Czech Republic To Donate vz. 58s To Iraq, Kurdistan, To Fight ISIS

zbrojovka-zb-vz58

 

The Czech Republic has announced that it will donate obsolete vz. 58 rifles, both new and used, to the Iraqi and Kurdish regional government. The vz. 58 is an unusual assault rifle often confused with the famous Kalashnikov pattern of rifles, but very different from that family. Jane’s reports:

The Czech government announced on 25 January that it would donate 3,000 new and 3,600 surplus Ceská zbrojovka Model 58 (Vz. 58) assault rifles to Iraq’s central and Kurdish governments, along with 7.2 million rounds of ammunition.

“The Czech Republic will supply assistance to Iraq and the Kurds in the form of assault rifles and ammunition,” Prime Minister Bohuslav Sobotka said on Twitter.

Czech defence minister Martin Stropnický informed media on 25 January that another 3.8 million rounds of 7.62×39 mm ammunition and three million rounds of 7.62×54 mm ammunition would be donated to Jordan.

While the vz. 58 has been superseded in Czech serviced by the modular 805 Bren and 806 Bren 2 families of weapons, it is still a very capable rifle for modern combat. The Czech weapons that will be donated are all chambered for the Soviet 7.62x39mm intermediate rifle cartridge, and are select-fire with fully automatic capability. The vz. 58 remains popular with both civilian and military users due to its light weight and favorable recoil and handling characteristics relative to the more famous Kalashnikov pattern of assault rifles, although without modification the type does not accept modern optics or accessories. For a local force without the money to buy very many of these luxuries, however, the vz. 58 is still an excellent rifle that is extremely competitive with other weapons of its type. Kurdish and Iraqi government forces are currently embattled fighting Daesh, the Islamic extremist militant organization seeking to establish a worldwide Caliphate based on sharia law. The donated vz. 58s will be used against Daesh forces by the allied governments.



Nathaniel F

Nathaniel is a history enthusiast and firearms hobbyist whose primary interest lies in military small arms technological developments beginning with the smokeless powder era. In addition to contributing to The Firearm Blog, he runs 196,800 Revolutions Per Minute, a blog devoted to modern small arms design and theory. He can be reached via email at nathaniel.f@staff.thefirearmblog.com.


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  • wetcorps

    As long as they stay away from mud pits they’ll be okay 🙂

    • Cal S.

      That holds true for the AK-47, too, bro.

    • ddhartma

      Actually the VZ58 has such an open chamber it will handle mud better than most AK’s and almost all AR’s.

  • CanadianShill

    Hope they put those beauties to good use

  • plingr2

    Maybe they are obsolete, but czech soldiers like it more than Bren.

    • jcl

      What’s the reason for them to prefer vz58 over Bren? Is there any defect or flaw in Bren? Or is this just a case of nostalgic feeling toward vz58 and 7.62×39 like the american M14 vs M16 debate?

      • overlander

        You ask the right question. The Czech soldiers immediately hated on the Bren because it shot a measly 5.56 bullet instead of the big ol’ 7.62×39 they grew to love in the 58. So it’s rooted in a lack of gun knowledge on the part of the soliders themselves. Seems that opinion has now swung the other direction as the Bren and it’s ‘tiny’ bullet has proven itself in combat…

        • plingr2

          My friends say : “Bren is acuratte,but it is heavy and unbalanced”. They do not have problem with ammuniton.

        • Ondřej Turek

          Actually no. I’m Czech and the problem was that the CZ805 was selected before it was fully developed, rushed into the production and then “debugged in the warzone on soldiers”, who were unsurprisingly not amused. Pretty much akin the “M16A0”.

          There were problems with:
          – gas block (805 was jamming with “summer” setting and chipping of material of the receiver with “winter” setting),
          – reliability of the fire control mechanism due to 2-round-burst making problems,

          – the Picatinny rails were so sharp they would cut you without rubber attachements which were not supplied to the soldiers,

          – and what was worst, all the 805 of one batch jammed in the Afghanistan dust, leaving the Czech soldiers facing the Taliban only with the ancient CZ83s.

          Also, the Czech Army has extremely rigorous Military Acceptance Tests and the people who did them were claiming the 805 only passed them by cheating, i.e. making changes to the rifle during the tests without testing against regression.

          Also, the CZ805 mags initially jammed a lot and were hated because “how it’s possible that 5,56 mags are bigger than 7,62×39 ones?” (hint: look at Indian mags.). Soldiers in A-stan found out they need to use G36 mags, which fit into the CZ805 mag well and work well.

          So, all of this generated a lot of hate. The subsequent modernizations of the CZ805, rushed to the front lines, worked better and then well, and in the end, the rifle even got the STANAG mags. But the first army series sucked hard, or so do the soldiers say, and the hate drags on to the later, fixed, series.

