Breaking: Devil Dog Arms Founder Admits Stolen Valor

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Devil Dog Arms was founded in September of 2010 with a company image depicting the snarling bulldog that is the United States Marine Corps Devil Dog and the slogan “If you’re looking for average, they just aren’t it!” Now, six years later, company co-founder and CEO Joe Lucania has admitted to stolen valor. The following statement was released by Lucania through Devil Dog Arms’ Facebook page on April 10th:

“I am making this statement to express my deepest regret and to apologize for the damage, hurt and disrespect to the military community, industry partners and individuals. I am not and was not a marine, did not serve and do not have a DD214. I have no excuse for my actions and realize there is nothing I can say or do to make this right.

I have no more involvement in any capacity with Devil Dog Arms.

With Sincere Apology,

Joe Lucania.” (All capitalization his own.)

Lucania built Devil Dog Arms based on a foundation of his USMC service as a sniper, which is apparently a lie.

The Stolen Valor Act as it stood under former President George W. Bush was significantly altered in 2013. To see the full context of H.R. 258 Stolen Valor Act of 2013 which is the law as it stands today, click here.

Oh and Joe, we always capitalize “Marine”…

*As it stands right now there has been no official statement regarding the future of Devil Dog Arms.

DDAscreenshot

Update:David Janus marketing manager at DDA is reporting on Facebook that all employees have been fired (including himself) and the doors closed at DDA. We hope to learn more as the day progresses.



katie.ainsworth

Katie is an avid shooter, hunter, military journalist, and Southern girl. Firearms are her passion whether at the range or on a spot-and-stalk after a big buck. She’s a staff writer at The Firearm Blog and writes about guns, hunting, and the military for various publications both online and in print such as Outdoor Life, Handguns, and Shooting Illustrated. Shoot her a message at ainsworth.kat@usa.com


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  • TheMaskedMan

    Douche.

  • Edeco

    Aw man, people go nuts over this kind of thing. Epic fart-in-church! Hey there’s no way the facebook page was hacked is there?

    • Anything is possible I guess but I seriously doubt it.

      • jng1226

        That is truly a sad post. Hope they all bounce back soon and in better positions than with this fraudster.

        • It is sad one man’s lies and questionable dealings causing people to be out of work and stressing their families for who knows how long.

    • Katie A

      Unfortunately, not this time. I waited to go forward on this until I had confirmation from sources outside the social media post.

      • Edeco

        Ah, OK. What a villain, I’ve heard of it being done for charity type fraud, but never associated with a multi-employee, brick and mortar business.

        • Katie A

          Stolen valor is something I’ve had the displeasure of covering quite a few times for military publications, and I’ve actually seen it tied to firearms industry businesses before. Thus far I’m unaware of any large companies involved, mostly smaller start-ups, it seems. And for anyone who cannot see how a fake can fool veterans for years on end? It’s not only possible, I’ve personally seen it work for over a decade prior to the person being outed.

          • I just added an update on the post from David Janus now former marketing manager at DDA.

          • Evan

            Most fakes are pretty obvious. Usually they have no idea of what they’re talking about whatsoever, they don’t know things like ranks or units or basic military lingo, and they do know ridiculous “facts” like how the M16 and AK47 take the same bullets (I’ve actually heard that one from a self-proclaimed Vietnam vet). I remember reading about some “general” who was actually a former PFC in the Marine Corps times about 10 years ago, but in general it’s very hard to fake at the level where other vets will believe it.

          • Katie A

            In my experience the guys who fool other vets are typically actually vets, just in a lower rank or different service than claimed. That way they know enough to get by. I do find it interesting Lucania never served and still pulled this off for some time.

          • Kahless

            It’s because he’s such a good bs’er. I knew him personally.

          • Kivaari

            I heard more gun BS from fellow service members than the public at large. I carried AK and 7.62 NATO rounds to show them how wrong they are. A popular statement was the Soviets copied the 7.62 NATO round to make their belt fed machineguns and AKs so they could use our ammo. Even though the Russian 7.62x54mm is from 1891, they still didn’t get it.

          • Hell, I heard that from guys actually in uniform.

            I enjoyed pointing out that I owned an SKS, collected military cartridges, and would be happy to show them a 7.62x39mm next to a 7.62x51mm next to a 7.62x54mmR.

            It was a little harder to convince the “5.45mm was developed so Russians could use captured 5.56 ammo” crowd, as 5.45x39mm ammo just wasn’t readily available.

          • Hillary “Screech” Clinton

            “they do know ridiculous “facts” like how the M16 and AK47 take the same bullets”….

            “take the same bullets”? Ha!

            Busted, junior. Even I know better!

            You are NO Marine.

          • iksnilol

            You can put 5.56 in a 7.62×39 AK and get it to fire… I don’t know why in the name of all that is good you’d do that.

            Also risk of kabooms and all.

  • DIR911911 .

    says he’s no longer associated . . . uses their media to release statement

    • Former Employee

      Yes, what better place to release the i’m leaving statement but the company page.

  • Jambo

    Kind of a bummer that all the employees have lost their jobs over one man’s lie.

    • Art Nickel

      They are not closed.
      Check their website…

      • Shocked_and_Amazed✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

        Just because a website is up, doesn’t mean that the company is in business

      • Former employee

        I was a sales rep and sponsored shooter. I can tell you the company has gone out of business. A website still being up just means nobody stopped to take it down after being fired when the doors closed

  • Evan

    Guy founds a company making ridiculous accessories that make ARs worse on the false predicate that he’s a Marine, gets caught, and loses everything. Good. Any Marine who’s been in the Corps for more than 10 minutes can tell you that we all hate the term “Devil Dog” anyway.

    • Devil_Doc

      Really? I never found that to be the case…

      • Evan

        It’s generally only used by SNCOs who are preparing to yell at you for violating some rule you didn’t know existed. “C’mere debbadog” followed by a rant about what a terrible person you are for wearing something other than dog tags around your neck or something equally trivial.

        • Devil_Doc

          Bro. You have some serious bitterness, don’t you? Did you wash out or something?

          • Kivaari

            He was likely washed out in the first week. One thing the USMC is known for is its proud traditions.

          • Evan

            You know literally nothing about the Corps. Shut up already.

          • Squirreltakular

            You’re being really disrespectful, debbadog.

          • Evan

            Where do you see bitterness? I’m stating a basic fact about the military. A basically universal experience is getting yelled at for petty stuff. You have to learn to take it in stride, and laugh about it. There’s a big difference between that and being bitter.

          • Kivaari

            Yelled at for disrespecting your uniform and the Corp.

          • Evan

            Yeah, usually yelled at for being field expedient. You don’t wear black socks in the field because they end up messing your feet up. You combat roll your sleeves to keep them out of the way. You often forgo chevrons because the flak jacket presses the backs into your collarbone. There is a place for that snap pop nonsense in garrison. There is no place for it in a combat zone. And it’s “Corps”, not “Corp”. You don’t even seem to know the proper name for the organization you claim to be an expert on to the point where you’re arguing about what it’s like with one of its members.

    • Kivaari

      Actually the Marines I know love it. It was the Germans in WW1 that applied that name to our vicious dogs (devil dogs) they faced in combat. If it was so bad, I wonder why they still use a bulldog as a mascot. Like the Armies “Cotton Bailers” and the “Bastards”. The names were earned in combat, and no one runs from them.

      • Evan

        You clearly don’t know many Marines. And your origin story of the term is slightly wrong, it was that a captured German after the battle of Bellau Wood supposedly said that the Marines fought like “devil dogs”, or “Teufelhunder” which is incorrect German. It is a term used almost exclusively by Staff NCOs when yelling at junior Marines for petty violations of minor rules, like having your hands in your pockets. As such, it is a widely hated term.

        • Kivaari

          So I was wrong when I said Germans in WW1 applied that name to our Marines. The Marines I know are from (were) WW2, Korea, Vietnam and later conflicts. None of them ever said what you are claiming. I guess todays Marines are too sensitive and get yelled at by an NCO that dislikes the 100 year old nick name. Well, gollie-gee-wiz. I guess the old timers I know will have to set me straight.

