Rifles vs. Ice, from Military Arms Channel

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Debris testing has been done to death. Here at TFB, we’ve covered mud and sand tests conducted by InRange TV, Guns & Ammo TV, and the Military Arms Channel on everything from the AKAR-15 to the Vz. 58. So what about ice, instead?

Tim of the Military Arms Channel has posted a video on his channel of a test between his Colt 6920, SIG MCX, Beretta ARX-100, and a Krebs AC-15. The test is below, with discussion after:

The results of the test was as follows:

MCX – Safety very stiff, fires all 30 rounds but doesn’t lock open, sluggish operation, mag release frozen

ARX – Selector moved more easily, fires all 30 and locks open, mag release works fine

Krebs – Safety works fine, fires first round, zhukov stock broke when attempting mortar gun open, fired second round and bolt stuck again, then fires all 30 rounds. Mag release works fine

Colt – Safety very stiff, trigger reset sluggish fires all 30 no lock open, sluggish operation, mag release frozen

So, as Tim notes at the end of the video, this was not the most scientific test ever. Debris tests are hard enough to conduct consistently, but testing for freezing water probably takes the cake. It is very difficult to predict where water would pool and freeze inside the action, and with such a small sample size very few conclusions could be drawn about how consistently each rifle would perform. In fact, three of the rifles are put out of action in one way or another, with the ARX-100 being the only one that doesn’t suffer major obstruction, despite not having significant design differences to the MCX and AR-15 in the areas where they had problems.

For another data set, in 1984, Alaska State Trooper Jeffery Hall, acting on behalf of the Division of Alaska State Troopers, conducted a thorough test of rifles in arctic conditions. Interestingly, the AR-15 pattern weapons exhibited the same malfunctions as the Colt 6920 and SIG MCX in the MAC test, but the three AK-derived rifles in the test did not have any issues aside from one stovepipe with the FNC. Also worth noting is that the M16 in the test failed to fire five rounds (just a guess on my part – possibly due to ice in the firing pin channel). The Alaska State Trooper tests also differed from the MAC test in that it apparently was conducted with empty chambers. Although the tests performed for the Alaska State Troopers selection were thorough, it should be noted that they, like the MAC tests, were not entirely scientific. That means that with either test, few firm conclusions can be drawn. What would be required to make more definitive statements about the resistance of the rifles in question versus freezing water would be extensive, repeated testing with a larger sample size, and appropriate control subjects.

Finally, something should be said about the Zhukov stock on the Krebs AC-15. While I was not expecting the stock to fail, the polymer used by Magpul for their magazines and furniture has received a reputation for brittleness in cold conditions. This has held true in my experience, as several of my Magpul PMag Gen 2 magazines broke while shooting in freezing conditions several years ago when I lived in a colder climate. This doesn’t mean that Magpul furniture or magazines are bad, but they are clearly not ideal for those who live in cold climates. With regards to the Zhukov stock in particular, its combination of probable poor cold weather durability and lackluster durability when folded make it not my first choice for a folding AK stock.


Nathaniel F

Nathaniel is a history enthusiast and firearms hobbyist whose primary interest lies in military small arms technological developments beginning with the smokeless powder era. In addition to contributing to The Firearm Blog, he runs 196,800 Revolutions Per Minute, a blog devoted to modern small arms design and theory. He can be reached via email at nathaniel.f@staff.thefirearmblog.com.


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  • ostiariusalpha

    … And that’s why I don’t have a Zhukov stock on my AK. 😝

    • tb556

      Magpul sucks in general. I wouldn’t trust any of their equipment, probably because I remember their Gen 1 magazines. I still use Gen 1 Lancer mags and AW mags, I’ve always had confidence in them.

      • Joshua

        Oddly enough Magpul M3s have been tested to -60 and still functioned and are the only magazines to properly feed M855A1.

        It’s enough so that the US Army is copying the feed lip angle and follower of the Pmag M3 for their new GI mag coming this year.

        • The HRM? I thought that used an even more aggressive feed angle than the M3s.

      • ostiariusalpha

        A lot of 1st generation Lancer mags had weak springs and would loose rounds if you even slightly bumped them, but the AWM are pretty solid and that’s what I use.

        • tb556

          Mine are from 09 and 15. The awm mags have larger metal feedlips and a plastic follower instead of rubber, and a different follower. Spring on pressure on my unused 09 and 15 mags feels about the same. I can’t say I’ve ever heard of the issue you are describing, especially on a wide scale. I’ve never had a malfunction with my 20 or 30 round mags. Admin won’t post the picture link I have of split pmags but Google Image search ” pmag cracked ” and there are dozens of photos.

