Top 5 Short Barrel Rifles/Shotguns (and What You Need to Know about ATF 41P Executive Order NOW)

In this episode of TFBTV, James and Army Ranger Jacque B. (Ret.) present James’ picks for the Top 5 Short Barreled Rifles/Shotguns (SBR/SBS) that you can own. The main factors considered are “QVC”, or Quality, Versatility, and Cost. While quality and cost speak for themselves, versatility is important with an SBR/S because short barrel guns are costly and tedious to buy and sell, so flexibility in caliber and modification are critical for most SBR owners. James and Jacque give you the list, and even run the guns suppressed and unsuppressed for your viewing pleasure.  James also gives you a brief rundown of the corporation and trust changes that will take place in July under the new ATF 41P executive order from President Obama.

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The transcript …

– Hey guys, James again for TFB TV, and I’m lucky enough to have Jacque with me.

Army Ranger, you guys may have seen him in some of the previous videos.

Today, we’re gonna tackle the top five SBR’s, and how do you come to what the top five SBR’s actually are? Well, it’s pretty difficult, but this is from the civilian perspective.

So, not only do we look at quality, How good of a gun is this? But, versatility and cost, because the thing is, most of us civilians, we’re gonna do our tax stamp.

And, we’re stuck with this gun for the rest of our lives.

I mean, you know, of course not permanently, but it’s a pain in the ass.

And, speaking of a pain in the ass, you guys may have heard about the new executive order that’s changing the way NFA trust operate.

As I sit here today, you have about a 175 days to get your NFA trust paperwork, to get your form ones, form fours, whatever, in the name of your trust.

You’ve gotta get them pending 180 days from the order.

Get them pending, but this is the last time that you’re going to be able to do this without your fingerprints, without your photo, getting a passport photo.

Thank god, they’re eliminating the Chief Law Enforcement Officer sign-off, regardless.

So, even if you wait past the 180 days, the only real difference is you’re going to have to get that fingerprint card, you’re going to have to get your photograph taken.

Not a big deal, but anyways, we thought that this was a time-sensitive video, and very appropriate.

So, let’s start things off, now again, remember versatility, cost, quality.

So, number five.

You guys already know what this is, the HK MP5.

(ringing) It’s been around for about 50 years.

(gun shots) It’s been improved continually by HK, decade after decade after decade they’re still constantly improving it.

Now, does it get any sweeter than that? Answer, definately not.

It is the standard for a pistol caliber carbine, it is the standard for reliability, it’s built like a tank, runs like a Swiss watch.

These things are just so badass, they look so slick, and the parts are plentiful, you’re looking at about 1,500 dollars for parts kit.

Well, I’m getting ahead of myself.

Parts are plentiful, mags are plentiful, but there’s your downside, is what I just mentioned.

A parts kit’s about 1,500 dollars.

And, a lot of people think they can get their hands on an HK parts kit and a flat, and they’re all set, but it’s really not the case.

You then have to send it to a gun smith to get worked on, to get put together, fitted, refinished, and that’ll run you a 1,000 to 1,500 dollars.

I don’t know if you knew that Jacque, – No I didn’t, I tell you what but that’s, – Now, this is a great gun, and everybody wants one, they look cool as hell.

But, 2,500 bucks, plus you need a gun smith to work on it, you’re stuck with nine millimeter.

It isn’t like you can really change the uppers on this, once you have it, this is it, you’ve got it.

They make some good third party accessories for it, it is a little outdated, there’s no last round bolt hold-open, there’s not a lot of picatinny rail.

( gun shots) Jam? – Yup. – [James] Empty.

– Empty run, (voice drowned out by gun clicking) – No bolt hold-open, ya.

But, fortunately, there’s a lot of third-party support for this gun.

You do have the tri lug adapter, this tri lug interface is awesome.

I mean, quarter twist, and your suppressor’s on, it’s off.

(gun shots) So, this is the A3 version with the telescoping stock.

I love this setup, it’s very mild, I mean it weighs almost seven pounds.

I think it’s 6.8 pounds, so it’s a little on the heavy side, but it really soaks up that nine millimeter recoil like it’s nothing.

The reason why it’s number five, we talk about, quality, cost, versatility.

This is probably the utmost quality gun you can get, but in terms of versatility, you’ve got some good third-party support and accessories.

But, you’re stuck with a nine millimeter pistol caliber carbine, that’s it.

And, in terms of cost, this one’s one of the most expensive.

So, while I’d like this MP5 to be higher, it’s number five.

(bell ringing) Moving onto number four.

Number four is an SBR AK-47, some people call it the Shushka, some people call it the Krinkov, some people just refer to him by model number.

This is the Yugoslavian M92, the Zastava M92.

I’m a huge fan, I’ve got a little bit of a bias in favor of these AKs, I actually did a video.

I’m going to spare you the detailed specs on this gun, and just refer you to the video I did on this Zastava M92.

Go check that out, and you’ll get a little bit more in terms of specs.

Now, what do I like? Why is this in the top five? God, first of all it’s an AK, it has to be in this top five.

You can’t argue with it, it’s got semi-standard parts that are inexpensive, so remember the number five, the HK MP5.

Parts are available, but they’re expensive.

Here, you can get on just about any website that deals with guns, and you’re gonna be able to get accessories for this gun.

You know, a lot of people might not say that AK is a quality gun, because of the way they’re built.

But, you know, if you get a good one, they’re reliable, they’re accurate, they’re lethal, they just (beep) work, that’s the bottom line.

Now, as far as the downsides go, the main downside of the AK is these are one of the trickiest guns to convert.

This started it’s life as an M92 pistol, and I bought it without doing much research into what needed to be done to convert it.

This was, gosh, almost 10 years ago.

So, I payed a pretty penny for this M92 pistol from Vector, then I sent it off to Henderson Defense to have it converted.

They’ve gotta remove the trunnion, fit the stock, you gotta buy the stock, and they gotta refinish the whole gun.

So, it ends up being pretty expensive if you don’t know what you’re doing.

There are other good options like Cave or Arsenal, you can just buy straight from them, and get the tax stamp, pay for the tax stamp.

Or, you can buy a 16-inch model and get it chopped down.

They’re ready to convert, those are nice, and they’re top quality, they’re the best AKs you can get, but they’re also 2,000 dollars.

This isn’t like the AR where you can just pop the upper off, and put something on there.

Or, it isn’t like some of the new pistol caliber carbines.

Where you buy it as a pistol, and you just slap a stock on the back.

You just can’t do it.

