[SHOT 2016] Desert Tech MDR news/update

All caliber fit into the same chassis. .308 pictured above, .223 below.

All caliber fit into the same chassis. .308 pictured above, .223 below.

Today at SHOT show, I was able to take a look at the Desert Tech MDR in both 7.62×51 and 5.56×45.  Desert Tech was taking orders on them currently, so they should head out to dealers soon.  Some salient information:  There is a handguard that will go around a 2-piece OSS suppressor for the 7.62 version.  Although Desert tech makes in-house suppressors, they are optimized for their bolt action rifles.

.308 OSS suppressor under handguard

.308 OSS suppressor under handguard

They are fully ambidextrous, and ejection can be changed from right to left handed simply by swapping a panel on either side of the firearm.  The panel contains the ejector, and cases eject forward from either side you select.  The panels do not need the rifle to be disassembled in order to change sides, they have their own tabs that can be depressed, and simply swapped over.  The charging handle is non-reciprocating as well.

rear tabs on the ejector panel that allow it to be swapped

rear tabs on the ejector panel that allow it to be swapped

 

The ejection port on the panel was welded shut on this show floor example

The ejection port on the panel was welded shut on this show floor example

There is no need to change out the lower receiver/chassis for 7.62×51, 5.56×45, or .300 Blackout (coming this summer).  To change caliber, one needs to simply change the barrel, bolt, and magazine well adaptor.  P1191106

All caliber fit into the same chassis. .308 pictured above, .223 below.

All calibers fit into the same chassis. 7.62 pictured above, 5.56 below.

Desert tech's in-house red dot pictured

Desert tech’s in-house red dot pictured (DT 1x Reflex)

The rail section in the middle is attached to the gas block of the free floated barrel. It is to be used with their 1x reflex sight

The rail section in the middle is attached to the gas block of the free floated barrel. It is to be used with their 1x reflex sight

Also new from Desert Tech is their own reflex sight, the DT 1X Reflex, which was mounted on the MDR.  Another MDR had an EOtech on it, and a lower 1/3 co-witness was able to be achieved with the irons. DMR and compact (registered SBR) versions of the MDR (micro-dynamic rifle, for those who are curious) are on the way, as well as an optional match/competition trigger.  The current trigger was a very good 2-stage trigger that broke cleanly.  I was impressed with it as far as bullpup triggers go.  There are 2 options for mag releas: one on the front of the magwell, and another forward of the triggerguard.  All controls are fully ambidextrous.  We look forward to reviewing one in the future, as well as taking a good look at the internals when we get the chance.  P1191117

Here’s the stats from Desert Tech:

5.56×45:

Weight: 7.3lb

Twist: 1/8

7.62×51:

Weight: 7.1lb

Twist: 1/10

.300 BLK:

Weight: 7.3lb

Twist: 1/6

All rifles are 26″ long with a 16″ barrel.  (I assume the extra weight in the 5.56 and .300 is due to the mag well adaptor.)

Thanks to Desert Tech for their time in answering my questions!



Rusty S.

Having always had a passion for firearms, Rusty S. has had experience in gunsmithing, firearms retail, hunting, competitive shooting, range construction, as an IDPA certified range safety officer and a certified instructor. He has received military, law enforcement, and private training in the use of firearms. He is fortunate enough to have access to class 3 weaponry as well.


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  • TDog

    Any word on MSRP?

    • Adam

      Not 100% positive, but $2k for the 5.56 and $2250 for the 7.62 if I remember correctly

      • Phil Hsueh

        Ouch! Guess I won’t be picking one up anytime soon, if ever.

        • Adam

          The 7.62 isn’t bad imo, but as far as 5.56 I’ll just buy a Left hand Tavor AND the Giessele Super Sabra trigger set for around that price!

          • ostiariusalpha

            Even with the Super Sabra, the Tavor doesn’t come close to the suite of features that the MDR has. But, everybody has to account for their own shekels, I guess.

          • Adam

            When you consider the multicaliber and switchable ejection, I completely agree. But looking at it as a single caliber platform is where I was coming from with that. I’d love to have either one, but I’d choose the MDR ultimately for those added features I mentioned and I’m sure there are more I’m missing…

          • Vitor Roma

            If you upgrade the Tavor trigger, it will cost close to a MDR.

          • Cuvie

            $2000 is the MSRP, which is the same as the Tavor

          • Adam

            True, its way too early to figure a street price for the MDR…

  • Paladin

    Why am I getting the feeling that the gun industry is conspiring to turn me into a pauper?

    • USMC03Vet

      A lot of interesting guns this year. It’s going to be a good year for firearm sales for sure.

      • Jwedel1231

        The election season will guarantee that.

        • RICH

          AMEN………

    • hikerguy

      So many guns…..So little money. 🙂

      • Paladin

        Say goodbye to financial stability, and say hello to a safe full of new toys 😀

        • OCD_Weaponry

          well guns on average have always held their value better than paper in the bank. Inflation has really taken a bite out of the value of my dollars but the value of my guns keeps on increasing in more than one way…if you know what I mean.

          • Paladin

            Being Canadian, and seeing the value of the Canuckistan Peso tank the way it has I very much do know what you mean.

