Rikers Island Guards Issued Kel-Tec Shotguns

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According to the New York Post, Rikers Island Guards are getting Kel-Tec Shotguns and receiving training from US Corrections Special Operations Group.  The USCSOG have been using Kel-Tec weapons for quite some time. NYC’s Department of Corrections plan to spend $1.2 million dollars in the next three years on training the Rikers Island guards.

 



Nicholas C

Co-Founder of KRISSTALK forums, an owner’s support group and all things KRISS Vector related. Nick found his passion through competitive shooting while living in NY. He participates in USPSA and 3Gun. He loves all things that shoots and flashlights. Really really bright flashlights.

Any questions please email him at nicholas.c@staff.thefirearmblog.com


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  • Major Tom

    Put a big scope on a shotgun…a scope on a shotgun…

    Do you really need fancy magnifying optics like that for 30 meter shooting?

    • iksnilol

      Doesn’t look like a scope to me. Looks more like a red dot or something.

      • Major Tom

        That’d be the biggest red dot sight I’ve ever heard of when it’s bigger than the shooter’s hand by that substantial of a margin. (By the way the scope I’m referring to is in the first video.)

        • iksnilol

          Literally no shotguns with scopes in that video. Though there’s a bullpup rifle with a scope (and no mag inserted).

          • DIR911911 .

            how about the top picture then? that sure looks like a double feed shotgun with a HUGE optic of some sort

          • iksnilol

            Yeah, biga$$ holographic or colliminator sight. If you find that strange you probably find things such as optics in general strange.

          • Gary Kirk

            My only issue is trijicon… On a kel-tec….

          • iksnilol

            What’s the problem there?

            In Norway the cardinal rule is: Cheap weapon, expensive optic.

          • Gary Kirk

            Never said it was a problem, just an issue.. And spending more on an optic than the firearm it’s going on is actually normal for G.A.’s.. Look at the US military and their contracts with Trijicon.. Just the inherent difference in brands, not saying anything against the KT shotty, haven’t used them to any extent. But most of the KT stuff I’ve experienced, hasn’t been worth the time or ammo.. Whereas, Trijicon, most that bad mouth them.. Just can’t afford one..

          • MNOR

            HK’s are cheap now?

            you realize that The Norwegian Armed forces literally went with the highest bidder?

            Our newest toy, the Barrett MRAD isn’t exactly the “budget option” either.

          • iksnilol

            I was thinking for us civvies. I mean, how many Hjemmevern Mausers have you seen with a Zeiss or something on it? Cause I’ve seen plenty.

          • Chrome Dragon

            That appears to be a Trijicon 800036, a 1x42mm fiber-optic and tritium-illuminated reflex sight. No magnification, just an enormous aperture for eyes-open shooting.

          • GearHeadTony

            Trijicon reflex

    • That’s not a shotgun. It’s an RDB, which is a rifle.

      • Major Tom

        Having watched that again, I think you might be right. I think I might’ve conflated the two.

  • Joseph Goins

    I hope they get the Kel-Tecs that work.

    • Nicholas C

      Considering how many US-CSOG go thru I think it is safe to say they work.

    • Quasimofo

      They’ve probably been “fluffed & buffed” at the factory. Can’t let these guys beta test production runs, which is KT’s usual process…

      • Ballan

        That’s how it used to be though before Glock came along and everyone expected it to run flawlessy out of the box.

  • sk

    on a different note…anyone know the maker, platform, type of destructive device used by Dallas police to kill the shooting suspect?

    • The bomb squad robot detonated the bomb after negotiations broke down.

      • sb

        my understanding was a robot was used to deliver an explosive device belonging to the authorities to the suspect and then detonated. Any info on the type of “bomb” used (i.e. grenade, claymore, etc) or the delivery robot?

        Or are you saying the suspect brought the bomb and the bomb squad just detonated it (as they usually do)….see the difference? I want to know if your readers have any experience with this type of ordinance being used by police?