So, that’s the main reason why this is number four, and not higher on the list, because of how difficult the conversion process can be.

And, another issue, not nearly as versatile as something like the AR.

You’re more or less, you buy this, you’re stuck with this barrel length, you’re stuck with this caliber.

Unless, you want to get a gun smith.

So, the AK, I love it.

I wish I could make it higher, but I can’t.

So, it is number four (bell ringing) on the top five.

For number three on the top five, I’ve got the Remington 870 short-barrel shotgun.

And, why is it number three in the top five? Well, you know, we said cost, we said quality, we said versatility.

This is one of the most inexpensive guns that you can get and convert.

All you need to do is go to Walmart, spend 250, 350 bucks, buy a Remington 870.

Or, you can spend a little bit more, but we’re talking, five, 600 bucks for a police model like this one.

And, send in your paperwork, send in your tax stamp, wait a few weeks, and when it comes back.

It’s as easy, takes 15 seconds to put this, a 14-inch barrel like this one on there.

You can go for 12, or 16, but if you go below 18 you need to get it SBR’d.

Another option that’s popular is to get it as an AOW, an any other weapon.

I think that costs like five bucks to do. – Oh, shit.

– Ya, ya, it’s like five bucks, but if you can’t do the bucket shot.

Then you can do the pistol grip, so it’s still pretty gnarly.

But, that said, in terms of cost.

Nothing on this list is gonna be able to touch this gun in terms of cost, because you are out the door with your tax stamp and everything for 455 dollars.

It’s relatively versatile, because you can change the barrels, there’s tons of accessories for it.

It’s the 870, they gotta make tens of thousands of accessories for it.

But, also on the downside in terms of versatility.

While 12 gauge gives you a lot of options through the caliber range.

You’re still stuck with a 12 gauge, and what else can you do with a 12 gauge, besides, ya know, blow shit up.

Now, that said, that’s not necessarily a bad thing.

(gun shots) Oh man, there’s more in here.

– [Jacque] Nice shit man, take a walk that’s like– – And also, this is a very, very, viable home defense choice.

There are a lotta people who’re more comfortable with a shotgun, and you want something a little bit shorter than the 18-inch that you can buy at the store.

So, you can get a 14-incher like this and you’ve got a serviceable, and proven home defense weapon.

So, we talked about cost, we talked about versatility, quality.

What more do you want? It’s a Remington 870, it’s bulletproof man.

And, it might not be the sexiest, or the most exciting thing, but I think it still looks pretty damn cool.

And, I think you guys should give this a hard look, and that’s why it’s number three. (bell ringing) Okay, now onto number two, and that is the SIG MPX.

Now, why is the SIG MPX number 2? Again, we’re looking at quality, cost, versatility.

Quality, this is a German SIG designed gun.

I’m not sure it gets any better than that.

You got HK, and this is right up there in terms of quality.

Now, it’s not proven like the HK is, but I think that there is a lot of potential for this gun, and I think it ultimately is going to be the MPX moniker, I think was selected for a reason.

And, that’s because they see this as the successor to the MP5, and that very well may be the case.

It’s nice, because you get the same manual of arms as you do with an AR.

Your safety is right here, mag release, it’s ambi, boat release, this is more or less an AR lower.

Now, why is it number two on the list? Cost.

This one, it’s not the cheapest gun around, it’s not as cheap as the 870, and really you can do an AK.

A shortened AK for cheaper than this.

I think I paid about eleven, or 1,200 dollars street price for this MPX.

And then, you had to buy the stock, moving kinda the versatility, they’re not really that cheap.

Right now, there’s not a lot of third-party support you can, for 70 dollars, you can get an AR stock converter.

Or, you just throw an AR stock on here, which is kind of cool.

And, a cheap way to get into it, but this stock is 300 dollars, the telescoping from SIG, as are the folding stocks that they make.

You’re in eleven or 1,200 dollars for the gun, and you’re in, you know, 100 to 300 dollars depending on the route you take for the stock.

It’s not the cheapest, but it’s certainly not the most expensive.

It’s still half as much as the MP5, and it offers a lot of features that the MP5 doesn’t.

You get a free floating rail right out of the box.

You can change the uppers, you can convert calibers.

Talking about versatility.

You can go from nine to 40 to 357 SIG with this gun.

Now, magazines are easy to get, and they’re making ’em, but SIG calm the (beep) down with this 70 dollar, this is a polymer magazine, shouldn’t cost 70 dollars.

So, I bought three of ’em, well I got one.

And then, I’m in the whole, you know, I think 130 bucks for the other two that I bought. – [Jacque] (voice too quiet) – Ya, ya Lancer mix ’em so they’re top quality.

But, they’re polymer.

Lancer, I know you make M16 magazines for 15 dollars each.

(chuckling) Do better SIG, do better.

But, that said, this is a sweet gun, and I would not be surprised if it surpassed the MP5.

So, upside, it’s relatively inexpensive, it’s convertable, you can change the uppers, you can change the barrel length without a gun smith.

You can change the caliber, you can switch the stocks, you don’t need to send this gun off to get SBR’d, and (beep) this is a good looking, and high quality gun.

So that’s why this is my number two.

(bell ringing) And, finally the number one, you guys saw this coming a mile away.

There’s no question that it’s the AR, we talk about cost, we talk about quality, we talk about versatility.

This one’s got all of them in spades.

First of all, you can buy lower right now, for 40 bucks now, – Yup, yup. it’s, ya– the stripped lower.

So, right now, I feel like you should have your America card taken away from you.

If you don’t have strip lower with a 200 dollar tax stamp on it.

Just SBR a strip lower, you know, cost you 200 bucks, you can get the 200 bucks back if you change your mind.

You just rip up the paperwork, let the ATF know, and people don’t know that, but you can get your 200 bucks back.

So, that said, you’re in 240 bucks for the base.

Now, of course, you’re gonna be in a little bit more for the upper, and the lower components, finishing it all out, you guys can spend as much as 500 bucks.

Right? – [Jacque] Yup, (mumbling) – It’s a– – It’s just up to buyer.

– Right, right. It’s up to the buyer.

And, you can get one of these for an SBR for, you know, go to Palmetto State Armory, buy an upper for 200, 250 bucks.

A complete upper for like 300 bucks.

And, then your lower, get a lower parts kit.

I mean, you might be out like five, 600 bucks before your stamp, and you have one of the most versatile guns on the planet.

They make every freakin’ accessory that you can imagine for this gun.