          • stephen

            “guns on average have always held their value better than paper in the bank”

            I would disagree – I worked at a gun store for a while and if you look at the Blue Book of gun values shows that its hard to sell a gun for retail prices. Take a used gun to a gun store and they will pay way less than what you paid.

            Just like anything else, unless there is high demand the prices for guns is not good. Of course the interest in a bank is terrible so it doesn’t really matter.

            The problem is many people say guns hold their value but these people are not making a return on their guns. Most are purchased and kept. Whenever I hear someone say guns are a good investment and they don’t sell for profit, I just laugh.

          • OCD_Weaponry

            I respectfully disagree with that comment stephen. Depending on when you buy it and when you sell it a gun can be a good investment or you can take a loss. There are guns that have been made for less than a hundred bucks and sold for millions.

            My gun investment provides me with:
            #1 Protection for me and my family
            #2 Ability to hunt game to feed my family
            #3 Recreational target shooting fun times
            #4 Ability to resist tyrannical oppression
            #5 The ability to sell it if I want to convert gun metal to dollars

            The dollar depreciates in value every day and maybe one day pouf it might be worthless paper but the metal in my guns will still be a tangible value. Anyway thats how i feel about that matter.

          • Kivaari

            When in the business as a store owner, I told people DO NOT buy a gun with the idea it will increase in value. UNLESS, you are buying already collectable guns like Winchester lever action rifles (pre-63) or Colt (pre-70) because chances are anything new will likely not be a good investment. That said, I wish I had back all the AK. HK and odd military rifles I once owned. But when I bought them, I bought them because of want – blatant desire to have the newest gun out there.
            Some folks do OK doing the gun show circuit. I’ve only bought one gun at a gun show in 50 years. It needed work. I’d could do that.

          • OCD_Weaponry

            I don’t know guys I trust the value of a gun in the safe more than I do the paper in my wallet( stupid currency manipulators & inflation). Kinda anecdotal but my brother has sold many guns for what he bought them for or made a couple of bucks on them. Mostly aks, browning high power, hi point carbine, AR-15s

          • Jackson

            Bought a trophy match in 1993 for $700.00. It is now worth north of $1000.00. I sold all of my AR-15,FN SCAR 17, Armalite 180b, at the peak of the gun scare when people were buying like crazy and made a modest 35% profit on each. Almost doubled my money on ammo also. You need to buy quality first at a time when prices are cheap. Then hold until people are scared that the guns will be taken away. They will pay ridiculous prices then. I bought my FN scar 17 for $2700.00 and 6 months later sold it for $3500.00. That was not counting the optics,ammo,extra magazines that I sold also.

          • RICH

            A good business sense. Nothing that I have ever bought was with the intention of reselling it for a profit. My one biggest regret was an Inland M1A1 para I sold in the late ’70’s for $175….. i was in the process of a divorce. I saw one a few years ago that could have been had for $2,700 ! ! OUCH ! !

          • RICH

            It all depends on what it is and what you put your money into, Stephen. I have both lost money on guns as well as made decent money on guns. And like everything else I have kicked myself in the butt several times for ‘stuff’ that I have sold….. and wish I never did ! !

    • Kivaari

      They are just doing their fair share of keeping the economy rolling. I support free market gun sales.

      • Paladin

        As do I, but my wallet shivers with fear every time I check SHOT show updates.

    • RICH

      LOL…. I think that all of us that ‘LIKE’ or ‘COLLECT’ firearms are or will soon be pauoers ! ! I just spent more on a firearm than I paid for my first home in 1970 ! !

  • Whatever

    I was debating working part time being a Uber driver to buy guns, I don’t think that will be enough.

    • Hensley Beuron Garlington

      Maybe if you also gave plasma two days a week to get the bonus pay and did online work? Or just sell drugs since that’s what the democrats think all gun owners break the law way, you’re already helping out anti-gun Uber. LOL.

    • Reef Blastbody

      As much as I drop at the pre-owned counter at my nearest Cabelas, I’ve toyed with the idea of getting a part time job there to offset the hobby cost and get the employee discount.

      • iksnilol

        Isn’t Cabelas really expensive? Like with the discount it will only be normal prices?

    • Bal256

      You must not be a real gun enthusiast. Meanwhile I’ve been going to the local truck stop twice a week giving ZJs for $15.

      • Evan

        If you have to ask, you can’t afford it.

  • epicrad

    Hey, thanks for the update. You said, ” The charging handle does reciprocate as well.” Is that a typo because I was under the impression it was going to be non-reciprocating. . . .

    • iksnilol

      #ReciprocatingChargingHandleMasterRace

      😛

      • epicrad

        lol

    • Rusty S.

      it was a typo, I meant to write “doesn’t”, edited it to just say non-reciprocating so there’s no confusion. Good catch.

      • epicrad

        Good stuff, thank you!

      • iksnilol

        Consider me disappointed

        🙁

  • Arandor Thinnorion

    What advantages does it have over the Tavor that would get someone to pay more? I’ve seen brand new Tavors going for $1,565. If the MSRP on the Desert Tech is $2k, it will most likely have a street price over $1,800. So what are you getting for the higher price that’s better than the Tavor?

    • ozzallos .

      Because bullpup.

    • Vitor Roma

      Much better trigger, super easy to converto to other calibers and a LEFTY FRIENDLY bullpup hail the siniter gods!

