This was posted in a Facebook group and the ignorance is astounding. Rationale and ignorance is not something the ATF takes kindly. Gun Addiction is an Instagram account and he posted a photo of his “cosmetic” modification. He drilled a third pin hole in the receiver with a “random sized” drill bit. It is right above the selector switch in the photo above. Which he intends to weld a pin inside.  Plenty of people commented and advised him that he has made a machine gun according to the ATF. Remember the recall on the IWI Galil ACEs? They were recalled for having a third pin hole in their receivers even though you could not simply drop a full auto sear in them either, ATF still considers them a machine gun and must be dealt with accordingly.

Regardless of the legal ramifications, I question the need to drill a hole and welding a pin to fake the look of a full auto. This is like putting Ferrari badges on a Pontiac Fiero. Why? This seems really dumb. Sure there are lowers with the “AUTO” markings on them and I do not have a problem with that. But to deliberately drill a hole for “aesthetics”  seems like a waste of time.


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  • Drew Coleman


    • Andrew

      For drilling that hole…AND for putting a “custom battle worn finish!!1!11!” on a nice new monolithic billet receiver set that now looks like someone ran it through a garbage disposal and then took a big steamy dump on it.

      • El Duderino

        These are the children of the kids in the 80s who would buy a skateboard and beat it to hell for a day to make it look “cool”. Instead of, y’know, riding it hard for a few months like normal people.

        Don’t get me started on shooting Levi’s with birdshot. 😉

  • datimes

    Only the rational of a government agency like ATF could call a pin hole a machine. But they make the rules and violate them at your own peril. This guy is clueless in in the face of good advice.

    • marathag

      ATF called a shoe lace a machine gun, if it got too close to a M14 for awhile

      • Mark Are Reynolds Ⓥ

        Better get me some loafers!

    • The law passed by Congress and signed by the President (not ATF interpretation) States that a machinegun receiver is a “machinegun”.

      Because before they changed that, thy had cases of people who stored unregistered machineguns stripped down and claiming that, because it was disassembled when the ATF found it, they didn’t have a “machinegun” if it wasn’t ready to fire in the condition the cops found it.

      The only “interpretation” ATF has made is that, since an auto sear hole is totally unnecessary for the proper functioning of a legal semiauto AR15, but allows a person to merely drop *uncontrolled* parts in in a few minutes to make a fully functional machinegun, and the only difference between a legal AR15 semiauto receiver and a full auto “M16” (the ATF, as a matter of senantic convenience, calls all full auto AR15 receivers “M16s” to differentiate them from semiauto AR15 receivers) receiver is that one hole. (Colt’s “anti-DIAS” shelf they leave unmilled isn’t actually legally required; it’s something their lawyers came up with to avoid liability for a guy who dropped an unregistered DIAS in a Colt SP1.)

      As for ATF being all hot and bothered, even if the hole is dimensionally off, well, they treat SOTs the same way. An “M16” received built by Colt with a misdrilled autosear hole is still a machinegun receiver – just a poorly built one, and it has to be treated as an MG.

      • Mark Are Reynolds Ⓥ

        Except for one small issue. You CAN’T put an AUTO SEAR in a AR15 receiver by just drilling a hole. You have to actually MILL the receiver out to be able to get the sear to fit. So just having a hole and calling the receiver a machine gun is BULL CRAP.

        • Except you are simply factually incorrect.

          That raised shelf isn’t legally required, which is why *none* of my perfectly legal AR15 receivers have them.

          It was incorporated into *Colt* semi receivers at the direction of *Colt lawyers*, not because ATF required it, but to void *Colt* possibly getting sued if some criminal installed a DIAS.

          As far as the ATF is concerned, that hole alone is the legally distinguishing feature between a legal semiauto AR15 and a full auto machinegun receiver.

          • Mark Are Reynolds Ⓥ

            Except I’m factually incorrect? An auto sear will not fit in a semi auto receiver. When I was a law enforcement officer in Florida years ago our department had M16’s. I looked at one just out of curiosity and the area where the sear is located is milled out WIDER then the regular A15 receivers. I saw why, so don’t tell me I’m incorrect. I’m not talking about Colts that added a steel insert to keep them from being milled out, I’m talking about the millions of AR 15 receivers that are on AR15’s. They would have to be milled out to accept an auto sear.
            And you would have to have the bolt carrier and fire control group as well as the proper safety selector to get it to waste ammo.

          • JumpIf NotZero

            You are incorrect. It will fit. Everyone has auto carrier already. You need the sear, pin, auto fcg including the safety.

            When working with an SOT I did this. No milling required.

          • You can *legally* have a semiauto AR15 receiver that is dimensionally identical to an “M16” receiver, with the exception of that one hole. Period.

            That’s why that one hole is the ATF distinguishing feature between an “M16” (as they call all full auto AR15 receivers) and an AR15 receiver.

            The width or depth of the FCG pocket *is not* what ATF has determined the distinguishing feature is, and manufacturers can mill itnout to “M16” Sims or leave just enough room for semiauto parts, as they choose.

            That’s why an RDIAS can “drop in” (Hell, “drip in is part of the name) to a legal semiauto AR15 received without any alternation of the receiver (unless the manufacturer chose to leave legally irrelevant extra material behind.)

          • Mark Are Reynolds Ⓥ

            But no one makes them that way. I’ve never seen an AR 15 receiver that was made so that an auto sear could be put in without more metal removed. But, heck I’ve not looked that close to them for a few years. So I’ll concede that maybe there are semi receivers that would accept an auto sear with just the hole.

  • Bear The Grizzly

    This shows a couple of things.
    1. The laws are ignorant and overly complex.
    2. Most people think just because something is “common sense” it wouldn’t be illegal.
    3. People would rather argue than listen to reason.

    • Paul Joly

      Common sense isn’t to think that a receiver with a 3 positions selector and a full auto sear pin hole isn’t a full auto receiver.

      • Bear The Grizzly

        You make a fair point. I totally missed the 3 position safety, but it still seems to me unless it can physically go to full auto at the flip of a switch it shouldn’t be considered a machine gun.

        • flyfishr

          The selector is an easy part to change. You can’t undo a hole. As crappy as the law is, I can respect a clear line that I know not to cross.

          • randomswede

            Tig welding is an art, but I think there’s a fair few who could weld a pair of plugs in.
            I know it’s beside the point and nit picky, I’m just adding that you can undo a hole in aluminum.

          • Lt_Scrounge

            It would be cheaper to buy a new receiver and melt this one down for scrap.

          • randomswede

            It’s a fairly small job but finding a welder who is OK with working on an FFL item could be the hard part.
            But the rifle looks like a dogs beloved chew toy so I suspect you may be correct.

          • Mark Are Reynolds Ⓥ

            Clear line? Ever read the 2nd amendment? Seems to me that the ATF is the one who has crossed a clear line.

          • Salty

            Amen preach it brother! That’s what I told them at the big Tulsa gun show, I pointed to the crowd and said, make all the laws you want, but at the end of the day, if no-one cares (we’re getting there, what with politicians not caring about the law, why should we), your “laws” are irrelevant. I was really speaking of the silly SIG brace, but in general as well. Spend 20 min in a gun store observing (mom and pop size) and a gun with some “illegal” feature will walk in the door…at the end of the day, gun crimes when comitted with other crimes are typically not prosecuted, so like someone above said, if you’re not in the midst of robbing a 7-11 with a swan off 870, who cares?!?!?!

