Top 5 Overrated Guns

Some guns just get way too much attention. In this list, we highlight 5 firearms that get unfairly placed on a pedestal for a multitude of reasons that we lay out for you to consider. You may disagree, and that’s just fine. Also the list is about overrated guns, not necessarily bad ones.

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Thanks to our sponsor Ventura Munitions. Without them TFBTV Would not be possible.

 

Transcript …

– [Voiceover] Warning. The following video may cause undue butt hurt to people who own one or more of the firearms on this list because for some inexplicable reason people get emotionally attached to their purchases and get bear it when someone dislikes something they like.

Enjoy! Hey guys. It’s Alex C. with TFB TV.

The topic of today’s top five is going to be the top five overrated guns.

Know that this is just my list and, as such, these are my choices and you are free to disagree.

So first up is the Mosin–Nagant. AKA the “garbage rod”.

I’m going to use the term garbage rod because Mozin fanboys get all uppity when you pronounce the rifle improperly according to them.

I wish that people could simply embrace this cheap surplus rifle for what it is but it doesn’t seem to be that easy.

You constantly hear people on the internet talk about just how spectacular the garbage rod is and every neck beard worth his salt brags about how spectacularly accurate this pile of garbage is.

Funny enough though, when I’ve challenged people to show me on the range, it generally results in a five inch group and some grumbling about bad ammo or some such.

Because, you know, heaven forbid that $150 gun not perform like a $1000 one.

Even Nathaniel F. in his article for TFB titled “In Defense of the Mozin”, he said, “It’s true that the Mosin-Nagant is not “the best bolt action rifle in the world.

“It may be, in a technical sense, one of the worst.” I once squared off against TFB’s own Miles Vining, a Marine infantryman and firearm instructor, with a Mauser from 1901.

While he used the garbage rod and he owns one, I was able to fire off 10 rounds before he could get through five.

Working the bolt simply feels like dragging a grand piano across a gravel beach and the trigger feels the same.

Of course, when you talk to the garbage rod fanboys, (shudders) they will tell you that theirs functions flawlessly and that I simply haven’t cleaned the cosmoline or some such out of my gun, despite the fact that I’m pretty damn good at that by now and do it all the time (laughs).

Using clips is also ridiculous, as the Russians managed to design a gun that doesn’t automatically eject clips and they must be manually removed.

This is how it’s supposed to work.

Shown here is a Mauser.

This is how the garbage rod works.

But, you know, for every good Russian small arm, there are five or six that are horrendous.

Also, don’t forget how the bolt handle and head are separate pieces as opposed to the Mauser.

Way to go, Sergei.

So the old garbage rod is loved by many because it’s cheap now.

But I pray for the day when it is actually accurately compared against its peers, as only then will it be judged according to its merits, of which there are very few.

So next up, we have the German G43 self-loading rifle.

People have a strange tendency to put anything from World War II that’s German on a pedestal, despite how good or bad it actually is.

While the Germans certainly have produced some innovative small arms over the years, consider that the crude, stamped Sturmgewehr was their best auto-loading rifle of the war.

They produced some real stinkers, including the G41Walther and the G41 Mauser and the well-regarded, for some reason, G43.

The G43 uses a fragile locking system with a reputation for cracking flaps.

Parts are usually poorly heat-treated, too, and this results in breakages throughout the system.

The rifles are so over-gassed that they crack bolt carriers and bolt sleeves, too.

In fact, I know a guy who was shooting his G43 when the carrier exploded in his face and he might not be able to see today if it were not for his eye protection.

The guns are prone to snapping actuator rods, as well, and what you didn’t seen in our Run and Gun video was Patrick’s run, where he was shooting and the actuator snapped at the wrist, requiring me to send it off to a specialist to have a new one fitted and clearanced to prevent it from happening again.

I mean, you know these guns are crummy and maintenance-intensive when they are obscure and uncommon, yet multiple gunsmiths make their living working on them exclusively.

So I guess it’s kinda like the RX-7 of guns.

Anyways, the safety is susceptible to rendering the gun inoperable and its location is pathetic.

They are also brittle guns and two companies specialize in making parts to try and keep them from breaking by restricting the gas system.

The ergonomics are terrible, loading with stripper clips is horrendous, and, while users were issued with two extra mags, they were also issued with stripper clips.

My favorite is when someone chimes in with, Better than Garand, or some such.

When you ask why, they have no logical retort and their username is usually something that has “gaming” or “airsoft” in it.

I wish I was kidding.

But hey, it’s German and from World War II, so it has to be the best.

So next we have a gun that I actually quite like but that doesn’t mean it isn’t overrated.

This is the ArmaLite AR-180, the civilian version of the select-fire AR-18.

Of course, you can’t mention the AR-180 without some wise-ass chiming in with, Better than AR-15 or We should’ve adopted this instead.

And you can’t even mention it without someone saying, I wish they would reproduce these with more modern materials.

And then you show them the AR-180B that was literally what they just described, and it flopped.

Horribly.

So it’s obvious that people these on a pedestal, despite the fact that they flopped twice and I’m not quite sure why people do this.

The AR-18 was literally designed with licensed production to poorer, less advanced countries in mind, who did not have the means to produce more complex designs that required a lot of milling.

Tolerances are relatively loose, the guns are ugly as sin, the stamped and welded construction makes them look like a Max Max prop reject, and still you might think the rifle is AK simple in its disassembly, but it isn’t.

There are more small bits and pieces to lose on an AR-18 than an AR-15.

And there is even a non-captive takedown pin.

The folding stock is a complete joke and the hinge is notorious for breaking.

Hell, it even feels flimsier than Bill Cosby’s morals.

Magazines are rare and expensive and not interchangeable with AR-15 M16 mags, which really sucks.

Performance is often exaggerated, too.

The British government tested it and found that it performed poorly in mud and sand and the US government tested it multiple times at Aberdeen, deeming it unsatisfactory each time.

So the AR-180 was designed to sell to nations who could not afford or produce AR-15s, but remember, the internet tells you that it’s better.

Here’s one that’s going to piss everyone off but whatever.

This is the IWI Tavor. The worst bullpup in production.

If you like being gassed in the face, especially when running suppressed, then the Tavor is for you.

While the AUG is priced the same, remember that the AUG has pesky features like the ability to quickly remove the barrel for cleaning that you might not want.

Also, the Tavor features an easily bumped magazine release for tactically, accidentally removing your ammunition feeding device.

But IWI has great marketing and will get you to buy into the hype.

A mistake I made and regret terribly.

I have most of the major bullpups on the market and even some obscure ones, and the Tavor is the worst by a long shot.

The gun is so rear heavy that it’s ridiculous.

Controls are poor, ergonomics are terrible, and the guns aesthetics were designed before the internal workings.

Call me crazy but that seems backwards as hell.

Don’t forget little things like the omission of adjustable gas.

The heat is retained inside like crazy, the worst, most unnatural balance, ever, and the fact that nothing properly co-witnesses with it.

Oh, I also forgot the incredibly mushy trigger.

This one is going to piss off Tavor owners, especially those that haven’t shot an AUG or FS2000, but I don’t really care.

It sucks and I wish I could trade it in for another Galil.

So, lastly, we’re going to finish off with a slice of Americana.

Yep. This is the American Thompson submachine gun.

This is another gun I like a lot, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t overrated.

In the 19-teens, the Thompson would’ve been the business.

Hell, I would argue that even in the 1920’s and maybe in the early 30’s the M1928s were still pretty relevant.

Then you realize they served on into the 1960’s.

It’s hard for me to explain just how unbelievably heavy the Thompson is, so I’ll just show you.

Here it is in ‘Merican units.

And here it is for countries that have not put a flag on the moon.

So yeah, it’s heavier than a milled RPK-74 and it’s a blowback operated, pistol caliber gun.

I can’t say that I don’t enjoy shooting the Thompson because I do.

But on semi, the heavy mass of the bolt carrier, well, bolt going forward, doesn’t do you any favors in the accuracy department, the cyclic rate is also too damn high, and even people in the 1920’s complained about this and they lowered the rate for the 1928 model.

The M1A1’s were cheaper but the firing pin is fixed, allowing out of battery detonations to happen easier.

The sights, also, like a damn Sten gun, are not adjustable.

So why is it overrated? I don’t know. Romanticism, I guess? In Nathaniel’s “Weight Omnibus” series of articles he posted awhile back, several commenters refused to believe or even acknowledge that the weight of the Thompson was any kind of hindrance to the men who carried them, and I certainly call shenanigans on that nonsense.

I’ve also heard where people refer to the “high levels of craftsmanship” (laughing) that the M1A1 has over its peers which makes me wonder if the person behind their keyboard has ever even seen an M1A1.

Thompsons are reliable and they certainly don’t suck.

But damn if I wouldn’t rather carry just about any other small arm that was available to me in World War II.

Thanks for sitting through my long, drawn out, opinionated, and, presumably, disagreeable rant.

I’m sure owners of these firearms will go ahead and mash that dislike button, but I’m surprisingly okay with that.

Big thanks to Ventura Munitions for making our videos possible, the best place to buy ammunition online.

And a big thanks to you guys for watching.

See ya next time, if I didn’t piss you off.

 


Alex C.

Alex is a Senior Writer for The Firearm Blog and Director of TFBTV. A native Texan with a penchant for gun collecting combined with a degree in History from Baylor University have contributed to a passion for both early and modern firearms. You can reach Alex at acapps@gocapps.com.


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  • Rusty S.

    Should I buy stock in consolidated torch and pitchfork right now?

  • Drew Coleman

    I’d be interested to hear your opinions on the X95. It fixes the mag release issue, and supposedly has an improved trigger.

    • I very much look forward to trying it out. I have high hopes for sure.

      • It solved the mag issue, but didn’t impress me much, honestly.

        Still rather’d have an AUG.

      • JumpIf NotZero

        So, you’ve learned no lesson then? Ah bullpups… Where fantasy never meets reality.

        • I just liked a JINZO post. What have I done.

          • Some Guy

            Replaced all of your clothing with ripstop nylon and cobra buckles and all of your handguns with glock brand glocks?

          • Paul White

            In penance you have to send all your loyal readers a crate of 556 ammo

      • Kyle

        Since you actually own them all apparently, how would you rank them. Obviously the Tavor is dead last in the bullpup world lol but how do the rest of the bullpups rank in your opinion?

        • Scott P

          Dead last? Really? I can think of several that are way worse than the Tavor including the FS2000 which AFAIK they don’t even sell at all unlike the former which is way more popular.

          Also three things the Tavor has over the AUG, better trigger upgrades and can shoot steel ammo (even though I no longer shoot steel-cased .223 it is nice to have the option out of desperation that the AUG lacks), and better aftermarket support.

          • Is it official that the AUG can’t shoot steel case ammo?

          • iksnilol

            Why can’t AUG shoot steel case?

          • James

            Your 100% wrong, AUGs shoot steel ammo no problem

      • Bub

        A few months back I got to handle and shoot a X95 with fun switch. The X95 fixes some of the short comings of the Tavor, but I’m in the wait and see camp. Plus for the cost you can pick up a top tier AR.

  • TheNotoriousIUD

    What about the SKS? Ive had a few friends swear by them but I never saw anything impressive on the range.

    My father said he carried a Thompson for a bit in Vietnam but traded it due to the weight of the gun and ammo load. Said it was reliable in jungle conditions though.

    • The_Champ

      My Chinese SKS (military production, not commercial) is a pretty solid rifle. Not pretty, and a little rough around the edges but built strong where it needs to be. Accuracy is lacklustre but acceptable. Some surprisingly nice features, like a chrome lined barrel. And of all the ammo I’ve ever fed it, don’t recall it ever jamming. I should add that the stripper clips actually work quick and smooth, unlike many other designs that tend to be a little sticky and finicky.

      • The_Champ

        I should add that like my other ‘red’ rifles, my M44 Mosin and my SVT-40, the trigger is god awful.

        Price is definitely a draw for the SKS though. Ten years ago the brand new rifle cost me $150 CDN, and surplus 7.62 is the cheapest centerfire ammo around. Big plus there.

        Really I do believe the SKS is a stout and capable combat rifle.

    • westerly1

      I can’t say I’ve ever heard anyone rave about how awesome the SKS. At least not outside the context of shooting a rifle for cheap.

    • Paul White

      they made a name for themselves when you could buy a crate for 100 bucks a rifle. Now those days are long gun and they’re more like 400 bucks for anything in decent shape…and man they suffer for that in comparison.