      • Anthony

        all american made too alwas good to support a american business

    • Andrew

      MSRP on Tavor is 2k too. But being that Desert Tech is a small outfit compared to IWI, I bet lower production will result in much higher prices.

      • OCD_Weaponry

        They are a smaller outfit now but with this rifle I think they will become much larger!

    • QuadGMoto

      Both have the same MSRP. The MDR’s probably won’t drop to the same street price range for a while.

      The MDR has a better stock trigger. It uses forward ejection making ambidextrous use possible without having to swap parts. (Part swaps are possible according to preference.) It was designed around the more powerful .308. (My understanding is that the Tavor was designed for 5.56 first. I could be wrong.) The gas port is supposed to be auto-adjusting. The mag release has both a Tavor style lever and an AR style button. DesertTech is known for their no-compromise precision rifles, and they want the MDR to live up to that standard.

      That’s not to say the Tavor is a sub-par rifle. It’s not. It’s battle proven. (The MDR is new.) There are more options and third party support. The MDR may wind up to be slightly better, but there almost always “shiny new thing” glitches to be figured out.

      • iksnilol

        Is the MDR forward ejecting? Then what’s with the switchable pads on the side?

        Can’t I just get two of those pads and have one on each side (since I shoot ambi)?

        • Quest

          At the Tavor21 and X95 a huge disadvantage is the side ejection, i think the DesertTech MDR is more promising, but it would be cool if they could add a gripguard (acting as an intergral angled frontgrip).

          The MDR forward ejection with its perfect transition from right to left hand is more practical. Also it acts as an really good always closed dustcover, in the akm mud can find its way in relativly easy, it have a chance to jam instantly, the Ar15 with dust cover closed not, even with open dustcover its sealed better than i tought. But the MDR has it always closed intead of let it open after the first shot. And if some people arent sure if its reliable enough they simply can fold it up, and then down for left hand use.

          • iksnilol

            Nah, according to Popenker the MDR ejects to the side.

            Which means that the MDR isn’t the ambi dream we have been waiting for. Think about it, if it was forward ejecting then the side cover wouldn’t be necessary.

        • MrBusiness

          One “pad” pushes the spent cartridge into the other to be ejected forward by the bolt as it chambers the next round. It ejects out of the side of the rifle, but forward away from the shooter’s face.

    • Evan

      It’s ambidextrous for one thing. The Tavor isn’t.

      • hikerguy

        Well, it is, but not without some time to change it over.

        • Evan

          The guy at my local gun shop told me that the IWI guys told him that it isn’t recommended to switch a Tavor to a lefty bolt yourself, and that if you’re left handed and want a Tavor, you should buy a lefty one. I take his word for it, as it’s not exactly self-serving for IWI to tell potential customers not to spend an extra couple hundred dollars on a lefty bolt (lefty Tavors have the same price as normal ones). Even if it is doable, an ambidextrous gun is something I can shoot with my friends who aren’t left handed, which is to say basically all of them. And what’s the point of having a gun that doesn’t make your friends jealous?

          • hikerguy

            The only thing better than having a gun that makes my friends jealous is having one made for my left handedness, that will make them, while shooting it right handed, dance around when the case comes out and travels down inside of their shirt or arm. What fun! If I ever do get a Tavor it will be lefty. The idea of an ambi does resonate with me since my family are all righties. I would like a gun we can all enjoy shooting, right or left handed, that doesn’t take an unreasonable amount of time to switch over. The MDR looks promising.

          • CommonSense23

            Thats why you shouldn’t listen to the guy at the gun shop. IWI doesn’t say that.

        • Hensley Beuron Garlington

          Still, much less time than it takes to change the Tavor over.

          • hikerguy

            Yep. That MDR looks to fit the bill (or about 2000 of them).

    • BattleshipGrey

      Not sure what MDR caliber swap kits will cost, but to switch the Tavor to 9mm, the kit is about $800. I’ve also read that to swap to a left side ejection, you have to buy a separate bolt, where as the MDR switches just by moving the side plate without tearing down the weapon.

      • QuadGMoto

        $749 for 5.56
        $829 for .300 BLK
        $999 for 7.62 x 51

        • BattleshipGrey

          It’s all too expensive for me, but thanks for clarifying.

      • Reef Blastbody

        Currently, the announced pricing on the MDR puts you right around $3K if you buy the .308 rifle and 5.56 conversion kit, or the 5.56 rifle and .308 conversion kit. The base 5.56 is a couple of hundred cheaper, but the .308 kit is more expensive than the 5.56 kit. The MDR kits are about a hundred-ish more expensive than the Tavor kits, from what I recall off the top of my head.

        • ostiariusalpha

          Yes, but the MDR’s .308 kit is vastly less expensive than the Tavor’s. Nyuk nyuk! 😉

    • Reef Blastbody

      1: More caliber options than the Tavor, both .308 length caliber and 5.56 length caliber, as well as forthcoming pistol calibers and .22LR at some point in the future.

      2: Desert Tech wont require a Geissele Super Sabra or Tav-D drop in to have a non-crappy trigger. DT is rightly famed for the quality of their bullpup triggers, basically match quality out of the box.

      3: They’re a lot easier to customize as far as calibers go, they’ll sell barrel adapters to end users so they can get custom caliber barrels made. Want a 6.5 Creedmor MDR? You can do it. Tavor, not so much.

