has 0 impact on the accuracy of the gun.

            if you pull shots with your factory trigger, you are also pulling shots with an aftermarket trigger…..the only difference is an aftermarket trigger is often lighter, making that pulled shot less dramatic……but it still doesnt change the fact that you are pulling the shot in the first place.

            as i said, before, there are no factory firearms that ive seen that have a bad enough trigger to cause accuracy issues with a good shooter…..they may be a little heavy, and a little gritty…….but all things considered, they are not as bad as people like to make them out to be…..and a milspec ar15 trigger is honestly not that bad……..so as i said before, if you are gaining 1MOA from a trigger, you dont know how to shoot.

          • Kivaari

            OK you shoot a lot more than I do. Since retiring I don’t shoot much. You mistake mechanical accuracy with realistic accuracy. If you think a crappy trigger has little effect on shooting than I think you are full of it. I don’t know anyone that can’t benefit from a good trigger. Mechanical accuracy is meaningless if the mechanics of getting a clean let off isn’t there. I disagree about AR15 trigger pulls. SOME are OK. Most aren’t.
            I am not the only person that finds the mechanical advantage of a 2 pound crisp trigger pull to be superior to a gritty 6 pound pull.
            I bow to your superior skill, and think that MOST people never will shoot that much and will benefit from an aftermarket AR15 trigger.
            You can’t take your unusual high volume shooting to represent anything beyond people shooting in your class.
            As an instructor and student I learned that good triggers allowed my students and I to shoot better. I am so glad that YOU can shoot crappy triggers. I am in awe of your all mighty skill.

          • Kivaari

            I guess you don’t benefit from a match trigger. I wonder why so many people do.

        • Marcus D.

          If all you want is a decent trigger pull, you can spend $65 and get an excellent single stage trigger from ALS. I have a QMS that I bought for $45, and the only down side to it is that the pull–which has minimal creep, no grit, and a short reset–is a bit heavy at around 8 lbs. With a spring change ($5), you can drop that to 4 or 5. Does Geisselle make an excellent trigger? No doubt, but that does not mean you need to spend $250 or more to have a sold, dependable, and accurate AR.

          • Kivaari

            I replaced Colt and Bushmaster with $185 Geiselle SSA triggers. Love ’em. In building several I used CGGM lower parts kits. These gave excellent triggers compared to the factory Colt and Bushmaster. OTS Tactical Innovations fro Bonners Ferry ID have been superb and don’t need trading out. The good trigger in factory rifles is a new phenonenom, as 40 years of hands on with ARs showed until recently you couldn’t find a decent trigger. A budget build with a CGGM trigger gives much better results.

          • Kivaari

            Recently I handled some ARs made by I believe Tactical Innovation (Bonners Ferry Idaho IIRC) and they were the best rack grade triggers I have felt. Had my rifles had such good triggers I would not have felt the need to upgrade.

        • Klaus Von Schmitto

          Most of my AR’s have factory triggers. Factory triggers that I have polished and tuned with a sheet of glass, a 1-2-3 block (to keep the edges square), 400 and 600 sandpaper and an Arkansas stone. This is a 45 minute job and makes a world of difference and costs nothing.

          • Kivaari

            That’s good. Most people that polish triggers screw ’em up. If you can do a good job, that’s great. I have extra sets I could screw with but before I do so I’ll need a jig to keep thing square.

          • Kivaari

            Having a fixture to keep the edges square is critical. I’ve seen quite a few ruined triggers over the years, especially on 1911s. “Everyone” is a M1911 pistolsmith, just ask anyone that owns a M1911.

          • Jack

            Except your time and the cost of the material to do it.

      • Jack

        You must be fun at the range!!

        • m-cameron

          i try to be…..i just call BS when i see it….

          • Jack

            Keep trying!!

  • TheNotoriousIUD

    Odd story for a site that advertises a new 4K Wilson Combat every other day.