          • ostiariusalpha

            Oh, I’m well aware of the PMag issues; and Nate’s covered it pretty well in his articles. The majority of 1st gen Lancer mags were (mostly) fine, but there was a persistent issue of weak springs on one of their production runs that got past QA. It was actually a bit of a pickle for them.

          • tb556

            Going back to my original point, there are better options for the same or less money than anything made by magpul.

          • ostiariusalpha

            Well, I have my own opinions about that, but what would you recommend as better than a UBR or SL stock? I’d be interested in your specific recommendations.

          • tb556

            Vltor. Also, go ahead and get the last word in since I’m sure you’ll continue posting long after I lose interest in you ability to ‘win’ an online conversation.

          • ostiariusalpha

            It isn’t about winning, you just say a lot of uninformed stuff sometimes, chief. Which isn’t relevant here, since I’m actually soliciting your opinion with no hostile subterfuge intended. VLTOR makes excellent stocks, I’ve owned an EMOD before and liked it very much. Was there something in particular you liked about the VLTOR product that lead you to pick it over a BCM Gunfighter or other stock?

          • Oh my god, people, they are just stocks! My Colt literally has a Tapco on it and I’ve never needed anything else.

          • n0truscotsman

            You know very well that without your LMT SOPMOD stock, you are basically amateur. Tier 3. You want to strive to be Tier 1 operator 😉

          • iksnilol

            To be honest, considering how cold the winters get in Norway I guess I’d take the tapco over the Magpul… especially mags. Only polymer I really trust is the Bulgarian Circle 10 clipazines.

          • ostiariusalpha

            Ermahgerd, peepuhl, they’re just magazines! My *insert irrelevant manufacturer here* loads the boolits just as fine from a Tapco mag as it does from an HK.

          • BrandonAKsALot

            But those 103 mags though….

          • iksnilol

            Never gotten my hands on them. I use Bulgarian Circle 10 and steel mags in my AK.

            Russian polymer I guess is fine due to the whole Siberia thing.

          • BrandonAKsALot

            They are all made of glass filled nylon. The difference is Russian and Bulgarian mags have steel reinforcements embedded in key areas, so they don’t break.

          • iksnilol

            Do the 103 mags have the steel reinforcement?

            If yes, then count me in.

            If not, then count me out.

          • BrandonAKsALot

            Indeed they do. The last full production magazine Russia made without steel reinforcements was the second generation of 7.62×39 Bakelites. That was the early 60s. There have been a few “experimental” mags that didn’t, but mostly because they seem to have been test runs.

          • iksnilol

            Thumbs up from comrade it is then. 😛

            Oooh, I forgot about the bakelite mags, I love those things. Looks badass and is durable from what I have experienced.

          • BrandonAKsALot

            I love them too and have been going broke buying them. I have damn near one of every variation at this point. They really are impressive for mags made over 50 years ago. They can be brittle, but usually a crack or ding doesn’t go very far thanks to all the fiber filler and reinforcements.

          • I disagree, the Gen 2 PMags are the best bang for the buck for training magazines on a static range, next to bargain bin USGIs.

            Also, I will fanboy endlessly over Magpul 20 round 5.56 PMags, those are awesome.

          • n0truscotsman

            Those anecdotes are nice and everything, but ultimately a poor indicator of overall quality when it comes to magpul. Since their magazines are used about as much as USGI mags, it is unsurprising there are individual samples that are faulty.

            This is the same argument I have heard in a gunshop in regards to glock, “oh just google search, ”glock kaboom!” Id never recommend them”….yeah okay. Whatever guy /rolls eyes/

            I still have G2 magpuls Ive been running since I was on active duty, and they’re still serviceable to this day, despite having something north of 20k round cycled through them. I have lancers and others as well that have run fine, although if you are searching for range or combat mags, magpuls are excellent bang for the buck.

            As far as stocks go, http://gearscout.militarytimes.com/2012/02/01/buttstock-bashfest-gearscout-finds-out-just-how-far-tough-talk-goes/#prettyPhoto

            This is a pretty good indicator of durability, if you really want to get bent out of shape over comparing what product to what.

            I think people get too wrapped around the axle over this gear stuff.

