Striker-Fired vs. DA/SA Handguns, and the Everyman Shooter vs. the Concealed Carry Wizard

The author's beloved 1990 manufacture SIG P220 DA/SA handgun. I carry a Glock, though.

The author's beloved 1990 manufacture SIG P220 DA/SA handgun. I carry a Glock, though.

Back in May, Chris Baker released these three videos on DA/SA handguns for the LuckyGunner YouTube channel. They are all of the same high standard of quality I’ve come to expect from Chris, so I recommend my readers watch all three of them before continuing:

Chris makes some interesting points for discussion, although most of what I’m about to discuss in tow will be about culture rather than equipment. First, I think Chris is 100% right about choosing DA/SA pistols… IF you are the kind of shooter he is. That is, someone who shoots pistols a lot, who always is practicing from concealment, who is always trying to get better scores and times, and who is (probably as a consequence of the last thing) picky about their triggers.

In that case, DA/SA stands a good chance of being “for you”. But, while I recognize that there are many people who fit that description (and you can usually identify them by their reaction when you say “Todd Green”), I wonder about how their approach compares with my life, and the lives of many other gun owners. Are they professional competitive shooters who also carry concealed for self defense? Some are, but many others aren’t, yet they too still train aggressively. I’ve met many people who are quasi-competitive about their shooting, but aren’t exactly racing open guns in IPSC championships, either. These sorts of people are very likely to treat competition as more of a skills-honing exercise than a sport, and they are very likely to be extremely thorough in every aspect of carrying a firearm concealed.

They have, in other words, gone way beyond “maintaining proficiency” and have turned their choice to carry concealed into a hobby, which I should say is far from a bad thing! It’s these folks I am most likely to turn to for advice on concealed carry, and a great many of them have made successful and lucrative careers in the industry this way. In fact, it’s a great thing that people pursue this avenue, and I’m not at all writing this to denigrate or belittle people who choose to participate in the shooting hobby in this way.

What this approach isn’t, though, is reflective of most people’s use of a handgun, myself included. Even though I am by the dictionary definition a professional (of some odd variety) in the shooting sports world, handguns take a decided back seat to everything else I do there. Since they interest me less, I shoot with them often enough to maintain proficiency, and that’s about it. Accordingly, my focus when I carry a handgun centers around what I consider to be the most likely scenarios that I could encounter, rather than improving my skills with a pistol to the highest possible level. Don’t get me wrong, if there’s going to be a firefight and all my buddies and I get to have are concealed pistols, I want the concealed carry wizards to be on my team! Likewise, if a highly trained shooter goes nuts and decides to massacre a room of people, “maintaining proficiency” is not going to cut it. Even so, here’s what I actually care about when I carry a gun:

  1. Do I have a gun?
  2. Am I behaving safely with said gun?
  3. If I am concealing my gun, is it adequately concealed?
  4. Whether/when/how do I present the gun? (Every single “incident” I have actually experienced involved me presenting the firearm first, to show I was armed. Not every one will, but this is a major consideration for me.)
  5. If I need to, how quickly and accurately can I fire off the first shot? And,
  6. Do I have subsequent shots available as well as a reload in the event of a malfunction?

That is about it for me. I am not really worried about split times, beyond being able to create a reasonable group at 15 yards quickly, and my emphasis is on the first round fired. If I have to fire my gun, the ONLY shot that is guaranteed (gun reliability permitting) to be discharged is my first shot, so I A.) want it to hit my target, and B.) want it to not hit anything else. Now, if I have taken 300 hours of training and I am hitting the range to practice my pistol shooting from a holster 1.5 times a week, then I might be totally confident I can satisfy 4A and 4B with a DA/SA handgun that has an 11lb trigger pull when decocked, but I am not that person. I don’t “live a concealed carry lifestyle”, I just carry a gun to protect myself, the difference being the number of priorities that either require my time, or that I’d rather devote it to besides handgun practice.

This is the big reason why, when folks tell me I should get new sights for my Glock, I think in the back of my head “why? The current sights work just fine.” It’s true, I probably would shoot better with a $100 set of Trijicons, but I also shoot pretty satisfactorily with the $0 stock sights. It’s also true that at my level of proficiency, if Rob Pincus challenged me to a gunfight, I’d be pretty screwed, but it’s not roving Mike Pannones or Rob Leathams I’m worried about, it’s 2Cent the local crack dealer. Factory Glock sights and pistol practice twice a month are probably good enough for 2Cent, I think.

So my priority then is to achieve and maintain a good level of proficiency with my handgun without spending too much time practicing. That’s good enough for me, at least until I catch that pistol shooting bug that’s going around.

Finally, bringing it back around to DA/SA handguns, I actually started out shooting a DA/SA CZ-75 (which I mostly carried cocked and locked), and I would recommend DA/SA handguns to those who prefer their particular strengths. For me, though, the simplicity, durability, and ubiquity of the Glock family are the kind of pragmatic advantages that appeal to me personally.

However, what is “pragmatic” depends on who you are!



Nathaniel F

Nathaniel is a history enthusiast and firearms hobbyist whose primary interest lies in military small arms technological developments beginning with the smokeless powder era. In addition to contributing to The Firearm Blog, he runs 196,800 Revolutions Per Minute, a blog devoted to modern small arms design and theory. He can be reached via email at nathaniel.f@staff.thefirearmblog.com.


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  • Glenn J Fleming

    I carry a DA/SA but the one thing that is frustrating about it is the lack of smaller frame pistols. I currently carry a P225 but if I could find something smaller (in a DA/SA) I would

    • M1911

      CZ has some smaller models.

      • PaulC

        The p239 and the RAMI seem to be the smallest da/sa current-production pistols out there. I love da/sa SIGs, but the 239 and 225 seem so horribly size-inefficient. For the same capacity I can get a shield, pps or glock 43 for a fraction of the size and price. I wish they made similar guns in da/sa but for now us da/sa people seem to be out of luck.

        • M1911

          The 239 has never really worked for me. It feels top heavy in my hand. I think part of that is SIG’s high bore axis. I agree about the size inefficiency – the Glock 19 is the same size with higher capacity and a lower bore axis.

    • Anonymoose

      Why not P239?

      • Glenn J Fleming

        There really isnt that much size difference and the 225 is damn near like holding my 226 so thats nice

      • Nicks87

        I think the grip on the 239 is too small. Our detectives and chiefs (plain clothes officers) are authorized to carry them but a lot of them don’t because they have a harder time qualifying with them. They carry the 229 instead.

    • Kivaari

      The P225 is one of the best packing pistols to be had.

    • John Yossarian

      Does it have to be 9mm? There are smaller options in .380 and .32 ACP.

      But with a name like “Fleming”, you probably already know!

  • Jeffrey

    How about th berreta Storm

    • Nicks87

      Good guns, one of the best DA/SA pistols I’ve shot but they are a bit bulky for me.

    • Kivaari

      They are OK. I had to put a grip sleeve on mine since it felt too slippery. I like it as a companion to the CX4 Storm carbine.

  • Gideon Schlen

    Plastic striker fire gun’s dominance in wining law enforcement and military contracts is usually more to do with them being the cheapest things that meet the requirements rather than their merits or characteristics. Glock’s excellent marketing department trades heavily on this to create the perception that they are better and safer.

    There are definitely solid arguments for striker fire pistols, but price point and marketing usually has more to do with people’s decisions to buy them.

    • TexTopCat

      I agree that if a department is buying hundreds of guns, they have a duty to look at price and “cost of ownership”. Now, today there are numerous other fine weapons at a price point of the Glock (or lower, Steyr being one example). However, of the two Glocks that I own, they have never failed in thousands of rounds, are easy to maintain and should they need parts, the parts are very available at reasonable prices. So, for me, sometimes a carry a Glock and sometimes I carry a 1911 and practice with both.

