Franklin Armory Binary trigger system

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We blogged about the two companies coming out with AR trigger systems that increase a rifles rate of fire on TFB, Military Arms Channel has an excellent review of the Franklin Armory system as well. But at SHOT we were able to get a real hands on look at the Franklin Armory booth.

Franklin Armory has two different systems and they are available in either a complete rifle or a complete lower. MSRP ranges from $734 (lower) to $2,699 (complete rifle). The first system is called the Release Firing System (RFS), and the second is the Binary Firing System. The difference between these two systems is that the RFS is simply that, a release trigger. Thus, instead of the disconnector releasing the hammer when the trigger is pressed, the hammer is only released, when the trigger is released. That means you pull all the way back on the trigger, then release, then it fires. If the trigger has been pulled, and you don’t want to take the shot for whatever reason, place the weapon on safe and the system will reset back to normal. This being said, there are three options in the selector, Safe, Single, and Release.

Now, imagine that same system but this time, when the trigger is pulled, and the system is set on “Binary”, the disconnector releases the hammer. The rifle is fired and as the bolt goes to the rear, cocking the hammer back into the disconnector. When the trigger is then released, the initial description comes into play. Pull the trigger again, and the process repeats itself, thus increasing the rate of fire. Both of these systems have duel disconnectors in them that allow this process to occur.

As Tim on Military Arms Channel mentioned, the biggest issue with the BFS is that a shooter can “outrun” the system. Because if you are going fast enough, it has the ability to drop the hammer while the bolt is in motion, and thus ride the bolt carrier home, and not striking the firing pin with enough force, for it to strike the primer. The reps at Franklin Armory explained this problem as well.

Right now ATF is on board with the product, but we all know how slippery their opinion and decision process can be sometimes. The company has also had some trouble with the California Department of Justice, in their ruling about selling the product there. To the point that Franklin Armory was handing out bumper stickers saying “California DOJ Lies!”.

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Miles V

Former Infantry Marine, and currently studying at Indiana University. I’ve written for Small Arms Review and Small Arms Defense Journal, and have had a teenie tiny photo that appeared in GQ. Specifically, I’m very interested in small arms history, development, and Military/LE usage within the Middle East, and Central Asia.

If you want to reach out, let me know about an error I’ve made, something I can add to the post, or just talk guns and how much Grunts love naps, hit me up at miles@tfb.tv


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  • BryanS

    Would rather buy a drop in trigger system, instead of a whole lower.

    • hghgf

      They have a drop in trigger for $400

      • JSmath

        Milling is required for install, the ‘real’ entry level is their $525 trigger with install (not including shipping to, maybe from Nevada).

        • hghgf

          No it doesn’t…at least not on all lowers…some

        • nova3930

          Yah price is the only barrier to me getting one to play with. Instant double taps could be interesting

        • JS

          Actually the $399 one dropped in fine my PSA lower with no fitting, machining, or shims. Only some guns require fitting due to differences in the trigger pocket on lowers. Thats why they offer that additional install service included or after the purchase.

          • Joseph Smith

            You may have just cost me $399!!!

  • DavidV

    Please God nobody write the ATF for “clarification”

    • thedonn007

      If the price comes down, I will buy at least one of these and put it in a beater lower. That way I will not worry too much about hand grinding whatever clearance is necessary.

    • Mcameron

      the ATF has already ruled binary triggers are not “full auto”

      • Joseph Smith

        Before they ruled they are full auto?

        • HSR47

          They don’t have a leg to stand on to support such a classification.

          “Fire on release” style triggers do not fit the statutory definition of “machinegun” and cannot be massaged into same.

          • DavidV

            Since when has logic and reason been a concern of theirs?

          • Joseph Smith

            Statue? Logic? Silly subject, they don’t need those things. They rule by fiat.

          • int19h

            Statutory definition of a machinegun is “designed to shoot, or can be
            readily restored to shoot, automatically more
            than one shot, without manual reloading, by a
            single function of the trigger”. All it takes is for them to say that pressing and releasing are a single function, and presto.

          • George

            They could do that, but taking back precedent without warning is arbitrary and capricious. ATF got … Taken to the woodshed in court over ammonium perchlorate rocket motors classification a few years ago.

            I suspect any change here would be slow and careful.

          • int19h

            It’s hit and miss, but as others have noted, they did it with braces.

            The problem is that ATF letters aren’t really “precedents” in the proper meaning of the term. They explain how they interpret the law, but they’re not really binding on them. In fact, a letter issued to one guy is not even binding on them wrt other people (even though, so far, they have been consistent in that regard).

            When it comes to changing their reversal in court, the fact that they held a different position before would be evidence against them, but if they can rationalize the new rule and explain why the old one was “wrong”, they can still get away with it. Given the complexity of NFA due to its vagueness and ambiguity, it’s always a possibility, and unfortunately courts aren’t particularly reliable.

            Either way, it’s up to everyone individually to consider the risks involved. It’s not like this is the first item that is on potentially shaky NFA grounds, nor will it be the last, yet many such things remain popular despite all that (e.g. braces, again). Until such time as the law is fixed to be clear, that’s what we have to deal with as gun owners.

          • Cymond

            “They explain how they interpret the law, but they’re not really binding on them. In fact, a letter issued to one guy is not even binding on them wrt other people”

            And despite this fact, many gun owners get angry at anyone who seeks a letter from the ATF.

          • Fool_Killer

            “taking back precedent without warning is arbitrary and capricious”

            I think you just defined the ATF…

          • MichaelZWilliamson

            They’d have to apply that to crank triggers and gatling guns, too.

          • Steve_7

            I think the more relevant question is what the letter from ATF says that they have already. I keep seeing letters that say things are unregulated firearm components, like the Slidefire stock. Well, an auto sear is an unregulated component, clearly not legal to install it.

      • Jack

        Just like they ruled it was OK to shoulder a Sig brace…… Until they decided it wasn’t.

        • Cymond

          Yeah, but this ruling has been decades.

          • Jack

            The ATF doesn’t change their mind?

          • Cymond

            They do, buy the longer it stands and the more they’ve stated the first opinion, the more they undermine their own (limited) credibility by changing.

          • De Facto

            Credibility is only a concern if you have accountability.