You can change calibers to just about any caliber, I mean, they make caliber conversions for shit you shouldn’t even be firing out of this thing.

So, I mean it is probably the most versatile gun on the face of the earth right now.

Accessories, magazines, I mean magazines, you can buy Mil spec magazines. – That’s it – Yes, seven bucks, seven bucks each.

– A must have– – Yeah, yeah, a must have, this is a must have, and it’s not even close, nothing else in this list touches the AR.

Now, what are the downsides? Literally zero.

The downside is if you don’t have one of these, have a good look at yourself, analyze what you’re doing with your life, and make some corrections.

Because, this is the number one gun on the list.

(bell ringing) – That’s awesome.

– Alright let’s (beep) shoot these things. – (voice drowned out) – That’s about right dude, everything.

James Reeves

James Reeves is a licensed and practicing concealed weapons instructor, the winner of Maxim Magazine’s MAXIMum Warrior, a graduate of Front Sight, the Shooter Performance Institute, and Tier 1 Group, and is an Appleseed-qualified Rifleman. James previously owned and operated a gun shop in Tallahassee, FL and worked as a regional sales representative for distributor/importer, Interstate Arms Company. He is a coverage litigation attorney by day. James likes traveling with his wife, boating, America, photography, guns, gear he doesn’t really need, cold beer, and a little exercise here and there (James is also GORUCK Tough). Above all, James enjoys creating content for TFBTV. Follow James on Twitter @jjreeves.


  • pc299

    I’m surprised the MPX was on your list and not the CZ Scorpion Evo. The Evo has a much better track record (no gen 1/gen 2 due to issues) and is considerably cheaper: $800 vs $1200+, stock/922r kit for the Scorpion is only $200 and mags are almost 1/4th the price $20 vs. close to $80 for the MPX

    • Reason number 37 the Evo sucks:
      I kept 4 magazines loaded for a month. All now have cracked feed lips.

      • pc299

        I know they had issues with the first generation of magazines, contact CZ and they’ll replace all of that generation no questions asked.

        • JumpIf NotZero

          Such an overblown issue. Not a single report of the latest mags having issues.

          On top of that, they’re $20 where SIG’s are $70.

      • JumpIf NotZero

        The Evo sucks but you recommend an MPX?

        The MPX is a joke suppressed. If you’re going to SBR, you’re likely going to suppress. SIG couldn’t have dropped the ball harder. As where the Evo has a military heritage of being used for 7 years now.

        THIS is why you need training. You don’t have any idea what makes a gun decent. You’re a fish following the shiny lure bro.

        • I never recommended the MPX.

          • JumpIf NotZero

            No, but this topic is about the Evo vs MPX and you hop in with Evo sucks. Therefor…. Follow it through…

          • I hopped in with a relevant photograph I took regarding a serious issue with a product I purchased that is relevant to this list/video as a whole.

          • JumpIf NotZero

            Serious issue… Funny because aside from you claiming you have four, I’ve seen a couple other posts around the internet and the Czech military has been running them since 2009.

            Not a single report of a new magazine with this issue.

            “Reason 37″…. lol, pretty funny considering the source.

          • “Not a single report of a new magazine with this issue.”
            I literally just posted a picture of one of mine.

          • JumpIf NotZero

            Heh. Paul really let this site go to hell.

            Yes, CZ said they had a bad batch and swapped people out. Not one report of a swapped mag having a failure.

            You know… For someone in your position as an official of a site, I’d probably be more careful with the implications I tossed around.

          • Or what, exactly?

          • JumpIf NotZero

            Not an “OR What”. Grow up.

            As matter of being an adult and mindful of the site’s reputation.

          • What implications are you concerned about? That if we criticize a company’s products because they don’t perform very well, that we’ll sink as a company?

            Maybe, but Paul made that decision long ago. If a company’s products aren’t up to snuff, we’ll tell our readers about it. That’s the way we do business. So far, it’s working out pretty well.

          • Bill

            A lot of stuff just sucks, but people are afraid to say that. It’s gotten to the point where there’s about zero reliable info in the field, because at best every “review” is a sample of one. If only some media mogul had the horsepower to go into SIG (for example ONLY) and pull 10 to 20 samples of any given item randomly out of stock and test them. It’s the way weapons are selected, supposedly, mostly, though I’m confident hand-picked sleepers get slipped in sometimes.

          • As a freelancer who does work for this blog, I chuckled a bit at “position as an official”.
            That said, I am paid to test products relevant to our reader’s interests and provide feedback. My opinions are based entirely on my own experiences (much of which I capture on camera to show you guys) and I form my ideas based on practical observations.
            I hardly see how my evaluations (which I am proud to provide) could adversely effect this site’s reputation.

          • hydepark

            Yeah, Jump. Don’t you know it’s Phil’s job to threaten people around here?

            Personally I like this blog. I also think there’s a lot wrong with it. Mostly the disdain for politics, frequent editing mistakes, misinformation, etc. But I thoroughly enjoy watching the good, the bad, and the ugly here.

          • JSmath

            Alex, I am pretty sure you missed the use of terms Jump made there.

            Are your mags one of the new ones, specifically? The most reliable way of answering that particular question would be to answer: Have they been replaced before? He didn’t say there are no reports of their magazines being bad, and had already asked if you had sent them in for CZ’s free-of-charge replacement.

            I haven’t been up on a lot of his other comments in this particular thread, don’t take this as an attack plzkthnx.

        • It’s funny you mention training, because you’re easily the least helpful regular commenter we have on this blog.

          Your only goal here seems to be to strut around and crow about how smart and tactical you are, but you don’t seem to care about the issues other people have (your CZ mags broke? Must be YOUR fault for not having enough training!), or their different perspectives on the hobby.

          I bet the fact that I even used the word “hobby” bugs you. Yes, for some of us, guns are a hobby, not a job or a “lifestyle”. That’s why it’s really amusing when you come in here and criticize Alex’s run-n-guns, which he does with submachine guns and single-shot rifles equally because he wants to and because people enjoy watching. WHOOSH that goes over your head every time, because you’re too busy worrying about whether Alex’s efficiency of motion is optimized for operating in a tactical high-threat environment.

          I’m being rough with you here, but take this as the constructive criticism it is. I’ve taught enough people how to shoot to know that the first thing you have to do to help people learn is to bring yourself down to their level. You don’t do that, instead you shove your experience such as it is into peoples faces and chastise them for not being as “trained” as you, without backing that up in any way, and without acknowledging that there are other ways to get experience besides training.