        • 2wheels

          The official statement was that they placed a device in the robots “extension” (the gripper arm). No official word on what specific model robot was used, but since they call it a “bomb robot” that means there’s a good chance it was something like a Packbot, MarcBot, Andros, Talon, etc.

          I’ve never heard of cops doing anything like this, and I haven’t read anything so far on what type of explosive they used. My gut feeling is that it was not military ordnance such as a grenade or claymore, I doubt a PD would have a need to keep that kind of hardware around.

          But their bomb squad is almost sure to have demolition materials (C-4, etc.) that they could use to put together an explosive charge, hand it to their robot, and send it wandering on off towards the bad guy.

          All in all… Shows how desperate they were…

          • Anonymous

            I don’t want to start rumors or speculation, but I kind thought this is the kinda situation that calls for tear gas. I imagine they would have been desperate but also not overly concerned about his survival.

          • hikerguy

            After having put eleven officers down I would imagine you are right. Don’t blame them. I am surprised some wuss group hasn’t complained about excessive use of force.

          • Aaron E

            With the killer threatening to kill more cops, and that IED’s were present (possibly on his person), using gas to force him out of his barricaded location would have caused more danger than necessary.

            They gave him 3 hours of negotiation to surrender. The Supreme Court says the Constitution demands the use of force be reasonable, but also says police can take a suspect’s words as a matter of fact if he has the means and ability to carry them out. In this situation, his refusal to surrender after killing, engaging police in another shoot-out at his barricade location, and his refusal to surrender, were all indications of intent to continue killing. That meets the deadly force requirement of the 4th Amendment.

          • Phil Hsueh

            I have to agree, tear gas is not the same as some sort of knock out gas, it does not incapacitate people, it’s just noxious and causes a burning sensation on exposed skin, causes the eyes to tear up, and makes your nose runny. It would have made the shooter very uncomfortable and seriously annoyed, annoyed and pissed off enough for him to come out shooting or just simply start shooting out of wherever he was holed up at. The other thing is, tear gas is a fairly opaque gas and you use enough of it to try to where a suspect might be slowed by the effects of the gas you’re going to lose a lot of visibility which means you would no longer be able to see what he’s doing and that could be bad.

          • Zachary marrs

            Desperate?

            Not wanting to get blown up by explosives is hardly “desperate”

            When dealing with a person who has shot 11 cops, better safe than sorry

          • 2wheels

            Deciding to use your bomb robot essentially as an improvised suicide drone, that’s a desperate move by the police. Showed how badly they wanted him dead, and I can’t blame them.

          • Zachary marrs

            Thats not desperate.

            The guy had already killed 5 cops, wounded 11, and made claims of explosives in the area.

            They sent in the bomb bot to do wat bomb bots do.

            Detonate bombs.

            Oh, and bomb bots are expendable. A bunch of SWAT officers are not

          • 2wheels

            They didn’t send it in there to “do wat bomb bots do”.

            They sent it in there specifically to kill a man.

            That’s never been done before by a US police department. And the news is certainly making a lot of noise about it.

            So that shows that they felt that they had no other options, in other words… They were desperate. They wanted the situation resolved ASAP without risking even more officers lives.

          • I think the arguments stem from your use of “desperate”. Desperate indicates panic, which indicates reflexive responses instead of thought-out actions. There is no indication the use of the bomb robot was desperate or reflexive.

            Once cornered the police spent 3 hours trying to negotiate with this killer to surrender, showing amazing restraint in doing so. His refusal to surrender, his threat that more cops were going to be killed/injured, that “IED’s” were involved, and his armed status, led the special operations command to develop a unique solution to a very unique problem. With those circumstances, yes – they made a conscious decision to kill or seriously injure the killer. No different if negotiations had failed and a sniper could take a shot, and well within the “reasonable” requirement of the 4th Amendment (Graham v. Connor).

            There is no sign of desperation in that at all. The killer was contained, though the possibility of others at that time was real. In fact, I would counter they used an incredible amount of ingenuity and planning to eliminate a deadly threat, with potential explosive devices on him or nearby, while keeping officers and the public safe. I’m sure a sniper option was sought, but the killer’s position must have] removed that option. Ending the threat became a priority, but I would not call that desperate by any means.