          • MichaelZWilliamson

            They do. In fact, a couple of years ago, they ruled that carbine conversion kits DO NOT magically become SBRs when you remove them from the pistol, as they had previously held for 25 odd years.

          • Steve_7

            That was the Supreme Court that ruled that, disagreeing with ATF. United States v. Thompson-Center Arms Co.

            ATF “rulings” are merely the opinion of the ATF Technology Branch, they have no force of law, courts enforce the law.

            There are lots of things they’ve said over the years that don’t hold up in court, e.g. the use of MG parts in a semi-automatic firearm.

          • MichaelZWilliamson

            And for 30 years ATF said that ONLY applied to the TC, not to 1911, Buckmark or Glock conversions. A couple of years back they changed their opinion.

          • Crusty Super

            Not quite 30 years. TC was 1992, the Justice Department letter was 2011.

          • Crusty Super

            The Supreme Court never ruled that. The Court only ruled that kits to convert pistols to rifle were legal. Putting back to pistol was never argued and it’s still technically against the law. The Justice Departments ruling to not enforce switching back and forth was entirely on their own probably to avoid further litigation or law changes.

          • Westwood

            didn’t the ATF recently rule practice chalk 40mm rounds are now prohibited items, and certain DIAS are now illegal, those were ok for decades and are now illegal.

          • MichaelZWilliamson

            DIAS were “Recently” ruled illegal in 1980 or so.

            Two separate operations fire two separate shots. To rule against this, they’d have to rule against gatling guns.

        • ozzallos .

          Just like they ruled m855 was not AP.

        • Mcameron

          if you read the way the law is written, it states “no more than 1 shot per operation of a trigger”…….

          well the pull is one operation…..and the release is a completely separate operation….

          it would be kind of hard for them to change their mind without completely rewritting the law.

          • ourichie

            It’s the ATF under Zero. All they gotta do is redefine an operation to being the press and release of a trigger. What do they care if it violates the law. No one is going to do a damned thing about it.

            so please god no one write the ATF.

          • Fool_Killer

            Not at all.
            They would just redefine “operation”.

          • Steve_7

            Actually the law is 18 USC 921(a)(28): “The term “semiautomatic
            rifle” means any repeating rifle which utilizes a portion of the energy
            of a firing cartridge to extract the fired cartridge case and chamber
            the next round, and which requires a separate pull of the trigger to
            fire each cartridge.”

            Separate _pull_ of the trigger.

          • Crusty Super

            That law is only to categorize weapons not make them. It just means it’s not quite a semiautomatic.

          • albaby2

            They could amend the definition without rewriting the law.

          • town22

            They control by enacting regulations bypassing the law.

          • Evil_Bonsai

            Yeah, but if they keep getting emails/letters about it, like the sig brace, they just might declare that one operation of a trigger is a sequence of pull/release.

            oops…didn’t see same reply below. Disregard.

      • Molon Labe!

        Link to that ruling…

  • Tyler McCommon

    An interesting toy. Just like my slide fire.

    • hghgf

      This actually better…you can be accurate with this, not precise but accurate

      • Evan

        Actually it’s far worse. A slide fire, like any reasonable gun design, stops firing when you release the trigger. This fires again. That’s an ND in my book. This is literally a trigger designed to ND. No sane person could possibly want this.

        • Edeco

          I barely believe in an accidental discharge that isn’t negligent. Only possible if one has pro actively controlled the situation to cover the possibility, like by being at a range and on target and maybe squeezing off too early in a breath cycle. That would be kind of accidental but not negligent. So I’m pretty stiff about holding the shooter accountable. But I don’t see why a second shot if desired and controlled, would necessarily be negligent.

          • Evan

            The fact here is that this is a device that allows the firing of a shot without human intervention. The second shot on this absurd binary system fires by default, it requires active intervention to not fire. That is, as I see it, an inherent negligent discharge. It isn’t the same as squeezing off the shot too early, that’s just bad shooting. We’ve all done that at least once. Not all negligent discharges are accidental (I knew this absolute mouthbreathing moron in the Marine Corps who deliberately ND’d a shotgun). This is negligent by design, even if the user intends to fire the second shot.

          • George

            You’re indicting release triggers in general here not just this one, and seem blatantly ignorant of a century’s worth of history here.

            You really didn’t know they’ve been on the market for decades already?

          • Edeco

            There is human intervention for the second shot, just a little different than some of us are used to. Forgive me, but your idea of inherent negligence is empty dogma, if it can apply to a shot fired deliberately, according to the 4 rules, and at a range or the like.

          • Evan

            I don’t consider releasing a trigger human intervention per se. Think of it like this: if the shooter was to somehow magically disappear after firing, in this case the weapon would fire again without the shooter. A weapon that can fire in such a manner is inherently negligent.

          • Edeco

            Do you consider cars inherently negligent? I mean, you see what I’m getting at, if the driver disappeared…

          • Mcameron

            if the shooter magically disappeared….there would be no one to pull the first shot….

            your whole argument revolves around the fact that your shooter is going to vanish between shot 1 and shot 2…..and thats just grasping at straws.

            hell, if you remove the operator from most things mid use they would be dangerous…….Cars, Airplanes, Cranes, boats………are those all negligently designed too?

          • Joe

            So what’s your opinion of an HK UMP 45 with a 2 rounds burst setting? You can’t single fire that SMG while in burst mode. Once you’re in burst mode and you pull the trigger you WILL get 2 rounds of .45 caliber flying downrange. There isn’t a shooter alive that can release the trigger quick enough to single fire that gun on burst mode. (unless you only have 1 round loaded 🙂

          • JS

            Magically disappear? Whatever.
            1. You haven’t actually used one of these triggers so you have NO real experience with them.
            2. You don’t like the idea and in your opinion it is unsafe. We get it, you don’t have to buy one.
            3. There are already release triggers, assisted reset triggers, hair triggers ( < 1lb), electronic triggers, mouth triggers, progressive full auto triggers, burst triggers, double triggers, etc. I'm sure that there are people that think one or more of those are unsafe.
            4. Some people think slidefire and bumpfire are unsafe.
            5. This type of pull release trigger already existed for the Mini-14 and not many have heard of it. If it was as unsafe as you claim there woukd be all kinds of stories.

            The only "safe" gun is pointed in safe direction, finger out of the trigger guard, bolt open, chamber empty, and magazine removed.

