FireCLEAN Defends Product, Publishes statement on “CanolaOilGate”

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FireCLEAN have published a statement regarding “CanolaGate“. They have said (emphasis added to important paragraphs) …

We would like to address recent false or misleading allegations that range from simply misguided to false, defamatory, and libelous. These attacks have been made by competitors and others that paint our product in a false or misleading light. The allegations do not focus on actual performance or relevant tests, and draw a misleading picture.

FIREClean™ Advanced Gun Oil is a specifically formulated, technically superior weapon reliability solution that resists the harshest firing with enormous heat and carbon overload that seize most weapons. It is a formulation- made specifically for exceptional reliability in firearms and weapons- not a re-labeled or re-packaged product.

FIREClean™ has been proven in combat in Afghanistan by US Special Operations Forces, and is in use by Army, Navy, Marine Corps, and Air Force Special Operations. It is also in use by elements of the FBI, DHS, DEA, CBP, Secret Service, Department of State, various intelligence agencies as well as numerous State and Local Law Enforcement Agencies.

FIREClean™ has been successfully tested on and is in use on weapons from handguns and shotguns to fully automatic and suppressed individual weapons. It has also been successfully tested on and is in use on crew served weapons from 5.56mm M249s to 40mm Automatic Grenade Launchers.

In addition to over 3 years of Combat and Service/Duty usage, FIREClean™ has been used on the competition circuit by the best shooters in the world, including the US Army Marksmanship Unit. It has been used to win multiple National Championships in Pistol, 3 Gun, Sniping, and many other competitive shooting disciplines.

We are proud to be of service to those that bear arms in defense of our freedom, those that serve to keep us safe in our communities, and those that carry firearms for self defense. We are also pleased to be of service to tens of thousands of competitors, hunters, and recreational shooters- all of whom appreciate the highest possible levels of reliability and safety.

We believe that our performance speaks for itself. We offer what we and many others regard as the best, highest performing product on the market. We have not commented on the formulation, nor will we do so now. We have focused on performance, and we will continue to do so.

Rest assured that we will defend our good name against false, defamatory and libelous allegations using the full measure of remedies available to us.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

For what is it worth, here is my opinion on “CanolaOilGate” …

By all accounts, FireCLEAN works well. They have many followers who love their product. We know, based on the patent application filed by the company founder, embedded below, that FireCLEAN is likely to be 100% vegetable oils that have a high smoking point.

The spectral analysis appears to confirm this and shows it is all, or mostly, Canola/Rapeseed oil. I am not qualified to interpret spectral analysis results, but I take Andrew’s word for it.

My own opinion, for what it is worth, based on my reading of the patent, it is probably mostly Canola oil by weight with one or two other common vegetable oils mixed in.

I know I might be shattering people’s worldview, but most, if not all, gun lubricants and cleaners on the market are high mark up products made from cheap chemicals. Nobody out there is inventing new chemicals to use with guns.

Now if you are a FireCLEAN user who is worried you are being duped into paying more for FireCLEAN than you should, you can very cheaply determine if this is the case. Buy a bottle of Canola Vegetable Oil for a few dollars and try cleaning your guns with it. If it works the same as FireCLEAN, stop using FireCLEAN. If it does not, resume using FireCLEAN. It is literally that simple. Canola may work better for some people than others, depending on the types of shooting they do, the local environmental conditions and the type of ammunition they use etc.

In fact, this is what I am going to do. Tomorrow when I visit the supermarket I am going to buy a bottle of Canola and see if it works the same as the Hoppe’s No.9 Lubricating Gun Oil I have been using for most of my life. Worst case scenario, I waste a few dollars at the supermarket. Best case scenario: I save a lot of money in the future.

On the other hand, I will continue using Remington Rem Oil wipes, despite the price, because I like having oil wipes on hand and the convenience is worth the price. And as far as solvents go, you can take my Hoppe’s No.9 Solvent from my cold, dead, smelly hands.

Below is the patent application for FireCLEAN. It is essentially a patent for packaging either one vegetable oil, a combination of two or a combination of three vegetable oils into a bottle for sale as gun lubricant.



Steve Johnson

Founder and Dictator-In-Chief of TFB. A passionate gun owner, a shooting enthusiast and totally tacti-uncool. Favorite first date location: any gun range. Steve can be contacted here.


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  • Red Leg

    So with all that being said by them they do not deny being a canola oil. Nor do they want to comment on its formulation. And the patent essentially seals the deal. Interesting.

    I guess the bottom line is if it works, it works. I’ll stick to what has worked for me though and it’s not fireclean.

    • Sounds like a good plan to me.

      • If you do a chemical analysis on shampoo guess what most of it is? Corn starch yet you don’t use corn starch to wash your hair.

        Its the refinement and whatever else they add that might be proprietary which is not on the patent. If they are paying money for a refining process to be exclusive to them they don’t want to give that info away.

        • John

          I took lots of honors organic chemistry in college (an Ivy) and yes, the spectral analysis of shampoo and corn starch would be very different and not identical.

          • if you do a search you would see dry shampoos are made from corn starch and there are recipes to make DIY dry shampoo from corn starch. So yes chemical analysis would show that the majority of store bought shampoos the primary ingredient would be corn starch.

          • Mihoshi

            Actual person involved in making shampoos here.
            Your comparison ONLY goes for dry (that is, powder in a spray can) shampoos.
            Regular ordinary shampoos in a bottle are mostly water by weight, and after that there are several surfactants, conditioning agents, perfume, and preservatives.

            So your statement is rather misleading, especially since dry shampoos are a rather small segment of the market.

          • Regular ordinary shampoos were also found to be mostly the same exact ingredients despite different prices and claims.
            Cornstarch was also often found in these regular shampoos from the supermarket.

            At least dry stuff says what it is honestly made from rather then claiming some chemical name or formula.

          • Mihoshi

            Modified Corn Starch (MODIFIED, e.g., NOT Corn Starch) is a thickener.
            And yeah, a lot of ingedients are going to be the same between regular shampoos. There’s only so many ways to skin a cat.

            But that wasn’t what the hoopla was about, was it? Sad try at redirecting the conversation, 3/10 for effort

          • Sorry I can’t buy that idea.

          • Bill

            Holy crap, now the debate is about shampoo? I just rub the bar or soap on my head, which I make out of animal fats and tallows……hey, I wonder…..

          • DaveP.

            Did you originally specify ‘dry’ shampoo, or are you moving the goalposts now that you’ve been busted BS’ing?

            *checks original post* Yep… full a’ bull.

            Further logic note: If shampoo is “mostly corn starch” as you claim, and then doubled down on in your second post, then YES people ARE ‘washing their hair with corn starch’.

            When do you plan to start making sense?

          • I spoke of lab tests done by students over 20 years ago. Guess what most of the ingredients on shampoo no matter the brand or cost are often the same exact damn thing.

          • Mihoshi

            Ahahaha! 20 years ago?

            Man, that might as well be the middle ages in cosmetics design.

            Corn Starch is NOT a major ingredient in any modern bottled shampoos. And if an ingredient comes after, say, fifth or sixth place on the ingredients listing, chances are it’s less than a percent per weight, and most likely even less.

            The only thing you’re somewhat correct about is that a lot of the base ingredients are the same, and even then sulphate-free shampoos are taking off more and more, and opening up an entire new segment of the market, and using entirely new sets of ingredients, because the synergy between the surfactants and conditioners is completely different.
            Development ain’t standing still.

          • DaveP.

            No dude, you didn’t.
            Direct quote:

            *tootiredoftheright Mihoshi•a day ago

            Regular ordinary shampoos were also found to be mostly the same exact ingredients despite different prices and claims.
            Cornstarch was also often found in these regular shampoos from the supermarket.*
            Stop making things up. Especially when all it takes to show that you are making things up… is looking a whole half-screen up the comments section.

    • Yep, it does not really make any difference what it is made from. But if they publish a spectral analysis showing its not 100% canola oil, I will publish that analysis. Hell, if they offer to reimburse me, I would be happy to arrange an independent test myself and publish the results.

      … but again, it does not make much difference. Use it if you like it … or don’t.

    • 2wheels

      Yeah, I really wasn’t impressed by their press release. They use a bunch of big words, fancy phrases, and name dropped all the people who allegedly use their product…
      But they don’t deny that it’s canola oil… And that says something to me, that they don’t really want to come clean about what’s in their product. I don’t care if a gun oil is 99% spit, as long as it works.

    • n0truscotsman

      And their response was saturated with more deflection through marketing memes and numerous appeals to authority.

      F–k them. Thats all Ill say.

  • lowell houser

    • 2wheels

      I’ve been thinking about experimenting with motor oil for years, this guy has me thinking about trying it out once I get back to the states.

      • Etkini

        I’ve used motor oil for a few years. Still on the same quart I originally bought 6 years ago, too. How’s that for cheap lube?

        • Drew Coleman

          But how well does it work for cleaning? I started using Froglube because my parents hated the smell of the stuff I used to use. I continue to use it simply because it works well for my needs and I don’t like change 🙂

        • JumpIf NotZero

          Yea! Let’s intentionally burn and inhale petrochemicals! Because so what we have non-petroleum based and non-synthetic alternatives!!! Let’s breathe in burnt motor oil… For fun! … Oh, and because it’s CHEAP! The number one reason people do stupid things.

          Genius!

          • skusmc

            Can’t tell if sarcastic, or if you really are a hypocondriac.

          • Sgt. Stedenko

            He’s intentionally stupid.

          • TheNotoriousIUD

            He just shows up to tell Larry Vickers to eat more vegetables and generally whine about stuff.