          • Evan

            What an incredibly ignorant comment. So basically, you’ve talked to a couple Marines before, who served a long time ago, and so that somehow makes you an expert, because reasons, and apparently Marines are sensitive because we universally dislike a silly term used to nitpick at us. Sometimes it’s better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

          • Kivaari

            I am not an expert. I find your comments to be quite off the mark. The Devil Dog label was never viewed as a negative thing. Oh, I guess you newer younger, kinder, naval infantry types use newer kinder don’t ask don’t tell type conversation to put down others. Why would Marines be hiding from such a glorious history?
            You never served in any service, did you?

        • Kivaari

          Wrong again. It was used before that battle and appeared in American media before than. Real Marines love the term.

          • Evan

            So basically anyone who has served in the Corps in the last 15 years at least is not a “real Marine”. And my origin story of the term is from what the Marine Corps teaches, not from that guy at the bar who calls himself “sarge” or whatever similarly dubious source you get your theories from.

          • DIR911911 .

            every person is going to have a different experience in any service based on the people , places , and things that make up their experience as a whole. the fact that you 2 are arguing basically that “you don’t think about it like I do” is retarded and infantile . . . you 2 really need to either get a room or get a life . . . your choice

          • Dan

            I vote for just shut up and talk about the story itself.

          • Dre

            Thanks!!!!

          • Vince

            On the topic. First let me state I never served in any active service so do not call me out on that. I was RAISED in the USN so you can call me “House Ape”, Curtain Climber”, or maybe “Ankle biter” I will take not offense. Dad was an E-9 Master Chief and on 4 of his last 5 postings he was ” Leading Chief” Or what I have been told is “Command Master Chief” in today’s Navy. The other was as Chief Master at Arms on the OLD USS Iwo Jima (helicopter carrier). He was forced into retirement with 20 (wanted 30) due to injuries sustained on the U.S.S Constellation where he was a “plank owner”. Simply put as I like to say he bled Navy Blue. So much so he made Chief in 8 or 9 years in a “closed” rate.

            So why am I bringing all this up? He volunteered for Viet Nam service. After that they really kicked up the “Brown Water Navy” and he was very honest about wanting any part of it. This from a guy that walked into fires to pull pilots out of burning planes and picked up little pieces of friends after crashes @ China Lake. A very respectable if not spectacular career.

            10 years ago I started working with a gun smith just to help out because I am disabled (3 broken back events compressing 8 verts and burst fracture of one) and love guns and many gun people. The owner started telling us he was a “Courier” w/Top Secret clearance and flew back and forth from US to VN hand cuffed to a locked brief case. Okay. I could believe that. Next he started telling everyone many times (he has this act down to the very same words) that the REMFs got his orders mixed up while in VN and the next thing he knew he was buying uniforms to be on a “river boat”. Says it took 9 months to get him off the boat.

            Those of you that know about this era know that short of being either a SEAL or a USN Corpsman attached to the Marines it was THE most dangerous duty in VN for a member of the USN. One “scene” he has down to the last word is how they infiltrated a VC village and he met a VC in a door to a hooch and bayoneted the guy in the chest burying the bayonet (attached to his Featherlite shotgun and the sling on his arm) threw the sternum and he could not get the bayonet out just as the whole place was turning into a massive firefight the Chief was yelling for them to run for the boat. He laughs at this point and says he ran like hell and his shot gun kept getting heavier and heavier. When they made the boat the Chief asked “why bring HIM!?” and the 85-90 lb VC was still attached to his gun but he had been running so hard and was scared in his first fight he did not notice!!”

            At this point I listened harder when he told each new gun owner/customer the exact same stories with the exact same words over and over till I could recite them! A mutual friend half my age was always so impressed and finally I asked him did he believe this stuff? He sat for a minute in my car (he knew nothing about the military) and said “Well he sure likes to tell them…”

            The truth? He did serve in the USN during VN War. He was in war zone near as I can tell. HE WAS COOK ON A DESTROYER!!

            Being raised in the military (Naval Aviation) I know that 95% or even 99% in this part of the service is there to SUPPORT the guys in harms way. NO SHAME IN THAT! Somebody had to cook right? I want to turn him in so bad but he is the only person in his family bringing in an income. He is also very abusive to the women in his family and in general.

            Claims to have made Mauser sporters for both President Bush 1&2 and Senator Fred Thompson. 10 more for the State Department which gives them to visiting Arab statesmen as part of the honor paid to their traditions. The list goes on and on but it is the lies about his service that eat me up so bad that I stopped helping in the shop. I am 63 and he is 65

    • Kivaari

      Odd, Why so many Marine histories use the term, and never in a bad context.

      • Evan

        Name one Marine history that uses it.

        For someone who was never in the Corps, you sure claim to know an awful lot.

        • Kivaari

          Wow, You have never read any books about Marines? You don’t know they have a bulldog as a mascot, thanks to the WW1 description given our Marines, by them indicating the toughness of our Marines. Just where did you serve?
          So, because I know that little nick name given to our proud Marines, makes me think I am an expert? Well, at least I know how to read history books and even watch The History Channel. I find you think a little too deep on such a simple issue. I’ve never met a Marine that thought being a Devil Dog was an insult. It has been viewed as an honor to those young Maries that just finished basic.

          • Evan

            I was IN the Marine Corps, Beavis. I actually know what I’m talking about. You’re literally attempting to argue with a Marine about the Marine Corps based solely on conjecture. I was at the Marine Corps Air Ground Combat Center at Twentynine Palms, California. I went to boot camp at Parris Island and SOI at Camp Lejeune/Geiger. I, like every other Marine, figured out that Devil Dog wasn’t a compliment, however it may have been meant by the apocryphal German soldier, within the first week of SOI. Marines actually use the term “devil dog” as a verb that means “to yell at”, as in “I got devil-dogged by that POG gunny for wearing my beanie during the day”. You really ought not to argue about things you know nothing about.

          • Kivaari

            Try reading a book. Obviously, if you don’t know that basic Marine Corp nickname, you couldn’t have been much of a Marine. You need to apologize to the Marines mascot. You weren’t a good Marine.

          • Evan

            Hahahaha, so I was a bad Marine because I don’t know “that basic Marine Corps nickname”. Brilliant reasoning. Because I challenged an incorrect assumption you had about a branch that you never served in and know nothing about, I’m somehow a bad Marine. I did four years in the Marine Corps. You have done zero. You obviously don’t actually know any Marines, or at least they don’t talk to you about their service, because you’re making an argument based on absolutely nothing but assumption. This is completely ridiculous. You’re actually arguing with me about a life experience of mine that you have not shared. You may as well argue with Buzz Aldrin about what the experience of being on the moon is like.

          • Kivaari

            You certainly didn’t learn much while in the corp. Do the google search for some basic facts about the term. Kid, you haven’t seen much of anything.

          • Evan

            You mean “I didn’t learn the things you assume to be true based on no actual information”. Hey, we don’t call Master Gunnery Sergeants “sarge” either. I can’t wait to hear your ridiculous argument against that one.

          • Kivaari

            The popular term for them is “gunny”.

          • Evan

            Actually it’s “master guns”. Gunny is only used for Gunnery Sergeants. But, since you were never in the Corps, you wouldn’t know this, like you don’t know anything else about the Corps.

          • Barney Samson

            Thou doth protest too much.

          • Devil_Doc

            03-07 as a ground controller, and you don’t feel pride in being called devil dog? That’s just sad.

          • Evan

            I take pride in the title Marine. “Devil Dog” is just some nonsense that SNCOs say when they’re yelling at you. When you get to go score some hot chow at Camp Fallujah and some gunny with spotless cammies on yells at you for being dirty, that’s getting ‘devil-dogged’. NOBODY likes that.

        • Kivaari

          Try a simple google search using USMC Devil Dogs. It’s right there for your education. An apology would be in order, since you are so ignorant of the usage.

          • Evan

            Dude, I WAS IN THE CORPS. I know far better than you about the term. I said something you didn’t know. Instead of saying “I didn’t know that, I assumed the opposite”, you’re trying to argue with me based on WWII propaganda posters or something. Just think about that for a minute.

          • Kivaari

            Not our Marines. You’d know more than you do if you had served.