        • Joe

          Negative ghost rider, a negligent discharge is when you understand the big 4 rules and break them due to negligence. If I pull and release the trigger I know I’m getting 2 rounds not just 1, when the selector is on binary. If I pull the trigger, then decide to not shoot the next round ,I can do 1 of 3 things.

          1. Place the selector on Semi while applying pressure to the trigger.
          2. Place the selector on Safe while applying pressure to the trigger.
          3. Remove the magazine, cycle the charging handle, and check the chamber, all while applying pressure to the trigger.

          It requires a slightly higher degree of training. It is not an unsafe design.

        • Mcameron

          a ND is when you fire when you dont intend to…….the binary trigger only fires when you intend to break a shot……if you dont want your binary trigger to fire…..dont pull the trigger

  • allannon

    The switchable release trigger is interesting. The “binary” trigger, like the Tac Con 3MR, just seems gimmicky to me.

    I kinda want one…partially because I’d like to play with a release trigger, but mostly so I can switch it on the sly to release mode when I let people use my AR, just to see what they do.

    • Rick5555

      Please read Evan’s comments above. He’s talking about people like you. Not a bright moving unexpectedly switching the lever to “release mode” without the shooter being aware. That’s an accident waiting to occur. Possibly hurting someone. If you handed me your AR in that mode. And I was unaware. I would revert to my training and do a tap/rack. It’s possible a person as they’re removing their support hand. They begin releasing their trigger press. Which means the person does NOT have full control of the rifle (AR). And a round being discharged in a direction, the shooter didn’t intend to shot. When you do these sort of things…messing around with a loaded firearm…of any type. You’re just giving ammunition (no pun intended) to the Gun Control Advocacy Groups. It’s apparent, safety is not paramount when you going shooting.

      • allannon

        I can only assume that since you apparently wouldn’t follow basic safety rules, namely keeping the firearm pointed in a safe direction when in any loaded condition, you’re of a lower quality of sorts than those with whom I associate.

        But since I go shooting with people who react in a conscientious manner rather than pointing firearms in random directions, the danger would be no higher than normally associated with the sport.

    • JS

      You’re an idiot if you want to “switch it on the sly to release mode when I let people use my AR, just to see what they do.”

      • allannon

        Really, dude? An ad hominem?

        • JS

          Yes. Same to anyone who is unsafe and dangerous which gives the rest of us responsible gun owners a bad name.

          Here little kids… shoot my .500 S&W. One handed. No it doesn’t kick and you don’t need eye or hearing protection. “Just to see what they do.”

          • allannon

            So you’ve moved from a weak argument, to ad hominem, to hyperbole and a straw man.

            And despite all of this, you’re still the one that’s admitted they don’t follow the first rule of firearm safety.

          • JS

            You realize there were two different people critizing your dangerous and unwise idea “switch it on the sly to release mode when I let people use my AR, just to see what they do.”

          • allannon

            Nope. Looked like a continuation of the lameass argument, which depends on shooters ignoring the most basic safety rule.

            However, since you actually started with an ad hom and went up to hyperbole and a straw man, the basic rebuttal still stands.

          • JS

            Lameass argument meaning thinking it’s cool to surprise your friends while handling weapons and creating a dangerous situation, I agree.

            Dangerously surprising others while shooting is right up there with drinking while shooting and you really can’t defend it.

            You should fucus more on learning (and then teaching) good gun safety practices than focusing grammar elements which you don’t seem to fully comprehend.

          • allannon

            Your objections are predicated on failing to follow basic safety precautions: don’t point the gun where you don’t want a bullet to go, always treat the gun like it’s ready to go off. They’d release the trigger, be surprised, everyone would have a quick laugh.

            So, the surprise would be no more dangerous than normal for the sport.

            And I do understand the “grammar elements” you’re objecting to, which is why I used it. I understand them as thoroughly as I do safety, neither of which you seem to have a strong grasp on.

            It’s “focus”, and “grammatical elements”, by the way. You should tend to your own garden–both in firearm safety and grammatical lectures–before complaining about someone else’.

          • JS

            “On the sly”
            Learn the hard way that firearms are not toys. No one will be having a quick laugh when someone gets hurt. You give the rest of us a bad name.

          • allannon

            No-one will get hurt; your presumption that they will notwithstanding.

            Your inability or unwillingness to form a reasonable argument and apparent disregard for following the basic behaviors that would prevent injury are far more dangerous than my proposed prank.

          • JS

            Dude, really? Are you still being a hypocrite espousing abt gun safety as a defense for playing pranks with firearms?

            And your defense doesn’t even apply to me. I always review firearm safety rules at least twice with new people that are unfamiliar with weapons before shooting. All guns are always pointed in a safe direction, handed to the person unloaded, bolt back, mag out, and on safe.

            Have a nice day.

          • Stephen Shallberg

            You are wrong, it is unsafe. How unsafe depends on where you choose to play your prank and on whom. What makes you think your shooter will immediately release the trigger?
            At an indoor range this could cause a discharge above the target, maybe dangerously high, depending on muzzle rise and the shooters personal idiosyncrasies. At an outdoor range, like my gun club for instance, the protective berms are about ten feet high. It is completely plausible that a shot could be inadvertently fired over those berms as a result of your ha-ha prank. When a bullet is fired in an unintended direction, where one is not certain what lies in its path, that is by definition a violation of gun safety.

          • allannon

            Because I know the people I shoot with, and wouldn’t do that with someone that wouldn’t react in a safe manner.

            I wouldn’t be at the range with someone like JS, who apparently is experienced but disdains basic safety practices. I probably wouldn’t let a new shooter use such a trigger at all as they might switch past regular operation inadvertently.

            I would do it to, say, relatives who I can count on not to be an idiot and to keep the firearm faced downrange.

          • Stephen Shallberg

            Yes, that would make it less unsafe, but I still think it’s a bad idea. Maybe if you were in the middle of the Sahara…

          • allannon

            Given the type of behavior I’ve seen from “trained” people who use phrases like “tap and rack”, this is likely to be by a large margin the least dangerous action at a range. :p

          • Stephen Shallberg

            Good point. I recoil at the stuff I see at our local indoor range. In fact, that’s the main reason I joined the gun club.

          • allannon

            Unfortunately the nearest club to me (within a couple hours) went full retard…er, tactical. It’s also $700/yr, and apparently plus use fees. The facilities are nice (except they don’t have shooting benches anymore), but that’s probably more just in the annual fee than I spend at my preferred range.

