Winter Warfare Training In Norway

Norway 1

As temperatures plunge below 30 degrees celsius, men and women from 11 different nations converge in Norway to learn how to fight in freezing conditions. Norway’s winter warriors show them how it’s done.

 

Here is a little video clip of some of the practice they did in Norway. “They are the subject matter experts of winter warfare.”


Nicholas C

Co-Founder of KRISSTALK forums, an owner’s support group and all things KRISS Vector related. Nick found his passion through competitive shooting while living in NY. He participates in USPSA and 3Gun. He loves all things that shoots and flashlights. Really really bright flashlights.

Any questions please email him at nicholas.c@staff.thefirearmblog.com


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  • Steve Martinovich

    Friend of mine did that winter warfare training in Norway. He said it was fun… by fun he sarcastically meant stupid cold.

  • Zarkus

    Looks like the Norwegian Army adopted the Barrett MRAD.

  • David

    Nice to see the MRAD getting some love.

    • Davidat

      I hate to read stu..d criticisms in this excelent page…. Norwegians live in a cold country, and surely they have valuable skills and experience in that extreme climate. What about HK416 in that Winter training?
      Thank you Martin

  • aguywhoknows

    I think you mean “below -30°C”.

    • wclardy

      Yeah, who even cares about winter training when it’s 85° Farenheit outside?

  • William Johnson

    I did mine as part of an exchange program in 87. Sleeping in snow caves, skijoring across the glacier and a biathlon at the end. Great training, but not something I care to do on a regular basis. The Norwegians have winter warfare down to a science at this point.

    • Kristoff

      What was it like sleeping in snow caves? I’m genuinely asking. Did you get to do any shooting?

  • TheNotoriousIUD

    Im a giant weiner, id be out there for 10 minutes then fake a broken leg and go back to the lodge and sip on hot cocoa in front of the fire.

    • Kristoff

      I wonder what Norwegian snow bunnies look like. We should research this.

      • TheNotoriousIUD

        To the internet!

    • Hyok Kim

      Have you tried #2 out in the open, when it’s cold enough for you to see the piss freeze before it hits the ground?

  • Martin Grønsdal

    I remember when we met some infantry from the USMC at our winter excersise. We thought the MC guys would struggle in the winter, but be decent soldiers in general. Let me put it this way: I would like American planes, but you can keep your grunts 🙂

    • TheNotoriousIUD

      I wonder how Norwegians would do at land warfare training at Ft Hood in July?

      • G0rdon_Fr33man

        What I DO know, is that Norwegians complain about the weather no matter the conditions. Too wet, too dry, too cold, too hot, too bright, too cloudy…

        • Martin Grønsdal

          Norway is always too cold and wet. Nether too hot, unfortunately.

          • Hyok Kim

            Should come to Korea. It gets cold, windy, alternatively dry and wet, both snow and rain, alternatively and sometimes both at the same time in winter, hot, humid, sometimes with torrential rain, mud bath in summer.

          • wclardy

            Been there, done that, gave up waiting for the t-shirt.
            For my first live-fire in Korea, I got to drive a Gamma Goat with no windshield (and no cab canvas) from Camp Hovey up to Nightmare Range in January.

          • iksnilol

            Can be during summers in the south.

          • Hyok Kim

            Humid or dry, torrential rain or not much rain. Oregon can be very hot in Summer, but still dry, with little rain. Nothing like Korea in summer. Much prefer Oregon hot over Korean hot

      • Martin Grønsdal

        They would fare as well as they do in Afghanistan, don’t you think? Also, we weren’t surprised by the USMC’s ability in winter warfare. It was the individual ability of the soldiers that got us.

        • TheNotoriousIUD

          How so?

          • Martin Grønsdal

            They simply didn’t display the soldierhood we expected from a professional force. We were conscripts during our first 5 months of training, and we out shot/out manoeuvred the USMC… I remember we tore them apart on the firing range. That was during a day long exercise within the three week winter training, where we had to advance in the terrain and establish a FOP, then finish that training off with live ammo attack on electronic targets. I remember we scored higher points on absolutely every part, to the point where the US officers were obviously not happy with what they saw …

          • TheNotoriousIUD

            Interesting, maybe it was a bunch of country boys who didnt like the snow. Who knows.

