How NOT To Test Your Pistol LASER

laser hand

So this guy is testing what looks to be a 1911 with laser. I am assuming possibly a Kimber with factory Crimson Trace? Well regardless of the make and model, the shooter clearly does not have a grasp of the Firearm Rules of Safety.

  • ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction. This is the primary rule of gun safety. … (your hand is not a safe direction)
  • ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot. … (if it wasnt there it can’t go off)
  • ALWAYS keep the gun unloaded until ready to use. (cant shoot bullets if it isn’t in there)

Pretty simple right? But complacency creeps up and people do stupid things. I cringe every time I see someone in a gun shop hold a pistol in their hands and cradle the muzzle with their other hand. I say something and I always get the moronic response “It’s ok, it isn’t loaded”. No excuses. This is how you build bad habits. By assuming things and repeating poor firearm handling it is easier to have an accident.

Ok, so I got the safety lecture out of the way. Watch the video. The shooter is trying to get his laser to show up. It doesn’t work. So he puts his left hand over the laser which just so happens to also cover up the muzzle. Meanwhile the gun is loaded and chambered. To make matters worse he keeps his finger on the trigger If the gun in the video is using a Crimson Trace laser, then it probably has a pressure switch under the trigger guard and is activated by squeezing your middle finger as you grip the gun. This works great for shooting since it is natural to squeeze the grip anyway. However people like this get confused and start squeezing things without paying attention. I am not sure who the other guy in the video is. But he is clearly watching this happen and doesn’t say anything or do anything to correct the shooter. If he is a range officer, he is clearly failing to do his job.



Nicholas C

Co-Founder of KRISSTALK forums, an owner’s support group and all things KRISS Vector related. Nick found his passion through competitive shooting while living in NY. He participates in USPSA and 3Gun. He loves all things that shoots and flashlights. Really really bright flashlights.

Any questions please email him at nicholas.c@staff.thefirearmblog.com


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  • Rick O’Shay

    “he’s gonna shoot his hand…”

    “…yep, dumbass just shot his hand.”

    • Budogunner

      Everyone is an RSO. If you see something dangerous and stupid, call “cease fire, cease fire” and shut the line down. The RSO should thank you even in a false positive.

      –NRA Certified RSO, here.

      • Kivaari

        The NRA needs to get away from using “RSO” – Registered Sex Offender. Like a problem with School Resource Officers that all too often become RSOs.

    • Rooftop Voter

      “You’ll shoot yer eye out, kid”

  • Orion Quach

    Crimson Trace like “our stuff works!”

  • iowaclass

    Don’t be arrogant. Watch with empathy. Anyone can have a careless moment. Acknowledge your own human frailty and you are more likely to retain the lesson that this video teaches.

    • Anon

      If your first instinct was to aim at your HAND to test a laser, then I don’t know what to tell you because this is the kind of crap that goes beyond momentary carelessness.

      • iowaclass

        It is not the first time that a person has injured a hand trying to fix a malfunctioning handgun. It’s not even the first time it was caught on camera. Watching a mental lapse take place can beggar belief.

        • Anon

          …Nope, nothing to see here because from what I saw, the pistol didn’t malfunction. If I wanted to check the laser, I would aim at the table instead

          • Kivaari

            Yep, it worked as designed.

        • Devil_Doc

          Looks to me like that pistol functioned exactly like it was supposed to.

          • iowaclass

            That’s cold, bro.
            Guess a laser counts as an accessory.

        • Evan

          It wasn’t as if he accidentally flagged himself either. He deliberately placed his hand in front of the muzzle of a firearm which he knew to be loaded. This is more than just a lapse.

          • iowaclass

            Yes, but the point stands. There were two people present, neither one registering the obvious danger. This doesn’t happen because your a stupid human. It happens because you are a human human.

          • Evan

            No. This is extreme and reckless stupidity, not minor human error. There’s a difference between stubbing your toe and pointing a loaded gun at yourself with your finger on the trigger.

          • iowaclass

            As they say, “all guns are loaded until proven otherwise.” I strongly suspect that they thought he had shot the gun dry, but there one still one in the chamber.

          • Evan

            It’s a 1911. It has a last round hold open. It’s impossible to do this to yourself without gross and reckless disregard for safety rules and common sense.

          • iowaclass

            Are you sure it’s a 1911? Post says it “looks like…”

            Anyway, you’re right, and clearly I do not have a point. So just move along and remember nothing of that sort could ever happen to you.

          • Evan

            It couldn’t, since I follow the safety rules. If this guy was not breaking ALL of the safety rules at once, he would not have shot himself. If you’re dumb enough to do what he did, you basically deserve it when you accidentally shoot yourself. This isn’t the kind of accident that “just happens”. This is an accident caused by gross negligence.

          • iowaclass

            Who “deserves it” when it’s somebody else who gets accidentally shot?

            You are making the case against a presumptive right to gun ownership, and you don’t even know it.

          • Evan

            No, I’m not. This is odd coming from someone who repeatedly has called for all manner of gun bans/registration before. I’m saying that you reap what you sow. If you act the fool with guns and accidentally shoot yourself, it’s your own fault and you deserve it for acting the fool with guns. If he was following any of the four basic rules of gun safety, he wouldn’t have shot himself. The four rules of gun safety are really very basic, very easy to understand, and very easy to follow. It’s not exactly brain surgery. This is why out of the tens of millions of gun owners in this country, virtually none of them shoot themselves. I have no sympathy for this dope.

          • iowaclass

            Gun owners shoot themselves by accident literally every day.

          • Evan

            IF that’s true, we’re still talking literally hundreds out of tens of millions. A negligible percentage. Virtually everyone who owns a gun will go through life without ever accidentally shooting himself.

            In 2011 (the latest year I could find in a five minute Google search), there were 14,675 accidental firearms injuries nationwide. That’s total, not just people who shot themselves. About half of those seem to have been hunting accidents. So yeah, out of a low ball estimate of 80 million Americans owning guns, it is a negligible number of fools who accidentally shoot themselves. I can’t believe you’re defending this idiot who is very clearly violating every safety rule in the book and gets his comeuppance for it.

          • iowaclass

            In what sense am I “defending” this egregious error?
            And in what possible sense is an unintentional self-injury “comeuppance”?
            Let me explain how normal people’s emotions work, Dexter. Our sentiments extend even to those who suffer because of foolish mistakes, and we recognize our own fallibility even as we critique the failings of others.
            I think it’s time for you to move on and take your emotional sh–storm somewhere else.

          • Evan

            You’re defending his heinous stupidity by saying that this is just a small mistake that anyone could make, and that we shouldn’t condemn him for it. Maybe this is what passes for gun safety with you, but I find it unacceptable. As I’ve said before, when he shoots himself in the hand, he is reaping what he has sown. Act the fool with guns, get hurt. It’s quite simple really. I’m not sure what you aren’t getting about it. He’s not the first person to have a problem at the range. I had a primer pop out of a round and wedge the bolt of my AR in some bizarre half locked position before. But you know what I did? I kept the muzzle pointed safely downrange until I fixed the problem. Because that’s the smart and safe way to do things. You’re talking about this clown as if he just made a small goof, like forgetting to switch the safety off before taking a shot. You have shown a very cavalier attitude towards gun safety, and I suspect that this attitude probably influences your proclivity for gun control. After all, if guns can’t be used safely, as your comments imply that you believe, then placing restrictions on their ownership makes more sense.

          • iowaclass

            “Small mistake”? Oh, I see, we’re in Evanland, where we make sh– up about what people say. Fun game.