      4: accuracy. True, no one has received a production MDR and broken it in and done an accuracy test, but given their talent pool and history of building sub-MOA bullpup bolt guns, it’s not too big a stretch to expect the MDR will be at least a solid 1MOA rifle, if not better.

      • iksnilol

        Would AK feed be possible? AK mags and 7.62×39.

        • QuadGMoto

          It’s designed to support many different calibers. I think it’s safe to say that the 7.62×39 is within the platform’s capabilities. Whether they actually develop a conversion kit for that round is unknown at this point.

          • Rusty S.

            In development, and summer of this year is their target

          • QuadGMoto

            Thanks for the update.

    • OCD_Weaponry

      I own a tavor and love it dearly. However, the MDR looks to be about a pound LIGHTER has a lower height over bore with optics, an innovative forward ejection system, and multi caliber capability. As a TAVOR owner I am impressed greatly with the MDR’s Innovative addition to the bullpup family.

    • iksnilol

      Adjustable gas block allowing easy suppressing + I presume a good trigger considering the other rifles MDR makes.

      And it is lighter.

    • ravissary79

      it’s more modular, has a better stock trigger, can be quickly swapped to right or left, ejects forward (from the side, the side can be switched without tools at will in seconds). The barrel can also be hot-swapped quickly in a manner perhaps similar to the Beretta ARX or the MGI Hydra: without tools and without significant POI change.
      It’s also one of the only guns I’ve ever seen that isn’t just capable of changing calibers from intermediate to intermediate, but from full power battle rifle to intermediate, and from high cap SBR with standard nato logistics to counter sniper or DMR with twice the power in a few seconds.

      All that said. It sort of feels like a more plastic version of a Polish Knockoff, the forward eject is cool and innovative, but seems like it could be prone to failure in a less ideal situation, and I’ve already heard that the stock RDB trigger is better than the stock MDR trigger, at $500 less for models in the same weight, size, caliber and feature range. But of course, the MDR hasn’t had the chance to prove itself, and they also have a match/sniper trigger upgrade, and the RDB can’t do a rapid barrel swap, doesn’t have a floating barrel, and can’t upgrade to a full power cartridge (at least not yet, I’ve seen how it field strips and it COULD conceivably be upgraded with a larger magwell and a larger barrel assembly while still using the same foregrip, stock and upper receiver… so we’ll just have to wait and see, Chad from Kel-tec implied at SHot-show that if all goes well, they might eventually discontinue the RFB and produce a full-power RDB with interchangeable parts with it’s modern intermediate counterpart).

    • Smootchie

      To get the tavor to have a trigger that is halfway as good as the trigger on the MDR ( as far as reported anyway) you would have to spend an extra $450, not to mention the easy barrel/caliber change capability and the superior ambidextous ergonomic design.

  • USMC03Vet

    2016 year of the bullpup?

    • Andrew

      Until ATF decides to reclassify them as SBRs and introduce a longer OAL requirement.

      • Vitor Roma

        Don’t even

      • Hensley Beuron Garlington

        I have to down vote you for dangerous use of sarcasm that the ATF might think is great idea.

      • You mean congress? The ATF does not have that authority.

        • Andrew

          lololol since when does ATF need congress to be able to wake up one day and decide to arbitrarily outlaw a certain type of firearm

          • Since they were formed.

          • Laserbait

            Doesn’t really stop them from trying.

          • Hensley Beuron Garlington

            Indeed! They literally make their own ermine and dare anyone to spend the money to challenge them in court over it.

      • Hensley Beuron Garlington

        I’m down voting you simply because your sarcastic point could become ironic if the ATF likes it.

      • ravissary79

        I don’t foresee anyone classifying them as SBRs, since SBRs are “short barrel’s rifles” and these are rifles with long barrels. They also aren’t shorter than the already existing, very well spelled out OAL requirements. The concept of a Bullpup is clearly not a loophole in the law since otherwise an OAL requirement wouldn’t be included and it wouldn’t be so short.

        The Aug and Famas have been available to civilians for decades. The P90 semi version has joined that decades old club now as well. None of them inspired a change to SBR laws since none of them infringe upon the concept.

        It’s ridiculous to assume such a change would be made now. AR style pistols without buffer tubes (like the PLR16) are much easier to conceal than the RDB or MDR. The rifle pistol would get regulated out of existence long before the bullpup.

        Indeed, a change this great would likely accompany a sweeping Assault Weapons Ban, so either be VERY paranoid, or not at all. Bullpups aren’t going anywhere till the AR joins it in the scrap bin of freedom alongside speech, assembly, thought and religion.

    • BattleshipGrey

      Would’ve been nice to see the MSBS bullpup version too. Otherwise there’s the MDR and the bullpup shotgun. Any others?

      • Rusty S.

        X95

        • BattleshipGrey

          Yeah forgot that one.

      • CommonCents

        kel tec RDB just came out

  • Vitor Roma

    Btw, this gun is crazy light for a .308 at only 3.2kg, specially considering that a bullpup feels lighter due to the balance. This rifle can very well be the next big thing among special forces. Where can I buy some DT stocks?

    • Kivaari

      I doubt it will see SOF use in the US Military.