          • MichaelZWilliamson

            And when SCOTUS agrees with us on that, we’ll get rid of the agency.

            Until then, I won’t be risking a “receiver hole” in my backside at the federal pen.

        • Mark Are Reynolds Ⓥ

          Well, gee, you have a brain and common sense. You would NEVER be hired by the ATF.

          • Lt_Scrounge

            I’ve dealt with ATF investigators and you have no idea how right you are.

          • Juanito Ibañez, TopCop1988

            DITTO that!

        • The plain text of the law says otherwise. Otherwise, any full auto receiver that simply happened to have semiauto parts installed at the time would be legally a semiauto, even if you had a full set of full auto parts ready to install hidden in the garage

          • Mark Are Reynolds Ⓥ

            When it comes to these what you call “laws” which are really only statutory rules being foisted under the color of law, they are NEVER so easy to read and understand.
            What does the 2nd amendment say? It is EASY to read and understand. SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.

          • I actually agree with you.

            However, in the Real World, we have to either amend the Constitution to emphasize and clarify that enough to eliminate misunderstandings, get SCOTUS to agree with us, or reboot the entire government and start from scratch.

            Until then, rational people have to accept that not everyone agrees with their interpretation, and we are kind of stuck with the system of adjudicating which interpretations are legally correct.

      • M

        Wait, did they say he had a 3 position selector or are you just pointing out the auto markings on the receiver?
        Because the markings are very common, real three position safeties are not

        • They drilled a hole for the auto selector. Yes, they drilled it incorrectly, but it is hardly a secret that the ATF has been saying, since about *1970*, that an “extra hole” in an AR15 receiver anywhere in the vicinity of the auto sear hole location meets the *statutory* definition if a receiver that is “readily restored” to a machinegun receiver, and is therefore *statutorily* a “machinegun”.

          It isn’t necessarily illegal to have full auto fire control group componants, if the gun won’t go full auto. But is *is* illegal to have an unregistered “machinegun receiver”, even if you don’t have *any* other parts for it, because a stripped MG received is *statutorily* a machinegun, all by itself.

          • Mark Are Reynolds Ⓥ

            Which shows how F**KING stupid the “statutory” crap is. LEARN ABOUT THE POWER OF THE JURY and learn to say NOT GUILTY for PRETEND crimes.

          • Be willing to bet I could design an autoswar that would work in thatvhole he drilled. Which would mean he would be about five minutes from having a gun he could readily convert back and forth from semiauto rifle to machinegun, with no evidence of the conversion, other than the hole… unless you actually caught him in the act, with the autosear installed.

            And guys doing that sort of crap to *willfully* break the law and get away with it are why they changed the law.

            Drill *that* hole, and you’ve made a machinegun receiver. It isn’t an esoteric legal interpretation.

            Personally, I’d rather get rid of 922(o), if not the entire NFA, but if any gun configuration laws are Constitutional *at all*, prohibiting something so readily configurable to an illegal machinegun certainly qualifies as Constitutional.

          • Mark Are Reynolds Ⓥ

            OK, so how long do you suppose it would take the guy to design the sear and then make it and have it ready to install? And just pop it in? He’d have to make a new design for where the sear spring fits, where it attaches etc. Seriously, INTENT is what makes something a “crime”. He obviously had no intent. If I was him I’d fill the hole to keep them from stealing his receiver at the least.

          • I could do the design work in about five minutes. I’m not a very good machinist, but I know plenty of guys who could build it to mybsoecs in about the same time in their garage.

            This isn’t nuclear physics.

            And since the language of the law (not mere administrative interpretation) explicitly states that a stripped machinegun receiver is legally a mahinegun all by its lonesome, *and* that something “readily restored” to function as a machinegun is legally a machinegun, it doesnt matter if he’s made the parts or not. In fact, I could design the parts and have then built *right now*, and it wouldn’t be illegal. Because itnisnt illegal to have full auto parts, unless those parts can be dropped into a legal semiauto receiver with *no alteration to the receiver* (in which case, the *parts*, not the *receiver*, are the machinegun” in the law.

            I could order a complete M16 FCG and bolt carrier, and they are just “parts”. (Now, *if*, and *only if*, that combination of parts will make a legal semiauto AR fire automatically – some will, some.won’t – it is illegal to have those parts in conjunction with a rifle that can go full auto with them. If all of my rifles won’t go full auto with then, they’re still just ” parts”. Now that *is* “just an interpretation” by ATF, but one they’ve held consistently to for decades.)

            There is no *mechanical” reason to drill a hole around there *except* to facilitate an autosear. And that hoke is the *only* mehanical difference between the two receivers that matters to ATF. Which is why ATF says, “drill a hole there, and you just made a machinegun.”. And I think that ruling was made way back in 1970 or so, back when they had to decide (because of the 1968 GCA that reauthorized and updated the 1934 NFA) which part of an AR15 was the ” receiver”, for the purposes of the law.

          • Brent

            Personally I disagree that “machine guns” are any more qualified to be prohibited than a muzzle loader. I would argue that the specific intent of the 2A was to explicitly prevent military grade arms from being prohibited.

          • And that’s a perfectly legitimate philosophical position to hold (and one I personally agree with).

            It is also irrelevant to why I said. That’s why I said, “If”. Until the courts accept that argument, we change the Constitution to be more explicit (a mere statute wouldn’t provide enough support, as it could just be elimnated by a later legislature), or we actually overthrow the government and hit ” Restart”, the actual legal environment we live in and that is enforced is that *some* regulation of firearm configuration is (Note that SCOTUS has not definitively said that our position is wrong – only that some restrictions are “presumptively” Constitutionally permissable, and they haven’t bothered to closely examine them to challenge that presumption.)

          • Brent

            I follow you now. I read it first as that being *your* position.

          • retrocon

            One justice away from a very different SCOTUS.

            Anyone who owns a firearm and doesn’t vote for the republican, whoever that might be, will be responsible for the start of the revolution, since the minute they nullify our second amendment right, I will join in on the armed march on the Capitol.

          • Mike Crews

            Yes i totally agree the gooberment constantly over steps. Lets not forget who they work for who put them in office WE THE PEOPLE. the 2A is clear cut “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” In that respect the ATF regulating and Taxing parts of guns should be illegal. After all criminals dont go to the store and buy guns they steal them and do not respect any laws. And lets look at what the ATF have tried to do by banning Armor piercing 223 and 556 by trying to ban AR style guns and States banning capacity. If i had a fund i would SUE SUE SUE. we have the NRA but high salaries are more important to them then actually fighting the fight in most cases. New York, Colorado, California have all overstepped 2A and as far as i am concerned are not a part of the US anymore and funding should be immediately pulled from the states as well as the security of statehood.

          • retrocon

            Only until the SCOTUS decides otherwise. We are one justice away from a “national guard” interpretation of the second amendment, and loss of protections for our most important individual right. ATF SWAT teams will be at our doors in 5 years if the right justice isn’t appointed and confirmed.

          • Mike Crews

            That’s why it is so important to not Back Hillery or Bernie in office I would love to see Trump get elected but he wants to do to much. They would rather have crooked lawyer politician puppets in office keeping with the status quo. I am a firm believer that if Trump gets elected there will be a small rough patch then a huge financial gain. He will bring us back to the super power we once were while changing the entire system that is oh so broken. It’s just like what Ron Paul wanted to do but with the huge hammer of wall street style business behind it.