            As for the explosives, enough Det Cord with a solid backing would do it. Fairly small amounts will blow doors off hinges.

          • Zachary marrs

            A man who was making claims that he had explosives.

            Send a bomb robot or some SWAT officers to confront an armed suspect who may have explosives…

            A hard choice.

        • Bill

          Just a guess from an IED perspective, even a sufficient booster charge in a confined space could create enough overpressure to deanimate somebody. Plus bomb squad guys have seen enough that they could easily whip up something dynamic.

          I was surprised to hear that they did it, but there have been a couple instances of using pyrotechnics to drive people out that resulted in fires that kind of finished the job. Given that this was a largely nonflammable structure, a blast device would be the logical next step.

          Mu understanding from open-source info is that the bad guy claimed to have explosives, so disrupting them would be a priority. Unfortunately, that may include disrupting him into pink mist.

    • AKSU

      C4 was used to terminate the threat.

  • gunsandrockets

    I’m just surprised to hear that Corrections has a special operations group!

    • Nicholas C

      They have been around for a while.

    • 2wheels

      They’re a private company that trains prison guards apparently.

    • john huscio

      They exist for special insertions when someone drops the soap.

      • Gary Kirk

        Secondary “insertion” squad…

    • Bill

      Most correctional agencies have some form of special team: from high-risk cell extractions, transporting high-threat prisoners, riot/disturbance suppression, and the tracking down/ taking down of high-threat parolees & probationers, but definition, the people they deal with are proven bad dudes and dudettes.

      • Gary Kirk

        AKA The goon squad

        • Bill

          Usually the last guy in the stack has a video camera recording everything they do.

          • Jonathen Newcomb

            Actually on our team we all have personal cameras to track what we do. It’s keeps the team accountable.

          • Leigh Rich

            And this was 20 years ago. Right Newcomb.

          • Jonathen Newcomb

            No

        • HollowTs

          Yes exactly. I used to work in corrections. That’s exactly what the inmates called them! Lol

    • Bill

      Every year there is a national competition between correctional teams at an old federal prison to train and test corrections special teams and share lessons learned and new techniques and training.

  • Jeffrey Smith

    The Kel-Tec KSG I owned was the single worst firearm I have ever touched. I would rather have a knife than that thing in a situation where my life depended on it. I have a feeling the prisoners will have an advantage here if they are using kel tec products.

    • Nicholas C

      You are an exception of probably hundred of thousands of KSGs. Sure there have been some others that have had issues as well. But it isnt an epidemic nor an inherent design flaw

      • Jeffrey Smith

        Maybe they have gotten better, but I had one in 2012 that was an absolute POS, and it seemed fairly common that people were having issues with the KSG’s from what I remember. I even sent it in to have them try to fix the gun to no avail and others had the same issues. It left a bad enough taste in my mouth that I avoid Kel-Tec products.

        • Nicholas C

          Mine is also from 2012. It did have some minor issues but nothing that was a deal breaker. I did have a fail to extract once during a competition. I sent it back and now no problems. But I will admit I do not use my KSG for much more than range fun. I have other shotguns in my collection.

          What was wrong with yours?

      • Bill

        Seriously, there are hundreds of thousands of KSGs in the field? I can barely find one to fondle.

        • Dan

          While out of town for the weekend I stopped into their local gun store. (Never seen a KSG in person) they had 6 or 7 in their “cool” gun section.

    • hkguns

      Your sample of one is meaningless. My sample of one, also meaningless has functioned flawlessly since the day it was purchased.

  • Dracon1201

    My KSG was great, 100% reliable. A very good choice. I had preference issues with it, but that was all. A really great design.

    • Nicholas C

      I like loading mine up with aguila mini shells. 22+1!

  • The Forty ‘Twa

    Is it a private company in the video? Looks like their media budget is pretty high in any case!

