Top 5 AR15 Alternatives… That Failed

For decades now, companies have tried to release firearms to dethrone the mighty M16/AR15 rifle. While some attempts have been more successful than others (some enjoying even moderate success), all the ones on this list have fizzled out or seem to be losing most, if not all factory support. While these aren’t necessarily bad firearms, they sure have not outsold the venerable AR15 on the American market (and abroad in most cases).

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Transcript …

– [Voiceover] Hey guys, it’s Alex C. with TFB TV, and the topic of today’s video is going to be five AR-15 M16 alternatives that failed.

We’re excluding guns that have been banned by import.

Otherwise, there’d be some actually really good guns on the list like the Beretta AR-70 and things like that.

But, we’re going to focus on guns that petered out for one reason or another.

And the free market basically took care of the problem, and that’s why the guns are no longer with us.

So, we’re going to kick the list off with perhaps the most coveted and most famous of the guns on the list.

That’s just going to be the AR-180 AR-18.

You can tell how crude these are.

They’re basically stamped steel.

You can see the welds there which is pretty ugly.

This is an original Armalite Costa Mesa gun.

It’s also got patents pending written on there.

It’s kind of hard to film that roll mark because it’s so shallow, but the AR-180s were designed in the early 60s, and they enjoyed limited success, mostly in the civilian market actually.

They feature things like a folding stock that were quite nice.

And realistically, they’re actually well put together guns so far as a stamped gun.

They have proprietary 20 and 30 round magazines.

Large capacities are also available.

The reason they don’t fit an M16 is because the magazine catch hole is slightly different, but they have a reciprocating charging handle attached to the bolt directly.

They also have a folding dust cover that’s very, very reminiscent of the AR-15 M16s.

The safety is also ambidextrous, and the sights are also stamped.

Very crude here, but effective and easily adjustable.

There’s nothing inherently wrong with stampings in a firearm application, especially when you consider that this gun was designed basically to give countries that couldn’t stamp, or excuse me, milk aluminum and whatnot, the capability to produce 5.56 caliber more modern rifles.

Even the trigger group is stamped which is kind of interesting.

Very liberal use of stampings which resulted in an affordable platform back then.

Now, this gun’s true legacy is in it’s gas system.

It’s got a unique short-stroke gas piston that really has influenced a lot of guns like the British SA-80, the Howa 89.

You can even see some of it’s influence in guns like the modern G36 and ACR and things like that.

Here’s a nice closeup of the gas system so you can see the components here.

There’s basically a piston, a connector and then kind of an operating rod.

And you’ll see this in all kinds of different firearms.

But all in all, the AR-180 is a gun that should have taken off, and I’ve never really been able to figure out why.

They enjoyed more success on the commercial side of things than actual military sales, but like I said, the gas system soldiers on today in many platforms.

So next up is one that I wasn’t sure whether to include or not, and that’s going to be the ACR.

This is a Bushmaster ACR.

These are still technically in production and for sale, but they just haven’t gone anywhere.

They’ve been on the market for a long time, and it almost seems like Remington’s forgotten product.

You know, they promised caliber conversions.

They promised an MSRP below $1500 and both of those things didn’t happen.

Especially the caliber conversion.

That’s actually why I bought this is I was thinking it would be cool to have a rifle where I could, you know, have all of that kind of capability, but what I do like is it has a non-reciprocating charging handle which is something I like better than the star which has quite a slap around there.

It is ambidextrous in pretty much every aspect of the firearm which is nice.

It’s also got a built-in cheek riser.

And a nice adjustable folding stock which is pretty decent in the way of folding stocks.

They can always be a little flimsy on some designs, but the ACR actually did it quite well.

Now, of course, you’ve got a bolt release in a very nice location, and then your magazine release is also ambidextrous.

The controls of this gun are something that I would never complain about.

They’re actually quite good, and I also like that it has the setting for suppressed and one for unsuppressed.

Now, my favorite thing about the gun actually is the way that you change the barrel.