      • Basil Sever Moulds

        Just going to throw this in. The UBR has been the greatest AR stock I’ve ever used or ran across… Might be heavy for some but it’s plenty stout.

      • Bob

        I use the COLT aluminum magazines that are 20 rounders.
        I’ve always had the plastic ones fail as shown below with the cracks.

  • Basil Sever Moulds

    I’ve had two polymer 80% lowers fall apart right at the rear takedown pin in -20 weather up at the Canada border in Minnesota after only 20-30 rounds. Cracked vertically right down to the grip. I thought it was possibly due to the JP silent buffer system allowing the bolt to ride into the tube with more force then a standard buffer spring. Who knows. Just sharing.

    • iksnilol

      Eh, some JB weld and good as new 😉

      • Basil Sever Moulds

        Maybe after a nice rough bevel on the crack lol…. just like welding pipe together? pull it this way and that way… some stress wont screw up the NDT test..

    • Basil Sever Moulds

      Just wanted to add they were polymer80 brand. The jmt tactical gen 2 fired 1000 rounds that day no cracking lol.

      • Flounder

        that’s kinda funny because I had my JMT gen 2 lower crack right through the rear takedown pin as well and I had a jp silent buffer system in there… JMT already sent me a new lower though so I can’t complain too much.

        And by funny I mean it completely sucks an unbelievable amount.

        • Basil Sever Moulds

          Polymer80 never replied to my phone calls. I’ll have to pull the jmt out of the stash and throw it back on a rifle and see if it will crack. Thank you for the heads up buddy! BTW have a round count on the replacement jmt with the silent buffer?

    • I gotta say, you know how people make fun of the Russians for using wood and resin parts for so long?

      That is probably a clue as to why…

      • Basil Sever Moulds

        Agreed. Purchasing the polymer lowers was more or less practice runs on the milling machine vs over milling aluminum lowers. Not going to lie I was pretty curious to what the hype over them was… I feel bad for the guy that has to finish them in the garage with a hand drill and a dremel.

      • iksnilol

        So… Wood and resin lower for AR?

        • Basil Sever Moulds

          Maybe I should get some nice treated and hit the mill lol

  • Don Ward

    Finally. A more realistic stress test of a weapon.

    • JumpIf NotZero

      Why lulz? Help us out, explain the right way please!

      What did he do wrong? Or rather, how do YOU fix the issue? What if the gun doesn’t have a reciprocating charging handle like the AK?

      Maybe if everyone else knows this method, but you say lulz… I’d love to know what the “proper” method of clearing is. Maybe we could all learn something here?

      • Don Ward

        Who let you back in here? Guys, when you leave the yard, remember to latch the gate!

        • iksnilol

          I dunno, now it is you being mean.

    • DW

      It’s a easily replaced part on a common production rifle, it doesn’t really hurt if he safely trashed the gun that way.

      • DW

        *an
        RIP my spelling

  • Joshua

    So can we use the excuse that he used a POS AK?

    • The Wound Channel

      ALWAYS

    • Tritro29

      I see an American waffle bat failing to resist Ded Moroz. You see an AK in there? wink wink.

    • BabyWookie

      Are you trying to be sarcastic? Because it definitely is a POS AK with a POS after-market stock. Century RAS is a well-known turd by this point and no matter what overpriced accessories of his Mark Krebs puts on it, it will still be. The equivalent in the AR world wound be an Olympic Arms Plinker or DPMS or something. MagPul Zhukov stock, while a decent design in theory, has also been proven to not be up to snuff. Hopefully, Magpul will improve it in the next generation though.

      It’s funny they put up a RAS against a friggin’ mil spec AR “golden standard” that’s Colt. The correct weapon to test against it (or at least “close enough”) would be an Arsenal SGL31-91 or at least an SLR-104.

      • Joshua

        Did you see the sand test before this one where the Arsenal 107 choked after 1 round?

        • Well, it failed to cycle, it didn’t lock up or anything so far as I can tell. I bet they could have kept it running manually.

  • Joshua

    I also want to point out that it’s not the polymer Magpul uses that’s the issue.

    It’s the polymer latch. Failure at the latch point is also a common failure for the SCAR platform when mortared or dropped in cold temps.

    • I know what Magpullium is made of (it’s a thermoset plastic), and you’re right. It’s not “Magpul’s polymer” that’s the problem, it’s – and I’m generalizing here, not all polymers are made equal, obviously – “polymer”. I was going to actually have a paragraph linking the Zhukov stock’s failure to the G36’s troubles, but I forgot.