          • Nicks87

            You mean city boys? Us country folks do pretty well in the cold.

          • TheNotoriousIUD

            I meant southerners.

          • wclardy

            “Do pretty well” is not the same as “like”. I’m a native Virginian and did pretty well through several winters in Korea and Germany, but I still don’t like being stuck out in the snow. I consider snow to be something that is best experienced as a decoration on the far side of a window pane.

          • Kristoff

            I bet I could hand the ass to the entire Norwegian military in Winter Warfare training. On Maui. And by warfare training I mean securing the perimeter of the beach, defeating endless reinforcements of waves, locating and eliminating decently priced Mai Thais, and winning the hearts and minds of the local waitresses and tourist girls. I’m proud to be representing America and showing our Norwegian allies how it’s done.

          • Nicks87

            Where you in the Air Force? Because that sounds really familiar.

          • Matt L.

            About when did this all happen, if I can ask?

          • Martin Grønsdal

            Cold Winter or Joint Winter 2001

          • USMC03Vet

            They are dog and pony shows. You are assuming way too much based on them. I’ve been in numerous ones and not only did we never considering them a competition, but we usually do all sorts of nonsense we’d never do to abide by host nation’s standards and have been told specifically during them to not embarrass our hosts.

            I think the USMC’s operation history and achievements speaks for itself, and might conflict significantly with a conscript of Norway opinion based upon a dog and pony show.

          • Martin Grønsdal

            Well, I disagree. Aiming and pulling the trigger isn’t a show. Communicating and planning isn’t a show. You have to remember that we had to speak English, which I guess is harder for us than a us soldier…

            Also, if you look at the demographics in the us armed forces, you will find white Americans underrepresented. Why? Is it because blacks or Hispanics are more patriotic? Or is it because more whites are privileged, not flipping burgers, and not having incentives to join?

            That does something to how the army will operate and train. The average human resources are different. You ‘draft’ from a different pool.

            Look at how Norway, Denmark – or even Canada fares in Afghanistan. They have totally different relations with the locals. Why?

            I think it is for exactly the same reason as why my conscripted unit outperformed the USMC infantry: we had my future lawyer, doctor, police officer, plumber and sparky in the unit. I doubt the pool that enlisted service personel in the USMC drafts from, produces many brain surgeons.

          • mosinman

            so in your opinion a college degree makes someone a better soldier? or are you trying to say black and hispanic soldiers aren’t as capable? because these are the conclusions i’m drawing from your post

          • Martin Grønsdal

            Neither conclusion is correct.

            One doesn’t have to have a college degree to be successful. There is a difference, however, in not having a degree and flipping burgers, and not having a degree and being an entrepreneur, etc. The son of a renowned electrician won’t join the army out of necessity. He will have other reasons. And he may be just as good as organising his life, and his army gear, as anyone else.

            Any person, black or white, that joins because there isn’t much else to do in life is neither going to be a good soldier, or much else. I am talking in general now. Sure there are exemptions to that rule. However, would you trust establishing complicated communication systems, and procedures to someone that showed up because it was either mc donalds, prison or army for him?

          • mosinman

            if he was put into that job i would assume he is at least somewhat competent at his job. you do know that there are tests the US military uses to gauge the competence of the soldiers before they are assigned a role and then are trained for their job right?

          • Martin Grønsdal

            Sure. Like in any army?

          • mosinman

            yeah i would imagine so. so again how would a guy who was “flipping burgers” before he joined the military , was tested and found to be competent enough to operate “complicated communications systems” and then was trained to do so be somehow inferior to a conscript that was tested, found to be competent enough to operate the communications system and then trained to do so? i assume you’re going to reply: “because the conscript is drawn from a “better” pool. which wouldn’t really mean anything in this case since intelligence isn’t tied to a social class or education.

          • Martin Grønsdal

            sure, you do have a point. My answer is that the average israeli draftee, that also serves in a unit with a lot of experience, will learn and adapt to more enviroments – and more tasks than what you can certify the flipping burger guy for.