            The range I usually go to is mostly people that just want to have fun shooting. There’s odd hijinks like unwarned-of magnums in shotguns or light triggers (not hair), but since everyone follows basic handling practices no bullet-related injuries in the 12-13 years I’ve been going there regularly.

        • iksnilol

          Well, you want to endanger and possibly kill people for fun.

          You’re just like the people handing someone a .44 mag and telling it is a .44 special. Then when the gun bumpfires and somebody dies you twiddle your thumbs and say “I didn’t mean to, honest”.

  • Evan

    Why on earth would anyone want this? It’s unnecessary and potentially dangerous. It’s significantly LESS safe then full auto, because full auto stops firing when you release the trigger. This is literally a device designed to ND. I am against any and all gun bans, but this should not be allowed to come to market for basic consumer safety reasons. I don’t care if it helps with double taps; learn to shoot instead of installing this ridiculous device,

    • hghgf

      If you forget then that’s your problem..if you have the mental capability to remember what the setting is on then you don’t need it.

      • Evan

        No. This is unsafe by design. You shouldn’t have to unlearn basic safety rules for the sake of a silly toy. This trigger serves no actual purpose and is an accident waiting to happen. Anyone who would buy one of these is a fool, and any retailer selling them is irresponsible.

        • George

          It’s only a tiny bit more dangerous than a basic release trigger, and arguably not moreso than any full auto weapon.

          • Mcameron

            ide argue its actually safer than a full auto trigger

        • Sianmink

          It’s no different in that respect from any of thousands of release shotgun triggers out on the market right now, that have been in common use for a century.

          • Edeco

            Good point, I’ve heard of those but had forgotten.

          • Sianmink

            I’ve got hundreds of hours of shotgun competition.

            MANY of the older shooters who have developed a flinch use the release trigger as a workaround.

        • Mcameron

          what basic safety rule tells you its alright to point a gun at someone when you havent fully released the trigger?

        • JS

          We should generally ignore opinions formed by people that haven’t actually tried or used something, who then pass an unsafe or worthless judgement, and suggest it should be banned for everyone. Not to mention calling people names. You sound like the moms demand action people. Let’s ban everything because everything is dangerous.

        • UVB76

          Evan – no once is forcing you to purchase one. To be honest – trigger systems on small arms are somewhat archaic. You are going to see firing systems being developed that will re-write “safety rules.” Technology advances and you develop those safety rules for said technology – direct to that particular application. The one size all won’t fit modern weapon systems nor tactics (individual or squad/company/etc).

          I bet you have some real hate for Tracking Point? If you want to see where small arms are heading – track the developments in combat aircraft systems. It eventually bleeds down to the combatant level (holographic sights, heads-up, tracking, fire and forget, etc).

        • Laserbait

          Your ignorance appalls me.

          Once again, you’re condemning a product because you fail to grasp the idea, and/or have no functional knowledge of it.

          • JumpIf NotZero

            The irony is strong here.

          • Laserbait

            I know! He did the same thing on the Keymod thread too…

    • George

      The article is clear – switch to safe and it’s safe and reset.

      Don’t buy one if you can’t train yourself to hold back and safe it if you want to ceasefire on binary.

      Don’t flip it to binary if you’re concerned you’ll double fire when you might only shoot once and a double is not OK. But any full auto weapon is that way anyways. You only have to pull a bit harder to double or triple or quad on FA, if you ever started with enough trigger control to avoid larger bursts anyways.

      • Evan

        This is inherently different from automatic fire. Automatic fire you press the trigger, and it fires until you run out of ammo or release the trigger. You have to be actively pressing the trigger for the weapon to fire. This is different. With this contraption, you have to take action for the weapon NOT to fire; the default setting is that it will fire on the release (yes, I understand there’s a selector switch). Do you see the inherent difference? Also, were we not all taught not to trust our lives or the lives of others to a mechanical safety? With this trigger, trusting lives to a mechanical safety is best case scenario. And if you think there’s going to be an issue, you wouldn’t fire in the first place, the problem here is an unexpected/unforseen safety issue arising at an inopportune time.

        • George

          When you set it to auto it’s not certain but highly likely to fire multiple rounds on any trigger pull, even if you have really good trigger control. Though some with training can reliably single some guns on FA they cannot assume so any any tactical or other situation they left it on FA and that caused an accident would be operator error.

          Same here. You have to assume that you are firing 2 rounds with the cycle if you switch to binary. If you are somewhere/sometime that two is inappropriate leave it on semi. Even though you can with training abort at one by not releasing and safing.

          The detail is different than FA but it’s the same fundamental situation. Don’t use the switch if two is bad in the situation. Don’t buy it if you can’t handle that. There are certainly people for whom FA is dangerous.

          • Evan

            Again, there is an inherent difference between a gun that fires multiple rounds through deliberate human intervention, and a gun that fires a second round on the release. This difference should be obvious. To wit: fully automatic fire STOPS when you release the trigger.

          • George

            No. The automatic fire STARTS when you pull the trigger.

            With this, on binary, you either single (resist releasing, and have ability to safe it) or double.

            It is inherently safer than a two-shot burst because you CAN abort. It’s no worse than FA where upon deciding to stop you will fire 0-many more rounds before your finger is off the trigger.

            With FA you really have to pre-commit to just fire a short 2-3 burst. You can’t make decisions in 50 ms.

            Have you fired FA weapons?

          • Rick5555

            Please Read Alannon comment below. He just made your “argument” for you. Essentially, he said, he would like to switch the fire control lever over to “Release Mode” on the sly. And let whomever is shooting with him, shoot the firearm, without being aware the AR is in Release Mode. And see the shooters response/reaction. I agree this fire control unit is an accident waiting to happen. Because we have enough people out with firearms. who don’t take safety seriously. And treat firearms like it’s a toy or some video game. It’s always fun and games with these types of people. Until someone gets hurt or killed. Then it was a harmless accident to them. Please see his comments. And you’ll simply say to yourself….See, just a matter of time. probably sooner than later.

          • George

            Handing a friend a release trigger trap / skeet shotgun already accomplishes this.

            Any asshat who does this is setting themselves up for civil and criminal liability if anyone gets hurt.