          • retrocon

            You hit a good point. All these regulations are not law, they are interpretations by a unelected officials. Sadly, congress has abdicated it’s responsibility and turned our lives over to career bureaucrats.

            We need a constitutional amendment that requires that any regulation concerning felony offenses, or incurring costs in excess of 1% of any revenue stream must be codified in law, voted on by our legislators.

            We have become a society of regulation without representation.

          • MichaelZWilliamson

            That assumes we’re the ones on the Jury, not Gramma Jones and Billy Store Clerk, who do what the nice expert from the government says.

          • M

            You kinda went on a tangent there and didn’t answer my question…. did he have full auto parts in there or not, regardless of whether having the components is illegal or not.

            My point was that having the words Auto engraved on your receiver doesn’t mean you have full auto parts in there. And yes I know its legal to have full auto parts without the third hole

          • No, it isn’t a tangent. That is the actual legal issue.

            I doubt he had full auto parts installed.

            But it isn’t full auto parts that legally define a machinegun. That’s not how the law is written.

            He created what the ATF has publicly recognized as a “machinegun receiver” for nearly 50 years.

        • Lt_Scrounge

          A three position selector is easy to find. ALL of the internals for a selective fire M16 are. The internals aren’t what’s regulated, it’s the receiver that you put them in that is. You can put fully automatic parts into a semi auto receiver, as long as you leave out the part that trips the sear when the back of the bolt carrier group comes forward, you’ve got a legal semi auto AR. Drill the hole and install that last part, pin and spring and you go to jail.

          • Juanito Ibañez, TopCop1988

            “The internals aren’t what’s regulated…”

            WRONG! (see above)

      • randomswede

        “Common sense isn’t” was one of the tougher lessons to learn studying pedagogy.

        “Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.” ― George Carlin

        • Mark Are Reynolds Ⓥ

          Yea, ad the dumbest work for the ATF. After all a Glock with a vertical forgrip is an “any other weapon.” An AR 15 pistol with a SIG brace is a “pistol” and a .45 Colt with a shoulder stock is a “short barrel rifle”. Makes SENSE TO ME! But hey, my degree isn’t in gooberment mentality class.

      • Mark Are Reynolds Ⓥ

        Who should give a crap? Why is it “illegal” in the first place? How about if you shoot someone or damage someones property with it then you would have a crime rather than having a receiver with holes in it?

        • Lt_Scrounge

          While I completely agree with you, until and unless we can get the laws changed (need to change more than a few politicians in DC and a number of judges across the country to make the change) we are stuck with what the morons in DC have foisted upon us.

    • Curious_G

      I am not sure how a law can be ignorant.

      • buzzman1

        That is a good point. Only people can be ignorant and then only those people who are willing to learn.

        Laws can be downright stupid though. Look at the average gun laws in the North East States.

  • Edeco

    I’d say people are nuts wanting this or that combination of 20 or so tiny, superficial details on an AR reciever, but honestly I’d love an upper with no forward assist, dust cover or deflector, but with a carrying handle.

    • Nicholas C

      Out of curiosity why do you want a lunchbox handle on your gun? How often do you need to carry your rifle like a suit case? why not grab it by the handguard or use a sling?

      • Edeco

        I have a flat top already. I want it because it’s retro, the rest of the stuff deleted because I like things really bare-bones.

        • Nicholas C

          Why not get a rail mounted carry handle?

          • Edeco

            Ugh, not the same thing at all; then there’s a joint and extra parts :S

          • Zachary marrs

            Because that’s not retro

          • Emir Parkreiner

            Detachable carry handles seem great until your knuckle accidently hits one of the huge knobs when going for the charging handle. There’s also the fact that they use the A2 rear sight assembly, which is a problem for those of us who prefer the simplicity of the A1 assembly.

          • buzzman1

            I love the people who look high and low for the lightest possible AR and then they pile 10 lbs of useless crap on it and complain how heavy it is.

          • And, I have trouble grabbing the detachable carrying handle anyway. Because of the space the rail interface takes up, the hole for your fingers is smaller. And you can’t use a detachable carrying handle as a BUIS very easily, as the handle tkes up the rail space you would normally mount the optic on.

            Why have the extra weight and bulk, if you’re just using it for your rear BUIS? That’s why the Army buys M4s with detachable rear sights, not detachable carrying handles.

          • Because some people want a rifle that matches a particular model. Like my semiauto clone of an early M16 (M16 A-nothing, with triangular handguards, straight handguard ring, three different flash suppressor, no FA, no full fence on the mag release, no butt trap door).

            Ice go plenty of flattops – nine of which have *any* carrying handle. But I wanted one rifle that matched the layout of a Vietnam era M16.

            Just like I wanted a WWII M1 Carbine, M1 Garand, Moisin-Nagant, No4 Mk1, an early Afghan Soviet War AK74 (laminated wood), and late Cold War AKM and AKS47.

            Not every gun has to be Tacticool. Some can be just fun, and included in that are guns that match the appearance of a particular period of history.

          • Heck, if you are going to run an “irons only” AR15 for whatever reason, there’s a good argument for the carrying handle right there – if your fixed carrying handle falls off, the gun probably doesn’t work anyway. And if you’re never going to remove the rear sight to mount an optic, why have a detachable one?

          • iksnilol

            Cause it is lighter, thusly more hi speed.

      • TheNotoriousIUD

        Hey, I like carrying mine like a lunchbox.
        And mine has a for real 3 position selector.

      • Emir Parkreiner

        Why WOULDN’T you want to carry your rifle like a suitcase? Carry handles allow you to easily carry the rifle with a single hand. It’s especially useful when carrying a large backpack or if circumstances do not afford the use of a sling.

        • Paladin

          I can carry my rifle one handed just fine without a carry handle.

          • Emir Parkreiner

            So can I, but there’s no denying that a carry handle makes it easier.

          • Paladin

            You underestimate my ability to remain firmly in denial.

            For administrative carry I find it much easier to simply grip the rifle with my off hand at the crux of the magwell and forend with a thumb over the top. Doing it this way rather than the “suitcase” method means that I can tuck the stock under my arm for better control (it’s easier to carry things that don’t swing around), it keeps the muzzle pointed downwards so I don’t have to worry about sweeping others, it keeps the rifle alongside my body so it’s less likely to get caught on stuff, and it’s much faster into action since literally all I have to do for a firing grip is to bring it up to my shoulder and put my strong hand on the grip.

          • Emir Parkreiner

            It’s ironic that you mention that particular carry method as it is ideal for ARs w/ carry handles. The carry handle prevents the thumb from slipping forward and allows for significantly greater leverage. The first time I tried carrying my A1 clone like this, I was surprised by how ergonomic it was.

          • Paladin

            You don’t need to worry about your thumb slipping forwards if you’re carrying the rifle muzzle down.

          • Emir Parkreiner

            True, I forgot to take that into account.

      • Because it’s retro, which is always cooler than tactical, Nick.