  • Tyler McCommon

    Neither of my Mosin’s shoot much better than minute of a man and have bolts so rough you have to slap it around like a Russian mail order bride for it to work.

    Unlike my Enfields that shoot 1~3 MOA and have bolts that are as smooth as butter.

    • DB

      Throttle cure for the “Moist Nugget” is to simply chain a mallet to it when you go out wrestling, I mean shooting it to cycle the bolt! Cheap and easy! And your sore, bruised up hand will feel better in a few days, from trying to beat the bolt into submission before you remember you brought your mallet! Torn up more mallets that way! Do you figure in the cost of mallets when determining cost per round?

      • DB

        Damn auto correct! Works like a NAGANT bolt!

        • Kivaari

          Nagant was the magazine used with the interrupter feature. The bolt was the Mosin part. The Nagant factory made millions by selling the stripper clips.

      • Tyler McCommon

        Yeah every few months I go… “Hey let me take out the Mosin”. And then I have a sore shoulder and a bruised hand. Then I immensely regret it. But at least my pocket book feels fine unlike my Lee Enfield that makes a cash register sound with every shot.

        • Kivaari

          Remember it is the “MO-seen Nah-gone”. Not those Mozins nag-ants

  • Hensley Beuron Garlington

    Oh, man. The Tavor surprised me there. I will say, I’m glad I haven’t been able to afford one yet and I’ve had my eyes on a Desert Tech MDR since they were announced years ago. After reading the opinions above, and especially because the entire point of a bullpup for me is less over all length and balance, especially suppressed, I hope I’m glad I will have waited.

  • Darkpr0

    Can confirm that G43s are self-destructive. Mine snapped the piece of metal that the bolt carrier foot acts upon rendering the gun perma-locked. Fixing that malf makes a case separation in an F2000 seem like a walk in the park.

    Edit: it was fixed. The gun is fireable again, after much work. It’s still not getting fired.

  • Tim U

    Haven’t shot the Tavor, but feeling it at the local store and dry firing it, I don’t mind it all that much. The trigger definitely needs improvement but I don’t think I would accidentally release the mag.

    Don’t know either way about the gas issue.

    • cwp

      Maybe they’ve improved it, but I found the stock Tavor trigger to be pretty bad. It’s not the worst trigger ever made and probably not even the worst trigger I’ve ever shot, but it’s in dire need of improvement. Also, Alex only mentioned this tangentially, but the integrated iron sights suck.

      The gas issue is most evident if you run the Tavor suppressed. Unsuppressed, I haven’t found it to be a big deal. Yes, you can get aftermarket ejection port covers that supposedly cure that problem, but there’s a limit to how much I’m willing to spend to fix problems that should not have been an issue to start with on a $2,000 rifle.

      At the end of the day the Tavor offers some advantages and pays for them with some disadvantages. I don’t think it’s as bad as it’s made out to be here, but it’s not an Israeli wonder weapon that will descend from the heavens and make the world a joyous place, either.

  • Uniform223

    nyet!! The Mosin Nagant is the best bolt action in the world! It was used by the legendary father of sniping!!

    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/swWoHZPDuu8/maxresdefault.jpg

    • nadnerbus

      Way back in the day, after battling this SOB for like three days and losing ever time, I found out later that you can just wait him out (or advance the PS2 clock) and he dies of old age lol

      • Uniform223

        lol. that is the cheaters way out. Real operators either chase him down with the tranq gun or actually try to go head to head in a sniper duel.

    • Denis

      Lmao, I thought you where going a different direction there, I am yet to find any tranquilizer rounds for my Nagant

      • Uniform223

        If I remember correctly you have to get them off of soldiers.

  • Uniform223

    This was so fun to watch 😀

  • Bill

    Slow news day?

    How about the Colt SAA: single action only, slow to load and unload, can’t be safely carried fully loaded with a round under the hammer, ergos inhibit recoil control, mediocre sights.

    Context is everything.

    • NDS

      The SAA is from 1873.

      • Bill

        The Mosin dates to the 1890s.

        • ostiariusalpha

          Which is nearly two decades after the SAA was created. The Colt was still a viable weapon well into the 1890’s, whereas the Mosin-Nagant had already become a garbage rod less than a decade after its introduction.

          • Bill

            That’s cool, I don’t have or shoot either. But I wouldn’t want to catch a bullet from either, either.

            It also occurs to me that, sort of like dog years in reverse, a couple of decades is nearly nothing when it comes to firearms. The two GLOCKs I own were literally a couple of the first off the boat in their model lines and the AR’s I got in the 80s are largely identical to the ones I’ve gotten more recently, albeit the newer guns have more doodads. Quantum leaps in firearms development are slow in coming, but I still wish that I had bought a Dardick and a Gyrojet back in the day, just because.

          • Gatsworth

            The S&W model 3 was around first. Although the SAA is more of a tank.

        • Paul White

          and was still mediocre at best compared to contemporary designs (and used far too long, although given the state of Russia from the early 1900s on you can understand why).

    • Mark

      Slow news day?

      How about the Kentucky Long Rifle: flintlock, long and heavy, uses black powder, takes 50 seconds to reload.

      Context is everything.

      • Bill

        And it killed plenty of people. And bars.

    • Uncle Festet

      The SAA is like a classic car. Great looks and performance (for its time) make them cool.

      But, everyone knows a modern DOHC fuel injected engine will outperform an old small block with 4 bbl cards.

  • Cal.Bar

    Talk about first world problems. The cyclic rate on my $20,000 NFA full auto Thompson is too high. Cry me a river. (lol) Alex – perhaps we can write to UNICEF for you.

    • Bjørn Vermo

      Both the Thompson and Alex seem to be from the second world…

      • Scott P

        That would be Russia but nice try.

        • Bjørn Vermo

          Russia is first world. First world is what was familiar to renaissance Europeans. Second world was discovered by Columbus.

    • iksnilol

      Eh, it was a complaint when it was new as well.

      No Thompson is worth 20k USD, unless the value is artificially inflated.

      • Alex A.

        In the United States, they are meeting and exceeding that price regularly these days due to the fact that no new machine guns can be produced and registered for civilian sale.

        • iksnilol

          That’s true.

          I was thinking more along the lines of from a mechanical perspective.

          • Alex A.

            According to The Ultimate Thompson Book, Savage estimated in 1942 that it cost them $23.44 ($340.69 today) to make the M1 Thompson. This broke down as $4.36 ($63.37 today) for materials, $6.94 ($100.87 today) for labor, and 175% markup for overhead. Here’s where the price starts climbing. The contract price agreed to between Savage and Auto-Ordnance was $36.37 ($528.63 today), giving Savage a $12.93 ($187.93 today) profit per gun. Auto-Ordnance then sold the guns to the government for the price of $43.00 ($624.99 today) per gun. So, the final purchase price of the Thompson is kind of the end result of war profiteering as much as it was the result of the design and materials used to make it.

  • G0rdon_Fr33man

    …units for countries who haven´t put a flag on the moon… I lolled.

    • MrEllis

      The Liberian Space Program has a website…

    • Kyle

      I laughed my ass off at that one. I will remember it for future use.

      • iksnilol

        The irony is that NASA uses metric (at least halfway).

        • Vitor Roma

          Any scientifcally rigorous project/research will use the metric system.

          • iksnilol

            Of course, nobody is stupid enough to use feet and pounds for something important… I really hope nobody is that stupid at least.

          • Joshua Knott

            Sadly yes, but we do use inches and pounds to clarify torque values on tools

        • parabellum

          NASA; isn’t that some kind of social outreach program for downtrodden Muzzies? How many meters is the blast radius of a 6 kilogram bomb vest?

    • randomswede

      Don’t worry, we laugh too; every time we see you do math when you have a measurement in feet and need yards or pounds and need ounces etc.

      On a more-information-than-humor side of things: We used to not be metric here in Sweden as well, we just changed over in essentially pre industrial times, as luck would have it.

      • G0rdon_Fr33man

        I´m Norwegian. I Stoll thought it was funny.

        • randomswede

          As did I; but I wouldn’t pass up a chance for humor or pointing out that simpler is better when no precision is lost. I’m even a proponent of .beat timekeeping as it’s decimal. ; )

    • FarmerB

      Yeah – Google “Mars Climate Orbiter” and see how Imperial units worked on Mars.

      • gunsandrockets

        Funny how the great Mars demon which so famously eats spacecraft seems to have a particular taste for Soviet/Russian spacecraft. Whereas the NASA success rate is exceedingly high.

        • FarmerB

          Sorry? Which discussion are you having? Mars Climate Orbiter was a NASA mission, I don’t believe any other Mars missions have been lost to unit conversion errors.

          • ostiariusalpha

            Conversion errors aren’t the only way to botch a Mars mission, as attested by Mars-1, Zond-2, Kosmos-419, Mars-3, Mars-4, Mars-7, Phobos-1, Phobos-2, and Mars-8.

          • gunsandrockets

            The failure was due to inadequate funding. The same failure which doomed the Mars Polar Lander.

          • gunsandrockets
  • TJbrena

    I always thought the 1911 was overrated in the same way the Beatles are. Sure, it’s innovative and pretty damn good, but people who treat it as the be-all, end-all, indisputable king of semi-automatic pistols are just as bad as people who quote John Lennon in their high school yearbooks.

    • TheNotoriousIUD

      The difference the 1911 has a legit argument.

      And John Lennon really didnt like .38’s.

      • Vhyrus

        They loved him to death though.

        Too soon?

      • desertcelt

        Yoyo was never fond of it either

    • Kivaari

      Yup!!! The two American guns that are over rated are the M1903 and M1911. Cult worship gets in the way of reality.

    • GUNxSPECTRE

      Pretty much. The 1911 has a cult that’s gotten to be really obnoxious.
      Now I’m not saying that it isn’t a great gun. It has historical significance, aesthetics, and qualities that make it a joy to shoot.
      But there are so many objectively better .45 ACP pistols out on the market right now. Weight, capacity, reliability. And me personally, anybody who thinks that 7+1 is enough “to kill anything that moves” has never actually been in a gunfight. It’s pretty irresponsible, but hey, it’s their life and survival they’re putting a handicap on.

      I’m 99% sure that the ghost of John Moses Browning would choose a FNX-45 Tactical or a Glock 21 over a 1911. Simply because I think that the dude was smart and practical.

      I’m still looking for an idiot who brings a Colt Single Action Army to a self-defense pistol course, because I want a laugh.

      • 3331

        that depends on what you want to do with the gun. There are not many pistols out there which can be shot as fast and accurately as a 1911 or 2011.

        • iksnilol

          Literally any pistol made by CZ or SIG.

          • hANNABONE

            totally agree, as I own both. P220 Elite & 75B &P01…nothing is better or more accurate.

          • iksnilol

            Well, a 1911 might be… if you sink a couple of grand more into it.

            Those race guns are smooth, but not worth it IMO.

          • JoelM

            You forgot the CZ52… the elephant man of the CZ family.

      • Bill

        Capacity is not a substitute for speed, accuracy and power. The 1911 also has egos that fit many people far better than a double stack .45 like the GLOCK 21.

        ALL guns have their cults, GLOCK, CZ, SIG, even KelTec

        • iksnilol

          Uh, .45 acp is going to be slow by virtue of being .45 acp. Both in regards to actual projectile velocity and in regards to handling.

          “power” is a meaningless terms. Pistols are pistols (IE pathetically weak) and rifles are rifles.

          • Bill

            Regarding “power,” I was thinking in terms of Cooper’s triad – a .45 ACP is more “powerful” than a .38 Special or .25 ACP. A pistol is what you use to fight your way to the rifle you would have brought if you knew there was going to be a gunfight.

          • The Brigadier

            Try a .357 or .44 magnum with a wheel full of full power rounds. “You feel lucky punk?”

        • john huscio

          There’s no difference in power between two pistols shooting the same round. I’d even wager to say the g21 packs twice as much “power” on capacity alone. Speed? Not much difference between a 1911 and a Glock 30 when magdumping…cept the 1911 might be a little more stable and the g30 will be shooting longer….accuracy? Ive found the Glock 30 to be as accurate as any of the 1911s I’ve shot (ruger, rock island, Sig, nighthawk) especially with an aftermarket stainless guiderod.

          • Paul Joly

            Yep, guiderod and fireclean.

      • Uniform223

        “I’m still looking for an idiot who brings a Colt Single Action Army to a self-defense pistol course, because I want a laugh.”