    • Yeah, I don’t have control over that.

      • TheNotoriousIUD

        I hear you.

    • ostiariusalpha

      “Do I contradict myself?
      Very well then I contradict myself,
      (I am large, I contain multitudes.)”
      – Walt Whitman

    • Ike

      I think it’s a good thing that the writers on this site are willing to post editorial content that may not align with the economic interests of the site’s sponsors. It’s a sign of journalistic integrity.

      I also think people buy guns like $4,000 Wilsons for a variety of reasons unrelated to a desire to increase speed or accuracy–e.g., quality, fit and finish, collectibility, aesthetics, etc.

      • Kivaari

        It’s like an Ed Brown “Special Forces” that cost twice what a similar Colt sells for. The Colt appears to be quickly and cheaply built whereas the Brown looks like it was built with care. Just that extra fit and finish makes it look like it will outperform a factory rough Colt. They may both work, just fine, but one gun transmits a feeling of quality that a roll stamped rampant Colt just doesn’t.

      • Dave Parks

        To be fair, I see just as many if not more ads for ammo on this site as I do for gear, so saying “spend your money on ammo” isn’t exactly going against their sponsors.

        Good video, though! 🙂

    • Major Tom

      Those stories make me suffer from Gun Fundus Depletus. And I never even opened my wallet!

  • LG

    So true. Practice, practice, and MORE practice are the best accessories for tightening groups and increasing performance.

  • Joseph Goins

    Finally, another like minded person. You can’t buy talent.

  • Rob

    What you say if very true. The problem is determining where you are on the spectrum. The best way is to find someone who is well above your skill level and let them shoot your firearm, or find someone with a higher quality firearm and get some trigger time on it. It can be very enlightening.

    I saw a guy struggling at the range to shoot 6 inch groups at 100 yards with a benched AR with an optic. Figured he just wasn’t very good. We got to talking and I tried my hand at it with his rifle. Same size groups. Then I let him shoot my rifle and ammo. 2″ groups. Turns out he was shooting really crappy ammo (Monarch) and also probably had a scope problem. He was doing everything right (for his skill level) and getting frustrated.

    I’ve also shown a range warrior that his “crappy” SKS that “can’t even hit paper” can actually shoot a 3~4″ group at 100 yards if you know what you are doing.

    • DrewN

      I once helped a kid with a Mini Target whose groups looked like a giant egg. He sat down behind my Fulton and put 3 into a pastie right off so I knew something was up. What was up was that I was able to get a freaking nickle on each side of his receiver in the stupid Ca. compliant Hogue furniture. His groups dropped immediately to 4-5 inches. He went out and got a real stock and had it bedded and got almost 1.5 MOA out of that POS.

    • Paul White

      that’s how I realized my crappy PTAC upper was crappy…..my friends FIL is a pretty fair shot, and couldn’t get better than 5″ groups with it. Note, I was more like 8-10″ groups. But still, I felt it worth upgrading

      • Kivaari

        What is a “PTAC” upper? It sounds like something to avoid.

        • James

          PTAC is PSA’s budget line. They’re functional, but not very well.

          • Kivaari

            I hear they sell some “Chinese junk”. They don’t seem to have a market presence in my part of Idaho.

          • Thadius814

            That’s because they’re mostly Internet..

          • Paul White


            I can do 2″ groups (with care) from a mossberg MMR under decent conditions. So I’m not a great shot–I’ve seen people hit 1.5″ fairly consistently with the same gun–but I’m not a 5″ group bad shot either!

          • iksnilol

            PSA has an even cheaper line!?

  • Gary Kirk

    But I have the most expensive gun on the line, won’t shoot it, just pull it out of the case and show it off. In the process flagging just about everyone, and explaining how it can group 1″ @ 1000yards.. So obviously I don’t really need to practice today, going home now.. Y’all keep trying to get to my level. Gotta go sign in to call of duty

    • FarmerB

      Funny – seen that.