      • Maintenance and repair costs/difficulties definitely tend to get overlooked in this sort of discussion; the universal ubiquity of Glocks– and Certified Armorers– means that any problems can be quickly and easily solved with everything from dirt cheap OEM to fancy high end competition aftermarket parts. It’s one of the main reasons why the AR platform is so popular, parts are everywhere and so are people who know how to install/repair them.

    • Nicks87

      Sorry but that’s not true at all. Sig Sauer has been offering some pretty good deals to LE over the last 10 years or so and they’ve been turned down by quite a few depts. because they want to keep their Glocks. A few depts. that switched over to Sigs (like mine) have realized that it was a mistake. Officer’s shooting proficiency went down when we switched from Beretta 92Ds to Sig P229s and Maintenance costs have gone up. For example, Sig recommends changing recoil springs at 4,000 rnds vs. Beretta who recommends they be changed at 10,000 on the 92 series. Also, as a firearms instructor I can tell you that the consistency from a striker fired pistol will deliver better results under stress vs DA/SA. With DA/SA your first and/or second shot will usually be off target if you are not used to the different trigger pulls. Plus, CZ P-09s are cheaper than Glock 17s so why arent Police depts switching to them if DA/SA is so much better?

      • retfed

        I love the D-series Berettas. Why don’t they make them anymore?
        My agency went from Beretta 96Ds to P229 DAKs, for the consistent trigger pulls. They are much like revolvers, but with more bangs.
        DA/SAs, in my opinion, are the worst of both worlds. They combine a long, heavy trigger pull with a short, light one. I think if you’re going to be really proficient, you should choose either the longer, heavier trigger of the DAO or the shorter, lighter trigger of the striker-fired action, and stick with that gun. Either one will work for you if you stay on one track. Bouncing back and forth is fun, and you can end up good with either one, but you’ll be great with neither.

        • Nicks87

          I didn’t like the 92D at first but after shooting it for a year or so I felt very proficient with it. Did my first instructor qualification with one and shot 50 out of 50. Yep, I was pretty proud of myself lol!

      • JLR84

        I’ve seen too many people show up to a basic pistol class with a DA/SA, throwing rounds over the shoulder of a paper target at 7 yards, because of the initial DA trigger. Hand them a Glock or other strike-fired gun, and you see an immediate and measurable improvement in their shooting.

        My first gun was a Beretta Px4 Storm because I didn’t know any better. I ditched it for the M&P long ago, and have never looked back.

      • Kelly Jackson

        According to the LA Times accidentally discharges increased 400% since 2012 after the Sheriffs department adopted the M&P replacing their old Beretta 92s.

        I’m sure as a firearms instructor you realize that officer didn’t mean to discharge his striker fired weapon at that black therapist laying in the street last week.

        You’re just sounding silly if you think any striker fired trigger is better than a Sig DA/SA.

        • retfed

          Please see my reply to JLR84 above. I think I should have put it here.
          Thank you.

        • john huscio

          That’s actually inaccurate. Glock is the most widely issued service sidearm, followed by hipowers and Beretta 92s….I doubt CZs are even in the top 5. Marketing hype strikes again…

          • Kelly Jackson

            You realize there’s an entire WORLD beyond the borders of the United States right?

          • john huscio

            Yep, and glocks/berettas/hipowers/makarovs/sigs all individually outnumber CZs in service across the world many times over.

          • Nicks87

            Yep and most of the civilized world’s police depts carry glocks. Check out the wiki page they list most of the countries that use them. Also, a negligent discharge is usually a training issue not an equipment issue.

          • Harry’s Holsters

            The CZ is cloned a lot and there are lots of clones in police service. Think 3rd world where they can’t afford new guns and are using well worn guns. The choice is solely effected by the cheapest solution and the inability to buy new guns.

          • john huscio

            Even if you combined all the knockoffs from Switzerland/Italy/turkey/Israel/china/north Korea and added that number to actual “government contract” CZ 75s, you probably still wouldn’t be sniffing glock’s contract numbers worldwide.

          • iksnilol

            I think the claim is in regards to amount of entities/organisations using it, not individual firearms.

          • Harry’s Holsters

            That is probably true but I’d say those numbers have only over turned in the past 10 years.

        • Swarf

          that officer didn’t mean to discharge his striker fired weapon at that black therapist laying in the street last week. That whole situation screams accidental discharge.

          4 times?

        • Kivaari

          negligent discharge

        • Nicks87

          I wasn’t knocking CZ at all. I think they make great pistols. The point I was making is that they are cheaper to purchase and maintain compared to some other pistols so if cost was an issue then why aren’t police depts. carrying CZs?

          • iksnilol

            momentum?

      • iksnilol

        I just am baffled that people are actually using the DA trigger, just keep it cocked and use the DA in case of ammo failure before tap/rack.

    • Harry’s Holsters

      Striker fired guns are easier to shoot at a lower level. Easier to teach someone not to put their finger on the trigger than proper trigger control under stress with two different pulls. The finger off the trigger should apply to all guns anyway.

    • Given the abominable quality of essential skills training in the overwhelming majority of police departments, I’d say the popularity of striker fired DAs probably has more to do with the fact that they only require “point it and pull the trigger” as far as instructions for use; that’s one of the main reasons– and openly stated, in some cases– why DA revolvers took so long to fall out of favor as issue sidearms. The fewer steps that come between identifying a threat and sending bullets downrange, the fewer skills that need to be trained into someone, and the fewer chances for them to %#$& any of those steps up under stress.

  • “…it’s 2Cent the local crack dealer”

    2Cent might be a military veteran with at least one combat deployment overseas. At least two of the BLM cop killers in the recent weeks have been military veterans.

    And then you have the self-radicalized Muslims attacking an event with rifles. There are numerous examples of shootings that involve people that actually visit the range and have some skills. Not everyone out there is a gang banger with a Hi Point that has never been shot.

    • Gabe Suarez has made this point numerous times and I’m inclined to agree with both of you. We live in the age of fourth generation warfare. Numerous parties hostile to the state are seeking legitimacy through violence. A pocket pistol is a poor choice for dealing with Micahs or Mateens. Hell, even a duty pistol is!

      • Nicks87

        Truck gun FTW!

      • Bill

        True. Unfortunately it is literally and physically impossible to prepare for all possible events, so we have to prepare for those that are most likely and foreseeable given each individuals’ lifestyle and circumstances. The Micahs and Mateens and the 9/11 hijackers are still outliers.

        As a cop and a trainer, even with the uptick in the murder of police officers this year, I’m still more concerned about my troop’s driving skills and propensity for killing themselves, and civilians, in car crashes than being ambushed by crazed gunmen.

        • I’m not suggesting that it would be possible to train for every scenario. I’m saying that training to defend against more than a single hoodlum makes sense, even for “average” CCers. Spree shootings and/or 4GW violence are outliers but in a country with 300+ million inhabitants they will occur annually.

          • Bill

            Absotootly. Many thugs operate in pairs or packs. I’d guess that after the first 2 or 3 of them get dumped, the rest will decide to go someplace else, but that assumes they have a modicum of critical thinking skills. Thus we introduce neocortical warfare and intellectually dominating the battlespace 😉

          • Gary Kirk

            Watch Jack Reacher.. I’ll take the leader out, one or two enthusiastic ones will try, but the others will run..

          • st4

            This. If Skynet has targeted your town and nukes are imminent, would you a) escape to, “minimum safe distance,” and call it or b) keep going for added insurance?

        • Kivaari

          BUT, the pocket pistol is with you and not at home.

        • Swarf

          Your troops are also civilians.

          • Bill

            I can ALWAYS count on someone trying to wring out that old, tired trope.