You just pop off the fore-end, and then it’s basically got a built-in lever that allows you to torque the barrel right on there and remove it, and in theory put a 6.8 SBC barrel on there, but it doesn’t look like Remington’s going to deliver on that promise.

So, until then I’ll be very disappointed.

But, you know, it’s kind of sad that this, this rifle didn’t deliver on what was expected of it.

I really like it.

It looks cool.

It shoots well.

It just hasn’t really been a success on the marketplace.

Hopefully the Polish MSBS will fill the void as they do look similar and kind of function similar.

But we’ll see.

Now, next up is going to be the original Bushmaster.

This is Gwinn Firearms Bushmaster rifle.

Not the most handsome firearm on the list.

I would say it’s actually probably one of the uglier guns I own.

It essentially just milled slap-side aluminum with a stainless steel barrel, but you know, form follows function.

So, to understand the history of the modern Bushmaster company, you kind of look at stuff like this and the Bushmaster ARN pistol, and they actually had some native, unique, if not bizarre designs.

This being one of them.

It is a long-stroke piston gun, and this whole top assembly’s how you charge it, and it reciprocates which is, I can see that causing a problem for a multitude of reasons, but the folding stock’s actually quite nice.

That is actual wood on the fore-end for whatever reason.

And it’s even got a lot of components in common with the M16 AR-15 including the take-down pins and so on and so forth.

And then it just clam-shells open which is nice for cleaning.

Now you can see it’s got an AR-15 M16 basically trigger groove with a M16 hammer which is weird.

Kind of unusual to see although not illegal.

And the rear sight removes to field strip the gun which is strange.

Now, to pull out the piston bolt carrier and bolt assembly, remove that little piece, and then it all slides out from the rear which is pretty cool actually.

It’s a very heavy bit of mass that reciprocates inside the gun.

And it is a long stroke piston.

Looks a lot like an, kind of American-ized AK bolt and carrier, I guess.

And all in all, it’s not a bad gun.

Pretty decent actually.

Not attractive, but they work.

They shoot well, and I don’t see this being a high cost firearm.

Everything’s quite simple.

And in the 80s when these were introduced, I’m not quite sure why they took off or why they didn’t take off rather, but who knows? So, this next one is another one that definitely has failed on the American marketplace.

This is a Benelli MR1.

These are gas-breathing rifles with a rotating bolt.

They seem to be a little bit more popular in Europe and Canada, but I can’t even find these for sale new anywhere in the U.S.

I checked before making this video to verify that, and I only found used ones for sale.

So, it seems like Benelli almost has just given up entirely.

Now, there are hunting rifles that use the same action and gas system and everything, but this is the MR1 tactical version, marketed as a home defense gun.

One of the reason’s I think it fails the controls are terrible.

I have very large hands.

You can see I have trouble actuating the bolt release.

The safety’s somewhat intuitive, but I can’t even reach the magazine release with my pointer finger.

I have to actually remove my hand from the grip which to me in this day and age is absolutely unacceptable when you have every other gun on the market where you are basically able to do that.

It also doesn’t shoulder very well.

You can see, to put your, you naturally want to put your eyes as closet to the sight as possible, but it’s configured with essentially a shot gun stock that doesn’t allow you to do that.

The sights leave a little bit to be desired.

There’s a not very adjustable rear one and a front sight post, but I think I would say that I’m kind of glad that the MR1 isn’t that prolific.

They’re not terrible, but they’re not good guns.

Realistically, I would even take a mini 14 over this.

These are a nightmare to disassemble and clean.

The controls aren’t that great, and yeah, I wouldn’t really recommend that you guys buy one, but they’re not the worst option you could take, I suppose.

So lastly, we have probably my favorite gun on the list, the FN Tactical Tuna.

I’m just kidding, this is FS2000 rifle.

It is a Bullpup rifle, chambered in 5.56 like the other rifles on this list.

And, you know, they look very strange, but they’re probably the best shooting gun on the list.

They’re very cool.

They handle oddly, but nothing that you can’t get accustomed to after one day at the range or so.