      • Blake

        get a rugged optic with high mount rings on a flat side upper

      • Phil Hsueh

        The funny thing about is that when I was in the Corps we weren’t allowed to carry our M16s by the carrying handle, it had to be either slung or held by the pistol grip. Why? I have no idea since it is a carrying handle after all, I suppose its similar to the reason why were weren’t allowed to keep a pen in the little pen pocket on BDUs.

  • DIR911911 .

    “I’ll just talk with the ATF , they seem like nice enough guys. they’ll understand” . . . said no one ever

    • SirOliverHumperdink

      David Koresh once asked them for advice on a drop in sear aka ‘lightning link’ in 1993. I forget how that turned out.

      • James

        He also molested children so I’d say he got what he deserved. It’s all the other people that got killed that saddens me.

        • georgeIIII

          So the blatantly dumb assed and haphazard tactics of the government were just a Boo Boo?

          • Robert Michael Jr Cottell

            They always are….

        • Spartacus Khan

          He never got his day in court, so we’ll never really know wtf

        • Trent DeRoc

          Molested or not, those children should have been cared for by child protective services, not immolated by the FBI & ATF.

          • buzzman1

            Why Child protective services allow kids to be cared for that are worse than these idiots.

        • Matt

          There was never any proof of that and all of the witnesses are dead as they were inside the compound when it burned.

          • Actually, some witnesses survived, and everyone of the Branch Dravidians charged was aquitted. And then got a huge settlement from the US government.

            The molestation accusations have no legal merit, just like the meth production accusations the ATF used to justify military assistance were found to be utterly unfounded.

            And since when is the ATF the lead agnecy on a child welfare case where there is *no* federal jurisdiction because it is solely an intrastate case? Because ATF was the lead agency, right up until their failed raid (which had the Branch Dravidians *calling 911 for help*… not exactly the normal behavior of an outlaw gang being raise by cops) thrust the FBI into the lead because ATF had proven incapable.

            Right up until that utterly botched (and probably unannounced even after the shooting started), they could have arrested David Koresh at their leisure, where he had no cover, no allies, and was almost certainly wholly unarmed. Because the creepy weirdo used to jog to McDonald’s for breakfast *every single day*, obsessively arriving at the *same exact time*. And the sheriff informed the feds of this behavior and said that was the best place and time to arrest him (alone, out in the open, unarmed, and at an utterly predicable time and place).

            Heck, if they had just followed the advice of the FBI forensic psychologist after the siege started, they probably would have gotten a peaceful surrender eventually. Instead, they did exactly what their own expert told them would result in massive loss of life by feeding into Koresh’s paranoia and exactly duplicating his apocalyptic prophesies of how the armies of the Devil would besiege the faithful at the end of time. (Because, remember, we are talking about a nutjob who led a *Doomsday cult* that literally believed they would be the only ones fighting on the side of God in the Final Conflict, so surrounding them with military equipment and openly besieging them fed directly into the prophesies.) But, a peaceful resolution would have taken more time, and “dynamic solutions” look cool, especially to Congressional budgetary committees. (That’s not a political speculation – that’s what the FBI’s own experts in this stated was the failure.)

            The Waco siege was *entirely* about ATF thinking Koresh had untaxed NFA items (and they never found any). Everything else the government threw out later (including the lies they told other parts of the Executive Branch to get coordination) was CYA justification to cover their cowboy incompetence.

          • Mark Are Reynolds Ⓥ

            And you call him a “creepy weirdo” why? Did you know him personally? Have a sit down talk with him?

          • I call him a creepy weirdo based on what he said on video and his own writings. Dude was out there where the busses don’t run.

            When a man is crystal clear in what he believes, and publicly says it, especially in writing or on camera, it is easy to judge their weirdness from their own words.

            Not that neither “creepy” nor “weird” is a crime, nor did I imply it was. But I’m not going to pretend he was perfectly sane and rational, either.

          • Mark Are Reynolds Ⓥ

            Yes, that may be true IF and is a BIG IF the video wasn’t edited for political purposes to make it SEEM like he was a weirdo that it was all right to attack and murder. But hey, THEY would never do that would they? As for his writings? What writings? As for perfectly sane and rational…who makes that determination and what is the “norm” set by these days?

          • Im.talking about videos made by his followers, at his direction, for distribution to his followers and possible recruits.

            When a guy openly says, “This is what I believe and why you should follow me!”, I feel quite comfortable evaluating him based on them.

            Likewise, Koresh put out writings for the same purposes. Just like any other evnagilizing preacher trying to actively recruit believers.

            Pretending these are ” politically edited” to make him look bad is directly akin to insisting The Watchtower doesn’t reflect the beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses, or the 700 Club doesn’t reflect the stated beleifs of Pat Robertson, or Catholic publications and videos made under Chruch authority don’t reflect the beliefs of the Catholic Church. (Admittedly, Pat and the Vatican have got better production values, because they have more money to work with. 😉 )

          • Mike Lashewitz

            Bill Clinton <— there is a creepy Wierdo…

          • cageordie

            At least the FBI got the coverup right.

          • Bart Noir

            Oh look, a comment actually concerning the subject.

            That is the most well used/abused AR I have ever seen. He would have been smarter to just leave it intact and start some sort of “and it still runs” thread. Or whatever they do on Facebook.

        • Brian Diffenderfer

          he molested children.. and so the Government came in and killed the children to stop them from being molested…

          • buzzman1

            No he was accused of molesting children and there was not proof. I could accuse you of molesting children but would that make it true?

            Koresh was a nutbag and so was all of the people that followed him. The Clintons screwed that whole thing up and doing a combat assault on the compound was completely illegal. Bringing in Military personnel and equipment to assualt the compound was also blatantly illegal.

          • Shootist

            Illegal? Hardly. The Clinton’s do what they want, any laws are for the little people and most Republicans.

          • carlcasino

            Sad but truer words were never written.

          • Brian Diffenderfer

            I know this, they were killed because they had a large cache of weapons, nothing more, nothing less

          • buzzman1

            Brian It was a political statement to show people they would go after anyone at any time. So you consider each man legally owning one rifle as a large arms cache? The local cops say the same thing when they find a guy legally owns a rifle and a shotgun. They were assaulted by gov’t agents with automatic weapons without provocation. They didnt even knock on the door to serve a warrant.

          • Mike Crews

            HMmm something comes into mind. “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” well I would say they infringed the hell out of it.

          • Brian Diffenderfer

            a large-cache of weapons was what the ATF and those present said, Im not saying I justify them going after people with guns

          • Wyatt Earp

            They were killed because they annoyed the FBI, the FBI lied to Janet Reno about the children and because, like every other government agency, the FBI are massively incompetent.

          • cageordie

            You really don’t have to look past the incompetence. Blundering up on the roof to try to break in? Pathetic. Yes they bravely died bravely for their country bravely doing a stupid thing. That is no way to storm a building.

          • John Wisch

            That’s bullshit, they were killed because they didn’t have a big enough cache of weapons.
            They didn’t think that they needed anti tank rounds or mines, or RPG’s
            It was the Cults fault because they didn’t think big enough or prepare hard enough.
            At least they could have built tank traps.
            Oh yeah, they never thought that they would be assaulted with tanks. My bad.

          • Mark Are Reynolds Ⓥ

            If you accuse him it probably would be true.