          • Evan

            Yeah, the US Marine Corps. From 2003-2007. I know things about the Corps based on being in it, not based on Heartbreak Ridge or WWII recruiting posters, or wherever it is you get your “information”.

          • In Evan’s defense, it really appears to be a generational issue. I’ve seen other younger Marines complain about this term for the very same reason. What was meant to be a motivational term has been turned into a slur by overuse and misuse.

            It would be interesting to try to track down when this first happened.

          • Kivaari

            It appeared before the cited BW battle in 1918. Several UD newspapers reported it. It is found all over the web, and in official histories of the Marines. Just do the google search and you can bring up the Marines.com official site. Also hundreds if not thousands of history books reference the term. But 1918 is where it made the news, and has been loved until this kids era. Too bad, as we always used it as a compliment. I guess todays marines are unworthy. At least Evan thinks so.

          • Evan

            “We”? You were never in the Corps. You joined the Navy to paint ships and thus avoid Vietnam. I’m talking about the practical use of the term based on my experience, whereas you’re talking about public relations nonsense from a century ago (to the extent you’re talking about anything).

          • Kivaari

            Marines call it tradition. Like from the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli. Those go back even farther. I guess the Marines need to change their theme song for you.

          • Kivaari

            Maybe it is a result of the new nice and fuzzy Marines of today. If so, they lost a great piece of tradition. I have never read any source that used it in a way to demean any marine. Evan needs to do some research, as he missed that class.

          • Dan

            Because of this argument, I just called and woke up my nephew who served in the Marines and got out in 2012. He doesn’t see the term being negative in any way. I guess though to some people it is, and apparently those same people liken you to a draft dodger unless you were actually in combat. Guess playing a supportive role in war means you’re a p.o.s.

          • Enough already—–

      • Try the following search query:

        https://www.google.com/search?q=%22devil+dogs%22+site%3Amarines.mil&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

        That will pull up every reference of the term “devil dogs” on official USMC websites.

    • JSmath

      One of my closest friends that I grew up with was a Marine and is even going back in after going through college. He doesn’t hate the term. Though 99.9% of any of his references to it are heavy sarcasm, he still doesn’t *hate* it. A lot of older veterans do take pride in the term. You might speak for the most recent generation of Marines, but certainly not all.

      • Kivaari

        It has never been an insult, but an honor to be called a Devil Dog. Evan is clueless.

        • Evan

          Actually, you, who have never been in the Corps and basically admit you have no idea what you’re talking about, are clueless. I actually know what I’m talking about.

          • Kivaari

            So now you are going to insult Devil Doc as well? Kid, you never served.

          • Evan

            No, I’m insulting you, because you have no idea what you’re talking about, and you’re trying to argue with Marines about what the Marine Corps is like. I presume Devil Doc was a Navy corpsman, and his opinion seems slightly different than mine, but unlike you he at least has a leg to stand on. You are literally attempting to say “let me tell you how it was for you”, and then denying I served because I actually know how Marines act as opposed to what recruiting posters say. So yeah, you’re embarrassing yourself, give it up.

        • Devil_Doc

          Semper fi, Devil Doc.

      • Evan

        It’s a term that, whatever its origin, is now used solely to yell at Marines. Nobody likes the sound of “hey, devil dog”, as they know it means they’re about to be chewed out over something like having hands in pockets or something equally trivial. Kivaari never served in the Marine Corps, and plainly has no idea what he’s talking about. His statements are based on recruiting posters from WWII that he’s seen and the existence of the bulldog mascot.

        • Kivaari

          Kid, you have the wrong war. It was from WW1, and no WW1 veterans are still alive. I think you should read the official history of the Marines. Follow those handy links and you will see the light.

          • Evan

            American involvement in WWI didn’t last very long. Interwar and early WWII era recruiting posters had the “devil dog” stuff on them. I’d suggest actually learning what you’re talking about before shooting off at the mouth.

          • Kivaari

            1918 kid. Look it up.

          • Evan

            Actually, we got involved in 1917, the battle of Belleau Wood where the term originated was in 1918, and either way I don’t know why I’m arguing with some draft-dodging fool who knows nothing about the Corps either way.

          • Kivaari

            Kid the term came into notice in 1918. Go read a book.

        • claymore

          Not true.

    • claymore

      Wrong again so stop saying that crap. Devil dog has many uses including a term of endearment or fellowship in the Marines.

  • Ryfyle

    Kinda makes me want to buy up all there manufacturing equipment and AR accessories with a Happy Clown logo.

  • Noishkel

    Hmm. Given that update I wonder if we’re not seeing more that just what we’re seeing. It takes a whole WHOLE lot to build a business. Let along a gun store. I imagine we’ll see that this company has a lot of other serious problems.

    • thedonn007

      I was thinking the same thing. It would seem that the company might have been close to folding anyway. He made his money while the demand was high.

  • SirOliverHumperdink

    No longer associated? Shades of ‘neva bin dunn be foe’.

    • Former employee

      I assure you, he is no longer associated with the company. The real vets at the company outed him.

  • Vitsaus

    Did some one out him? Smells like some one found out and he was heading off a scandal, or even blackmail.

  • MyFifteenthAccount

    I can’t help but feel sorry for all those poor vets who woke up thinking they had left their valor on the kitchen table before bed, only to have it stolen under cover of darkness by this heartless, devious scoundrel.

  • Kahless

    I used to work for him and knew he was never in the Marines. Brought this to a few organizations attention but it never got anywhere.

  • Joshua

    “Oh and Joe, we always capitalize “Marine”…”

    …when refering to an actual or former Marine.

    • Anonymoose

      But what about other countries’ marines? The US isn’t the only country with naval infantry.

      • Bacon Chaser

        They don’t much like being reminded they’re part of the Navy…

        • Ron

          Because the Marine Corps is not part of the Navy and have not been since 1947. The Navy and the Marine Corps are co-equal services, with their service chief both serving as members of the Joint Chiefs

          • Bacon Chaser

            Interesting. So despite the USMC using USN personnel (HMs and assorted aviation ratings), using USN ships for transports (“gator freighters”), serving as dedicated security forces on certain ships (usually CVNs) and many USN bases and the branch as a whole being classified as part of the Department of the Navy (there is no Department of the Marine Corps)…they aren’t part of the Navy?

          • Ron

            The Dept of the Navy is different than the USN. The DoN is the secretariat with it associated title X responsibilities and the separate service and their service chiefs have their specific Title X responsibilities. Bottom line is people who make your argument are ignorant of what the law actual says, how it works and the organizational structure of the Departments and the Service.

            The Marine Corps stopped providing ships detachments in the late 90s with the USS America being the last so equipped ship. The USMC only provides security to those assets deemed by the SecNav as national security assets, and those are kept at Kitsap-Bangor and Kingsbay, the only guard the assets and not the bases themselves. There are additionally 6 FAST companies (3 CONUS and 3 in support of the Combatant Commanders) , but they are there to provide expeditionary security because when the switch was made in 1997 to MA bases security and eventually to the NECC, Navy leadership did not really trust sailors to do the mission. The Navy still has some issues with their institutional trust of sailors with guns and some day you will probably see the Green in Support of Blue mission going away except for the guarding of Kitsap-Bangor and Kingsbay

          • Kivaari

            The secretary of the Navy, a civilian, sits above the chief or staff for the Navy and Marines. All of the services are led by civilians first, then the chiefs of staff. The Navy has 7 sub-sections and Marines are just one of them.

          • Kivaari

            The secretary of defense is the guy that oversees the department of the navy run by the secretary of navy over the Navy and Marine corps. If Marines don’t serve on ships, that doesn’t remove them from the navy department. Just look at the US Navy chain of command structure. It has not changed. Duties have been changed, not the chain of command. There is always cross contamination. Perhaps those naval ship packing helicopters and marines should go look at a book about where they fit in the scheme of things. Some, Marines simply hate being part of the navy, even though the tradition goes back quite a long way. It is after all, a name used to describe naval infantry, that has been around since our navy was first formed. I suggest you go look at any Marines discharge from honorable service.

          • Kivaari

            Marines are a small group under the command of the navy command structure. Marines use Naval medical personnel as well. “Corpsman up”, is calling a sailor to render aid.