      • mosinman

        from what i understand the first generation of Bren 805 was kinda crappy and heavy and the VZ.58 is an excellent design with a proven track record with the Czechs so i’m positive there are nostalgic feelings

      • I can’t speak for the Czechs, but I like the vz. 58 better than the 805. Hopefully the 806 is a major improvement.

      • Machinegunnertim

        The VZ58 is very light and slim for it’s caliber and (lack of) recoil. I’m sure that’s part of the reason why.

      • FarmerB

        $$$$$$$$$ is a big one. Why give away a shiny new and expensive toy when you have warehouses full of old models which cost more to store than they are worth? I’d happily have a couple more of them for more than the Kurds are paying 🙂

    • The Great Satan

      And i like it better than the ar.

  • mosinman

    Dear Czech government, i too am a poor Kurd who wants to fight ISIS, i only ask for 1 VZ.58 and only 2000 rounds of ammo, please consider donating to me

    • 360_AD

      Don’t forget, you’ll need magazines too.

      • mosinman

        glad you reminded me! what good is a select fire VZ.58 without mags?

  • Bungameng

    This is just one of many batches of guns going to Kurds and Iraqis from the Czech Republic. This time there is also a batch of guns (not only ammo) going to the Kingdom of Jordan.

    Apart from vz.58s the Kurds and Iraqis are getting also machine guns as well as thousands of RPG 7s and RPG 75s.

    Meanwhile Czech Republic sold for a few pennies 15 ALCA 159 light combat aircraft that is perfect for close aerial support of ground units to Iraqi army, however this sale is now stopped as Britain, which manufactures ALCA’s radar, is dragging their consent with the sale.

  • mikkel

    wow! free guns for them but they refuse to sell primers to Ukraine so they can manufacture ammo to fight russians in the east. very classy Czechs!

    • Jake

      Good for them. The Ukrainian war is not in the interest of the Ukrainians, just the puppets in Kiev.

  • Major Tom

    “Tags: better than an ak”

    You sure about that?

    • Vitor Roma

      Much lighter and a bit smoother operation. Just the weight difference would make me prefer it.

      • G0rdon_Fr33man

        Lighter while having a milled receiver… Great gun.

      • Kivaari

        Nicely made using a machined receiver.

    • mosinman

      it’s supposedly more accurate too. oh and it has a nifty bolt hold open feature

      • Cal S.

        Bolt hold open is Kapitaliztik pig luxury. Real man don’t care when gun is emptyzk. What you think bayonet for, Kapitaliztik pig?

  • Spencerhut

    One more reason I think the Czech Republic is our long lost little brother.

    • iksnilol

      Nah, they make good cars.

      ):D

    • Ondřej Turek

      Yes we are. Island of liberty and common sense in Europe.
      Unfortunately, the EU is insofar trying to ban and confiscate all our guns (the British have, through David Cameron and Theresa May – may they lose their political posts –, claimed they want their perverted gun bans introduced in the whole EU); and as the only thing from “the west” most people see are the “liberal” (neo-marxist) media and activist politicians, many people react by leaning stupidly to the Russia as their “saviour”, duh.
      But Czech RKBA are doing the best they can and there is still hope.

  • HenryV

    How many will end up back in Europe via the Balkans arms smuggling route? A very stupid idea.

    • Cal S.

      You’re confused. I will help. This is proper question: “How many Daesh will they be used to kill?”

      A very smart idea.

      • HenryV

        I am not confused. I read Security Studies at uni’ specialising in what grown ups term “small and light weapons proliferation”. I am wondering how many will end up in Euorpe and will one day be used to kill Europeans. A very bad idea.

        • The_Champ

          If there actually exists any ally of the west in the middle east(besides Israel) it is the Kurds. These weapons are going to right place, and more should follow.

          Does anyone really believe ISIS could withstand the full might of America’s or NATO’s armies? They were already smashed once when they were part and parcel of Al-Qaeda in Iraq. Now they are resurgent and the west has grown weary of war and won’t commit a large force.

          So as it stands that leaves us the option of arming the least radical of local opposition to ISIS, which is clearly the Kurds, who by the way have shown a much stronger will to fight than the other groups in the region.

          • HenryV

            That is very optimistic view. Not wrong exactly, but not entirely right.

          • The_Champ

            Maybe it is optimistic but what exactly is option three? Let it all burn and when ISIS comes out on top hope their foreign terrorist ventures are confined to Europe and don’t creep across the Atlantic?

            Did the latest batch of Jihadi murderers in Europe have any trouble acquiring full auto assault rifles? Likely not. A few more directed into the hands of the good guys over there isn’t really going to change that.
            And sorry if we are creeping into politics 😊

          • HenryV

            Gun people are political people. 🙂

          • Bill

            “Does anyone really believe ISIS could withstand the full might of America’s or NATO’s armies?”