            So, when was the first time you made love to a goat, again?

          • Dave Parks

            Aww, come on guys, hug it out.

            I feel pretty bad for the guy who shot his hand, and yeah, Evan is right that very few of us will ever do anything that stupid with a firearm, but iowaclass has a point, too.

            Presumably this guy is an otherwise intelligent human being who either never bothered to learn the safety rules or has been around firearms for so long he’s got the attitude that the rules don’t apply to him any more.

            If you watch the video and ignore the parts where he points the gun at his hand, he’s clearly in the latter category. He’s got impeccable muzzle discipline, despite rotating the gun several times. He quickly transitions to a decent shooting stance, and even after he shoots his hand, he keeps the gun pointed (mostly) down range and (almost) safely ditches it back to the table.

            Which speaks to iowaclass’s point that we need to keep the attitude that this could happen to us if we take the attitude that it could never happen to us, because, as Evan points out, people do incredibly stupid things.

          • iowaclass

            you articulated it better than I did

          • Bill

            “Fortunately,” in this case HE’S the one reaping what he has sown, and it isn’t some other poor slob who got in the way of his bullet, who’d end up suffering, or worse, because of this guy’s negligence or recklessness.

          • Kivaari

            Out of those 14K+ shootings were done when a person deliberately fired a round(s)? I’d bet nearly every one of them. Criminal negligence or simple minded negligence. Mishandling the gun is negligence. How many of those “accidents” could have been avoided, had the shooter not pulled the trigger while the gun was pointed at a person? Unintentional result, from intentionally shooting the gun.

          • iowaclass

            Sometimes you reap what somebody else sows.

          • iowaclass

            I defy you to identify a single “gun ban” I have advocated. You filthy hateful liar.

          • Evan

            I’ve argued with you on this before. You’re always arguing for various gun control based on fallacy and misunderstanding. I know you said something about how since full auto machine guns are essentially banned, semiauto weapons should be as well, or some banality to that effect.

          • iowaclass

            Oh, you mean where I said we should repeal the Hughes amendment and make machine guns legal for civilians ownership again?

            So now it’s the “opposite of what you said” game. Another fun one.

            Do explain: why are you voting for Bernie?

          • Ease it down a few notches guys—–

          • iowaclass

            ok

          • It’s a 1911——

          • Kivaari

            So you never seen a slide lock fail?

          • Budogunner

            It’s not hard to seeing the cylinder open. Also, your finger should never be on the trigger unless you have sights on target and are ready to shoot. Muscle movement required to correct that is trivial.

            It is also generally bad practice to assume with something that goes boom.

          • Kivaari

            That’s why you should check to make sure the firearm is unloaded and in a safe condition. Simple negligence led to a bullet hole in his hand. The gun worked as designed.

          • Kivaari

            Especially dumb to push the trigger back while watching the little dot.

          • Joe

            Firearm accidents occur because;
            1. Ignorance
            2. Negligence.

            Alright let’s say he’s being ignorant.
            He’s at a Shooting Range. Supposedly he would be aware that firearms do indeed launch projectiles at a somewhat high rate of speed. And that the bullets exit the from the muzzle.
            He should be aware that his body is NOT bulletproof.
            = The most uneducated person that ever lived. Does not equate to giving him a pass just this once.

            Second option;
            Carelessness. He understands that firearm accidents occur, he is aware that human beings are fallible, sharp things cut, gravity is a law, physics exsist, and that bullets hurt when they hit you…..And he Doesn’t G.A.F.
            = Stupid Human does not = All Humans are Stupid.

            Conclusion show this to novices, and then point and repeatedly laugh. Heartily. Here’s your sign!

          • iowaclass

            If there is a “stupid human” category that cannot be trained to use a gun without this kind of accident taking place, then there has to be pretty serious official vetting of who is allowed to own a gun based on intelligence. No way are you going to sell the American public on the idea that “stupid people will be firing off guns accidentally and maybe hit you or your family by mistake, but 2nd Amendment, bro, so deal with it.”

          • Joe

            False. Nowhere did I encourage a minimum intelligence level before purchasing or owning a firearm. There are stupid people among us, they vote, reproduce, write books, run websites, own and shoot guns. Accept this fact and then laugh when they prove the rest of us right.

          • iowaclass

            Won’t be laughing if your the one who catches the stray bullet.

          • Wyatt Earp

            The range is a viable defendant to a lawsuit for (a) having no range officers and/or (b) an incompetent RSA.

          • Kivaari

            I’d bet the paperwork filled out by the customer has a great deal to limit the range from liability for a shooters mistakes.

          • Wyatt Earp

            You can’t waive someone else’s negligence. You can’t waive your own negligence. You can’t waive negligence on the part of the another if what was done was beyond the scope of practice of the person committing the tort.

            In my experience in P.I.cases, waivers of liability are useless. If you have deep pockets, I am going to get to you somehow.

            Unless the guys that made sight proactively warned against this, there is potential negligence on their part, too.

          • Kivaari

            Common sense suggests this guy is really stupid. I am quite sure both the gun and LASER rnakers warn against aiming where it should not be aimed. Common sense dictates one doesn’t shoot a hole in their hand.

          • Kivaari

            Like indicting a ham sandwich?

          • Kivaari

            Ignorance is self imposed and therefor negligence on his part.

          • Joe

            My point exactly. If you look at what I was implying in my comment, I’m alluding to the fact that he is responsible for his errors in
            safety, and judgement.

          • Kivaari

            Remember there are no accidents. One more negligent act by another rookie gun user.

          • Wyatt Earp

            BS:

            There are accidents that involve no negligence. Stupidity ≠ negligence.

            Unfortunately, the stupidity involved here is a matter of fact, not of law. So, the judge couldn’t just throw it out at the level of a motion for summary Judgment.

            Although, as a defense lawyer I would fine multiple demurrers. (When the plaintiff fails to state a cause of action in the complaint.) If this went to court in Federal Court, the options shrink, since federal courts only require notice pleadings.

          • Kivaari

            Wrong. Unless you are harmed by a natural disaster, there simply are NO accidents with cars or guns. No one that fires a gun that causes injury to persons or property has a human cause is negligent. Point a loaded gun in an unsafe direction, pull the trigger and cause a bullet to fly, and an intentional act took place. Oops, “It was an accident” – well no it wasn’t. The gun worked. The operator failed. So, a gun goes off, when the slide is dropped, but it was aimed in an unsafe direction but the internal parts failed so a round goes off – that is a couple of things, neither of which were accidents. Once more the gun was not aimed in a safe direction. Then a human error happened, where defective or improper adjustments or alterations were present. Poorly made parts or poor engineering resulted in a failure to properly function happened. Not an accident, failed people created the condition. A human failed somewhere along the line. Same with vehicle crashes, none of which are accidents. Drive drunk and it was an intentional act. Fail to yield right of way and crash, it was a human error. Have a part fail resulting in a crash, was either an engineering failure, maintenance failure or materials failure, none of which are accidents. Have a hillside fail and it crushes a car and its passengers is bad luck, but a highway engineers big oops.
            Having worked in traffic safety, we were not allowed to use the word “accident” since no crash simply happens. A crash or gun mishap happens when someone fails to do what it takes to do it right by someone.
            Was this an “accident”? Well, not even close. Pure negligence by the shooter. The bystander could have said something, but it was not his responsibility, even if he did say something, the end result was a negligent discharge that cased injury to the guilty party himself. The gun, laser, ammunition and range were there and performed. Don’t pint a gun or car in a direction that will result in injury or death. A single victim fatal crash wont result in criminal charges against the dead guy. It may lead to a civil suit if the car was shown to be defective through design, manufacture, maintenance or the roadway could have design defects, poor construction, poor inspection, wear and tear that was the responsibility of the city, county or state that contributed to the crash. It is why most places send a risk management team to investigate if it was a governmental failure that leads to a suit.