          • Devil_Doc

            They also call us Devil Doc…

          • Kivaari

            AND it wasn’t an insult. It’s quite an honor to be called a devil dog or doc.

          • bob

            They are part of the Navy, the mens department.

          • Kivaari

            Wrong. The Marines are a small part of the US Navy. Look at any honorable discharge from serving as a Marine. It comes from the Department of the Navy. It has always been that way. With the chiefs of service, the Marines are represented by the infantry side of the service. The CNO is concerned with the boats and ships. Some Marines just can’t get over the fact they are simply the infantry or aviation branch of the larger Navy.

          • Ron

            Kivaari

            You are completely incorrect and obviously never serve in an echelon to learned what the the command authority within the US is, the military has a bifurcated arrangement with operational and policy branches.

            SECNAV (nor is any service secretary) is not in the operational chain, the operational chain goes from POTUS, with the advise of the JCS, to SECDEF to the combatant commanders.

            policy side it goes from the POTUS (with the advise of the JCS), to the SecDef to the Service Secretaries to the service chief. The reality the service secretaries were rendered obsolete by the 1947 National Security Act when the SECDEF was established, however they remain as spoils positions.
            It has been few months since I was an retirement ceremony, but the last one I was at for a Marine had a retirement certificate/letter from the President and the Commandant, none from the SECNAV

          • Kivaari

            OK. Why does the seal of the marines corps have in bold letters across the top, “DEPARTMENT OF THE NAVY” and underneath that “United States Marine Corps”? . When I look up the chain of command for the united state Navy or ALL the branches of service, do the Marines always end up being shown under the Department of the Navy? Why, do all the Marines I’ve checked with admitted that their honorable discharge certificates come from the Department of the Navy. They are not from the US Marine Corps?
            It has always been that way as far back as I can remember. If you do a search of those subjects, either directly with the services mentioned, do they continue to show the Navy as the umbrella service? That is how we get the idea that the shipboard Marines first evolved out of sailors. Why do we have an issue that is not reflected in the research data?
            You might go to the service branch websites and have them correct how they show the chain of command. It seems that 200 years of tradition has vaporized.

          • Ron

            26 years of commissioned arrive in Corps to include quite a bit of time in DC tells me I understand the higher level organization of the DoN than some guy who has to look stuff up

            You may want to read title X and stop posting nonsense

          • Kivaari

            Ron, I will concede your vast knowledge. Why would I look up the information if a person such as yourself gave me incentive to verify what I understood to be factual? It isn’t wrong to investigate, when in doubt. I then ask, Why do the official government sites, show the Marines under the Department of Navy? Why does the Marine corps have Department of Navy above Marines on the flow chart and the seal (logo) of the corps? Why, do my Marine friends have discharges from the Navy?
            Title 10 must show how funding is handled. Why does the commandant get listed in the flow chart as being under the department of the Navy?
            I will concede to your vast knowledge and will live on thinking marines are still a small unit of the larger department of defense and department of the Navy, until the command flow charts are revised to reflect that.

          • Kivaari

            The Department of the Navy oversees all branches of the Navy. that includes Marines.

          • Ron

            Complete non-sense, you don’t know anything about the structure of organization of the DOD and how it is defined by the Title X.

          • Kivaari

            I just went to the Marine and Navy websites, and they don’t show me anything different from what I learned so many years ago.

        • MichaelZWilliamson

          The Men’s Department.

          So the rejoinder goes.

      • Kivaari

        In other nations, the Navy is all inclusive with ground pounders and sailors. Look at the Germans, they use Marine for anything Navy. Spanish speakers use Marine in the same fashion.

        • Anonymoose

          The first thing that came to mind was the Royal Marines. That’s why I spoke up. Didn’t intend to cause a sh*tstorm.

          • DB

            I left a comment a bit ago, and evidently was moderated out. That’s ok. I just tend to say what I think. I was not Military, I served a different way, retired as a Sergeant with a State Police Agency for just under 30 years. There are those that did, those that didn’t, you know in your gut where you really stand! I want to let those that did serve that I appreciate what you did more than I have words for, for your service and sacrifice! GOD BLESS!!

          • Try again I didn’t find it in the deleted file—-

    • …which he wasn’t, so I guess he used the correct case!

  • Anomanom

    If the number of people who claimed to have been in the military actually had been, the army would be bigger than the population.

    • MichaelZWilliamson

      If I had $5 for every “Former Navy SEAL” I’ve met (some of them in the Marines as well), I could buy all the FA weapons I’ve ever wanted.

  • Ben Wong

    how come no one in stolen valor ever claim to be a PoG or a Cook…. Supply … or Motor T

    • Joe

      Because if you said you were a mess sergeant they’d think “Under Siege” instead of handing some giant canned goods to hungry kids at the end of an FTX.

    • Kivaari

      95% of every service are REMFs. The pointy part of the spear needs that 95% to do their jobs. There is no shame in serving at any level. I was a draft dodger, I enlisted twice. I went where the Navy and Army said I should be. It was OK with me.

      • MIke H

        My cousin was a logistics guy in the Marine Reserves. Never made him any less of a Marine in my eyes…

      • Zebra Dun

        What makes a man what he did or does in a war is Logistics, circumstance and Luck, good or bad as the case may be.
        Spokes inside a wheel, all give some, some give all.

        • Kivaari

          That’s a very good analogy. So true.

    • Set

      Motor T Mech and proud of it. I enlisted 3521 to work on trucks, instead I got attached to an infantry battalion and had to change tires on convoys because grunts don’t know how to do even that.

      Funnily enough, though, every Marine I have met since has been Recon out of San Diego, but has never heard of Camp Margarita. Weird.

      • Jason P. Brown

        When I was in, and this is a while ago, Recon was in Las Flores (both Battalion and Force) along with 1st Tanks and my unit, 1st LAI (now 1st LAR, after a brief stint as 1st RLA). Margarita was where my second unit, 3/9 was. I’ve heard it’s all changed.

        Semper Fi, Brother!

        • Set

          Fair point. I imagine it has changed quite a bit. I can’t stand how I have never met another mechanic older than me, and I got in in 2006. Weird how that the whole Corps before that was Recon, Force or otherwise. Not a POG in sight.

          • Motor-T

            Not all of us.

            3521 1994-1998

          • Cattoo

            Artilleryman, Cannon Cocker 0811 Fox Battery 2nd Bn 12th Marines 3rd Mar. Div. then we reinforced 1/12 on MCAS Kaneohe Bay with 1st Marine Expeditionary Brigade. Cpl. 1986-1991 Semper Fi

        • Evan

          1st Tanks is now at Twentynine Palms

    • Motor-T

      I tell people I was Motor-T because I was. Every now and then someone will lean in and conspiratorially ask “what’d you really do?”
      Try though I might, I’m not sure they are ever actually convinced that I was a mechanic.

      I didn’t steal valor. Somebody else put it in my pocket.

      Jay
      Lcpl 3521 1994-1998

    • Xanderbach

      I was an 13E, fire direction control supervisor. Basically the guy that coordinates artillery fire. I joined in 1998, got out in 2002. I’ve heard more bullets zing past me at my local desert range (don’t shoot at rocks!) than I ever did in the army. That is, when I can hear them. The gun bunnies at the breach get ear-pro. We had to leave ours halfway out to hear what the FDO was saying. Fun times.

  • Kivaari

    Why people do this amazes me. Everything is pretty much in data bases and gets checked. If you served, like I did, don’t be ashamed to having been a REMF. I was in the Navy and did a West Pacific tour. I never heard a bullet go by. That fits about 95% of our service members, and the trigger pullers need the rest of us to get them bullets and beans to them. Same with the Army NG. Serving in peacetime, and being willing to go if needed, is a hell of a lot better than not serving.

    • David

      I can tell you for sure that there are plenty of people who appreciate your service regardless of what you did!

    • Zebra Dun

      Thank you for serving, the ocean is a more formidable foe than any human enemy she takes no prisoners.
      It takes guts and discipline to sail a ship, do your duty and come home safe.
      Semper Fidelis.