            But it’s no dumber, again, than handing someone a select fire rifle slyly set to Full Auto. Seen that done, too. Not funny.

          • Evan

            I’m not at all familiar with skeet or trap shooting. I have never done either. I can’t speak to what works for skeet or trap.

          • Evan

            You’re accidentally right here. With automatic weapons, you commit to at least a short burst. With this thing, you fire a single shot, then when you release the trigger, it fires a second shot. Say you fire, then, before you have released the trigger, conditions downrange become unsafe. Instead of releasing the trigger and stepping back, your release fires another shot. Is this a scenario that will happen routinely? Of course not. It still isn’t safe, even with the system that requires you to rely on a mechanical safety.

            I was a rifleman in the Marine Corps. I am very familiar with automatic weapons, including three round bursts on the M16A4. I don’t think this is a similar system.

          • elmer

            Wrong Evan. With this thing you commit to two shots when deciding to shoot, just like you commit to a short burst on FA (like you stated above). You do have the option to stop the second shot if you so choose. If you can’t handle it then don’t buy one.

          • Evan

            You’re wrong. Full auto is bangbang, as fast as the action can cycle. This is bangdelaybang, with the second shot uncontrolled. That second shot, which is inherently uncontrolled and a deliberate ND, is an issue.

        • Weaver

          All I’m seeing here is nothing but a training issue. Who ever buys the system will need to take time to learn how to use it. And with practice can be very good at it.

          • Sid

            Evan has a point. You can point out it’s a training issue.. but there will always be a person (whether familiar with firearms or not) who has never fired a binary system, ie trying out someone’s rifle with the binary system.

            That person fires, stops due to a issue down range (ie person down there) and that time delay of releasing the trigger is where issues may occur because they were caught up with the situation and forgot they are using a binary system.

            Though risks might be lower, but it’s still a higher chance of an issue than a full auto/burst.

            I do fine the idea intersting, but wondering how clean the trigger pull is on that thing. I love my Geisseles..

    • JS

      Then I’m glad you decided it’s not safe for you and not to buy one for yourself, but please stop suggesting it shouldn’t be allowed or banned for others. I actually have this trigger and its not unsafe at all. Just think of it as a two round burst and your fine.

      • stirfry

        Suppressing common sense discussion of safety regulation suggestions is irresponsible.

        • FightFireJay

          Saying it “continues to fire after you release” is itself incorrect and a “dog whistle” for attention. It fires ON the release, not after.

          Further, if a government organization lies or misrepresents itself to you as a business, do you suggest we all fall inline and accept it?

        • Rick

          while I think I agree on your assessment of the trigger system, the CA DOJ lying is not hysteria. Sad it takes something somewhat silly to get people to realize this.

        • JS

          The term “common sense” is over used and rarely applied accurately.

      • Evan

        The thing is, it’s not two round burst. That wouldn’t be problematic, that’s firing two shots on every trigger pull. The fact that this fires one shot on the pull, then a second on the release is the issue. It’s an accident waiting to happen.

        • JS

          I really wish some of the commenters saying it’s dangerous and that we should ban it would watch the videos and get some actual experience with it before acting like self appointed safety experts for all of us.

          It’s not like the gun fires on release a second later, it’s faster than a double tap. Like anything else, you train to expect the 2nd round. Otherwise you put it in semi. That’s why having it selectable in the 3rd position is there, you consciously put it in that mode.

          Anyways, I’m done arguing with people who don’t have any experience with the trigger. Shot mine today and didn’t feel dangerous at all. Burned through a bunch of ammo and had lots of fun.

        • MichaelZWilliamson

          Release triggers have existed on shotguns for at least 40 years. I await a listing of the accidents caused by them.

    • mosinman

      if you’re following the basic firearms rules you should be ok with this trigger type

    • JumpIf NotZero

      You are absolutely correct Ethan, this is a bad idea and inherently unsafe.

      It’s good that before release you “could” abort the release fire by switching to safe… But I suspect no one here has actually tried to do that on a 180 degree to 90 or 0 degree throw on an ar. It would take monkey fingers or a an extra joint in thumb and wrist.

      The people here mocking you or making arguments that this is somehow OK – aren’t shooters. They’re gun collectors and plinkers and think this is “like full auto”. They’re clowns, I have no issue saying this.

      Don’t sweat it.

      • Cymond

        “take monkey fingers or a an extra joint in thumb and wrist”
        Or a second hand.
        https://youtu.be/TNKpVaKsUic

        • JumpIf NotZero

          “Using his support hand”

          EXACTLY. This is for clowns.

          In order to be safe, you need to take your two handed weapon, release one hand, while holding the trigger down and the entire gun with your firing hand, switch the safety then get your support hand back.

          Do that while moving. Do it from a high port position. Do it from inside a vehicle. Clown product for plinkers.

          Thanks for proving my point with an illustration.

          There is a reason this is coming from Franklin Armory, makers of cheap Chinese knockoff reloading equipment – and not Geiselle.

          • George

            You know that august firearms SHOOTING community members argue you should leave your guns on safe when moving like that, as they have seen far too many operators (and I mean SEAL team members, not civilian goofs) fall down and grab the trigger while falling instinctively and ND?

            Don’t leave it on binary if two shots are unsafe. Don’t leave it on fire if no shot is safe.

          • Laserbait

            Ummm, Frankford Arsenal is the cheap chineese knockoff company.

            I don’t see what’s so difficult about it. The AR is so light, holding (and shooting) isn’t hard to do with just the strong hand. Mag changes are done all the time with just the strong hand holding the rifle. Seems easy enough to me.

          • Mcameron

            so you can fire an AR pistol 1 handed…..but apparently holding an ar Rifle 1 handed is too much to ask for?

            sounds like you need to hit the gym if thats the case…….

            god, how do you manage to reload your rifle with only 2 hands?!?!

          • Franklinarmory

            Franklin Armory doesn’t make reloading equipment or sell anything not made in America.

      • iksnilol

        I thought the advantage of the AR safety was that you could manipulate it with your thumb without removing your hands from the rifle?

        • JumpIf NotZero

          It is. But this would’ve extremely difficult while ALSO holding the trigger down, esp from the 180degree position.

          • iksnilol

            I have a hard time visualizing how it would be a problem. I mean, you work your thumb independent from your index finger.