      • Gary Kirk

        All too many times… And we will continue to

  • Trey

    In an opposite way, especially in rifle shooting, there is NO reason to try to save bucks by hand loading 30.06 to “300 mag” power level, If you NEED more gun BUY more gun.

    for those of us on budgets ending in hundreds not thousands most of the time, it is a great joy to out shoot “capt taci-cool” with a stock rifle (often a very old one at that)

  • Black Dots

    Really wish you guys had published this a week ago…

    • Vitsaus

      Picture says it all.

    • Paul White

      is he shy a finger?

      • Gary Kirk

        Ahh.. The costs of H$K..

      • Kivaari

        No, It’s just his middle finger under the trigger guard.

      • LCON

        The Sarlacc Ate it.

        • Thadius814

          This guy!!!!!

    • iksnilol

      To be fair, that NVG monocular is a force multiplier (in the dark) no matter how many rounds you’ve shot.

  • Harry’s Holsters

    I more I train the less I think I need more guns or gun parts. What I really need is more lights, kit and training. And ammo too. To shoot not stockpile although I wouldn’t mind having 5 years worth put back to evade panic prices.

    • Kivaari

      I need my youth back.

    • Kivaari

      The only thing I really started changing on rifles has been triggers. I just could not overcome the rough triggers in ARs and 10-22 rifles. Then the only real accessory that gets played with are optics. Both glass and triggers help overcome some of the loss that is present thanks to getting old.

      • Harry’s Holsters

        I honestly don’t work much with rifles. I have limited resources and I am most likely to have to use a handgun for defense. I also shoot pretty well with rifles without the constant practice I need for handguns.

        Rifles I think benefit more from the accessories than handguns considering the distance and our bodies natural limitations seeing at distance.

        • Kivaari

          I don’t change or add much to handguns. Glocks get a new connector sometimes. I don’t like lights. Sometimes sights get changed or just ordered with the desired set when new.

          • Harry’s Holsters

            I change the sights right away on almost any handgun but for new shooters I’m almost to the point now where I think if it’s sights vs ammo they should go with the ammo. On my glocks I keep playing with connectors but go back to stock as it’s shootable and reliable. What gets me are the new guys with $700 to spend who buy a glock, sights, and a connector and two boxes of ammo. That’s how I started out but it wasn’t a smart move.

  • Anon

    It’s too bad that tactitards won’t listen…

  • Paul White

    I can hit a bullseye! I just gotta walk right up to it first

  • Bill

    A skilled shooter with a Hi-Point will beat a klutz with a 3K wundergun every time. Every. Single. Time.

    The car analogy is good, but only goes so far. You can buy horsepower, literally in a bottle if you get into NOS, but the YouTubes are full of film of idiots who bent their rides because they didn’t have the skill to connect that horsepower to the pavement without getting crossways. I’m convinced that I will never wring the full potential from any of my guns.

    My personal weakness is holsters: I’m not that good at my presentations, but am always looking for something “better,” whatever the hell that is.

    • Gary Kirk

      You’ve seen the elusive ” skilled shooter with a hi point”.. From what I’ve heard from every person with a hi point, they’re skilled in “Urban Conflict”.. Masters at it if what they say is true.. Understand your point, but could’ve used a more realistic reference than those

    • Kivaari

      I never met anyone that owned a Hi Point that knew much about guns.

      • Porty1119

        I’m not really surprised. Give Jerry Miculek a HiPoint, and he’d probably outshoot John Doe and his $4000 race gun, all things being equal.

      • iksnilol

        Shame, since Hi-Points do have an accuracy potential (believe it or not).

        Put a match grade barrel in one and tune the trigger and you’d see pretty good performance (heavy + fixed barrel makes for an accurate gun).