          • Hyok Kim
          • Hyok Kim
          • Kivaari

            What is your point? The shooting was intentional. A non-criminal homicide. Who was responsible for the death? Not the constable. He fired his gun in self defense, that was needed because another human acted in a negligent manner. Pointing a rifle at the law officer was unsafe, unlawful and it resulted in the death of the child.
            I am still waiting for someone to show me where such things are “accidents”. Unintended, yes. Unfortunate, yes. Avoidable, yes. When the officer fired his bullet was sent flying and caused damage he did not want nor desire. It was all preventable, had the bad guy not acted negligently. Do you get it?

          • Hyok Kim

            “What is your point? The shooting was intentional.”

            The girl being killed as a result of the constable shooting was neither intentional nor negligent on the part of the constable. It was an accident.

            A non-criminal homicide. Who was responsible for the death? Not the constable. He fired his gun in self defense,

            “…..that was needed because another human acted in a negligent manner. Pointing a rifle at the law officer was unsafe, unlawful and it resulted in the death of the child.”

            “Susan Evans, of the Office of Consumer Protection in the state Attorney General’s Office, said Meyer had called five days earlier, complaining that people weren’t listening to the issues he was raising.

            Sherry Meyer, the defendant’s wife, testified that Meyer had told her he was “not going out as a man, but as a warrior.””He said he had been to the news and he would go down in a hail of gunfire if he had to,” Evans said.”
            Meyer wasn’t acting negligently, but intentionally.

            “I am still waiting for someone to show me where such things are “accidents”. Unintended, yes. Unfortunate, yes.”
            …….because the constable didn’t intent to shoot the girl, but ended up shooting her anyway through no fault of his own, but the laws of physics.
            “Avoidable, yes.”
            …not after the bullet existed the muzzle.
            “When the officer fired his bullet was sent flying and caused damage he did not want nor desire. It was all preventable, had the bad guy not acted negligently.”
            The father acted intentionally.
            “Do you get it?”
            ….of course, but do you?

          • Kivaari

            YOU STILL DON’T GET IT. The officer was responding appropriately to a threat fro the suspect. When he intended to fire his gun in elf defense, the unwanted injury to the child happened. Tat by definition is NOT an accident.
            Most states have a felony murder law, where those who participate in a crime that leaves an innocent person dead regardless of who killed the person is guilty just like the person that pulled the trigger, used a hammer OR induced a heart attack. The getaway driver or lookout is Justas guilty as the actual person that caused the death.
            In this case, the suspect NELIGENTLY AND INTENTIONALLY violated the law. The constable acted well within the law. He did kill the girl. An excusable homicide as to his actions. A criminal homicide on the part of the man with the rifle. That man intentionally created a situation which led to the child’s death.
            Now tell me, using the law and common sense why this was an accident. Every act was intentional – but only one person was at fault. like every “accident”, there was something someone did to cause the results. A person that is ice climbing and falls to their death in an “accident” really caused their own death. We like to say, “It was just an accident”. Except it could be avoided. The misuse of the word “accident” leads people to actually miss what was behind each situation. As I pointed out using vehicle crashes. There are NO accidents. Following the rules of the road means no one has a traffic conflict. No conflict results in safe driving. If a vehicle part fails, resulting in what you would call an accident, there is more to it. Was the part failure due to poor design, poor construction, poor maintenance or was a road hazard cause the failure? All of those things have a human element that was not an accident.
            Too many people call this an accidental shooting, when it was not that. If it was an accident, a suspect could not be charged with murder, after all it was an accident. No, the intentional firing of a round caused an unwanted death.
            We should stop using the word accident when a man made action created unwanted injury to lives or property.

          • Hyok Kim

            “The officer was responding appropriately to a threat fro the suspect. When he intended to fire his gun in elf defense, the unwanted injury to the child happened. Tat by definition is NOT an accident.” – Kivaari

            “1 An unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury:”

            http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/accident

            “In this case, the suspect NELIGENTLY AND INTENTIONALLY violated the law.” – Kivaari

            http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/personal-injury/intentional-torts-negligence.html

            “The constable acted well within the law. He did kill the girl. An excusable homicide as to his actions.”

            ……..so it was an accident from the perspective of the constable.

            “Now tell me, using the law and common sense why this was an accident.”

            “The father of a 12-year-old Pennsylvania girl accidentally shot by a constable serving eviction papers has been ordered to stand trial in her death.”

            I was speaking from the perspective of the constable.

            “As I pointed out using vehicle crashes. There are NO accidents. Following the rules of the road means no one has a traffic conflict.”

            Icy road? Blizzard? Drifting snow? Hydroplaning?

            “Too many people call this an accidental shooting, when it was not that. If it was an accident, a suspect could not be charged with murder, after all it was an accident.”

            It was an accident from the constable’s point of view.

            “YOU STILL DON’T GET IT.” – Kivaari

            …no, it is you who don’t get it.

          • Kivaari

            Obviously you have never worked in government or law enforcement. Well, I have. Casual language will include “accident”. It wont be used except in error in reports. Shootings are either intentional or not intentional. Semantics makes you fall back on street usage or that word.
            I served on a child death review board in addition to police and state traffic commission work. Guess what, we did not have any accidents to report on. We had events that resulted from humans. The closest thing to an accident is like 4 women being crush by a landslide as they drove along I90. Was it an accident? Well, no. It wasn’t an act of God either. It cost the state a pile of money to the victims because the states highway engineers did not allow for such things to happen. By going for the cheap route they decided to not move more earth so if it fell it would not hit anyone or anything that had value.
            So tell me why an “accidental overdose” of a child in a hospital leaving a kid dead was an “accident”. That was negligence.
            Tell me why a person shooting themselves in the hand was an “accident”. It was not an accident, it was negligent gun handling. Who was at fault? If you haven’t figure it out, it was they guy with the loaded gun pointed at his hand. It was an intentional discharge of weapon in violation of all safe gun handling rules.
            Had he been struck by lightning that might be the closest thing to an accident.
            Don’t rely on newspaper reporters or TV news casters or lawmakers to get the legal terms correct. The common person in the US will use the term improperly. I’ve given you enough of the real world usage or misusage f the term. I’ll stick with how we had to view all reports involving crashes, deaths, medical malpractice and more. If you want to use the term, go ahead. I don’t have to accept you limited understanding of the real world.

          • Hyok Kim

            “As I pointed out using vehicle crashes. There are NO accidents. Following the rules of the road means no one has a traffic conflict.” – Kivaari

            Icy road? Blizzard? Drifting snow? Hydroplaning?

            “Obviously you have never worked in government or law enforcement.” – Kivaari

            ……but I have conversed with many retired cops, some current cops, and some involuntary(in fact 3 of them) ex-cops.
            So I have very good idea of how each 3 groups talk. First, two groups tend to talk very matter of facts, very little bragging. The last one, on the other hand, are pathological braggarts, love to brag about ‘what they have done’ and how much ‘more’ they know than others, over the years, yada yada yada, kinda………..