      • Kivaari

        It sure did not help when I returned in August of 1970. I did have an instant job at a local PD. It was a time when many of the people hated anything to do with Vietnam. I was quite lucky. When I hit the ship on Christmas eve 1967 the navy had not quite figured out what to do with me. Instantly I was in deck division chipping paint. I’d rather have been shot at, than chip paint. The new guy gets mess duty, but soon an LT from supply came by and asked about my records he had seen. I had 2 years of college and was scooped up by him. Good for me. While at condition 3 Wartime steaming which we did while in Vietnamese waters we all had three jobs. My regular job, and watches in CIC and damage control. We fired hundreds of rounds every few days and had to rearm while underway. It was lots of physical work and lots of boredom. On plane guard, chasing carriers, we had to track all the surface targets and they were hundreds of little fishing boats, some having the curious “ringed” antenna unique to Soviet field radios. We only had two planes go down while there. A Phantom took hits. The pilot radioed in and said his RIO was dead. As he neared us he ejected, only to drown. The other was the COD that just drove into the water killing 5. On the previous cruise my ship had hundreds of cannon fire directed at it, only having minor damage. The PAVN, learned that it doe not go well for them when they shoot at American warships. The Electronics Counter Measure crew could pinpoint where the enemy gun is, and can lay 5″-54 projectiles on them with a vengeance. Each weighed 74 pounds. We could not always be of value. On July 4, 1970 we were having a 4th of July BBQ in DaNang, when 20km south Marines were being mangled. We made haste, only to get on the gun line, with both guns down. In CIC I heard the Marine RTO give a very chilly “Thanks for showing up”, We were useless. My boss knew I wanted to be on the ground, so along with a few others we were carried by a SVN little boat to meet the Marines at Camp Chesty Pullar, “The Worlds Smallest Marine Camp in the World”, as their sign proclaimed. It was Naval Gunfire Support Team 1 – USMC. Those guys and the 6 SEALs living nearby were they guys that identified targets and provided us with BDA, showing what enemy structures we had destroyed. Those guys were the pointy part of the spear. The Marines were pretty much like us, just ordinary looking men. The SEALs were the Hollywood image of tough warriors. There was no mistaking how serious those men were. I saw my first Type 56 AK. It had a nice 7.62mm hole through the receiver right where the magazine rested. The SEAL simply said, “You should have seen the look on his face”, as he killed him.
        Yep, I had it easy. At least I was never shot at. In our group, I was the guy packing the Commodores .45, We weren’t in much danger. Lucky us.
        I never looked down on we little people. The military has reason for how they man the warships and other units. When people bash the REMFs, they forget that those represent 95% of all service members, I respect those that join. I don’t care where or what your job is, since they are all needed. My neighbors were Marines, a husband and wife (deceased). Both worked in accounting. He was embarrassed at being a Marine rifleman serving as an accountant. I asked him why, since everyone liked getting paid, and he and his wife took care of it.

    • CavScout

      For Army NG, some time in the late 2000’s, the ARNG made up up 70% of coalition forces in Iraq. ‘Serving in Peacetime’ doesn’t accurately describe many of them these days. Not since the ARNG / Army Reserve reorg, adding a lot of combat arms jobs to the NG, and removing a lot of support ones.

      • Kivaari

        Like the USAF where over 50% of the officers are reserves.

  • Kivaari

    Funny stuff about the term “Devil Dogs”. I get called out for misusing the term by people that obviously never served in the Marines or alongside them in the Navy. Try this on for size. Use google and enter USMC Devil Dogs, and you will see it is a very nice nickname that came out of the WW1 battles in 1918. As to this article, the guys a loser. like all stolen valor types.

    • Evan

      Hahahahaha you’re a fool. You never served in the Corps. You claim you were in the Navy, but clearly not a greenside Corpsman. You’re making blanket statements about things you know nothing about, and when Marines tell you otherwise, you respond with “let me tell you how it was for you”. Arrogance and ignorance are a dangerous combination.

      • Kivaari

        I never claimed I was a Marine. I am a Navy vet ’67-70. My only medals were the National defense and Vietnam service. I never heard a bullet go by. But we sure sent a lot of them out. I did do the “Try One” Army National Guard ’81-’82. Peacetime NG was nothing like war time Navy. Had I not needed foot and knee surgery I would have stayed.
        What blanket statement that I made is incorrect? Do a little thing like reading a book about your beloved corp. If you think Devil Dog is an insult, you really are not very bright. You need to go back and shoot the mascot to get rid of the evidence.

        • Evan

          I was in the Marine Corps. I know from first hand experience that “devil dog” is a term used by staff NCOs when they’re yelling at you for petty nonsense. I never said it was in insult, I said it’s a term that Marines hate because it’s used solely by people yelling at you over petty nonsense. You, who admit to never being a Marine, are trying to tell me, a Marine, how Marines feel about things. This is completely ridiculous.

          • Kivaari

            Did you know that people in the other armed services know how to read?

          • Evan

            Yeah, Beavis, I can clearly read. One would need to to respond to the comments you’re making about things you admit you don’t know. I actually read quite a bit, including about the Marine Corps. I really don’t understand why anyone would take such a strong position on something they admit they know nothing about.

          • Kivaari

            Kid go read a book.

          • Evan

            Hahahahahahaha go talk to an actual Marine

          • Devil_Doc

            Yeah, green side corpsman here. Devil Dog is similar to “oorah”, “get some”, “moto”, “hard charger”, or any other of a number of slang phrases in the Marines. It can mean whatever you want it to mean. It can be a compliment, or an insult, a greeting, telling someone to eff off, etc. It all depends on usage. Seems a bit odd to me that a self professed Marine doesn’t get that. And why are you ragging on a corpsman? Haven’t we done enough to earn a little respect from you Devil Dog?

          • Kivaari

            Every Marine I ever met loved those navy medics. One of our local MOH recipients was a navy corpsman. He has a Naval hospital named after him, Robert Bush. He killed quite a few Japs with his M1911A1 while treating casualties. You can read his story on line. Many years he had many MOH recipients come to the Harbor to go salmon fishing. Guys like Joe Foss and Jimmy Doolittle. I’d bet all those marines and corpsman would know what an honorary title like Devil Dog is all about. This Evan kid probably was booted out of basic training.

          • Evan

            Did you attempt to argue with Joe Foss about what areal combat over Guadalcanal was like too? Or are you just the type of keyboard warrior who argues about things he doesn’t know from the safety of his computer?

          • Kivaari

            Why would I argue with Foss? The guy was a fantastic fighter pilot. What makes you go off topic so badly. I honor our real Marines and Navy Corpsmen, and then inject some petty insult. I guess you would call an civil war historian a fraud because he didn’t serve in the Union Army. Kid, you were not a marine, at least not a good one. How long did you last? A week?

          • Evan

            Well, you feel the need to argue about things you don’t understand, and you clearly think that you know everything, so why wouldn’t you argue with Joe Foss? You refuse to believe what a Marine tells you about the Marine Corps because it contradicts assumptions you’ve made based on recruiting posters, and now you’re questioning my service because I point out reality to you? You were some National Guard POG who did your best to avoid Vietnam from what I gather from your other comments. How dare you actually question the service of others based on things they actually know?

          • Kivaari

            Kid, I enlisted in the Navy and went to Vietnam. I only have two awards, the everyone gets ND medal and Vietnam Service.

          • Evan

            Yeah, you enlisted in the Navy to avoid actually going to Vietnam. You painted ships gray somewhere in the Pacific rather than go fight. Excellent work.

          • Squirreltakular

            So, I really couldn’t care less about this argument, but I felt like I should chime in. Devil_Doc had it right; the term can mean whatever you want. Just because it’s occasionally thrown out during an ass chewing doesn’t mean the term loses its historical significance. Everyone needs to chill the f out.

          • Christopher Armour

            You need to check yourself.

          • Mi

            You just crossed the line from being annoying to being a dripping Johnson.

          • MichaelZWilliamson

            Wow, what a POS.

            You never served in anyone’s military.

            Keep talking. You’re making it obvious.

          • Ok guys you have both made the points you were after let’s drop it.

          • Evan

            I said nothing that could possibly be construed as ragging on a corpsman. I appreciate corpsmen like every Marine does.

            What circumstance have you ever heard devil dog used in besides “c’mere debbadog”, or joking around in the barracks/field mimicking that? It simply isn’t used in any other circumstances.