          • Grindstone50k

            No, LESS vegetables. Because it’s apparently healthy to starve yourself skinny.

          • TheNotoriousIUD

            Of course.
            I stopped reading that guys posts, theyre always the same.

          • Joshua

            Synthetic motor oils are non hazardous across all 3 tests.

            Ingestion, inhalation, and exposure.

          • JumpIf NotZero

            Do those test burn and aerate? No. They don’t.

          • Etkini

            I take it you’ve never eaten McDonald’s then.

          • JumpIf NotZero

            Sometimes I can’t help myself! Like twice a year.

          • RickH

            I can’t really tell if your serious or not, but the biggest hazard of motor oil, is USED motor oil because it has all the combustion byproducts suspended in the oil which is hazardous to your health.

          • Grindstone50k

            Do you hold your breath when you go outside?

          • JumpIf NotZero

            Not long enough to please you I don’t think.

          • Grindstone50k

            Then you have zero internal combustion engines around your area?

      • n0truscotsman

        This is a bit of a stretch, and im definitely not a petroleum engineer, but, to me synthetic motor oils (mobil1 etc) are true CLPs. Anecdotally they have proven themselves to me to be better CLPs than, well, CLP.

        They are excellent for cleaning, due to the detergents in them
        They are excellent lubricants
        They are excellent for protection against corrosion

        basically three attributes that are absolutely essential in internal combustion engines.

        Most importantly, perhaps, they are CHEAP.

      • patrickiv

        The only reason I’m reluctant to try motor oil is because I tried it once as a cutting oil (for lathe work) and it stank up the place when it vaporized. I can’t remember if it was regular or synthetic. 3-in-1 oil has a mild citronella smell when it vaporizes.

        • M1911

          I’ve used synthetic motor oil on my guns for years. It doesn’t smell — not when I apply it, not when I shoot the gun, and no when I clean the gun.

    • Uniform223

      This made me remember this…

      • stephen

        I never knew there was a myth of over lubrication.

        Much ado about nothing.

      • CommonCents

        how stupid can you get??? why don’t you dunk it in lube then roll it around in the dirt and sand? then see what happens.

        this vid is almost as bad as vickers vid using his warrior background as excuse for why he is FAT.

        maybe he should quit eating his fireclean lube and using it on french fries and fish.

        • JumpIf NotZero

          That fat thing is KILLING ME! Then you have all these idiots that are like “bu by he can’t work out!” As if working out has any bearing on he amount of calories in vs out! Stop eating and drink more than you are expending, pretty simple stuff!!

          As to lube… Meh. There idiots even in this thread talking about motor oil, because obviously it’s a great idea to directly burn and inhale petro chemicals!!!!

          • CommonCents

            yeah, they should do some honest marketing and use that as a selling point. I suppose canola oil smoke is better than motor oil smoke. But they shoot themselves in the foot by bragging about MORE smoke is better because it means more carbon fouling is coming out of the gun (and being inhaled) 😉 vs. a higher smoke point lube that may smoke much much less.

          • JumpIf NotZero

            Fair enough. And yes, being “natural” doesn’t mean good for you. Organic peroxide will mess you up! Cyanide and Mercury are perfectly natural.

            But given the choice, I’ll go with veggie oil over motor oil. The MSDS comparison is EASY right there.

          • Joshua

            I stand by motor oil. There are a ton of synthetic oils now that are completely non hazardous.

            I personally used motor oil during deployments. At home I use Royal Purple. It’s harmless, the MSDS says the worst thing that can happen is stomached aches from ingesting copious amounts. Inhalation has no side effects.

            Synthetic oils are the key.

            As for LAV being fat…he’s fat cause he eats to much. No amount of exercise will counter a diet with to many calories.

          • imachinegunstuff

            I used motor oil on machine guns before, worked like a champ.

          • JumpIf NotZero

            Yea, there is bad crap in primers no doubt. But motor oil isn’t something I want to breathe. There is a whole world of untested side effects that come from petrochemicals that I want nothing to do with.

            And yes, Lav is fat because he eats and drinks too many Calories. I thought this was obvious but got yelled out the last time I said that…. Now that hating on LAV is cool though….

        • G0rdon_Fr33man

          Vickers and nutnfancy are the two most annoying characters in the gun media world. I wonder if he jer*k off to his own voice. I guarantee that all the russians he have visited have been dying of laughter behind his back.

          • M

            Iono, I like the Vickers videos because he showcases pretty rare firearms (like where else would you see an AN-94 or an AEK-971 in action?). Also his slow motion videos have an exceptional production quality and most show things don’t exist elsewhere (like an FAL fired full auto in slow-mo). The rest of his stuff is meh though

        • Sam

          Question: Do you have a debilitating injury that prevents you from working out? I’m asking, because I hurt my back a few years ago and it’s a struggle. I’m not blessed with great genetics either, and I eat the same thing as the dude with the six pack next to me. Everybody’s different, and mileage on your body is a real thing.

          • CommonCents

            Hi Sam, yeah, I have some low back probs from a worn out low back disc. No doubt it’s a struggle. You definitely have to change up some activities but there are plenty to do for everyone to maintain some fitness. Heck many in wheelchairs can remain fit. As far as eating, yeah, if you are less active you need less calories too.

            Everyone has excuses, even some legit ones. But its up to you if you want to believe them and accept your status quo and let your own excuses limit your life. If you believe your excuses and do nothing, you will atrophy and problems will magnify and only get worse.

            Good luck to you! As I know first hand back probs are no fun!

          • JumpIf NotZero

            Truth. Man oh man does everyone have excuses!

            Last month I got a ton of crap because I said LAV being fat was BS… This week it’s cool to hate on LAV though.

          • JumpIf NotZero

            I’m not blessed with great genetics either, and I eat the same thing as the dude with the six pack next to me.

            Um…. no offense… but there is your problem. Genetics don’t mean much and the food you eat has ZERO bearing on what I eat. My TDEE (total daily energy expenditure) is very likely higher than yours – because I workout, run, and keep my body fat at approx 15-18%. Just because I can a Wendy’s #7 with cheese, medium fry and a coke, and end the day under my TDEE doesn’t even remotely mean you would. TDEE = BMR (Basel metabolic rate, the calories you burn doing nothing) + Cals burnt during activity.

            Yes! It’s easier to keep a higher TDEE if you have a lot of muscle mass that is accustomed to burning calories, and you’re more active. But that doesn’t mean crap about weight.

            Fat is unburnt calories. Don’t want fat? Don’t take in more calories than you burn. That’s all there is to it.

            The issue for people trying to lose weight is the discipline and education. You need to be able to ID your foods macros (ratios of proteins, fats, carbs), able to understand where you need to be. And be able to enforce that in your food intake.

            Most people suck at both of those things. There is an issue with people trying to do too much at once, which goes into the disipline. And some people will have real issues taking in enough nutrients during efforts to stay under a TDEE. But I guess that goes into education as well…

            Short story. No, your genetics or injury has no bearing on anything. It’s CAL IN vs CAL OUT. It sucks (seriously) that you can’t enjoy the same amount and types of foods I can because if you do you’ll get fat (I’m with ya man! I LOVE eating!) but that’s how it is.

            Raise your TDEE or eat less.

        • Uniform223

          “why don’t you dunk it in lube then roll it around in the dirt and sand? then see what happens.”

          So long as that stuff stays out of the actions it should be fine. My experience in the sand box with my weapon never had any issues so long as I kept the dust cover closed and the actions clear of debris.

          “this vid is almost as bad as vickers vid using his warrior background as excuse for why he is FAT.”

          Why don’t you do half the stuff that man did and then you can say something. It is rather common for veterans to gain weight after service. Even the ones that are perfectly fit and able… we don’t have to do PT anymore if we don’t want to (now this doesn’t mean we should live an unhealthy life style). If you’re going to hate on the man and his professional experience simply because of his weight then you can kick rocks.

          “maybe he should quit eating his fireclean lube and using it on french fries and fish.”

          So what if companies sponsor his videos and activities. If that is the case then why don’t you hate on TFB every time they thank a company for supplying them with ammo or firearms?

          • CommonCents

            everyone has legit excuses for eating too much and exercising too little. whether or not you choose to believe your own excuses is your choice.

            the dunking of weapons in lube was seriously stupid. it was a straw man that nobody wonders about. especially when they didn’t drag it through the dirt.

            if you hawk products, you should be responsible for vetting them before putting your reputation behind them. very simple. the lame brain idea of more smoke equals cleaner weapon is absolutely ridiculous. put veggie oil in a pan and turn up the heat. tell me there is no smoke. it doesn’t mean the pan is cleaner.

      • Limousine Liberal

        Misses the point they’re trying to prove a little. Carry those guns through the desert for a couple days and then see how well they function. Might be fine. But…that’s the point of not over-lubing the weapon. Not whether or not you can pull them out of a bucket of motor oil and shoot them.

    • Grindstone50k

      Ok, lube question is basically settled. On to solvents!

  • HB

    Well, even if the Cooking oil you’ve bought didn’t work well on your gun, you anyway can use that oil for your not-to-distant future home cookings, so you won’t necessarily wasting money…. it is ‘COOKING OIL’ anyway, from the beginning!

    • ha, I was about to write that, then thought I probably would not cook with something that had been sitting around my gun solvent. I am wealthy enough to afford to throw away $2.50 worth of oil 😉

      • JumpIf NotZero

        Humble brag

    • CommonCents

      Vickers put out a video on excuses why he’s fat. Maybe he’s been eating too much of the fireclean. frying up french fries and fish at every video shoot.