        Its the greatest hand gun ever made. 6 bullets… more than enough to kill anything that moves.

        https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5c/Revolver_Ocelot.png

      • Paul White

        I know I want to try bringing a SAA to a self defense course now, strictly because of your comment. I’m curious how well/poorly it would go

        • Bill

          I believe either Clint Smith or Gunsite offered such a class. Seriously, anything that launches a bullet can be a viable self-defense weapon in the hands of a skilled user. I’m by no means a skilled user of my Blackhawks, and while they wouldn’t be my first choice going up against a street hood with a Raven or Jennings, I think I could hold my own, if for no other reason than I can line up sights and manage a trigger, plus hey, .45 Long Colt brings the thump.

    • Mark

      The 1911 may be overhyped ONLY because of the high level of fanboyism it has. I don’t know if you have one but my 1911(made in 1913) is quite nice. The grip angle, the sights, the comfort in pointing and enjoyable .45ACP round just still offer a great package. Also it’s hard to dis the 1911 since so many of its technical features are used in modern firearms today.

      The only fair criticisms of the 1911 are the magazine capacity and slightly more complicated disassembly. Both are easily forgiven in light of what it still offers for a pistol that is over 100 years old.

    • Tom

      You mean, happiness is NOT a warm gun?

      • TJbrena

        It’s one if the many incarnations of happiness.

  • JumpIf NotZero

    Alex, did someone ask you to slow down your speech? The entire video seemed like it was intentionally slow talk. Weird compared to your other videos that for all the issues I can find, at you sound much more normal.

    • BobinMI

      He is trying to speak to Mosin fan boy’s.

      • mosinman

        RIFLE IS FINE CYKA

    • DW

      Salt is best harvested slowly…i guess?

    • nadnerbus

      He had just gotten out of a hot tub after smoking a bowl.

  • Green Hell

    Never heard anyone overrating G43 before, i think it was a general consensus that it was a bad wartime SVT knockoff, even amongst the Germans themselves. Mosin is a cheap and powerful long rage boomstick, i can’t see a single problem to complain about it, for it’s price and age. Don’t know anything about AR-180 other than it’s gas system used in most of the modern 5.56 rifles. Never liked the look of Tavor as much as AUG and F2000, but i admire most of it’s ergonomical features, ecsept the mag release. And Thompson is one of the first largely produced and adopted handheld automatic weapons, most of it’s issues are easily forgivable for it’s time, and also let’s not forget that it’s still the most beautiful gun in the world.
    What i would add to this list myself is both M1991 and .45, not in historical contecst, but as what many people still consider a legit modern pistol and cartrige. They are not.
    Also, don’t really get why people are still selling, bying, adopting and developing pump action shotguns and bolt action rifles for any reasons other than a price.

    • Kivaari

      Pump shotguns are reliable with most loads and bolt actions for hunting, especially long range magnums.

    • Kivaari

      Forty years ago I bought a G43 for store inventory. An old friend had to have it. We commented that it was the only one we had ever seen with the little dust cover at the rear of the bolt. In 5 minutes of handling, it simply broke, so it WAS like all the others we had seen.

    • Tassiebush

      For bolt actions you could say weight, primary extraction, ability to handle reduced load or different length cases and in many cases accuracy is an area of advantage albeit there is no longer a monopoly on it. Then there’s the sheer range of cartridges to choose from. Semis have improved in this regard but aren’t by any means in parity with bolt guns. The gap is closing but it’s definitely still there.

      • Green Hell

        Once again, speaking from my Russian perspective, pretty much a decade after the end of the WW2, after our army adopted the SVD and there was no need to go back to using manual bolt action rifles for the next half a century – it was (and still is) perfectly capable for any possible military sniper and marksman role, while still being light and greatly reliable weapon. Even during Afghanistan war full of mountains and long miles of plain sights, there were no complaints about it’s long ranged performance. So, I’d rather say the “gap” isn’t closing, it has been pretty much closed back in 1963.

        • Tassiebush

          In a military context I would tend to agree. In a civilian context those other factors and action size and balance still present a gap. An ever closing gap where ownership is allowed.

        • iksnilol

          I like the SVD. Is the definiton of a “proper rifle” for me.

          Still, why was the SV-98 made?

          • Green Hell

            Good question, because i don’t think it was even adopted, you are probably more likely to find AWM or Sako in Rissian SF than this thing. My guess is, the reason was the 90’s and Russian gun factories trying to survive in new capitalistic economics, like many weapons of the time SV98 was probably intended for exports. I don’t think the Army still have any need in replacng the SVD’s, there are only plans for picatiny rails modernisation (SVDM).

          • Evan

            The SV-98 was made to fit the role of a “true” Sniper rifle; usually it’s issued to Special Forces.
            To backtrack a bit, in WWII/Soviet doctrine, the Russian Sniper was a squad-level unit, more akin to a “Designated Marksman” or “Sharpshooter” today. Russian Military history is full of examples like this, utilizing Russia’s large population to advantage.
            Secondly, after the revolution that was the AK-47 and AKM, Russia adopted the SVD in the early 60s, and organized the sniper at the platoon level; and working in 2-man teams, aligning more with Western sniper ideology but still leaning more towards the western idea of a “designated marksman”.
            The SVD is plenty accurate; and although it is a semi-auto rifle, it was never really intended to be fired rapidly. The barrel profile is thin, to save on weight and improve handling. This fit with the Soviet doctrine of dynamic battlefields, and having snipers organized into infantry units at the platoon level and hitting opposing leaders/officers, “high value targets”, and or targets of opportunity. In the 1970s, the twist rate was tightened, actually hurting general accuracy with the rifle, but allowed a wider selection of ammo, including Armor Piercing Incendiary.
            And again, fitting Soviet/Russian doctrine, some emphasis was placed on cost and ease of production.

    • Porty1119

      Have you ever shot a semiautomatic shotgun?
      If you have, I think you’ll understand why pumps are still so popular. Mechanism fouling, complicated manual of arms, more and more intricate parts…they’re a field-use nightmare; I wouldn’t carry an auto. There is a reason that only a few semiauto shotguns are issued for military and police use.

      • Green Hell

        Well, I have a Vepr-12. In Russia, along with Saiga-12-30 it’s still the most popular civilian weapon. If you are a serious hunter, and care about the weight and bulk, you just get a double barrel or some light tube-fed semi-auto like Berkas or Benelli, perfectly good and reliable for it’s purposes. Pump-actions are just getting lost on the market, no one really understands their point, and so don’t I. After all, weapons are an investment, why not just add 100-200$ for a better one?

        • iksnilol

          Well, a pump shotgun is going to be lighter than a VEPR-12 or Saiga.

          • Green Hell

            But not lighter than most of the modern tube-fed semi-auto’s, like Benelli M2, for example.

    • iksnilol

      Uh. Not sure if troll or serious.

      -Bolt actions will always be shorter than semi autos. Allowing you to either have a longer barrel for the same length, or a shorter OAL if going with the same barrel length. They will also be lighter. Get a .223 micro Mauser with a 16 inch pencil barrel and compare it to an AR with a pencil barrel.
      -Making a bolt action accurate is way easier than a semi auto. A 500 dollar bolt action is comparable to a 1500-2000 semi auto (in regards to mechanical accuracy). Which kinda shows my point of how much work it is to make a semi auto the more accurate.
      -Bolt actions are made in waaaaay more calibers.
      -Easier to run suppressed.

      Regarding pump shotguns; knowing the wide variety of shotgun ammo: Good luck making a semi auto shotgun run them all reliably.

  • jam

    Pretty much agree with your whole list. I would have thrown in the Springfield xd. I’ve only shot a semi Thompson but found it to be an ergonomic nightmare. Stock is way to long and the drop in comb is very uncomfortable. clearing malfunctions which was often with the auto ordinance produced variant required 3 hands and the top cocking handle really doesnt offer enough meat. About the only pro I found was the sheer mass of the weapon made the 45 shoot extremely soft.

  • mosinman

    Mosin @ number 5

  • Vhyrus

    As the local tavor fanboy it is my duty to get pissed and rant about how wrong you are. Yes, the stock trigger sucks… If you don’t take the five minutes to pop one pin put of the trigger pack and halve the weight. Or just buy a geissele, since it’s the only bullpup with aftermarket support. The barrel doesn’t easily come out…. Okay, so it’s like 97% of every rifle ever made? And how come I got mine to cowitness with both stock sights and magpul buis (no not at the same time)? Btw, rear heavy is a feature not a bug. So, other than the mag release, which honestly is not that bad when you get used to it, what exactly are you talking about? You know what I like? Using pmags. Try that in a fs2000 and tell me how long it took you to unjam your gun.

    And yes, my neck beard is amazing.

    • Denis

      Tavor fan here also, it was the first modern rifle I purchased. I thought long and hard made a list of pros and cons to me the pros of the tavor out weight the pros of the fs2000, AUG, and high end ar15s it has an “easy”change barrel caliber conversation kits, gas problems and trigger issues have been solved by the aftermarket which is next to non existent on the other bullpups. I prefer the large mag release, I have never accidentally bumped it, not saying it couldn’t happen but it would be very difficult to have happen.i also prefer the weight to the rear most of the weight of the rifle is supported by my shoulder I can easily shoot one handed and hit a target at 100 yards or more. Co witnessing is a bitch but can be done. Keep in mind the backup sights are truly ment only as backups. The tavor isn’t perfect, the recoil is harder than an AR it doesn’t play well with bi pods, it isn’t as accurate as A free floated ar of the same price point. But of I had to go to war the tavor would be my weapon of choice.

      • Kivaari

        The AR 15 has a quick change barrel system. Just keep your complete upper in your other caliber handy. A complete AR upper has to cost less than a TAVOR barrel. That’s easy to go to .300 Blk. since you can use the same BCG and magazine. I still have not found why anyone but a hobbyist would want a change barrel rifle. In Europe there may be value since the permits systems sometimes allow for fewer actions with assorted tubes.

        • Denis

          The upper is easily 2/3 the cost of a new rifle for an Ar, so why not just buy another lower for 150 bucks and have two rifles. yes they do make quick change ar barrels systems but that won’t come on your typical ar. As for the cost comparing you can find ars in the Tavors price range lwrc, pws, ect their uppers all cost more than a tavor barrel (500 dollars) which is a little expensive for just a barrel. I don’t plan on taking the barrel off my tavor, unless I would go to 300blk for hunting, but I have other rifles for that role.

          • Kivaari

            An upper without needing another BCG isn’t too bad. Personally, if I want another caliber, I would buy or build a whole gun. I’ve been getting Bushmaster lowers for $50. I always end up building another gun if I have a lower sitting around. I do not need another one, just sucking up money to complete.

    • Dan Atwater

      The AUG has aftermarket support, too.

  • TDog

    Agree that the Tavor is waay overrated. Fired it on a few occasions and it never got better in my opinion.

    • Steve

      Incredibly overrated…

      After this video, I now see it as the AR-180 to the AUG. I first held one at SHOT prior to release and absolutely hated the (lack of) ergonomics. The gun just felt cheap…

      • TDog

        Cheap and heavy in all the wrong places. Heavy by itself is fine, especially with bullpups, but most of them tend to have a center of gravity above the grip. The Tavor’s center of gravity is towards the rear, which in my opinion makes it a pain in the neck to deal with, more so than conventional layout weapons that tend to be more forward heavy.

      • Scott P

        Shows how ignorant you are of the Tavor only accepting what you are fed at face value. I am no fan-boy but a lot of those who hate on the Tavor are ignorant especially that it is used by a lot of countries and their special forces as well (a common tactic to use in arguments as the be all, end all of how good it is when arguing how good something is), not just Israel, unlike the AR-180 which no one wanted.

        Angola, Azerbaijan, Brazil, Cameroon, Chad, Chile, Colombia, Ethiopia, Georgia, Guatemala, Honduras, India, Macedonia, Mexico, Nepal, Nigeria, Peru, Philippines, Portugal, Thailand, Turkey, Ukraine, Vietnam, and even the Harrisburg Capitol Police.

        • iksnilol

          Well, AK has been used by basically everyone.

          Don’t see any arguments about it being the best/most advancy rifle made.

          • cwp

            Most advanced, no, but you can’t throw a rock on the internet without hitting someone who thinks that the AK is in fact the best rifle ever made.

          • iksnilol

            You missed my argument a bit.

            My argument is basically: Why brag about Tavor resume then crap on AK (which has an even better resume)?