          • Kivaari

            Kid, go read a book. Use those handy .com links to sources that show how the term originated, and why you are so wrong. Real Marines know the truth.

          • Evan

            We’ve already discussed how the term originated. It isn’t relevant. The origin of the term has nothing to do with its current use and the opinion Marines have of it. You really shouldn’t talk about things you don’t understand.

          • Kivaari

            You were probably addressed that way to get your attention for being a slacker. Real Marines, not so much. Now how about “Leatherneck” is that an insult as well? It’s even older.

          • Evan

            Leatherneck is not an insult. It’s based on leather collars from the 19th century. It wasn’t used much in my day.

            I love how you’re essentially a draft dodger and you’re questioning the service of others based on your own ignorance of a subject.

          • Kivaari

            Actually, I was recruited. While in college, our local recruiter was a police officer I knew. He called and I joined. When I got back from Vietnam, I arrived in Long Beach, was RIFed, flew home, and went to work that night in a patrol car. Around 60% of our crew was RIFed in 1970, because the war was slowing down. I killed VC and PAVN soldiers by remote control. As I said elsewhere, I never heard a bullet go by. I sat under a vent in CIC and had a better time. I did visit Camp Chesty Puller at Phan Thiet. Those guys called targets for us. Another group of SEALs lived in a little white house on the beach. No one screwed with them. Me, I WAS a happy REMF. Years later I was recruited for the Army NG, and did the “Try One” for prior honorably discharged vets. I recommend not getting hit by a car, requiring knee and foot surgery. It plays hell with the annual run.

          • imachinegunstuff

            In Evans defense he’s right in a way. I’ve never heard the nickname used in a positive manner. I’ve only seen it used when a SNCO didn’t remember or know the name if another junior Marine. I’ve seen it used in chewing outs and seen it used like “Hey Devil Dog go get Lt Smith for the briefing”
            I know the tradition in history but these days its not really used by anyone outside the sncos and boots

          • J. Murphy

            If anyone involved was the scholar of Marine history they’re claiming to be, they’d know that “teufel hunden” is grossly incorrect German and that the likely source of the story is actually someone the American press of the time digging out a German-English dictionary and coming up with a good piece of propaganda.

          • Core

            I’ve heard Master Guns address his Marines in a pre invasion speech as Devil Dogs and Leathernecks. Just sayin. Things are getting awful pc these days but time changes everything. And arguing over how terms are used is pointless. We all have our own experiences, but don’t go calling a volunteered Vietnam veteran a draft dodger. Kivaari deserves some respect, even though he is a pita.. 😉

          • MichaelZWilliamson

            Wow, a ‘Nam vet is a “draft dodger.”

            Yo should go eat a shotgun.

            Have you noticed how you have zero upvotes? So everyone on the thread thinks you’re wrong.

          • Gregory Peter Dupont

            I was kind of thinking ” he should go into ANY room with any number of vets from ANY branch and run that Man Pleaser”… Results should be amusing.

          • Christopher Armour

            That sounds like an argument a gun grabber would make against the phraseology of the 2A.

          • Trey Odom

            @ Evan. Way to derail the commentary. Are you 12yo? You pick out some little thing and just blather on endlessly. Let it go man.

          • USMC2090

            The corpsman is correct Evan. It can mean what you want it to mean. I’ve heard it used by DI’s calling out some sh**bird or by commanding officers complimenting a group of hard charging devil dogs for taking some kind of initiative. I got out in 2005 so maybe the term has changed since then…but it would be a shame if that were the case.

          • Doug73

            Sorry, but you’re just wrong. The term is not “solely” used when someone is being yelled at. How do I know? Because I had the pleasure of being an Army guy (one of four) billeted with 30 Marines at what was then Naval Amphibious Base Littlecreek between 1992-1993. I heard the term Devil Dog used in all kinds of context…not just “solely” when a Marine was being yelled at or belittled. More than anything, it just seemed to be another name for “Marine”.

            My favorite use might have been this direct quote from a Marine staff sergeant to his troops: “Alright Devil Dogs, it’s 1700 hours. You have exactly seven hours to go to the Helm Club and provide proof you’ve won tonight’s pig-sticking challenge.” (This will make sense to anyone who ever set foot in the Helm Club after a ship went out to sea.)

          • Hillary “Screech” Clinton

            Then tell us, “Evan” – why do you do it?

          • Core

            So he brought down the people unto the water: and the LORD said unto Gideon, Every one that lappeth of the water with his tongue, as a dog lappeth, him shalt thou set by himself; likewise every one that boweth down upon his knees to drink. Judges 7:5

            This is the true origin of the term dogs of war. Shakespeare coined the phrase “let slip the dogs of war…” in one of his works which popularized the term. During the battle of Belleau Wood in 1918 the Germans said the Marines fought like “dogs from hell.” Hence the term Devil Dog was adopted by the Corps.

            I was a sailor trained with Marines, and fought with Marines, so I picked up a bit of history.

          • Jason P. Brown

            Posting as a veteran infantry Marine, that big green weenie must have hit you pretty hard to get all dickish about the use of the term “Devil Dog”. I’m proud of that being called that, as well as jarhead and leatherneck. The guys I served with all call each other Devil Dog, or Devil, or even just Dog all the time and it’s said with love and pride. Assuming it has a one-dimensional usage is pretty freaking naive and doesn’t really give a great deal of credence to your service, from my perspective. So take that how you will, Marine.

            As far as Devil Dog Arms goes, I was trying to figure out a way to give them some money because I go out of the way to help Veteran businesses, especially ones run by a jarhead. This is one of the reasons BCM is a go-to supplier of AR parts for me. The founder of that company is a Marine, and he wasn’t even some high speed low drag Recon Marine, but a Marine nonetheless. So he gets my money and support.

          • I just messaged a nephew who is currently stationed at Camp LeJeune. He confirms that “Devil Dog” commonly gets slung around by senior NCOs calling out lower-ranking Marines for petty issues.

          • Jason P. Brown

            I’ve heard of “devildogging” someone, and if it is current behavior to drag that nickname through the mud, then I suspect it’s toxicity is limited to the support arm. I wouldn’t be surprised if it is an extension of the anti “pog” bias. I could see some salty dog in charge of pog’s using that term in mockery, but that should get squared away immediately.

          • He is an infantry Marine (or whatever Marines call guys in rifle/infantry platoons, if there’s a specific Marine term for them), dealing with squad support weapons (M240 I believe?), but he is state-side, so who knows. Just passing on the “affirmative” I got from him that this is something that happens on a frequent basis.

          • Boss

            Evan

            Cut it out! The Germans got their butts kicked like never before by Marines in WWI and called the Marines Teufel Hunde Odas or Devil Dogs.

            It is a name Marines are proud of.

            Kivaari is correct, and yes, we were always happy to see CH46s with an external load of c-rats and sometimes beer and soda, brought to us by the US Navy.

            And I do despise people who steal valor. It seems if you are a liberal it is a badge of electability like Richard Blumenthal (D) Senator from Connecticut. He was in the corps during the VN war but told people for years he was a VN vet. He is an ex-marine like Ozwald and Democratic Representative John Murtha of Pennsylvania and others.

            I have seen the bravest young men you can’t even imagine walk into a hail of bullets so thick you can actually see them. Maybe there is a Vietnamese word for Devil Dog…

            Boss 2/4 3rd Mar Div Fox co Magnificent Bastards ICorps VN 67-69

          • Evan

            0311 here. It’s been dragged through the mud in the infantry for sure, but I’ve had POG SNCOs call me “devil dog” as a prelude to yelling at me for wearing a beanie in Iraq and similar nonsense.

          • JimmKnows

            Evan, 0351 Vietnam Vet here(65-66)… Devil Dog was never a pejorative term during my time (64-70) in the Corps. In fact, we took it as a nick-name to be proud of.

          • Evan

            I never said it was originally intended as a perjorative term, it clearly wasn’t. What I said was that by the time I was in (2003-2007) it is only used as a prelude to getting yelled at (which we called getting “devil-dogged” by the way). As in “hey there devil dog, get your hands out of your pockets”.