And they look really bulky when you see a picture of one, but they’re really not that bad.

The thing most people have trouble getting accustomed to is how you check the chamber by lifting the toilet seat and visually inspecting it.

Not ideal, but at least it’s there.

The safety is nice.

It’s ambidextrous because it’s mounted where your trigger finger is inside the trigger guard which is pretty nice.

Now, they eject out the front or you can store about four or five shots in there with the door closed before they eject which is kind of a neat feature actually.

So, they’re kind of weird, the older models, in that they have an optic that’s hidden under the shroud.

And you’re going to laugh when I take it off.

It looks like a cheap BB gun optic, but it’s actually quite decent.

Now, of course you can remove that and mount an acog or whatever eotech if you’re into that.

And then go with it.

I just think it looks so cool with the shroud and the old optic on there.

And then of course, it also has an adjustable gas regulator, making this a very modern, very cool gun.

So this was a tough one to list because while the FS2000 is on FN’s website, they haven’t really produced them or imported any in a while, although they kind of insist that it’s not down and out, however it does seem like they have turned their back to it.

And when you click the link, it actually goes to the military version.

So, I’m pretty sure that they’ve given up on this, but hopefully I’m wrong because they’re very cool.

Anyways guys, big thanks to Ventura Munitions.

Big thanks to you for watching.

I really hope you enjoyed this.

Hope to see you next time.

 


Alex C.

Alex is a Senior Writer for The Firearm Blog and Director of TFBTV. A native Texan with a penchant for gun collecting combined with a degree in History from Baylor University have contributed to a passion for both early and modern firearms. You can reach Alex at acapps@gocapps.com.


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  • Zachary Bradshaw

    That first rifle in the video uses almost the same gas system as an SVT-40. Those are a pain to clean.

    • ostiariusalpha

      The AR-18/AR-180? They’re not that difficult to clean at all.

      • Patrick J

        I had an AR 180 for a few years and my roommate has an SL-8 (civilian neutered G36). The piston systems are great on both, and almost identical. They are self regulating, and self scraping, so you shouldn’t have to clean them. I’ve never cleaned an SVT-40 piston before, so I can’t comment on that.

      • Zachary Bradshaw

        I don’t mean that it’s actually hard to clean, just more involved than say an AK or AR.

        • jcitizen

          At least you don’t end up knocking out the carbon with a punch pin or firing pin to get the built up carbon out of the back of the bolt piston chamber.

    • Kivaari

      I liked the AR180. I remember dropping magazines regardless of how I carried it. A foggy memory told me it was on the left hand side and bumped gear. Then I remembered it was on the RHS and moving my arm about hit the release. To me that was a very bad design. I had 2 of them, and found them to be very accurate rifles when shooting Herter’s (Norma) ammunition. The factory scope was odd as because the post was upside down.

  • GUNxSPECTRE

    Great video!

    The only thing I actually liked about the ACR was the stock. Luckily Kinetic Development Group sells a clone of it for the FN SCAR, which I’m looking forward to getting one. The whole development of the ACR was just a fustercluck. Apparently Remington makes the better version of the rifle, but I haven’t really caught up to the latest news about how well it performs.

    But the Benelli MR1. I would say that of the list, the MR1 would probably be the #1 failure. Sure, the internals might be solid, but it’s almost as if the designer wanted to make the controls awkward, like it were for hunting. Do we need tactical reloads to hunt deer? Well, it certainly doesn’t hurt to have it.
    It’s pretty obvious they wanted to have the MR1 tactical because it had that cool collapsible stock that’s also on Benelli M4 shotguns.

    • Green Hell

      That’s not a clone of the ACR stock, that’s an actual ACR stock, Magpul makes them for Bushmaster and Remington. I don’t know why Magpul still haven’t made their own SCAR stock, after all they have stocks for FAL’s and G3’s in their catalogue, along with such rare stuff like G36, AUG and SA80 mags.