          I dunno if you’re here just to get your kicks or to honestly try to help people, but if it’s the latter, you are going about it in pretty much exactly the opposite way you should be. That’s why you’ve not become a respected commenter here, but instead have a reputation for being a bit stuck up.

          That’s just how I see it, but then I tend to give a whole dollar where two cents would have probably been enough.

          • JumpIf NotZero

            Lol, you think I’m here to help everyone? Why would you have that idea? I have a general disdain for “gun collectors” which is what this site is made up of – unfortunate as that is!

            The number of “derp 10mm! subgun” and “tacticool” and “harr operatorly operating” posts… The ones you make along with them. Heh… far too many.

            There are probably two people here that post who actually know their stuff. And a few that don’t comment. Those people, I don’t mind posting up my opinion for.

            You’re funny because you seem to imply that everyone’s opinion is valid 🙂 I suppose everyone deserves a trophy too.

            I love that you think upvotes and internet points mean anything.

          • G0rdon_Fr33man

            Are you Larry Vickers? 😛

          • JumpIf NotZero

            Oh you cut me deep man. I take offense to that. Unlike LAV I run a 2-mile for time or a 13 mile without a heart attack.

          • G0rdon_Fr33man

            What I don´t get is why you spend so many calories trying to make everything into a pissing contest. I mean, the beauty of the “gun world” is all its facets. Collectors, competitors, hunters and military/police. Personally, I´m a competition shooter at heart, with a side-interest of strange and unique (practicality be damned) mechanisms. HK P7, P9, automags like Wildey, LAR and AMP, Matebas. Could not care less for high-speed low-drag range-oper8in.

          • Kivaari

            I can’t understand why anyone would hold gun collectors in such low regard. I don’t collect guns. I figure if it is too good to use, than I should sell it to a collector. I love working guns. I have always said, “My friends have the best gun collection I ever owned”. A couple of those collections have over 300 guns in them.

          • st4

            “I hate gun collectors because I’m a serious operator type,” is just as retarded as saying, “I hate car collectors because I’m a racer.” Conclusion: he’s retarded.

          • Kivaari

            Just think a car collector could have many-one-of-a-kind, that won big. A couple 1930 era racing cars would be great. Especially if they had guns of the previous owner.

          • Mack

            Anybody else wonder how Jump stays in shape when he is commenting on every single article, basically ever written here, and is online most of the time?

          • Cymond

            Sounds more like ‘James Yeager syndrome’.
            Next thing we know, he’ll be offering 2 plane tickets to a remote country and only one ticket back.

          • That certainly clears up what little ambiguity existed.

          • Don Ward

            The hilarity being that in the world of shooting sports, there are scores of different types of guns and multiple different shooting styles and techniques which have been used over decades… All of which are “correct”.

            But one-size-fits-all-I-took-a-training-class-one-weekend Jump doesn’t seem to understand that.

            Also, I think he probably smells of elderberries.

          • JumpIf NotZero

            But one-size-fits-all-I-took-a-training-class-one-weekend Jump doesn’t seem to understand that.

            Oh, golly… I wish I could get you on the range 🙂

          • Don Ward

            No thanks. I’ve already watched the Sulsa Do Corp martial arts firearm training video on YouTube.
            I don’t need to see a recreation of it in real life.

          • Kivaari

            I hadn’t until Thursday. They videos were done as a spoof, right? Or were those people serious?

          • Don Ward

            The general consensus that I’ve seen is that the original Sulsa Du Corp videos are serious. The Internet is a strange place though.

          • Bill

            I’m your huckleberry, where and when?

          • JSmath

            For what it’s worth, Jump, I absolutely do think a subgun in 10mm would be a literal and figurative blast. Can’t wait to see the Kriss Vector running it.

          • Bill

            The FBI went there, and back. I think that their MP5 10s are still in inventory, but I haven’t seen one actually deployed at any of the trainings or competitions since they first came out.

          • TheNotoriousIUD

            Hey James Bond, im asking you for the second time where you got your ninja training.

          • Don Ward

            I’m honestly thinking he did do Sulsa Do Corp, since Jump mysteriously vanished after I brought it up.

          • TheNotoriousIUD

            Wtf is that?
            He better at least have been a Ranger. I mean no disrespect to any cops or infantrymen here but he does some high level sh-t talking and what I’ve found is the louder somebody talks the less experienced they are. I’ve know SEALs and Marines who never act like they’re better than others. Normally I wouldn’t care but I’m genuinely curious about where he got all this training.

          • Don Ward

            Google “Sulsa Do Corp” videos. I’d link but YouTube links are absolutely Haram to Disqus.

          • Kivaari

            Obnoxious! You really do think others are inferior to you. That’s hilarious. If it wasn’t for collectors and new shooters we wouldn’t see such high demand for guns and information about guns. I used guns professionally all my adult life. One thing I found is there are a few people like you everywhere. What I saw away from the police service were many people that really enjoyed guns and gun sports. When a new shooter showed up at my store asking questions, many wanted me to tell them what to buy. I couldn’t do that without finding out what do they intend to do with it. What makes them happy. If they asked an opinion I would tell them this is whit I like, but they may view things differently. Some listened and were very happy. Others went their way and found out they should have listened to me the first time around. Many people “want” another gun. Don’t say “need” in a gun store as it is akin to swearing in church.
            I have bought a few guns over the years that are the new and better mouse trap. We sometimes find magazine articles to be full of crap.
            But we need people to continually join the crowd as we old timers start dropping over dead.
            There are many fine folks out and about that will get a start looking at TFB, where the information is normally quite good. Especially from the regular staff. I they don’t like what you like, too bad for you.
            It sounds as if a Dale Carnagie course would help you.

          • Kivaari

            If this site has so many people you hold in disdain, you might be happier elsewhere. While a gun store owner I found the civilian gun collector-shooters to be the biggest force driving the desire for new and better firearms. Making a few hundred MP5-10mm for the FBI wont support the civilian market. If you notice firearms choices in big and small departments often fall into the lap of the gun nuts. That is why we see so many guns and calibers come and go. The demand for 10mm carbines and pistols is quite small. If it wasn’t for the civilian market the 10mm would have died an early death after the dumb choice the FBI made in picking the M1076. It lasted one year. Next the .40s came and went, though it remains popular many places. Now we see federal agencies returning to the 9mm, since it still makes sense after all these years.

          • G0rdon_Fr33man

            I don´t know if you have any statistics on European readers, but I can assure you the “hobbyist” perspective is much more on par on what we do over here. I assume you got quite a few Euro-readers.