            Here is an example; in a certain Afghan enviroment an officer needs a unit that is capable of fighting, but also quickly to change into peacekeeping mode. Who do you choose? the guy that knows how to press one button (and is certified for it), or the guy that will himself decide which button is best to press, and when, and will smile to the locals and not act nervous?

          • mosinman

            i’ll ask you something, what makes the prior burger flipper incapable to smile and not be nervous with the locals?

          • Martin Grønsdal

            God, nothing… I use the flipping burgers as a metaphore. What do you want me to write; disadvantaged lower class with no education, but several former convictions?

          • mosinman

            “disadvantaged lower class with a high school education, but several former convictions” would be more accurate , as you are required a basic education to enlist. i understand why you were using the term “burger flipper” i was just merely asking what would prevent such an individual from preforming these tasks

          • Kristoff

            Guys, he’s not exactly wrong. Americans have this idea that the average US military grunt is a God loving, rocket scientist, Saint warrior that is beloved by all. That was true for WWII, Korea, and ‘Nam, but not anymore. The modern grunt I deal with and the one a family member has a restraining order on is little more than a wife beating, welfare queen. They’re high school drop outs that really do flip burgers at best and are capable of little else. They aren’t saints, what with their multiple criminal convictions and all. I’m talking about grunts, not special forces soldiers, or SEALS for example. Those guys I have nothing but respect for.

          • wclardy

            Kristoff, that heroically glorified stereotype has *never* been true of U.S. soldiers and Marines. During the post-Vietnam period, we were only half-joking when we’d say that we were the guys we wouldn’t want our sisters to marry.
            Today’s enlistees are, on average, more intelligent and more physically fit, but the personalities are no more or less depraved than they have ever been. And I would argue that the “more fit” part is more the result of a current obsession (especially among the infantry) with body-building than anything else.

          • Hyok Kim

            “Guys, he’s not exactly wrong. Americans have this idea that the average US military grunt is a God loving, rocket scientist, Saint warrior that is beloved by all. That was true for WWII, Korea, and ‘Nam, but not anymore.”

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_liberation_of_France

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragging

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Gun_Ri_Massacre

            “I’m talking about grunts, not special forces soldiers, or SEALS for example. Those guys I have nothing but respect for.”

            http://www.crimemagazine.com/war-hero-who-became-child-rapist

            ” Platt enlisted in 1972 as an infantryman and served with the U.S. Army Rangers during the Vietnam War, where he was noted for “High Combat Proficiency”. Platt was honorably discharged in 1979.”

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout

            http://www.cbsnews.com/news/4-wives-slain-in-6-weeks-at-fort-bragg/

          • Dovregubben

            Please google this: 1 in 4 Americans Don’t Know Earth Orbits the Sun. Yes, Really.

          • Martin Grønsdal

            I am sure a lot of folks in all nations would fall for trick-questions

          • Richard Kroll

            How many Americans know where Afghanistan is and can name more than 1 of its neighbors that border them.

          • Dovregubben

            Many more today, than before 2001.

          • Richard Kroll

            I’ll get jumped for saying this but, “You mean now there are TWO people.”

          • Hyok Kim

            They started lowering the standard when the war got extended.

          • Hyok Kim

            “if he was put into that job i would assume he is at least somewhat competent at his job. you do know that there are tests the US military uses to gauge the competence of the soldiers before they are assigned a role and then are trained for their job right?”

            ……….and that’s why Pearl harbor, and Clark base happened? All volunteer military failing miserably.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse

          • George Griffin

            You realize that the entire US military is volunteer,right. No one is forced to join, no one is given an ultimatum to join or else and unless we are in active war, there is no drafting, which all males are required to sign up for. I am a naval veteran and the marines I served with may not have been the clean cut soldier that you seem to compare your military to they were loud, rude and arrogant to a fault but they were also some of the most dedicated, tough, brave men I could have ever hoped to serve with they are trained for one reason and one reason only, to win wars and they do that quite well.,

          • Martin Grønsdal

            How does that relate to what I wrote?

          • George Griffin

            “… someone that showed up because it was either mc donalds, prison or army for him?”
            “….enlisted service personel in the USMC drafts from”
            “… we had my future lawyer, doctor, police officer, plumber and sparky in the unit.”
            All relative to my comments.