      • GUNxSPECTRE

        Form and function? They’re identical. KDG ACTUALLY calling them “Bushmaster/Remington ACR Stocks” wouldn’t play nice with the lawyers at all. Hence the “SCAR Adjustable Stock” (SAS), hence use of the term “clone”. As far as I know, Bushmaster nor Remington are manufacturing them and giving them to KDG to sell as a vendor. Which makes me wonder how KDG are allowed to go ahead and market them off.

        If you ask me, it was probably a mistake for them to design and sell FAL and G3 stocks. That requires a lot of money to do, but not so much with mags. And probably the reason they haven’t done so with the SCAR; there really isn’t a huge market for SCARs. Not big enough to pour stuff into R&D anyway. The inverse of it being AK furniture, and see how long that took.
        Hell, if someone has a SCAR and is in love with their Magpul stock, they can just use a VLTOR stock adapter.

        • Green Hell

          Because, like i said, Bushmaster and Remington doesn’t make this stock, it’s outsorced to Magpul , i think KDG specificly said they contacted Magpul directly to supply them.

    • Kivaari

      The HK SL7 and SL8 have a safety switch on the left side of the stock where it just should not be. HK screwed up many guns. Like the awkward selector on the MP5 and G3. Just out of reach of the thumb, so the gun has to be moved around to use it.

  • Bill

    I’m not sure the FS2000 is a failure so much as it isn’t a success. I’d love to have one and kick myself over the missed opportunities. FN kind of overshadowed it by pushing the SCAR more vigorously. The FS got lost between the SCAR and the P90.

    • Green Hell

      SCAR-L failed just as much as any other 5.56 “AR-15 alternatives” on the list, it’s the SCAR-H that just hit the spot, there was an obvious demand for a modern light .308 battle rifle to replace M14/FAL/G3, since AR-10 platform hasn’t been refined and standardized as nearly much as AR-15’s over the years. The potential “replacer” of an AR-15 should do much better job than just add a few uncignificant ergonomical features for the price of extra bulk, weight and couple grands of MSRP.

      • Bill

        Great points, I hadn’t considered the two variants “separately.”

  • Jack Morris

    If the FS2000 failed for any one reason; it would be the trigger. I have literally played with Nerf guns that have a smoother and more sensitive break. Such a cool gun theoretically, but I could never justify buying such an expensive firearm with such an abysmal trigger pull.

    • Kyle

      That and for a long time they cost north of two grand. That kind of money buys one hell of an AR. Still I have always thought they were neat as hell and want one.

      • BattleshipGrey

        I always wanted one too, but they were so far out of my league. I love the shorter package, but I just couldn’t justify spending $500+ more than an AR to save 6 inches (or whatever the diff is).

        • TexianPatriot

          That’s what she said…

      • Lt_Scrounge

        That kind of money buys multiple tricked out ARs where I shop. Of course I didn’t get this nickname by paying full retail for everything that crosses my path.

    • gunsandrockets

      I was wondering about that very issue. Bullpups have pretty bad trigger reputations.

      • cwp

        The bullpup design makes it more difficult to get a good trigger on one, but it’s not impossible. The stock Tavor trigger is pretty unpleasant, for instance, but some of the the aftermarket replacements are quite good. Of course, we’re talking about adding another $350 to the cost of an already expensive rifle. It’s a tough sell when you can get two ARs with good triggers for the same price.

        • Lt_Scrounge

          Two? I just picked up an Adams Arms gas piston AR NEW for about a third of what a Tavor is going for.

    • Green Hell

      No, this is not a “one reason” guns like FS2000 failed, if it was sold for 1000$ or even 1500, people would grab them like hot cakes whatever triger there is.

      • BrandonAKsALot

        You have to really understand FNs production to start getting these guns for better prices. They alternate tooling for many guns including the FS2k and PS90, so they only get produced once a year or so. If you wait a few months after you see them fitting dealers, you’ll start seeing the prices drop everywhere, plus they pop up second hand. I have bought 2 and paid $1600 for the first and $1400 for the second.