      • Joshua

        Magpul uses a different polymer since the M3.

        The M3 has passed Military arctic trials which are at -60. I also have never seen a Magpul stock for the AR fail, and this stock didn’t break at the stock part.

        It broke at the place all polymer folding stocks break….at the polymer latch. Like I mentioned, the SCAR has a habit of breaking here as well.

        • Right, and I don’t know about the M3s, I am just talking about the Gen 2s.

          I think we both agree the Zhukov isn’t strong enough and that you need a steel hinge/latch mechanism or else your folder is liable to break.

          • ostiariusalpha

            Yep, steel hinge and I would be sold on it. The fixed MOE stock is light & tough enough though.

          • 100-series folder for me, mate. 😉

          • ostiariusalpha

            I swear to god, your Russian twin must have designed that stock. It was a pain in the neck for me.

          • Hmmm, I didn’t like it at first, eithr, but now I’m so used to it I can’t complain.

          • Squirreltakular

            I’m surprised that the aftermarket hasn’t delivered on a replacement yet, bu then again I have no idea how difficult that part might be to replace.

    • mechamaster

      Magpul need to improve the Zhukov foldingstock a little bit with metal-reinforced hinge. But maybe it’s just a placebo.

      • Joshua

        Agreed. Any polymer folding stock needs a steel latch, polymer cannot withstand the abuse stock latches see.

      • JSmath

        Metal-reinforced hinge or polymer-reinforced metal hinge? 😉

        • mechamaster

          ‘metal-reinforced hinge’ haha. ^^

          • JSmath

            I’m hoping that with a bit of egg on their face from this video, Magpul just makes the leap to add the option for a completely metal hinge. As many here know, some manufacturers offer the option for this exact reason ~ Mako/FAB Defense comes to mind.

          • Joshua

            That’s actually what is needed.

          • mechamaster

            Yes, hopefully they listened the user feedback as soon as possible.

      • n0truscotsman

        Like I’ve said before. The only thing companies have to do is LITERALLY COPY THE DAMN RUSSIAN DESIGNS!

        Its not that hard to do and whatever they did back east, you can bet there is a good reason they did it.

        Them metal locking lugs on the polymer AK mags? yeah those aren’t just there for looks. The metal locking latch on the folding stocks also isn’t just ‘there’.

        You would think this is something they would already know, but apprently not.

  • Xeno Da Morph

    oh….

  • Pete Sheppard

    Since folding stocks are the current topic, Google CNC/Bonesteel Galil-style metal folding stocks.

  • LOL half my Gen 2s look like that.

  • I agree, and here are some additional comments:

    1. When you have a gun with such “mythical reliability” as the AK, almost any shortcoming or limitation, however minor, is enough to fall short of what people believe.

    2. I doubt that the “ultimate reliability” myth was spread by the Soviets. Sure, the Russians have long been proud of the AK, but I think most of the AK mythology has been proliferated by Westerners being hard on the AR.

    3. The AR-15 is an excellent rifle, and the perception distortion more comes from it being a weapon that’s virtually unparalleled with a trashed reputation than it does from other guns being secretly garbage. The AK, for example, is a fine rifle that will work great most of the time and in most conditions, and that even has a few (very minor) advantages versus an AR-15, but the AR-15 is just such a fabulous design that it causes shell shock in people when they figure out that for the most part the trash talk it receives is completely false.

    • Tormund Giantsbane

      I like AKs because I like their history and purpose more. They were designed in a time when a war had been won with PPSHs carried by soldiers who clung to the sides of tanks, didn’t have any body armor and didn’t have much or any training against an army that would have made them extinct. It’s a weapon born out of the experiences of a desperate time, and the history and sacrifice of the Russian people that it represents is nothing short of amazing to me.

      AR-15s are accurate, reliable, modular, and neat. They were also churned out by a corporation looking to sell a product to a military, and while that is a form of American patriotism in and of itself it does not to me have the same soul and beauty that the AK has.

      • borne

      • Patriot Gunner

        Hey rock on man! If the AK is what appeals to you then more power to you. I hope what I’ve said is not misinterpreted as a diatribe, I still like and shoot AK’s, but for a multitude of reasons I just prefer the AR.

      • Uniform223

        You seriously rock!

        I have the same feeling about the 1911.

        I was at a gun store looking around and the guy tried to steer me to a Glock. No kidding he said to me, “the 1911 is more of a life style pistol than actual service or defensive pistol”.