            The day I graduated boot camp, me and every other new Marine congratulated each other by using the term “devil dog”. It look less than a week of SOI to realize that getting called “devil dog” is not a good thing anymore.

          • JimmKnows

            In my day, there was no “SOI”. We had ITR, four weeks of “advanced boot camp” following the 12 weeks of “tear you down to build a Marine” (boot camp) exercises. I never even heard the term “Devil Dog” except in the Marine history classes during boot camp. It was a name earned in actual combat, not one used lightly.

      • Boss

        I’m not sure Evan really is a Marine!

        Posting this again to be sure Evan sees it.

        The Germans got their butts kicked like never before by Marines in WWI and called the Marines Teufel Hunde Odas or Devil Dogs.

        It is a name Marines are proud of.

        It seems in the occupy Whitehouse sock puppet jhadist years the Corps has become softer and the little shirbirds are getting this feelings hurt.

        Boss 2/4 3rd Mar Div Fox co Magnificent Bastards ICorps VN 67-69

        • Dan Atwater

          I think it’s fairly obvious that he was in the Marines. First, he’s got a bad attitude. Second, he’s right about the term “devil dog.” I’ve only been called that by SNCOs who I’ve never met before (so they don’t address me by name or rank) before chewing me out for doing something like having my hands in my pockets or walking and texting.

          That’s why I miss the flip-open phones with actual buttons. With that tactile feedback and small display I could text with my hands at my sides, WHILE WALKING, and be discreet enough that no crusty SNCO driving by will notice and actually pull over like he suddenly doesn’t have anywhere to be anymore, and yell at me whilst calling me “devil dog.”

          Might be a generational thing but I’ve never served with a real Marine who called anybody “devil dog” or “leatherneck” endearingly unless they were being ironic.

          • Boss

            I sorry to hear that Dan.
            You might read your Marine Corps history before you put down WWI Marines that earned that title for you.
            Could be there is a group of Marines that use the name in a derogatory manner, you should ask them if they know what a Devil Dog is. Seems the only ones complaining are those doing something wrong.
            We would be called Devil Dogs just before going into a firefight. We liked it when we were compared to heroes
            It seems in the new Marine Corps you are more worried having your feelings hurt than honoring you heritage.
            And I’m sorry you think I’m not a real Marine
            Proud Devil Dog & Magnificent Bastard

          • Kivaari

            Look for images and you will see contemporary Marines with tattoos including the devil dog. Many Marine items like coffee mugs, shirts, wall plaques, decals, and artwork portray the Devil Dog image. It hasn’t gone away. But just like many VFW halls across America many of the current crop of veterans don’t join the VFW or American Legion. Like many things of the last century the youth just wont participate. I’m a VFW member, and I admit, I just am not interested enough to run a bingo game or have formal procedures at the start of every meeting. It’s just not what I like. Being a veteran doesn’t mean much to me. I grew up when I expected men to volunteer or get drafted and serving. In college, most people were not interested. A classmate in one or two classes was Eldon Bargwell. He was an enlist Army man, that became a founding member of Delta Force. He retired a few years back as a major general, head of all SOF European HQ. You just never know who goes where and what they do. That old timer struggling to cross a street gets yelled at by young people. I remind them that ythey never know what that man has done in life. We are surrounded by many quiet heroes.

        • Evan

          I was in 2003-2007. 2/7, 1st MArDiv, out at Twentynine Palms (unofficially called “war dogs” by the way. Our battalion offices had the three-headed dog and “cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war” pained somewhere in them). Nobody during my time in called themselves devil dogs, and we were only ever called devil dogs by others when being yelled at for minor stuff like hands in pockets.

  • Kivaari

    Their site says the organization is under construction. I think they can reorganize and become active again. From a brief tour of their site, it looks like they make some good looking parts. Lots of places have to shove out senior staff when they become exposed, indicted or are simply unstable. There is no need for people to lie about their serving or having served. If you were a supply clerk, simply say so. My job was three fold like many sailors. My primary job was finding parts for the guns, comm gear and radars. Secondary job under “condition 3 wartime steaming” I was stationed in the Combat Information Center. (CIC) reporting on surface contacts to the bridge. “General Quarters – battle stations – was damage control” . Most of us had three jobs depending upon “condition”. That’s pretty normal for enlisted navy.

  • Volk

    “Oh and Joe, we always capitalize “Marine”…” News to me, I’ve never capitalized marine, just like I’ve never capitalized airman, soldier, sailor or guardsman.

    • claymore

      Then you have been incorrect while doing it.

      • Volk

        It’s an odd thing to be a pedant about, since if you want to get detailed about it, marine is not a proper noun and as such such has no business being capitalized. Seems like moto nonsense to me.

        • claymore

          doesn’t have to be it’s a sign of RESPECT.

          • anonymouse

            Why not respect airmen, sailors or soldiers then?

          • claymore

            Then capitalize them if you wish to, nobody is stopping you.

          • Volk

            I’ve respected my fellow servicemen for years without doing so. You know, by actually respecting them instead of acting like holding the shift key is any more meaningful than ‘liking’ moto posts like some sort of Facebook activist.

            I don’t even mean any sort of disrespect to you or the author of this article, the whole thing just struck me as a strange thing to criticize.

          • claymore

            So you think I’m not respecting well you know what you can do to yourself. Argue with yourself boy I’m done with you.

      • anonymouse

        Actually anyone capitalising it would be incorrect while doing so unless it was being used as a proper noun. As Volk says, you wouldn’t capitalise ‘soldier’, ‘airman’, or any other adjective or common noun that applies to the military. Capitalising it is simply an affectation – one arguable offensive to current/former member of other services – and one which is somewhat incongruous with the stated ideals and image of the USMC.

        • claymore

          Right sure tell it to the Marines.

    • Rock or Something

      According to U.S. military doctrine guidance, we capitalize all servicemember branches, whether it be Marines, Soldiers, Airmen, Sailor, etc. According to the U.S. Government, those designation are considered proper nouns if used in specific U.S. parlance. If it was a generic term (ie: enemy soldier) then it will not be capitalized.

      I don’t make the rules, I just go along with them.

    • Katie A

      To simplify: A Marine is part of the US Marine Corps. A soldier is part of the US Army, not the US Soldiers. A sailor is part of the US Navy…and so on. “Marine” is a proper noun. Yes, it is also a point of respect. When it comes to grammar, though, it’s specifically a proper noun where the others are not.

  • Leigh Rich

    Used the Marine Vet title to make a buck.

  • Boogur T. Wang

    Meh…another “Professional Veteran” bites the dust.

    Frankly, I don’t trust nothing I don’t persoanlly know about.
    Convince me by the quality and leave the gung-ho hoorah oorah BS aside.

  • uisconfruzed

    It seems if his conscience was bothering him he would have sold off, and ridden into the sunset, instead of putting others out of work. There’s more to this story.
    Blackmail?
    Tired of paying the ex?
    Drugs?

  • RickOAA .

    Never heard of ’em. Wish him the worst.

  • TangledThorns

    As a former corporal in the Colonial Marines I find stolen valor to be repugnant.

  • Mike_Hunt

    It looks like Evan knows how to use Wikipedia

  • Chuck McKinney

    Those who lie about being a Veteran do not even value the sacrifice or service that we true Veterans gave, and to them it’s just a “marketing strategy” used to promote their business or claimed to give them the illusion of a personal honor which they’ll never have and can’t even understand.

  • Well, I don’t have any valor in my service. I just worked on planes and – in retrospect – it was the best job I ever had, fair pay, good hours, and got to go around the nation. My military service was “meh”.

    Generally I don’t dig stolen valor. But it bothered me far more when Stan Lee appeared as a actor playing a WWII vet who “stormed the beaches” at Normandy. Stan just drew comics in WWII and swindled stockholders in the 90s.

  • ScranunSlim

    How do we break the news to the self-described “ex-Marine (sic)” DAN “FAKE BUT TRUE” RATHER

  • R P Daniels

    So sad that people need to use “stolen valor” to accentutate their business accumen. I wonder sometimes if those people imagine themselves better than the rest of the civilian population in that they need to represent themselves as former service members to get ahead. I am proud of my long history of public service, including military service, to our country. I do not need to improve on my career highlights by fabricating or admitting to things, I have not done. I feel sad for the employees that lost lost their jobs through this person’s deception.