          • Frank Castle

            Brigham Young was also considered a ‘nutbag’, but we now fully accept the LDS Church as legitimate. That guy who was probed by Aliens and started ‘Scientology’ in 1954. Now, if you want to talk about that Cult that stated back in 1400 and is now fully embraced by Our Dear Leader & all the Mohammad apologists, we can have a discussion.

          • buzzman1

            I loved the part of Davids religion where it was forbidden for husbands in his group to have sex with their wives. Only he was allowed to have sex with the woman in the group.

            As far as cults go his definitely wasnt the worst.

          • Cobranut

            For him, at least. LOL

          • Jenny Everywhere

            If Hubbard had been probed by aliens, at least he’d have an excuse, but he was just a bad SF writer who thought it’d be neat to make a religion. So he hadn’t been probed by aliens, he just MADE IT ALL UP.

          • Frank Castle

            And yet it holds a block of real estate on west 43rd street in Manhattan. Seems it’s an “accepted’ religion with a ‘tax exempt’ status granted by the IRS. Now if they were conservative, Lois Learner would have put a stop to them.

          • cageordie

            Being accepted as a tax free religion really has nothing to do with the source of a particular insanity. Mormons: the third book of the bible, written in a language that only the in crowd can read, found in a back yard in NY, requires the followers to wear magic underwear and when the men die they all get lots of women? Really? Really??

          • MIstwalker

            They also get a planet, and turn into a god.

          • cageordie

            Sounds reasonable to me! It is a very very large universe. (They really believe this? Bwahahahahaha!)

          • Frank Castle

            So your problem is: Government being involved with Religion? What about that informal Jefferson letter to the Connecticut Church? Oh how foolish you are.

          • cageordie

            LOL! That is such a pathetic straw man. No, not what I said, is that really what you think I said or are you that guileless? I said that LDS, like Scientology, is based on the invention of a dishonest person. Accepting a dishonestly created church as a tax exempt religion is more about incompetence than anything else.

          • Frank Castle

            And the Secular Religion of Government, where adherence is mandatory with avoidance severely punished is your faith?

          • cageordie

            Not that either. You so wish to cast other people in the mold of your own limitations don’t you? Your fundamental problem is that you see faith as a strength. I don’t have unreasoned faith in anything, it is the source of delusion and the corner stone of dishonesty. I believe what you can prove. Amusingly you are going to see that as a weakness. You are doomed to be a follower.

          • Frank Castle

            I have complete faith in Man’s inhumanity towards his fellow Man. You should have attended Philosophy class a few more times. I can’t wait around for you to catch up.

          • cageordie

            Simple ad hominem. Worthless as an argument. Try harder.

          • Frank Castle

            So it’s an argument you’re looking for? OK. pick a viable topic since it seems to you that you’re in control.

          • cageordie

            You seem to need to tell me what I am thinking, to cast me in some mold you can attack. It is quite amusing to watch. You are used to being considered clever among your peers, aren’t you?

          • Frank Castle

            What peers? When being chased by a hungry Grizzly Bear, I don’t have to outrun the Bear, I just have to outrun you.

          • rick0857

            You should maybe read that letter you speak of because based on what you wrote you have NO IDEA what it was about!

          • Frank Castle

            Lets see, was that the one where he informally tells the Connecticut Baptist Church in Danbery that he would not move against the state established religion on their behalf?

          • Aries144

            Please tell me more about my religion. Where’d you get that crap, a Watchtower pamphlet?

          • CountryBoy

            Which part did he make up, the probing or the aliens?

          • MIstwalker

            How about the slightly earlier cult of Christianity, that expanded to one of the most violent religions in world history? Good Christian folk have killed way more people over the years than the Muslims, if you know your history.

            By the way, Scientology is widely regarded as a criminal organization and cult. It was responsible for the largest infiltration of government offices in United States history (to destroy documents relating to the church), and Hubbard spent the rest of his days living on a ship in international waters to avoid spending it in prison as a result. The only reason it still exists is that it’s illegal to ban a belief system, no matter how vile and criminal. We can only prosecute individuals who have committed a crime.

          • Frank Castle

            And USAG Janet Reno facilitated the murder of David Koresh for what reason? Playing with children? May I remind you of the Dancing Boys of the Afghan War Lords? Who turned a blind eye for the sake of the mission? Ask Lance Cpl. Gregory Buckley Jr. what he would do to a Muslim child abuser, and his prosecution for that act by our Military. But you think Islam didn’t bring Bacha Bazi to the USA. Oh how foolish you are.

          • Jamie

            You really need to do due diligence on your statement. Research the muslim conquests of Europe, and India, not to mention North Africa. After you’ve done that you may be a little better informed.

          • Sick and Tired in Ohio

            Tell me more about this ‘infiltration.’

          • Guys how did we go from an AR discussion to religion. By the way politics we don’t talk about here and religion is a close second.
            Get back on topic.

          • Billca

            Correction: Islam started with Mohammed around 570 AD.

          • Frank Castle

            The current Islamic year is 1437 AH

          • Billca

            I forget… is 1437 AH still classified as “the dark ages?”

          • Frank Castle

            Didn’t some Italian convince Queen Isabella to finance his folly to the New World just a few years later? Not that the Norsemen didn’t actually land here a few hundred years prior.

          • George Dean

            ” most historians believe that Islam originated in Mecca and Medina at the start of the 7th century.” Wiki

          • carlcasino

            I’m all in but let’s call Islam what it is, A THEOCRACY. Simple definition , A Government by a Religious group and I question the religious part.

          • Frank Castle

            One better: A Homicidal CULT.
            I miss the days where a Cult lived in the jungle and drank Kool-Aid or killed themselves en masse to get a ride on a spaceship.

          • Shocked_and_Amazed✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You might, I don’t

          • Frank Castle

            I mis-spoke. The LDS is accepted as a governmentally “approved” religion.

          • Cuda

            but it’s a CLinton, who cares, they have teflon for blood look at hildibeast!

          • buzzman1

            No argument there. We didnt lose anyone in Libya after all and iff we did what does it matter now. Hate the clintons.

          • Cliff Spirit

            But isn’t that the Clinton way? Commit national suicide, vote Hillary.

          • Mark Are Reynolds Ⓥ

            Exactly! Like the way they shoot people who are suicidal.

        • Mark Are Reynolds Ⓥ

          And you know that he did that HOW? Oh, because the non lying media and gooberment told you? That should settle it. They NEVER would tell you lies. Yea…

        • Wyatt Earp

          Hate to break it to you…

          The raid had nothing to do with “molesting” children. They raided the place because they thought there were illegal firearms. The ATF screwed it up, as usual.

          The FBI got tired of waiting around, so they told Janet Reno that there was molestation going on in the buildings to justify the FBI going ahead with an operational plan that murdered the ‘inhabitants.’ Rescuing children was never part of the operational plan, in fact, other than the lies told an incredibly gullible Janet Reno, children weren’t even mentioned.

          There never was a formal accusation, a trial, anything.

          As a rule, the constitution frowns on the state violently murdering people without due process. Especially when you murder everyone else in the room, too.

          • retrocon

            What I don’t understand is why a few people here think Reno was lied to? No believe that she wanted, nah insisted, that the ATF and FBI make an example of them. The FBI and ATF do not have political agendas that would have driven this. Big government liberal politicians, on the other hand, have incentive to exercise power this way.

        • Pauly_Pants

          That was the story by the people who killed everyone and left nobody to confirm or deny their story.