        I have a simple bare bone basic Government model 1911A1 and I’d trust that more than any Glock or Sig out there.

      • MichaelZWilliamson

        Those corporations have to compete in trials. The Soviets had basically two designs, very similar.

        The AR was not “churned out.” It’s a heck of a lot easier to make an AK.

        Corporations are precisely the point of capitalism vs communism, with a central authority.

        The primary concern with the AK was avoiding cold weather malfunctions, hence the relatively loose tolerances.

        This video shows how well that worked.

        But, both platforms have proven reliable enough to last over a half century in dozens of nations’ militaries.

    • M

      The FAL IMO has arguably more of an unbreakable mythical status around it than the AK mainly because many people can’t afford to buy one and they’re quite expensive to shoot. They then go off tall tales people talk about on forums.
      After having owned one (DSA), IMO they’re fun to shoot, have great ergos, and are functional but are in no way the most accurate, reliable beasts the internet makes it out to be.

      • kyphe

        Was that factory or a parts kit FAL? only a tiny fraction of FAL in the US are factory which is why it gets a bad rap for accuracy there where most are thrown together as cheaply as possible.

        Edit sorry I missed the DSA part, no idea how they stack up tbh

        • Bob

          I have a parts kit gun built with STG 58 Belgian parts, an Imbel receiver, and it works great and shoots about 1-1/2 to 2 inches.
          Also have a SAR 48 (a Brazillian imported from Springfield Armory) and it shoots not a whole lot better, but it is accurate enough for “one minute of man” and / or you only need a 3 minute rifle to WIN an NRA match if you are a GOOD shooter.!

          • ihatelibs

            I STILL LOVE My M-1

          • jcitizen

            My FAL is similar – only with Israeli parts and a Brazilian semi auto receiver. It shot like yours out of the shop, but putting a good custom flash suppressor on it made it shoot MOA with great regularity. The ammo was old atrocious surplus, so I was very impressed. With that kind of accuracy, I have no problems with any other functional peccadilloes it might have. It is already way more reliable than the M14 I was issued in the mid 1970’s!!

          • Bob

            WOW… you were issued an M14 in the mid 70’s !
            that surprises me. I thought the whole US ARmy had converted over to “the dark side” the M-16.

          • jcitizen

            I was in ROTC training in college, that was all we had. I don’t think even the National Guard was fully issued the M16A1 yet. Ours were semi-only as the selector switch was blocked out. They were heavy on patrols, but I loved the solid machined steel, and would have fallen completely in love with them, were it not for that TAC NCO’s disapproval. He said the pure firepower of the M16 made ambushes in the jungle an absolute wipe out to the enemy. They could get Charley shooting at each other using the sneaky tactics they employed. When I went active I adopted his attitude and always carried as many bandoleers draped on me as I could carry.

          • Bob

            yep, When in the infantry section I’d carry 7 bandoleers of 7 TWENTY round magazines on me, so I had 51 mags.
            What would really break up the ambushes was the good old Ma Duece. We had 3 M48a3’s and 7 APC’s per platoon and each one had at LEAST one 50 on it.

          • jcitizen

            Out standing brother!

          • M

            Pretty much the same performance I get.
            I kinda view the FAL as a jack of all trades rifle with its attributes.
            It isn’t the utter best at anything but it doesn’t really let you down on much either.

            When used within the limit it was made for (as a service rifle for the rifleman so they can engage a target a 300-~550 yds, not as a DMR like the M14, etc.), it does it’s job very well and very consistently.
            IMO that is why it was adopted for use by so many countries.

          • Bob

            I agree..

  • Joshua

    Got any info on those outside of a picture? None look like M3 mags.

  • Joshua

    That’s cute, you got any real experiences here or just google?

  • Joshua

    The main difference is we never hosed our weapons down with water.

  • piqued

  • datimes

    I cringe everytime he drops his rifles.

  • Simon

    You wanna know what’s crazy? In the Philippines AR-15 patterned rifles are actually held in high regard, carried by both the good guys and the bad guys. You would think Islamic separatists would be using AK’s but that’s not the case down there at all. They pretty much call any black rifle an ‘Armalite’ (Even M249 SAWs aren’t immune to this). Another thing that might surprise you is the survivability of these backwoods copies (look up Philippine black market guns). Not only is the Philippines sitting right on the Equator, but they have yearly monsoons and constantly get pelted by Typhoons for over half the year.