            Yes they could, just as the Viet Cong did. ISIS runs on a idea that appeals to certain severely misguided people, and they self-replicate. We should know by know that you can’t kill ideas in the MidEast, if anywhere. The Kurds very much have a dog in this fight, and too bad they didn’t get these rifles when Saddam was gassing them- there may never have been a need to go into Iraq, nor engage in “de-Baathification.” The Kurds wont hesitate to do things to take care of business, the type of things we would very much hesitate to do.

            It’s almost embarrassing that it’s the Czechs sending boatloads of guns and not us. We’ve let down the Kurds from Day One. The support we’re giving them now is too little, too late, and largely because we are terrified that an oil tanker filled with ISIS fighters may try to dock at Miami, as unrealistic as that is.

          • Tassiebush

            It’s interesting thinking about the money side of things with ISIS. Insurgencies that can outlast a major power seem to have either the backing of rival powers or access to some form of revenue which usually means drugs but in the case of ISIS seems to be oil and locally raised taxes. It’d be very interesting to see what their financial basis was before they had oil infrastructure and a tax base. It’d also be very interesting and probably very disappointing to see how they have been able to sell their oil.

          • Bill

            That’s the REALLY scary thing about ISIS – they don’t need, or necessarily seem to want, backing from a nation state. Leveraging social media has enabled them to claim attacks like the ones in Paris and San Bernadino that were essentially free – the costs and logistics largely handled by the individuals, you can barely call them cells, that carried them out.

          • Tassiebush

            So true they pretty much only provide info and a brand in many cases. I think in the case of Paris they did train some of them but it’s a low cost terror model. Here in Australia so far it’s always self funded by the perps. Seems to be as simple as a knife and a flag in resources sometimes. The attacks cost ISIS nothing so they don’t even bother to use a command structure and training to ensure they are effective. They seem to be really good at harnessing fu3k ups who have a grudge against society. Huge numbers of their attackers seem to have criminal backgrounds and a general narrative of failure and wrong doing or addiction. isis promises redemption through martyrdom and taps right into their need for grandiose power.
            it’s pretty disheartening too that the attackers have so often recieved welfare support or asylum from the countries they attack. That’s the true isis fighter. An ungrateful brat parasite who hates the society that shows them kindness but gets used as a suicide attacker.
            It’s interesting too that foreign fighters seem to have been very well used by them using armoured truck bombs. It’s the IS version of carpet bombing a strongpoint or frontline.

          • Bill

            Which is why there will be no “bombing them back to the Stone Age” or “turning the MidEast into a sea of glass.” We can’t do that to Paris, Minneapolis, Kenya, Mali, Brussels or San Bernardino. Maybe the Horn of Africa….

          • Tassiebush

            Absolutely. It’s a home front conflict. War is weird these days because there always seems to be someone in your own community who has family or friends in the affected area even if it’s in a completely different part of the world.

          • Kivaari

            Iran is helping out. Every fungible dollar given to the Palestinian movement frees up money that goes to ISIS. The UN is a prime sponsor of terrorism in the middle east.

          • Tassiebush

            Iran has lost a large number of soldiers fighting in Syria against ISIS. They train and fund shiite militia in Iraq who have seized back territory from ISIS. Their sectarian emnity is huge. Any benefits of their support for other groups would be accidental.

          • Kivaari

            Vietnam (PRVN) was supported by the Soviets and Chinese AND Sweden.

          • Tassiebush

            Yeah I was certainly thinking Vietnam war. American war of independance too.
            Didn’t know about Sweden doing that. Knew they’d banned exports to US during war but not that they’d given medical aid to PRVN.

          • Kivaari

            Remember the fact that Saddam gassed the Kurds, but it never could happen, because Bush lied about Iraq having chemical weapons.
            I haven’t figured out how Saddam delivered poison gas while the anti-Bush crowd said no weapons existed. Thousands of Kurds were killed by imaginary poison gas.

        • john huscio

          More likely that they end up back in Europe in the hands of Germans who, in the face of the “refugee” tidalwave, are now scrambling to arm themselves with whatever they can find currently.

          • HenryV

            Well that is best case scenario, but I doubt it.

            I had better be clear. I am not opposed to OUR people having guns…………..

          • Kivaari

            The Kurds are out people. Some Iraqis are out people. Our ally Turkey poses a greater threat to Europe even though they are a member of NATO. We have more in common with the Russians fighting in Syria than the Turks that are supporting the ISIS thugs.

          • HenryV

            The Kurds and Iraqis are their own people. You are being inconsistent saying the former and then going on to say what you are saying about Turkey.

            FWIW I agree with you over Turkey. Find it odd that you seem to find it odd we should have something in common with Russians……….