          • mosinman

            i tried it with my AR with a stock trigger and it cannot be done, but not because my thumb couldn’t push the safety on to the safe setting

          • Joe

            Or drop the mag and rack the charging handle all while pressing the trigger to the rear.

          • JumpIf NotZero

            OR use the correct manual or arms for the weapon with gimmicks and nonsense added to it all so that you can feel like a cool kid with a definitely-not-anything-like-full-auto

          • Joe

            Having been issued multiple burst and FA weapons whilst on active duty, I belive this is an extremely close facsimile to the rear deal.

          • JumpIf NotZero

            Some claim considering it’s not even close, and you very likely haven’t shot this fire in release setup and are just taking out your rear.

          • Joe

            I have shot multiple burst firearms.
            I have shot multiple full auto firearms.
            I have shot hundreds of makes of semi autos.
            I have shot release trigger firearms.
            I have shot in anger at Taliban in combat.
            I know how difficult it is to accurately fire a certain number of rounds in a full auto while under stress.
            Die mother $£#$&! Die. 6-8 rounds down range.
            I don’t work for Franklin.
            I haven’t shot one I don’t get free T&E.
            I will shoot one, and let you know how it works for me.

          • JumpIf NotZero

            So just allow me to recap a momnet…

            – There is no possible way to get a consistent or remotely-anything-like burst or auto cyclic rate

            – It’s possible and likely to overrun the trigger/carrier timing

            – You haven’t shot this system

            – Yet… You have decided this is “comparable”

            Yep…. Makes sense.

          • Evan

            Having used burst/full auto weapons in the Corps myself, I’m convinced of quite the opposite. I don’t know about you, but every time I used my rifle on burst, the third round had left the barrel by the time I released the trigger.

      • Joe

        How is this different than two round burst?

        • JumpIf NotZero

          How in ANY fashion is the “like” two round burst other than two rounds are shot?

          This doesn’t give you a good cyclic rate, it gives to you some rate under ideal OR you overrun it.

          99% of people here have no idea how press and release quickly will just overrun it.

          It’s bad idea, made into a stupid product, targeted at clueless people…. OF COURSE it’s popular on TFB.

      • Evan

        Oh, I know I’m right. Some people just need to believe in the next new best thing and refuse to accept any criticism of it. Being in a minority, even a minority of one, does not necessarily make you wrong.

        There’s also the fact that this gadget is essentially intended to replace training, a bad idea in and of itself, but I’m not going to open those floodgates.

        • JumpIf NotZero

          Being the minority of TFB means you’re likely right. This site has gotten to be so bad.

          Nick87 and CommonSense are the only two people that it’s obvious have actual training. Most other people here are children, clueless, or have an overinflated sense of their knowledge because of something inconsequential like “I was in the military”… It’s Krugler-Dupling effect in full force every day here.

          As to why this site spherically draws that crowd? I have no idea.

          • You mean “The Dunning-Kruger Effect”?

          • JumpIf NotZero

            Yea. iphone has other ideas.

      • George

        I don’t have one of these but I have experience with three position selectors.

        Without an actual binary trigger in my hand I don’t know, but using my right hand I can flip a FA selector from 180 to 90 with one thumb motion with finger on the trigger, reposition thumb so the joint’s under the end of the selector and flip it to safe in a second motion.

        Your hands may be larger or smaller than mine; I’m average hands for size but almost 6′ 5″. I’m not going to say everyone can do it, and I haven’t tried one of these yet, but I will be surprised it it’s much harder to work with than a FA trigger and selector.

    • Joe

      Again, how is this different than two round burst?

    • Denis

      Would this be less safe than say a three round burst? The trigger is more so a gimmick, but it does seem to have a functional purpose, the 5.56 was designed to be a flat shooting low recoil round and controllable on full auto. Unlike the M14. Yes this isn’t full auto but in a self defense situation, I would find this very useful with proper training.

    • Goody

      You don’t get to tell me what I can and can’t do safely. You don’t get to tell me what I need – enough people are doing that already, the end result is boiling existence down to a labor camp lifestyle. Don’t do that.

      • Evan

        Right, I don’t particularly care what you can and can’t do, I’m saying that the ND trigger in question is inherently unsafe, like candy made of lead or something. And seeing as this device is essentially intended only as a replacement for proper training, and serves no actual purpose, I can confidently say that nobody needs it. You wanna shoot full auto, instead of wasting $500 on this monstrosity, spend that money towards political candidates who are amenable to repealing the Hughes amendment. If you have a problem with the authoritarian current in politics these days, work to change it instead of wasting money on some poor substitute for freedom. And speaking of which, why would you buy something like this that would actually give gun control nuts a talking point that would probably actually resonate with people?

        • MichaelZWilliamson

          It’s not ND, since it is designed to do exactly what it describes. You may as well describe a Glock as “ND” because someone who relies on a manual safety and keeps their finger on the trigger might do something stupid.

          No one should use any gun without familiarization or training.

          But, since you are afraid of it, you should definitely not buy one, and you’ll never have a problem.

          As to your other “point,” gun control nuts want to ban guns. Unless and until you throw your guns into a shredder or weld them into an anti-gun sculpture, they have talking points.

        • Goody

          Stop thinking of it as an ND trigger, start thinking about it as a double tap trigger and we’ll be ok.

  • Edeco

    Crud, still outrun-able. That kills it for me.

    • Sianmink

      I wonder how hard it would be to have a secondary sear that’s released by the bolt carrier that would delay the second hammer until you’re fully back in battery.

      • Cymond

        That’s getting closer to something the ATF would smack down.
        Fwiw, I’ve read that there are ways to increase the cyclic rate, like lighter weight bolt carriers.

        • Sianmink

          I don’t see how mechanically queuing a shot would be any cause for alarm, but then this is the ATF.

          • Cymond

            There are electronic paintball triggers (for certain categories that prohibit true full-auto) that queue multiple shots and then release them all at once when a certain signal is given. For the purposes of those games, it is not considered full-auto because the trigger is still pulled for each shot fired (albeit the firing is delayed).

            The ATF has already ruled against such a system for firearms.

          • Sianmink

            I think that’s mostly because electronic triggers are pretty easily hackable. A mechanical system that queues a single shot though, it might have room for consideration.

        • Edeco

          Hmmm, that’s a thought, just get it to where the time-window to outrun is negligible.