  • Marc

    “most, if not all, gun lubricants and cleaners on the market are high mark up products made from cheap chemicals. Nobody out there is inventing new chemicals to use with guns”

    Absolutely. That’s why I only use industrial lubes in my guns, mostly lithium-moly grease. The Swiss Automatenfett they use on their SIGs is nothing else.

  • Don Ward

    Well, they are certainly trotting out the false, misleading, defamatory and libelous code words that I mentioned earlier on Nathaniel’s post. It seems they are beating their chests here about “good name against false, defamatory and libelous allegations using the full measure of remedies available to us”.
    Of course they’ll have to prove that every one of their detractors are operating in a manner that is intentionally malicious with the knowledge that very few libel cases in the US are ever fully concluded. Or at least that is how this hicktown reporter was taught when it came to media law.
    Although I’m not a lawyer, I’d imagine any case would involve a subpoena of FireCLEAN’s secret sauce recipe which is something that I’d wager they have no intention of being let known since it seems to be mostly likely vegetable oil. Although probably not vegetable oil with the exact same concentration of ingredients as “Crisco”.

    • Chi Wai Shum

      It is difficult to imagine any extra stuff, which seems to be just vegetable oil anyway, they have put into Fireclean is truly improving the performance. They are likely to be there just to justify the claim that Fireclean is not “Crisco”.

      • Don Ward

        And the trouble there is the word “Crisco” which can mean the actual registered trademark brand with its own secret recipe blend of vegetable oils. Or it can mean just the generic word Crisco which has become a catch-all phrase for any vegetable oil. Kind of like how sodas are generically called “Coke” in the South.

        • DaveP.

          “Co’cola”. Gotta pronounce it right.

          • Joshua

            Nah, its coke down here.

    • n0truscotsman

      That and the whole lawsuit thingy doesn’t benefit companies (AAC), especially in the gun world where many gun owners are contemptuous of the civil court system. It pisses off gun owners and they take their moolah somewhere else.

      They aren’t going to do anything. They would be causing far more damage to their brand if they did so, if their battleship isn’t already sunk as it is…

      • M1911

        Your belief that they won’t do anything assumes that they are rational. While I think you are probably correct, there is always a chance that they are not rational. Or that they think they can outspend a critic and scare them into capitulation — strategies that have worked in the past.

  • Andrew Tuohy

    I’m just here to push a secret agenda, the details of which no one is certain, but some are quite sure exists.

    Oh, and I’m just here to read the comments.

    • HE ADMITTED A SECRET AGENDA!!!!

      (joking)

      • MRHapla

        Admitting there is a secret agenda is the first step to discovery,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

      • DAN V.

        This guy

    • LOL—and you said you would never tell:-)

    • thedonn007

      Well, at least we know at least a few more bottles of Crisco are going to get sold this week thanks to you.

      • Sgt. Stedenko

        Crisco will go rancid over time.
        Does FireClean?
        How about running a 8260 VOC and 8270 SVOC analysis.
        Less than $300 and it will tell you more than the IR fingerprint.
        It may be canola but it’s also probably more refined with some additives.
        Nobody at TFB has obviously obtained a degree in science since the scientific method is beyond your pay grade.
        Hyperbole generates page clicks.

        • 6.5x55Swedish

          It does say use within 1 year on the bottle so yes.

          • thedonn007

            I did not know that FIREclean had a shelf life.

          • Rick O’Shay

            They probably don’t want you to smell it after it goes rancid and go, “huh… this crap smells exactly like cooking oil.”

          • Phillip Cooper

            Well, I know from baking and cooking with cast iron that canola tends to smell like fish when it reaches the smoke point- so there’s another possible test- lube a weapon with canola and a weapon with this stuff. Do a few mag dumps till the oil smokes. Do they both smell like fish?

          • supergun

            Catfish or grouper?

          • LetsTryLibertyAgain

            Quoting Frank Zappa: There are three things that smell like fish. One of those things is fish.

          • M40

            They add an acetic acid distillate to keep it from going bad. The distillate (also known as vinegar), makes FireClean more effective, longer lasting, and really great on steaks and salads.

          • The Brigadier

            Sounds like he mixed up a vinaigrette that is oil and vinegar and few spices. Wonder what the spices are in FC?

          • It doesn’t—

          • 6.5x55Swedish

            Did some googeling. Seem like they removed it from the bottles over a year ago. Perhaps they were not sure about its shelf life or it just didn’t look good. Who knows. If it smells funny or change color/texture then throw it out, otherwise use it as long as you can. 🙂

          • Sgt. Stedenko

            Did not know that.
            Thanks

          • Old Hick

            Nowhere on the bottle does it say to use within 1 year. Not on either one of the bottles I have.
            Canola oil may be a part of the ingredients, but i am certain it is not all that is in it. until all test have been performed to prove them wrong, it is just a rumor mill….

          • Shmoe

            Certain? How can you be certain, of something you have no evidence for? I mean, it would be reasonable to expect that it has some sort of preservative/denaturant, but there’s no evidence in favour of that. Just the contrary, actually.

          • Beyondbreakeventrading

            This would be a good place to point out the author of this article didn’t say their product contained nothing but canola oil, however he suggested, based on the spectral analysis that it’s mostly canola oil.
            With that out of the way, I’d also like to suggest that there’s nothing wrong with using canola oil in your product, however having a “secret formula” obviously entails having people speculate about what’s in that secret formula, and responding with hostility and threats is completely unnecessary and unprofessional. You can’t claim you don’t comment on your secret formula and then do just that in threatening anyone who does.

          • Bodie

            Sounds a lot like Louis Lerner. “I did nothing illegal.”……”Ms. Lerner, did you intentionally stonewall applications seeking tax exemption status based on the applicants political affiliation?”……”My counsel has advised me that I have not waived my constitutional rights under the 5th amendment, and on his advice I will decline to answer any question on the subject matter of this hearing.” Trey Gowdy called her out good for that.

          • Bill

            “Secret formulas” are a bulwark of industry , see Coke, McDonalds and KFC as examples. Sure they aren’t using alien substances not of this planet (or maybe they are, given how they taste and what they do to humans), but don’t think it’s easy to get private, proprietary information from a company.

          • The Brigadier

            Look the “secret” in recipes in foods and other compounds isn’t just identifying the ingredients, but determining the ratios used. Any cook or chemist will tell you that. This guy gave us 75% of that compound that is clearly stated on the patent label submitted. Its above these messages, did only a few people read it?

          • Bill

            It’s like anything else: regardless of which “side” a person is on, 90% of what they hear is pops and static, 9 percent is taken out of context, and 1% might actually hit grey matter.

          • Bill

            and the special sauce is actually based on tarter sauce.

          • Beyondbreakeventrading

            I have to agree. I doubt the product is all canola oil, just 98%. That’s business. Still, you have to question the sanity of a company that doesn’t just shrug it off and say, we don’t say what’s in our special sauce, and if you have the guts to run your guns with just canola oil, good luck to you.

            Their response reeks of dishonesty. Canola oil, that’s my conclusion.

          • 6.5x55Swedish

            I doubt it is just canola but if it is I see why people are angry. As long as it works (but if it is jsut canola then they will have a hard time selling it).

          • The Brigadier

            Read the label – it says 3 vegetable oils not one of which exceeds 25% of the mix. If each is 25% then there is 25% of the volume left for different compounds, like a fourth vegetable oil or maybe a synthetic oil.

          • 6.5x55Swedish

            It seem like they removed that line from the bottle over a year ago. Perhaps it wasn’t needed.

          • No it does not say that—-

          • Bubba Rick

            Ok best by date then……

          • Tess T Kohls

            It’s next to the salad-dressing recipes on the back of the FireClean bottle.

          • wzrd1

            Let’s say that I’m dubious that it’s canola oil. The patent says three vegetable oils with a smoke point over 200 degrees, so it’s likely several vegetable oils and no clue if any solvent was added.

            Want to finally put the issue to bed?? Send a sample of the oil to a chemical lab for analysis.

          • 6.5x55Swedish

            They used to have at least. They may have removed it on the later bottles which would be strange. Why put it there to start with if it wasn’t needed? As far as I know they have not changed the formula. Look it up, it is even mentioned in this video and there are a lot of forums talking about it if you google.

            /watch?v=abBKYE8lP7o

        • Limousine Liberal

          In the age of the internet, any moron with a keyboard can all of a sudden write about guns for a living. Actual knowledge on the subject is optional.

          • Mrninjatoes

            The bad writers don’t last very long. As with anything, the good ones usually rise to the top. It’s fun watching your cognitive dissonance bleed all over this post.

          • Limousine Liberal

            It’s clear that “cognitive dissonance” is a phrase that you read somewhere and thought was cool but don’t totally comprehend.

          • Mrninjatoes

            Oh burn Mrninjatoes! You strike me as a person that has spent a small fortune on Fireclean.

          • Limousine Liberal

            Not enough to miss. Just started using it a few months ago. It cleans up the guts of my suppressed ARs like nothing else, though. The pistons on my P7s wipe clean, too. Whatever it ends up being, it’s pretty badass.

          • Mrninjatoes

            NO question, it does work. I just can’t wait to try out some rapeseed oil.

          • Limousine Liberal

            Yeah, the worst that can happen is your weapon doesn’t run well and you wipe it off. I wouldn’t try it on your carry piece, though.

          • MichaelZWilliamson

            Rapeseed, corn, olive and rapeseed.

          • Reef Blastbody

            You said “rapeseed” twice….

          • MichaelZWilliamson

            I LIKE rapeseed.