          • retfed

            Of course, Swarf is using “civilian” to mean “non-military” as a subtle way to malign civil law enforcement. But military pistol training is abysmal. When I was an instructor at a major LE academy, I hated teaching veterans, because they knew next to nothing about pistols, a lot of what they knew was wrong (e.g., empty-chamber carry), and they wouldn’t listen to a non-vet like me. Give me a 5-foot, 95-pound woman to teach any day. She’ll listen, absorb, and put forth the effort. And most civil LEOs are much better trained with pistols than most military are.
            (Also, in common usage, “civilian” means anyone outside your professional field, especially one who wants to tell you how to do your job. Doctors and nurses call non-medical people “civilians”, and I’ve heard teachers call non-educators “civilians.” But it must be said with the proper sneer to be effective.)

          • Bill

            There aren’t many professions outside of the military AND policing where you swear an oath to serve the public and uphold the law and Constitution.

            I also far prefer trainees that have zero experience, and no bad habits to unlearn.

          • Nicks87

            Webster’s dictionary defines civilian as someone who is NOT in the military, a fire-fighter or police officer. So no, we are not civilians regardless if you agree or not.

      • A pistol’s what you carry when you’re not expecting trouble, sure, but it’s good for the vast majority of trouble you’re likely to encounter, and it’s a lot more practical to carry a pistol around than to roll down Main Street strapped for Mogadishu.

        • What’s even more effective and practical is carrying the highest capacity sidearm you can and developing a more flexible mindset. I’ve made this point before, but in a country of 300 million people the 1-in-30 million events will happen 10 times a year. Will it happen to you? Probably never. Will it happen to someone? Guaranteed.

    • Bob

      It is also possible that a helicopter will drop off a bunch of North Korean commandos, but you won’t catch me wearing full body armor and carrying a grenade launcher any time soon. Odds are much more likely for the average person to find themselves in a confrontation with a petty thug than a deranged exsoldier. That said, more training is better, because it COULD happen…

      • I am not talking about some Veteran that snapped, I am talking about a Veteran that has decided that perhaps crime is the way he is going to earn a living.

        Right now about 7.5% of Americans have served in the military with a much heavier percentage having seen combat than anytime except post-WWII. So the idea that 2Cent, the local crack dealer, being a military vet with a combat deployment isn’t unheard of.

        • Bob

          All well and good, but if you had to place money on it, you’d be crazy to bet on a vet. Anything could happen, but are you really gonna work on getting to Navy SEAL level of training just in case of something extreme? (Don’t get me wrong, I want to keep improving my skill…)

        • CommonSense23

          The vast majority of vets don’t see combat. The last two shooters were a IT guy and a carpenter. The vast majority of the combat arms guys are poorly trained by the military to to use a pistol.

          • Gary Kirk

            Yesss..

        • Harry’s Holsters

          One thing to think about is if they are doing crime for profit i in form of personal property theft then they will likely have a handgun. How many soldiers are issued or are trained on using a handgun for combat?

        • Around here it’s more likely to be 2Cent’s country cousin Dime-A-Duzz, the rural meth dealer.

          I’ve faced down everything from scrub highschoolers to professional asskickers in highly uncivil encounters before, and if you’re paying attention to what they’re doing and saying and how they carry themselves, it’s almost always immediately obvious just how bad your day (and/or theirs) is going to get.

    • The_Champ

      I’d say statistically Nathaniel is correct. You are far more likely to have a run in with a common criminal. Mass shooters and terrorist attacks are front and center in the news 24/7 but statistically are not the norm.

      • That is real comforting until you find yourself facing someone that is skilled.

        There are numerous examples of shootings that outside of the “norm” that many gun owners thing. I remember mentioning the unusual 3yards/3shots to a friends of mine that is a cop, he thought it was funny because every single police shooting he has been in as been with someone more than 25 yards away.

        • The_Champ

          Well the more training the merrier, obviously. But not everyone has time to train to 100% efficiency, (aka level max operator extreme), and Nathaniel is right to play the odds and train for the most likely encounter.

          And lets all be realistic here. Most of us train hard for this sort of thing because a) it is our profession, and/or b) we enjoy it.

          We are all far more likely to die in a car accident, or drown, or fall off something high, or ingest the wrong substance, or burn in a house fire. So if we were truly playing the odds we’d all spend our time at driving schools or dieticians, or making our houses more fire safe.

          • Standard Velocity

            This is the best reply on TFB today. Thank you.

          • n0truscotsman

            Thank you for injecting reality into the concealed carry discussion. Couldn’t have said it better myself.

          • I am not talking about having Navy SEAL level training, just the ability to hit man sized targets from 0-25 yards within reasonable time frames. The skill level required isn’t that hard, I’ve seen it developed in a 40 hours of training, and can be retained with purposeful practice as little as once a quarter.

        • It’s probably not advantageous for most people to base their beliefs about the commonality of criminality on the experiences of a cop who’s been involved in multiple shooting incidents on the job; there’s a bit of a gap in the probability of encountering certain criminals in certain situations between that experience and the experience of the average ordinary citizen. Most firefighters have a considerably different perspective on house fires than the average homeowner as well, but it doesn’t make sense for most people to have a ten thousand gallon pressurized water tank in their front yard “just in case” when a ten pound ABC extinguisher in the kitchen and the garage will handle 99% of incidents they’re likely to encounter.

          • You can’t have it both ways, a vast majority of people use the 3 yards, 3 rounds, and 3 seconds statistic that was derived from police shootings as justification about why they don’t practice a wide variety of skills.

    • Gary Kirk

      90+% of military veterans are not proficient combat pistol shooters.. And most of the veterans that go off the rails weren’t really “front line” boys.. And I don’t really appreciate how you characterized veterans there..

      • A am hardly characterizing veterans as they are normal people with most being law abiding, but not all of them are going to be on the straight and narrow post service. And there are a number of cases where veterans chose or found themselves in life of crime post service.

      • iksnilol

        veterans are people, and just like everyone else there are criminal veterans.

        • Nicks87

          A big +1 for that comment. I just finished a training course where they talked about veterans joining gangs during and after leaving the service. The numbers are surprising. By the way I am a vet so I’m not disparaging them by any means just stating facts.

          • iksnilol

            People who get offended at the reality of (some) veterans being gang members are in my opinion too caught up in veteran worship.

  • Rousso

    First thing that one has to care about is:

    Do I have enough dough to get me bailed out and keep me out of prison, if I use that gun?

    • Depends entirely on where you live. Where I live a clear cut self defense shooting will not get you arrested.

      Also the bail for manslaughter, agg assault, or murder is typically quite prohibitively expensive. Like buying a house cash expensive.

      • Rousso

        That’s the point.
        How the cops are supposed to know if it is “a clear cut self defense shooting”, or not?

        It is much better to get beaten on the street than to get beaten in the prison toilet, and have to sleep in a big room full of thugs and murderers. Using a gun for self defence is stupid.

        • Nicks87

          “Using a gun for self defence is stupid”. I think you might be on the wrong website. It’s ok, just hit Ctrl +H and your history will pop up and you can return to whatever left wing nonsense website you were looking for.

          • The_Champ

            Haha, yep.

          • Rousso

            It is stupid. Because it is going to cause more troubles than using a pepper gas or something. The kind of troubles that average man is not going to be able to handle.

          • LOL, pepper spray isn’t a pleasant experience but it rarely stops an attacker.

          • Rousso

            I used it. It stopped the attacker.
            He couldn’t see me, he couldn’t breathe, he couldn’t do a thing.

            And I still got arrested and taken to a police station. And spend the night talking to the cops.
            Had I not had a broken nose I doubt that I would have been able to prove that he attacked me first.

            Look, can someone help me with grammar here? I have forgotten all the lessons. It’s been a long, long time since the last one. Should I have said,

            “I had a broken nose and that helped me to prove that he attacked me first, but if I had not, …?”

          • What type of horrible jurisdiction do you live in?

            Your attacker wasn’t very motivated then. Talk to cops that have used pepper spray a lot, it has a very low incapacitation rate. A lot of cops around here don’t even carry pepper spray anymore because of that.