  • Martin Grønsdal

    “If you like being gassed in the face, especially when running suppressed, then the Tavor is for you.” – said about an Israeli rifle. Delicate 😉

    • Vhyrus

      What he should have said was “I bought a 1600 dollar rifle and a thousand dollar suppressor but I’m too cheap to buy a 50 dollar gasketed chamber cover.”

      • Laserbait

        Better question, why wasn’t it on the $1600 rifle in the first place? It’s that, and the Tavors craptastic trigger that I bought the RDB over the Tavor. And the Tavor still doesn’t have an adjustable gas system. The Tavor is way overpriced for what you’re getting.

        • Vhyrus

          I could talk about modifying a gun and expecting it to work the same as before, but I’m still in shock over someone finding a rdb for sale.

          • Laserbait

            And it was only $1200 too, NIB! I found it off of Armslist at a gunshop in Washington. Once they get into full swing production with the 1:7″ twist barrels, I expect that they’re going to be selling in the $1000 range.

        • Vitor Roma

          Damn, you got an RDB? Please, give your impressions.

          • Laserbait

            It’s great, and very comfortable to shoot and hold up on target for longer duration with less fatigue. Its stock trigger is really good, superior to the ALG AR15 trigger (which is better than any of the stock AR15 triggers I have tried), but not as good as a JP or Geissele trigger. I love the bottom eject, it was easy to make a simple brass catcher using a bent coat hanger and fabric mesh. I have not had a chance to shoot at anything over 100 yards, but I was able to keep it in about a 2″ group routinely using my reloaded plinking ammo (I have the 1:9″ twist barrel). For me, it’s not a bench gun, and I just use it for fun run-and-gunning. I have not had a problem with the mag release dropping mags accidentally. Suppressed (I have an Omega 762) it’s great because the gas can be turned down, and the minimal excess gas wafts out of the ejection port, and not blown into my face. The only thing that takes a bit of getting used to is the placement of the safety, if it was put about 1/3″ forward, it’d be better for my hands. For the price, and its reliability (never had a problem feeding, firing or ejecting, once the gas was set), there is really no other bullpup that can touch it. Least of all, cleaning it is simple, and easy.

          • iksnilol

            Could you write a review for TFB?

          • The thing I really didn’t like about the RDB’s trigger is that it didn’t telegraph the difference between its takeup and pull. So you’re just pulling straight back, and there’s little resistance, then the gun goes off.

            I dunno, maybe it’s just me being weird about triggers, but I didn’t like it.

          • ostiariusalpha

            I’m with you on crisp triggers, but it’s an aesthetic thing. A lot of competition shooters prefer that smooth pull through on their triggers.

          • Laserbait

            Agreed, if you’re used to a good two stage trigger in your rifles, the RDB trigger will be a let down. But, compared to other stock triggers in most semi autos, I think it’s above average, and much better than any bullpup on the market currently.

      • Zachary marrs

        A $1600 rifle that is pretty bad in stock form, and once you fix a few of its issues, you would have at least $2000 invested

        Lots of the tavors problems could have been remedied at the factory

      • Jack

        I RTVed my stock cover. No gas face. One of my favorite rifles after the geissele trigger.

      • Paul White

        If I have to add mods to a gun to make it work right that’s a ding on it. And at 1600 dollars its a hell of a ding.

    • nadnerbus

      I got it, and we are both going to hell.

    • M

      The funny thing is that the gas-in-the-face problem is very easily remediated by duct tape over the chamber cover or a 20 cent O ring. Dunno why they didn’t include it in the first place

  • I can’t disagree with your choices. I never could figure why some on the list are loved like the TSMG and mosin.

    • Kivaari

      It helped to grow up in the 50-60s where all the old WW2 and Korean war films still filled theaters and TV. You have to admit it was a hit in “Saving Private Ryan”. A friend owns 2 of them. One is a mint condition Savage M1A1. As bad as they are, and they are bad, they have that certain charm that is hard to dismiss.

      • I’ve owned a good number of machine guns but after firing a TSMG once I knew i would never buy one. On top of being a poor SMG, they are also priced disproportionately to their rarity. The TSMG in the registry is fairly common yet they fetch extremely high prices.

        • JumpIf NotZero

          Perception. It’s a Tommy gun after all!

        • Kivaari

          I’d like an M1A1, and remember when they were around for under $500. They are very poor handling and have crappy selectors. They are fun. Once you get past the first 3 shots that shove the gun up and right, you can overcome that and spray it like a water hose. But you run out of heavy ammo fast.

  • dan

    I’m just here to view the butthurt

  • Kivaari

    It is hard to dispute your choices. I love the Thompson M1A1 as a historical fun gun to use. But they weigh a ton, loaded magazines weigh a ton. The number of rounds a man can carry is small compared 9mm or 5.56mm. They are COLLECTOR PIECES. I’ve only handled the Tavor, and didn’t drop a magazine in the gun store, none was in it. It is awkward, as are all the bull pups I have tried.

    • BrandonAKsALot

      The Thompson was the first FA I ever shot and holy crap was it fun. That being said, it’s like trying to wield some 2x4s and I could see the novelty wearing off very fast.

      • Kivaari

        Same here. The first one had had a welding rod dragged through the bore. It worked fine but had a groove about one-third the diameter. When our chief was elected sheriff of a nearby county, the TSMG went missing. It shot like it didn’t have a bore issue. Then I the Navy we were able to fire a magazine load off the fantail. My favorite is the M16A1 and HK MP5. I used an MP5 for about 10 years. Now that is one fun gun to shoot.

        • BrandonAKsALot

          The range I went to had an MP5sd, but it was down for servicing and I was very disappointed. Did shoot a Daniel defense AR and M92 in FA. AKs are no joke in auto. I may have shot the ceiling in my first burst.

          • Tritro29

            Net, arms need more training, stock isn’t there for show.

    • DrewN

      But, it doesn’t predate the M1 carbine by that much, and the M1 is still perhaps the most natural handling firearm of all time. You could give M1s to a gaggle of nuns and have them shooting acceptably well by tea time. IMO still the best,most intuitive, and most effective rear echelon weapon ever devised. Improve the magazines and you could issue them tomorrow with nary a complaint from users.

      • Kivaari

        The M carbine IS an excellent weapon. Not just for rear area troops. Maj. John George, in his book “Shots Fired In Anger”, liked the gun. When it was reprinted in the 1980s by the NRA, if I remember right his brother (Melvin??) told of how the author had killed 35 Japanese soldiers, most of them one-shot kills, using the M1 Carbine.
        It was intended for the support troops, but it worked very well in the right environment, like house-to-house and jungle. It was popular in Vietnam by both ARVN and US advisors. Like todays much superior M4A1 carbines, it has its role, and except for long range both work well. One of my FTOs packed and M2 in his patrol car. I carried an M1 for some of the time, Add an AR180 that gets doo’ed on hear, I loved it. The stock hinge did fail the first time I took it out. With Herter’s (Norma) ammo it would hold very fine groups. From memory, and it has been 40 years ago, I remember the trigger to be easier to master than the M16A1 or civilian AR15s.
        The biggest reason NOT to have the M1 Carbine for everyday use, is I can’t find a real one that sells for less than a mid-priced AR. I don’t know if the new production carbines are worth a damn. If they were like the quality of the Auto Ordnance M1911s, it would be junk. I have not seen how well the current crop of them holds up.
        BUT, I agree, the M1 carbine is fantastic.

      • TJbrena

        >You could give M1s to a gaggle of nuns and have them shooting acceptably well by tea time.

        Man, why aren’t action-musicals a thing? I’d watch “The Sound of Music and Gunfire” as soon as it came out.

  • USMC03Vet

    No MP5?

    Must be an Alex K list!

  • derfelcadarn

    I am not at all offended by this list and fully understand that it is a personal evaluation , but how the AR platform in all its variations are not one, two,three and four on this list is astonishing.

    • schizuki

      I’m guessing it has something to do with its longevity, staggering sales success and adoption by countless military forces and police agencies.

  • BrandonAKsALot

    I’m amazed at the rational responses and lack of flaming so far…

  • Major Tom

    U wot m8?

  • Oldtrader3

    I mostly agree with you except: if I am jungle brush clearing in Nam, I would want a 1928 A1!!

  • Wiley P

    You would at least think that a guy who puts together a ‘Comic Book Guy from the Simpson’s’ type video would know there is no such thing as a milled RPK-74.

  • Slovko

    Aside from the absolutely terrible stock trigger I can’t say I agree w/ you on the Tavor. Still overpriced IMO like most IWI products. And yes I own one, however I’ve never shot a AUG to compare it against. Either way, you didn’t piss me off and it was still a good video! 🙂 Thanks.

  • Lance

    Well I do say Alex hatred for Mosin Nagants stem from the fact he owns a mid war slap together and any rifle from the Stalingrad era of 42-43 will get crappy performance. Pre war and late war 1944-45 did much better when QC returned to Soviet gun makers after the German threat diminished as they where pushed out of Soviet territory in late 43. For arguments stake we can omitted Alexs loved and slobbered over Mauser and look at the other main rifles of the other Axis powers. I’d say the Mosin is better than the Japanese Arisaka and Type 99 rifles, in it had superior cartridge and was a mush smoother action than a Japanese rifle. It certainly was better than fascist Italy’s main rifle the Carcano. 7.62×54 beats 6.5mm Carcano any day.

    I’ve shoot the Alex approved Mauser and yes its a very good rifle and is one of history’s bests. But the M-91/30 is not a horrible either. And face it the Red Army who used Mosins did beat Hitler’s Mauser armed army in the end.

    I do agree on the Sullivan system aka the AR-180. face it its only success was it being converted to a bullpup for the British L-85. But after Desert Storm had to reworked by H&K to work properly.

    Tavor is 100% agree same reason you listed (Bullpups suck “cough”)

    My changes would be to add the SCAR L. IE reciprocating charging handle sucky buttstock, poor ergonomics and be over priced by at least $500+ dollars too.

    Other overrated guns would be the UMP SMG, FNC, and Mp-40 SMG, and the G-3.

    • “The Mosin is better than the Type 99”

      This is a certified Lance post.

      • Paul White

        I’ve never shot any Type 99, or even handled one that wasn’t beat to hell. How do they shoot?

        • iksnilol

          Aren’t they basically Japanese Mausers?

          If so, they should shoot well from what I know about Mausers.

  • Southpaw89

    The best thing about the mosin is its price, and the price of ammo. The G43 looks awesome, and its reputation was likely aided by the many video games that feature it, where reliability is never a problem and the higher capacity and faster reload give it an advantage. It may have done better if German manufacturing hadn’t suffered so heavily from allied bombing. Cant speak for the AR 180, stamping is cheap, but at this point I’m not sure it could be made any cheaper than an AR-15, even if it was able to be mass produced. The Tavor is one of the best looking bullpups IMO, but the arguments against it seem legit, good marketing and video games have made it quite possibly the best known bullpup, at least outside the gun community. The Thompson is dead sexy, but is an old design, its only natural that experience and experimentation would leave it in the dust. And if the auto ordinance Thompson carbine is any basis its ergonomics are terrible.

    • Tyler McCommon

      The BAR gets a lot of hype as well but by WW2 was well outpaced by MOST other SAW designs.

      • Southpaw89

        I honestly though that one would be in here.

        • Paul White

          It should be. Neat concept but man.

  • Nashvone

    For maximum butthurt, this list needs a 1911 and any Glock.

  • kavan

    Had to go after Bill Cosby…. His morals were ok for Hollywood back in the day but haha loved that one

  • randomswede

    In defence of the Ar-18, the AR-15 as we see it today is the latest evolutionary result of the AR-10. I love the AR-10 to bits, especially the dual feed version with an ammo backpack, but I wouldn’t pick it to go to war with, especially not the dual feed version.

    I would love to peer into the alternate universe where the AR-18 had gone through the same process as the AR-15. In some ways I can as the there’s an impressive number of rifles that all but downright copies of the system, almost the same but not quite.

    • ostiariusalpha

      There’s no need to peer into another universe, just look at a G36.

      • randomswede

        “…almost the same but not quite”

        • ostiariusalpha

          In the same manner that an M16A4 is not a Hollywood AR-10, the G36 is very much an “evolved” AR-18.

          • randomswede

            Very much so! Offence was not my intent.