      • OCD_Weaponry

        yeah seems the procurement system in the military is run by a bunch of mentally defective people or is still stuck back in the Vietnam era. They still are ordering m-16 style rifles like there is no other rifle that is better

        • Kivaari

          Except, the current variants are exceptional rifles. We left Vietnam in mostly ’73 and finally in ’75. All that time the M16A1 performed very well. “They” people are always looking for improvements in weapons. That is why we ended up with a pretty good rifle, the M16A2. There is nothing wrong with the A2, except it is long and heavy. Then “they” saw a need for a shorter carbine, and got the M4 series. Those are fined carbines, that continue to function and kill bad guys around the world. All that time from 1957 to 2016 the military has continued to PIP and look at and even field test lots of other rifles. It turns out the basic M4 is what ends up being copied by SIG, HK and a whole raft of nations. Just what rifle is superior to the M4A1 or M16 A2-3-4 that has shown itself to be so much better. I don’t get it. We’ve had 58 years of PIP, and those rifles work.

          • OCD_Weaponry

            I own several AR-15’s and they are good little guns. They do everything I want them to do and I enjoy shooting them alot. But, I have little confidence in the weapons systems ability to reliably function if it becomes dirty with sand, mud, or if the slightest bit of debris touches the inside of the buffer tube or surrounding areas in the receiver/ bolt carrier group the component tolerances are too tight and are easily bound up when introduced to battlefield conditions. The charging handle is a terrible design ergonomically and the gun has a slapstick fix also known as the forward assist . There are better designs available I own one of them and I love my TAVOR. I will agree with you the M16 platform has become a damn good system all Im saying is that there are even better systems that have come out since Vietnam.

          • Kivaari

            What you should keep in mind is every weapon exposed to such conditions will fail. AKs simply stop working when filled with Egyptian sand. That is especially so for the magazines if they are not protected from infiltration. It is why some troops use the dust covers on spare magazines. The M4 comes sealed up better than most rifles. If you are not shooting, keep the dust cover closed. That will keep most crud out, better than most. AKs let lots of crud in. And a better feature of the ARs, is they are less likely to side crush. Contrary to popular belief, the M16 family is a tough system.
            It would be unusual to fire them enough to plug them up with fouling in a days work in active combat. I am pretty sure TFB has published articles about running them for 1000+ rounds without cleaning. That is impressive.

          • OCD_Weaponry

            In the 1967 six day war the Israelis often times captured ak-47’s from the Egyptians that they had killed. The Israelis came to know the kalasnikov as the “tiger of the desert” and preferred it over their issued FN-FALs because of their superior ability to handle the sandy battlefield conditions in the Sinai. The Galil was developed in response to the shortcomings of the FN-FAL and later the M16. While the Israelis have many m16s provided to them through military aid programs they have again stepped away from the m16 platform in favor of the TAVOR and the Tavor has more similarities to the ak-47 operating system than the m16 due to the gas piston system being more reliable in adverse conditions. The 1000’s of rounds at the range doesn’t make me blink its the “oh no I dropped my AR-15 in the dirt is it going to work moment”. I own a Tavor, VEPR AK, and Bushmaster AR-15 and out of all of them for reliability i would rank them as #1 the VEPR #2 The Tavor #3 the AR with accuracy going to the AR

          • Evan

            There’s some people here who just refuse to face the facts about the flaws inherent to direct gas impingement. None of them have used the M16/M4 in combat, of course.

          • Kivaari

            Yep. Just think how a mud bath could effect those little pistons and rods. Chances are the gun would still run better than an AK, but I suspect it wouldn’t run as good as DI gun. Too bad most AR-haters wont admit to the fact, that the US Army knows what they are doing. Maybe that learning curve from 1957 to now, has proven the AR is the superior rifle, and no one has come up with a suitable replacement.

          • Evan

            …said the guy who has obviously never attempted to shoot a dirty AR.

          • Kivaari

            You should go back and look at a couple articles on TFB. Showing how the rifles were shot a few thousand times with out cleaning. The shooters simply sprayed more lube into the action. I would say I have seen a few dirty M161 rifles. I would never allow my rifles to get as dirty as the contributing editors on TFB. I was the guy that sent the solders back until they learned how to clean their M16s.
            As a private citizen, using my personal guns or department guns, I would not abuse the gear.
            I am a little slower today, but last week I shot a big 40 rounds, an I haven’t cleaned the gun yet. It surely is a sign of degenerative brain disease to allow myself to go so long without cleaning.

          • Kivaari

            You are correct. I’d never let my rifles get so dirty.

          • OCD_Weaponry

            please refer to the test results for the “extreme dust conditions reliability test” that the U.S. Army Test and Evaluation Center (ATEC) conducted at the Aberdeen Proving grounds the Colt M4 comes in LAST place in the small arms reliability dust test. This test is something that I cant just ignore the results of.

          • Kivaari

            Did you read the crazy method used? FIRST each weapon was HEAVILY LUBRICATED. After 600 rounds each rifle was again heavily lubricated. Now that flies in the face of training in the US Army. We were trained, and I trained soldiers and police, that they should not over-lube the rifles. If we did a range session, the rifles were cleaned and a very light trace of oil was left on the rifle to prevent rust. Even though the rifles were returned to a controlled vault, they should be lubed. I liked using an air-hose to blow all excess oil off. It is a practice I use to this day. Extra lube is justified in very humid environments where it is not likely to attract dust nor freeze.
            Who was the genius behind these tests, that instructed the heavy use of oil? The person that wrote the protocols had a different agenda. I wonder how much stock they held in HK.
            Heavy lubrication is not something that would be used on anything being put into a dust or dessert environment.