          • Bill

            I don’t carry pepper spray anymore, for a lot of reasons, the first being that the TASER is a lot more efficient. Having said that, part of OC training in the Academy includes getting sprayed and then fighting an instructor, to prove to the trainees that they can still function.

            The sorts of broken nose examples are problematic, because I see both sides. Rolling up on two dudes bleeding in the gutter typically results in 2 claims of self-defense and some creative storytelling.

          • Rousso

            This is exactly what happened then

          • Rousso

            If a cop shoots someone he will get away with it. But average man will rather have a big problem.

          • Nicks87

            Maybe in European countries or some 2nd or 3rd world s**t hole but in America will still have rights (for the time being) and I will not let anybody tell me it’s a stupid idea to carry a gun for self defense.

          • Bob

            I think we might have a little disconnect here. A gun is not so you can escape a broken nose or a beating, it is for situations in which someone is about to get killed. There are numerous defense experts who advocate unarmed martial artsarts, tasers and pepper spray to avoid using a firearm unless absolutely necessary, as well as saying that it you are only going to get punched, just take it.

            Basically a gun is for use when some guy is stabbing his girlfriend to death in front of you, for when a thug is shooting at you beyond the distance of pepper spray, when you need to stop the bad guy NOW, not just squirt some pepper spray at them and hope it works.

          • Rousso

            That’s a different talk, Bob.

            Defense of other people is not the same as self defense. And if a REAL thug decides to attack you he will rather sucker punch you or put a knife to your groin before you realize that there is a problem and when you don’t expect it

          • st4

            So what’s your plan if this happens again? Run like a gazelle? Better work on that cardio..

          • Rousso

            No.
            Don’t go to dangerous places and don’t get into conflict with dangerous people. First.
            Use a gas pistol, not a real gun. Use a real gun for home defense, but not on the street.

            On the street, be cautious and remember that cops are not friends of the people, cops are enforcers of order and an armed person is a suspect for them. Cops arrest people and put them in a jail. And jail is a much more dangerous place than the street, and there is nothing one can use for self defense.

          • Anon

            “Use a gas pistol”. Okay, now I know that you’re either a troll or retarded.

            Your paranoia isn’t reasonable in most cases (statistically speaking) and will get you killed, because do you actually want to possibly get into a gunfight/situation where you need to shoot someone with a gas pistol?

            Also, have you heard of “Stand-Your-Ground” laws in some states?

          • Rousso

            Armchair commandos like you, kid, have never faced a real criminal in a confrontation and have never had a personal experience of serious violence, that’s the reason of all this arrogance and rudeness that you and others here resort to.

          • Anon

            Ad hominem is not an argument, and last time I checked, acting like you’re right and everyone else is wrong without supporting evidence (hint, anecdotes aren’t supporting evidence) is being both arrogant and rude.

          • Nicks87

            Who is being rude/arrogant? I’ve simply stated facts. You seem to be the one stretching the truth to fit your own narrative.

          • st4

            Folks, we may have the making of a new, “Gecko45,” here right now on TFB!

          • Nicks87

            What if the wind blew the pepper spray back into your eyes instead of the attackers? You would have more than a broken nose and tears running down your face.

          • Nicks87

            If I’m a criminal with a gun and you “pepper spray” me, I’m going to shoot you… (just for the record, I’m not a criminal)

          • Rousso

            Sure you are not a criminal, I can see that. You have never seen a criminal except for on TV.

            “O’Mara told reporters that the interview was intended to help increase the number of donations to Zimmerman’s nearly exhausted legal defense fund, which would pay the costs for Zimmerman’s legal defense as well as for shelter and security… ABC News’ Barbara Walters also said that Zimmerman was in desperate need of money and was worried about the safety of his family”

            Imagine, if the dude that he shot was a gang member or something, if the situation doesn’t look bad enough.

          • iksnilol

            He does have a point. Some places the legal trouble is seriously not worth it. Better to just stab them and dump ’em in the forest.

        • Most cops aren’t idiots. And can process the evidence and quickly have a good idea what happened.

          First off lets correct someone you obviously don’t understand. When you are arrested you are booked into a jail, not prison. In most states only people that have convicted of crimes go to prison. Jails can get violent, but typically nothing happens because everyone there is like you awaiting trail.

          Second a fight in jail you might get injured but typically the guards are going to stop it. A fight on the street there is a good chance you are going to get killed these days.

          • Rousso

            Most cops don’t care. And won’t risk their job for something like another man’s chance to get raped in a toilet. He had a gun, he must have been prepared for the possible consequences. The evidence is more often than not is not going to be obvious.

          • Nicks87

            What? “Risk their job”? It’s either a good shoot or it wasn’t. All the cops are doing is gathering evidence. If you are cooperative and not a flight risk and you dont have a record you probably wont be arrested.

          • See the George Zimmerman case until the race baiters got involved.

          • Rousso

            The evidence more often than not is not going to be obvious. It is not that simple.

          • Nicks87

            Yes it is that simple. If you get arrested after using a firearm for self defense and the judge sets bail that you cannot afford to pay, chances are it was a bad shoot and your actions were unlawful. The point is this: If you choose to carry concealed, know the laws in your state and ask yourself if the threat has intent, capability and opportunity to cause serious bodily harm or death to yourself and/or others. If the answer is YES then your actions should be justified. Obviously every situation is different and I am NOT giving legal advice but that’s about as simply as I can put it without writing a book on the subject.

          • Rousso

            If you use a gun for self defense against an average man, his relatives will do a lot to put you in prison. You will have to get a lawyer to defend you in court. That’s expensive. Do you have the dough?

            If you use a guin for self defense against a real criminal, his partners in crime will not let it go as simple as that. You will have to find a lot of dough to settle the problem with them.

          • Anon

            You’re an idiot who has no idea what you’re talking about. You might get someone killed with your asinine advice. Also, don’t some states protect you from the relatives suing you?

          • Rousso

            Tell me about your experience smartass

          • Anon

            Tell me an example where I’m wrong. Go on, tell me about your nonexistent friends that went to jail for a “good shoot”.

          • Rousso

            Even if the cops let you go home, there will still be a lot of legal trouble and huge expenses, are you capable of understanding that?

          • Anon

            So what you’re saying is that you’d rather die?

            Yes I’m fully capable of comprehending the possibility of that happening, it’s just that if you’d rather die than have possible legal problems and expenses, you should probably reevaluate your philosophy, now.

          • Rousso

            No. That’s not what I meant.

            First, I said that in a situation of being in need of financial resourses for your legal defense, if there is no money you can get into a bigger trouble than the one that made you use the gun and brought you to the court. And because people often overestimate the risk of being killed, like in a fight on the street or in a bar, and that’s the places where most people use guns “for self-defence”, there is a danger of making a mistake, i.e. using “excessive force”. And going to jail for that.

            If that happens, a man will find himself in a much more dangerous environment and not being able to defend himself against much more numerous threats and on top of that, for most people all this is going to turn into a financial disaster, too.

            So, I said that the first thing before using a gun should be a consideration about all of the aforementioned risks.

            Also I said that most people imagine a self-defense situation as something that might be seen on TV in soap operas. But in the real life it doesn’t happen like that.

          • Anon

            If you’re in a situation and you have to think about whether you should use a gun or not, the answer’s probably no. It’s usually pretty damn obvious whether you’d be justified in using one or not.

            It’s not that difficult to avoid using “excessive force”.

          • Rousso

            Read this
            Self-Defense Realities: Justified vs. Excessive Force
            on personaldefenseworld site

          • Anon

            I don’t see how that proves your point, because I already know the meaning of proportionate response and that shooting someone is a last resort to begin with.

          • Rousso

            Than you shouldn’t have a problem with what I’m saying.

          • Anon

            No, because it’s better to be judged by twelve than carried by six, period.