            I say keep up what you are doing. If I could give you one thing I wanted more of, it would be IPSC-related news and segments.

          • Sadly, I am not the fella to cover IPSC. I know very little about it.

            Good suggestion, though, I’ll pass it along.

          • James R.

            Hahaha Nate on the roast! This was awesome.

          • Sgt. Stedenko

            It wouldn’t be a Jump if not Zero comment without a SIG rant.
            I truly believe someone at SIG beat up his daddy and violated his mommy.

          • Kivaari

            If it were not for hobby shooters, we would not have what we have. The professionals are a tiny market compared to we lowly hobbyists.
            Now that manufacturers are building SBRs life is easier. This is much better. Not only do you get the gun built correctly, you don’t have to search around to find a gun smith capable of shortening the M94 barrel without wrecking the gun. Uzi’s are simple whack and crown jobs.
            I love the AR-M4s since it is a simple pull and push the pins.

      • Sianmink


        At least $70 plastic H&K magazines don’t crack if you leave them loaded.

      • Mack

        In your opinion Alex, what do you not like about the EVO? I just went back and watched your run and gun with the EVO and got a sense you did like it but it wasn’t in the same category of the MP5. But here it sounds like you wouldn’t touch it at all. What changed or what don’t you like?

        Reason asking is, i’ve got a little play cash and was kicking around getting an EVO. I was thinking of MPX but after watching them shoot suppressed, i don’t think i want to go down that route.

      • KestrelBike

        That. Sucks. I assume the temperature wasn’t close to any extremes/fluctuations? (just sitting in a safe at room temperature?) Did you send a note to CZ? They seem to give a decent hoot towards their customers, I bet they’d like to know about this.

        If your mags were all from the same production batch, maybe it was a bad one? Really curious to know what CZ replied to anything you sent them.

      • Kivaari

        That would be a deal breaker. I stored my MP5mags at 25. Others loaded full up.We carried to 30 round magazine clamped together. I figured those 50 rounds combined with 45 rounds in my Glock 17, put the load to 95 rounds. Add another 5 rounds in a S&W Centennial was enough. Still we had aa .22 rifle in the truck and a 12 ga. M870 configured as a rubber baton gun.
        If I was working in towm that’s plenty. That is better with a 5 hot pump shotgun and 18 rounds of .38 Super Vel on my person .Cops have it much better today. They are clueless about having call boxes that are blocks from where you are. And that when you try to draw the attention with gun fire, no one but you and the safe crackers hear them, then the Safe men are alerted to you, but not the desk clerk. One reason for the long story is one of our new patrolman was out of patrol and engaged two robbers. He poked holes in them and they never showed up — for 14 years. Two bodies found in a hidden car. Well bones in rags. He had got ’em after all. The next day he b ought a 6 inch .44 Special and used it to his death in the 80s.

        • Bill

          I’m getting to the point of keeping a 20 round mag in the AR and 2 spares in my chest rig. They snag on less junk, and if I need more than 60 rifle rounds I’m doing something wrong. They even fit in pockets.

          Policy required that we carry 5 dimes for pay phones when I started. And a clean handkerchief for first aid.

          • Kivaari

            It was different world. I love the clean handkerchief first aid kit. Our people all became EMTs in the mid-70s. Now I don’t know what they train as far as medical. We had administrators that were very pro-EMS for all employees. Unlike LAPD where they recently admitted that 100% of the officers were not certified even in basic first aid. Amazing. I was able to save a couple of people by simply knowing how to clear an airway. In the days when we didn’t use latex gloves. I had to scoop teeth out of a mans mouth to clear an airway. He complained that I’d lost his teeth. Later he told others I saved his life. Simple stuff saves lives.

          • Bill

            We had Naloxone training last week, the nasal kind, like I want to get near some junkie’s snot launcher, so that I can revive them, then fight them, then have to babysit them in the bandaid bus, then beg the medics to give me a lift back to my car, with none of the satisfaction of poking them with a needle.

          • Kivaari

            We never had that. But, I retired 13+ years ago, and stuff has really changed. The state passed a law that Epi pens get out on the street, after a legislators kid died. The parents were afraid to sue the pen they had because it was “expired”. How dumb. The druggies I watched the EMTs use the Naloxone on were in no shape to fight. Babysitting crazy people at an ER or ambulance chews up time. We had to do it too often. Our mental health professionals would certify a patient was ok before we could take them to jail. When they were both crazy and sick we had to transport them 110 miles. At least we would get a good set of paramedics. Instead of riding along, they would just give the person a little more drugs. I’ve had to enlist the help of doctors to reverse the evaluations from the MHPs.

          • TheNotoriousIUD

            If you want or need an in depth look at the root cause of why you are getting that training you should check out this book.

          • Bill

            I look it up.

          • Kivaari

            I like the 20 round mags, and I don’t have a one. I normally had around 50 of them, most new in the issue wrapping. I had sold most of my gear between hospital trips. Now I have 30 round pmags and GI. I still load them to 25. Old habits sometimes die a slow death.

      • Kivaari

        I have never seen nor held the SIG. If it performs as well at it appears, and it is damn good looking, I wouldn’t mind having one. It’s too late in my life to buy another such firearm. I really like high quality pistol caliber SBRs. I had 2 HK 94s, Uzi Mod. A and a Mini-Uzi, 10 and 14 inch TC Contender and 2 Remington M870 -14 inch. Old age and economics have interrupted most of that fun. I finally did an M4 11.5, but chose the wrong upper. A Bushmaster A2 upper isn’t good if you want optics. SWAN ARMS makes a nice mount called the #39 A2, but they are not making them now, at least in the last 6 months. Nor do they ever answer emails about when they may be back in production. I guess they don’t care.

    • JumpIf NotZero

      SIG couldn’t have made worse decisions with the MPX, starting at the gas system. Looking at the mud performance of the MCX, you have to see the MPX could only be worse.

      I think it’s going to be a KSG situation unless SIG turns it around starting at the gas system.

      • Jump, you know I didn’t make this video and am not in it right?
        You will need to address James to get clarification regarding his choices in this video/list.

        • James R.

          Nah, he *could*, but he and I already had that pissing match and it was, as you could imagine, a huge waste of time.

          • JumpIf NotZero

            I love that I have no idea who you are 😉

          • James R.

            Sweet “I don’t know you” burn considering you are posting on my article for my video.

          • JumpIf NotZero

            I’m sorry, I wasn’t trying to “burn” you. I see you posted this video, and other than that have never seen anything from you before.