          • Kivaari

            The primary rifle used in Israel has been the M16-variants. Why? It works. I was lucky to meet Nehamiah Sirkis an Israeli soldier and firearms designer. He was working for Detonics in Bellevue (WA) at the time. He told of him and Galili standing in the desert. Galili leaned over and picked up an AKM, looked it over, dropped it, then stood on it and crushed the receiver. Galili was quoted as saying. “When we make outs, it will have a machined receiver”. That is when Interarms was contacted, with the question who makes the best AK rifle in the world. It was, may still be, Finland’s Valmet. Israel bought 1,000 receivers, M16 barrel blanks and Stoner M63 magazines. The birth of the Galil rifles. Galils are excellent rifles.
            What was also noted at that desert meeting was many of the dropped AKs were they were inoperable. The reason being they were plugged with sand. Not just the action, as that’s easy to clear. but all the magazines. Soldiers were not caring for their individual gear in a manner like we do.
            The Galil, once hyped as the new Israeli rifle, as good as it is, wasn’t a good as the M16-types. One reason is the cost. Another is lifespan. Galils fracture at the rear of the locking lugs. Not a good thing. That is why when IDF soldier appeared in the news, about the only rifles seen are M16 carbines.
            Hand a rifle, any rifle to a soldier with inadequate training, that doesn’t want to be there, even in peacetime and often his gear will be in poor condition. Give an AKM to a scared and retreating Egyptian conscript, and likely it will be infiltrated to a point of failure.
            The TAVOR is an interesting rifle. I’d like to try one, But at this point in life, I’ll pass on buying one. IDF using it makes sense to me. Israel, like most countries want to use a domestic product. Israel has developed several home brew rifles, some worked well, but cost and long-term use showed deficiencies. Regardless of being home brew it has to perform and make bean counters happy. If the TAVOR lasts, and it certainly looks like it will, then Israel has achieved doing good for themselves.
            Personally, I wouldn’t want a bullpup that is not ambidextrous.
            If IDF is happy, who am I to disagree.
            As I look around the globe the primary rifle is an M16-type. If not. it’s an AKM, Chinese domestic guns, and a few troublesome homebrew guns in places like India. Good for them for trying to build a rifle of native design. The M16 is the native design of mine.

          • CommonSense23

            You realize the AR platform handles mud and sand exceptionally. well. It handles it better than almost all the competition.

          • Quest

            Yes just look at InRangeTV akm mud test -> jammed instantly at the first shot. Ar15 with closed dustcover was sealed and functioned, even with dustcover open it functioned, which suprised many.

          • Kivaari

            I love it. Vindication in a few minutes of video.

    • iksnilol

      Could be a good DMR if it is accurate enough.

  • Evan

    Wish it came with integral rails instead of that M-lok nonsense. I still want one though.

    • Hensley Beuron Garlington

      At least it isn’t Keymod which you already made clear you don’t like on the Daniel Defense lightweight .308 article earlier. Lot of people have gotten tired of the quad rail with its heavier weight for wasted rail space.
      You know you can put rails wherever you want them with these lighter systems?
      And handguard looks removable and chargeable anyway.

      • Evan

        Yes I am fully aware that rails can be attached to these silly systems. I prefer to have them already in place, use what I need, and never have to worry about attaching adapters so that I can accessorize my rifle as I see fit. I don’t really care about the couple extra ounces of a quad rail as opposed to these other systems, it does not make a noticible difference to me, and I prefer having more rail space than I need to not enough. I agree, the handguard looks removable, but I don’t know how much aftermarket support this rifle will have, and I dislike having to lay out extra money for things which should come standard. Overall I’m still intrigued by the concept, and while I doubt I’ll buy one this year, I probably will at some future point, after the bugs (if any) have been worked out.

        • iksnilol

          12-13 ounces isn’t really a “couple of ounces”.

          That’s the difference between an 15 inch quad rail and a KeyMod or M-Lok rail of the same length.

  • JumpIf NotZero

    OSS Supressors… 🙂

    They spend a lot of money so that I see and hear about them at SHOT… Not so much the rest of the year.

    • mig1nc

      Check out the OSS YouTube channel. Sick videos.

      • iksnilol

        Really disappointing in regards to suppression last time I checked them out.

  • A Fascist Corgi

    All hail the Tavor killer.

    • OCD_Weaponry

      I have a TAVOR dang you! You are probably correct though, I think this rifle is going to be better than my Tavor.

  • troy

    If they are actually in production shouldn’t a few be showing up in peoples hands? I am skeptical that they are actually in production. I hope they are but their marketing has seemed to be 2/3rds hype 1/3 reality.

    • Kivaari

      Remember, they are unlawful to import. They would need an American producer.

      • Paladin

        Desert Tech is an American based company, all their manufacturing happens in the US of A, no importation.

        • Kivaari

          Aren’t the comments for this article about the Polish rifle?

          • Paladin

            Nope, you’re on the wrong article, this is the MDR thread.