        • RSG

          Or buffer system

      • Edeco

        Yeah really, I was thinking if there were just some way to mechanically keep the trigger back until cycling is complete.

        Be like playing ATF-roulette though, might be the part that sets them off. Not that that would be the end of the world, I think the SIG-brace drama is hilarious and ultimately good for the cause, but darkens my hopes of actually getting to enjoy a non-outrun-able binary trigger.

  • lowell houser

    I love this idea. It’s far more controllable than slidefire because you aren’t pushing forward on the gun and as long as you use it like a burst setting it would be fine. I just wish they could put it out as a trigger pack rather than needing to sell a whole lower with it.

    • JS

      It is available as a trigger pack by two different companies – Franklin Armory BFS $400 shipping now and Fostech ECHO $479 out in April/May.

      • JumpIf NotZero

        I like that despite the $400-480 price tag, the cost is only the second biggest joke about this product 😀

        • JS

          I like this product and I already own one.

  • Martin Grønsdal

    Isn’t this a simple one-trigger-pull-two-shots, hence fully automatic?

    • George

      No. For technical reasons.

      Release triggers – pull nothing, let go fires – are old tech and used in some skeet and trap guns. Not common but well studied.

      ATF elsewhere had ruled that pulling and releasing were two separate actions, not one. Full auto is more than one shot per action.

      The ruling included earlier Mini-14 conversions to similar pull-fire-release-fire status and a second ruling approved an earlier AR-15 trigger that fired on pull and on release, that seems to have had very limited sales.

      • Martin Grønsdal

        I may misunderstand the concept: is this; pull trigger – bang, release trigger – bang?

        • AMX

          Exactly. And because there’s a previous decision that those are two separate operations, it’s only one shot for each operation of the trigger, and therefore not full auto.

          It’s absurd, but what else do you expect from the ATF?

          Now, if that was a ring trigger, and you had to push it forward intentionally, that’d be a different matter…

      • JS

        I think the previous versions of this trigger had limited interest because they were dedicated SAFE/PAIR only and not selecatable to SAFE/SEMI/PAIR. If the gun was in dedicated two round burst mode all of the time it would be a limited use range toy.

        • Cymond

          The ‘Liberator’ pistol is limited to SAFE/PAIR and is only sold as a complete gun for $2400. They don’t sell just lowers or trigger groups.
          http://www.checkmateguns.com

      • Sianmink

        There are also double barrel guns with pull-release triggers. 2 shots with one ‘cycle’ of the trigger. Been around almost literally forever.

      • Martin Grønsdal

        Does ATF rule according to whether the birds flew east or west past their office window?

  • plingr2

    This trigger will be nice in some weapon with dynamic bolt, or something with hight cycling rate. I see some videos and shooters have problems with droping hammer in ar 15.

  • ExMachina1

    If the trigger pull were reported to be better I might buy one. And it it were cheaper, I might buy one in spite of the trigger pull.

  • Blake

    Or you can just get an SKS & let the firing ping get good & dirty (or just never clean all the Cosmoline off it in the first place).

  • Rick

    Im a California resident, taxpayer and gun owner. I just want the bumper sticker. This is the state thats tried to make the 10/22 an “assault rifle” and banned the Taurus Judge as a “short barrelled shotgun”.

    • KestrelBike

      Tried, they basically did except moonbeam vetoed it in a flash of sanity.

    • Cymond

      I lived there for 3.5 years, I feel your pain.

      FWIW, AOWs are legal in CA. If you really want, you could have a Judge bore machined smooth and registered as an AOW.
      Or, you know, just get a normal AOW shorty.

  • Dylan

    Why can’t these be shipped to Oregon? I asked their customer support why and they didn’t explain. If bump-fire stock are legal here, then why not this?

  • matty

    Lol @ the gospel type, TFB regulars losing their crap over this product…

    *gets popcorn*

    • JumpIf NotZero

      Typical for TFB regulars to go apesh!t for something no one with any amount of real training would ever go for.

      • Mcameron

        really?……and how much training do you have?

        • JD

          You must be new to these threads if you’re unfamiliar with all the times he’s shared that info without anyone asking Nothing otherwise to prove it though. I think we just have to take, “faceless internet guy’s,” word for it.

        • JumpIf NotZero

          More than your average police or mil, less than pmcs.

      • mosinman

        not everything needs to be for super serious purposes

        • JumpIf NotZero

          It doesn’t need to be dangerous garbage either.

          • mosinman

            i don’t see this as dangerous though. if you’re not waving the rifle around and giving the gun to people who don’t know how it works i have a hard time imagining it being dangerous

      • Joe

        In your humble opinion jump if not zero what defines real training?

        • JumpIf NotZero

          Formal. Structured. From instructors who have engaged in combat.

          … Find one serious outfit ANYWHERE that would allow this POS trigger anywhere near their school. Hell… Find one that wouldn’t laugh you out the door 😀

          • Joe

            Have you ever shot at someone while under duress with a firearm?

          • Evan

            I have. And I agree with JumpIfNotZero 100%

  • Bob

    Better than “bump fire”, but still an expensive “toy”! At $200,… maybe. No one has said anything about the trigger pull in SA. Mil-Spec? Better? Good? Bad?

  • Marcus Toroian

    I’ve been doing this on all my AKs for years, for probably 1/100th of the cost of this lower. I’m developing a drop in trigger group/selector lever that I hope to sell commercially eventually, for MUCH cheaper than this absurdly expensive unit.

  • Broz

    I had that ‘problem’ a couple of years ago with an AR of mine…my bud was shooting at the Sheriff’s range in WPB, FL and it seemed to double…thankfully no one noticed…I took it home and did a function check…the rifle fired with one pull of the trigger, BUT when it was released it fired again…I traced it to a small defect in the hammer…I tossed the hammer and replaced it with one from my spares box…now I wish I’d’a kept it. The fire control group functioned properly…just ONE shot with ONE pull…it was the second shot on the release of the trigger that bothered me…I couldn’t be sure that it wouldn’t be misinterpreted by the BATF as a full auto gun and I didn’t (don’t) have the money to hire a good gun lawyer…now I REALLY regret destroying the hammer!!! I could prolly replicate the ‘doubling’ with on of my spares if I tried…but we’ll see where this story goes in the future…

    • Franklinarmory

      It would have technically have been defined as a mg. ATF required a way to grab the hammer in release phase if you left your finger at the breakingbpoint. Their argument was that an automatic function could ensue if you could theoretically keep your finger in that position.

