Mosin Vs. Mauser Shootout!

During the first and second World Wars, Russian and German infantry were armed with Mosin Nagants and Mauser 98 rifles respectively. Thus, the Eastern Front twice saw these two rifles pitted up against one another in countless engagements.

In this installment of TFBTV, Alex and Miles drag out a 114 year old Gewehr 98 and a 72 year old Mosin Nagant to see which rifle is superior!

Thanks to our sponsors Ventura Munitions and Grizzly Targets.

Weapons featured:
Mosin Nagant M91/30
Gewehr 98 “Mauser”

The full transcript …

– Hey guys. It’s Alex.

– And Miles.

– And today on TFBTV we’re going to do the Mauser verses the Mosin challenge.

I caught a lot of flack in a video I did a while back about the top five infantry bolt action rifles, and I didn’t include the Mosin-Nagant, because quite frankly, I’ve owned several of them and none of them have ever impressed me in any way, aside from them being cheap, which is a pretty good feature actually.

– Yeah.

– So what we’ve done today is I’ve got a World War I era, actually 1901 production Mauser Gewehr 98.

This is actually an interesting one because it was made in Wartenberg and has a Ulm proof mark on it.

So it actually predates the 8×57 IS cartridge, but it was upgraded to IS and the Lange Vizier sight was accommodated.

And Miles is using a M91/30.

The 30 variant is a little in-aneristic, but the big differences are it’s got a round reciever, it’s got meters on the sights instead of arshin eye, and then it’s got a different front sight arrangement.

So basically we’re going to do some tests and see if the Mausin is in fact on par with what the Germans were using in both world wars.

Let’s get to it, Miles.

– Good thing. Let’s do this.

– Alright guys. So the first test is going to be who can get off ten shots fastest.

So that’s going to require five shots, a reload with a stripper clip, and five more.

All right, let’s get ready.

– All right.

– All right, shooter ready? – Ready.

– And go.

(guns fire) – Done.

(Miles exclaims) (gun fires) – You beat me there, Alex. You beat me pretty good.

– I beat you by a pretty fair margin there.

– Oh, definitely. Definitely.

– So score one for the German empire.

– Yes, yes, yes.

– As you can see, we’ve got targets at 100 meters.

I’m going to be doing five rounds with the Mosin-Nagant.

And Alex is going to do five more with the Mauser.

(cocks gun) (gun fires) That is a pretty tough bolt, especially after you get after a while. Shooting after a bit.

Just getting that bolt over that top, it really gets stuck there, something the Mauser doesn’t have a problem with.

– All right guys. So now it’s the Mauser’s turn.

We’ll see how I do at a 100 meters.

(gun fires) One hit.

Two.

Three.

Four.

And I missed the last one. Dang it.

But, score one more point for the Mauser.

– All right. We’re going to put these rifles through their paces, we’re just going to do a little movement to contact type drill.

Simulate walking around on the western front somewhere, on the eastern front.

And we’re going to be walking around, and a bunch of Germans appear over there and we’re going to simulate that.

So, from up here.

Moving around, oh we’ve got contact front.

(gun fires) (smacks bolt) (Miles grunts) (gun fires) I’m out! So, did pretty good.

Oh, and we’ve got one more.

(gun fires) (smacks bolt) That bolt handle.

That’s getting really stiff doing these reloads.

It’s just getting caught all the time.

I would not want to be an Ivan in a hurry, that’s for sure.

– All right guys, it’s time to do walk and fire with the Gewehr 98, we’ll see if it can best the Mosin again.

(gun fires) And out.

All right, all in all I think the Gewehr 98 did a pretty good job, however the Mosin still did pretty good.

While this edged it out I think, what I think we learned is that running and shooting with a bolt action rifle is pretty dang hard no matter what rifle you have.

All right guys, so we did quite a bit of shooting today with both the Gewehr 98 and the Mosin-Nagant and I think we came to the conclusion that the Gewehr 98 is a better gun.

– I think I came to that conclusion before the shooting started.

– The good thing about Mosins, is they’re a good way to get into shooting inexpensively, because starting with a large center-fire cartridge might sound silly, however it does help you work out things like your flinch and stuff.