          • USMC03Vet

            He posts some hilarious firearms videos and isn’t afraid to rustle jimmies doing it. I’d say he’s doing his jerb well.

          • James R.

            That’s totally believable. Although you constituted probably 20% of the comments on my MPX video as well, I now realize that when you are pissing in this many campfires, it must be hard to keep track. Thanks for watching.

          • Sgt. Stedenko

            You cant mention SIG without a Jump rant.

      • Oh, you seem to have edited your post. Here it is though.

        • JumpIf NotZero

          Yea I was replying to the wrong one before, fixed it.

    • USMC03Vet

      I think the EVO scares boutique firearm owners because of it’s entry cost. They can’t go to forums and post pictures and get the same satisfaction they can with more expensive show and tell firearms. Also for some ridiculous reason having no handgaurds and instead metal which gets hot after minimal use is all the rage these days for non shooters.

      • JumpIf NotZero

        It’s nothing new that HK/SIG snobs look down on cheaper options. Esp when those guns make better beaters/tools.

  • pc299

    I have 3 out of 5 on your list and the only other gun I’d suggest adding (other than the Scorpion as I suggested in my other comment) is a SBR 10/22. They’re a ton of fun and cheap to shoot… well, they were when you could find .22lr

    • JumpIf NotZero

      Only issue I have with the 10/22 SBR is it’s receiver limited. I kicked around a Gemtech Mist (worst name for a barrel ever). That was it could go on a T3 straight-pull, 10/22, 96/22, maybe even that new KRISS AR in 22, etc. They apparently stopped porting the design but Gemtech will fix that for a small fee.

  • TheNotoriousIUD

    So if I already have a trust set up this new thing doesnt affect me, right?

    • JumpIf NotZero

      Really? I liked 2008 or so when the barrier to entry for NFA was a little higher but there were still good products on the market. Now any one can get into it without even a slight understanding of the rules.

      Yes, this doesn’t effect you until you go to file a stamp after July 13th 2016.

      • TheNotoriousIUD

        Settle down, Missy.
        I think you shattered the record for most pretentious/pedantic replies in one thread about an hour ago.

        • ostiariusalpha

          I’m never going to catch up. 😧

          • TheNotoriousIUD

            Hes on fire.
            The Lebron James of telling people how smart he is.

        • KestrelBike

          I’m pretty sure an AR15 PDW stock mugged/murdered his parents in front of his eyes when he was a child.

          • TheNotoriousIUD

            If he’s annoying here imagine what he’s like at the range.

          • Sgt. Stedenko

            Probably the one taking pictures of people without irons on their AR and posting it to Facebook.

        • Josef

          JumpIf NotZero + Esh325 + Lance, all in a giant jar. Shake. Although, I think I’ve grown attached to Lance; he’s got that, “retarded puppy that’s always by the coffee shop,” charm.

    • Cymond

      It will affect all transfers starting in July, regardless of whether you’re using a trust or not.
      Non-trusts will be able to skip the CLEO sign off.
      Trusts will require fingerprints and photographs.
      Lots of good info over on guntrustlawyer dot com (However, it is a bit over cautious, and tends to push people towards his company’s gun trusts.)

      • TheNotoriousIUD

        Thanks, ill be the first to admit im no firearms expert. Im sure 75% of the people here know way more than I do. I inherited several NFA items through a trust and am not always up on the current changes so thanks.
        I get the feeling that JINZ took Community College online SEAL classes.

  • May

    Can’t you get a 16″ barrel on an 870 and stay non-NFA by just having it rifled?

    • JumpIf NotZero

      Why bother for 2″ ?

      If you’re too poor or lazy to SBS, best to just one of those NFA-hack grips and a shotgun shipped with a pistol grip, replace the barrel with a 12″, and done. You get your kicks of a useless firearm without the stamp. If you think something is there, stamp it up and have a worthwhile firearm.

      • Kivaari

        That sounds quite illegal. A pistol gripped shotgun having a barrel under 18 inches is an NFA firearm. I would be an AOW if it were made under an SOT. That way it is a $5 FET to transfer it. Otherwise it is a $200 make and register gun. At least that is how the ATF tells it in the most often asked question and answer section on the site. Then individual states can get even more confining.

    • MR

      Have to keep it under half inch bore, or it’s a Destructive Device, generally. I you’re thinking that will allow you to classify it as a “rifle”, that is.

  • iksnilol

    I dunno, shorty ARs aren’t that attractive to me.

    I am thinking that if I want a short gun I also want a folding stock. Simply because small gun is handy and folding stock is handier.

    I will admit an SBR AR lower is probably one of the best things for the gun owner in America.

    • Sianmink

      I’ve given more than a few second looks to the Ace folding stock adapter, (And in combination with the Dolos barrel system, you’re looking at an AR that can be packed into a small messenger bag, albeit not quickly deployed) and even more to the ARAK-21 and Rock River LAR-PDS, since they’re both bufferless systems, I’d like to see more traditional folding stock options for them, since it seems like everything just mounts a stock to a now useless buffer tube attached to the folding mechanism.

      Sometimes I just want to say F’it and make myself a Krink.

      • iksnilol

        I dunno, ARAK-21 is a bit heavy and you can’t go with a shorter than 12.5 inch barrel on it.

        “F’it, let’s make a Krink” is an amazing idea.

    • Phil Hsueh

      Same here, to a degree. I personally like SBRs that are designed as SBRs from the start and adding a long(er) barrel to them makes them look funny or just plain old stupid. So for me, the shortest I’d go an AR would probably be 10.5″ or whatever the length of an actual M4’s barrel is, anything less than that doesn’t do anything for me. On the other hand, guns like UZIs, P90s, Krisses, etc. I would totally love to have as an SBR because all of these tend to look odd with a long barrel on them.

    • Kivaari

      That is the last NFA gun I did. Now, I still haven’t figured out why beyond that most basic desire called “want”. It’s pretty nice, even though it weighs more than my Bravo Company 16 inch light weight. Hey, it is short. I see little need in my pathway anymore. “Want” really drives me beyond wallet range.

      • iksnilol


        SBRs do usually weigh more, I think it is because they have heavier barrels on them or something.

        • Kivaari

          Under the handfguard is more like M4 Carbines.. It is said what t is
          called is new spec SOCOM on the M16 A2 HBAR.

    • Edeco

      Yep. Advantages/disadvantages of short guns aside, short AR’s seem like a square peg in a round hole to me. Better to have a piston and no buffer tube.