  • Mike Lashewitz

    Stolen Valor is sickening. Yet I have witnessed a lot of veterans do it. Claiming to have been combat when they haven’t. Repeating stories they have heard from others claiming it as their own. We have served that is a matter of record. Some of us have served in two militarys too. I served 5 years in a combat outfit and 17 on Navy combatant ships. I have 16 medals and the other crap and I am no hero. Because I came home. Though I died for my country I did not stay dead. The heroes are the corpsmen who save us under fire. They are the pilots who medevac us time and again under fire. They are the comrades who carry us wounded through fire on litters.
    Heroes are the ones who attacked beaches in the South Pacific over and over again while seeing their comrades fall only to do it again on the next beach, taking the next island. I would have served 30 years had I not had a broken neck and back. I was and am still willing to die for my country and what saddens me is watching criminal government etching and signing away our God given birthright in the name of a New World Order driven by parasitic wealthy elites and paid politician traitors and thieves.
    War is on the horizon and that one is truly for your freedom and not for the parasites who shear our hard earned income for their profit and used to buy the votes of the criminally lazy.
    Cruz is Goldman Sachs and the CFR he is the NWO puppet and his wife wears the pants.
    Trump is the lesser of all evils. I wish one day we were allowed to vote for the best of the best and not the least of the worst.

  • mcameron

    why does everyone in the firearms industry feel they need to have “military credentials” ?…..

    how often do you see, “designed by a navy seal”…or “built by former sniper”……?

    no disrespect…..but i dont want a navy seal designing my gun, lube, bullets……..just because you know how to use a weapon, doesnt mean you know how to design a weapon…

    i want the nerdiest engineer designing my weapons….i want someone with a chemical engineering degree designing my lube…..i want a high power shooter designing my ammo…..

    • Pants

      Cause everything is all tacticool nowadays. Honestly it’s no wonder why antigunners get freaked out when there’s a mass of people in full camo firing military style guns. Hell just look at the world of airsoft. Or even video games. Or even police for that matter. There’s this very weird fetish for anything military in this country. About 2 seconds away from seeing parades of troops marching down the street with tanks and MLRS in tow just like what you would see out of some commie country.

    • Mystick

      I call it a marketing gimmick; the exploitation of service to further a commercial goal. Serve with honor in silence, IMO. No need to be a peacock.

  • Frank K

    What’s the big deal….Even the VA don’t give a dam about our military…. Welcome to America!

  • Bert OConnor

    What a damn shame for the employees who just lost their job. The company should have been sold, rebranded, and continued operations. I have no clue as to the quality of their products nor do I care, but I do care that innocents lost their capacity to earn a living through no fault of their own.

  • Frankie D

    It seems he was the sniper that was shooting at Hillary Clinton at the Bosnia airport

  • Doc

    Disgust doesn’t cover it. This jerk’s complete lack of honor, and understanding of honor makes me want tompuke. I’ve patched up enough young Marines to know there is true valor in their hearts. They pump mean green blood and fear only failure. Every Marine and every American should promise their fallen brothers that they will never buy anything from Devil Dog Arms. He does not deserve to profit from the sacrifice of real Marines. Semper Fi, from a angry old Corpsman!

    • Devil_Doc

      Semper fi Doc.. 🙂

  • David

    I saw this on Facebook and did a massive double-take. Didn’t know about the shutting everything down, but I guess it makes sense considering the company may have built part of its reputation on a lie. Makes me feel a bit down that they were a local business and now I know that local people are out of work.

  • Core

    I believe stolen valor is a result of mental illness. IMHO I’ve known many and they are all nuts. Capitalizing on stolen valor should be a crime, just like claiming medals that you never earned etc. I have several medals that don’t fit on my DD214, and several that were never awarded. I know soldiers who earned medals in WWII and never received them. But in the end orders an prove this, and I don’t think a witch hunt is in order, but these people like this guy should be charged to set an example.

  • Very true——-

  • Fruitbat44

    🙁 “Stolen Valour.” I guess it’s one thing to BS with your drinking buddies, who know that you’re just BS’ing them and it’s all in fun, but it’s another to lie in order to establish business creditability. Reading the link attached to the article it looks like Joe Lucianna has not actually broken the law. But it’s still contemptible.

  • dltaylor51

    He should have settled for just being in the coast guard or navy and no one would have bothered to check.

  • Tyler Norona

    I would have been better to say that he was not a Marine but built the company in their honor. Not everyone can be a Marine but it does not take away from the Marines Corps heritage.

  • dlh0

    Evan,
    I am truly sorry to hear your only exposure to the term, ‘Devil Dog’, was one of negativity. Although my tour was in the early 70s and a bit before your time, my experience was quite different. We used the term in many ways, most were positive and a term of respectful address, or part of friendly exchange or even just kidding around.

    Sometimes the term was used to describe a foot locker warrior, much as the term ‘John Wayne’ was used. You know, the kind of guy that spent all day convincing everyone just how bad he was. I suppose if used in that way it could be considered derogatory. However, I do not recall ever having an NCO of any rank use it as a dressing down tool or verbal club. As an e5 sgt I never used it as such. Like other NCOs, I had better, and more descriptive, verbage from which to choose.

    As far as knowledge of USMC history is concerned, my boot experince included a class on Corps history, which covered everything from Tun Tavern to present, including the Devil Dog connection. It sounds as though this was missing from your Corps experience. If such is the case, you truly missed out. Those Drill Instructors who gave that class, which lasted a few days, were quite good at keeping your attention.

    David Hamilton
    USMC 12/71 – 1/76

  • ElderAmbassador

    That’s interesting. I knew a Joe Lucania when we were both members of 1st Pioneers in the 1stMARDIV FMF at Pendleton. He was from Chicago and we frequently went to TJ together back in the early 60’s. Could have been this guy’s Dad.

  • Old Vet

    What is it with these guys?? Sure, I wish I was a hero combat vet, but guess what, I did my time in the Cold War in Germany. Not too much to brag about there. but I did my time and came home. Being a hero is thrust upon you and most of us just “served”.

  • bluesea

    I came of age during the Nam era. Was never in due to having 3 strikes against me. Sole support, Sole surviving son, and 348 for a lottery number. The closest I have ever come to stolen valor, if you call it that, is to post a pic of our country’s flag with Sempre Fi next to it. I have all the respect in the world for our vets and pray for their safe return.

  • Doug73

    I thought that might be the case. It’s just a generational difference. “Devil Dog” used to be a term of endearment, and one of which Marines were proud. That was certainly the case in the early 90’s when I lived with 30 Marines.

    But in today’s new, overly-sensitive military, guys like Evan have lost almost 100 years of tradition, and have decided to be offended by what is actually a proud phrase.

    No wonder this country is getting soft when even our Marines find words to be offended by.

  • durabo

    So, Alpha, Mike-Foxtrot to him.

  • Bill

    What a piece of. Shot, very glad he is out of the company or is that a lie to!

  • Art Nickel

    As of tonight they are up and running.
    Until I am certain that Lucania isn’t getting anything from them, through stock or whatever, I will not be buying anything from DDA.

  • Mystick

    So…. is this guy going to be prosecuted, or will there have to be a complainant?

  • Squirreltakular

    This comments section is the biggest sh*tshow I think I’ve ever seen on TFB.

  • Emilio Zapata

    sounds like somebody was offered a bag of cash, and inside info on a few big movements in the market in return for this story and the dissolution of another firearm company.
    how much would you take to start over, the guy already had the profits $quirreled away

  • Zebra Dun

    Did he in fact state he was a Marine, Former Marine or Ex-Marine?
    If he did and wasn’t there is only one face saving way out, and one punishment if he doesn’t.
    Join the Marines and complete Boot camp, OR be keel hauled from a Current homeward bound long deployment Gator Freighter.
    Semper Fidelis, four years straight up like a shot of whiskey.

  • Team shooter

    I assure you, as an employee and sponsored shooter the company was doing just fine. We had taken the company to SHOT in Jan and more than quadrupled our 2015 sales.

  • Mc Cain

    I feel for all the people who got fired because of this slime ball’s lie.