          • Tassiebush

            I doubt that given that organized crime from the middle East which would do the smuggling would be more likely to have connections with the islamists they’re fearful of.

        • Cal S.

          I’ll take a likely good use over a maybe bad use any day of the week.

        • Kivaari

          The AKs floating around in nations much closer to Europe are a bigger threat. Getting guns out of Iraq just adds extra steps that are not needed. If you can get AKs over a border without a need for passports (the EU) why increase the odds of interdiction by going another 1500 miles and several frontiers into the mix. Typically, the criminals in Europe get guns closer to home.

          • HenryV

            The Balkans were a clearing house for Middle Eastern weapons flowing into Europe before Syria. Current events haven’t done anything to stem the flow. Most of the AKs “on the streets” of Northern Europe come from the Middle East. When the East collapsed government armouries for the most part stayed secure, there wasn’t an Iraq after “liberation” experience here. Say how you guys doing with the Mexican border? Not good? Oh dear.

            PS: I am just as concerned about the safety of Americans as I am about Europeans. We are both in a mess……….

          • FarmerB

            That’s simply BS. You seem to find ‘facts’ in your own Corn Flakes. Albania (to give one simple example) was in complete meltdown in 1997, when armouries were widely looted. Many of those ended up in Kosovo and the KLA. Since then the Albanians have been shipping them by the boatload in France (in particular).

            Most of the initial shipments of AK weapons and ammunition provided by the UK and USA was bought from the Albanians and given to the Iraqis and Afghanistan (and subsequently IS and the Taliban).

            Just follow the news, mate. Jeese, what did they teach you in your special “Small Arms proliferation” school??

    • Trey

      The number of Ak’s and SKS free in the grey market ll make 3000 more pretty meaningless

      • HenryV

        Remember you said that next time Fast and Furious gets mentioned.

        • DZ

          Illegality arming narcos with US civilian weapons with the intent of creating a narrative to push more gun control is a very different animal than a state expressing its interest to arm a beleaguered government fighting what equates to 21st century nazis in the public’s view.

          • HenryV

            If you say so.

        • Trey

          Sure when the Czech’s Break the law to provide the weapons illicitly to the Kurds I will think of fast and furious .

          • HenryV

            Weak. When a Vz is used in a bank robbery here I will flag you up.

        • Kivaari

          Except F&F was intended to produce anti-gun sentiment in the USA so Obama could get more gun laws passed. That is why Holder wants to keep his “private” emails secret. It was an easy way to cause anti-gun sentiment, while the guns were paid for with cartel drug money.

          • HenryV

            The objective of F&F isn’t germane to the discussion, it it the process.

    • USMC03Vet

      Worth it.

      • HenryV

        Guns being smuggled into Europe for crime and terror is worth it? Really………….

        • Sounds like someone wants to see stronger ITAR and UN arms control treaties….

          • HenryV

            No. I see it as supplying the enemy. How would you feel if they donated them to the Mexican government?

          • A_fed_up_fed

            As American gov sold to mexican criminals?

          • Kivaari

            F&F allowed cartel money to be used to unlawfully buy guns smuggled in to Mexico. The ATF asked the FBI to allow the unqualified buyers to go through the NICS check. Even though the ATF field agents in Mexico City spotted an up tic in US guns showing up in Mexico. Those ATF agents were told to stand down and ignore the criminality of their bosses in the White House and DOJ. Holder and Obama should be rotting in a Mexican prison cell for increasing the murder rate in Mexico. Don’t bring up when Bush did a similar operation. That one involved local and Mexican authorities to be in on it. It was cancelled when they found that tracking the guns, even with built in transmitters could not keep up with the whereabouts of them.
            America does sell guns to Mexican criminals, the ones elected to high office.

          • Kivaari

            Think about what you just said. Why would we care if they gave guns to the Mexicans? We sent guns via Eric Holder’s Fast and Furious. We also sell tons of weapons to the Mexican government. Mexico can’t even track their own soldiers. Many desert and take their guns with them when they hire on to the cartel’s payroll. It’s silly to think that a donation of arms to our allies should be stopped because some may get stolen and used unlawfully. Read today’s story about the guns missing from DHS, Where did those guns end up? ATF lost a bunch of MP5s a few years back. Who complained except for gun owners that can’t even buy them lawfully.

          • HenryV

            The black market is already awash with weapons. You argument is that a few more won’t make a difference, my argument, such as it is, is that why add to the problem? You Americans are bit to quick to label any bunch sending rounds down range in the right direction allies.

          • FarmerB

            Yeah, well, I spent much of the 90’s watching the alternative answer – where the bleeding hearts (Clintons, EU) implemented arms embargoes so that the innocents can be quietly slaughtered rather than give them a fighting chance. Much easier to sleep comfortably with moral superiority than implement effective, but messy solutions. The Kurds deserve our support.