I mean, if you learn how to shoot on big gun when you move to smaller bore guns, it’s going to be easier.

As silly as that sounds, there is some truth to it I think.

– And it’s got the whole historical aspect, as well.

Sure, they’re cheap and everything, but this one is date marked 1943, middle of World War II.

If the historical aspect does it for you, this will get you there.

Good way to start off a collection.

– Absolutely. You can buy a very significant piece of history for- – 150 bucks.

– Just over 100 Bucks. Yeah.

– Whereas a good Mauser’s going to cost you quite a bit more than that.

A lot of people would say the 98 is the best bolt action rifle ever made, I would argue that it is as well.

So I guess a more accurate test is, these were introduced in 1891 and adopted then, would maybe be something like an Argentine Mauser, or Spanish Mauser would be a better comparison.

– A Mauser versus Mauser.

– Well, no. Like if you squared off an older Mauser design, one of the cock and close Spanish Mausers, or even a G88 commission rifle, that’s not technically a Mauser, would be more appropriate.

However, in the context of World War I and World War II, the Germans had a better gun. It really is.

However, Miles actually brought something forth.

There’s a challenger that could potentially dethrone the Mauser.

– Definitely. Definitely.

– Now, what gun is that, Miles? – The Lee-Enfield.

– Miles says the Lee-Enfield’s a better gun, so I think it would be cool to do a part two, where we do the same tests with an Enfield, because it’s indisputable you can fire an Enfield faster.

– Mm hmm.

– At least most people can, I would say.

So yeah, that would be a cool part two.

But until then I would like to thank Ventura Munitions for providing the ammunition for these old war horses here.

– And Grizzly Targets, we shot the heck out of them today.

These are some high powered rounds we were throwing down range.

– We keep trying to destroy them, but we don’t have much luck there.

So anyways guys, this is Alex C.

– And Miles Vining.

– We’ll see you next time on TFBTV.

If you’d like, maybe drop a comment and hit that subscribe button.

– Until next time.



Alex C.

Alex is a Senior Writer for The Firearm Blog and Director of TFBTV.


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  • Inb4 Mosin fanboys.

    • mosinman

      NYET IS NOT OF FANBOY
      WE OF APPRECIATE THE WORK OF TOVARISH SERGEI IVANOVICH MOSIN

      • Dave C

        Hulking square-jawed social realist Dolph Rundgren look-a-like with Soviet hammer to Paul Mauser:

        “I must break you.”

  • ManBear

    Awesome vid – Cool idea for a video too. Shootin the Mosin always a good time

  • milesfortis

    You should’ve traded and repeated the exercise.
    Also, Alex’s bolt manipulation and reloading techniques are more much more practiced than Miles.
    Still; quite interesting

    • Coincidentally, Miles is an infantry marine and firearm instructor. I am a neckbeard with a penchant for old guns.

      • Flounder

        So he is great with modern guns… Which is why you gave him the gun designed in 1891?

        Oh sorry that is the date of the first production models…

        • He owns a Mosin so he is more familiar with them. I would say he is a better shot than I am but that I probably have more experience with old bolt action stuff.

          • Although I own one, and am slightly more familiar with it, that bolt handle was just insane manipulating, and I can easily see how the Mauser was just seen as so superior due to the bolt manipulation and rate of fire alone. Especially back then when a units fire superiority depended on how many well aimed shots they could could get off as a whole.

          • noob

            So the historical test would be to have about 5 of Alex and about 30 of Miles (with only 15 mosins) and seeing the weight of fire you could put on targets.

      • milesfortis

        I’m aware of Mr. Vining’s background, as well as yours.

        The point was that a better comparison of different rifles can be made when fired by the same person.
        And the individual capability of each person can then be compared with the different rifles.
        I have, and have had, versions of both of these bolt actions military rifles, and other types as well, and the one thing to remember with them is that while they are, by current standards, considered obsolete, they are all still quite useful.

        • Sgt. Stedenko

          Maybe Miles should remove the plug of chew for better bolt manipulation.

  • Vitsaus

    Once the Mosin supply dries up, and they are going for the same prices that Enfields or M48s go for, the fanboyism will equally dry up. When price ceases to be a factor, and the rifles are held up along their contemporaries, the legion of weaknesses will be undeniable.