          • Hyok Kim

            U.S. in WW2 resorted to conscripts, ‘losers’ in the civilian life, and alternatives from prison bound in WW2.

          • Hyok Kim

            “You realize that the entire US military is volunteer,right. No one is forced to join, no one is given an ultimatum to join or else and unless we are in active war, there is no drafting, which all males are required to sign up for.”

            Napoleon defeated all volunteer professional troops of his opponents with conscripts.

            Both Axis and the Allies resorted to conscripts when the war got ‘real’

          • wclardy

            Actually, Mr.Grønsdal, as a young sergeant I was mentored by several NCOs who joined for exactly that reason — and some of those NCOs were the ones in charge of complicated communications systems and nuclear/biological/chemical defenses.

            I learned to never sell a man short based on his original motivations — motives can change with circumstances, and is independent of ability.

          • Martin Grønsdal

            sure, and in individual cases I am sure any person could become a great soldier.

            I tried to make a point out of the economic conscription that obviously is a large motivator in the US armed forces. Unfortunately, some people here understood that as an attack on America, or god knows what else.

            I have one question, to sum this up: do you think that the average volunteer for the us armed forces is as intelligent as the us population average?

          • wclardy

            To answer your question, Mr.Grønsdal, I would say that the average intelligence of volunteers for the U.S. Army is slightly above average that of the U.S. population as a whole, but that is primarily because enlistment of the lowest 2 quintiles is effectively prohibited.

          • Hyok Kim

            That may be true in individual cases, but in overall in general, original motivation rules.

            It’s hard for someone of Tillman’s motive to become ‘bad’, whereas it’s a lot harder to make Charles Ng become ‘good’.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Steinbrunner

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Tillman#Military_career_and_death

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Ng#U.S._Marine_Corps

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Bales

          • wclardy

            Mr.Grønsdal, you should go look at the actual demographic numbers before spreading that bit of misinformation any further.
            There *are* a disproportionate number of blacks and latinos serving in the U.S. Army, but they are actually most concentrated in the support skills — the classic combat arms are heavily skewed the other way, with a disproportionate representation of whites. The sociological consensus is that the economically disadvantaged minorities are more likely to enlist as a job or to obtain skills they can use to get a civilian job later, while the white recruits enlist are more likely to enlist out of a desire for adventure (or a sense of obligation). If you don’t believe this, I suggest you invest a little time searching for the actual numbers you would need to disprove it — I think you will be surprised.

          • Martin Grønsdal

            Thank you for your reply; your argument is very true.

            However, there is a difference between Rangers and SF, and regular infantry.

            I still think the average Israeli will adapt better to problems arising during his service, than an average US recruit. And my argument is not difference in intelligence in the societies as whole, but different pools to draft from.

          • wclardy

            I was not talking about elite forces, Mr.Grønsdal. I was talking about classic combat arms in general — infantry, armor, artillery, and (to a lesser degree) engineers and military police. And I say that as a retired straight-leg infantry officer who started his career as a PFC in mortar section of a line infantry company.

            Your comparison to Israeli soldiers is still disingenuous, not only because there is a measurable difference in average intelligence of the underlying societies, but because of a difference in societal motivation. The IDF, like Israeli society as a whole, sees its role as primarily an existential defense of the homeland (versus the U.S. military’s [almost imperial] role of attacking perceived threats in the *enemy’s* back yard), and there is ample historical evidence to show how all armies perform at a much higher level when literally defending their homes (witness how a mix of Wehrmacht and volksturm troops with virtually no logistical support lasted almost 2 weeks in a hopeless defense against a well-supported Red Army offensive which outnumbered them more than 15-to-1). In the case of the IDF, I suggest looking at the contrast between how well they defended the Golan Heights versus how they performed during the Israeli invasion and occupation of Southern Lebanon.

          • Martin Grønsdal

            you are talking about apples, and I am talking about oranges. That the IDF could fight differentially in Lebanon or the Golan is one thing. Germans who were not nazis wouldn’t fight very hard in the attack on Poland, but the same type of people may have had a totally different motivation in defending Berlin.

            you know, that argument is as if I said that the US military is poorly trained because you lost Vietnam. Everyone knows that Vietnam was lost due to political intolerance to 50.000 US deaths there, and not quality of the military.