            ” Well, I have. Casual language will include “accident”. It wont be used except in error in reports. Shootings are either intentional or not intentional. Semantics makes you fall back on street usage or that word.
            I served on a child death review board in addition to police and state traffic commission work. Guess what, we did not have any accidents to report on. We had events that resulted from humans. The closest thing to an accident is like 4 women being crush by a landslide as they drove along I90. Was it an accident? Well, no. It wasn’t an act of God either. It cost the state a pile of money to the victims because the states highway engineers did not allow for such things to happen. By going for the che ap route they decided to not move more earth so if it fell it would not hit anyone or anything that had value.
            So tell me why an “accidental overdose” of a child in a hospital leaving a kid dead was an “accident”. That was negligence.
            Tell me why a person shooting themselves in the hand was an “accident”. It was not an accident, it was negligent gun handling. Who was at fault? If you haven’t figure it out, it was they guy with the loaded gun pointed at his hand. It was an intentional discharge of weapon in violation of all safe gun handling rules.
            Had he been struck by lightning that might be the closest thing to an accident.
            Don’t rely on newspaper reporters or TV news casters or lawmakers to get the legal terms correct. The common person in the US will use the term improperly. I’ve given you enough of the real world usage or misusage f the term. I’ll stick with how we had to view all reports involving crashes, deaths, medical malpractice and more. If you wa nt to use the term, go ahead. I don’t have to accept you limited understanding of the real world.” – Kivaari

            You have so much experience in LE, yet you don’t even understand the difference between intentional and negligent?

            “In this case, the suspect NELIGENTLY AND INTENTIONALLY violated the law.” – Kivaari

            “How an injury-related insurance claim or lawsuit proceeds will depend in part upon what kind of tort is being alleged. Personal injury cases come in all shapes and sizes, but almost all claims are based on one of two underlying arguments:
            ⦁ the plaintiff (the injured person) suffered harm because of carelessness on the part of the defendant, or
            ⦁ the plaintiff’s injuries were caused by a purposeful act committed by the defendant.
            The first scenario described above encompasses negligent torts, while the second captures intentional torts. In this article, we’ll take a closer look at how negligent torts and intentional torts are defined, offer some examples of each, and more. (Note: In legalese, “tort” is just another word for a legal wrong committed by one person against another” from alllaw dot com

          • Kivaari

            Funny stuff. Did it ever dawn on you that having a crash in ice, snow or blizzards are the direct result of driving too fast for conditions. It may be so bad that no driving would be ordered. Like when state shut down entire highway systems.
            My wife had crashes in ice and snow. Two of them and each crash came with a traffic ticket for driving too fast for conditions. She was going very slow both times when large trucks passed her and the pressure wave was enough to push her aside into a barricade and a snow bank.
            When I was a cop and ran a traffic safety project for the state, we wrote tickets at almost every crash (if the responsible driver was still alive). At the state and federal level, there are NO accidents.
            Did you ever get it that we buy insurance for crashes. Our insurance pays for both the other parties injuries=damages and your own, even when you were in the wrong. Now as I said about my spouse, she was at fault. It would be nice to be able to blame the state for having a crash barricade with a long history of crashes, except that wont fly most places. Although they did finally extend that barricade following many crashes and three fatalities. Could we blame the state for leaving a snow pile next to the roadway so there was no way to recover from the movement caused by the pressure wave? NO. We did protest the Idaho case since the history at that site was well known. In the Washington case, the freeway was closed to all traffic within minutes of her crash. So, was the state negligent for not closing it 30 minutes earlier They have barricade arms that mechanically close all points of access. So all the people on the road were permitted there by the state. Crashes were happening just about every minute near the summit of the pass. So, all the people on the road needed to reduce speed, put chains on or studded tires and 4×4 operation. If they crashed, they got a ticket. That is why there are NO accidents in cars or gun ranges. Negligent gun handling.
            While I instructed fellow police officers in firearms use we could not have accidents. We had negligent discharges. Some candidates were rejected from service because of poor gun handling practices.

          • Hyok Kim

            “When I was a cop and ran a traffic safety project for the state, we wrote tickets at almost every crash (if the responsible driver was still alive). At the state and federal level, there are NO accidents.
            While I instructed fellow police officers in firearms use we could not have accidents. We had negligent discharges. Some candidates were rejected from service because of poor gun handling practices.” – Kivaari

            “In this case, the suspect NELIGENTLY AND INTENTIONALLY violated the law.” – Kivaari

            “You have so much experience in LE, yet you don’t even understand the difference between intentional and negligent?” – Hyok Kim

            Are you a gypsy cop reliving the glory days?

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gypsy_cop

          • Kivaari

            Funny stuff. You do not know anything about such matters. You still think you have an accident in the snow and ice, when a smart person would know it isn’t safe to drive as fast as they like when it is under 2 feet of snow and compact ice. If you believe in accidents, then you also must like the tooth fairy.

          • Hyok Kim

            “When I was a cop and ran a traffic safety project for the state, we wrote tickets at almost every crash (if the responsible driver was still alive). At the state and federal level, there are NO accidents.
            While I instructed fellow police officers in firearms use we could not have accidents. We had negligent discharges. Some candidates were rejected from service because of poor gun handling practices.” – Kivaari

            “In this case, the suspect NELIGENTLY AND INTENTIONALLY violated the law.” – Kivaari

            “You have so much experience in LE, yet you don’t even understand the difference between intentional and negligent?” – Hyok Kim

            Are you a gypsy cop?

            http://tort.laws.com/negligence-standard-of-conduct/negligence-tort

          • Wyatt Earp

            You worked in a jurisdiction where you could write tickets for unwitnessed misdemeanors? You’d last about three minutes in court. The ‘only’ “evidence” you’d have is hearsay, as you never saw the accident. ALL police reports are hearsay. That’ the first thing I do, is object to all police reports as hearsay.

            It doesn’t matter whether this bozo did the stupidest thing in the world, the range was negligent for not having an RSO and several other things.

          • Kivaari

            Wyatt, Are you writing to Kim or me? Obviously you have no idea of how investigations of any kind. Did you not know that police investigate vehicle crashes, gather evidence, take witness statements and file reports? Did you know that many traffic offenses are not even criminal in nature, not even misdemeanors? “NOI” Notice of Infraction, a civil case. If cops did not write tickets or submit reports to the prosecutor in those cases that are either NOI, criminal misdemeanor, gross misdemeanor or felony, they would be fired for neglecting their duty. I guess you have no idea any of those things are done. Like the real Wyatt Earp, he even witnessed a murder while he was a deputy sheriff in Murray when his drinking partner shot a man for giving h the evil eye. Some people just don’t know when and how to do their jobs.
            I guess you guys learned police work by watching Dragnet and Adam 12. I take that back, those shows did show how much of the job is done. Maybe you should attend a basic police course or citizens and do a ride along.

          • Hyok Kim

            “You worked in a jurisdiction where you could write tickets for unwitnessed misdemeanors?”

            No, I was never in LE, but I know what you are talking about.

          • Kivaari

            It’s absolutely negligent to take an action that results in this ending.

          • Hyok Kim

            “It’s absolutely negligent to take an action that results in this ending.” – Kivaari

            The constable had not predicted the how the bullet would travel through the father’s arm and exit to hit the girl.

          • Kivaari

            You keep bouncing back to the constable. The person that was negligent was the suspect. Every action resulted from his intentionally negligent acts. Get over what the constable did, as none it would have happened had the suspect obeyed the court documents, or better yet paid his bills when they were due. His voluntary choices led to this disaster. HIS actions were both intentional and negligent. I do not find the acts of the constable to be an issue here.