    • “the fanboyism will equally dry up”
      I cannot wait for this day. Until then, Mosins are the best thing ever made because they are cheap and available everywhere.

      • mosinman

        Never!

        • Flounder

          It’ll happen eventually. But the ammo will be cheap for much longer since the russians STILL use 7.62x54r.

          And despite all my comments the mauser is still going to be a nicer rifle most of the time.

          But the video was just kicking the underdog.

          • mosinman

            you lie the Mosin is eternal!!!

      • Vitsaus

        So much Mosin butt hurt, its hilarious. Remind me of the Hi-Point defenders, only the Hi-Point guys spend more on their guns.

    • Major Tom

      In the time it takes for the 38,000,000+ (nobody’s really sure how many were built, not even the Russians) to be worn out, broken or otherwise expended so that the price rises significantly, the existing stocks of other contemporary rifles will be all but depleted save museum pieces.

      • Marcus D.

        They have gone up considerably here in the last 5 years or so, from $109 (on sale) to $179 (also on sale, otherwise $200).

        • Grindstone50k

          That’s the market. The price is whatever someone will pay for it, and with the recent scares, people were willing to pay outrageous prices. I picked one up last year for $125.

  • iksnilol

    Milsurp Mausers in 308/30-06 are cheap here in Norway. Not the best of rifles but you get a lot of bang for your buck.

    Also, isn’t it a bit unfair to have two different persons for two different rifles? It just makes it way less scientific.

  • Don Ward

    Now do it in Minus 20 degree temperatures with General Winter howling down your back!

  • lowell houser

    I would argue that the best bolt action service rifle was the M1903A1, but that’s me.

  • Lance

    Well Alex you rigged the test in the G-98s favor. Most Mosin Nagants made completely during the war years where much poorer quality than the prewar rifles. Same for German G-98s and KAR-98s. Two your friend didn’t do proper drills or bolt manipulation for the M-91/30 so you had the advantage.

    I’d pit a good 1941 or earlier Nagant against your Mauser and it be a much closer match Alex.

    Plus didn’t matter if Germany had a better rifle, Alex. They still lost WW2 and Berlin laid in ashes for decades.

    • Not_a_Federal_Agent

      Alex doesnt like Mosins because he made a fool of himself on 4chan’s /k/ weapons board on several occasions. As such, he is very much disliked there and this is some vain attempt to insult /k/’s favorite rifle. Beyond that, this video is pretty pointless, none of the “tests” prove anything other than Miles could (if he has any desire to, that is) work on his speed using a bolt action– with a major sticking point being his unshouldering of the rifle every time he works the bolt.

      • mosinman

        is there any proof of this?

        • Considering that 4chan is a largely anonymous board, no, there probably isn’t.

          • mosinman

            probably not.

      • Don Ward

        Any enemy of 4chan is a friend of mine!

      • I knew to try and keep the rifle shouldered, while manipulating the bolt, but on that particular rifle, it was just impossible to apply enough force to work it, with the rifle shouldered, and that’s why I dropped it soon after. You’ll notice in the speed shoot, that I initially attempt to reload with the rifle shouldered, but quickly figure out that I’m actually losing time doing it that way.

      • Paul White

        Just going on 4 chan kind of makes a fool of you to start with though.

      • Oh wow, he made a fool of himself on /k/?

        Welp, sorry Alex, we can’t be friends anymore, because 4chan doesn’t like you.

    • What possible motivation would I have to rig this test? It isn’t like Paul Mauser can rise out of his grave and write me a check so his gun can outsell the Mosin-Nagant, lol.
      Also, Miles is a staff writer with more experience than I behind a gun, having served as an infantryman in the United States Marine Corps. I on the other hand have no military or law enforcement experience as I am merely a hobbyist.
      Lastly, we were going for a WWI theme, and I would like to remind you of one-sided battles like Tannenberg and the fact that the German Empire knocked Russia out of the war. Also in that war, small arms played a relatively small and somewhat insignificant part. Artillery was king.

    • Wait, Lance, I thought you hated “Euro-trash” guns?