    • Patriot Gunner

      Yeah I have noticed that as well, they love their AR’s in the Philippines! They’ve been using them for almost as long as we have in one of the most harsh conditions on earth without fail.

      • Uniform223

        They still use the M16A1. Their MSSR is a more accurate version… think bargain Mk12 SPR

  • Tritro29

    We know, you said sh*t like this 2000 times. Please get back trolling Russians in other sites Ukro-warrior.

    • BabyWookie

      Is that what he is? Makes sense. Heh

    • Patriot Gunner

      LMAO Ukro-warrior? Not…Even…Close…

  • Patriot Gunner

    BabyWookie (great name by the way), thanks for the response (no sarc). The reason why I avoid naming brands and models is because extreme flaming ensues. People not only tie their ego to a specific rifle, but also to a specific brand and it wasn’t my point to call out certain makers. I’d definitely agree with you that a lot of the earlier US AK’s were pure garbage, I’ve seen some examples but truth be told that was way before my time and I never shot any of those examples. If the AK is what you like then more power to you. I’ve just had a “less than stellar” experience with a variety of AK’s including Century Arms, Saigas, Molot, WASR, Norinco and even ones from custom outfits like Krebs and Rifle Dynamics. Ones chambered in 54R and 308 I’ve had the worst luck with. Yes a higher quality AK will run better but my point is that the AK, much like the Garand/M14 rifles, have an inherent design flaw and are antiquated designs. I still like and shoot AK’s, I just refuse to believe the hype.

  • Patriot Gunner

    Ohhh you got me! I’m outed son, outed!!!

  • If you want a chuckle, check out when I enter the conversation on page 2…

  • ihatelibs

    It was the Grease used in the M-1 … NOT the Action

  • jcitizen

    You can’t ignore this test, but the fact is, I have to have a rifle that can hit a target at 300 meters consistently – if I have to baby it to take dirt, mud, and freezing cold, then I’m just going to have to do it. I’m very interested in the ARX-100 because of the removable barrel, but for that same reason, I have my doubts it will maintain zero after such a change, and I really don’t know how it compares in accuracy to the AR-15. Would it make a good urban assault weapon – maybe – at least your likely target would be at or below 100 meters. I got rid of all my AKs except the Krinkov, because of their lousy accuracy, and my total loss of confidence in them – consequently, no AKs for me. I’m just keeping the Krink as a fun gun pistol.

  • Bill

    Interesting review however to me and still the best “Battle Rifle is a WW II M1 Garand with a second at the finish line the M14. Both can be purchased today and both have aftermarket “Modernized” Rifle Synthetic Stocks.

    I watched a video of the M14 dragged on a rope behind a jeep with the bolt closed. The gun fired and cycled perfectly despite being dragged through mud, across rocks, etc. and the gun performance was flawless.

    I also saw the same thing with the M1 Garand being submerged in the cold icy mud with it’s bolt open and all the shooter had to do was wipe the mud from the barrel opening and it shot all 8 rounds with no pickups.

    Some say that they would rather have 20-30 round Magazine rather than an 8 round magazine. I say it doesn’t matter wither it’s 20 or 30 as if neither function, you’re dead!

  • John

    You know, I went back to the RT documentary on the AK and the weapons tester actually says that he’s never seen the weapon fail, not once. Then I look at the comments and I’m just amused at how many people eat that stuff up.

    • John

      • jcitizen

        I’ve seen an M16 run over with an M35A3 2 1/2 ton truck and an 8000 lbs water buffalo, and all it did was split the hand guards. So I’m not impressed with these tests. The M16 is king of toughness in my book. The ordnance depot examined this rifle and not one thing was wrong with it. I had already replaced the hand guards.

  • bluesea

    ARs and AKs might be fun to shoot and look at, but, my liking is the Thompson Sub machine gun, the good old Tommygun, I would love to have one of them. They were .45 cal.

  • Dolphy

    AK “Safety works fine, fires first round, zhukov stock broke when attempting mortar gun open, fired second round and bolt stuck again, then fires all 30 rounds. Mag release works fine”

    AR “Safety very stiff, trigger reset sluggish fires all 30 no lock open, sluggish operation, mag release frozen”

    I think that says everything we could need to know. Seems like you may not want a plastic folder if you’re going to be in the cold.

  • Hyok Kim

    According to wiki, ARX piston moves about 2″, a lot longer than other designs.