            What I’m getting at is that the G36 is to the AR-18 more like what the Daewoo K2 is to the AR-10 and I’d like to see the “M18A4”, a more refined and “battle improved” rifle without a huge side step. The closest ancestor to my thinking is the Ultimax 100, off the top of my head.

          • DW

            Other close descendants: Taiwan’s T65/T86/T91 all used AR-18 gas pistons, but AR-15ish receiver and buffer tubes. Allegedly Howa Type89 is an AR18 with piston fixed on bolt carrier.

    • Kivaari

      Maybe the evolution of the AR18 is more on the technical side of the target audience. Most nations now can have the equipment to build modern rifles, like of all things, the M16 family. The time has come where those backwards nations, aren’t so backwards today.

      • randomswede

        Perhaps, but wouldn’t they, for the same technological investment, be better off making AKs in some flavor?
        I also fear they’d fall in love with the plastic injection molder and use it inappropriately.

      • Phil Hsueh

        From an actual manufacturing stand point the AK family is supposed to actually be easier to manufacture than an AR. Most nations have the capability to stamp/bend sheet metal to create AK receivers, far fewer have the machining tech to make an AR lower. However, because of abundant cheap labor, many nations can assemble ARs quicker and easier than they can AKs if provided with the receiver and maybe some of the internals.

    • Tritro29

      Oh but you can…look at the ACR and FB MSBS. And prior to that the Aussie interpretation of it (T2 rifle). The only thing that separates the AR-18 from the 15 is that one was mass fielded and thus got every bit of attention it needed, the other only got used by Catholic Fanatics to shoot at her Majesty’s finest.

      • randomswede

        Indeed it’s “…almost the same but not quite”, hadn’t seen the T2 though thank you for that.
        What I “dream” of is seeing the much closer evolution, much more organic and parallel to the M16. Just taking Alex C.’s quick feedback in the video to think up an “M18A1”:
        – The 1960’s US armed forces aren’t really underfunded so tighter tolerances and a higher general level of craftsmanship is a given.
        – The buttstock is branched off into fixed, for the infantry who spends more time with the rifle in hand then other branches. The folding stock is reengineered to a higher standard (and by the A3 version, twice improved, becomes the standard stock again as everyone spends way more time in vehicles)
        – As Colt never bought the AR-15 to make the M16 the AR-15 style magazine latching is reused, or perhaps something more like the Stoner-63 magwell
        – Now comes the port firing version, the heavy barrel version, the Ultra short LRRP version, the DMR versions, the german company version that redoes the gas system to the, now mostly forgotten, method of using the bolt as a piston.
        – Some 50 years later a random Swede would be wishing to peer into the parallel universe where the AR-15 was adopted instead to see how that would have looked

  • John

    I find it amusing that whenever the Thompson is dissed, fanboys conjure up romanticized descriptions of WWII battles with no lack of adjectives.

    e.g. “The battle of the bulge, when it was bitter cold and the bullets were flying, and the only thing standing between the soldier and certain death was the the thompson” etc etc etc

    • Kivaari

      Most troops did use the M1 rifle. It was a serious combat arm. I wonder how many front line troops used the Thompson. It did have a cool factor. It wasn’t much of a gun for range, and standby for flak, a lack of power.

      • Mark

        My grandfather was in the First Special Service Force and carried a Thompson. When he ran in to some Marines at Anzio he talked them in to swapping him a Johnson for his Thompson and some fresh beef. They had procured the beef after a pollock from New York who was a butcher saw a stray cow on the beach then announced to his unit they were about to eat like kings. He then proceeded to kill and butcher the whole cow with a V-42. Only time during the war he put on weight.

        • Grandpa was a badass being in that unit!

        • Alex A.

          There were no US Marines at Anzio. There were British Marines of No.43 Commando, but no US Marines took part in the invasion. Furthermore, the Johnson light machine gun was an issue weapon of the FSSF. If he wanted it, he could have gotten it. The only other unit in Italy to use the Johnson LMG was the Brazilian Expeditionary Force.

          • Mikial

            Alex A.

            Agreed.

            My father landed at Salerno and fought his way up through Italy to relieve the Anzio beachhead and all the way on to Rome and beyond. Consequently, I have made a study of Clark’s Italian campaign (I still have my father’s ‘Road to Rome’ booklet) and I agree with you.

      • Phil Hsueh

        According to stories that I’ve read troops issued Thompsons in WW II in Europe would ditch them in favor of German MP-40s because of the weight, and possibly the novelty too. I’ve also read stories in where German troops would drop their MP-40s in favor of Thompsons along with the PPSH. How true these stories are I don’t know, I do know that the Germans did have a habit of incorporating captured weaponry into their own inventory, even giving them a German military designation, and issuing them out to the troops, if I’m not mistaken, they even created their own version of the PPSH but chambered in 9mm or something like that.

    • iksnilol

      Eh, in my experience (with Battlefield 1942) the Thompson was awesome… because the medic class used it so you could heal yourself and have a decent automatic.

      😛

  • Jeremy Star

    Uh, top 5 over-rated guns?

    Glock – All of them.
    AR-15
    1911
    Shield
    AK-47

    • Kivaari

      I’d disagree with your choice of Glocks and AR15s. I love ’em. I used them for work and play.

      • jono102

        I think some variants of AR15’s are massively overrated. The H&K 416/417 family that have cult like followings, but do little more than any other quality AR models. Much the same with the SCAR family primarily the SCAR L.

        • Kivaari

          Yes!!! Many ARs are over-priced. I use Colt (inflated price due to name) and Bushmasters. I put Geiselle SSA triggers in them. My SBR has a Bushmaster upper on a Colt lower. The others have Bravo Company uppers. Even doing a build for a bare bones AR can cost over $1000. People say they can build them for $500, but what do they get for that money? I used 2 DSA uppers that cost nearly $400 and the quality was very low. A nice BCM upper has great quality and only costs a little bit more. The high price of the piston guns doesn’t seem to be worth the price.

      • iksnilol

        I agree with the Glocks and 1911s. I mean, one is overpriced for what you get and the other is a dead horse that litterally cannot be beaten more.

        • Uniform223

          I would say overpriced and the dead horse bit applies to both.

          • iksnilol

            I’d agree if it wasn’t for RIA.

            😛

          • Uniform223

            RIA?

          • iksnilol

            Rock Island Armory.

            Known for cheap but good 1911s.

        • Hmmm, I dunno. I don’t have scientific testing to back it up, but I feel like Glocks ahve an especially durable and water-resistant finish, and I know for a fact they have better magazines.

          • iksnilol

            Of course it is a water resistant finish when it is plastic xD.

            I just find them to be mediocre, whilst being priced as something that isn’t mediocre. A fair new price for them would be the prices paid for the used police ones.

          • Sgt fish

            400 bucks for a new glock is overpriced? Then what do you call croation XDs lol

          • iksnilol

            I don’t buy Croatian things for nationalistic reasons 😛

          • Paul White

            plastic xD? I thought we were talking aobut Glocks

          • iksnilol

            All plastic is polymer, but not vice versa IIRC.

      • Jeremy Star

        Not at all.
        Glocks – People talk them up all day, every day. And yet they can fail just like every other firearm. In fact, at one point they were out-failing almost every other pistol using .40S&W. They have a cult following and it’s very boring to hear people drone on and on about them.

        AR-15 – The US military uses them, so they must be the be all, end all of rifles! Except the military does everything because of A) Politics and B) Budget. It should have been replaced by now, but we’re so stuck on them they’ll be around forever.

        1911 – Oh just get over them all ready.

        Shield – They are so awesome for conceal carry! (Once you replace half the stock parts)

        AK-47 – You can beat them to death and they just run! Except that’s not true.

        Listen, none of them are bad firearms, but man are they overrated.

  • Arandor Thinnorion

    You missed the number one all-time most overrated firearm. Cough . . . Glock . . . Cough. I know more than one person who bought a Glock because, well, you are supposed to buy a Glock–and like it. They feigned enjoyment for awhile then became disenchanted and bought a firearm they actually liked.

    Whenever someone is about to buy their first firearm and asks me for a recommendation, invariably, the first thing they say is, “People have told me I need to get a Glock.”

    I’ve heard gun store employees say customers came in, tried out a few different guns, liked and preferred the S&W M&P, yet walked out with a Glock. Why? Because you are supposed to buy–and like–a Glock.

    • Bill

      “Get rid of that nickel-plated sissy pistol and buy yourself a GLOCK.”

      The GLOCK is the S&W Model 10 of this generation, but people will try to turn either into something they aren’t.

      • Tassiebush

        My memory archive is thinking that quote is from US Marshalls

        • Bill

          Indeed it is, if I got it right.

    • Drunk Possum

      I’m with you. I hate Glocks. I had one when I turned 21, thought I liked it, then I shot some different guns and realized the grass is most certainly greener. Alas, I now own another one, but it’s for competition only. Funny how things go full circle.

      • iksnilol

        A Glock for competition?

        That’s one of the most ironic things I’ve read 😛

        • Drunk Possum

          Don’t even get me started!! Hahaha 😀

          • iksnilol

            Here in Norway most people who buy a Glock are more often than not the ones who only participate in competitions to legally own a pistol.

          • Drunk Possum

            Is that the rule of law in Norway? I’ve heard of similar laws in other countries, wherein you must be a part of a club for a certain amount of time before you can legally own a pistol. My reasons are a bit more simple here in the States. I’m too cheap to buy a nice 2011 platform!! XD

          • iksnilol

            Basically, you can use a pistol for self defense (on Svalbard) and you can carry it (if you have a credible and legitimate threat to your life) but you can’t buy one for that purpose.

            Glocks cost just as much as CZs which are better suited for comp use. So that’s why some people look down on the Glocks in Norway. Those guys just do the legal minimum so that they can have a “GLAWCK” and mess around with it. And plenty of comp shooters are plenty serious, and that messes with the legitimiacy of the sport.

    • Scott P

      Same could be said for the AR as well.

  • Samael527

    alex i luv ya buddy but you need a bit more emotion in your voice. I’ve heard text to voice software with more affect

  • GUNxSPECTRE

    WWII. What a great time not to be alive in and to retrospectively appreciate it.
    If you want to talk about what Nazi Germany had that were near perfection, it would be three things: the K98, MG42, and the German 88. The tanks? They were fine, but man, were they over-engineered and gas-starving. Know why Operation Barbarossa was launched? To feed his hungry tanks only to get BTFO-d by simple and mass-produced Russian and American tanks.
    Yeah, totally field a rifle that has the potential to smash your thumb or pinch you when fired.

    I’m pretty sure that all the resurgence of “hype” around the Mosin Nagant was a part of trolling from 4chan’s /k/. Oh, sorry. Moist Nugget. It probably started out as an inside joke between the founders of the Moist Nugget meme, and then some people actually took it seriously. They’ve also had some fun with the SKS, but I don’t think that went as far it did with the Mosin.

    I don’t get the AR-180. Is it the weird, blocky look that people like about it? Because the FN FNC is a much better rifle in both function and that older-style rifle style too.

  • Fruitbat44

    Click bait????? Hmmm . . . the article makes a valid point about there being a huge difference between being “bad” and being “overrated.” If you like the difference between being “good for its day” and “Being flawless.”

    The article also makes another valid point, one which is tucked away in the story of the gentleman who had the unfortunate experience with the G43: the value of wearing ballistic eye protection.

  • Tritro29

    Yeah too bad the Garbage rod beat both the “perfect gewehr” and “the Space Gun” and drew with the Jean Garand rifle. We’ll keep the Garbage Rod and our Lunar probes, ‘cos those seem to cause severe cases of haemorrhoids to the free world buts. Hear that snap? That’s 7.62R, that’s the sound of winning. It will take a lot before hearing that from a 5.56 and it will never come actually. But it’s OK, you put the IWI Tav in there so it’s all forgotten.

    Oh the cause for romanticism regarding the “Tommy-gun” is the same that one with the Vintovka, It kicked Jerry’s teeth and Jap’s butt (and Nicholas Cage) so yeah, you can’t go wrong with winning. Remember AR-15, you need to win!

    • Paul White

      the gun didn’t win; the nations did. If you think the differences in the small arms of the nations involved played a decisive role in WWII, you’re historically illiterate.