      • iksnilol

        Because it will in most cases have an 20 cm buffer tube sticking out.

        Assuming both have the same receiver length (about 25 cm) then the AR is going to be 45 cm vs 25 cm compared to an AK (both of course without barrels).

  • Sam Chen

    I’m glad to see the iconic MP5 make the list. However there are clone
    makers that offer a “tad cheaper” alternatives than trying to get the
    right parts and have a gunsmith slap it all together for you.
    Bretheran Arms to name one has their factory pistol for $1899, just need
    to purchase the stock and Form 1 it for SBR. Other makers include
    POF and MKE who have similar.

    • JumpIf NotZero

      Well… As to clones…

      The quality of the LSC receivers themselves are great, but they can still be folded wrong. The CA/SW parts are garbage. RIM made good parts until Adam at HKParts got the exclusive on them. The clone builders are either Dakota quality, or some level under MKE. I had a DJ Getz gun before he got out of doing them and it was bad. Best move I made was to sell at the height of the panic.

      Basically, the only deal in town now for the informed shopper is POF and MKE. You can do US made parts, and at a custom builder, and there is some skill out there… but it’s really better/faster/cheaper just get the imports and work with an issue if you have one.

      • TheSmellofNapalm

        Do you ever shut up

        • KestrelBike

          oh come on, that actually wasn’t a bad/mean comment at all. Regarding 922: I got 99 problems but giving a s*** about 922 ain’t one. F 922 hard, F 922 fast.

  • MR

    I think a form four on an AOW is $5, while a form one is still $200.

    • JumpIf NotZero

      True, but AOW’s are largely useless. It’s the worst “saving $195” ever.

      • MR

        And you’d still have to buy a pre-existing unit, or have an SOT do the work/paperwork, which would eat up the savings pretty quickly. If I’m understanding this correctly.

        • NA3006

          He’s incorrect in the video when he states you could manufacture an AOW from a preexisting weapon for $5. To qualify as an AOW the weapon can never have had a stock attached to it or it would not meet the definition of AOW. If you remove a stock and replace with a pistol grip and short barrel it is still considered a short barrel shotgun. To legally qualify as an AOW, the weapon would have to be built with a pistol grip and short barrel from a new stripped receiver (basically it’s a smoothbore pistol).

          • JumpIf NotZero

            Right. You have to start with a pistol grip only smoothbore

          • MR

            Or put a VFG on a normal pistol. Something I’d considered for paper punching before I heard about NFA regs.

          • Kivaari

            Nuts isn’t it.

          • James R.

            If you are right, I thank you for the correction. I’ve never owned an AOW, only SBR/S.

          • NA3006

            No problem, what is or isn’t an AOW can be a confusing topic. I’m confident if you research it you will arrive at the same conclusion though. In its simplest form an AOW can be made into an SBS or even a title 1 shotgun but a SBS or title 1 can never be made into an AOW.

          • Kivaari

            Making an AOW requires a form 1, the making and registration of a firearm. So converting a shotgun to a smooth bore pistol , like the Ithaca M37 Stakeout, costs $200 FET. Then it can be resold for the $5 FET. I thought I could do that a few years back and it stopped the idea. Now I can’t even remember what the project was. So many choices only limited by lack of money. It’s like having an AR pistol nd adding a stock. $200. ATF likes to limit how many can afford to make things like the smooth bore revolvers made to shoot custom bird shot loads. It showed up in a magazine article maybe 40 years ago. Even ATF agents read magazines. The author was visited by the revenuers. That law is so stupid. An N-frame revolver with a smooth bore firing birdshot with less performance than a .410 isn’t high on the list of criminal guns. OK, off the trail again. About 30 years ago a small town sheriff tried to stop a gun man. His .38 was loaded with CCI shot loads. He got into contact range of the bad guy, shoved his revolver into the guys gut and emptied it. The fat offender, wasn’t bothered much, and proceeded to kill the officer. The fame NYPD detective, Carillo, reported shooting men with a M37 loaded with 00 buck, and not seeming to phase the robber.

          • Kivaari

            Yep. I looked into doing one years ago and the ATF advised me of the Form 1 making fee. That took the fun out of it. I friend has 2 Ithaca M37 stakeouts in stock. I don’t like the Ithaca, so it is hard to develop a serious want for one. If I was going to do another 14 inch M870, I’d probably just have him order a new factory gun. Then due to injuries I couldn’t shoot it. But I sure like them.

          • Bill

            If it is an old school 37 without the disconnector, that are a hoot. And painful.

          • Kivaari

            I had one of the Deer Slayer – Police Special models. Very light weight without a recoil pad. The issue ammo was Federal 2 3/4 magnum 00 buck. It would bring tears to the eyes. I hated it. While at the state academy in ’71 they got in over 30 new M37s. The crazy thing is the magazine opening wouldn’t let a round to go into the tube, and therefor they were single shot. Why any gun maker would not inspect, test fire and ensure it was within spec continues to baffle me.
            In that time period many of the M37s were serving in Vietnam.
            Unlike the Remington M870 you could not disassemble the action without loosening the butt stock. Another reason to not buy a M37.

          • Kivaari

            They refer to those triggers as “Non-fire interrupter” triggers. Like older Winchester M97 and M12. Hold back on the trigger and keep working the slide. A friend blew a hole through the ID door room, into a locker holding a prisoners clothing. Oops. They used to keep a cardboard dog house in the main office, having dirt on a lot of men.

      • Bill

        Never breached much, huh?

        • Kivaari

          Going way back before rams and breaching charges were around I tried going through a door to serve a warrant. I found out that a sledge hammer didn’t do squat on an old house door. It took the element of surprise out of the no-knock service. Breaching rounds were so uncommon that homemade shells using steel filings and plaster were suggested. We have come a long way.

          • Bill

            We still use occasionally use buckshot and less-bright Deputies. I made a ram out of a length of iron pipe and a mushroom boat anchor.

  • MechanizedSwede

    As a citizen of sweden i am regulated to 45cm (i think thats about 17-18 inches of barrel length on my hunting rifles (semi or bolt-action alike). And theres no way around that. BUT if i wish to buy like an AR on sport-shooting license there is noo restriction on barrel lenghts! The only cost is like 25 bucks to apply for the license. Buddy of mine has a 10,5 inch AR, veery neat. Greetings from the country were bernie sanders would be considered right wing.

    • G0rdon_Fr33man

      But wether of not your AR-permit will be approved is at the whim of the daily mood of the bureocrat dealing with your application. 40 cm here in Norway btw. Must be annoying with all the 16-inch standard barrel lengths around.