        • Bradley Jones

          that was investigated and no evidence was found to support it according to the texas authorities, that;s
          what the government said to justify what they did

        • Doktor Jeep

          Ah the “they said he molested children so therefore everything they did to him is justified case closed”.
          Your mentality is the reason why the feds know that all they need to do to “take someone out” is accuse them of any kind of perversion towards kids and everybody will abandon that person to die – and in pretty much the same way we saw in Waco.
          There’s a reason why we call kiddy porn “digital drop gun” and computer forensics systems will encrypt information incoming so that neither side can tamper with it. Guess which side created such a pattern of “oh look, we came in with a warrant for ‘…’ but we found this kiddy porn on the computer a month later”. Hint: they had badges.

        • John

          The Catholic church also had accused molesters, which was covered up by the LEADERS of the church…including a former Pope.
          I guess it all depends on what ‘cult’ your in before they send in the tanks…

      • CountryBoy

        He got burned over the deal, as I recall.

    • sage419

      With the notable exception of a few Mexican drug lords…

      • Mark Are Reynolds Ⓥ

        Who the ATF makes sure gets illegal weapons.

  • TheNotoriousIUD

    I dont get this.
    The gun which is not a machine gun has an “auto” position and the guy drilled a 3rd hole and stamped “semi” under it…?

    • Nicholas C

      It is a lower that has the full auto markings. It already had “semi” but to make it extra cool, he drilled a hole to mimic to look of having a third pin hole.

      • TheNotoriousIUD

        Looking at this gives me a headache.

        • Sianmink

          the ridiculousness of NFA and firearm import law gives me a headache.

          • TheNotoriousIUD


    • Scott P

      It is simple. You can’t have a hole to mount a pin that COULD be modified to be a machinegun EVEN IF the receiver itself is only made to be semi-auto.

  • Sam


  • Michael Meador

    Yes and no… If the sear pin hole is the correct size or smaller, or if it’s in the proper location, yes, it’s a machine gun. If the inside of the trigger well has been milled out along with that, yes, it’s a machine gun. However, if the pin hole is not in the proper location and is oversized, it is NOT a machine gun. Colt manufactured many A2 Sporters with this exact configuration for many years. However, another point is the welded up MP5 clone semi’s that have a paddle mag release. I see those all the time with the pin hole located properly and welded up to mimic an MP5 pinned profile. So, it totally depends on the exact location of the hole and such. Given the photograph, it appears that the pin hole is not in the correct spot. It is far too deep into the trigger well. And for reference, I am a 07/02 SOT.

    • JSmath

      I appreciate you weighing in on this with specifics, but Michael, let’s be completely honest: If people started adding oversized sear pin holes in mass, we know damn well the ATF would change their mind and determination on how they interpret the rule.

      • Michael Meador

        If it’s oversized, it cannot support an auto sear. It’s no different than cutting out the sear hole on an HK trigger pack conversion. If the hole is in the wrong place, even off as little as 1/16 of an inch, it cannot properly support an auto sear assembly in operation. It’s not a matter of the ATF making a determination on it really. They would have no grounds for it. The proper placement and size of the hole is critical for the operation of the auto sear. Like I said, Colt has made tens of thousands of AR’s with this exact configuration… it’s not an issue.

        • mandaloin

          “They would have no grounds for it”
          Like that’s ever stopped them before.

        • John

          TFB brings up the example of the Galil ACE, how would you explain that? Is that really a third pin hole (i.e. military examples use that hole for a sear pin) or is that some manufacturing anomaly?

          • Michael Meador

            The Galil ACE had the pin hole located in the proper location. That is the issue.

    • Mark Are Reynolds Ⓥ

      So am I wrong or does the receiver have to be milled to accept the auto sear? Guys on here are claiming that current semi receivers are being made wide enough in that area to accept a sear with just a hole being added.

      • Michael Meador

        A few are close but require some finish milling. ATF has several conflicting interpretations on the internal milling issue. I recommend against it. However, given a recent letter I got from ATF, it might be a moot point very shortly anyway. We shall see though.

        • Billy Jack

          Care to expand? Are they getting ready to try to deal with unmilled “artwork”?

  • Edeco

    Awesome! Thanks.

  • Lee Attiny

    So if its illegal to drill a hole with the intent of making your gun appear to be full-auto that obviouslys means its completely legal to hide an identical hole on a full-auto giving it the appearance of a semi-auto, correct? Sweet. On a serious note though, as much as you see people talking about the ATF of gun forums, facebook groups, etc. how many of you have ever encountered an ATF agent and had them inspect your firearm?

    • uisconfruzed

      From my experience, and with a close friend that’s a 07/02 SOT, they’ve been polite, instructional and helpful. Very few of them are like a green cop with a chip trying to make a name.
      I have called and received conflicting information from different agents on Form 4 and trusts. Do your due diligence and read their subject material and you should be fine.

  • Greg Anderson

    We call this a failure of rationale. We call this an example of ignorance. To a certain extent, it’s true. But let’s not lose sight of just how screwed up the code of laws are: We’re talking about a hole. The hole does nothing. The weapon does nothing different due to that hole. A rational person that does not have an encyclopedic understanding of firearm laws would not be able to understand why a hole on its own is considered illegal, and frankly someone wanting a non-functional hole should not be at risk of going to federal prison.

    We’ve been Stockholmed into accepting the legitimacy of an increasingly convoluted code of laws – and this goes far beyond firearms. Many of those affected by the weight of this code, those stripped of citizenship in any meaningful sense, had no intention of breaking the law or intent to harm.

    I’ll try to act surprised when this status quo gets just a little bit worse.

  • Chase

    And he never saw his dog again.

  • Geoff

    Thank God the ATF exists to keep holes from being drilled into the sides of receivers.
    Common sense tells us that only the government and violent Mexican drug cartels can be trusted with fully automatic weapons of war.
    Think of the children!

    • Mark Are Reynolds Ⓥ

      They also exist so that they can shoot 15 year old boys in the back and mothers in the head because dad cut a shot gun barrel “too short” with a hack saw.
      Seems like a good reason to murder a couple of folks to me!

      • Frank Castle

        Have you tried to cleanly cut down the barrel of a Remington Shotgun that has a Vent Rib? You’re either at 19″ or and 17 1/2″. I blame Remington/Freedom Group for the Weaver deaths. 😉

        • Mark Are Reynolds Ⓥ

          Well, one evening when I was sitting at my dinner table with RANDY WEAVER having a meal, I asked him about that and he said it was a DOUBLE barrel that he cut off right at the stock.

  • MrEllis

    Ignorance, paranoia and lobbyists insure we’ll have conversations like this. At this point it’s an idiot tax, take it from him, one less mall ninja to worry about at a public range or movie theater.

  • Anomanom

    Oh well, no intelligence test required to own a firearm, after all.

  • steveday72

    If he really wanted just the look he could’ve scribed the outline of a sear-pin hole on each side of the receiver. …Though even then, the ATF would probably declare that it’s a “mark solely for the intent to manufacture a machine gun”.

  • Man, hasn’t this guy ever heard of engraving!?

    • Twilight sparkle

      Doesn’t that count as a pin hole since it marks where to drill? I remember reading something like that about 80% receivers I would assume the same logic would apply to the third pin too.

      • That would be a tough sell, but the ATF did once rule that a shoelace was a machine gun, so you’re right. Why risk it?