      • Tritro29

        1. It’s a banter. If you can’t take it as such, then Preparation H is there for you.
        2. The gun won it. Literally. Not because of how it shot, but how easy it was to produce. This while many of the factories had to be transferred. This has been our main feature during the Soviet years. What does a weapon need to be built and perform with limited resources. The Mosin was the cheapest thing out there and it worked for us. Had the Tokarev system been perfected, that one would have been probably replacing the Garbage Rod.
        3. Nations didn’t “win it”. War is a test of fortitude, but mostly a war of numbers. With the right numbers and the right calculus, you can win your wars against the intrinsic values of the nations you’re fighting. Case in point, a barely industrialized Soviet Unions that for many years relied on Weimar Germany and then Nazi Germany for finished goods and production techniques was able to win with mostly untested systems against a very industrious but naturally poor Germany.
        4. Given My Bachelor degree is in Contemporary History, I think you should go and …

        • Paul White

          1: for someone saying its banter you sure seem butthurt?

          2: Was the mosin significantly easier to produce than the 1903, the k98, or other bolt action rifles? I’ve never studied the manufacturing needed to produce various small arms (have you? can you cite some papers?). It didn’t win the war alone, and manufacturing capacity has as much to do with how many of something you can built as the ease of assembly does. I’m suspecting you’re confusing “they built a lot of them” with “they were significantly easier than contemporary firearms to build.” Those are distinct and different statements. You have to allow for manufacturing facilities, natural resources, etc (and are you forgetting that various American companies produced a number of Mosins? They weren’t all Russian built).

          Your statement of “Nations didn’t win it” is also odd in this case. It’s hard to argue that the USSR and the US and the British didn’t, in fact, best the Axis. They weren’t unscathed-if you want a brief overview for the impact in Europe “Savage Contient” is an all right surface treatment (and Embracing Defeat is a great one for post War Japan). The fact that war is a numbers game is largely correct, but you’re drawing very strange conclusions from it.

          3: You have an undergrad in history. That’s nice, but it by no means makes you an historian. I’ve *never* read a credible WII historian that made a case that the difference in small arms quality was a deciding–or even significant–factor. The combined manufacturing capacity of the Allies vs the Axis? Yeah, that mattered.

          • Tritro29

            1. Given your initial reply, I’d say that you missed both the joke and it’s practical purpose.
            2. You’re not only confused, you’re also obviously dishonest. I could cite you papers about the actual accrued expenditures for infantry weapons that the USSR built. They’re, by far well under the cost in reichsmarks it took the 3rd Reigh to field it’s SMG’s. That’s because GröFaz wanted a strong Reichsmark AND autarchy. It’s the basics of 3rd Reich study. As for comparing rifles…why would I compare US production and Soviet Production? What the actual ****? I’m comparing Soviet production within itself. Having a streamlined production of rifle A. And being able to kickstart it from nothing for strategical reasons are completely different than the banality you’re peddling. Nations don’t win…it’s the systems that govern them, chosen or imposed that do the trick. Combined with circumstances. In the case of the USSR many such nations would happily have lost that war in order to win their own independence.
            3. Once again you must be daft. I never said the difference in “quality” won it for the Mosin. I said the Mosin as a rifle was good enough to win it for us. Churning them out like sausages, with generally a poor tooling and many tolerance flaws, while being perfectly apt at combat at the level required back then wont it. That’s not a value. It’s a merit. The same logic applies to the AK. It’s good enough and then some for combat. Is it the best. Probably not. Would it win wars sure, it has already done.

            Given you replied to a banter the way you did, the only thing that remains here is clearly to stick to my previous answer to you…

          • Paul White

            so is your only metric “it’s good enough?” I mean, that’s essentially what I was arguing from the start. It was “good enough” but by no means a good rifle on any mechanical level. Any differences in the small arms themselves is fairly inconsequential compared to the manufacturing and resources the Allies had at their disposal.

            As far as SMG’s: those weren’t, for most of the war, the main issue rifle of the 3rd Riech. The K98 bolt action was. And it was a better rifle. That didn’t matter because they simply lacked the resources and capacity to win a war with most of the rest of the world, regardless of how nice their infantry guns were.

            And with all that: The guns didn’t win the war. The nations involved won/lost a war. It was not their guns. It was the ability to produce and supply an army that won the war. The rifles themselves are a relatively trivial part of that.

          • Tritro29

            Oy Vey…Nope what you were arguing from the start is that a tool doesn’t win anything. While I was arguing jokingly that the Garbage Rod won it’s day against far more prestigious foes, touted to be better in all aspects. It was a joke, a banter. Something that you didn’t get. Maybe you’ve got a D30 cleaning rod stuck where the sun doesn’t shine, I don’t know. But it’s clear you’ve got to have some German blood on you. For sure.

            Urrg. SMG’s produced during the 3rd Reich never exceeded 1.5 million units. Wartime production of the Mosin (1939/45) exceeded 12 million in all types. The German “Erma”-line SMG cost was about 458 million Reichmarks. Granted a huge part of its was due to the very uneconomical standards the initial MP’s were made. But this was redeemed with forced labour later in the war. And I’m not counting the cost of the Mkb series. later to be called STG…

            The Mosin would take over 40 hours to make in 1935, it took 12 hours in 1941. Some rifles were even assembled in 10 hours in 1943…do you understand the difference? The Mauser Went from 30 hours in 1935 to 16 hours in 1944. The Cost usually touted for the K98 is between 65 and 50 Reichmarks during wartime. It cost 100 Reichmarks back in 1936. In comparison the convertibility of the Mosin position its average cost at around 28 Reichsmarks. that’s basically HALF the price.

            My metric is that it won a war. It was a joke. Only half of it. Also the main issue of the Wehrmacht cost upwards 900 million Reichsmark with the tooling and losses. In comparison the cost of the Mosin convertibility wise stands at roughly 400 million Reichsmarks. Both rifles were produced in comparable numbers although the Mosin really boomed from 1939.

            Rifles weren’t a trivial part it. Actually the way they were built was a large part of the actual deal. Especially for country like the USSR which was under aggression from 1941 to 1944. And yeah, I repeat the Mosin won its contest against both the WunderGewehr and the “Space Gun”.

          • Phil Hsueh

            The Mosin only “won” by virtue being one of the rifles that was used by the winning side. Going by that metric the British Lee Enfields, and the Garand also won because the US & Britain also beat Nazi Germany along with Japan and are thus better than the Mauser K98. I won’t deny that the Mosin helped the Soviet Union to beat Nazi Germany but it wasn’t the primary factor by far, I’d argue that the Lend/Lease program was large contributing factor to Russia’s victory over Germany. Then there was Hitler’s own general idiocy that greatly enabled the Allies to defeat the German war machine, I personally feel that Hitler was Germany’s own worst enemy and Stalin, FDR, & Churchill were all smart to, for the most part, stay out of the operational affairs of their generals and let them do their jobs as they saw fit.

          • Tritro29

            … What part of banter didn’t you get?
            Besides that, I gave a full detailed explanation on what made the Mosin “win”. Things that indeed made other weapons “win” as well. It’s not a comparison. It’s a tongue in cheek joke about a half truth. A figure of speech.
            You’re arguing something that borders lunacy.

            If people can call the Mosin a “Garbage Rod”, well I guess I can say it beat the “Mauser”. Both are cringe-worthy. Do you understand the point now?

          • Phil Hsueh

            Ok, I’ll buy that it’s a joke. Still, I’d argue that there were other, larger, contributing factors to the Allied victory over the Axis than small arms, Hitler’s own stupidity and vanity being a big one. But that’s neither here nor there and not entirely relevant to the discussion at hand.

          • Tritro29

            I’d say that given how Hitler envisioned the Autarchic economy of the German Reich, the confrontation that led to his demise, vs the USSR was unavoidable. Calling Hitler stupid, is the usual short-cut people take when looking at the 3rd Reich Era. They all forget that the German society had been living with a Hitler-like figure since the beginning of the re-unification (ZollVerein). You don’t need to buy it. It WAS a joke. Maybe it didn’t sank properly with a lot of people, but that’s how seeing a piece of military history called a Garbage Rod felt. However unlike you, I chose to make fun of the fact. And retort with the same kind of “humorous” delirium. Guess what, America was founded by Germans. At least when humour is concerned.

    • mosinman

      as much as i like the Mosin , Paul is right.
      of course this goes to highlight that simply having marginally “better” rifles really doesn’t mean much in the grand scheme of things.

      • Tritro29

        I never judged the rifle on its intrinsic values, but on its merits. I said it won. And so it did. Period.

  • Blake

    I’m guessing it said “Norinco” on the side…

  • Hia Ren

    Hey Alex, Ren here from Singapore! Ian from forgotten weapons did a review on the SAR-21 before and I would like to hear your opinion on it. I used the weapon in the army, and while it was alright, i could never get over the sluggish trigger and the proprietary 1.5 X scope (Which was rather ineffective in the jungle where engagements tend to be about 50m or less).

    Great work on TFB Tv btw! I live in a country where firearms possession is punishable by death so this is this is the only way I can satisfy my craving for information of firearms! 🙁

    • Boogur T. Wang

      Welcome. Same same in Taiwan.
      (However, I am glad for the firearm restrictions here)

  • TVOrZ6dw

    Excellent video and true to point- Overrated weapons, not failed weapons.

  • Camilo Emiliano Rosas Echeverr

    I’m just enjoying all the “It’s great gun after you modify it and add aftermarket parts!” comments. Gonna grab the second popcorn bag.

    • iksnilol

      Just like the 10/22.

      Sure, it’s a great gun. I mean, it does cost twice the price of similar guns with better accuracy… but you can spend even more money on it to get it even more accurate.

      • Zachary marrs

        To be fair, while the 10/22 is twice as expensive as a marlin model 60, i don’t have to clean the 10/22 after 50 rounds.

        The marlin shaved more lead than a pencil sharpener

        • iksnilol

          Didn’t experience that with the ones I’ve tried. Did you try loosening the chamber or something?

          • Zachary marrs

            Nothing to do with the chamber, just every once and awhile a cartridge gets presented at an odd angle, ans it takes a bit of lead in it.

            I’m also not too eager to spend more money on a gun that cost me $80, and i hardly ever shoot.

          • iksnilol

            Makes sense.

            Just weird, I’ve never encountered such a problem.

          • Dave

            My Remlin Mod. 60 does the bullet shave. Looks like fingernail clippings when I remove the stock…

          • iksnilol

            GODDAMN YOU REMINGTON, DAMN YOU TO NEW JERSEY!

    • Vhyrus

      So your AR has the military spec trigger, handguard, gas block, pistol grip, safety, trigger guard, stock, magazine, muzzle brake, and carry handle? Or would you like to revise your statement?

      • Camilo Emiliano Rosas Echeverr

        M5 5,56 gun is a Steyr AUG

      • Paul White

        My ar has almost none of that but it came with none of that.

      • Zachary marrs

        This is what is “milspec” now

        Many ar’s come from the factory with the modifications you listed

  • mazkact

    Great piece . Sometimes the truth hurts. I will say that the Finns fixed the Mosin and I will put my M39s against any contemporary. Thank you for the bit on the Tavor . I may have to look into the redesigned one instead..

  • Flight Er Doc

    Don’t forget the M14, the FAL, the Minimi and of course, the M60

  • iksnilol

    I find the reverence for Mausers somewhat funny when in other parts of the world they are considered a solid “meh” or bottom bin.

    Personally, I call Mausers “clunkers” for a reason.

    • mosinman

      Alex just really really really likes German guns.

      • The_Champ

        Except the prominent German gun he puts on his top 5 over rated list I guess 😊

        • mosinman

          well even the biggest firearm fanatic has to admit there are occasional lemons from his group/country of choice

          • DW

            He did say all autoloaders of WW2 Germany were crap except the STG…

          • I stand by that!

      • 7n6

        Dresses up like a nazi to go to the range…..

        • mosinman

          to be fair, i have never seen him do that….

    • Dave

      The ’41 and ’43 were wartime rush to production aberrations, but if bolt action rifles were planets, the Mauser 98 would be the sun. This is irrefutable.

      “Other parts of the world” have lots of interesting notions, and I have never polled Nigeria for opinions on Mausers. Perhaps it’s true.

      • iksnilol

        Called it. 😛

        Mausers are good, but they aren’t the magical teutonic death sticks people who don’t have access to them believe them to be. In Norway they are the equivalent of a Mosin. Cheap and durable with mediocre accuracy.

        True though, 100 million Mausers and variants made.

  • john4637

    Outstanding!

  • tb556

    Is your favorite bullpup the AUG or FS2000?

    • DW

      I think Alex’s favorite is the FS2000, seeing as it doesn’t gas people in face, is fully ambi and is THE tactical tuna/sunfish thing.