            Correct me if I’m wrong, but in your original comment, you made the opposite argument because you said that you wouldn’t risk using a gun because you don’t have the money or whatever.

          • Rousso

            I said, do not use a gun and put your freedom at risk if you don’t have enough money to deal with the court, because it’s better to be carried by six being killed in a fight than to be to be carried by six after being raped by 26.

            Because also, in most situations a gas pistol will be good enough to use for self-defence.

          • Anon

            “because it’s better to be carried by six being killed in a fight than to be to be carried by six after being raped by 26”.

            …Oh my good God above, I’m done, you lost me there.

          • Rousso

            That’s OK, because I know your kind.
            The kind of man that has a plan until he gets punched in the face

          • Anon

            As Nathaniel F. told you, you should have your brain studied.

          • st4

            Why are they so obsessed w/prison rape???

            “The woman doth protests too much, methinks.”

          • Anon

            I don’t know, but he’s seriously reminding me of a mall ninja with all of his crap about rape.

          • Nicks87

            Wow, just wow. I cant even deal with your ignorance anymore. Good luck to you sir, in your endeavors, whatever they may be.

          • Ok enough with the battle back and forth it’s not the place for it.

          • iksnilol

            No, in Norway you’d get arrested for instance. And it isn’t an unique country in that regard.

            And if you have a bit bad reputation in the area then you’re double-screwed.

          • billyoblivion

            You probably need to check with reality on that. It diverges significantly from your beliefs.

          • Rousso

            Tell me about that, please! I am so inexperienced

          • Bill

            1: The world isn’t fair
            2: Lawyers ARE expensive
            3: Prosecutors have to sell the case to both and arraigning judge or magistrate and a Grand Jury to even get a felony complaint underway.
            4: Prosecutors, at least good ones, listen to the cops who handled the case
            5: Don’t even think about complaining about how hard it is to prove self-defense after what’s happened to cops in the last couple months. We are eventually going to have to sign out a bullet from the city council, county commissioners or state senate before we can shoot somebody, no matter how desperately they need to be shot.

            The ONLY case of “self-defense” I’ve seen prosecuted locally involved a guy who thought he heard attackers on the roof of his single-wide. It didn’t help his case that he unloaded a full mag from an AK into his roof, walls and wife while under under the influence of meth.

          • Rousso

            That’s what I’m trying to explain to the armchair commandos here

          • billyoblivion

            YOU need to do the work, or you won’t believe it.

          • Well you happen to be talking to one who does care.

        • Anon

          Oh I don’t know, don’t do something as supremely moronic as shoot them in the back?

  • Ben Loong

    As someone who started out his shooting hobby on rented range guns (primarily single-action 1911s, DA/SA Tanfoglios, and occasionally DA/SA revolvers), my decision to on what to get for my first gun was really dependent on my limited shooting experience back then. While I was quite comfortable with single action triggers at the range, I was quite worried about loading and unloading my carry pistol in my home, and on safely conceal carrying a pistol on my person.

    That’s why I wanted my first carry gun to be a SIG P226/8. The decocking feature and the double-action trigger were attractive to a neophyte shooter like myself. Unfortunately, (in retrospect, quite fortunately) I wasn’t able to afford a SIG at the time and instead got another DA/SA pistol, a Tanfoglio Force/Armscor MAPP.

    Ironically, the pistol that most influenced how I carry was the cheap, entry-level 9mm Armscor 1911 that I got as a range gun. For some reason, even though bought it a month or so after my Tanfoglio, I got it earlier. So I ended up practicing shooting and carrying on a 1911, which taught me that condition one was a perfectly safe way to carry. That experience carried over to my experience carrying my Tanfoglio, on which I realized that it was a much safer method of carry than having to manually lower the hammer on a DA/SA with no decocker.

    In the end I felt perfectly comfortable carrying either an SA or DA/SA in condition one. (This habit actually carried over to my first striker-fired pistol, a Ruger SR9, which I picked because it had a manual safety.)

    Lastly, another thing that influenced my decision for a DA/SA was how much easier it is to dry fire with one. I learned a about trigger control just from dry firing my gun at home.

    • M1911

      Why load and unload your carry gun at home? I just leave mine loaded 24×7.

      • Ben Loong

        Like I said, I like to do a lot of dry firing practice at home.

        Also at the time I wasn’t even aware that was even a viable option. I was worried about wearing out the springs and whatnot.

  • Joel

    Just a couple of comments on the vids.
    1. Most pistols have two different trigger pulls, unless the user fully releases the trigger on every shot. The Glock first pull is definitely different from its second pull, when the second pull is fired from reset.
    2. The longer and heavier DA pull of DA/SA pistols often encourages users to get their finger on the trigger earlier in order to achieve speed. Chris raises this briefly when he mentions the “press out” technique. Thus, the DA/SA gun actually encourages earlier trigger engagement compared with a safe action gun. This may not be more safe, a prominent point Chris is trying to make in his DA/SA advocacy. So, I suspect that the “safety” Chris finds in DA/SA guns mostly revolves around AIWB carry. I would note that it’s easy to see some press out proponents fingering the trigger during their draw strokes while their pistol is pointed over their target and even over their berm. There was a contention thread on this issue in Green’s forum some time ago.

    • AIWB carry was the initial driving factor for my switch to DA/SA, but the more I looked into it and studied it, the more convinced I became of some of the other benefits. First, I firmly believe that guys who carry behind the hip muzzle themselves while holstering far more often than AIWB people, but because they can’t see the muzzle when they’re holstering, they are less conscious of it. Regardless of carry position, having a hammer or something like the Glock “Gadget” adds a layer of safety that is vastly underrated. Second, the length of the DA trigger pull is a good hedge against a negligent discharge, but less because of getting on the trigger too early and more for the unconscious “trigger checking” that is frequently observed in situations of extreme stress when the gun has been drawn but the decision to fire has not yet been made.

      • Hi Chris, thanks for commenting! Your videos are always extremely well thought out and presented, without wasting the viewer’s time. Keep up yhe good work!

        You and a couple of its other advocates have done a lot to convince me of the benefits of AIWB carry, and I think something like the Gadget is, as you describe, another mechanical safety tool to help with that and other carry methods. It’s cheaper than that pair of Trijicons, too. 😉

      • Joel

        Thanks for taking the time to respond to my points. And, thanks for the well done videos.

      • Marcus D.

        My personal experience with a DA trigger (Kahr) is that it is harder to fire if ‘trigger checked,” which I assume you to mean partially pulling the trigger before deciding to fire. When you do that with a Kahr, it feels like it is stacking, but if you go from “zero” to “fire,” it is a smooth, long pull that is very consistent with a surprise break. The only real issue I have with that particular trigger is that the gun does not fire until the trigger is almost all the way back, which makes it difficult to maintain the trigger finger perpendicular to the trigger face.

        My problem with DA/SA pistols–which is admittedly a very small sample size– is that the DA is a bit too stiff and the SA too mushy. With practice, the DA is not a real issue, but I just can’t stand mushy triggers! I guess I’ve been spoiled by the 1911 SA trigger.

        And I know I am not the only one. I bought my daughter an FNX .45 for Christmas, which is DA/SA with a decocker. Her firearms instructor (a Glockmeister) couldn’t handle the DA pull, but my daughter has no problem with it at all, and she shoots that gun more accurately than her 9 mm Taurus pocket pistol. (At first, she didn’t like my little Kahr, but the more she shot it, the more she liked it.)

  • billyoblivion

    Where spending extra on gear gets you a significant bump in performance you should really consider it. Going from body shots at 15 yards to head shots at 15 yards might, in the days of (relatively) cheap body armor, make the difference between going home and not.

    Remember the mope in Dallas was wearing hard plates, and one of the officers got some good center mass shots on him and was killed for his trouble.

    2Cent the Crack Dealer is carrying large amounts of cash on him in a fairly competitive field. You can get hard plates and a slick carrier for less than a set of rims.