          • Hyok Kim

            “You keep bouncing back to the constable.” – Kivaari

            He’s the one who fired the bullet that killed the girl, and I was referring to the consequence of his action as accident.

            https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/01/13/i-just-hope-she-didnt-suffer-constable-kills-12-year-old-girl-when-he-shoots-at-her-father-police-say/

            “The person that was negligent was the suspect.” – Kivaari

            “In this case, the suspect NELIGENTLY AND INTENTIONALLY violated the law.” – Kivaari

            “Every action resulted from his intentionally negligent acts.” – Kivaari
            “His voluntary choices led to this disaster. HIS actions were both intentional and negligent.” – Kivaari

            “Intentional torts are different from negligence claims, in that intentional torts are the infliction of injury or damage to property that was carried out with malice, willfulness or reckless disregard for the other person’s rights.”

            http://www.majorinjurylaw.com/intentional-torts.htm

            “Get over what the constable did, as none it would have happened had the suspect obeyed the court documents, or better yet paid his bills when they were due. I do not find the acts of the constable to be an issue here.” – Kivaari

            Did I say it was? Who are arguing with?

            “In this case, the suspect NELIGENTLY AND INTENTIONALLY violated the law.” – Kivaari

            “You have so much experience in LE, yet you don’t even understand the difference between intentional and negligent?” – Hyok Kim

            Are you a wannabee imaginary retired veteran cop?

          • Kivaari

            IK, what ever you say, since you are in no position of trust or authority that decides who, what, when, where, how or why people get charged with crimes or suffer civil penalties often decided by America’s most ignorant people, a jury of your peers.

          • Hyok Kim

            “Go read a law book. Look up negligent driving. An intentional activity.” – Kivaari

            Willful reckless driving (deliberate & intentional) 6 Points
            Negligent driving (indifferent, offhand, neglectful) 3 Points
            http://www.dmv.nebraska.gov/frd/pts.html

            “When I was a cop and ran a traffic safety project for the state, we wrote tickets at almost every crash (if the responsible driver was still alive). At the state and federal level, there are NO accidents.” – Kivaari

          • Wakeupnow2014

            Good luck getting people to accept the ground level facts of what leads up to an “accident”. I understand exactly what you are pointing out. I.E. the black man that was shot by a LEO in north Charleston SC after he fought to take his Taser and then started running.
            Bottom line is if he had not resisted arrest none of the following would have ever happened.

          • Kivaari

            Watch the video and you can see the suspect grab the TASER, as he breaks away from the cop he throws it behind the cop. The cop thought the guy still had his TASER. The cop would likely been OK, had he not gone back and moved the TASER to the body. That showed the wrong attitude – oooopppsss.

          • Wakeupnow2014

            I agree. The cold reality is the man would have never been shot if he had complied from the start.

          • Kivaari

            You got it.

        • Budogunner

          Suspect a malfunction? Keep the muzzle in a safe direction, make it safe, and remediate.

          In this case, the laser system obviously had nothing to do with the gun going bang. I cannot fathom why you wouldn’t think to at least swing the cylinder open before troubleshooting. Ideally, unload completely.

      • Cymond

        I once had a guy get flustered while clearing his pistol, as he had hundreds of times before, but this time he made a misstep.
        This time, he pulled the slide and dropped the mag, in that order, leaving him with a round in the chamber. He instantly knew he’d done something wrong, but was operating on muscle memory, and was confused for a moment. He muzzled me for a second. It was very unnerving.

      • Wakeupnow2014

        Agree 100%. operational safety has to be paramount and constant. Not a hit or a miss.

    • Evan

      So any time you have an issue with your guns, you look down the barrel to try and clear it?

      • iowaclass

        No. But I am aware of many self-inflicted tragedies, and, in furtherance of prevention and instruction, it is important to understand these incidents as cognitive phenomena rather than moral failings.

        • Evan

          Moral failing? Not necessarily. Though if someone is that willing to disregard basic safety rules in regards to himself, I can’t imagine that he’s overly cautious about safety rules in regards to anyone else, either. But there’s a difference between “simple mistake” and that. A “simple mistake” is when I, as a left handed shooter, was shooting a Mauser from a supported position, cycled the bolt with my right hand while leaving my firing hand in place, and the bolt took a chunk out of my left thumb. This is more than a simple mistake. This is violating every safety rule in the book.

          • Bill

            It could very well be a moral failing. Gun owners/users have a moral, ethical and legal responsibility to not be careless, negligent, reckless or incompetent. It’s a cliche, but with great power…. Shooters have to commit to excellence in weapons handling.

          • Evan

            I agree. It isn’t necessarily a moral failing, but it likely is. It’s certainly beyond stupid.

        • Devil_Doc

          That’s a lot of really big words, when all that needs to be said is “don’t point a loaded gun at your hand and pull the trigger”.

          • iowaclass

            Obviously, more needs to be said, and demonstrated by instruction. This guy did not get a gun and end up on an indoor range without ever reading or hearing the three rules. Remember, there were TWO people present, and NEITHER of them registered the danger. There is a non-trivial mind-body component to gun safety.

    • Bill

      Empathy? Sure. Sympathy, no. Anyone can have a careless moment, but not everyone. 4 simple rules, and this wouldn’t have happened.

      I’ve never caught my @#$% in my zipper, ’cause I am careful and pay attention to what I’m doing.

      • iowaclass

        I always wondered if I would encounter some transcendent Zen master who could explain the difference between empathy and sympathy.

        • iksnilol

          Empathy is the capacity to understand or feel what another being is experiencing from within the other being’s frame of reference. That is put yourself into their shoes so to speak.

          Sympathy is something you have for the devil.

          Sympathy is the perception, understanding, and reaction to the distress or need of another human being. So sympathy can be emphathetic.

    • Rick O’Shay

      Careless? This was flat out reckless. Careless is dry firing grandpa’s old rimfire rifle. Or forgetting about muzzle blast and shattering a tail light. Or giving yourself scope bite. This exceeds careless.

      • iowaclass

        It was crazy. But the man did it to his own hand. It was not a moral disregard, but a purely cognitive lapse. Let he who has not had an utterly oblivious moment in his life step forth.

        • Devil_Doc

          Was it that difficult to unload the gun prior to troubleshooting? Let he who has no holes in his hand, uh..raise his hand.

        • Kivaari

          I did put a hole in my mother office desk, as I was pointing an “unloaded” M2 carbine in a safe direction. Oops. It punched her desk, the wall, a vanity and stopped in a baseboard. A while later she and aunt Elsa were painting the room, and my dad walked by and asked what the hole was for. Mom, such a sweet lady, quickly said, “It’s for a TV cable”. I wish I still had that M2. I was away in the Navy when the amnesty came along.

    • Brad Nims

      I normally have sympathy for people who have true accidents or incidents of negligence that the average person is capable of having but this goes WAY beyond that.

      If you are so stupid that you would place your hand willingly in front of the muzzle of a loaded handgun and squeeze the trigger then you are the type of person I don’t want anywhere near a firearm.

      In a way I’m more upset with his friend. Why didn’t he say anything? These are two grown-ass men and they should know better. It appears to be a Kimber so they have more money than brains. Just makes me shake my head.

      No sympathy from me.

      • iowaclass

        Understand that what you’re saying means there should be some pretty serious official vetting of gun owners before they can take possession of a firearm. If that kind of accident is purely because of uncorrectable stupidity, then we are all put to an unacceptable risk unless gun owners have to pass the functional equivalent of an intelligence test.

        • Brad Nims

          I’m not saying that at all. I’m no proponent of any more serious background checks than we currently have, hell I would like for them to be less strenuous. I’m a constitutionalist so nearly all forms of gun control are unacceptable to me.