      • Wanderlust

        Your right about the price point. I picked mine up new for $1550 and have held onto it, The trigger is a bit rough but in every other regard I haven’t had problems. I like it enough that its a keeper.

    • BrandonAKsALot

      It’s a fairly simple process to improve the trigger. It’s never going to be wonderful because they choose to follow the AUG design so it can do the whole semi and full auto thing on the auto setting. A little cleanup on the contract surfaces and polishing the trigger rods goes a long way. Granted, a firearm of that price shouldn’t require it, but combat guns won’t have m match triggers either.

    • Robert Powell

      The trigger on the FS2000 isn’t great but I prefer it to the AUG or Tavor. The initial pull sucks but the reset is extremely short. Once you get used to it, it is very easy to modulate making the rifle much easier to shoot accurately. The same can’t be said for the disaster that is the Tavor trigger. It is terrible pull after pull.

      • Tritro29

        Yeah actually it’s very simple. The F2000S was priced too steeply for the US market. That’s it. The trigger non-sense in comparison to the Tavor is just a fig leaf.

        • Robert Powell

          I think I paid the same for each rifle. They are/were probably both overpriced.

    • Vhyrus

      What killed the FS2000 was not the trigger, it was the fact that most AR magazines won’t work with it. Not only will they not work, but many of them will jam the gun so badly you need to completely break apart the shell in order to fix it, a process requiring several tools and about 20 minutes worth of work.

    • TheMaskedMan

      I couldn’t get the FS2000 to fit right on my shoulder, and the trigger is almost universally reviled. It was playing catch-up from the get go, and I think the Tavor put the final nail in the coffin.

      • Nick

        The trigger in it must be pretty bad if a Tavor was able to best it. I love the Tavor, don’t get me wrong, but the trigger is ridiculously heavy and almost unpleasant without replacement or modification.

        • TheMaskedMan

          Bullpup’s aren’t going to have the best triggers due to their design, but the FS2000 was especially bad. Heavy and mushy.

  • Kyle

    That MR1 looks so much like any member of the Super 90 series of shotguns it is freaky. I don’t know why but the lines on that gun really bothers me. Everything about it screams “I’m a shotgun!” but it isn’t.

    • Green Hell

      Because the gun was obviously intended with sporter stock, that’s why the pistol grip seems to be attached so awkwardly. I wounder if sales were any good in ban states.

      • iksnilol

        Looks the same as the M4 (shotgun) grip and stock.

    • Kyle

      Found a side by side.

      • Green Hell

        MR1 ComforTech with a normal stock. I think it looks great.

        • DW

          But it’s (rightfully) slightly more expensive than pistolgripped version.

        • Lt_Scrounge

          That stock moves the shooter’s hand much closer to the trigger guard so it should reduce the reach needed to get to the magazine release and other controls.

          • The Raven

            I’ve owned a MR1 for about five years and have about 4K rounds run through it.

            It does take getting used to AND cleaning it’s a pain but it’s been pretty solid. It can be touchy about mags but most 2nd gen PMAGS and EMAGS run fine. Cheapo BS mags need not apply.

            Is it my mainline rifle? No but it’s a good back up or one I can hand to my wife and say “Watch my back…”.

      • Can we get a side-by side of the hunting rifle variation?

  • Just say’n

    Great list, thought for sure it would include the Kel-tec SU-16. Not a bad AR alternative from what I hear, just can’t find one for sale (like almost everything Kel-tec).

    • Just Say’in

      Never mind, the more U think about it the SU-16 really doesn’t belong in the same category as the AR. The SU is a niche product. Doubt very many people cross-shop the two.

      • The Raven

        If you want something different, the SU-16C isn’t bad.

        Good trunk guns.