  • Vitor Roma

    K98 vs Lee
    K98 vs K31 (What if the nazis invaded Swtizerland)
    K98 Vs Swedish Mauser (to see how much the reduced recoil of the 6.5×55 improves the shooter perfomance)

    • Why use a K98? The rifle length version is fine for this sort of thing.

      • Vitor Roma

        Ah, I wasn’t even thinking about the barrel length/model, just wrote K98 because it was quick and short. You can replace every K98 by “any german bolt-action rifle shooting 8×57”

    • 6.5x55Swedish

      6.5×55 also feed very well.

    • Muri

      I wanna see that K31 duel – what’s better than GP11 at 300 meters? 🙂

      • Vitor Roma

        Maybe a 6.5×55. I really want to see the recoil difference between the 6.5mm and the 8mm

    • Take it from me, the 6.5×55 doesn’t have substantially reduced recoil. It’s a big ol’ mean smallbore round.

      What would be interesting about that is that the 96 Mausers are cock-on-close.

  • Bear The Grizzly

    You were judged by the Mosin and found to be unworthy. Do not blame rifle for your own shortcomings as a man.
    ***Warning! You just experienced intense sarcasm.***

    • Note taken, I’ll be seeking Manhood employment elsewhere…

  • Flounder

    It is hardly fair to compare a mid-war rifle to a pre-war (WWI) gun. That mauser is more than twice the cost of the mosin and the ammo is at least the same (with shipping and bought online).

    It seems like that mauser is a baby of yours and you went to the store and snagged the cheapest mosin just for this test.

    It also seemed like your buddy never handled a mosin. Sure the ergonomics suck on them (Just try and use the safety, yes, they have one) but he was fumbling like crazy. It was kinda hilarious.

    He also shot very differently then you did, like you worked the bolt at your shoulder he dropped it off and worked the bolt at his side.

    You also should have swapped rifles.

    The whole video seemed like you were out to prove something instead of having fun or actually comparing the rifles.

    PS FAILED for no usage of bayonets. Or any actual WWI tactics. I want to see that 2000m mark on the mosin used! And Trenches. Lots of trenches.

    • I had never shot that Mauser before that day and the Mosin I have had for years. Miles is a staff writer here and owns one too.

      But what would I have to prove or gain from skewing this kind of testing? Scoring a side deal from heirs of Paul Mauser?
      But I will concede that bayonet usage would have been cool.

    • Sgt. Stedenko

      Fat, drunk and butthurt is no way to go through life, son.

  • Also if anyone wants another neat Vs. video with a Mosin, Ian and Karl at InRange used one against a Springfield Trapdoor:
    https://www.full30.com/video/219a3090c409f10e5e06c4d0ef70df62

  • fastbackfan

    I want my 10 mins back. 2 none professionals with 100-60 year old rifles that are in who knows what condition. Can’t compare two people,two old as hell surplus rifles and expect a real comparison. This video has no value. The videos churned out have really come down in their substance from Alex. I hope these guys aren’t compensated per video rather than content.

    • The video, along with other TFBTV videos are made by firearms enthusiasts, for firearms enthusiasts. We aren’t Discovery Channel, or History Channel, or FPS Russia for that matter. We’re simply gun guys, making interesting videos, for other gun guys to enjoy. There’s nothing scientific, hard fact based, by the book method that we are adhering by. It’s just us, with a camera, some rifles, and a little bit of creativity, for your viewing pleasure. If you want videos with value, you can pay for feature films, documentaries, etc…

    • Tomaso

      Lol…seems you got 10x the value you paid for… I think you owe Alex .

    • So… I’m guessing you own a few Mosins?

    • Sgt. Stedenko

      Do the bolts on your Mosin collection suck as well?

  • quraina

    Are you guys sure that’s a good range to practice your run-and-gun? Who might be in the woods behind that low berm you are shooting at?

    • I’m sure Alex can add to this, but the angle at which we were shooting was actually downhill, into a depression. I don’t know the layout of the range beyond that just because it was only my second time out there, but Alex has been going there for years, and knows it much better to comment on that. In addition all that area is private property, not some backwoods shooting gallery. In essence, safety precautions were taken.