    Also while 2Cent is the second most likely problem you’ll face (2Cent’s customers are likely to be the biggest problem, and they’ve already traded their armor to 2Cent for a bag of crack), there are other problems out there that move in packs and are hard cases.

    Me, I prefer striker fired pistols because while you can train away the difference between the first and second round, that training time could also be spent on better things.

  • Bill

    Articles like this sort of make me wistful for the days when the argument was Model 10 versus Model 19 versus Security Six. You focused on the front sight and trigger press, that was it, end of story, no further. And maybe added a set of Pachmayer stocks.

    After going through zillions of handguns, the only thing I’ve learned is that the only things that matter are using what you have to the best of your ability at the right time with adequate speed and accuracy. 99.999999999% of the time the gun is irrelevant compared to the user.

    • Grey Beard

      Thank you Bill. You gave me a chuckle and made me remember my old Security Six that got Pachmayers slapped on as soon as I could buy a set. In my misspent youth one of my instructors preached “speed is nice but accuracy is final.” and I never forgot that in all the shooting I have done through the years. Despite having to shoot all the way back to the 50 yard line the old 357 slung lead true for a decade before I got the option to buy a semi auto. I love my P220, but your post made me miss the old Security Six.

  • Anonymoose

    I like having second-strike capability and good ergos, and I’ve never minded the trigger on my Sigs, HKs, or Beretta. I still like Glocks and M&Ps, and I’m really excited for the Schmeisser.

    • M1911

      I have never understood why people think second strike is a good thing. If you pull the trigger and the gun doesn’t go bang, the correct response is tap-rack-bang.

      • Anonymoose

        What if it’s a hangfire? It *probably* won’t kill you if a cartridge goes off outside the chamber, but it’s still highly undesirable.

        • M1911

          Hang fire? Seriously? When have you ever seen a hang fire with modern, smokeless powder?

          If you are carrying for defensive purposes and your gun doesn’t fire, are you going to wait 30 seconds before ejecting the round?

          FFS.

          • RickH

            No, but it’s really really quick to keep your eye on the target and pull the trigger again. Every once and awhile (though rarely anymore) you can have a hard primer. If it doesn’t fire after the second pull, then eject.

          • M1911

            I strongly disagree. The chance of a misfire on quality defensive ammunition is low. The chance of a misfired, center-fire cartridge actually firing when you hit it a second time is low. The proper response, taught in every defensive shooting class that I’ve taken (Mas Ayoob, Randy Cain, Mike Seeklander, etc.) has always been the same: if the gun doesn’t fire, tap-rack-bang.

            This works if the problem was actually a misfeed. Or if the magazine hadn’t been fully seated. Or if it was a misfire.

          • retfed

            No.
            On a range, you have time to fool around trying to get a bad round to fire again. In a fight, you have to get that shot off right now. Odds are, if your round didn’t pop the first time it won’t the second time, either, and you’ve just wasted half a second. The odds of having an unseated magazine, or a bad or sideways primer, are much greater than getting a hangfire.
            If you get a click, tap it, rack it, and reengage. If you want to just pull the trigger again to make it fire, you should carry a revolver.

      • mig1nc

        Lets ask Michael Brown what he thinks of second strike on a DA/SA 🙂

        I think there’s at least one use case for it.

        • mig1nc

          For those that didn’t follow, when officer Wilson tried to fire to get Brown off of him, the first round didn’t go off. It’s possible the gun was slightly out of battery. Officer Wilson pulled the trigger again and this time it fired.

  • Some Rabbit

    There are at least 3 DA/SA (decocking) striker fired guns that I’m aware of made by Walther, Schmeisser and Canek. The Canek TP9v2 simply being a faithful copy of the Walther P99.

    • mig1nc

      Thanks for posting that, I had never heard of the Schmeisser so I had to google it. Seems very nice. Hopefully they can make a successfully market play.

  • Gary Foster

    Not a darn thing wrong with da/sa handguns. I carry a S&W 5904 and love it. Good gun. The glock type guns are good but not the best for everyone. The whole discussion is all about money and gun writer job security.

  • Will

    The first handgun I carried was a 1911 while in the Army. I love it and still own them.
    The handgun I carried, trained with and relied upon, 1985 to present day is the Glock 22. Rest assured my CCW pistol is a Glock.
    I am comfortable and competent with Glocks. I can use them without excessive thought processes being required.
    Yes, I STILL train and practice with a Glock on a reqular basis.
    It’s up to the individuals tastes and abilities.

    • retfed

      A Glock 22 in 1985? The .40 S&W caliber wasn’t invented and marketed until 1990. Are you really H.G. Wells in disguise? Or was that a typo?

  • Thanks for sharing my videos, Nathaniel! You make some very good points (although I have to admit I’m not sure I know what a “concealed carry lifestyle” is). For the average concealed carry permit holder, I would absolutely recommend prioritizing simplicity of operation when selecting a handgun. Double action only pistols and striker fired pistols (preferably with stock triggers) are a good solution for most people.

    That said, I don’t think one has to be a super-dedicated handgun shooter in order to take advantage of the benefits of a DA/SA pistol. Somewhere between the “concealed carry wizards” and the casual gun owners are guys like yourself. You may not be interested in sharpening your skills with every trip to the range, but if if you’re are actually putting in some practice time to maintain a certain level of proficiency, you can probably run a handgun better than 95% of gun owners in the country. With a minimal amount of coaching, most “gun guys” can learn to run a DA trigger reasonably well in an afternoon. Same thing with learning to reflexively decock. That’s not to say I think you should switch from your Glocks, I just don’t think DA/SA pistols have to be reserved for some supposed elite class of super-shooters.

    Overall though, I think you’re on to something and you mentioned several points I plan to address in future videos on the topic of DA pistols.

    • Hi Chris,

      See elsewhere about the top notch quality of your videos, keep up the good work and all that.

      Re: “concealed carry lifestyle”, neither do I!

      I am a big proponent of stock Glock triggers, to the point where I wish Walther, H&K, and SIG would add a few pounds to their factory triggers. 7-8 pounds is pretty good for a striker-fired gun, combining reasonable safety with user friendliness.

      As I hinted at in the post, while I choose striker-fired over DA/SA guns, I actually do still maintain a baseline of proficiency with DA/SA firearms, specifically my SIG P220. This is partly because that gun is a joy to shoot, but also just because I have some duty to do that as a writer and commentator. If someone in my general skills bracket, or even someone who practiced less frequently chose a DA/SA handgun as their carry gun, I wouldn’t bat an eye. The general point you make that they’re far from obsolete is a very good one, I think.

      Having said that, my general recommendation to new shooters who want to carry are Glocks and M&Ps (specifically those two because of their triggers and ubiquity), because of the simplicity factor. And, as I always tell every person I introduce to shooting “the great thing about a Glock is that if you don’t like it, you can always find someone who will buy it from you for close to what you paid for it!”

      • Gary Kirk

        To new shooters getting into the lifestyle, or just buying there first gun? Either way, the Glock is a great gun, and would probably be with most for their foreseeable future.. Or people hate them, and then wander unknowingly into who knows what.. I prefer to not “recommend” a specific brand, size, caliber, etc.. But ask what their idea is, then take them out with a few full-size guns.. And go down in size , and adjust caliber from there..

        • In my social circle, I am often the “gun guy”, which means I get asked a lot. My general recommendation won’t necessarily fit everybody, but that’s the nice thing about guns keeping their value so well.

    • Harry’s Holsters

      Are there a set of standards where once you reach them with a striker fired handgun a DA/SA starts to make more sense?

      I do a ton of dry fire and have decent marksmanship and out shoot most people in local classes but I’m not taking maximum advantage of the gun’s mechanical accuracy yet. 5-8 inches at 25 yards is my flex zone depending on the range day.