          • Kivaari

            So, I am. Well, that shows you that TFB has lots of things to read and comment on. The MDR is one fine looking rifle as well.

  • VF77

    I’m keeping my powder dry on this one guys. Let you whipper snappers be the EA’s and if it turns out to be the best thing since sliced bread, and after the price point drops, maybe I’ll jump in. I’ve ran out in front of too many new platforms to know that sometimes it’s better to hang back a little… Like the dad said to the kid when he said “hey dad, let’s run down there and f*#k one of them sheep”… “Son, how about we walk down there and f*@k em all”. Having said that, I urge everyone to place your order now! 🙂

    • Evan

      It’s an old bull and a young bull, and they’re cows, not sheep.

  • CommonCents

    wonder how it is suppressed and if you get gas face like a tavor.

  • OCD_Weaponry

    I bet $1 and 50 cents that this MDR platform will be hands down the KING of bullpups and of all semi or fully auto rifles!!!

    • iksnilol

      Until somebody modernizes the Korobov TKB-022… maybe.

      • OCD_Weaponry

        I just looked up that rifle it is kinda neat wonder how well it would work if it got dirty?

        • iksnilol

          Was good enough for Soviet Russia. Only thing is that they didn’t trust bakelite.

          • OCD_Weaponry

            Bakelite is so ugly its kinda pretty.

          • iksnilol

            I really like bakelite.

            It was just that at the time it was new, and God knows Russians like their long term storage. They were unsure about how well it would work stored long term.

          • Kivaari

            If it is the true Bakelite, it is fragile. Now a base of it mixed with other material can make a pretty good stock. At least in 1940.

  • GearHead

    Every year I see this gun I say the same thing.
    TAKE MY MONEY!!!

  • iksnilol

    Why is it patriotic to turn down a deal with Pakistan?

    • Rock or Something

      They may be an “ally”, but no where in the same category as Britain, let alone France. The company specifically points to unrest in Pakistan, with the possibility of their firearm easily falling into the hands of insurgents or Al Qaeda.

      Then again, they do have Nuclear capabilities, so all of it maybe moot in the end.

      • iksnilol

        Oh no! Nuclear power plants.

        Clean energy, oh the humanity.

        • ravissary79

          No, nuclear weapons. Yes, really. It’s an established fact. The publicly joined the nuclear club years ago.

          • iksnilol

            Yeah, the International Atomic Energy Agency. Kinda shooting yourself in the foot there.

            There is no evidence that Iran has built or is building any nukes.

          • ravissary79

            Pakistan has nuclear weapons. We’re not talking about Iran.

          • iksnilol

            Ah, s***, sorry, wrong country.

            Honestly? I don’t see the problem of Pakistan having nukes. I am more worried about the US having nukes (I mean, you guys actually used them). Or Israel having nukes (which is basically a puppet state under the US).

          • ravissary79

            this isn’t some long winded side track about whether Pakistan should be allowed to have them, but about Pakistan being unstable politically in light of being a hotbed for a lot of fanaticism. The topic is relevant because Desert Tech turned down a 15 million dollar deal with them. The issue of Nukes was brought up by another poster who was doubling down on the problem of proliferation and any weapons falling into the wrong hands over there. It’s a genuine concern, though bullpup rifles aren’t nearly the risk as nukes are. The difference is they made their own Nukes, they were buying the bullpup sniper rifles, so it’s a matter of ethics: people’s ability to do what they do is morally up to them till their actions directly effect others in a problematic way, however, when those actions require cooperation from yourself, the ethics are less abstract and theoretical, they’re now about what do YOU do.
            They chose. Many people find their choice to be refreshingly poignant, decisive and in favor of principle over the dollar.

            So… you live in fear of the USA nuking you. Fascinating.

          • iksnilol

            Not really, I am just saying that somebody who did something once are more likely to do it again. The US is most likely to use nukes, simply because they’re the only ones to have used them. I don’t really live in fear. I just look at the probability.

            Regarding nuclear weapons proliferation; nobody wants to disarm until the others disarm. And those who are unarmed want to arm themselves because the others are armed.

          • ravissary79

            this is profoundly tangential, but I’ll bite:

            The issue with Pakistan and nukes isn’t Pakistan using them (their balance of power with India mirrors our own with the USSR via M.A.D., except they’re also neighbors, so even a decisive victory would be a loss… so Pakistan using them isn’t a problem really at all. It’s about them BEING there, and the nature of popular extremism gaining influence, so much so that Bin Laden hid there rather well. I doubt Pakistan would nuke anyone. It’s what might be done by a non-state extremist entity that cares nothing for world peace, balance of power or it’s own people (since such groups aren’t beholden to any such group of people, they have no citizens).

            If anyone pulled the trigger on a Nuke in the 21st century, it’s far more likely to be a doomsday idealist pack of murderers like the Taliban or Isis, since they have no real ethic of human life as an abstract good in and of itself, and such groups would have a lot to gain from triggering a world-wide response if the balance of power is such at that time that allegiances make it impossible for the entire world to gang up on them, and if others are wiling to follow suit, ensuing the act is a sort of Bolshevik style first-shot for global revolution. Many people thought that 9-11 was such an event within hours of the occurrence, it turned out not to be, but a Nuke would be a very strategic first act if it is followed by sweeping action that takes advantage of the chaos to follow.