          • DAN V.

            ::Fireclean rep detected::

          • Mrninjatoes

            You have the fancy science degrees and your two semesters of Organic Chemistry. What are your thoughts about Fireclean, other then it being, “pretty badass”? (Industry term? I don’t remember seeing “pretty badass” in my General Chemistry, Organic Chemistry, Bio Chemistry or Physical Chemistry text books.)

          • M40

            He just invested a pile of cash in their hot-tank immersion cleaning system which looks suspiciously like a double basket deep fryer. And the added bonus… all his guns smell like french fries.

          • And what are your qualifications to make that statement?

          • Limousine Liberal

            Well, I took two semesters of organic chemistry at a small private college in PA 20yrs ago. I’m guessing that’s more than anyone else on your staff. And a doctoral degree in a differnt science. But, the only qualification I need is that I read an article on this blog entitled “Yes, it’s true, Fireclean is Crisco” citing evidence that author clearly doesn’t even understand. If he (and the rest of you) knew anything about organic chemistry you would know that concluding that and shouting it from the mountaintop with only un-repeated spectral analysis as evidence is just plain ignorant.

          • Mrninjatoes

            So you were pre-med with a bad MCAT score? What is “differnt science”?

          • Limousine Liberal

            Excellent MCAT score, actually. I read the writing on the wall — that physicians don’t make any cash anymore — and went a more lucrative direction.

          • Mrninjatoes

            Yeah? A lot of money in the “differnt science” industry? My MD friends are rolling in the cash and “female companionship”.

          • Limousine Liberal

            Did they specialize? Thanks to HMOs and PPOs GPs haven’t rolled in anything resembling currency for decades. And the implementation of ‘obamacare’ isn’t going to help them any, either.

            Then again, our definitions of “rolling in cash” could be quite a bit different.

          • Mrninjatoes

            Because they saw the writing on the wall, they specialized. Obamacare was ironically, bad legislation coughed up by “Limousine Liberals”.

          • M

            Most people specialize. The age of GPs is over and the new healthcare system is pushing NPs and PAs to take over primary care. The new bread and butter physician specialty is the hospitalist.

            At my hospital, they earn ~$250k and have two weeks of work and two weeks off (with one week paid time off) every month. Hours are not bad either, They round at 8am and are out the door by 3pm

          • The Brigadier

            Why did you come in here?. You must be terribly bored.

          • supergun

            Did they pay you for this?

          • Mrninjatoes

            No. Pay me for what? I am just a super grumpy gunsmith who hates to see people get scammed.

          • supergun

            Just my dry sense of humor. You got one also, I like it. I agree with you,,,,I will just stick to Hopps? What do you think?

          • Mrninjatoes

            Truth be told, I use Fireclean to clean my Ar-15’s. After cleaning, I degrease with Alcohol and Lube them up with MPRO-7. I am going to watch this unfold because someone will do more testing and get the formula. It is probably rapeseed oil with a drop of ethanoic acid. I may start cleaning my guns with rapeseed oil. And you? Hoppes works very well.

          • supergun

            Seems like a lot of work doing all of that. But who knows the answers. I think I will stick with the products that has been around awhile. I haven’t heard of Fireclean before all of this, and if it is Crisco, I think I will by pass it. Now if it was the only lubricate left during a zombie uprising, I sure as hell would use it, because my Colt AR would not be sitting around collecting dust. P.S. What do you think about the Taurus PT 111 G2 40 cal. if you could buy one less than $200 new? Without the bottle of Crisco.

          • Did you read the Sugg patent?

          • Ah hah well I beg to differ I have taken chemistry in High School and college. As a professor I taught computer science to college students as well as employees at Winchester Olin in Alton, IL. This was under contract with the college.
            This was my second job with my first as a full time police officer. Police at night teach during the day.
            I attended the University of Arkansas and the University of Illinois at Champaign Urbana.
            We also have two other professors on the TFB writing staff. Before you toss that ignorance insult you might want to know the experience of those you’re speaking to.

          • Tracy G

            I guess he assumed you we only one dimensional since you deal with guns. Oops. Wonder when people will figure out that some of us are almost or are renaissance men. It cracks me up when people make assumptions about me only to learn that their assumptions are misplaced.

          • Mrninjatoes

            Phil W gets it DONE!

          • Steven Alexander

            Phil for the win…

          • LOL–thanks!

          • supergun

            Are you saying it is not Crisco or part Crisco?

          • The Brigadier

            Hey lib, read the patent label above these posts. It clearly says it contains 3 vegetable oils not one of which exceeds 25% of the total mix. If M40 is right and an acetic acid vinegar comprises the other 25% you have both a cleaner and a lubricant. I presume you can read. You might want to get a magnifying glass if you have poor eyesight.

          • Jeff Heeszel

            I can assure you that my dad can beat up your dad.

          • Bill

            Oh come on, one of the numerous unintended consequences of the internet, along with the explosion of the porn industry, is that everyone has a platform to spout whatever they want, to a public that may not be the greatest at critical thinking.

            …and I can post my resume and CV, but if I have to EVERYBODY has to….and 90% of them will be fictitious….

          • Ben

            Who says that the explosion of the porn industry is an unintended consequence?

          • MichaelZWilliamson

            I think we need to see your birth certificate. 😉

          • Bill

            Can you read Nigerian? Or any of those languages where some of the letters are upside down, have slashes through them or a couple dots on top?

          • MichaelZWilliamson

            Yes. Are you a prince with some missing inheritance? Please understand I don’t have time to waste on any amounts under $10 mil.

          • Dan

            I designed the international space station. It runs on canola oil

          • Beyondbreakeventrading

            “…one of the numerous unintended consequences of the internet..is that everyone has a platform to spout whatever they want, to a public that may not be the greatest at critical thinking.”

            You missed the point of having an internet. Inasmuch as most of what you consume is just propaganda prepared by the Main Stream Media for consumption by that non-critical thinking public, it’s critically important for people who want to be exposed to the truth to be able to turn to a venue that ISN’T controlled by just 5 or 6 big corporations. Give me the internet anyday, I’ll check my own facts.

          • Jeff Heeszel

            Because in the age of the internet, any moron with a keyboard can all of a sudden write comments telling the world they are an enormous d… uh wet blanket.

        • MarkVShaney

          We’ll need a HP Model 6890 Series II Gas Chromatograph and a 5973 mass spectrometer to end this argument right now.

        • M40

          The only ones using “hyperbole” were the FireClean folks in their ridiculous statement. It was VERY telling, as it used debate tactics that don’t actually address the issue, but which distract from it entirely. These are the tactics of those who have already LOST an argument, and are grasping at straws.

          Speaking of straws… they used “straw man” tactics by distorting the original allegations leveled against their product, and then used those distortions to provide some semblance of denial. Allegations were made that their product is similar in composition to some common vegetable oils. They then denied “rebranding”, but NOT the original allegations.

          Argumentum ad Hominem – (argument against the person) – A common fallacy in which someone argues against a position or claim by assailing the proponent of it rather than the premise. The FireClean statement NEVER actually addressed the premise, or denied the allegations. Instead they claimed that the allegations were “false or misleading”, a commonly used term which means either/or (ie: could be interpreted as misleading if ANY part of the original allegation is false). They also pretend that the accusations are being leveled by “competitors”. This is a lame attempt to paint their predicament as an overly aggressive marketing smear.

          Argumentum ad Baculinum – (Baculum is Latin for “stick”) – Fallacy that occurs when threat of force is made, either implicitly or explicitly. – The FireClean statement made repeated veiled threats of legal action by using legal terms like “libelous” and “defamatory”. They go on to claim, “we will defend our good name”, “using the full measure of remedies available to us”.

          Argumentum ad Captandum – A specious or unsound argument coming from popular acceptance rather than fact. (literally, “for catching the common herd”). FireClean spewed out a litany of those who presumably use their product. It was a lame attempt to pretend that the “who’s who” of the shooting world somehow back their claim. The fact that they’ve sold it to SOME military, SOME agencies, or SOME competition shooters does not mean that ALL military, ALL agencies, and ALL competition shooters therefore must back them.

          Argumentum ad Populum – A fallacy pandering to popular passion or sentiment that argues an opponent “is out of step” with that which is popular. Also known as a “Bandwagon Fallacy”. FireClean provided the following statement; “We are proud to be of service to those that bear arms in defense of our freedom, those that serve to keep us safe in our communities, and those that carry firearms for self defense”.
          It was at this point where you’re supposed to jump out of your seat, salute the flag and abandon all arguments against their company. Apparently those that question this product or its price-gouging markups are somehow anti-military, anti-freedom, anti-public safety, etc.

          So we have FireClean employing just about every common debate tactic that can possibly be used by those who’ve already LOST a debate. Smells fishy… or maybe that’s just the smell of old canola oil?

          • Sgt. Stedenko

            I work as an environmental engineer and when we want to see what’s in an oil we don’t just run the IR fingerprint analysis, but also a GC/MS on the volatiles and semi-volatiles. The IR fingerprint is only part of the picture.

            Of course, feel free to attack the messenger when it doesn’t fit into your 1° sphere of how things work in the real world.

            Never bought a drop of FC and would never. I’m in the diesel synthetic camp.

          • M40

            1) If you have the capability to test FireClean with better methodology, then go ahead… nobody’s stopping you. We’d all love to see the results.

            2) I never “attacked” you at all (unless you work for FireClean)? I merely pointed out that the tactics employed in their response were deceptive and contrived, using tired, old debate tricks.