      I know Ernest Langdon has made very similar statements your but he really didn’t say what level is ideal to convert to a DA/SA. I can only afford time wise to shoot 3000-5000 rounds a year and the schedule is not consistent. Most of that is in 400 round range sessions. I can make time for dry fire though.

      Thanks for any advise!

      • Bill

        “Are there a set of standards where once you reach them with a striker fired handgun a DA/SA starts to make more sense?”

        I doubt it. Mastering a trigger is more mental and physical on your part than the pistols’. I might recommend actually reducing your round count per each range session and increasing dry fire. 400 rounds can be a long day, situationally dependent. I’ve found that reducing the number of rounds fired forces me to focus on quality, versus quantity. I’ve actually gone to the range with 10 rounds, which forced me to make each shot closer to perfect.

        • Harry’s Holsters

          The hard thing for me is getting to the range. Lately I’ve been dry firing only 3-5 minutes a day. For a while I was doing 30 and then it went down to 15. Within 15 yards I can get a 2 inch group regularly. Past 15 things start to open up.

      • I wouldn’t say there is a specific skill level one has to reach before they are “ready” for DA/SA. With the right training, a complete novice could start on the platform and become totally competent in a short period of time. Some people can be shown how to run a DA trigger and an SA trigger and then you show them the decock and you never have to mention any of it to them again… it just all clicks for them right away and they can move on and focus on other aspects of running the gun. On the other hand, I’ve been on a firing line next to a fellow student in a class who considered himself an “instructor” and not only could he not hit anything with the DA/SA pistol he supposedly “shoots in matches all the time”, he had to be reminded to decock it after every string of fire… every time, for three days.

        So I think there’s an element of all this that no one really talks about because we can’t really quantify it. Maybe it’s related to a person’s natural mechanical aptitude, or manual dexterity. Some people require less coaching and fewer repetitions before certain actions become second nature to them. So to answer your question, if you think you might be able to benefit from a DA/SA pistol, you really just need to give it a try and see what works for you and what parts of it might be a challenge, and whether working to overcome the challenges is still worth the potential benefits.

    • Gary Kirk

      Like you I started with a Beretta, and probably for just about the same reasons.. Thankfully still have that 96FS, learned to work the DA trigger pretty good, but was really quick to learn follow ups. And the decocking always got me funny looks from the “flock” bros at the range, not going to mention the 1911 crowd ( though I am one of them now, still keep my 96 at bedside..). They couldn’t get having to be proficient with two trigger pulls, and I didn’t care.. One thing I love about the DA/SA is second strike capability before doing a failure drill.. But just me

    • iksnilol

      I always considered Glock triggers and the like to be for some super shooters. I mean, no safety and more mushy requires more skill to master IMO.

      • john huscio

        Less steps to operate (pull, aim, shoot) and one consistent pull make glocks (or basically most other polymer strikers) extremely easy to use IMO.

    • Kivaari

      Excellent. Better than most I have viewed.

    • Tierlieb

      Hi Chris,

      I get the impression that you do train a lot yourself (and damn you, you got me to consider the PX4 instead of the CZ P-09 again…), but you do not teach many other “ordinary” people: I agree that you can learn to run a DA trigger in an afternoon. And everyone you will meet at a pistol course can do it. But those are already a self-selecting group.

      99% of gun owners will not ever spent a full afternoon to learn it. If they spend 2 hours per week on shooting, they are already in the upper 10% regarding their training level. And that time needs to cover every aspect of shooting, not just trigger press.

      As an example, I got people in my IPSC group who do well enough (as in scoring 50% on a level 3 match), but given a Beretta 92 (which I admittedly consider the most atrocious DA trigger I’ve ever encountered on a full-size pistol), they’ll start missing on their first shot.

      Now, I do not think that is a mistake of yours. Your videos are self-selecting in the same way that pistol courses are: People that we would call “casual” will never watch them anyway. So as an opinion from one serious shooter to another (as I understood them when I first saw them at LG), I consider them very valuable.

  • Kivaari

    That’s a well done presentation. Recently, I bought a Beretta PX4 to go along with a CX4 carbine. Beretta’s free magazine and pouch promotion for anyone buying a PX4, fit into building a two-gun combination. After decades of using Glocks, I find I still prefer Glocks. I’d recommend the Beretta PX4 “C” or constant action, as they are more Glock-like. Unless, you are a new shooter where old habits wont get in the way of learning how to use a new system. For me, I’d be OK with it if I were using it as a working gun. ecause I would move the other guns to the toy category and train, train, train with the new pistol until it became the dominant system.

  • Joe

    The only question you have to ask yourself is, How much is your life worth?

    • Rousso

      In jail?
      Not much

      • Joe

        Your going to have to elaborate on that one a bit.

        • Rousso

          See below.
          Armchair commandos here don’t understand me

          • Anon

            You’re the one making unsubstantiated claims.

          • iksnilol

            Not really unsubstantiated. People have been screwed over for SD, especially in other countries.

            Doesn’t hurt to be careful.

          • Anon

            It doesn’t hurt to be careful, I agree, and to be fair, I’m talking from the perspective of living in the US and in a state (or country) that is unlikely to prosecute you for a “good shoot”.

            Also, I can’t take this guy seriously with all of his talk about being raped and killed in prison like it’s inevitable.

  • nova3930

    a good group at 15 yds is what I call MOA…Minute Of A$$hole. If you can consistently and rapidly hit the SOB COM you’re good to go….

  • iksnilol

    Wait, wut?

    I just carry DA/SA cocked and locked. The DA is more in case of a hard primer or something (rather a heavier trigger pull for a shot than having to tap and rack).

    I must be doing something wrong I guess, though it works fine for me.

  • Slim934

    Didn’t glock used to sell a dedicated pistol for dry fire only that would reset the trigger automatically after each trigger pull? I think it had a red slide.

    That would be a nice training aid to have. The biggest problem with dry firing a striker fired pistol is having to rerack every time. I would imagine this instilling some bad habits into the shooter. Under stress you tend to fall back to the level of your training. I would imagine if your training involves a lot of reracking the slide after each trigger pull you’re a sight more likely to have an issue if you really have to use it.

    • Harry’s Holsters

      SIRT training pistol. It’s a 3rd party product.

      I do multiple trigger presses when dry firing to avoid it. The benefits of dry far far out way the downsides.

      • Slim934

        I’m familiar with the SIRT, but that does not really answer my question. Did Glock not at some time produce something like I was describing or am I just mistaken?

        I don’t dispute the benefits of dry-fire but only point to obvious limitations you have to contend with depending on the platform in question. The only platform I can think of where there are absolutely 0 mechanical operation downsides with dry-fire is the DAO designs. On the glock platform, those problems would also be non-existent if they did sell a slide like I was describing above.

        • Harry’s Holsters

          I’m not aware of a slide. I know guys were modifying internal pre sirt and dedicating a glock just for dry fire. The modifications gave them a reseting trigger. I’m pretty sure the modifications were made to the frame. A Glock Armor might be able to answer the question.

          • retfed

            It’s the Glock 17R (R for Reset). It’s an inert, red gun with a trigger that resets after every trigger pull. I always wanted one for dry-fire training, but I don’t know if they still make them. We had a bunch of them when I was an instructor.

  • RickH

    Walther P99 AS……

  • Big Daddy

    So am I, born here and I grew up in NYC. You have the New York state of mind so to speak, it’s different in other parts of the USA. The point is if you use the gun know the law and be prepared not only for the fight but for the legal issues. I will not run, I will not be a victim, NEVER AGAIN!!!!

  • Mrl

    This all is great information Nathaniel. Even about stock sights. So you are saying stock sights on all my pistols and revolvers are good enough against 2Cent, even though all videos show how much better laser sights are compared to stock sights in all situations ?

    • How much you want to invest in concealing a firearm is up to you. I don’t have infinite money, which means I must prioritize what I purchase. Just within the context of concealed carry, training, ammunition, holsters, belts, magazines, etc all are a higher priority for me personally than upgraded sights.