  • guest

    I call BS on this.
    The only “problem” Mosin has is poor ergonomics when it comes to the cycling the bolt, the rest however is purely up to the shooter. And this is coming from someone who owned a pre-ww2 mauser and liked it a lot.
    As far as the testing “method” – also complete BS. At the very least the rifles should have switched hands and the “test” repeated.

    This kind of bias is coming from around the same camp that has “problems” using the “bad” sights on AKs and can’t shoot straight past 100 yards with it. As with almost everything shooting related, the problem is behind the trigger.

    • I call BS on your calling BS.

      • Craig

        This just in: gNat has no appreciation of the scientific method or realitiesw of shooting.

  • capybara

    Hello? If you are going to compare a Mosin against a Mauser, why not compare the best Mosin? Finn M39 anyone?

    • If we could get a loaner I would do it for sure.

  • Major Tom

    “That is a pretty tough bolt, especially after you get after a while. Shooting after a bit.

    Just getting that bolt over that top, it really gets stuck there, something the Mauser doesn’t have a problem with.”

    The Mosin bolt while heavy is not that rough. It takes a little practice, like 100 cycles of the action without firing to get used to it.

    You can’t treat it like the handle on a Mauser or Springfield or Remington 700 derivative. It’s a very simple motion that Mauser-working the bolt actually makes harder. It’s simply up, back, forward, down in that order. With practice, you can make that bolt clackety-clack open and back shut in about a second, just like a Mauser derivative.

    Of course this video forgot one thing. The Mauser and the Mosin fought each other on the battlefields of the Eastern Front in far greater scale than almost anything. And guess what? The Mosin prevailed in the Great Patriotic War. The Mauser was left to rot in the ashes of history only showing up in pittance amounts post-1945. Meanwhile the Mosin fought in Korea, Vietnam, China, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria today, and countless elsewheres over the Cold War and beyond.

    • mosinman

      to be fair, as much as i love the Mosin I’d say the T-34 played a bigger role in winning the war. in fact i think the Russian industry was the real MVP

      • Major Tom

        Depends on the battle, location and phase of the war. Early on the Mosin had to carry everything, even when there weren’t enough rifles and submachineguns to go around. Later on the Mosin fell behind in favor of literally entire armies armed with Papashas and PPS-43s. (Let’s see a matchup of one of those vs the MP-40!)

        The T-34 while the Superman of medium tanks in 1942 really started showing a lot of weaknesses towards the end. Such that its mythical uber tank status was well and truly dispelled by 1953 with the observations of the Korean War and American Easy Eight Shermans vs Soviet T-34-85s.

        Industry rates up with the Mosin-Nagant, PPSH-41, T-34 and DSHK machine gun overall but early in the war, the Russian industry was nothing special. (Though once they got everything situated in the Urals…)

      • I would say people tend to over-emphasize the importance of small arms in large, modern conflicts.
        And lets not forget that in WWI, the German Empire dealt crippling blows to the Russians with far fewer people (Tannenberg) and even knocked Russia out of the war.

        • The_Champ

          Absolutely spot on Alex! We are all gun nuts here and tend to focus gun details, but the reality is that the small arms used by various armies at various times in the conflict ultimately played little part in the sway of a war Iike WWII.

          Read any of the great modern over-views of WWII by John Keegan, Antony Beevor, or Max Hastings to get a sense of the enormous scale and breadth of the conflict, and let it sink in that what the individual soldiers carried as personal weapons ultimately mattered little.

          I would add Patton’s bombastic quote about the M1 Garand is just that, bombastic.

          Although its hardly this simple, I would best condense it by saying that WWII was won by American Industry and Russian blood.

          • Georgiaboy61

            Re: “I would add Patton’s bombastic quote about the M1 Garand is just that, bombastic.”

            Depends on how you look at it. No doubt, Patton was capable of being bombastic, but he also had a very deep understanding of warfare. Perhaps his remark reflects the fact that no matter how advanced the weaponry of war gets, in order to take-and-hold ground, ultimately you still need a grunt with his rifle to do it.

            “Americans in 1950 rediscovered something that since Hiroshima they had forgotten: you may fly over a land forever; you may bomb it, atomize it, pulverize it and wipe it clean of life—but if you desire to defend it, protect it, and keep it for civilization, you must do this on the ground, the way the Roman legions did, by putting your young men into the mud.”