        • Especially since one could request a determination *before* doing anything, and be quite specific, including a paper diagram of *where* the hole will be, and a flat plate of aluminum demonstrating the *exact* engraving you intend to do. (“I want to engrave a circle in the location shown in Enclosure 1, to a diameter of X, to a depth of 0.03″, as demonstrated in Enclosure 2, that cosmetically simulates an M16 autosear hole with pin. This is solely an external cosmetic feature, and will not facilitate the installation of full auto parts. Is this legal?”)

      • Scott P


        AK receivers sometimes have Y stamps and markings (they are more desirable and you have to move the selector to the bottom of the receiver for it to be semi-auto passing the full-auto position on a real AK) where a full-auto pin would go and no one has been busted by the ATF for those even on imported guns.

        • Twilight sparkle

          That’s there for structural purposes and it’s only on one side, the other side requires a much smaller hole. The ATF has busted companies for marking hammer and trigger holes on 80% lowers so it’s really not worth risking it on a 100% lower with a full auto sear position.

  • A bag of ferrets

    Rip his dogs

  • Edeco

    Wait, wait, maybe it’s not a full-auto-hole but a grease zerk instead 😛

  • Raven

    There is legal precedent for similar modifications being allowed. A certain AK builder (name escapes me at the moment, might be Two Rivers Arms?) silver-solders a false third rivet to AK receivers to replicate the look of a full-auto. Though those don’t modify the inside of the receiver, so…

    • Yeah, those were wholly external, and no different than a semiauto AR15 received that says “AUTO”.

  • fmike15

    The third “hole” on the Galil Ace was the pivot pin for the mag release. The ATF never said IWI had to recall them. It was gun blogs and writers who made the big deal out of it, just like the arm brace fiasco. The ATF was done with the arm brace but everyone had to keep mouthing off about it so the fed were forced to come back and make the “no shoulder contact” determination. People need to get a life and quit poking the tiger with a stick.

  • RickOAA .

    Unless he’s bring the Colt receiver block back…stupid.

  • wolfdog11

    The ATF considers the mere possession of 7 parts of the M1/M2 carbine to be a “machine gun”, even if you don’t possess a rifle/reciever……

    • That’s because those parts constitute a “machinegun conversion kit”, which is *statutorily* (not ” ATF interpretation”) a machinegun, all by itself. Since those parts are the *only* difference between a legal semiauto M1 Carbine and a selective fire M2 Carbine.

      It was a legitimate problem when the M2 Carbine parts were wholly unregulated and readily available, along with cheap M1 carbines. Take the M1 in your gun safe, slap the M2 partsfrom your sock drawer in, shoot your unregistered machinegun, then take the parts out. And it leaves no sign on the carbine that you’ve been breaking the law. An M1 Carbine can be swapped back and forth into an M2 configuration in minutes, if you have the parts. That’s *literally* the definition of a machinegun conversion kit – it allows you to convert a legal semiauto into a machinegun without requiring you to do any machining whatsoever.

  • Joe Franklin

    I guess I’m not getting why you’d want to do this anyway. Does it make you look more badass or something? It’s been my lifelong experience that true badass people look exactly like someone taking the kids to soccer practice. Till some clown tries to eff with them and they rip their arm off and beat them with it.

  • disqus_PDmXLtTxJj

    I would like to see a smart4$$ receiver with holes drilled all over it EXCEPT for where one goes for the auto sear, that would be a nice joke and a pretty light receiver.

    • Nicholas C

      That already exists. People make skeletonized lowers.

  • Mark Are Reynolds Ⓥ

    Like it should make a hill of beans difference even if it WAS a machine gun. The whole 1934 and 1968 GCA’s need to be tossed in the trash heap of illegal violations of the 2nd amendment. ATF needs to go become mail carriers.

    • Geoffry K

      The main problem is the Hughes Amendment to FOPA. That made it illegal to own any modern select fire weapon made after 1986, which of course made the $900 M16 on May 18th. turn into a $9000 M16 on May 19th. Now they cost $15K, $20K or more. I once even found a stripped M16 receiver going for $15K. No fire control parts.

      • Lou

        Actually, M-16s stayed at about a grand or less until 1990 and when Pres. Bush 1 banned imported “assault rifles” in 1989, many semi-auto military styled rifles cost MORE than the same rifle in a transferable full-auto converted before May 19, 1986. Valmet M-76 & M78 semi-auto rifles in my shop, which stopped being imported in the late 80s, were about $500 – $1,000 MORE than the Valmet M-76 & M78 full-auto transferables then. Same with Thompsons, HK 91/93/94s, UZIs, MACs, etc.. Transferable MP-5s in 1989 were between $900 – $1,200 but an HK-94 would sell for as high as $2,500+. If an owner of an MP-5 needed cash and the dealer had to pay $200 because it was registered on a Form 4, the owner might only get $600 from the dealer! The $200 Tax Stamp actually affected the price then and people didn’t want a registered gun as many thought that the government would confiscate registered machine-guns next. Heck, we were selling Marlin Model 60s with Ram-line folding stocks (which we put on) for $300 then and a model 60 was a $89 gun at K-Mart then! There was such a run on guns in 1989 that there was nothing left to sell so anything that looked cool went out the door.

  • Mark Are Reynolds Ⓥ

    Folks, anyone who has ever looked at an actual M16 will note one glaring problem with just drilling a hole in the receiver. The M16 receiver is MILLED to accept the auto sear. That’s right. You can’t just drop one in with a pin and swap a few parts in a “few minutes” . First you would have to take the receiver and mill it so that the auto sear could fit, then put all the parts in and gee…I bet that would take what..maybe an HOUR or so? So any stinking “rule” that calls an AR 15 a machine gun with just a hole in the receiver is BULL CRAP. Plain and simple.

    • Nicholas C

      And yet ATF had IWI recall their semi auto Galil ACEs with a third hole. Even though they too could not accept a full auto sear.

      • Mark Are Reynolds Ⓥ

        Just goes to show you how arbitrary the rules are with ATF. There should be at least an attempt to make it full auto before it violated their rules. But hey, common sense isn’t an ATF quality.
        They are just “doing their job” Ask Herb Byerly or Michael Springer about their job. How they did a sting on Randy Weaver and because he wouldn’t become a snitch for them they made sure he paid for it.

  • Mike Lashewitz

    This guy probably also has 2 inch tires on a F250. Vanity plates and a CB whip.

  • Bert OConnor

    My response is, go ahead, poke the ATF “bear”, I dare ya, no, I double dog dare ya!

  • dobervol

    None of this has anything to do with the Koresh situation, which caused this article thread to run off the rails, but it really goes to the heart of the matter. The problem ole Gun Addiction has here is that he is making the assumption that the ATF cares about what makes sense. The regs are what the regs are, and you have to memorize them and abide by them if you want to play legally, without regard to whether they make sense or not. Ever been asked why a 16″ barrel on a rifle? And why 18″ on a shotgun? Why do they call it a silencer if it’s not silent and it’s really a suppressor? Why does the NFA call a silencer/suppressor a “firearm” when it’s really a firearm accessory? Why does putting a vertical grip on a pistol, for Pete’s sake, make it an AOW? Why would less accurate and easier to conceal AK and AR pistols be legal, while an SBR is not (without a stamp)? And on and on we could go. But their agents have to enforce the laws, too, whether they agree with them or not (and some will admit some of them are dumb, but that doesn’t change what they are). Find out if it’s legal and comply; don’t ask yourself if it makes sense and act accordingly. That’s a sure recipe for getting in trouble.