          What I’m saying is these people need to accept on a personal level that morally they are not capable of being safe and should choose not to partake in owning firearms. I never said they should be barred from owning firearms by the government. I’m merely suggesting an exercise in personal responsibility.

          If you are incapable of being safe with a firearm due to a lack of intelligence you should be responsible enough to recognize this and stop endangering yourself or those around you

          • iowaclass

            Dumb person with gun should realize he is too dumb for gun. That won’t happen. Not until it’s too late.

    • Edeco

      I’m not unempathetic I wish he would have gotten away with it. Seeing him just get 86’d would’ve been hilarious. But I’ve nothing to learn from this. I already believed in the four rules, the laser guy either didn’t or had some kind of attention span problem.

      • iowaclass

        My guess is that he thought he had shot it dry; didn’t realize one was in the chamber. “All guns are loaded until proven otherwise” and when that slips, the other rules slip by also, because people act like they are holding an unloaded gun.

        • Edeco

          First, that’s not the rule #1 I’m familiar with. Second if the other rules slip that falls under having an attention span problem. Though I think no one who can drive a car successfully is really that deficient; it’s just a matter of believing in the rules as sincerely as one believes in stoplights.

    • iksnilol

      There’s a problem with that:

      He could have just (like any sane person would) aim at the table right in front of him.

      • Phil Hsueh

        Or, more reasonable, since it doesn’t involve potentially putting hole through the ranges furniture, pull the target back in to its closest and then aim it at the target. While it’s a little further away than one’s hand I’m sure that if you leaned forward a little you could have the muzzle as close to the paper as he did his hand.

    • Zachary marrs

      He managed to violate all 4 firearms saftey rules.

      That is not a careless moment, that is a pure stupidity moment.

      • iowaclass

        If someone or something gets shot by accident, all three, or four, or five, “firearm safety rules” (depending on how you count) have been violated by definition. Nothing gets shot by accident if just one or two of the rules are violated.

        • Zachary marrs

          Accident? He violated some of the most simple, and redundant saftey rules, and shot himself.

          Sure lots of people accidentally shoot themselves, but guess what? Tons of people who aren’t complete fools manage to go their whole lives without shooting themselves.

          You seem hell bent on defending this guy, do you know him? Are you him?

          • iowaclass

            Yes, in fact, I am that very man who shot himself in the hand on the video clip. And I can tell you, it’s been difficult doing all this typing with a .45-sized hole in my palm.

            Elsewhere, I was musing on how it is that the gun-rights movement has found itself in the present situation, Election Year 2016, where our most basic rights are hanging on the prospects of … Ted Cruz and … Donald Trump. Respect for the Second Amendment has now become a “package deal” with such brilliant economic ideas as return to the Gold Standard, or a 30% tariffs on imports. Zachary and Evan have made this conundrum a little more understandable. Most illuminating.

          • Zachary marrs

            Lay off the drugs dude.

  • tyrannyofevilmen

    Keep campaigning for that Darwin award, Son, and soon you will be elected.

    • SP mclaughlin

      Hopefully if he does shoot his hand, it wouldn’t kill him at least.

      • Budogunner

        Hollywood makes it seem like a gunshot is instantly fatal anywhere. He’d live s long as he kept himself from bleeding out on the way to the ER. Basic first aid will get you that far. Absolute worst case I can imagine is having to use a tourniquet for too long if he couldn’t stop the bleeding with pressure and he might lose the hand. Not very likely, though.

        Now, I can’t tell you what the attending surgeon and subsequent reconstructive surgeons could do about restoring function. That’s a different topic all together.

        • Wyatt Earp

          Movement of the fingers (1-4) are mostly controlled by muscles in the forearm. The thumb is mostly controlled by muscles in the thenar eminence (at the base of the thumb) and hypothenar eminence (medial to the thenar).

          In other words, he short his metacarpal(s) and some tendons. My guess he will recover fine to shot himself against.

          • Bill

            I’d be just as concerned about blast damage if his hand were closer to the muzzle.

          • Kivaari

            Unburned power in the wound would be cleaned out. It had to hurt.

        • Ji Shen

          My father’s right hand was shot, when the PEOPLE’S L-whatever army opened fire to peaceful unarmed civilian protesters in Beijing, in the mid-night of June 3d 1989. The round fired at him was possibly a 7.62×39 FMJ, from a then newly deployed Type 81-1 assault rifle, over 200 meters. The round was designed for penetrate steel helmet, flak jacket and thin metal board, and of course, meets the standard of Hague Convention (not expanding after hit). Both wounds(in and exit) were on the center palm, neat and clean, with quite small scar left. And after several surgeons which performed by the best doctor we could find back then, my father’s hand lost 90% of its function, now can only grab (but not hold) big objects. It’s just like a stick, or a bad shaped cedar branch.
          Of course it was a rifle bullet, with higher energy. But as stated, it was not expanding type. Also the lesser thickness of hand doesn’t provides enough space for it rolling or splitting. But it still caused disastrous damage.
          Now back to this video. It’s a pistol, likely a 1911, so the calibre could be at least 9mm, or better(worse?), 0.45 inch.
          Even better(worse???), since civilian firearms don’t need to comply the Hague Convention, then there was possible a Hollow-point or other expanding type of rounds loaded. Also the blast damage caused by the muzzle.
          So my opinion is, this guy can say farewell to his left hand, the hand itself may be saved than cut off, but without much function left.
          I will watch this video again, then put it in my personal achieve and mark it as ‘MOST IMPORTANT’, and show it to my now 7 year old son, before his first visit to the shooting range in the future. This will be a perfect safety lesson for both of us.

        • Kivaari

          As a child in the 50s, we heard war stories about hitting a man with a .45 in his pinky finger and being flipped. It was BS then as well. As well got older and bought our own .45s, we learned real quick most gun tales are BS.

      • Bill

        Firearms instructors routinely debate calibers and how much damage they’d do to a hand, or how much luck it would take for a 9mm FMJ round to pass through just pushing tendons out of the way and missing bones. Many of us have had to physically grab guns when trainees would start to turn around on the line or do something else equally stupid, you learn quick to lead with your left if you’re right-handed.

        • Kivaari

          Chances are most bullets would shove most critical structures aside. Yet, bones could break and nerve damaged. FMJ 9mm or .45 have a lower potential to cut important structures. Bones move less easily.
          It is why so many handgun wounds do so little damage allowing for good healing.

    • Kivaari

      At least he wasn’t trying to blind himself with it.

  • TVOrZ6dw

    I bet that hurt. It hurt me just watching.

  • Bill

    At first I thought it was fake, but you can just make out blood dripping on the floor…

  • TechnoTriticale

    This article needs a “trigger warning”,
    so to speak.

  • Topo Solitario

    I wonder what the two guys are saying…

    Ben the Pro: “So Josh, you’re in your way to be an operator, have to loose some pounds, but, to trully be a holly infidel hunter you’ll need some good stigmata”
    Josh the Operator: “But Ben, I’ve no nails at hand”
    Ben the Pro: “And there comes the ol’ 1911 in handy, just put your hand like this and…”
    Josh the Operator: “Holly molly Ben!! that is great, look so real to me!”

    A little black humour is always saludable (well, it is unlikely saludable, usually, but fun most of the time)

  • Darhar M.

    Brain disconnect.

  • Gorilla Biscuit

    Perfect timing for the new LaserMax clothing line!!!

  • Gorilla Biscuit

    Dang! How many megawatts was that laser????

  • Devil_Doc

    He’s going to want to apply direct pressure to that…

  • Gorilla Biscuit

    IDK

  • wetcorps

    I’m not sure this is what they meant by “crimson trace”.