            ― T.R. Fehrenbach, This Kind of War: The Classic Military History of the Korean War

        • mosinman

          I think the unrest vs the Czar had quite a bit to do with that. hard to fight a war when your people are revolting or on the verge of a wide scale revolt

          • With Tannenberg? Not at all.
            But Germany pulled a brilliant political hail mary when they sent Lenin to Russia with a smile and a bag of cash.
            All of the European powers were facing mutinies and revolution during World War I, Russia just happened to fall first due to clever political maneuvering and the marshall prowess of the German and Hapsburg Empires.

          • milesfortis

            Martial. Martial! Martial!!
            *clasps head between hands because this sounds like a line from the Brady Bunch series*

          • My bad, was using voice-to-text.

          • mosinman

            i was talking about the reason Russia dropped out of the war in general. not Tannenburg. had the Czar been more competent i could have seen Russia fighting back more effectively, but we never will know for sure

        • Paul White

          Yep. Unless someone was fighting exclusively with some old WWI era bolt actions….I tend to think small arms a ways down on the list of why a nation wins or loses a war.

      • Grindstone50k

        I would say sheer numbers played a bigger role. The T34’s advantage vs late-war German tanks were numbers and supplies. The Panther was a T34 killer, but they just couldn’t be effectively wielded.

        • mosinman

          well the 85mm gun helped close that gap. ultimately numbers helped to win the war, but the arrival of the SU-100 , IS-2 and the use of the ISU-152 meant that the Soviets had something to deal with things like the Panther while the T-34-85 outclassed the panzer 4 and its stug derivatives

          • Grindstone50k

            True, but those arrived too late-war to really be decisive. Germany was already on the ropes.

          • mosinman

            the first T-34-85s were made in late 43, the SU-85 even earlier. the first IS-2s were late 43 as well the SU-152 was a May1943 machine the switch to the ISU-152 was due to the production of IS-2 hulls. the only tank i mentioned that came late was the SU-100 which started mass production in September 1944 and was widely used in the last year of the war

    • mikee

      “Surplus” Mauser rifles showed up in all the above campaigns as well.

    • Tomaso

      Had nothing to due with the rifle….it was the man power….and thier hardened winter tolorances. And the fact the German high command was lead by an egomaniac that didn’t listen to those that knew better.
      The Mosin is just an ok design built tough and aplenty….
      Now the Enfield is superior is action ,manipulation and round count. Not sure of accuracy ,seem on par per my shooting .
      Both can have rim lock and both have tricky stripper clip feeding. Weight wise the Mosin wins by a tad but the Enfield is far more handy. Of all WWI/WWII bolt actions I’d take the Enfield SMLE over any……even though the k31 is by far heads and shoulders superior in trigger, sights, speed of bolt and loads quickest and accuracy…heck even the millitary G11 ammunition is match grade stuff….still I prefer the SMLE the first true BATTLE RIFLE…..just imagine what that rife would of been like originally chambered in a rimless case.

      • ostiariusalpha

        Nathaniel F. had a recent article that went over some of the complications that had to be dealt with on the development of the rimless 6mm Lee Navy ammo, and that was just the smaller stockpile the U.S. Navy required. As cool as it would have been in some what-if sense, you can start to see why the British didn’t want to gamble on arming their entire empire with a cartridge that can potentially fail at the web easier than a rimmed cartridge. The rimmed cartridge also made the extremely generous chamber on the SMLE possible, since the rim creates it’s own headspacing.

    • Grindstone50k

      You know the war wasn’t won by the rifles themselves, right?

      Also, Mausers are still in use in many places in Africa, along with MP44s.

  • Southpaw89

    Not really surprised here, you don’t see countless military and hunting rifles copying the Mosin action. But I see a lot of potential, maybe some kind of championship match of rifles, to be fair keep them bolt against bolt, but I would suggest for future videos to try an Enfield, Springfield, Carcano, Arisaka, 1917 Enfield, and maybe even a K-31. Could a fun series.

    • Im in!