        • Kivaari

          Except for those horrible triggers I would expect them to shoot OK. As you say the fixed barrel aids the shooting. It is just so odd that the designers of the Hi Point crafted such ugly guns. It would not have taken much to make them look like higher quality pistols. Being intentionally ugly just baffles me.

          • jack

            Cameron would just send them back to a class to learn fundamentals. Then everything would be fine. It’s not the trigger! It’s YOU!!

          • Kivaari

            It’s amazing if you hand someone a pistol with a good trigger after they shoot one having a poor trigger. All of a sudden they have nice things to say and can hit the target. Cameron knows it mechanically able to shoot the same. Just people aren’t machines.

  • RetroG

    Use the $1000 to get instruction. I see way too many people at the range blazing away, burning up a ton of ammo and not shooting very well.

    Try different ammo to see if your gun is picky.

    I agree about triggers, they make a world of difference. Iron sights are good for people with good to great eyesight, not so much for the rest of us.

    Eventually all that IPSC/USPSA stuff that works trickles down to those of us carrying or for home defense, just like race car tech trickles down to the average driver.

  • Jim Drickamer

    When I started in IPSC shooting, a Master class shooter gave me the following advice: Buy a basic, safe, and reliable 1911 and a thousand rounds of ammo. Shoot that gun in practice and competition till you are out-shooting it, meaning the gun is slowing you down and is mechanically less accurate than you are. This will take most of those thousand rounds. Then, add one or more carefully considered bell or whistle, and another thousand rounds of ammo. Shoot till the gun is slowing you down and is less mechanically accurate than you are. This will take most of these thousand rounds as well. Repeat this process over and over till you reach your desired level of performance.

  • Badwolf

    “You are all just jealous!”, said the Rich Man With No Time To Practice.

  • gunsandrockets

    Ah, but I have the advantage of poverty which precludes such traps! Lucky me.

    Even so, good advice.

    • I almost feel sorry for the wealthy, who are constantly in danger of spending their fortunes unwisely. Almost.

  • Dave Parks

    The car analogy is spot on. I’d say you could turn this back around on car guys — take your stock setup to the track/trail for awhile before dumping money into upgrades. You’d be amazed at what a light 4×4 can get through with the right tire placement, and how fast a compact car can corner with the right apex.

    Just remember to have fun!

    • Porty1119

      You’d be amazed what a stock RWD pickup can get through if properly driven, especially if you’ve got a couple shovels in the bed to break grades.

    • iksnilol

      Stock setup is more than good enough on the windy roads in Norway.

      Though I recommend a lightweight car. Something like a Cappuccino would be a dream here in Norway. A lightweight car even with a weak engine is plenty good in winding mountain roads.

      • FarmerB

        A Cappuccino? I’m sure 99% of the people that saw your comment had NO IDEA what you were talking about. The Suzuki Cappuccino isn’t a car, it’s… Well, I’m not sure what it is.

        • iksnilol

          Oh it’s a beauty with a 150 hp engine. Was only one for sale in the entirety of Norway. A beauty in the sense of performance.

          Though it is plenty fast with the original 63 hp engine, in the right hands that is.

  • Anonymoose

    The moral of the story: buy a G19 Gen3, a Shrubmaster M4A2, and a basic 500 and be content for the rest of your life.

    • Kivaari

      Make it a used M870 and I’m Ok with it.

    • iksnilol

      Get one of those holster stocks (for your G19), SBS the shotgun (and mount it underslung on the AR) and you’ll have all the gun you need in one… not so handy package.

  • Malthrak

    I have a similar but somewhat different problem. I am a decently experienced but thoroughly mediocre shooter and always will be, but that’s not where my big issue is. The most I’ve ever added to a gun is a red dot and a VFG, usually just the red dot, I don’t kit out my guns much at all.

    Rather, my problem is that I just keep buying more guns. Why bother with dumping $8k into one gun when you can just get eight different guns instead!

  • Cap’n Mike

    Some nice Mustangs.
    2004 Terminator Cobra and FR500 Cobra Jet?