            However, I am talking about the average person that the armed forces consist of: today, in the US there is no draft. Some boys will always join, because they are interested. All the others join for specific reasons; patriotism, lack of jobs, etc.

            In israel, every guy is drafted (and a lot of females aswell). The IDF will automatically reflect the average is israels soceity. The US forces won’t.

            Let me give you an example: the US produces some of the best military planes and hardware. How many of the engineers and scientist that develop that did ever serve?

            how many of current senators and congresmen have served?

            after the conscription ended – no one. Why? they didn’t have to. They found meaningful jobs and careers somewhere else.

            also; do you think that the average volunteer IQ matches the IQ of us population?

          • wclardy

            Mr.Grønsdal, may I ask how many IDF soldiers have you actually met?
            Also, I would remind you that I disagree with your contention that the difference in the average intelligence of the 2 underlying societies *does* have a bearing on your comparison. That difference, in conjunction with the difference in mission (homeland defense versus expeditionary), accounts for much of the IDF’s reputation — a reputation which is at odds with their generally poor logistical capability and an acknowledged reputation for not maintaining their equipment.

          • Martin Grønsdal

            I think you misunderstood my comment; I said there is NO difference in IQ in the society.

            I have met a huge amount of IDF soldiers, I don’t know how that should be an argument.

          • wclardy

            I’ll be darned — now it’s my turn to drop a stereotype. You are correct that there doesn’t appear to be a significant difference, and the U.S. actually has a slightly higher average IQ (98 versus 95).
            The reason I was asking about how many IDF soldiers you’ve met was to find out whether your opinion was based on direct observation or on subtly pervasive Jewish propaganda (which makes it look like the “I” in IDF stands for “Invincible”).
            Also, just to be clear, the comment about pervasive propaganda is not part of some notion that there is a vast Jewish conspiracy, just an acknowledgement that the meme exists, it has served the Israelis well many times over the years, and the Jewish community happily keeps reiterating it because it is a comforting notion.

          • Martin Grønsdal

            I think I know what you mean. What I ment is simply this: in Israel your plumber and doctor serves, along with future scientists and lawyers. And that us the rule.

            In the us, more disadvantaged have resons to serve, and very few of them become scientists or lawyers.

            And all that is a result of draft/no draft.

          • Hyok Kim

            I think you meant ‘Zionist’, not Jewish. A lot of Jewish people are not pro-Zionists.

          • Hyok Kim

            The more proper analogy would be that of Rome.

            Rome fought well both in aggressive/mercenary operation abroad and purely defensive in homeland operation while being primarily a conscript army, overall in general, certainly as good as when Roman army became purely professional all volunteer force, in overall operations while politically being more stable.

            Early Republican Roman army and sometime late Republican Roman army were conscripts mostly while sometime late Republican Roman army and imperial army became all volunteer professional force.

            Purely tactically, all volunteer forces were more proficient, but they were no better in discipline overall than conscript army, and politically far more unstable, no better in operations stage.

            Rome at her strongest, politically, economically, and militarily were mostly conscript army at rank and file, while command were all volunteer, with the volunteers being the high society of Rome.

            Today’s U.S. military does not reflect Rome at her strongest.

          • Hyok Kim

            “the classic combat arms are heavily skewed the other way, with a disproportionate representation of whites.”

            I don’t know about that. When I see people being killed in combat zone, I hear a lot of Hispanic names.

          • wclardy

            I did not mean to imply that only “non-hispanic whites” (to use a term I detest) sign up for serving on the bleeding edge, just that there is a solid, rational demographic tendency which runs very much counter to the Vietnam-vintage stereotype.

          • Hyok Kim

            “The sociological consensus is that the economically disadvantaged minorities are more likely to enlist as a job or to obtain skills they can use to get a civilian job later, while the white recruits enlist are more likely to enlist out of a desire for adventure (or a sense of obligation).” – wclardy

            “On the one hand, white youths are frequently looking for adventure while they try to raise money for college.” – from

            http://ashbrook.org/publications/oped-owens-02-combat/

            ……like they say, money talks, BS walks. How much likely would the ‘whites’ enlist if no money for college, no combat bonus, and minimum wage for the duration?