            And it’s simply nonsensical to think that the Kurds (who have effective institutions) would allow these weapons to leak all the way to Western Europe, when half the beds in the Balkans have an AK under it from years of instability, and Albania was the largest arms dump in the world, and has illicit channels (drugs, people, arms) to Western Europe all over the place.

          • HenryV

            ” it’s simply nonsensical to think that the Kurds (who have effective institutions) would allow these weapons to leak all the way to Western Europe”

            Bless your naivety would be astounding if I hadn’t it before. Sort out Mexico, sort of the gang problem in the Democratic mega-cities, and then get back to me.

          • FarmerB

            Why? I’m on the other side of the world, yet I’ve been to Kurdish areas and done projects with them. It’s patently clear to any rational person that great parts of “Kurdistan” have properly functioning institutions and rule of law. For many parts of Mexico, not so much. What your stupid statements on this part of the world have to do with Democrat run North American cities has us readers beaten.

          • HenryV

            That’s rather like saying, “I have worked with some Americans therefore all of America must be good………” What I am seeing in these comments is a rather simplistic view of the world.

          • FarmerB

            Sorry, but you don’t hold a logical stream that’s consistent for more than 2 comments, so please excuse me not bothering. But I’ll give you a hint: individuals != institutions.

          • HenryV

            As opposed to the collective idiocy displayed here displayed by the Americans who just think “gun is good”. It will be this simplistic arrogance that will lead to you losing your gun rights and you just don’t get it.

          • FarmerB

            I’ve already been there – don’t tell me what I don’t get, you know nothing about me.

          • HenryV

            I know enough.

          • Mark

            HenryV, I notice you didn’t say “sort out Colombia”. Why? Because the US was deeply involved in doing that. If they hadn’t it wouldn’t have happened.

            In fact shutting off the Caribbean water routes and the other Latin American routes by the US is what has made Mexico into the main drug transit point. Some would call it whack-a-mole but I’m not buying your smug cynicism. Americans don’t think “gun is good”. That is a cheap and stupid shot. They think that hitting bad guys is good. It is.

            Mexico is undergoing what the US did in the 30’s after prohibition, and what I’m afraid is about to get worse now with terrorism on our own soil. Transportation and communication makes these efforts international now, and allies matter. Allies doesn’t mean besties always. Now after all that has transpired in Colombia over decades and the Conservative-Liberal cat-fights for all those years, people suddenly have their panties in a twist over civil-military work with Mexico is “foreign aid”? It’s stupid.

            Mexico, which has the 12th largest economy in the world, and has been our 3rd or 4th largest trading partner becomes the current drug trafficking transit point because of the success in shutting off the other routes. The tragedy is that Americans on both the right and left are so knee-jerkedly opposed to anything that smacks of either “foreign aid” (or immigration issues) or “cultural imperialism” few are not adamantly opposed to military-security cooperation that both our countries need. What Conservatives staunchly supported in Colombia & Peru in past decades they lampoon as unthinkable a stones throw from El Paso and San Diego. Conservatives (I’m one) oppose aggrandizing federal armed bureaucracies, while irrationally shouting for any and every increase in the largest and most corrupt of all federal enforcement agencies in the border patrol. It makes no sense.

            So HenryV, spare us the crap about sorting things out and getting back to you. You’ve got as many issues to sort out as anyone. Reading over your comments, your puritanism isn’t that clever of a pose.

        • Kivaari

          So how would you support our allies in the region? Should we not allow sovereign nations like the Czech Republic from trying to help?
          The Czech’s have always been pro-western, despite being under Soviet domination post WW2 to 1990. In the WW1 era we had a Czech Legion on our side. Same in WW2 against the Nazis. The former forced client state in the Warsaw Pact, were begging to get help while held hostage by the Russian. Look at those nations that are now NATO members. Those same nations that sent troops to both Gulf War conflicts and Afghanistan. If you want to stop gun smuggling in Europe you need to go after Belgium, since it has been the center for conflict weapons for just about ever. Like the Paris attackers. They were Belgians and Belgian supplied. Look at the former Yugoslavia, where most of the crime guns in Europe come from.

          • HenryV

            You embed SF to facilitate fire support, recce’ and intel, etc. The barest minimum of training. And then let them get on with it. Remember it was our poor handling of Iraq that lead to this situation

          • iksnilol

            Oh no, don’t pin this one on us. Keep the Belgium angle though.

          • Kivaari

            Not that the Czechs are directly involved. I don’t know if they are. But, Czech guns have been popular among terrorists. The Scorpion 7.65mm was a favorite. One of the newer SMGs was used in one of the more recent attacks.

          • iksnilol

            Of course, Scorpions are fantastic.

            They shouldn’t call it the Škorpion, they should call it the “F****’n A” because that’s what it is .