      • MechanizedSwede

        I think they made the law with the 16inch barrels in mind, to avoid all those evil american guns gettin into the country. About ARs we have had a bit of luck since a ruiling court desicion ruled to favor of an IPSC shooter in the stockholm area, after that licenses came flying down in to many happy shooters mailboxes!

        • Kivaari

          You have my sympathy. It doesn’t make sense in anyway. Why a 16 inch tube is worse than an 18 inch tube evades me. Then I look at my 11.5″ barrel and wonder just what other than raising revenue for the ATF should be gun the feds are concerned with. After all, the shorter the barrel the less powerful. Since in the regulators mind a standard 16-18-20 inch barrel is so much more powerful than their grand fathers .30-30.

  • SP mclaughlin

    I’d consider myself fortunate to have either an EVO 3A1 or MPX, if I had one….

    • Marty Ewer

      The CZ Scorpion is where it’s at.

      • USMC03Vet

        Having functional handguards for sustained fire is also nice!

  • Bill

    I think you left out a factor: Value Added. While I love 14 inch shotguns, going from a 16 inch barred rifle to a 12 or 14 inch barrel just doesn’t have enough of a practical upside to make the headaches worthwhile, unless you just have to have one. I AVOID Class 3 guns after seeing another LEO get the bone when his g-ride was broken into and his issued 14 inch shotgun was stolen. I’ve got the option of drawing a MP5 at work, but it doesn’t make ballistic sense, and FA in domestic LE makes even less. And a FA rifle? Maybe when my beat includes Baghdad.

    • KestrelBike

      Curious, can you elaborate on some things of why/how/what the other LEO is in trouble for? First, is g-ride the local gov property patrol car that he was assigned/uses, or is it his personal property vehicle?

      Second, I understand why an LEO would get the bone when he forgets a weapon on top of the vehicle and drives off, losing it. But if his patrol car is broken into, is it really that much his fault if he was away from it while executing his official duties?

      Third, does it actually make a huge difference for him as an LEO that an NFA weapon, issued to him, was stolen, anymore than it would be if it was just his garden-variety dept.-issued glock 17 handgun? Is it basically a case of “Well someone now has to deal with the NFA paperwork, might as well make s*** roll back downhill onto the guy who originally had the weapon stolen from him”?

      Separate questions: By the mp5 not making ballistic sense, do you mean the size/weight of the mp5 (handgun-cartridge) as compared with if you just draw a AR15 (rifle-cartridge)?

      • Bill

        Sorry, it was his state-issue car which he was assigned to and supposed to drive to and from home and for work purposes. the gun was cased in the trunk, as per policy, because new locking mounts had not been procured, and the trunk could be opened from the interior of the car, as is the norm.

        The main “problem” was that it was a NFA weapon, and an agency not known for a whole lot of compassion for it’s troops. He did nothing wrong, but there was actual talk of requiring the guns to be stored inside the house, but nothing about reimbursement for safes, etc. One bonehead thought they could pass a policy mandating that agents had to have a garage. It was just an incredible bureaucratic hassle. The 14 inch shotguns handle extremely well particularly in tight hallways, mobile homes and so forth, but after that I personally decided it wasn’t worth the paperwork.

        By “ballistic sense” I meant that the M4 is more powerful while not being that much larger. The round will penetrate light armor, has greater range, and the typical loads don’t over penetrate (I’ve seen a number of agencies put ball ammo in subguns, primarily due to the economics of guys who lean on full auto.) Our MP5s have full stocks, so that gives up a lot of compactness. If I want to shoot somebody with a pistol bullet, I’ll shoot them with a pistol.

        I guess that the fun and novelty of full-auto has worn off for me, other than the fact that I refuse to manually unload magazines. I also plan on retiring and becoming a normal human soon, which means a tighter ammo supply and a lot of travel plans, and I don;t want to deal with those headaches either.

        • Kivaari

          The MP5A2 “fixed stock” is better in one way. Hand a guy an A3, and the first thing they want to do is shoot it from the hip.

    • Kivaari

      A select-fire MP5 doesn’t have to be set on “F”. In the middle of LA it is just as useful as it is in Podunk, Idaho. I find the only limiting factor for issuing any gun is the level of training. Personally I like the HK94 SBR in semi-auto. Back in the 80s I did an article on the HK 94 and Uzi Model A, as SBRs. In the 70s we had to provide almost all of ur guns. Eventually the department bought a shotgun from me and a Winchester M94 in .30-30 was donated to us. Having a semi-auto M4 is a great choice. Having a select-fire is a “greater choice” if it comes with training.

  • kyphe

    Why do I get the feeling this whole vid was motivated by the ongoing Mp5 MPX saga between Alex and James lol

    I am expecting Alex to put a top 5 truck gun vid up in the next two weeks lol

  • hydepark

    So since quality is a factor I can only assume that means the Sig MPX is off the list. I’ll watch the video on my lunch break later to confirm this.

  • thedonn007

    I had no idea that you could get your $200 back if you do not want the SBR anymore. How does this work?

    • Cymond

      I dint think it’s true, except maybe if you cancel your paperwork before it’s completed.
      However, it is true that you can deregister a SBR. I’ve always wondered if it has to go back to its original configuration, or if it has to go to bring a rifle. What if it was a factory SBR? Can it become either?

    • Kivaari

      That isn’t what I know to be true. If a form one or four has not moved in the ATF system to where the stamp has been paid for, and you change your mind or die, the money can be refunded. Once it moves beyond that it is money gone. If you die, an heir can have the gun transferred to them without an additional fee.

  • Some Dude

    I have $1,675 invested in an MKE MP5 pistol clone + $200 in a Form 1. It will come in at roughly just over 2k once I get the 922r parts. IMHO it is still better than the EVO or the questionable build quality of some of the Sig MPXs.

  • Dave

    What is a reasonable cost for a 12-in. or 14-in. Rem. 870 cylinder bore barrel with sights on top of the NFA costs these days?

  • Eric B.

    Well MY short barreled guns are a lot different.
    1. Benelli M1
    2. FN PS90

    The PS90 has greater range and 20 more magazine rounds than the MP5. I’ll take it any day over all other sub guns.
    The Benelli semi-auto (W/ 18″ barrel, full choke, long magazine and factory pistol grip stock) is my turkey gun and home defense weapon. I can shoot 5 shots before the first 12 gauge hull hits the ground. That’s fast.