  • ostiariusalpha

    Ah, the FS2000, the tastiest tactical tuna from amongst the fish guns of the 90’s & Aughts. It’s very much a transitional form of what one should expect in a bullpup rifle: sitting somewhere between the old-school AUG, FAMAS, & SA-80, and the better, more ergonomic future of the Desert Tech MDR & Fabrika Broni MSBS. There’s so much to admire about how it improved over the classic bullpups; as Alex points out, the rifle is actually quite robust and wonderfully ambidextrous. The exception to both of those qualities is the surprisingly delicate charging handle, but otherwise it is great to shoot from either hand (even one-handed) in just about any environmental conditions. Unfortunately, there weren’t enough imaginative features added to avert some irritating drawbacks that made it into the design. The clunky trigger is improvable, but never impressive; the magwell was designed before polymer mags became desirable, and so doesn’t readily accept anything that’s not an exact dimensional match for a standard U.S.G.I. aluminum mag unless the internal gaskets are removed or greatly modified; and clearing malfunctions is more involved than with most other bullpup & standard rifles. It’s a nice gun to own and very fun to shoot for leisure, but it wasn’t fundamentally ambitious enough to challenge the established market at the price-point it was offered at.

  • Mike Price

    What about the Dawoo?

    • Kivaari

      One of the models were nice rifles, and I can’t tell you which one that was. But, they did break trigger or hammer pin. Again I can’t tell you which one as I haven’t seen one in 25 years. They had a nice 9mm pistol as well.

    • kregano

      That got hit by the AWB and they stopped selling them, IIRC. It’s less of a failure of the gun as much as the financial viability of bringing it in, I guess.

    • iksnilol

      Fantastic cars 😛

  • The Bellman

    Wasn’t the AR 18 a huge success with the Provisional IRA?

  • Joe

    So, the FS2000 is 3.2″ wide, and 5.56 is 2.26″ long. Wish they’d based the rifle on the P90 design elements.

  • Dylan

    Sad to see the AR-180 was a flop. I have a Sterling manufactured gun, and despite mostly sitting in my safe (parts being non existent is a major driving force behind that decision), I do enjoy showing it to others and may take it to the range with me once in a blue moon.

  • The AR-180 looks like a crude piece of crap.

    • jcitizen

      The Bushmaster was the most butt ugly rifle I’ve ever seen. But then I can’t recall a lot these days.

  • MrEllis

    Fail whale!

  • kregano

    If you want a good looking stamped 5.56 rifle, look at the Leader T2.

  • PK

    It’s an engineer vs consumer scenario. I think the simplicity is beautiful as well.

  • Lance

    Id add the SCAR sorry crappy plastic parts and the reciprocating handle that tore you up are not really worth the over priced price tag.

    Only US alternative that had any civilian and Police success is the Mini-14. Some how the classic wood design draws some shooters and Police departments too the classic Ruger design.

  • Machinegunnertim

    Why won’t FN adapt their designs or offer them in different calibers? Even the Kriss Vector is finally catching up. Sig figured it out years ago. FN puts out a rifle and never changes it for improvements.

  • MichaelZWilliamson

    In before some hater insists the AR15 failed.

  • MichaelZWilliamson

    The AR18/180 came out as Vietnam was winding down, and couldn’t find a US market. Howa in Japan made it, but their contract specified no military sales. The IRA bought some from the US, and that certainly didn’t help the image. They even wrote a song about it. “My Little Armalite.”

    • jcitizen

      I’ve had veterans that were in the Air Force special guards units that told me they were using AR-18s starting in the mid ’60s, and were fairly ubiquitous that way. I don’t know why many historic accounts seem to ignore that fact. These guys were similar to the Army’s special forces, but were primarily nuclear weapon transport guards. Many documentary films show other Air Force personnel carrying and using them quite often, despite the official weapon being the Colts. Most rifles I ran into in civilian markets were built in Sterling England. We rarely ran into original Costa Mesa or Howa weapons.

      • MichaelZWilliamson

        Interesting. I hadn’t heard that part. It’s not impossible. USAF often has hand-me-downs from the Army, or parts guns, or mission-specific kits. Any pics I can add to my archive?