          • wclardy

            That’s a legitimate question, Mr. Kim. My own anecdotal experience from the last few years has led me to conclude that our current military is very mercenary indeed, but I don’t know how much of that entitlement culture is acquired and how much comes in with the recruits.

          • Hyok Kim

            “My own anecdotal experience from the last few years has led me to conclude that our current military is very mercenary indeed, but I don’t know how much of that entitlement culture is acquired and how much comes in with the recruits.”

            Both.

          • Martin Grønsdal

            Oh. One more thing: that the US foreign policy has given the USMC a chance to prove itself is one thing. I would still think that its Israeli equivalent would automatically be more capable, because it would reflect the average of the Israeli soceity better.

          • Richard Kroll

            As an American veteran and supporter of “adopted” Marines in Somalia, Desert Storm, Irag and Afghanistan; I share the pride of the fierce fighting in battles especially Fallujah I and II. But I recoil at this arrogant talk of who is better. Save that for the Russians and the Chinese. USMC didn’t win any laurels when the video appeared of the scout snipers urinating on the dead Afghan enemy.

          • Hyok Kim

            “I think the USMC’s operation history and achievements speaks for itself, ……….”

            U.S. army didn’t have very high opinion of the USMC senior leadership during WW2 in the Pacific theater, and neither do I. (rank and file are different story, but rank and files don’t win the war, senior leadership does.)

            https://thepopulist.wordpress.com/never-faithful-the-rivalry-between-our-army-and-marines/

            http://www.historynet.com/smith-vs-smith.htm

            He said, “If it were a question of having a Marine Corps of 5,000 whites or 250,000 Negroes, I would rather have the whites.”[2]

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Holcomb#Commandant_of_the_Marine_Corps

            “…. and might conflict significantly with a conscript of Norway opinion based upon a dog and pony show.”

            USMC had not relied on draft?

            Only time in ‘modern’ history (other than now since 80s or late 70s) where USMC relied on volunteers was during ‘Banana Wars’ period.

            Certainly not the most glamorous period of USMC.

          • Scabby Jack

            Did they use Eotech rifle sights? you know, the ones that shifted the point of impact more the colder it got? The ones that have been recalled? That would explain much.

          • Martin Grønsdal

            They borrowed G36’s 🙂

          • Hyok Kim

            Hey, does it have to do with cross country ski endurance? People cannot shoot accurately when their heart beat becomes fast and irregular

          • Double A.D.

            What year was this? I was in Norway back in 98? I remember that the Norwegians and the Swedes had optics on their rifles and we were firing with irons. They did score better than we did. The rest, you’ll didn’t do so well. And any nation that serves fish in a little tiny tube should be ashamed of itself.

          • Martin Grønsdal

            2000 or 2001

        • Ullan

          Truth is thought impedes action. And military action is the most primal. USMC are made of individuals who recognize this fact, and emphasize aggression above all.
          This cannot be replaced by technology, better skills or social skills. As the U.S empires decline attests.
          Few nations would be able to defeat USMC on the field, unless they are able to draw from individuals with a similiar warrior spirit. Hispanics and blacks have that, if you ever been to a majority nation run by them. Norway on the other hand do not.

          • Martin Grønsdal

            Can you provide any research for this statement?

          • town22

            History, WW II, remember Hitler took over Norway and put it away.

          • Hyok Kim

            Let’s keep in mind, Norway didn’t have the economic, industrial, or population base to be able to fight off Germany.

            Doesn’t mean necessarily she had inferior soldiers. IJA invited Norweigian ski units for their winter warfare training, instead of Germany.

          • wclardy

            Very true, Mr. Kim.
            It’s also worth remembering that, immediately prior to the German invasion (which pre-empted an imminent British invasion by mere days), the Norwegians had front-row seats to the Russo-Finnish War, watching the Red Army demonstrate the futility of resistance when the invaders will keep coming after running your skilled soldiers out of bullets.

          • Hyok Kim

            “…. the Norwegians had front-row seats to the Russo-Finnish War, watching the Red Army demonstrate the futility of resistance when the invaders will keep coming after running your skilled soldiers out of bullets.”