    • 2wheels

      US C-SOG seems to be a private company specializing in corrections related training.
      Fancy name they have for themselves…

  • d_grey

    What is a corrections special operations group?

    • 2wheels

      Corrections officers with delusions of grandeur.

      • d_grey

        No really, what’s their purpose? Like what is “corrections” supposed to do? (Not a US citizen, hence asking) 😀

        • Porty1119

          Prison guards.

        • 2wheels

          Not sure if my original post is gonna get approved or it disappeared… So I’ll repost just to make sure.

          “Corrections” refers to prisons. “Corrections officers” are prison guards. There is no such thing as “Corrections Special Operations”, that’s just a name that they came up with to call themselves because they want to seem “operator”.

          And “they” (US-CSOG) are a private company specializing in training prison guards.

          • d_grey

            Hence delusions of grandeur, got it and thank you! 😀

          • Aaron E

            This company … I don’t know. However, to say there is no such thing as Corrections Special Operations is not true.

            U.S. Bureau of Prisons has at least (3) Special Operations Response Teams around the country to respond to major prison riots, hostage taking situations, escaped prisoners, etc. Each prison also has specially trained corrections officers for cell extractions and prisoner movement when an inmate becomes violent, or smaller fight/riot situations. During a less lethal instructor course I toured a Federal prison – they don’t play around at all in there!

            State prisons also have teams for these “specialized” duties. If you think it doesn’t take specialized teams and training for those actions you’re wrong. Prisons and prisoners are still very dangerous places.

  • TDog

    I would not trust a KSG with my safety or life. Reliability on those things in my experience is less than stellar.

    • Nicholas C

      And you are one of few. Where as there are thousands upon thousands that do not have issues.

      • Gamle Aker

        Reloading a KSG is bad. You can`t load 8 Shell in 5 Seconds With a KSG

        • Nicholas C

          Very true. Which is why I don’t use the KSG for 3Gun. I prefer my JMPro 930 or my Vang Comp 870

        • Jonathen Newcomb

          When you have 15 to start it makes up for that a bit. You can get good it takes practice though.

      • CommonSense23

        And the vast majority people don’t rely on a gun for work and have no clue what they are talking about.

      • TDog

        Unfortunately, those thousands are not me. Personal protection is not a democracy – what works for the majority but fails for me is a failure no ands, ifs, or buts.

    • IndyToddrick

      Agreed. I only shot one at the range once, but it took about five minutes to get the first shot out. If you don’t have both tubes loaded then you have to select the tube with ammo in it, plus Inhad some other problem. Long story short, about three “clicks” without booms. Not a single FTF is acceptable for a defensive weapon IMO.

      • TDog

        My experience was getting rounds chambered took an act of Congress, switching tubes would result in failures to feed, and loading the gun to full capacity would lead to failures to feed.

  • DIR911911 .

    ” from US Corrections Special Operations Group. The USCOG” . . . shouldn’t that be USCSOG?

  • Fruitbat44

    Interesting. I’m still, as an armchair gunslinger, a little concerned about how close to the muzzle the pumping hand is. Still being adopted by an agency (and is this the first for the KSG?) could be considered quite a recommendation.

    • L. Roger Rich

      ever shoot a snum noe pistol?

      • Fruitbat44

        Nope.

  • Vhyrus

    Dear god I have never seen a shotgun pumped so quickly in my life. I had to go back and make sure they weren’t running dp-12s.

    • L. Roger Rich

      I have a KSG and a DP 12 but it is a secret,

  • I would like to see a pump shotgun with a spring tension either to return the pump handle and rods back to loaded position, or down to loading position!

    • L. Roger Rich

      European made Gen 4 UTAS shot guns do…

  • Bill

    Just because for as long as they’ve been released I’ve never had the opportunity to wring one out, couldn’t you theoretically load one tube with less-lethal or specialty rounds, and one tube with buck or slugs, so you could choose whichever was appropriate near instantly?

    • Nicholas C

      Yes

    • Cymond

      You could load it that way, but switching takes a few seconds, plus remembering to wrack it into the chamber (assuming you keep a round in the chamber).