      • Southpaw89

        Shoot, almost forgot the MAS-36, that one too.

        • 6.5x55Swedish

          mm/1896 as well. Sure, the action isn’t one of a kind but the 6.5×55 is a nice feeder.

      • 6.5x55Swedish

        Do the same with WW2 era automatic rifles (not carbines but rifle sized weapons like the Ljungman)

  • M

    A lot of people are trying to poke holes in this. Alex, I think you should do a crossover study – that is, run the trials with one weapon, then switch rifles and do it again. Then tally up

    • Zugunder

      I mostly agree, except it shouldn’t be Alex. Someone not biased should do it.

  • Tomaso

    Alex after reading all the comments I appreciate what you do even more…….holy crap I hope I’m just missing my sarcasm meter .

    Heck when you guys layed on that berm I thought to myself “with all that trash it’s just like a battle field”

    I do like the suggestion of pitting a WW2 Mauser vs k31

  • ostiariusalpha

    A battle of the straight pulls would be too cool: the M1895 Steyr-Mannlicher, M1895 Lee Navy, Ross, and the various iterations of the Schmidt-Rubin. Nobody will complain too much if you can’t get ahold of an M1893 Mondragón and it’s bizarre 6.5×48mm ammunition.

    • No mondragon, but I did just get a Lee Navy. Finding ammo is proving to be difficult.

      • Joshua

        it has to be hand loaded, and watch what cartridge you start from, their are two that can be re-sized, one works, the other has to little brass at the base and will rupture into the extractor cut out. I can’t remember which, talk to Ian McCollum (forgotten weapons), I’m pretty sure he did a video on it

        • You use .220 swift brass, but even finding projectiles is proving to be difficult.
          That is what you get for making gun purchases based on the advice of a cartridge collector (thanks Nathaniel, lol).

          • iksnilol

            Are 6mm bullets rare now? Uncommon, sure, but rare?

          • 112gr round-nosed 6mm projos are not so common.

          • iksnilol

            Could you use spitzer projectiles? Or would that be bad due to the twist rate?

          • It would be an iffy thing.

          • Hey, you asked me what would be a good collector’s item, not what would be a great shooter with inexpensive ammo.

            Next time, I do you a favor and paw through auction listings for you, I’ll just send you a list of nothing but Ruger 10/22s. ;P

          • Hmm, I do like 10/22s… **rubs chin while imagining a safe full of 10/22 rifles in every possible configuration**

  • plingr2

    Where is Patrick ?

    • Patrick R.

      I took some time away from TFBTV to tend to some family issues. I will be returning to the channel shortly.

      • plingr2

        Good luck

      • Brian M

        Can’t wait to have you back. 🙂

  • Dave C

    Allow me to add, tovarish, that Mosin-Nagant bolts in the trigger guard/trigger assembly and receiver tang getting loose, or starting loose, will, through the perversity of things mechanical, make for a stickier operation too.

  • Just say’n

    Thanks for the video guys. I own and frequently shoot in timed competition the M39 Finish Mosin, the M38 Swedish Mauser and K-31 Swiss. All have their strengths and weaknesses, but the K-31 is best overall. Based on the test shown here, a K-31 would beat anything hands-down. Fast, smooth straight-pull action, 6 shots, magazine change option instead of solely relying on stripper clips, laser-like accuracy. I guess they were never fired in anger, and didn’t have to prove themselves on the battlefield, but isn’t that the best kind of weapon? One that is so good that it deters the enemy (a little revisionist history there…I know…).

  • KW, if you ever get the chance, get four or five cleaned, cosmo-free Mosins together, and a pack of different-colored sharpies. Pull the bolts on all of them, and mark each safety with a different color sharpie, then scotch tape the corresponding sharpie to the Mosin near the muzzle. You can also use tape. The shift all the bolts one place down the line. Check the function of all the bolts. Don’t shoot them.

    Some will be really smooth, and some will suck, and some might not even close.

    This explains why some perfectly clean, cosmo-free Mosins still have crappy bolts that you have to whack open with a 2×4 (or if you’re a real man like me, you just knife-hand it with Mosin-fu).

  • A Westinghouse, Remington, or Imperial Mosin in good shape is not only a great-shooting firearm, but they look really great, too.