    • DIR911911 .

      splatter?

      • Evan

        If you look closely, you can see him bleeding all over the floor.

        • Gorilla Biscuit

          Drip mode

    • Edeco

      Crimson trail :S

  • Kivaari

    Well, that was a dumb thing to do.

  • Kivaari

    I wonder if he will sue, Kimber, Crimson Trace, the ammo maker, the gun store he bought it at and the range?

    • Wakeupnow2014

      I’m positive it was “Bush’s fault”

      • Kivaari

        Wasn’t everything?

        • Wakeupnow2014

          Of course per the demtards and progressive liberals

  • SirOliverHumperdink

    There’s also probably a video of the same guy accidentally getting his girlfriend pregnant floating around the net somewhere.

    • Budogunner

      For some reason I am inclined to trust “SirOliverHumperdink” in these matters.

  • gunsandrockets

    Hard way to learn such a basic rule of safety.

    But I suppose it could have been worse, he might have killed himself or another.

  • USMC03Vet

    Fake

    • Edeco

      The thought crossed my mind. Well done if so.

  • Audie Bakerson

    “if it wasnt there it can’t go off”

    If it’s a well made gun it can’t go off. Early Sten and Type 94 can definitely still go off.

  • Joe

    The equivalent of this in the kitchen appliance anology is sticking your hand into a blender full of nails thats plugged into an outlet that has worked every other time you’ve plugged something into it, and flipping the on switch, setting the mode to puree’ and then pressing the button with your hand still in the blender. Firearms have so many safety’s it’s ridiculous. This guy probably double parks, talks on his phone in the grocery check out line, and Wipes forward.

    • Budogunner

      The most frustrating part is that, gun components disregarded, his brain clearly failed and yet there is a second brain witnessing this that does not stop the stupid.

      This is 200% gun safety fail.

      • Kivaari

        The witness probably didn’t want to offend the shooter. Courtesy trumped brains.

    • Remmy700P

      OK… the “wipes forward” comment FTW.

  • Jim

    Hope the range had a trauma kit handy (hint to range owners). Beer Belly was lucky he didn’t get stitched also after the N/D. Notice how the muzzle swept past him before the shooter dropped it. Bad thing with autos and novice shooters is that once a N/D occurs, there is another fresh round chambered and ready to fire in the hands of a scared sh**less shooter that is not thinking about muzzle discipline.

  • DIR911911 .

    showed this video to a girl at work I plan on taking to the range one day soon , even before he fired it she was calling him out for having his hand in front of the gun . . . and she’s never shot one before.

    • Budogunner

      My CCDW Instructor’s course instructor had a malfunction with a .17 hmr 1911 conversion on the range after class was over. He pulled the slide back and pointed the muzzle at his face. Fearing a squib or potential slam fire into his skull I stopped him and asked him, respectfully, just WTF he was doing. He said he was checking the bore for obstructions. I suggested he wait the appropriate time to pass in case of a slow primer then disassemble and check from the BREACH end of the barrel instead. He shrugged and ignored me.

      Keep a beginner’s mentality like your friend. Fear expert mentality. Everyone who ND’s themselves knows what they are doing…

      • Bill

        FWIW, I either break guns down and pull the barrel out to check, or at the very least unload and use a range rod with the weapon pointed downrange.

      • itsmefool

        Beginner’s mentality…now that’s a great idea! Unfortunately, too much testosterone out there for that to catch on!

      • BDUB

        Just like in a car, the Higher-Speed the operator, the worse the accident will be.

  • Gorilla Biscuit

    “I’m the only one professional enough in this room! That I know of to BLAM” Black or White … Jackass fest commences a few times a year for all to see.

  • Martin Grønsdal

    funny thing is that if someone does that ata firing range, few people may react, as gunshots go off all of the time 😉

  • smartacus

    He must have watched the movie Tango And Cash

    That’s the one and only time i’ve ever seen a depiction of a laser being hand-tested like that

    • I’ve seen someone in a gunshop do the same thing.

      • smartacus

        then HE must’ve seen that movie too
        because it’s not a natural inclination to go put a left hand in front
        especially when he can use anything else.

  • BrianZ

    Is it me or does it look like someone is actively manipulating the camera? Judging by the movement during the playback. If so then there was a third set of eyes and a brain that should know better.

  • Sir Charles Darwin

    I am Sir Charles Darwin and I approve of this method of testing lasers. I furthermore wish more people would look down the barrel to see if there is a round in the chamber.
    The gene pool thanks you for this diligence.

  • DanGoodShot

    The video isn’t coming up. Sad.

  • Xerath Bui

    I can’t play the video.

  • steveu

    The Stupid Shall Be Punished!!!

  • Gidge

    One thing I do like about Australian firearms law is you must pass a safety course to get a licence. Since it was implemented in 1996 we had a massive reduction of incidents like this. Basic firearms safety isn’t hard but it’s something you have to have been told at some point

    • Nicholas C

      Look at the safety test people have to take to drive a car. And yet they still manage to have “accidents” or Negligent Driving.

      • Hyok Kim
      • Hyok Kim

        Let me qualify a bit. I think Gidge is trying to say, having a mandatory safety course reduces accidents, not eliminate accidents.
        Of course, despite having a mandatory safety test, we still have many accidents in driving. Does this mean we should do away with mandatory safety driving course?

        • Nicholas C

          No we should actually make them mandatory at a greater frequency. Especially as one ages.

  • Pontificant

    Don’t worry folks! This is just another one of those hardcore Special Forces Russian pistol drills. Where he failed wasn’t the shooting of the hand, his techniques was textbook. He failed in not following up with sending rounds down range. Probably a new recruit

  • nick

    people get complacent….I watched this and was immediately reminded of an experienced infantryman, having his weapon stop , while firing from the standing position. I was RSO on that course of fire and can recall in vivid detail still, see him turning around on the firing point to clear his weapon, while it pointed at me. He was looking down at it when the hang fire primer ignited. Round impacted at my feet.
    Only time I’ve ever charged a solider with an ND offence. He had 9 years in, with two operational tours….I wonder what we can do differently on the range to keep people from having brain fade. He’s good troop, but made a novice mistake.

  • Todd

    The other guy looks like he swallowed a beach ball.
    Perhaps a larger shirt may help.

  • town22

    Should have clear the gun first. This happens because of complacency.

  • BDUB

    He seems like a newish gun owner, but the guy next to him seems like an instructor, or sales person, or more experienced friend – why didn’t he correct him before the accident? We could all see this coming miles away.

  • Steven Hickman

    The herd gets thinned out

  • TheCajunRaven

    Clearly the guy standing next to the shooter was thinking more about his next meal and a cold brew.

  • RickOAA .

    I’ve seen people do that at the gun store. Makes me cringe. If the safety infraction is identified they say, “but it’s unloaded.” Plenty of folks been shot with “unloaded” guns. Now a laser to the face will really get my blood pressure up.

    People also joke about getting their animals to chase the laser attached to their gun. As long as you don’t shoot your cat. True story. Seen it in a movie, too.

  • Hyok Kim

    “In this case, the suspect NELIGENTLY AND INTENTIONALLY violated the law.” – Kivaari

    You have so much experience in LE, yet you don’t even understand the difference between intentional and negligent?

    • Kivaari

      The shooter intentionally pushed the trigger to the rear. In doing so he negligently discharged the pistol into his hand. What don’t you understand?

      • Hyok Kim

        “In this case, the suspect NELIGENTLY AND INTENTIONALLY violated the law.” – Kivaari

        You have so much experience in LE, yet you don’t even understand the difference between intentional and negligent?