  • RICH


  • Bob

    interesting how this got turned into a discussion of Waco, TX

  • David

    I’ve seen some people doing retro clones have a circle engraved where the third pin would be, but actually drilling a hole there? That just seems like you are asking for trouble.

    • jeff

      I have read somewhere that the atf says knowing exactly where the hole goes is constructive intent

  • Geoffry K

    Why bother with the hole?
    Machine yourself a DIAS* which is also illegal if you want a MG.
    No need to mill anything, they fit the AR-15 lower as is.
    DON”T DO IT.
    *DIAS – Drop In Auto Sear.
    Google it.
    But then you need a 3 position safety selector.

  • Core

    If it’s law, don’t break it. But honestly I feel sorry for the BATFE that they are required to enforce laws made by uneducated people that have absolutely no effect at reducing crime and increasing public safety.

  • Dillon B

    Every gun law is an infringement.

    • jeff

      But until we can get them repealed(basically never) you have to follow them. Unless you are a criminal, which these laws are made to stop from doing these cool things. Wait, criminals do not care about laws.

    • Juanito Ibañez, TopCop1988

      The unconstitutionally-held SCOTUS hearing in the case “The United States of America versus Jack Miller and Frank Layton” (307 U.S. 174, 1939) is the “linchpin” of all federal gun control laws.

      Why in the world no one has ever challenged the constitutionality of that hearing – where neither the defendants nor their legal representative (lawyer) were present (‘trial in absentia’) – is beyond me!


      “Hopt v. People of the Territory of Utah”
      110 U.S. 574 (4 S.Ct. 202, 28 L.Ed. 262)
      Decided: March 3, 1884

  • Eric Blatter

    Interesting how a discussion regarding questionable modifications to a firearms receiver can quickly devolve into a discussion of religion. It seems that is one of the major problems in modern society. A short attention span and a minimum ability to focus on a single subject.

  • Blue Centurion

    Boy did this comment section go south…………Koresh, Mormans, L.Ron Hubbard all drilling holes in their AR’s…….I think…..

  • English

    I didn’t go to school, so could someone tell me if welding a piece of steel to a piece of aluminium is even possible?

  • Dougboffl

    So how does drilling a single hole make it tax stamp regulated full auto? I know you can put an entire dummy full auto selector kit on an M1A-type and, because it is not functional, it is okay (or so the story goes). So why would an empty hole kick an AR-15-type into regulation? I didn’t think an AR-15-type can be full auto without additional re-working at the rear of the trigger pocket and full auto sear etc…

  • Andy Leach

    Actually, I’ve been told by FFL/SOT’s AND Law Enforcement that this sort of thing is fine.

  • Don1974

    Why does his gun look like it got dragged behind his car for a couple hundred miles?

  • supercobra

    Tattle tales and rats.We just gotta have em.

    • Ebby123

      For real! At least redact his account name from the article! I mean WTF guys?

  • whamprod

    When you try to warn someone that they will be hurt if they step off the cliff, and they poopoo your warning and start to step forward, do you have a moral obligation to grab their arm before they do some irreparable damage to themselves? Or….. do you get your cellphone out and start taking pictures??

    • really.really!really?

      In a case of messing wit da man for no good reason…get the phone out.

  • randomswede

    Certainly, better still to be mature and not act like someone that you aren’t that has something you don’t.
    But then I’ve never been much for showing off so I may just not “get it”. : )

  • Fred Lin

    Guys…..this rifle just an airsoft, no body notice it? XD

    It’s a MEGA ARMS licensed gas blow-back airsoft gun made by Taiwanese brand “Yih Kai (KWA)”,

    notice the hex screw mounted mag release bottom, extra slim forward assist round patterns, and a very swallow castle nut locking notches,

    This guy just kidding on everyone….
    Here is the KWA MEGA AR15 photo find from google↓

  • John

    QUOTE “Rationale and ignorance is not something the ATF takes kindly.”

    I get that the ‘ignorant’ guy drilled a useless hole, (yeah I don’t see the point either), but we’re talking about the ATF…the same people that authorized guns to criminals in Mexico.
    The same people that filp flopped on AR pistols…”Ok, they are legal if you don’t put them up to your shoulder”…
    Do I need to go on?
    So if your comparing “Rationale and ignorance” I think the ATF is the one coming up short…

  • Ebby123

    I think you could have made the point without sharing his username… but hey, snitches gonna snitch.

    Hope your moment of basking in the glow of your imagined moral superiority was worth it.

    • Dennis Cote

      It was all worth it because you made it so.

  • Fred Lin

    Guys…..this rifle just an airsoft actually,

    It’s a MEGA ARMS licensed gas blow-back airsoft gun made by Taiwanese brand “Yih Kai (KWA)”

    notice the hex screw mounted on mag release bottom, the extra slim forward assist round patterns, and a very swallow castle nut locking notches.

    This guy just kidding on everyone….

    Here is the KWA MEGA AR15 photo find from google↓

    • Sebastian Shen

      Agree, it’s an airsoft. And I bet there’s no orange tip on that one lol.

  • Juanito Ibañez, TopCop1988

    As a former ATF-licensed NFA arms manufacturer, I can tell you that the hole pictured is NOT in the correct location for the full-auto sear to be installed and function.

  • Matheus Grunt

    I am often amazed, or actually disturbed, at just how scared the so
    called “gun supporters” are when they see anything that resembles other
    than semi-auto/bolt-action, etc, posted online by someone. I’m
    frightened at how easily scared you all are of this illegitimate govt’s
    dictates that VIOLATE the 2nd Amendment. A REAL man of the weapon would
    never obey much less advocate obedience to fake laws that violate so
    many legitimate (constitutionally protected) rights & it’s insane.

    What’s the WORST that can happen even IF you posted a picture of let’s
    say all your weapons that you modded to break all of the unjust rules
    made by a rogue govt & it’s rogue agencies that don’t even exist
    under the Constitution? Jail time? Prison? SWAT coming for you? Please.
    A real weapons guy knows weapons are more than just target shooting, the 2nd Amendment, it’s about us being able to resist & use just violence against a govt that violates those rights. So WHY again are you so afraid of the ATF? Or the cops? We have the power & the right to remove them but you know, we’re in the boat we’re in because we’re full of wusses.

    Even IF it were to happen to that person, IF you were a true weapons man,
    which would mean you’d have to be a patriot of the only kind, like our
    forefathers & colonial brethren who fought against these SAME govt
    illegalities before us, you would stage a way to fight back & accept the fact that even if you were to die in your defense of what’s right
    & just, at least you backed up what you said. Most of you are fakes
    & even bigger wusses.

    • Nicholas C

      That is not how that works. Sure in theory you would be a martyr. But you will become a felon. And guess what? You can never legally possess a firearm for the rest of your life.

  • Zebra Dun

    Drilled and welded on his rifle.
    That said it all.

  • His ignorance is mind blowing.

  • Mc Cain

    It never ceases to amaze me what can be done by Bubba to his firearm.

    “Hold my beer a minute. Watch this guys!”