            I think they are popular because there were many made. Pretty much one of the first “real” PDWs.

          • FarmerB

            Anything that bad mouths Belgium is fine by me (sorry Belgians, nothing personal, but I would dissolve that country, and keep FN for myself).

          • iksnilol

            A fellow nationalist, nice to see more of us :3

        • USMC03Vet

          You’re implying the rapeugees and other rampaging Islamists currently invading Europe wouldn’t have firearms if this doesn’t happen when in reality supply some arms to the Kurds will stop far more of those scum even stepping foot inside Europe to begin with.

          AKA WORTH IT.

    • Tassiebush

      The Kurds don’t have form for running and the Iraqi government forces seem to actually be advancing rather than fleeing these days (which is nice) so I am hopeful these stay with the right people.

    • Kivaari

      We, the USA has supplied tens of thousands of M16A2 rifles, rocket launchers, machineguns, trucks (all those Hummers) to Iraq and Afghanistan. Watch the news reports our of both regions and you will see some very nice American weaponry. If you are worried about the Vz 58s and the like you should be worried about all those M16s.
      Supplying the Kurds, which we still listed as a terror operation, but our best ally in the region is not a bad idea. We were paying the Iraqis for two 50,000 man units which never existed, but they got the weapons and the money anyway.
      The AK will remain the terrorist gun for most. Simply because there are so many of them in Central and Eastern Europe and all those Muslim nations formerly within the Soviet Union.
      Killing ISIS members is always a good idea. There is risk in many things, but we better do something to help slow the Islamists.

    • n0truscotsman

      Its impossible to say, although it probably will happen. That is a risk that occurs anytime there is a war that occurs in a region. On the account that the Kurds are the only viable force putting up resistance against ISIS on any meaningful scale, I’m sure the risks were considered very heavily.

      • HenryV

        I remember much the same was said about the Mujahideen in Afghanistan in the 80s…….

        • n0truscotsman

          the two are not even remotely close comparisons. With the muj, and, axiomatically, the taliban and other afghan factions, tribe and their sect of islam is prioritized over regionalist/nationalist matters. With the kurds, the opposite is true, leading to far different societies.

          The question worth asking is; is arming the kurds, who are resisting a regional problem, ISIS, worth the risk of criminals and terrorists ending up with those arms and killing people? which is statistically miniscule?

          To me it is. Probably because I have a bias in favor of the kurdish idea of self-determination over Turkey as a “NATO ally”.

  • Cal S.

    Whoo! Instead of donating them to ambiguously legitimate Syrian rebels like the US does, the Czechs are actually doing it right!

    They know very well how to remove Kebab.

  • smartacus

    There is no such thing as ISIS anymoe.
    Fakebook cracked down on private gun salez which put ISIS out of business

    • Asdf

      What?

      • smartacus

        Avtomat Kalashnikov-47 magazines won’t work for the vz. 58,
        but the 7.62×39 ammunition will

        • Jon

          I’m sure ISIS members are not using AK-47 rifles. Very few of them were ever produced.

          • BambiB

            W
            H
            A
            T
            !?
            The AK-47 is one of the most widely manufactured guns in the world!

          • Jon

            No, very few AK-47 were produced. We the occidentals name those Soviet rifles in a wrong way, the real denomination of that we call it as AK-47 is simply AK.
            The most widely manufactured were AK, AKM and AK-74 family rifles.

  • Trey

    I am surprised that the us govt has not tried to get the M1 carbines in Korea to the Mideast just so they could never be sold to collectors here in the USA.
    (I hope I did not just give them an idea)

  • john huscio

    How bout they “donate” some of those (semi auto’d of course) to the American market?

    • Jon

      Why donate them to anyone who will use them only to his economical benefit?

  • Ben

    Tale of two nations Slovakia still uses the VZ-58 and the design works. Id take one over a CZ 805 any time.

    • Bungameng

      Actually Slovakia has already got several thousand of CZ 805. Czech army kindly allowed the factory to redirect its own order in favor of Slovaks who were in sudden need for 5.56 guns when Russia invaded Ukraine.

      The most battle ready Slovak units should already be all on the new guns.

  • JumpIf NotZero

    seeking to establish a worldwide Caliphate based on sharia law.

    “Caliphate” shouldn’t be capitalized. It’s just a movement or organization led by a caliph. And it’s not based on Shiria law (which should be capitalized!) at all. In this case it’s based on the teaching of Qutb. The confusion is that students of Qutb will follow Shiria law.

    1/2 typos, 1/2 history…. Unless you’re sure of what you’re writing and on the the complexities of it, I probably would have just left that entire sentence out, fwiw.

    • davidio flavio

      Who the f++k cares grammar Nazi?