          • Sgt. Stedenko

            My bad.
            I thought you were directing those ad hominem explanations at me.
            I’m just tired of drive by journalism and no I want be wasting my $300 on the analyses. That’s a lot of range time and ammo.

          • The Brigadier

            Ever cleaned your rifle with synthetic diesel. Did you have to add horse urine to that to also stop the smoking? I look forward to trying out Cummins new AR.

          • Bill

            That should be required reading for anyone who ever reads a blog, and they should be required to pass a test on it before submitting a comment. I pronounce you King of the Interweb.

          • M40

            A decent grasp of syllogism, maketh not a king… but thanks for the kudos!

            When I see one or two logical fallacies leveled in a forum, it’s usually not an attempt at deception. Typically, the person in question has a poor grasp of logic.

            HOWEVER, when I see MANY illogical syllogisms dropped in a single piece… all woven in a smooth and crafty manner… it is a sure sign of the following:

            A) The writer is an adept orator, and a seasoned liar.

            B) He has no remaining facts to support his case.

            C) He has already lost the debate, and is trying to carry the day with deception and ruse.

            It is HIGHLY likely that the response from FireClean was written by an attorney… the kind they make lawyer jokes about.

          • Bill

            I wasn’t going to mention anything about lawyer-speak……This whole thing is a misunderstanding that would have been prevented if the consumer did a little research and was more knowledgeable about lubricants…..;)

          • Willard

            Nice debunkingof their argument and reply I enjoyed reading this comment very much

          • LasciviousJoyMonkey

            M40 Your rebuttal was concise, clear and to the point and sums up my own thoughts and many others exactly. kiddo’s friend.

          • Kivaari

            Great points. It was like a response from a politician.

          • alex

            Dude it’s popcorn oil you add beta carotene to prevent oxidation look at popcorn oil it’s orange

        • The Brigadier

          Read the label sarge, it says it is a mix of vegetable oils not one of which comprises more than 25% of the mix.

      • Tess T Kohls

        Are there salad-dressing recipes on the bottles of FireClean? If not, then it must not be veggie oil…. case closed!

      • MRHapla

        LOL just had a flash of a guy coating his tacticool AR with Crisco, like it was Cosmoline

      • billyoblivion

        Careful using Crisco–you might wind up with the BATF charging you for a barrel that doesn’t meet the minimum length requirements.

        After all, it’s shortening.

    • Joshua

      Your new article is even more damning IMO.

      • Rick O’Shay

        I agree. To meet the standard of libel, FireClean has to be a product that is NOT canola oil while folks are claiming it is. Nowhere in that press release do they deny it is canola oil, just “these are all the people who use it who like it…” very much an appeal to authority. Claiming that it is not a relabeled or repackaged product simply means they didn’t go to the grocery store, buy up all the Crisco canola, and pour it into new bottles and resell it. There’s nothing that says they didn’t get a supplier who makes and sells canola oil wholesale, and buy their product. Maybe they added a bit of motor oil, who knows. But there is NOTHING in that statement that says, “our product is NOT canola oil.”
        It’s fine if it is. FrogLube is essentially just coconut oil with some mint scent added. I have nothing against natural products, but snake oil marketing that claims miraculous results is a massive red flag to me that keeps me from buying products.

        • Mark

          Is there a gun lube made from actual snake oil? Just curious.

          • BattleshipGrey

            If you don’t find a patent for it, we should probably set up a business meeting. 🙂

          • Rick O’Shay

            We should get on that….

          • Sianmink

            Sadly not made from real snakes. It’s kind of like Baby Oil.

          • That’s just an old late 1800s statement referring to traveling salesmen selling cures for everything. Not real–

          • Flounder

            Forget frog lube! Here is SNAKE LUBE!
            Some animals *may* have been injured in the making of this product.

        • J.T.

          I think FrogLube might have an additive to help prevent corrosion as well.

        • Flounder

          You take the cake for comment of the day on this one. Most useful post on this page.

      • I agree it is very damning in my opinion.

    • time for a crisco vs. fireclean multi-thousand round test and maybe just to spice things up you could use some super scary corrosive ammo.

    • n0truscotsman
    • Jake Barnes

      Andrew – just for interest sake, did you get spectral analysis done on a well known gun oil, such as hoppes? This would provide a “control” or “benchmark” to compare the spectral analysis results of fireclean with something that people generally consider a high end product.

      For all we know, the spectral differences between canola oil and hoppes are also minimal to the point of being indistinguishable.

      • Flounder

        I SECOND THIS!!!!! It would be awesome to see what the majority of our gun oils actually are. Although it may land you in unpleasant water with a lot of companies. But please do it if you are at all able to!

      • While I’d love to see this, too, Andrew got the IR S of FireClean and Crisco as a favor, so I think we shouldn’t pressure him too much to ask for more.

    • Limousine Liberal

      The agenda is not much of a secret to a discerning reader: sensationalism. It sells print…or in this case ‘clicks’.

      • Andrew Tuohy

        You caught me! I’m just trying to increase revenue through all those advertisements on my blog. Oh wait, there aren’t any.

      • In my case, my pay has nothing to do with how popular an article I write is. It’s totally independent, per-article, not per-view.

        • Limousine Liberal

          That may be, but the success of the blog is directly related to whether or not you will see another payday, no? And in turn directly related to advertising revenue? Unless I’m misunderstanding the business model and TFB is government funded or something?

          • This blog is successful and not likely to dissolve soon. I have no monetary incentive to post clickbait, which is why I post mostly news and historical research.

      • nadnerbus

        I’m just curious, do you find this information to be not worth publishing, or do you think it is false? I am not a chemical engineer either, but I have seen no rebuttal from anyone explaining how the information FB has published is false. And if it is true, then it is hardly click bait.

      • n0truscotsman

        Even if that were true, its better than selling 1 oz containers of canola oil marked up 10,000% as “super operator tier 1 juice!”…

        If FC’s completely illogical, appealing, and emotional response didn’t paint the picture in crayon color for ya, then I am not inclined to break it down any further. Their response was pretty telling.

    • TBW

      FireClean never directly denied the allegation that their “secret” product is merely canola oil which lends veracity to the thought the product is merely french fry grease.

      But if you think its only canola oil you will be sued!

      Cripes…

  • Sir Arcot Ramathorn

    The best part is that they will have to disclose the super-secret-squirrel formulation in order to prevail on any sort of defamation claims. And by merely claiming libel/slander they invite the wrath of the Streisand Effect.

  • MrEllis

    The same exact oil can be refined differently. Sure you could chuck rapeseed oil used for cooking in a weapon and rattle off round. The difference is how well refined it is compared tot he product designed for a gun. In theory they are the exact same thing, in practice they may not be. Most guns are not used in situations where it has to be 100% every time all the time, so go wild. I’m using something that smells like mint, so I can’t talk. But I have been known to blast carb cleaner or WD-40 now and then…

    I don’t lube enough guns to make a huge difference between spending five bucks for two ounces as opposed to 1 buck. Remember this though, if you buy a huge bottle of rapeseed oil or any plant based oil, the cooking varieties can and will go rancid after a period of time due to impurities left in them. Different oils are also refined at different levels.

    • True and you make a good point. Refinement does make a difference.

      • MrEllis

        A good way to point out the difference is, have you ever seasoned a cast iron pan? You basically burn vegetable oil on it to build up carbon, the same oil some folks are claiming is good for guns. Cooking oils have a smoking point, even high smoking point oils can be used to season cast iron. Alton Brown has an excellent method, of course, that involved the cleaning cycle on an oven and the same oil people are speaking of using. The more refined an oil is the higher it’s smoking point. So even the same rapeseed oils can be refined to a higher level.

  • mzungu

    “Full measure”…. Hahaha…Careful, now. He might sue ya for patent violation for using canola as gun lube.

  • R H

    I’ll stick with my Ballistol. According to its MSDS:

    “Ballistol contains medicinal grade mineral oil, alkaline salts of oleic acid, several alcohols, Benzyl Acetate and an oil from
    vegetal seeds. The mineral oil is unchlorinated and conforms to the specifications of US Pharmacopeia XX….Most corrosion inhibiting lubricants can only protect against normal oxidation. They do so by covering up the surface, which they are supposed to protect, and prevent contact with water and air. Due to its alkalinity Ballistol can also protect against galvanic corrosion, acidic corrosion and salt water corrosion. Ballistol contains oxygen binders. They make the oxygen, contained in water or air, unavailable for oxidation. Due to its low surface tension, Ballistol is capable of creeping into the smallest openings even against gravity. Accordingly, Ballistol provides not only passive but also active protection against corrosion. However, Ballistol is not a permanent coating or paint. Its protective effect will be the stronger the more often it is re-applied.”

    • R H

      And also of importance is the Non-Toxicity portion of the MSDS that states Ballistol was not shown to be toxic to rats or rabbits, and does not contain ingredients that are considered hazardous, harmful if swallowed, or know to cause cancer.

      But after reading this I’d assume Fireclean would probably be pretty safe as well…

    • dshield55

      Thanks for sharing. I was hoping somebody had the MSDS for FireClean they could share.

  • 2wheels

    Makes me want to order some of this stuff, because I have access to a handheld spectrometer…

    • Tiru Maru

      BREAK-FREE CLP was approved by the U.S. Military to the MIL-
      L-63460 specification, and since that time has been continuously
      used as the primary maintenance product by the U.S. Army, Navy
      and U.S. Air Force for cleaning, lubricating and preserving all
      weapons…tanks, mortars, rifles, machine guns, or guns on
      battleships.