  • Marcus D.

    I am in no danger of outshooting any of my guns. I am “combat accurate,” meaning I’ll put a hole in you were it hurts, but not necessarily in exactly the place I was trying to shoot you, and most certainly not a single ragged hole at 25 yards with a handgun. But I’m OK with that. I haven’t the skill, talent, time or money to compete, but I can enjoy myself at the range just the same, and protect me and mine should the need arise.

  • Tassiebush

    Well said! I really need to put more thought into planning and doing practice, and less into filling gaps in my gun collection.

    • FarmerB

      Now hang on, filling ever smaller gaps in a gun collection to meet ever more narrowly defined use cases and “mission profiles” is a noble art. Sort of like having an expandable bag of golf clubs without the 14 club limit.

      • ostiariusalpha

        And like all noble arts, you have to be careful not to be seduced into ignoring your limits. The acquisition of time and ammo for sufficient practice has to come first, afterwards you can ennoble thy dwelling with sundry examples of enticing craftsmanship.

        • Tassiebush

          I wonder where the metaphor could go if we made it about ping pong balls instead?

          • ostiariusalpha

            Oh, we could go to some weird places.

          • Tassiebush

            Haha is that an actual product!? Well to bring it back to the shooting related https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-vyc6zBsLxw

          • Tassiebush

            Gee I need to watch more Archer!

      • iksnilol

        And here I am proud that I can heel&toe shift with my 15 year old Skoda.

        I really wish I had y’all budget sometime.

        • Tassiebush

          Only 15 years old. Why that’s virtually new!

          • iksnilol

            Yup, only recently properly worn in.

          • Tassiebush

            I’d really like a car with every window working and functional air conditioning.

          • iksnilol

            Well, my windows are manual (but all work) and the air condition works but I never use it (due to it sapping power from my… wait for it… 75HP *whoa* engine)

          • Tassiebush

            Electric windows are made with no thought for the fellow who’ll own it in 20 years. Haha that’s always fun choosing between power and comfort or defogging which is actually my main air-conditioning use when I’ve had it. My land cruiser isn’t all that fast. It’s about 129hp apparently but it’s a heavy old beast.

      • Tassiebush

        I don’t want to argue with that. It’d be like arguing against being given chocolate cake or money.

  • Bub

    If I was going to spend money on any upgrade to an ar15 it would be the trigger. You can do ok with most stock ar triggers which aren’t as bad as most will tell you, but a better trigger sure helps IMO. Disclosure I started out on guns with good triggers if it had been the other way around my opinion might be different.

  • Bub

    Alex speaking of triggers, how was the trigger in your Beretta CX4 carbine? It looked in the video like you could run it fairly fast. Been looking at one as a competition carbine.

  • TC

    Good Article, and I agree that a good trigger will always help to make shooting more accurate.

  • Brian Hert

    Totally agree, technique and training will give you far more than spending money on upgrades. And that will serve you with any rifle you pick up. If you’re someone struggling to hit a plate at 100 yards, a 14$ sling and some practice with it will help more than a 600$ sight.

  • Well said. I appreciated the analogy from the hot rodding world. A buddy of mine builds cars and his favorite maxim about that particularly expensive hobby is, “If you wanna to build a car worth 20 grand, get ready to spend 30.”

  • Old Gringo

    . The Vanguard Weatherby was about $450 and shoots 3/4 inch groups and with its plastic stock and cheap optics is a plain as they come. My Weatherby Mark V Deluxe with custom sites added at the factory is a work of art, beautify stock and mirror blue finish. It will shoot 1.5 MOA…….I find the biggest hype is in high end 1911s…..I have bought the RIA and ther cheap ones that will shoot half the groups as Kimbers top end and be totally reliable…just my experience after 45 years of shooting them and carrying them in law enforcement and the military…..dont waste money…doing so is a sign of immaturity…..