      If I were Alex C, on the other hand, you can bet my Glock would be rocking some great sights.

  • Anon

    That doesn’t justify your viewpoint, as I said earlier, and if you bothered to watch your language, you wouldn’t have gone to moderator limbo.

    And usually, the “armchair commando” is a contrarian that believes everyone else is wrong and they’re a genius, that is to say you.

  • retfed

    With most DA/SA autos, engaging the safety automatically drops the hammer. Not true with all, but with a lot, especially those sold in the U.S.

    • iksnilol

      Wuuut?

      That’s weird. I haven’t experienced that with CZs and Tokarevs.

      • retfed

        CZs and Tokarevs are not very common in the U.S. Probably the most common DA/SA pistols in the U.S. are Berettas, and they use the Walther-style hammer-drop safety, as do the old metal-framed Smiths, which are probably the second-most common DA/SAs in the U.S. (I’m not counting the Sigs, which have decockers, not conventional safeties). Hence my qualifier, “especially those sold in the U.S.”

        • iksnilol

          Y’all got weird guns.

          Shake my head.

    • Steve H

      I think you’re confusing “safety” guns with “decocker” guns. Neither of which is a rarity in the US.

  • retfed

    I think we’re on the same page.
    The “women with revolvers” problem has to do with hand strength, and would be there in a DAO auto, too, as you said. They would be better off with a striker-fired pistol, or an SAO. But the trouble with SAOs is that so many people don’t have the confidence to carry them in Condition One, and either carry them in Condition Three or with an empty chamber.
    Really, you can’t win with some people’s kids.

  • Joseph Murphy

    If you are old enough to remember when the DA/SA design was developed it was not to create a better trigger system but instead to hopefully stop liability and training issues with the single action autos. Jeff Cooper on the DA/SA design: “An unnecessary solution to a nonexistent problem.”

  • Jake Dorsey

    Great piece. Definitely explains (mostly) why I gave up my beloved CZ 75 for a G17.

  • Bill

    DAO. Done and done.

    • iksnilol

      DAO?

      Srsly?

      *smh

      • Bill

        It means double action only. Think Beretta 92D, most SIGs as an option, the LCR, the Centennial and the last iterations of the NYPD revolver among many, many others. Anyone can learn to love and master this trigger and if they don’t mind a lack of excess parts, a restrike capability and a point-and-shoot manual of arms they will likely never go back (I didn’t). I’m assuming you’re funning me by even asking…

        • iksnilol

          I was just questioning whether somebody really liked DAO triggers. I don’t really like them, is sorta crappy compared to a good SA pull. And on the pistols I use I still have second strike capability whilst having a good single action trigger literally all the other time.

  • OPIE

    While I find the Beretta and other Walther or hammer-drop style DA/SA’s more difficult, SA/DA’s designed like the CZ75B can be carried safely in half-cock for a lighter DA pull, or they can be carried cocked and locked. The CZ 82/83 series had a VERY easy DA trigger. Both have fairly light single action triggers as well. Does that mean I won’t use a striker fired? Nope. DOA too. Train with your pistol and you will increase proficiency with your pistol regardless of the platform.

  • Ben Pottinger

    So your suggestion to a new shooter looking to CCW a gun is a full sized steel gun with gunsmith work done? That’s pretty terrible advice honestly. The CZ is a great gun and I want one at some point but it’s also quite heavy for daily carry. The biggest problem with most new CCW holders isn’t lack of enough firepower, it’s lack of firepower altogether. I’d say a large majority of them only carry a small minority of the time. For the price of the one gun+mods your suggesting a new shooter could buy a G19, a G43 and an LCP/similar and have a gun for daily carry, a gun for pocket carry and a gun for any deep concealment needs or as a backup/ankle gun if they are so inclined.

    I can’t remember the number of times I’ve been told I’ll be killed for having a weakling gun and that I should carry a 357mag or full sized 45 like they do. Then when I ask where their gun is they tell me it’s in the car, or at home. I could be wrong but it seems like I’m better armed with my weakling gun in my pocket then their hand cannon at home..

    • HollowTs

      Actually changing the mainspring on a CZ75 varient can be done in 5 minutes with a punch and the springs can be had from CZs own pro shop for around $12. Just putting it out there.

  • sean

    His Tactical Beard tells me he knows what he’s talking about

  • Chris Miller

    While I understand the enhanced safety aspects of DA/ SA pistols, I think those were mostly to appease admin types in departments across the nation (especially for guns w/o a manual safety like Sig). In practicality, the DA/ SA auto was great for those transitioning off DA revolvers as they already had the skillset needed to run the trigger effectively. I grew up in the same era as Chris Baker, and had also had many of the same movie hero symptoms. But I also grew using DA/ SA autos and DA revolvers (1st handgun I shot was my dad’s P220 at 8 yrs old). Since then I have been a fan of the platform, and have been using one as my EDC and in competition. I still rotate my 1911’s into the rotation from time to time, but the DA/ SA Sig P220 is my go to gun. As both you and Chris pointed out, most shooters of the DA/ SA platform tend to be trigger snobs, I know I am, but that’s because I appreciate the tactile feedback such a trigger offers. Chris is also on point about the need to learn how to “ride the reset” for those new to the platform, as well as need to learn how to avoid getting into the habit of pinning the trigger. For myself, I have practiced to the point that the reset point in ingrained into my muscle memory. After the reset my finger takes up the slack until I feel the wall of the break, confirm sight picture, then break the shot. This if course happens in fractions of a second, but again I have practiced to the point where this is a muscle reflex. DA/ SA are not for everyone, but for diehard pistoleros the strengths really shine.

  • grifhunter

    Man, finally. As a long time 1911 competitor, I’ve always preferred DA/SA as first line home defense and carry weapons. I agree with every rationale depicted in the video, but every time I raise these points the Glock and 1911 fanboys go off like a rocket.

    At the risk of inviting more drama: If you want an additional practical layer of safety, your DA/SA civilian carry gun should have a MAGAZINE SAFETY. You’ll get hit by a meteorite, before getting killed by having a mag safety. Virtually nothing is ever reported on losing a gun fight because of a gun with a mag safety. What is reported are hundreds of accidental shootings annually with noobs and experienced handlers forgetting the round in the chamber. Smith and Wesson 39/59 series for the win.

  • Mrl

    Thanks for your reply Nathaniel.
    I too don’t have the funds for fancy sights and lasers after belts, holsters, ammo and trying to get to the range. I’ll stick with stock sights on my firearms. After all I am still armed and isn’t that the first defense in defending your life?

  • cisco kid

    One thing that was not mentioned is the unreliability of many striker fired pistol under extreme conditions i.e. cold and contamination. I have tested the Glock and Wather P99 and had them fail when attempting to set off a live high primer (in an empty case for safety, no bullet, no powder). The Glock and Walther failed even when repeatedly striking the same primer over and over. In contrast I tested over 15 hammer fired guns that had so much hammer power that it drove the high primer down into its pocket and still had enough energy to crush the primer and set it off each and every time without fail.
    Now lets look at the bottom side of the Glock and the Walther P99 slide. You will notice they have open firing pin channels rather than the traditional closed slide of the hammer fired guns. This lets burnt powder, lint, dirt etc to get into the firing pin channel which can slow down the striking energy even more coupled with their already weak firing pin striking energy, a prescription for a misfire.
    When you factor in too much lube in striker fired pistols you know have another factor that can and will cause a misfire especially in extremely cold weather because the striker fired gun is already operating on the margin of reliability and slowing down the striker even further with cold, dirt and too much lube is a guarantee of a misfire.

  • HollowTs

    My wife prefers my CZ75b to her XDs… Just saying….

    • JLR84

      Isn’t that one of the rare DA/SA pistols that have the ability to be “cocked and locked” like a 1911?