            Let’s qualify that a little bit. Soviets succeeded not just due to attrition, but also naval landing that outflanked the Finns.

            Soviets could attack Finns both on land and sea. Germans could attack only through the Sea, which was far more difficult than through land. Not only that, the disparity of industry and manpower between Germany and Norway was far less than that between Finland and Soviet Union.

            So, yes, theoretically Norway could have resisted more tenaciously than she did, but for what purpose? Without outside support, Norway could have merely delayed the inevitable.

            Besides, Germany vitally needed the oil and iron ore from Norway. It wasn’t just merely a vanity trip for Hitler.

          • Richard Kroll

            Read about the winter warriors that stopped the heavy water from leaving the Lillihammer area that would have helped the German development of nuclear weapons. Damn corrageous winter warfare tactics.

          • wclardy

            Mr. Ullan’s argument confuses tactical ability (which wins firefights) with operational and logistical ability (which wins battles and wars).

          • Hyok Kim

            “Truth is thought impedes action.”

            Maybe Japanese should have thought more before acting before Pearl harbor?

            “And military action is the most primal.”

            Winners do not go to wars for the purpose of fighting battles.

            “USMC are made of individuals who recognize this fact, and emphasize aggression above all.”

            So did IJA, IJN even more than USMC.

            “This cannot be replaced by technology, better skills or social skills. As the U.S empires decline attests”

            Better (sometimes) technology (and logistics) did wonders for the Allies in WW2. Better social skills would have done wonders for IJA, IJN such as not picking irrational objectives.

            “Few nations would be able to defeat USMC on the field, unless they are able to draw from individuals with a similiar warrior spirit.”

            IJA had more aggressive spirit, but poor logistics, and they lost.

            “Hispanics and blacks have that, if you ever been to a majority nation run by them.”

            When was the last time we had a superpower with majority Hispanic and black population?

            “Norway on the other hand do not.”

            Norway is a very resourceful nation, a distinguishing mark of Scandinavian countries.

            IJA (with her obsession about learning from the best) chose Norweigian ski units for their winter warfare training. She could have chosen the best from Germany, or Finland, had she wanted.

            While back, with her small population, she came up with the best sounding RTR decks, Tandbergs, beating Germany, Swiss, Japan, and USA with far bigger economic and technology base.

            Besides, she has Sissel, the most versatile singer ever.

      • Simcha M.

        Touche!!

      • Phil Hsueh

        Or out at 29 Palms for that matter.

        • Jesse Foust

          Cruel and unusual.

    • Richard Kroll

      Just don’t buy the F-35. Love your country. Spent time in Molde, Sunndal and Kristiansund training with the Red Cross SAR. Now the artic, that’s different.

    • Jesse Foust

      I read through most of your argument below, but not all the way. I will say this, it’s not polite to lead with such a backhanded insult. Further, If you take a man, even a well disciplined Marine and drop him into an environment vastly different from what he is accustomed to, he will struggle. Every Marine base is in what we in the US would call the “South” and coastal. From a European perspective, around the latitude of southern Spain or Italy, or closer to the equator. Now, you put them in an uncomfortable environment, put them in snowshoes all day (relatively difficult, no matter how fit you are), and they become miserable. And this is a misery they are completely unfamiliar with. In my own experience it is easier to function in uncomfortable heat than uncomfortable cold, relative temperatures aside. For what it’s worth, Semper Fidelis, and good day.

  • Frank Martin

    I noticed that they had one person using a G3.. Rock-ON!!!

  • MechanizedSwede

    I did my mil-service in simmiliar conditions, -40c was the coldest we had. Im acctually on the train to an excerise in the north of sweden right now, we are taking on some danes and finns. Im not going to cold response this year, but was there in 2014. Only good things to say about the norwegians! Met some usmc and royal marines over there aswell, i think they had it pretty rough. Nuff said.

    • Martin Grønsdal

      At least the Americans behave when off duty. The English are hooligans. When I was a police officer in northern Norway I restricted the 2. Para, and other British units, to their barracks. We simply didn’t have resources enough to handle them.

      The Dutch and Polish, however, were super polite and our local community liked them.