    Of course, all of those tend to be a lot more expensive than the hundred-dollar surplus guns you find now, almost all of which were made in or just before WWII. So, I mean, for those hypothetical individuals who seriously believe they are getting a great value with wartime production guns, that’s not really the case, much of the time. It doesn’t make the ol’ Three Line Rifle a bad design, but it does reflect on the arms used by the troops of the Soviet Union during the war, and it is an important thing for the surplus rifle consumer to understand before they buy.

    But enough of that, here’s my opinion: I like Mosins, especially ones that are a little rough, and especially M44s, because they’re hilarious to shoot. No kidding, one of the most fun times you can have on the range is to get a few boxes of $.25/rd 7.62x54R, an M44 with a “normal” sticky bolt (almost all M44s are like this, because they’re all wartime guns), and a friend. Get on the firing line, deploy the bayonet, load, and then have your buddy scream at you that the fascists are coming and you have to shoot them, and try to fire it as fast as possible while still generally hitting the target.

    No really, try it.

  • gunsandrockets

    As a followup I would like to see the same Mauser vs the MAS 36.

  • Brian M

    Even my russophilic self will admit that the Mauser is a far more polished design than the Mosin. The Mauser is a more finely tuned piece of engineering. This, however, does not leave the Mosin as an inherrently inferior piece. More has to be analyzed to make a conclusion about a system than just the surface elements.

    Something to be analyzed must be the degree of difference between the two. Given that the two have fairly similar accuracy and firepower, especially given the limitations of the magazine and manual operation, it must be concluded that these are in employment terms not drastically different firearms. The Mosin’s bolt has the primary fault of having a short handle. The Mauser’s bolt handle is much longer, which gives an advantage in torque for manipulating the bolt. Of course, a bolt should not be difficult to operate — if a milsurp bolt is sticky, take it out, bathe it in paint thinner, dry it off, and then completely drench it in automatic transmission fluid. Also apply fluid to the receiver if you wish. Do this and actuate the bolt one hundred times in order to drastically ease the action.

    The Mosin action does have the advantage of simplicity. It’s very rugged, tough, and is very resistant to malfunctions. All the parts are also extremely tough.

    The Mauser sights are more suited for target shooting, because the notch is so narrow and the post is so fine. This makes greater precision easier, but makes rapid acquisition more difficult. The broader Mosin notch and wider post are easier to pick up, but not quite so fantastic at achieving optimal precision.

    It is possible to operate both without taking the gun down from the shoulder, provided one does not jam their face right up behind the receiver. The Mosin action is immensely strong, perhaps matching the Mauser on account of having larger, thicker locking lugs, and a bold handle that would have to go through several inches of steel receiver wall to hit the shooter if it blew up.

    The Mauser’s safety is indisputably more user friendly. It’s also nice to have a bolt that’s all one piece, although this means getting pushed out of headspace puts a Mauser down permanently, whereas the Mosin just needs a bolt head change. The multipart Mosin bolt also can vent more gasses, providing an extra layer of safety to the shooter.

    For an army, the price is vital. This is where the Mosin really shines. The Mosin is extremely inexpensive, unlikely to have significant maintenance needs, and is extremely easy to produce rapidly with a minimum of skilled labor. Remember that Russia had lost about 80% of its industrial capacity to Germany in 1918 when it bowed out of WW1. Remember that Russia very seldom made large quantities of arms in peacetime. This means of the at least 17,000,000 91/30 rifles made, almost all of them were produced from 1940-1945. The Kar98, meanwhile, was produced from 1935-1945, during which time they produced around 14 million in a country with a far greater industrial capacity and a lot more time and did not have its industry almost completely wiped out twice in roughly 20 years. Remember that Germany also forced everyone they conquered to build Mausers, too, and many of those countries alone had better industrial capacity than the USSR. The Mosin’s enormous advantages in manufacture and price made it a war winning rifle, because money and resources that would have had to go to infantry rifles, a relatively unimportant class of materiel, instead were able to be allocated to more important things like machine guns, artillery, mechanization, and armor.

    Conclusion: The Mauser is more like a competitor’s gun. The Mosin is a soldier’s weapon.