  • George Griffin

    This is not a new idea, I have had a “binary” trigger in my mini-14 for years, since they come with a 2 stage trigger it is very easy to shave down the two releases and make them fire on pull and release, I carry a copy of a letter from ATF stating it is legal to have the trigger ’cause I was asked about it once at a gun range.

  • Barney Samson

    If ever I’m at the range and someone comes along w/this setup, I’m getting the hell outta Dodge. Too many ways for a bad outcome to occur.

  • J.T.

    So you have to buy their lower for over $700?

    Pass.

  • BrandonAKsALot

    I like the idea of having a double-tap option, but I’m not so sure how much I like this specific option.

    Also, for the sake of clarity: disconnector =/= sear
    Two separate things in the fcg.

  • Phaideaux

    Wait, are they not doing the drop in trigger anymore?

  • Luke

    I would like clarification on the binary option. In binary mode: pull trigger fire. Switch to single, regular reset? That’s the decision maker for if I want to buy this. I’m worried about being responsible for my rounds if I can’t do this.

    • Cymond

      Yes, you can negate the second shot by switching it back to Single, although doing so is a bit clumsy. I’d prefer to not have to do that. It seems unlikely you’d need to if you’re double-tapping quickly enough.

  • Cymond

    I’m basically plagiarizing myself here:

    Checkmate guns offers an AR-15 with a doube-shot trigger called the Liberator. TFB reported on it back in August 2014. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/08/19/liberator-carbine-bi-directional-trigger-7-62×39/ Unfortunately, they don’t sell the trigger separately, only complete guns for $2400! Also, it seems to only fire in binary mode, no single shot option.

    Also, as others have said, a Mini-14 can be modified to fire like this by inserting a thick staple into the fire control group. http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a381/yekimak/batferuger2-shot001.jpg

    Finally, many seem to think this is dangerous. I don’t see it as any more dangerous than firing rapid double taps, or shooting a gun with a 3-round burst. You just need to plan and intended to ALWAYS fire a double tap. Don’t try to fire slow, single shots.

    Checkmate: https://youtu.be/a3bfgJlxpeE

    Mini-14: https://youtu.be/VhuQOZSwFvY

    And this one from an unknown person or company. His description on the video indicates that it is selectable between doubles and singles: https://youtu.be/OvmBqeuDzIM

    • Cymond

      Also, found this on their facebook page in a comment about using a rimfire conversion:

      “Franklin Armory: The single 22 conversion kit we were informed of caused the hammer to be fully cocked onto the BUD which made it operate in release mode only”

      Well now I don’t know what to do. I enjoy rimfires quite a lot, so I guess I should stick to a typical 2-stage in my favorite lower.

  • Mystick

    When I think “binary” I think of those experiments the US Army did on multi-projectile cartridges…

  • Chris laliberte

    Everybody nowadays trains to immediately reset the trigger upon firing,
    so basically, this system gives you a “two shot burst” setting on your
    firearm. You’ll have the same
    problem as burst-fire as far as accuracy is concerned–the recoil of the
    first shot may well move your bore off target for the second shot if
    you don’t control the recoil well enough. But in “burst-mode” you’re accepting that as a trade off for the burst effect. Ok, seems moderately interesting.

    The big problem I see is that this system
    might tempt people to use it not in burst mode, but in aimed single fire mode, thus developing the bad habit of holding the trigger to the rear while your sights come back on target for your second shot. That seems like a really bad training scar, because you are training two contradictory things–one is to index your trigger finger to the frame when your sights come off the target (and you go on safe), the other is to keep the trigger finger pressed back. That’s just bad. Under stress I could easily see someone getting crossed up and indexing their trigger finger to NOT fire, yet that release of the trigger would cause the firearm to fire. You can’t just abandon the Universal Safety Rule of finger-off-the-trigger, as it still applies whenever the trigger is released, so now you are training your brain in contradictory ways. That just seems really bad.

    I think the only safe use of this system is to treat it as a (non-NFA workaround to get a) 2-shot-burst option. If you try and use it as a more efficient way to reduce trigger movement while doing aimed single fire rapidly (like for competition or something) I think you’re taking a serious risk.

  • Fred Ziffle

    I just wrote a letter to the ATF asking for clarification on wether or not this trigger makes my AR a machine gun.

  • Molon Labe!

    I follow the constitution not the ATF. We have a right to own and carry ALL guns regardless of what the federal government says. They have no authority over guns so says the 2nd. I will not ask the government for a right they are restricted from infringing which means to limit or interfere with.

  • Mandos

    Can someone tell me whether barrels designed for semi-auto will hold up to the additional heat generated from these systems? I haven’t seen this issue, or non issue, addressed. Thanks.

    • DwnRange

      Standard Mil-Spec barrels (4150) are no different from those on FA military M16s.

      As a general rule you’ll cook the gas tube on a DI (direct-impingement) AR15 before the barrel give you a problem.

      Personally I wouldn’t walk across the street to see this “binary/release/ trigger, but then if it ain’t broke I don’t fix it and a big rubber-band is a whole lot cheaper for those interested in abusing their rifles.

  • BigFED

    “Release” triggers are popular on competition shotguns, particularly in trap shooting. IRC, if it has been pulled and then the shooter doesn’t want to shoot, they are set back to safe by pulling a little harder. I could be wrong, but one commenter said to put the gun back on safe via the safety. Problem is that requires very delicate manipulations to NOT let go of the trigger. ANY relaxation of the trigger finger would be … well, you know!!!

  • gregge

    “have duel disconnectors” DUAL dammit. If there’s anyone who ought to be able to get that correct, it’s anyone writing about guns.

  • Donald Darr

    The ATF rules change so much it’s stupid. Remember the guy who invented the “spring” recoil stock for the 10-22? ATF told him it wasn’t a “machinegun” until they saw how fast it fired, then he was told they were illegal even though they fired ONE shot per trigger pull (otherwise known as “semi-auto”)!

  • Andrew Milam

    The problem with the system stalling should be solved by speeding it up faster than the operated can manipulate the trigger between shots. The heaviest buffer springs and the lightest buffer and bolt carrier systems you can find should solve the problem.