      • JumpIf NotZero

        Yea… I mean perhaps it’s just an isolated incident of no proof reading and you should beleive everything else the author writes – even given the example above they’re willing to plop down blatantly wrong misinformation that runs against the site’s theme of no-politics – just because they’re trying to fill a word count maybe?

        Lack of professionalism, basic proof reading, Glenn-Man Amnesia effect… Or grammar-nazi because you don’t understand the difference?

        😀 Whichever!

      • Miguel Raton

        I CARE! NO SOUP FOR YOU!

  • micmac80

    They are not the only ones,our military is sending a load of Jugo AKs and M76 DMRs

    • iksnilol

      Probably to blame us Jugoslavians when crap hits the fan.

      *smh

  • A_fed_up_fed

    Just as similarly, Californians cannot lawfully carry weapons. Many can own weapons and keep them at home, or locked away, but cannot carry them.

    • Kivaari

      It is why California is held in low regard by people living in free states.

  • Andrew Dubya

    In other news, ISIS is now armed with more Vz.58s.

  • Kivaari

    That is why you see so many M16A2 rifles on both sides. US Aid, never fired and only dropped once before ISIS got them.

  • Tassiebush

    I know about that but they’re on the offensive now and have also worked out that surrender results in being murdered. They seem more effective than they did a year or so back.

    • HenryV

      You could equally argue ISIS are not as effective at the moment.

      • Tassiebush

        I think it’s a mix of both. I must admit I completely share your dismay about how much gear was dropped by Iraqi forces as they fled. The difference this time is they are reclaiming territory and infrastructure and we don’t want that to stop due to logistical failing.

        • HenryV

          We shall see.

          • Tassiebush

            Hehe I’m trying to have confidence in that…

          • HenryV

            To be honest we should be preparing to fight here at home………

          • iksnilol

            Eh, you’re kinda stupid if you aren’t prepared at all times.

          • HenryV

            It was a more general “we”………

          • iksnilol

            I guess, though survival is an individual responsibility.

            We in the Balkans learned the hard way. But we learned, few houses that don’t have backup plans and firearms.

          • HenryV

            We Brits haven’t been invaded for so long we feel a bit too safe………….

          • mosinman

            that’s the general attitude that i’ve observed here in the U.S

          • iksnilol

            Yeah, hate to say it but people who’ve never experienced war are stupid like that.

            I won’t call war a good thing but it does teach people important stuff.

          • HenryV

            Um. Actually I think the last time you were invaded it was us doing the invading……. 🙂

          • mosinman

            that was quite a while by American standards

          • HenryV

            Our history is your history. Don’t come that “America has no history” line with me mister. Your Constitution is one of the greatest pieces of politic writing ever produced by the British………. 🙂 🙂

          • mosinman

            i guess produced by the British indirectly

          • Tassiebush

            The authors were born as British subjects. They were British rebels. The values they held were British republican ideas. 😉

          • mosinman

            if you’re rebelling against the British i’m guessing they didn’t see themselves as British.

          • Tassiebush

            Well they certainly took a whole lot of enlightenment principals and founded a new nation and identity based on those. Certainly stopped being British.

          • HenryV

            No I think you will find your Founding Fathers were British.

          • mosinman

            till they rebelled 😉

          • HenryV

            Yes. My point was your culture didn’t just sprout up on July 4th from nowhere. I will go further to say that probably they were more British in outlook than those at the centre of the Empire. You tend to find that on frontiers oddly. There are those who want a clean slate, and those who want to preserve what they have.

          • mosinman

            oddly enough there seems to be that the colonists had their own sense of identity , in the sense that they were British subjects but had their own cultural quirks, so American culture didn’t spring out of nowhere but it wasn’t a carbon copy of British culture either

          • HenryV

            You are talking about the 18th century here. Much could be said of the UK at the time.
            It may not have been a carbon copy wasn’t that much different. I would hazard guess to say less than the difference than that between somebody who lives in small town Vermont and somebody who lives in the Bay area.

          • Mark

            Let’s try to clarify what might be meant by “identity”. Against the common view that the CW birthed the nation, I’ll quote Donald Ratcliffe’s essay “The State of the Union” in the book “Themes of the American Civil War”.

            “This view is, however, fundamentally misleading. Powerful nationalizing forces in the late eighteenth century created the United States as a coherent–if highly variegated and decentralized–republic that was bound together by a widely shared sense of political identity. In this respect America was typical of the many European and European-settled nations that developed an exclusive self-awareness between 1765 and 1815 in response to either increasingly restrictive colonial rule or foreign conquest. Second, the system of federal government adopted in the United States in 1787-88 incorporated a central government with more real power than historians of the mid-nineteenth century often concede. Those powers were deliberately used in the decades following 1789, enabling the federal government to make a decisive contribution to the survival, development, and further integration of the United States. Thus a proper appreciation of the true strength of the antebellum Union, and the forces underlying it, requires careful consideration of the period before the Missouri crisis.