      And of course, there is significant risk that someone accidentally fires the wrong round. There is already risk of an officer drawing a lethal weapon accidentally instead of a less lethal; combining the two into one weapon just increased the chances of a mix up.

      • Bill

        All your points are well founded. In addition, at the ranges often encountered in jails and prisons, less-lethal rounds can easily become lethal.

        OTOH, IIRC Remington used to market a 870 with a 30 inch barrel as a “tower gun,” so the COs shooting at longer ranges could lead their targets more easily.

        • Aaron E

          Mixing lethal and less-lethal is not recommended for the reasons Cymond stated. Most Less lethal instruction dedicates a less lethal officer, and then a lethal cover officer. Roles remain intact.

          Also, ALS (AMTEC) and Defense Technologies (DEF-TEC) have low velocity rounds with minimum safe distances of 5-feet, and 15-feet respectively. Those selections will pretty much cover cell extractions (considering an 8′ x 12′ cell).

          • Bill

            Splitting roles on the street is the way we’ve always done it; I’m thinking in the correctional setting, in the hands of specialists, the rules may be a little different.

          • Perhaps, but killing an inmate by accident, when less lethal was appropriate, still gets a prison guard prosecuted.

  • Machinegunnertim

    After watching the video I’m wondering where all the whiners are that said you can’t shoot or reload bullpups in the urban prone or certain unusual shooting positions. The dudes in the first video seem to have no problem.

  • Dildo-1

    Program is a joke !

  • Andrew Moon

    1:14 nothing says I’m moving around like leaving your WML on during bounding.

  • Jonathen Newcomb

    People here that are speaking about the KSG shotguns have all reasons to believe that they are horrible. They had a real bad start. The newer generation of the gun is really made well though. I use one in the field as a SOG operator and I have had no issues with my shotgun. The only time I had issues it was operator error. Once you train to reload and use the selection of tubes well you have 15 shells at your disposal. An 18.5 inch barrel. A total of 26 inches makes it very maneuverable in tight prison environments.

    • iHAL

      HAHAHAHAHA.

      Oh man, could you type that without cracking up or feeling bad?

    • L. Roger Rich

      WTF you a SOG operator? Tool.

      • Jonathen Newcomb

        Uh huh

  • disqus_xRDifJ7vnp

    I’d much rather have my Mossberg 500, Remington 870 or Ithaca M37

  • Friend of Tibet

    My Ksg……OH BOY….even the RMA can not fix its reliability……I mean I used to be that “your KSG don’t feed well does not represent all” guy until I got mine…..500 rounds later…..well……now I will take a Brazilian rusty home made shotgun anyday over KSG……

  • John Swinkels

    Great shotgun just cant get my head around making it pump action very movie orientated.Consider this if the pump was so great why arn’t m16 pump also.I have had extensive practice shooting fruit bats and rabbits with a franchi spas 12 and perfected my shot placement even took it to a trap shoot and scored a 20/20.a semi auto allows for a better follow up shot.Mind you the guy in the video does a nice job of cycling his weapon but i would still question his hit ratio.just my 2x bobs worth from an old bloke.

  • John Swinkels

    Anyone here old enough to remember a HK12 i had one and i made the bigest mistake of my life and sold it for 2 grand.It had a fig 8 compensator.

  • L. Roger Rich

    Hope Kel Tec increases their Quality control. They are still hit and miss even with new Gen 2.5 KSG’s

  • Jesse

    If your goal is to have a gun that will get you killed, great plan.

  • HollowTs

    I love my AUG as I have posted on other topics. However the ejection is a problem for lefties andweak arm transitioning.

  • TDog

    I’ve fired the DP-12 on numerous occasions – rock solid, 100% reliable. It’s a tad heavy, but that’s not a bad trade off for the benefits you get.

    I would trust the DP-12 with my life and the lives of my family members.

  • Andrew

    US Corrections Special Operations Group is not a government agency. They are a private training company that appears to have duped the City of New York Department of Corrections into buying these goofy Kel-Tec shotguns.