      Since their introduction, MIL-L-63460 and BREAK-FREE CLP
      have become recognized by Militaries around the world as the
      standards by which to ensure the maximum performance and
      protection of weapons and weapon systems, and both have been
      adopted by 20 countries throughout the free world, including
      NATO, which has given the specification the NATO number S-758.

      If it is good enough for battleships, it is good enough for me…

  • Mark-in-Indy

    Being from the food industry, I know a little bit about Canada oil low acid(canola). IMO, as a foodstuff ingredient I’m not a fan, it gives food a broccoli/fishy flavor. As a lubricant oil, we used it during WWII in maritime applications because of it’s resistance to water wash-off(a plus). As with all vegetable oils, it begins to oxidize immediately when exposed to air with a substantial increase in oxidation rate after a few days. Light and heat will also increase this oxidation rate. Oxidation also generates free fatty acids and salts. Typically, oxidized oils become odorous and thick(just TRY to scrape oxidized soy oil off of equipment).
    Good or bad, I’m stickin’ with CLP. It’s been working for me for about 40 years now.
    Just my 2 cents. As you were.

    • Ripley

      I’d also expect poor winter performance from vegetable oils. CLP was designed to handle every climate on Earth.

  • xerodown

    I use and like fireclean for some applications. That being said they have some of the worst PR I have ever seen from a company. They routinely don’t know how to answer questions or how to put out a decent press release. They also have the worst bottles I have ever used.

    Thanks Andrew Tuohy for doing the test and the write up. There is some BS floating around about negative reviews and agendas. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate you telling it like it is!

  • dshield55

    I talked with an executive at a 100+ year old chemical company several years ago. He said they rarely file patents, and it’s for this exact reason. Rather than put it out there publicly for the whole world to see what they do, they’d rather just keep their formulations and processes a trade secret and profit from it for much longer than the 20 year patent protections.

  • Azril @ Alex Vostox

    I’m saying before and I’m saying it again. FireClean guys is a environmentalist hippie that loves guns, money and attention but hates pollution, truth and competition..

  • Joshua

    And of course LAV is all over Facebook calling out those who oppose Fireclean with tons of fancy super secret tier one awesome cause BBQ godness.

    You know the whole, if your not Delta you can’t have an opinion. Despite the fact that Larry retired around 2004 and all and thus never used Fireclean or any product he pimps hard in ant combat role.

    • 11B

      That’s… sad. I like LAV but he’s clearly fallen for the hype-train. As a former infantry guy, I’ve used CLP forever and it works fine but other guys used any number of chemicals including FireClean. They all work fine. LAV should be pimping the “use whatever works” philosophy.

      • M1911

        “use whatever works” doesn’t put money in his bank account.

      • HKGuns

        If that were all it was it would be nary a big deal. However:

        1. He claims ignorance (which is worse?)
        2. He’s taking the money
        3. His promotional video appears to be manipulated
        4. Both he and the company are now waving the American Flag of service to our country, which is despicable

    • CommonCents

      he’s been eating too much fireclean 😉

  • TheNotoriousIUD

    I notice they aren’t denying that its just canola oil.

  • Jim Osborne

    Just an old forensic chemist here.
    Infrared spectroscopy looks good as far as identifying the bands. That being said I would have to repeat the testing to confirm the results.
    I would not base my conclusions on one technique. I would insist on GC-MS and LC-MS to look for additives. Realize that infrared spectroscopy will not see trace additives in the oil matrix and it has difficulty differentiating different long chain hydrocarbons (oils).I wouldn’t bet my reputation on these results.

    • Limousine Liberal

      Shhh. Come on, man, we’re trying to whip up a story here, can’t you see? There’s no room for actual knowledge about chemistry! Go away and take your book larnin’ with you.

      • Duck Duck Goose

        But Andrew employed the services and expert opinion of a University professor, so just stop with your silly superiority complex over your education already.

    • Hello Jim,

      Thank you for commenting. I am basing my conclusions not only on Andrew’s article, but also on the Sugg patent for FIREClean, which says it’s a combination of vegetables, primarily canola.

      • S. Maria

        Do you know which other manufacturers use vegetable oils as a percentage of the content of their gun oils? If you have reached out to other manufacturers and have statements from them or other research on their formulations, will their be a followup detailing this information? Is there a basis for not recommending vegetable oil lubricants, assuming anti-oxidants are part of the formulation?

  • Al

    Statement analysis of the response: First paragraph is a rambling non-denial in the guise of “how dare you question this”. Next four paragraphs are chest beating of their reputation. Sixth paragraph is an ineffective non- denial. Seventh paragraph is a not subdued threat of litigation. Eighth is a brief closing.
    As other posters have pointed out, if the allegation is untrue, they should simply state in one direct sentence that the product is not Canola oil.

    • Bill

      It’s the equivalent of asking a bad guy if they did it and getting “who, me? Do what?”

  • guest

    The smoking point is not the issue… but that all vegetable oils are suceptible to bacterial growth, and and many have a tendency to polymerize and gum up.

    But the biggest fiasco is selling tap water as AdvancedHydrationFormula Pro Plus, which in this case is plant oil 😀

  • Jeff Smith

    Heads up, I don’t think “rapeseed oil” is a thing. If it is, get it the hell away from me.

  • GPSrulz

    After reading all the articles and comments then watching the videos. I’ve taken all my gun oils and mixed them all together with vegetable oil, motor oil, and bacon grease. So, I’m getting the best of all worlds right? RIGHT?!?
    I don’t know, I’m no chemist.

    • Ripley

      McDonald’s will sue you for copying their special sauce.

      • GPSrulz

        If I want to run my guns really wet, I’ll throw in some KY lube.

    • n0truscotsman

      No because Froglube will “attack the other oils it is exposed to…”

      😀 (LOL!!!)

  • Gabe

    The only thing that came to mind when I heard about this is, vegetable oils go bad. Granted, most oils will last a couple off years so using this in a fun that gets used a lot it’s probably not a big deal. However, if it gets stored for a long period or if someone purchases a ton of this stuff in bulk after a couple of years it is going to go bad. I have no idea if u that will cause damage to the gun but at the very least it’s going to make your safe stink.

    I don’t use this product but I do tend to buy lube in larger quantities. Does the company put expiration dates or warn against using this product for storage of firearms?

  • Sulaco

    “We have not commented on the formulation, nor will we do so now.”…..”Advanced Gun Oil is a specifically formulated, technically superior weapon reliability solution” bla bla bal, in other words you claim its a special blend of oils but will NOT state its not Crisco? Fail

  • Brett

    THIS right here is all the proof I need to stay with my old stand by, K-Y jelly.

    • Y-man

      Well, multi-use!

  • Swede

    While on the subject of unintended use – Holts Brake Parts Cleaner is absolutely phenomenal at removing the worst grit imaginable.

    We use it on the M240/GPMG machine guns after thousands of rounds and they look like new afterwards. Make sure you lube carefully since it will leave every surface absolutely bone dry.

  • Tiru Maru

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t vegetable oils gum up if they sit too long on a surface? Look at the gunk on any old stove.

    • J.T.

      They will, and they don’t protect against corrosion. It may work on a gun that was just cleaned and is actively being used, but it is not something you want to put on a gun for long term storage.

  • huh_monkey

    I like the assorted flavors, I like the smell of buttered toast or garlic bread when I’m shooting at cans or terrorists that look like cans in my back yard.

  • Adam aka eddie d.

    An interesting -at least in my opinion- datapoint, guys:
    rape(seed)/canola oil is really not a new thing when it comes to steel.
    I’ve worked for an old, well known European factory for a while, they make locomotive engines and train bogies.
    For most of the threading jobs, lower speed lathe work and in some cases for drilling,
    they still use rapeseed oil and mutton tallow. Yup, vegetable oil and sheep’s fat.
    And we’re talking about a company with a serious budget here.

    Another example for using rapeseed oil is a very knowledgeable engineer I know,
    who has a BSc in heat treatment technology.
    He’s using rapeseed oil for some threading jobs, and for all of his quenching,
    when heat treating oil quenchable steels (that’s refined rapeseed oil, especially for heat treatment though).

    Why you ask?
    Because these materials still work, don’t cost an arm and a leg per gallon,
    they are environmentally friendly, and won’t cause lung cancer after a few years
    working with them.
    Compared to the fumes of burning synthetic and mineral oils, here the worst thing that can happen to you is that you’ll end up smelling like French fries.

    Coconut oil for instance is a very good natural oil when it comes to heat tolerance,
    it’s one of the most heat tolerant natural oils alongside peanut oil.

    There are a lot of great natural solutions guys, the problem is with bogus,
    exaggerating snake oil type marketing.
    Two wholly different subjects.

  • aka_mythos

    Does Andrew have any stake in this?-Fireclean seems to be acting as if he’s a competitor. That these claims are outright lies and fabrications. Fireclean’s response seems insincere when it refers to a spectrographic analysis as not “relevant”… That type of test has the greatest degree of certainty in determining composition for unknown substances.

    I don’t think it matters if it is vegetable oil. Plenty of products are repurposed as new products and marked up. Canola oil is cheap because other cooking oils are cheap; Fireclean is not because other gun oils are not.

    • n0truscotsman

      Andrew is precisely the type of person I like seeing in the firearms world: a skeptic. Somebody who isn’t swayed by marketing and personal anecdotes.

      The level of butthurt he has caused some never ceases to amaze me. I love it.

    • Ben

      It was one of their competitors who started the “FC is Crisco” thing, which is why they are saying that.

      Andrew acted on the rumor and set out to verify it.