  • Geoff Peterson

    Another gun that deserves consideration is the FAMAS F1. A lot of youngsters who gain most of their gun knowledge from video games consider it to be a great classic, simply because they’ve “used” it a few times in video games.

    • TJbrena

      As a youngster with experience in countless vidya gaems, the FAMAS is usually mid-tier or garbage. The high RoF and recoil usually means people use it mostly in close quarters as a glorified SMG. The only exceptions I can think of are the one in Battlefield 3’s multiplayer before it was nerfed in a patch (before said patch it was overpowered as hell and everyone who used it was subject to frequent verbal abuse), and the one in Rainbow Six Vegas, where half the people in online multiplayer used one with an ACOG or 6x scope.

      The AN-94 is a far better competitor for the title of overrated video game guns. Or even better (worse), the ACR, which is still in Ubisoft games to this day. Kind of fitting, considering the terrible bugs Ubisoft games now frequently come shipped with.

  • RickH

    I agree with you, (but just a bit) on all but two of the weapons. First, the AR180 is a great design but was simply not developed to its full potential. Second, the Thompson gets a pass because of its age. Is it better other submachine guns? No, but at the time of its major uses it was the best thing out there.

  • Bill

    “garbage rod”

    “here it is for countries that have not put a flag on the moon”

    Classic comments! I’m stealin’ both of ’em.

  • Tassiebush

    Moon landing was faked! (I don’t actually believe that but it’s all I’ve got)

    • Tassiebush

      I do have to say it’s touching to see that despite whatever antipathy has been before the people of the United States still appreciate a good British imperial measurement system.

    • Brian M

      LOL. In case if anyone reading this ACTUALLY thinks the moon landing was faked, think of this:
      1. In 1969, the technology to fake the moon landings did not yet exist.
      2. Tests of faked moon landing theories do not result in images matching the moon landing photos.
      3. If NASA had lied about the moon landing, then they would have lied about other things by now.
      4. If you’re living in the only nation with a flag on the moon, why would you try to deny it ever happened?

      • Tassiebush

        Good points. My mind always boggles at the idea that some people think that premier scientific institutions just sit around conspiratorially fabricating science to get funding and manipulate the masses.

  • Isaac FluffyWolf Rader

    “Working the bolt simply feels like dragging a grand piano across a gravel beach and the trigger feels the same.”
    Mmmm, agreed. I was at a friend’s gun shop once, I could barely move the damn thing’s bolt.

    • Reef Blastbody

      Yeah, I let some friends urge me into buying some Mosins, and while they were dirt cheap, they were dirt cheap for a reason. Fortunately, after I manipulated the controls on them a few times, I stuck them in the closet, and eventually sold them for a small profit.

    • Nils

      You can fix sticky bolt with polishing compoun. I’m left handed, so I have an advantage in that I can torque the bolt more easily since I’m pulling up on it rather than pushing it.

  • Reef Blastbody

    Of all the guns on this list, the Tavor was the only one I was actively considering for purchase, though due to job/relocation constraints, hadn’t had a chance to pursue.

    I say “was” because now that the Desert Tech MDR is in production, or shortly will be, and has the same MSRP as a Tavor, $1,999 in 5.56X45, arguably superior ergonomics and trigger, and the capability to quickly change between intermediate length and full length (7.62X51) calibers and pistol calibers (still in the works), the decision becomes a WHOLE lot simpler. That and Desert Tech has a proven track record for delivering caliber conversions and offering the pieces to third party barrel makers for their customers who want to get barrels in custom/wildcat calibers. IWI is only now finally starting to offer .300BLK barrels. Also, who’s bright idea was it at IWI to just scrap the 5.45X39 kits that were, as I understand it, ready to ship to customers? Did they think that the 7N5 ban magically disappeared the billions of rounds that were already in country? Or that 7N5 was the one and only 5.45 round available here? SMH….

    • cwp

      If the MDR is everything promised, at the price point promised, the Tavor will be a much tougher sell. On the other hand … it’s been “coming soon” for several years now, and Desert Tech’s other rifles are quite pricey. And, of course, we’ve now had three years to find fault with the Tavor — it’s not out of the question that when (if?) MDRs start to reach customer hands, there might be some unforeseen downsides.

      I’m not trying to slam the MDR, honestly. I really hope it’s as good as it’s supposed to be, and they can hold the line on price — if so I’ll probably buy one. I’m just uncomfortable declaring it the bullpup savior before it gets into customer hands. Remember the ACR? Hell, remember the pre-release Tavor hype?

  • Jon

    I agree you Alex, the best feture of the Tavor is its marketing and all German gear is overrated by default.
    I’m curious about your experience with bullpups, have you tried the Russian ADS?

  • st4

    Top 5 underrated next plz!

  • gunsandrockets

    In defense of the AR-180, the AR-180b was a failure because it’s design was crippled by the Federal 1994 AW ban and it had additional faults as well that don’t trace to its AR-18 roots.

    Is the AR-18 over-rated? Perhaps. But I think it’s telling that so many nations took the guts of the AR-18 and made their own automatic rifles out of it.

  • Bob

    As the proud owner of a garbage rod, I can honestly say the price of the rifle and the price of ammo played a big part in my selection. I prefer my Lee Enfield and would take it to war before my Mosin, but I don’t find the bolt to be that bad on mine. (My father’s on the other hand is harder to run, especially when it gets hot.) Accuracy is nothing to write home about though, I’ll admit that. Never got a good feel for it exactly, but several MOA is about right. I wouldn’t be confident of a hit on a man sized target beyond about 400 meters, and that may be optimistic on my part. Eh, part of history man, part of history.

  • TheNotoriousIUD

    Damn dude, that’s harsh.

  • Drunk Possum

    I like my Mossy Nugget, though admittedly, some of it is nostalgia. Bought it from the old man for $75 when I turned 18. I still put rounds thru her from time to time, and I always love seeing people who’ve never shot one try it for the first time. Its fun to shoot, and accurate enough, but man, the keyholing is strong with that one. As for people saying the 1911 is overrated; with a little sear and spring work, you really cant beat the SA trigger on it. You just can’t.

  • SirOliverHumperdink

    If Hi Point, Kimber or Taurus ever made a Mosin, the internet would have to be turned off.

    • Paul White

      I want this to happen!

      • mosinman

        i wouldn’t mind a Kimber Mosin…. it’d be 1000 USD but still.

  • Bob

    Say, I’ve only heard Garbage Rod in Alex C’s videos. Is there an origin story to the term or just his own slang?

  • lookinoutforu

    Stick with your .30-40 Krag, Alex.

  • As someone on metered bandwidth– bless you, My Son, for including a transcript under the video.

    I’m honestly surprised not to see the M14/M1A on this list. It’s a super fun rifle and a classic beauty, but any firearm that both A: is highly nostalgia-popular; and B: includes instructions in the manual on how to beat the operating rod into submission with a mallet… is definitely a firearm with a good PR campaign.

  • SpartacusKhan

    Top 5 over-rated guns? The real list:
    1: Glock
    2: Glock
    3: Glock
    4: Glock
    5: Glock

  • AD

    Well, I was surprised to find that non of that offended me. I guess I’m just lucky that I don’t own any of those firearms… or very many firearms at all…

    yeah, lucky me…

    Sigh.

  • Petto

    I like the fact you love some much the AUG , that you can’t say anything bad about it
    “Hey Guys , look at my AUG and i can change barrels quickly! ain’t that so cool?” like ’90s kid or something
    if the mighty AUG was so good then the NZ army wouldn’t replace that rifle at all and with LMT ar15 rifles , ouch what a irony

    • iksnilol

      Uh…

      The LMT ARs were brand new. The AUGs that the NZ army used were brand new… in the 70’s.

      Was cheaper to buy new ARs than new AUGs.

  • Uncle Festet

    The first time I picked up a Tommy Gun (unloaded), my first thought was about how heavy it was. Although more compact by a mile than the Garand, the Tommy Gun felt heavier.

  • DW

    I think almost all .45acp SMG’s are overrated. Notable exception: Grease gun, because so little was expected of it yet it delivers.

  • Bill

    Name one “normal” artist, in any field 😉

    • iksnilol

      Chris Pratt seems pretty normal.

      • Paul White

        plus, while it was totally impractical for dinosaur hunting, that 45-70 was AWESOME

        • CupAJoe

          It seems like a completely legitimate choice for someone working with raptors in my book, I was very impressed that the movie peeps actually picked a gun that made sense for that character. Totally impractical for the Dino he ended up using it on, but legitimate choice for a raptor handler in my book…. But what do I know, I’m just a neck bearded keyboard jockey that thinks leveractions are cool.

          • Paul White

            fair point, I was thinking more along the lines of dealing with large herbivores or carnivores. For a raptor a good 45-70 might work all right

        • iksnilol

          But it is .45/70.

          It floored buffalo, which are like at least 2.5 velociraptors in sice.

    • TheNotoriousIUD

      Steve Buscemi seems like a righteous guy. Before he made it in acting he was a NYC fireman. He was there on 9/11 and went down to his old station and volunteered to help ride a truck. I don’t think they let him but he offered.

      • Boogur T. Wang

        I did not know this.Thanks for the info.
        BTW, I really do not like the “Horace and Pete” sit-com(?) he’s doing with Louis C.K.

  • TheNotoriousIUD

    Yes he was a pretty terrible human being with exceptional musical talent. But celebrating his cold blooded execution is over the line. I try to know as little as possible about celebrities whose work I enjoy because they are probably mostly not great people.

  • Robert Rodriguez

    I’m surprised the list wasn’t entirely dedicated to HK. Almost everything thing from them is overrated. There are weapons that have made names for themselves for being the greatest battle implement ever devised, Kalashnikov reliable, or the right arm of the free world and HK is nowhere on that list, yet people will brag about them like they are worth their weight in gold.

    All the others, due to legal issues, can only be had here in the states in semi configuration, but as close to original configuration as you can legally get. HK will sell you a neutered bastard child of a rifle for 2x-3x more than its competitors because screw you for wanting something in stock configuration. Their hard nosed policy of catering towards military and law enforcement only for cool stuff has come back to bite them as aside from a few pistols and semi auto types, they have little civilian market presence. The only thing slick about them is their marketing and propoganda in Hollywood films. You are finally coming out with a semi auto stock configuration G-36 when FN is introducing belt fed fun to the civilian market… Way to be behind the curve HK!

    • Brian M

      Here’s a rant about HK I came up with like a year ago.

      “To be honest with you, H&K is probably the most overrated gunmaker on the planet. H&K is famous for one single firearm, the MP5, which is an excellent submachine gun, and from the MP5, H&K continues to milk every last bit of hype it can to cover up the fact that it doesn’t really have anything special other than that. The G3 was a moderately successful weapon, but it never managed to quite equal the magnificent FAL by Fabrique Nationale (FN), which took the world by storm, being successful enough to get fifty years and counting of modifications and improvements.

      The HK33 and 53 failed to take off by virtue on H&K’s trademark sin, being not only hideously expensive compared to as good or better (and much more available) alternatives, but also so much of the things (like the magazines) being strictly proprietary.

      The USP is a solid handgun, but then again, all respectable tactical pistols are, and there are other contenders who are easier to work with and can win on price, such as Glock, Sig Sauer, Beretta, Smith & Wesson, FN, CZ…

      The G36 has long had a hard time with keeping pace with customers who have exacting standards for their weapons. It is also very expensive while also using only proprietary magazines (big liability in a STANAG world), and not offering any kind of performance to place itself above the competition. The melting issues have been known for years, but they have only finally broken into wider general awareness recently. The German government, and many other customers, have actually canceled their G36 orders. H&K is doing their best to solve this by pretending that nothing is wrong, doing absolutely nothing to fix the issues, blaming the end users, and trying to distract people by pushing the 416 and 417 as hard as possible.

      The 416 and 417 are piston AR systems. Their price keeps them from being particularly popular for wider distribution, except in Norway, where they have acquired a poor reputation due to gas pistons going bad, the cold freezing up guns, and charging handles breaking, none of which are problems of the older G3 (locally called AG3) or suffered by neighboring countries, who all use AK’s or AK-derived weapons. The 417 is pretty much a flop, thanks to the FN SCAR-H winning over USSOCOM and being quite an admirable beast. The 416 is just another piston AR in 5.56, but it got lucky by being one of the first on the market and being used to kill Osama Bin Laden.

      The MG4 is pretty much an H&K ripoff of the FN Minimi.