            “… colonial historians are detected a slowly growing sense of common American identity in the decades before 1740, though only afterwards did the various colonies begin to share common experiences. …”

            “… Yet these developments did not mean that the colonies were growing away from the Britain; on the contrary, if anything, they shared in the growing sense of Britishness that Linda Colley has discerned in Britain in the eighteenth century, and they took pride in their place in the triumphant British Empire. Then menace of Indians and the presence of African slaves encouraged even non-British settlers to identify with their English-speaking neighbors, and racial and cultural affinity provided a common bond for all white Protestant colonists.”

          • HenryV

            Exactly. I am mean takes the Raj. Whites were even British to extreme or they went native. I think it is how we, that includes you to, built the Empire.

            I do remember one story I read about the Revolutionary period. A village was being searched by the Red Coats. And then came to one house where the householder refused them entry saying, “An Englishman’s home is his castle……”

            I think many Americans seem to grew up with the idea that the Colonialists all spoke with modern New England accents and all the British spoke better than HM Queen. Or worse the think Mel Gibson was right.

            Also we shouldn’t forget either that at first it was only small proportion of the Colonialists who were anti-British and even towards the end it was wholeheartedly supported. We shouldn’t forget they wanted to make George Washington. Nor forget that one of the first things the new republic did was to go after its own people over tax in the Whiskey Rebellion………

          • Mark

            Well I think the quote supports yours and mosinman position as I understood it. But I think what was bothering him is what is bothering me. It seems you’re wanting to overstate commonality or deflate differences, or at least certain types of it.

            Because I don’t know how much stock we can put in claims about the number of Loyalists or at least those with a weak interest in independence. The real story was the weak interest in maintaining their status with Britain. If that weren’t true we’d be more like the other former British colonies than we are. British generals went South in hopes that the southerners would rise up and support them. It never happened.

            Another myth of the Revolution is that it was less bitter than it really was. Though it is true that the British generals had a generally paternalistic attitude and considered us misguided cousins, Romantic ideas of revolutionary fighting and effects in comparison to the CW are largely myth. It was a devastating and bitter civil war of Americans with each other by any reasonable standard, that lasted a very long time. Reprisals were brutal, and woe to those who associated with the British when they decided it more advantageous to encamp elsewhere in the South. Sound familiar? Engage with the foreigners at your peril, the same as it ever was. I’m not sure how to square that with your belief that independence wasn’t “widely supported”.

          • iksnilol

            Protip that I got from a neighbour in Bosnia:

            “Don’t get shot, it sucks.”

            That and people can be very hard to kill. I know like 3 persons that were quite literally killed (execution, shot with 50 BMG and one guy who got lit up by a regular M53) but came back.

          • HenryV

            The human body is amazing. Like you say you can be shot several times and live to tell the tale. But trip over the cat, bump your head, and be dead there and then,

          • iksnilol

            Oh yes.

            Also when I mentioned those real life zombies, I wasn’t kidding, they were declared dead.

          • HenryV

            Wow.

          • iksnilol

            Scared the bejeesus out of nurses.

            😛

          • HenryV

            Again wow.

          • iksnilol

            Weird stuff happens when the world turns apocalyptic.

  • Eurocitizen

    These guns will be seen sooner or later in the hands of ISIS and in use in European major cities.

    Fact of the matter is that if western world wants to put ISIS permanently out of business we need to send our own people to put them down for good. Giving handouts to locals is not going to cut it.

    • FarmerB

      And why would you go to the trouble of dragging non-AK weapons an extra 1500 km, when Kosovo and Albania are swimming in the real deal? It’s a completely fallacious argument.

  • manny

    Do they mean Jordan or the Syrian rebels?

  • The Great Satan

    Dear Czechs plz donate those to needy americans instead.we need them more 🙁

  • SteveK

    Great rifle! I especially like the light weight. The only drawback is that AK-47 mags won’t work.

  • Sam Green

    They might as well just mail these rifles to ISIS directly. As when Iraqi soldiers encounter the enemy, they drop their weapon, discard their uniform and run away from the hostility as fast as they can.

    How do you think ISIS got their convoys of Armored Humvees and other American assets given to the Iraqi military.

    • Herman Johnson

      Yep – I agree as far as the Iraqis. The majority of the Iraqi Army are the new “surrender monkeys” of the world.

      The Kurds? Different story. They WILL stand and fight.

  • Doom

    WHERE IS MINE?

  • anonymouse

    It’s a nice rifle the Vz. 58, however I wouldn’t want to use one in serious combat – the wood/resin that their foregrip is made out of gets unbelievably hot. Used an old one in Slovakia back in the day, and around halfway into the second mag (semi-auto) it was getting pretty unusable without hefty gloves.