      • gusto

        the english are the worst everywhere

        ever go on a holiday to Spain? DON*T!!! filled with drunken englishmen and both the men and women look like Wayne Rooney.

        I met some 2rep FFL, those dude could party, jovial but man they gave me the creeps

      • wclardy

        Number 2 Para is an interesting outfit — we hosted them at Fort Campbell back during the last millennium, and we were all a little rough around the edges. Our guys would trail their patrols, then jump the last guy and take his jacket as a trophy. When we had a end-of-training beer bash with them in the back of the orderly room, one of their sergeants did a strip-tease on the supply sergeant’s desk, with his troops providing the musical accompaniment. It looked hilarious when one of their officers came up and (I think) told him to make sure the men didn’t get out of hand — the sergeant hopped down to report, drunk, naked except for his socks, standing at a attention and snapping a parade-ground perfect British-style salute.

        • Martin Grønsdal

          In Harstad, Norway, they fondled 30 women and got into 15 barfights…

          • wclardy

            Yeah, that sounds like a later generation of the same 2 Para spirit.

  • Markbo

    Hey Genius…30° C is about 87° F!
    What a Maroon

    • Charlie Uniform

      You missed the minus sign in front of it.

      • Doctor Jelly

        No he didn’t; the text in the article says below 30°C (instead of 30° below), the video says -30°C…

  • tony

    Frog lube is not welcome there

  • Madcap_Magician

    My old National Guard company has an ongoing exchange program where we always sent guys to Norway to participate in these joint exercises. Of course… we are Minnesotans, so most of us look like Norwegians, and the temperature tends to be the same…

  • Pathetic!!!

  • mosinman

    your point? of 2000 or so people polled only 74 percent got it right. if anything it’s more of an estimate than a real number which is how these polls work. this of course still has nothing to do with the original discussion……

  • Sam Green

    I bet if you gave every one of these Norwegian troops an Eotech, they probably wouldn’t have one malfunction.

    Many years ago I thought it was miserable when I went to Ft. Leonard Wood in the dead of winter for boot camp, I was always wet, tired and cold, but these Norwegians facing -30 cannot be fun

    PS; That 1st female Army engineer; Erika Lopez that went AWOL last week at Ft Leonard Wood, who decided to not come back to Ft Leonard Wood after her leave is a bit sad, it’s a shame the 1st woman engineer in history decided going AWOL was a good idea, if in fact it was purposeful.

    Had she wandered off while still in that area, they’ll find her in the spring after she defrosts, but she went on leave and simply never came back.
    Leonard Wood can be a tough place to train in the winter, I remember one soldier that tried to commit suicide with a dull bayonet, he didn’t know all he had to do was quit.

  • town22

    30 degrees celsius is 86 fahrenheit

  • Eric B.

    As a NordicSki Patroller in Pennsylvania I trained US Army ROTC cadets form two colleges in winter survival in both indoor classes and weekend bivouacs. We flew in to our areas via Chinook choppers. I was the “local guide” and first aid person. I had a ski patrol radio in case I needed to call for an ambulance. I used skis, the cadets used Army snowshoes. Every year without fail at least one cadet would burn their Mickey Mouse boots by the fire.

  • wclardy

    In my experience, most NATO soldiers misunderstood (and misapplied) Red Army tactics and doctrine when portraying the “opposing force”. Their doctrine becomes much more understandable if you plan for degraded command and control (e.g., like when most of your radio communications are getting jammed or drawing artillery fire) while fighting a battle involving more than 2 or 3 platoons in contact.

    If you remember all the talk about how critical getting inside the enemy’s ODA loop could be, Soviet tactics were cold-bloodedly designed to drive a big force through defending troops’ ability to “observe, decide, shoot” in less time than the defenders could effectively attrit them — at the U.S. National Training Center, blue forces would get caught in the “Fort Irwin 500” when they kept shooting so long that the OPFOR was right on their heels as they tried to displace their secondary positiions, shooting at them all the way.

  • Miguel Raton

    I thought the Finns were the “subject matter experts of winter warfare?” Heck, they even have a war *named* for it [the Winter War of ’39, when the Soviet Union invaded, more or less simultaneously with the Soviet collaboration with the Nazis in divvying up Poland…] Tsk. How soon we forget… ;-D