  • Christian Hedegaard-Schou

    My issue with using Canola oil for firearms lubrication is that 1.) Canola oil, and almost all vegetable oils dry out and polymerize under oxidation, which means they form plasticy “gums” and “varnishes”. They do not stay in an oil form and 2.) Vegetable oils for firearms use have ZERO anti-wear/extreme pressure additives which are necessary for sliding parts to function together with minimum wear.

    These are the last types of oils you want near your firearm.

  • ant1248

    All they say is “Fireclean works”. You never said it didn’t. I look forward to people testing vegetable oil as gun lube.

  • ant1248

    Anyone done a spectral analysis of Froglube?

  • n0truscotsman

    So in other words, they wont address the arguments made (that it is relabeled, rebranded canola oil), instead reverting to the appeals to authority (operators!), appeals to patriotism, and obfuscation through marketing terms.

    Yep and Ill go out of my way to encourage everybody I know (some 100 odd people) to not ever buy your product. Its “into the snakeoil bucket” you go, alongside froglube.

  • Mike@kineti-tech

    I think we need to settle this once and for all. Who’s going to fry up some FireClean tator-totts!?!?

  • gunsandrockets

    I note that the FireCLEAN response carefully avoids any denial that canola oil is one of the ingredients of their product. I take from that non-denial denial that the basic accusation is accurate, that FireCLEAN is primarily canola oil.

  • USMC03Vet

    So the “defense” is to name drop a bunch of inept government agencies pissing away money? Wow.
    This response is even more damning than if they did nothing because not only does FireCLEAN not deny the allegation, but just shows how tax payer money is being wastefully spent.

    • Grindstone50k

      You know every time some firearms company says that stuff, it only means that one guy in the unit personally bought it to try it out and the company shouts “that counts!”

  • Adam

    The best part is, when you do this and figure out that it’s probably not Crisco, close, but no cigar… it will be too late. They can prove loss of sales due directly to your words… To dig yourself deeper is not the smartest idea.

  • Michael R. Zupcak

    As expected: doubling down on the BS rhetoric with a healthy serving of LE agency alphabet soup. Although I wouldn’t be surprised with any government agency spending $15/oz. for something worth only $0.15/oz.

  • RobertF

    Man if they are not careful i can already see the class action suit a mile away. I bet someone could start a kick starter to fund an independent laboratory test it. Would be an interesting and entertaining spectacle to say the least. Mean while i will stick with my CLP and hoppies 9.

    • RocketScientist

      What exactly would that class-action suit be for? What damages have customers who bought FireClean suffered as a result of FireClean’s actions? They were sold a gun lube that claims to be a gun lube and is, in fact, a gun lube. Unless Fire Clean advertised the product by saying “This is definitely NOT just canola oil, or a mixture of vegetable oils!” then they never really lied, mislead, etc.

  • Phillip Cooper

    Seriously, if it works, who cares?

    • M1911

      If it works, then go to the grocery store and buy a bottle of canola oil instead. It will be a fraction of the cost and you won’t be putting money in the pocket of a huckster.

    • Don Ward

      If it works, then FireCLEAN should have no concern about the general recipe of their product being known by a discerning gun owning community.

      Bwahahahaha. I almost typed that with a straight face.

    • James

      Because people were willing to buy into the hype that it’s somehow better than the rest and they paid $20 a bottle for a tiny amount. $14 at Walmart will get you a gallon of name brand vegetable oil.

    • n0truscotsman

      Im not going to argue against that. It works very well actually. I obtained a free bottle of FC and liked it, especially for cleaning and my ARs. My piston ARs especially love it for some reason.

      The concern I have is that gun owners are paying unnecessarily higher for a product that is characteristically very inexpensive to purchase in bulk.

      I’ve tried almost every gun lube known to man, like SLIP2000, Froglube, FC, FP10 and each had their own traits that I liked very much (some I didn’t), but the problem was justifying the price when compared to commercial lubricants for automotive fleets that perform just as good if not better. Not a issue for me personally, but I try to be as pragmatic and empathetic as I can.

      Having run through classes with high volumes of rounds and high heat, I still have yet to find something to best wheel bearing grease though. It takes everything to the woodshed.

  • Limousine Liberal

    “I am not qualified to spectral analysis results, but I take Andrew’s word for it.”

    hahahaha…neither is he! He is, however, qualified to wear flip-flops at the range like Charlie in a rice patty…and not much else.

  • Mr. Molon Labe

    Well I guess you can use fire clean to deep fry some french fries, anyway not a total lose.

  • Bubba Rick

    What a rip off….

  • matthew_carberry

    If it is indeed rapeseed and other high-smoke point oils it should be useful in “seasoning” cast iron cookware. So it’s got that going for it, which is nice.

  • JustAnotherGuy

    Page 16 of the patent application pretty much gives it away. The vegetable oil combination in example 14 on that page calls for a 3 oil mix. 1/3 Rice Bran Oil. 1/3 Walnut Oil. AND either 1/3 Sesame Oil or 1/3 Soybean Oil. Not 100% sure, but it looks to be one of these combos that provides the best results.

  • Eric Lawrence

    Doesn’t the Sugg patent say “about 25 percent by volume” twice when referencing the amount of vegetable oil FIREClean might consist of?

    So FIREClean may be only 25 percent vegetable oil, right? Not 100 percent out of the bottle oil?

  • Limonata

    IMHO I don’t care. If it works and it is less toxic or biodegradable I will use it.
    Crisco Solid, Canola oil and Coconut oil have been used for many years on high speed or high temperature food processing or medical equipment and in the ball bearings of fire safety vents. The are often mixed with other oils for stabilization reason or to enhance a property. This nothing new. If you ever purchase oil for your SOHO paper shredder, it is Canola oil.
    Many Miracle oils be for guns or other hobbies are simply repackaged. Again, nothing new.
    The only test I care about is it works. Let us see a long term test of FireClean vs Pure Canola oil and see the difference.

  • MRHapla

    Seems like a slippery slope issue, almost oil and water to reconcile. I hope an interested third party can grease the wheels to a slick resolution.

    • RickH

      That was smooooooooooooth……………

      • MRHapla

        TY. TYVM.

  • Woody

    I’m looking at it this way. I have never used said product but will try it on my salad this weekend.

  • RickH

    I’ve never used it, but for those that say “I don’t care what it is, because it works”, you should care because you’re paying a pumped up price for an item that’s available down at the grocery store. I can pretty much buy what I want, I will just not pay that much for any gun oil.

    • n0truscotsman

      Thats what is amusing about this entire debacle. The argument was that it was basically marked up canola oil, and the defenders of the product are saying “well, it works as advertised!”.

      That is what we call a “Red Herring” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring

      Its an ‘argument’ that FC has resorted to, as well as “Soldier Systems” and its numerous other defenders. Not impressed a single bit. I hope it encourages more gun owners to be a bit more skeptical when they buy products so they aren’t being ripped off by opportunists and their apologists.

      • Bill

        Maybe this will cause someone to call the ATF……if FC were rumored to be going off the market people would be lined up outside Cabela’s with tanker trucks, then they’d pump it into tanks built next to the vault with the 2,000 AR lowers, 40 cubic feet of PMags, and 15 tons of .22LR.

        We’uns don’t place much stock in common sense or critical thinkin’

  • Shmoe

    Wait, are you saying that Andrew is actually the legendary Rick Taylor!? That’s unpossible!

    BTW, have you heard that if you put a record needle to Rick Taylor’s nipple, it plays the Beach Boys Pet Sounds?

  • Yang Jackson

    Hilarious… I’ve been using a $3 tub of lithium grease and straight up canola/veg oil to lube all my firearms for as long as I can remember. I don’t waste my cash on that BS when I got ammo to buy. As for cleaners go, a $3 bottle of Natural Orange cuts carbon better than Hoppes #9 any day of the week…. And you get 20x as much for $12 less! Don’t believe the hype… Y’all just pissing your money away. As an M.D., I’ve got more than enough disposable income to buy all that nonsense, but I couldn’t respect myself if I did. And to the liberal limo… I seriously doubt medicine was an option for you. But I am curious, what science did you end up in?

  • Frank

    Canola oil? Not canola oil? I don’t care. When it’s time to buy another bottle of lubricant it’s more about what’s available, and what doesn’t destroy my sinuses with a harsh smell.

  • Tassiebush

    I just wish I’d known there were such cheap and convenient alternatives to spermaceti and southern elephant seal oil. It would have saved me a lot of effort.

  • chrismalllory

    Black powder shooters often use solid Crisco for lubing their firearms. Black powder and petroleum products don’t play well together. I have used it to lube patches, to seal cap and ball cylinders, and to lube the weapon after cleaning.

  • Jamie Clemons

    “We have not commented on the formulation, nor will we do so now. ” In other words yes it is canola oil. Thanks I know what to use on my gun now.

  • Beyondbreakeventrading

    “We would like to address recent false OR (weasel word) misleading allegations that range from simply misguided to false, defamatory, and libelous.”

    These attacks have been made by competitors and others that paint our product in a false or misleading light. (Well which is it, false or not? If false, why add the weasel word “misleading”). (I wasn’t aware this blog was a competitor. Where are the facts supporting this allegation. More importantly, if it’s false and you don’t use canola oil, just say so.)

    “The allegations do not focus on actual performance or relevant tests, and draw a misleading picture.” (It was admitted it might work fine, the allegation is it’s mostly cheap canola oil and you are gouging your customers. Changing the subject makes you look guilty.)

    I won’t quote the rest of this greasy non-answer, I’ll just provide a translation: “How dare you accuse us of overcharging our customers, everybody who is anybody uses Fireclean so you must submit to group think or we will sue.”