      So if you’ve been keeping score, this makes for:

      1 standout exemplar (MP5)

      4 respectable successes(G3, USP, 416, MG4)

      3 abject failures (33/55, G36, 417. MP7)

      Add to that H&K being a company which treats its customers with absolute contempt being a complete bitch to work with, insisting on keeping as many things proprietary as possible, and does not care about the end user. H&K also charges very high prices for their weapons while failing to deliver performance, service, or anything else to justify the fact that its prices for weapons are significantly greater than those of other companies offering similar weapon systems with similar or better performance.”

  • Patrick K Martin

    I will say that the AR180 needs a GOOD revamp, the Ar180B was not that

  • UCSPanther

    Trying to build the “perfect gun” is like trying to build the “perfect tractor” or the “perfect computer”. It is impossible to create one machine that can do everything and please everybody.

  • Wolfgar

    Alex your the man. Refreshing and truthful without the emotional baggage associated with inferiority complex. Your reviews are spot on and enjoyable, keep it up.

  • Fegelein

    1. Mosin no good? 5MoA groups? Here is IV8888 making just over 400yd long shots on a stock 91/30 on a 16″ gong, meaning accuracy within the 3MoA range or less. Title: “Russian m91/30 Mosin Nagant fired at 400 meters with the Bayonet Attached” Did you know someone named “trollprepper” did an unsupported standing Mad Minute on a stock 91/30 and uploaded it to Youtube entitled “Mad Minute Mosin Nagant”?

    2. The G43 could’ve been worse — it could’ve just stayed the G41. I’m surprised to see anything German on this list, considering Alex’s infamously fetishistic Teutonophillia.

    3. The AR18 indeed did suck dust bunnies from a rusted vacuum cleaner your weird brother spends a lot of time with in his closet. Did you know that people decided to try to take the design and use it as a cheap basis to create their own firearms? Cue the SA80, the G36, and others. That certainly would explain an alarming amount. What can I really say other than Eugene Stoner had no business designing military weapons?

    2. Plenty of people seem to really like the Tavor. Perhaps you just don’t like it. If you want a taste of good old bullpup shoddiness, try out an SA80 or a FAMAS; you’ll beg for the Tavor back.

    1. Thompson… falls into the same category a the M1911; if it didn’t have great stage presence as a historical icon, it would be disregarded. As you said, battle rifle / LMG weight and size for an expensive, finicky SMG. What people forget is the Thompson served into he 60’s, but the M3 Grease Gun, another 45ACP SMG, served into the 1990’s.

    Personally, here is the list I would have arranged:

    1. AR15
    Reliability problems, crazy controls, overly complex construction, slow jams clearance.

    2. M1911
    Low capacity, round has no special advantage to offset heft, finicky,needs tuning,

    3. Mini 14
    World’s most expensive plinking rifle, too fragile for duty work, open action,

    4. Luger
    Sensitive, tiny sights, toggle action, part interchange problems, non-standard IAD’s.

    5. M1 Carbine
    Low capacity rifle that shoots a pistol bullet.

  • Goody

    Some actual laugh-out-loud moments, “Garbage rod”

  • GhostTrain81

    I love both the Tavor and the AUG, though I like the AUG just a little bit better (If the latter was a 10, the other would be a 9.5).

    … Why you say ask?

    Cleaning the AUG is more fun! The engineering of the internals is a thing of beauty. I love how everything just locks and clicks together. If you are obsessed with cleanliness and removing every last bit of carbon the AUG is unbeatable 😀 .

    … Am I weird to suggest I enjoy cleaning ?

  • Dave

    “Oh snap!”

    I guess “over-rated by who?”
    So, for example, I think my list goes a little something like this:
    5. Pretty much every self-loading pistol, which is sold using all manner of “hype” and marketing… There may be some particular stand-outs in the bunch–Colt, Walther, I’m looking at you…

    4. HK G3–clearly, the word is out here at the Firearm Blog, but not elsewhere, apparently.

    3. B.A.R. .30-06

    2. Meh, I think I agree with you about the Thompson, but I’ve only ever used one in “Call of Duty” vs., say, the much-maligned Sten and über-fantastik HK MP5…

    1. M1903 Springfield

    I’d qualify the, erm, “garbage rod” with the PU-sniper, I think, although at least it was admirably simple. I’m an über-huge-Mosin-Nagant-fanboy, but I do concede it was the worst bolt action rifle used in WWII… A five inch group? I do see people do much, much better than that… Of course, it was considered good enough for “workers and peasants government work” with 6-moa, instead of our–“Put a flag on the moon ‘Merican” 4-moa “rifleman’s standard.” That for every good Soviet/Russian firearm there are a bunch of stinkers strikes me as a bit hyperbolic and inaccurate, and hence, “disagreeable” as you say. DP LMG? Ok, there’s the M1895 Nagant revolver. Mosin-Nagant? OK, there’s the PPSh41, Kalashnikov, Simonov, Tokarev, Mararov, RPD, RPK, PKM, etc. etc.

    Underrated:
    1. M1 carbine
    2. MAS 36.
    3. Carcano
    4. Toss-up

    Swedish Ljungman AG42B or 7mm Remington Rolling Block model 1902?

    As you yourself noted in the separate piece about the AR-18, commercially it was a total flop–I mean the reputation is what?, “The IRA’s ‘widowmaker?'” Nonetheless, the principles of a)cheap and b) gas-operated, turn-bolt 5.56mm have won out in contemporary service rifle design… G36, although it may be replaced by something more along the lines of the AR, Beretta, the IW L85/SA80, the AR-70, to some degree even the vaunted SIG StG90/550–unless I’m mistaken?

  • KingofKong86

    The Mosin was good enough for Simo Hayha, AKA White Death. I guess he was a fanboy too.

  • Dr. Longfellow Buchenrad

    “Like the RX7 of firearms”

    Best quote I found on the internet today

  • Leigh Rich

    Opinions are like a$$ holes. Bet Alex have never served in the Military.

  • krushy

    Agree totally on the Mosin. After 20 rounds the barrel band on mine would come loose and slide down the fore-end, the bolt was stick as Elmer’s glue and the safety was a joke. Accuracy? I was lucky to be on the paper within 25 yards. A piece of Russian crap.

  • Not You

    I bought a couple 1/16″ end mills and took a bushel basket full of M-16 mags over to a friend with a milling machine and now ALL of my 100 or so mags work perfectly in my AR-180 and also my other ARs.

    The feature you always forget to mention is the quick detach scope mount that indexes perfectly when reinstalled. I guess you just don’t have one.

    I still prefer my other ARs because he didn’t mention the 15 lb. trigger. It is crisp, just heavy as a brick.

  • Reinhard

    I liked this article. Very little, if anything is perfect and many of these, while good or better for their day, have been upstaged by technology. I wish to address some of the comments on the Thompson, however. The 1921, 1927, and 1928 models are NOT blowbacxk. They operate on the overly complicated “Blish System. The M1 and M1A are blowback weapons. Next, they do not all have the same cyclic rate of fire. The 1927 is semi-auto only so it doesn’t matter. The 1921 has a too fast rate of fire for most anti-personnel purposes. That is why the 1928 model was created. It uses a heavier bolt, there-by reducing the cyclic rate of fire by almost 200 rounds per minute. It was great in its period, as the author points out. None-the-less, for anti-personnel use, the .45 ACP is hard to beat. I think fully automatic arms are grossly overrated across the board. They are a lot of fun to shoot, though.

  • Guido FL

    The Mosin is a 1898 design as I recall ? The only and I mean only thing it has going for it is the nasty 7.62×54 caliber. Other wise these should be regarded as wall hangers only. Of course the Mosin fan boys luv these relics that the USSR phased out right after WW2 .

    • Fegelein

      1891 and still going strong.

  • Old Lawyer

    A loaded 1911 with 8 round weighs about 44 ounces and a fully loaded Glock with 14 rounds weighs 40 ounces…not enough to tell on a hip or shoulder holster….is the Glock or 1911 overated? Well no, and once you pass about $600 on a 1911 the real difference is cosmetic….sorry Kimber and Sig…but I build 1911s better than yours and know the difference….you chances of winning the powerball are 1 in 292 million about the same as needing more than 5 rounds in a home invasion, car jacking or active shooter at the mall…..studies for about 5 decades indicate no more than 5 rounds is ever needed in a private shooting…. but still a good idea to carry a reload…..so while I own a bunch of high capacity handguns and dont find them overated in hog or bear country while hiking I do find the hype to be just that, hype….. now the Mosin is a $125 rifle and if it goes bang every time….it is worth $125…and if you can squeeze a 2-3 inch group out of a 6 inch group rifle it is a lot of fun….now I hunt with a 257 and 300 Weatherby, but I also have a British 303 that shoots 5 inch groups and I have never missed a deer with it…so what does overated really mean????

  • Lee

    Lolz, the Garbage Rod, I’m sooo borrowing that…. darn great video!

  • efred1

    My uncle served in WWII as a sergeant during the Bulge, and was issued an M1 carbine. He served from Post D-Day to the end of the war, during which he earned two Bronze Stars with a ‘V’. What little he ever told me about his combat experience was that during the Bulge, a German soldier charged at him with his bayonet, and he accurately emptied his carbine into center mass, and the soldier kept coming until he tripped over something in the snow and then laid still. He told me that he traded it off for a Thompson, which he said ‘worked much better’. So, in spite of its flaws, a Thompson is still better than an M1 carbine.

  • Mike11C

    Very entertaining and quite accurate. Although, I would choose a Tavor over an FS2000. I will be stealing the term “garbage rod” and “countries who haven’t landed on the moon”.

  • Mike Lashewitz

    I have 2 Mosins and they are not accurate. But they are fairly simple and they work. Gotta love that shoulder after 50 rounds…
    I hate PC nice job!

  • desertcelt

    As an owner of two Mosin Nagant rifles, I won’t argue that they are a superior rifle. They are simple, utilitarian and will do the job. They played no small part in stopping the Wehrmacht on the Eastern Front in WW2. I would love to have an AR180 if I could find an affordable one, even though it was inferior to the AR15.

  • Dave Bryar

    Great video, funny as hell.

  • maodeedee

    I had a Mosin carbine and it was fairly accurate but I didn’t like the position of the bolt because it was too far forward of the trigger. It had a bogus safety and the action was very slow to manipulate compared to the British SMLE which as far as I’m concerned was the best bolt action battle rifle of all time.

  • Hyok Kim

    Thanks for the heads up on Tavor. I don’t want bullpup, but if I wanted one, it would be either AUG or FS2000.

  • Jays

    Best video I have seen on here so far. Don’t get me wrong, they are all pretty good, but this one just seemed to go right along with many things I have always thought.

  • Steve_7

    Totally agree on the Tavor, almost word-for-word what I said the first time I had a go with one.

  • Louis Tarado

    I appreciated the article, and can’t really disagree. I’ve only fired the Mosin, (which I always said “moe-sin”) and a Thompson. I thought the Mosin kicks heavy for its weight, but seemed good enough at 100 yards, will need to check that out again. My argument is perhaps the Thompson seems better made than an M3 or Sten, and knowing the production costs were monumentally higher may have cemented that notion. Besides nostalgia, and for me, Geraldo Rivera on his famous prime time special, it is a hefty little bugger, and burning off more than 3-5 rounds off in a burst is not very controllable. Even that method of “one Mississippi” had me typing verticle trails at very close range. I opt for a modern materials carbine for a semi in 45acp, got a JRC now, and would like to try a Mech-tech unit out next. Price on Thompsons doesn’t seem worth it especially, for the price I’d rather get sonething with l8nger range p8tential.

  • Alex A.

    As someone who has fired an M1A1, I feel it’s a rather good design. The mass of the bolt is much lower than the mass of the rest of the weapon. That combined with the high rate of fire makes it a very controllable gun. In my particular shooting session, in which I fired 250 rounds through the Thompson, I was able to keep the muzzle in the center of the target while firing off 20 rounds in one continuous burst, and repeated the feat twice over.

    One gun I feel is terribly overrated is the Uzi, which I fired in the same session as the Thompson, putting 200 rounds through it. The gun was a full size Uzi with the fixed wood stock and an ad-on vertical foregrip. The mass of the recoiling parts is much too high compared to the rest of the gun. It also doesn’t have a good buffer. Both those points, combined with the slower than pedestrian rate of fire, conspire to produce a gun I found unpleasant and difficult to shoot accurately.