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intentional_tort

        • Kivaari

          Which case? The child being killed? The suspect was responsible. A criminal homicide, conditions for which were the fault of the suspect.
          In the range shooting the person that shot himself was wrong.

          • Hyok Kim

            “In this case, the suspect NELIGENTLY AND INTENTIONALLY violated the law.” – Kivaari

            “You have so much experience in LE, yet you don’t even understand the difference between intentional and negligent?” – Hyok Kim

            Are you an ex-wannabe cop?

          • Kivaari

            You need to stop whipping the horse, it’s been rotting for a week. You should look into how we use terms in reports, not the common media.
            As long as my pension check gets deposited every month, I’ll let you think what you want.
            I don’t think you have ever done anything in the real world where words count.

          • Hyok Kim

            “In this case, the suspect NELIGENTLY AND INTENTIONALLY violated the law.” – Kivaari

            “You have so much experience in LE, yet you don’t even understand the difference between intentional and negligent?” – Hyok Kim

            Are you a wannabe imaginary retired veteran cop?

          • Kivaari

            Just keep the pension checks coming and you can call me anything you like. It’s TAX FREE, and it is good.

          • Hyok Kim

            “In this case, the suspect NELIGENTLY AND INTENTIONALLY violated the law.” – Kivaari

            “You have so much experience in LE, yet you don’t even understand the difference between intentional and negligent?” – Hyok Kim

          • Kivaari

            Go read a law book. Look up negligent driving. An intentional activity.

          • Hyok Kim

            “Go read a law book. Look up negligent driving. An intentional activity.” – Kivaari

            Willful reckless driving (deliberate & intentional) 6 Points
            Negligent driving (indifferent, offhand, neglectful) 3 Points

            http://www.dmv.nebraska.gov/frd/pts.html

            “When I was a cop and ran a traffic safety project for the state, we wrote tickets at almost every crash (if the responsible driver was still alive). At the state and federal level, there are NO accidents.” – Kivaari

            Some ‘cop’.

          • Hyok Kim

            “Go read a law book. Look up negligent driving. An intentional activity.” – Kivaari

            Willful reckless driving (deliberate & intentional) 6 Points
            Negligent driving (indifferent, offhand, neglectful) 3 Points
            http://www.dmv.nebraska.gov/frd/pts.html

            “When I was a cop and ran a traffic safety project for the state, we wrote tickets at almost every crash (if the responsible driver was still alive). At the state and federal level, there are NO accidents.” – Kivaari

          • Hyok Kim

            “Go read a law book. Look up negligent driving. An intentional activity.” – Kivaari

            Willful reckless driving (deliberate & intentional) 6 Points
            Negligent driving (indifferent, offhand, neglectful) 3 Points
            http://www.dmv.nebraska.gov/frd/pts.html

            “When I was a cop and ran a traffic safety project for the state, we wrote tickets at almost every crash (if the responsible driver was still alive). At the state and federal level, there are NO accidents.” – Kivaari

          • Hyok Kim

            “Go read a law book. Look up negligent driving. An intentional activity.” – Kivaari

            Willful reckless driving (deliberate & intentional) 6 Points
            Negligent driving (indifferent, offhand, neglectful) 3 Points
            http://www.dmv.nebraska.gov/frd/pts.html

            “When I was a cop and ran a traffic safety project for the state, we wrote tickets at almost every crash (if the responsible driver was still alive). At the state and federal level, there are NO accidents.” – Kivaari

            At least I didn’t pretend to be a retired veteran cop

          • Kivaari

            negligent-vehicular homicide resulting from a “traffic accident”?

          • Hyok Kim

            Does it have anything to do with intentional?

          • Kivaari

            Yes. Everything.

          • Hyok Kim

            “negligent-vehicular homicide resulting from a “traffic accident”?” – Kivaari

            “Does it have anything to do with intentional?” – Hyok Kim

            “Yes. Everything.” – Kivaari

            Willful reckless driving (deliberate & intentional) 6 Points
            Negligent driving (indifferent, offhand, neglectful) 3 Points

            http://www.dmv.nebraska.gov/frd/pts.html

            “When I was a cop and ran a traffic safety project for the state, we wrote tickets at almost every crash (if the responsible driver was still alive). At the state and federal level, there are NO accidents.” – Kivaari

            Some ‘cop’.

          • Hyok Kim

            “negligent-vehicular homicide resulting from a “traffic accident”?” – Kivaari

            “Does it have anything to do with intentional?” – Hyok Kim

            “Yes. Everything.” – Kivaari

            Willful reckless driving (deliberate & intentional) 6 Points

            Negligent driving (indifferent, offhand, neglectful) 3 Points

            http://www.dmv.nebraska.gov/frd/pts.html

            “When I was a cop and ran a traffic safety project for the state, we wrote tickets at almost every crash (if the responsible driver was still alive). At the state and federal level, there are NO accidents.” – Kivaari

            Some ‘cop’.

      • Hyok Kim

        ……….but I wasn’t talking about that. I was talking about the case of constable. Who are you argueing with?

  • Kivaari

    My suggestion is to forget about having a Laser on your gun. If you have an IR Laser and issued NVGs they make sense in a military setting. Over the last 30+ years I have never seen a civilian or police shooter do much more than waste time looking for the dot instead of shooting. If you are in a “typical” defense shooting, you should not have to bother with looking for the dot, you need to be shooting. MOST shootings not on a battlefield are at close range. No one should need sights or lasers. White lights have a place, but they get used way too much, especially in police situations. I’ve seen cops using white lights on pistols when a flashlight was needed. It is poor tactics to use your handgun mounted light during contacts. It’s justified if you have an identified felony suspect, but officers are using them on traffic stops. It may be a high crime area, known for serious crimes, but that alone doesn’t justify pointing a loaded gun around.

    • Nicholas C

      Not true. Visible lasers have a function and a very useful one at that. Lasers work great when the shooter cannot get behind the sights to shoot. Variable arise such as safety or time. For example, I was shooting a night match. Strapped to the back of a ATV Mule I had to shoot targets as soon as I saw them. The ATV was twisting along a course of fire. I had very little time to scan for targets in the dark, ID them bring up the gun and fire before it was out of range. Reloading is an issue here as well. Having a laser was much quicker than getting my irons or even a red dot up for me to see.

      Another option is if you are shooting behind cover and cannot safely get behind your sights to shoot the target. But you might be able to see for a different point of view. Then the laser is projecting the sights onto the target.

      • Kivaari

        I don’t consider use in matches has much utility in the real world. I accept the use in real military engagements. Perhaps some very specialized SWAT uses. I just knew when cops showed up with new lasers or the gun store commandos showed me how their gear worked I could not understand why anyone would waste their time looking for the dot instead if taking the shot. This was real obvious when doing night qualifications. The laser shooters were so slow that in a real confrontation they would likely have already been shot and down before they could find the dot. Sure under a few circumstances a visible laser may ve some use. I’ve just never come across any law enforcement shooting in my area where anyone used, nor needed a laser. I suspect a long drawn out SWAT standoff could provide opportunity to use a laser. But in those same cases, I would suggest LEOs use military grade IR gear.
        Contacts on the street just have never demonstrated to me why a laser would add anything but delay.
        I would never use a laser that replaces the guide rod. as was popular 15-20 years ago. Pretty much every one of those devices fell apart with very minimal use. I saw pretty much every model then in use going to pieces, and I wouldn’t want that in a service gun or personal defense.
        gun.
        If you like them for sporting events, well I guess that’s OK. Just not for me.