            Generalities about who’s used them being more likely to use them again is profoundly naive and simplistic. The USA is one of the least homogeneous groups, the people who decided to drop that bomb could fit in one room and are all dead and made the decision (according to history) while already committing millions to slaughter in world war and saw a shock-attack as far more strategically able to bring a swift and comparably more humane end (compared to more combat like that on Iwo Jima, or elsewhere in the Pacific, which was incredibly brutal, slow and victories often resulted in incredible sacrifices on both sides).

            No one has used them since, so there is no pattern of behavior to build a case off of. No one can prove you wrong that the USA won’t do it again first, but it’s beyond specious and illogical to assume that just because they did 70 years ago in a time when millions were at stake, that they’d be the first to do so in completely different circumstances. Indeed, now that it is a nuclear age, a world war might be STARTED with a nuke instead of finished with one. The campaign with Japan wasn’t started with one (all the Axis powers were overwhelmingly the aggressors in all cases, but didn’t have nukes, if they were then they’d have been the first to use them, but then they’d also be in charge now if they did, and then you wouldn’t be talking about the USA at all, you’d say “what ever happened to the USA?”

    • Hensley Beuron Garlington

      Their reasoning is discussed in the Fox News article I included. That they didn’t trust that their weapons wouldn’t be used against Americans. A lot of companies only see money and would of been happy to take $15 million and say, “they promised they wouldn’t use or allow our weapons to be used against us by entities within their country. That extra duty and loyalty to not trust the country that protected Bin Laden and persecuted the doctor that helped us catch him for millions is what made the decision patriotic in my view. I could of just said honorable I guess, but that would not have portrayed their loyalty as well.

    • OCD_Weaponry

      Pakistan is an “ally” right now because we are paying them hundreds of millions of dollars in order to transport our war materials and supplies through their territory to Afghanistan. Desert Tech employs many veterans that served over “there” and they were very against sending their rifles over to the Pakistanis because they felt the Pakistanis were about as trustworthy as the Taliban.

    • CommonSense23

      Calling Pakistan a ally is a big stretch. They pretty much allow the Taliban flourish.

  • Nate H

    Did my comment really get deleted??? Fine…

    Forget IWI!! (BETTER????) Desert Tech, take my damn money!!! I was saving up for a Open Div STI race gun, but this has just taken top spot. I’m willing to take the plunge, though since I’m not even close to my goal yet, I may get a chance to see some honest reviews.

  • iksnilol

    It still ejects from the side.

    • QuadGMoto

      Yes, the ports are on the side, but the spent casings are not being ejected sideways where there’s a chance to hit the shooter’s face. They are propelled forward, away from the shooter.

  • Kivaari

    Thanks for posting that. I’ve said the same thing for years. AS you can read here, not many people believe the M16 is worthy, and the AK is king. Well now, this little demonstration warms my heart.

  • Elvis

    I hope they offer it with a suppressor that has decent performance.

  • CommonSense23

    Curious what you background with firearms is.

  • One thing to keep in mind is that this is not an issue of particular concern for most shooters since they won’t be in areas that would allow a lot of dirt and dust in the rifle.

    • OCD_Weaponry

      I agree. My ar-15 has never failed me. But, I don’t pack it around in the desert or jungle or let it get dirty at all really. But from a reliability standpoint under adverse battlefield conditions I would contend that there are more reliable systems currently available.

  • CommonSense23

    Yep thats what I thought. Any time someone brings up the Aberdeen test its pretty much a red flag they don’t know what they are talking about, and just repeating headlines. The Aberdeen test were extremely flawed. To the point that its almost laughable. Allowing competitions to use their own mags. Using M4s and not the M4A1 with the Crane upgrades. Using M4s of unknown round count. Its why SOCOM couldn’t get the same results. Its why the Army didn’t even try the test again with STANAG mags, or with the M4A1. Its like the Beretta mud test from the M9 trials.

    • OCD_Weaponry

      yep you got it the M4 is the best gun out there always has been always will be and all others will never compare because there is only one good gun and it is the M16 and its derivatives. Better than even Laser guns.

      Sen Tom Coburn got involved because he was so concerned that maybe our soldiers should have a better rifle in their hands. But hey the army discontinued the test because they couldn’t have other rifles looking or performing better than the m4 I mean thats just blasphemy there cant ever be a better design than Eugene Stoners armalite rifle NEVER!

      Answer me this why did the other guns perform BETTER in multiple tests??

      Cmon man looks like you got your feelings hurt when presented with the facts.

      • CommonSense23

        Again, stop reading headlines from newspapers and start actually looking at the test. Look at the fact that the Army testers refused to use third party mags for the M4. The fact the Army banned at one point PMAGs even though they were found to be far superior by SOCOM than the issued mags. The other guns performed better in the Army test for multiple reasons. Not testing the SOPMOD M4A1. Thats a major point there. Refusal to use PMAGs or the equivalent for the M4. Not using new M4s, which is insane from a testing point.

        • OCD_Weaponry

          I own several ar-15s and like them and I run pmags in mine as well. I’ve never experienced a failure. I guess to sum it up I think m16 family is an awesome platform but reliability in extremely adverse conditions is done a little better by other platforms (but the AR beats most of the competition in accuracy). The AR has come a long way from its introduction in Vietnam though . Anyway, nice spirited debate!