        • jcitizen

          I’m beginning to think the docu-drama TV shows I saw in the late 60s were using Hollywood rented AR-18s adding to my confusion on the subject – these were supposed to be factual documentaries, but you know how TV things go when doing re-enactments for the public consumption – however all I can offer is anecdotal testimony from a Senior Master Sergeant who was stationed in Vietnam, who saw them issued ( maybe from South Vietnamese armories), he also personally requested a Thompson M1928 with a drum magazine for defense against those sapper charges on their perimeter defense. (circa 1969 thru ’72) He could only requisition those from the South Vietnamese, because only the US Navy was still keeping them on ships and bases back then.

          The other person, was a police science instructor who was a nuclear guard in the Air Force, and he said they were using them just before he left the service in the early ’70s. The only logical reason I can think of for using these in special services is the folding stock made it easier to get in and out of armored cars, that they used for those guards, while transporting nuclear weapons from base to base, and the QD scope feature, that may have been desired. Both these men were well versed on military arms and their use, so I doubt they misidentified anything.

          • MichaelZWilliamson

            Both of those stories are reasonable. Wartime requisition can be all over the place, and Raven teams and such might have had either experimental or specific purchase weapons.

            I know DoD bought SOME, but it was hundreds, not tens of thousands.

  • Leigh Rich

    Great review. Thank you.

  • Frankie D

    Back in the 70’s, our team had 5 of the 180’s and 5 of the full auto 18’s. They were very reliable and accurate. They also had a “V” plate on top of the receiver that you could snap in the low magnification Armalite scope…It was a great little gun, and nobody seemed to have any problems with the reciprocating bolt feature.

    • jcitizen

      That was the first quick disconnect scope I had used that didn’t change zero, while mounting or dismounting.

      • Frankie D

        Yep, one sweet little setup that was ahead of its time. Wish I would have bought one back then. Woulda, coulda, shoulda.

  • Lt_Scrounge

    Fn got a lot of affordable publicity from the Hunger Games movies. Probably took a lot of white krylon to make all of the FS2000s and Vektor CP1 pistols white though. I don’t think I would want to be the guy back at the weapons rental place that has to remove all of that white paint.

  • Scott Hannah

    I would like to see what Jack M would say about the older Bushmaster Bullpup.The MS17 rifle.There is now a company that’s bringing it back. http://www.kmarms.com/
    I just wish it could eject from the left side or the top or bottom.I shoot left handed:)

  • Mikial

    All very cool stuff, but after carrying various AR/M16/M4 variants in the military and private high risk security settings for more than a couple of decade, the reason nothing replaced the AR is because not many things are more versatile or reliable or effective. Period.

    Yeah . . yeah . . go ahead and flame me, but they do work. The old issues the Viet Nam vets harp on were more ammunition that rifle problems, and I carried M4s in Iraq for over two years. Yup, some sucked. I was issued a bushmaster SBR by one employer that wasn’t worth a thing. Failed to eject and feed constantly. Left that employer and the next one issued us Colt M4s that ticked like a clock. never failed. Ever.

    Many of the military units of the world have used M4s, and they will continue to do so.

  • jcitizen

    Jay agree with Mongo. Otherwise the Army didn’t adopt it primarily because it couldn’t pass the boot test in boosting a soldier over an obstacle while stepping on the receiver as two other troops held the rifle as a ladder. This would warp the cheap stamped steel more than mil spec allowed. The Air Force loved them. Oddly enough the folding stock is unstable enough to be distracting, even though I was able to consistently hit small prairie dogs at 300 meters or more. I used to get the barrel quite hot using 40 round magazines. BTW, magazines were not hard to get in the late 70s to mid 80s, as the magazine suppliers were pushing all of them to fit both AR platforms. I remember thinking that I liked the fact it didn’t need that stupid tube in the back for the bolt spring, and yet it was every bit as controllable as an AR-15. The AR-18 was just as controllable in full auto too, while practicing with the local police sergeant.

  • jcitizen

    I’ve heard a lot of songs about Thompson gunners too. Not sure when they were used, as the IRA has a long history.

  • Dolphy

    Oh, so here you love on the AR180, but in your Top 5 Overrated Guns piece, you’re bashing it like a misbehaving nail.