    Conclusion: Their response is a tacit admission and a threat to sue. LOL

  • Beyondbreakeventrading

    “It has been used to win multiple National Championships in Pistol, 3 Gun, Sniping, and many other competitive shooting disciplines.”

    Olympics Award Ceremony: “I want to thank the manufacturers of Fireclean for helping me win this gold medal, without their lube I couldn’t shoot straight.” LOL

    • stephen

      LMAO! Seriously I’m laughing so hard I’m crying.

  • Beyondbreakeventrading

    “It is also in use by elements of the FBI, DHS, DEA, CBP, Secret Service, Department of State, various intelligence agencies as well as numerous State and Local Law Enforcement Agencies.”
    “Elements” of all those federal agencies huh? WTF does that mean, your brother in-law works for the FBI and uses the bottles you gave him? I’ve been shooting on federal ranges for 26 years and I’ve never seen anything other than Hoppes and Break-Free. Not one bottle of anything else.

  • Where there’s smoke…

    So Canola oil smokes when shooting? So a smoking gun…is…the…smoking…gun?

  • Guido FL

    AR’s by their design are very dirty thus I shoot my AK’s much more often due to the fast and easy clean up procedure.

  • OldOldLawyer

    If there really is some secret formula and Fireclean is being the victim of false claims, then all they need to do is file a simple slander lawsuit. They will get all their attorneys fees paid, possibly all lost profits, and even punitive damages from everyone making false allegations against them. If they are a scam, then they will certainly not sue anyone….so have they filed any lawsuit or are they just trying to say it works? Nuff said for me….

  • Bdpenn

    Well, in that case, I suggest peanut oil. It has a higher viscosity and much higher heat range, however it is expensive in comparison to conola oil. You can fry your turkey and clean and lub your gun all at the same time.

    • markej4801

      Perhaps I’ll dip my bolt in my turkey frier this Thanksgiving. 🙂

      • Bdpenn

        Be careful to bite into the leg and not the bolt. I’m sure they’ll both smell equally appetizing!

  • Rick

    I love the takeeaway from the article: try the alternative and see if there’s a difference. If there is, stop using the other stuff.

    Simple, empirical, and no outrage needed.

  • Iblis

    Take some Fireclean oil and cook something in it then eat it. That will be the true test of what it really is. I don’t use it, just recently heard of it and I have no “dog in this fight”. Thank you for the truth. It is a rare commodity these days.

  • Paul Scarborough

    Most high end gun lubricants and cleaners are just rebranded forms of existing lubricants and solvents.
    I have used a cleaner / lube that bench rest shooters have relied on for years. It’s a homemade mix of hopes and a micro penatrating lube based on kerosene and oil.
    What it boils down to is marketing. I need to convince you that it is worth what you are about to spend for it.
    The lube I use I picked because it was used by the military guys for years. And when the gov decided to stop using it (because they developed their own inferior CLP) the troops demanded it back. And in the mean time the guy who made it supplied it to deployed troops for free at his own expense until the gov revised it’s actions.
    So just because Fireclean didn’t tell you what was in their lube did that make it a bad product? Evidently not because people were swearing by it….
    I use what I use because it works for me. From my own testing, if a buddy has something better, I’ll try it and make up my own mind.
    Just my 2 cents

  • onederer

    It’s been known that for years, rapeseed oil has been used for commercial lubrication, in factory productions.

  • C. A. S.

    Patent has been out for all to see and I have had a copy for over a year and it has been there for anyone who cared to look. Fireclean was not trying to hide anything. That being said, it appears to be a blend of many different and highly refined vegetable based oils that have very high flash point (read the patent). Refining of the oils is the key as particulate in them lowers the flash point. It works just like seasoning a cast iron skillet. No alchemy or magic there, just simple science. Metal heats up, opens it’s pores and the oil is drawn into the surface, creating a slick coating on a molecular level. Is it worth the price? That is up to the individual consumer, however it does work as advertised. If you want to go into your kitchen, spend the time to highly refine vegetable oil and run it, go ahead. I am willing to pay for the research and cost of production as it works as advertised. Patent also refers to testing of many other popular products and the results are there for comparison.

  • James Kelly

    For those shooting black powder, it is said that lubes based on petroleum make a fouling that is more difficult to remove, than if animal or vegetable fat was used for a patch or bullet lubricant. Organic chemists might be able to comment on those curves above, but not the rest of us. I am a mere metallurgist.

  • Tim Pearce

    Their statement does not say it’s not Canola Oil. It says some allegations are false, but doesn’t specify which. Reads, to me, at least, as “Our shady business practices are our own business, not yours. Anyway, even if it’s Canola Oil, it works.”

  • smalltowndude

    I noticed there was no mention of the patent or even denial of the accusation in their response – just outrage.

  • MichaelZWilliamson

    “I know I might be shattering people’s worldview, but most, if not all,
    gun lubricants and cleaners on the market are high mark up products made
    from cheap chemicals. Nobody out there is inventing new chemicals to
    use with guns.”

    Yeah, and several high end cutlery companies’ “specially formulated steel” is off the shelf carbon steel, MAYBE with a customized quench profile. The industry is small enough no one pays to have a melt done, then the melt rolled into stock, and there really aren’t any new alloys for knives out there that didn’t already exist for some other purpose.

    This isn’t rocket surgery and shouldn’t surprise anyone.

  • BreakAwayWar

    Has anyone tried frying chicken and French Fries with FireClean?

  • James Kelly

    P.S. – the oil in FireClean has to come from somewhere, either petroleum, a pig or a plant.

    Whale oil is no longer legal. Actually jojoba oil (plant stuff) is the recommended replacement for good ol’ sperm oil. Jojoba, so they say, is good to mix with beeswax for lubing your Sharps carbine bullets..

    Discussion by an organic chemist, on a black-powder site, said there was a fundamental difference between petroleum-base and animal/plant-base oil. I am a metallurgist, know some inorganic chemistry but am ignorant of organic chemistry

    If the oil in FireClean came from some living creature, that same oil probably can be used in food as well.

    FireClean may or may not be mostly canola oil, but also it may have some inedible additives for performance.

    All the B.S. on this thread makes me want to buy some FireClean.

  • markej4801

    Interestingly, if you google what vegetable oils smoke above 200F, you will find virtually ALL of them do. If you look toward Celsius, all of them must be refined. However, Canola has one of the lowest smoke points. It would seem to me that any of them would work IF the smoking point is all that you would be interested in. Even corn oil would work. Not sure if I would want to use Mazola on my bolt…

  • Dragonheart

    If all those that were taken in by the advertizing are actually looking for an exceptional gun oil that really is superior, then try Lucas Extreme Duty Gun Oil. It’s about $1.50 an ounce, but it’s thick & very slick, so it stays where you put it. The best thing out there for rails. After all when it comes to guns where you need real lubrication is on friction points, anything past that is just a metal preservative so just about any coating will work, even vegetable oil.

  • ParaLarry

    I brush my teeth with Froglube™

  • James Kelly

    Steve Johnson, or whoever posted that patent, thank you, thank you.

    Read the patent & it made sense.
    From the viewpoint of a metallurgical engineer with trifling knowledge of organic chemistry & several decades experience with black powder. I knew one should use organic oils, not petroleum base, when cleaning black fouling from a muzzle loader.All that had been available, to my knowledge, was various magic Snake Oils, implied or said to be organic..

    I just ordered two bottles from Brownells, for my assorted guns.

    Those who want to make jokes about salads &c should read the patent. It may give you fresh ideas.

    Those who want their guns to work might log on to Brownells.

    It is a vegetable oil product, and vegetable oils do “dry” when exposed to air. This is a reaction between oxygen and that oil. I believe the stuff may thicken in time. I am superstitious about such things & will be inclined to take care how I store used FIREclean coated rags.

  • Mitchell Tuckness

    Look up the ingredients of WD-40 …. Not really a big deal people. There is urine in makeup as well ladies, ahhhh OH NO!

  • John Dooley

    Here’s a simple test anyone can do at home. In a frying pan put in .25 oz of canola oil and in other identical frying pan measure out .25 oz of FireClean. Place each pan on stove and set to medium high heat. After about a minute add 1 egg to each pan and observe how the egg fries in the pan. Flip egg if you prefer over easy to sunny side up. Best part of this test is if you do it in the morning you’ll have breakfast when the the test is complete.

  • stephen

    The more I look into this FIREClean stuff, the more I don’t like it. The claim of FIREClean about ‘more smoke means less carbon on your gun’ doesn’t take into account a lot of factors. Especially if the smoke is generated by the burning of the oil used in FIREClean. Or the fact that different cartridges were used in the ‘testing’.

    However I did find this pic that proves FIREClean has been around for a long time.

    😉

  • Donald Darr

    Wow, I thought this was about “Fireclean” being cooking oil or not and then it went straight to shampoo and corn starch. Since I’m not going to wash my hair with “Fireclean”, why would i care about shampoo when I was reading about “Fireclean”?!

  • Shawn Lahman

    I am willing to bet that allot of products use veg oil as a base, that doesn’t mean they are the SAME as veg oil. My science education ended in high school and even I know that the methodology used as the basis for this claim is incomplete to say the least. One test simply isn’t enough. All claims made by the writers are pure speculation until they actually provide more evidence than they have. And why are so many people surprised that a statement obviously written by lawyers (as so many company statements are) contains legal doublespeak? That being said I too use Hoppes and remoil wipes and see no reason to change.

  • Bodie

    Isn’t it libelous to openly accuse someone of libel, who was telling the truth? They did nothing to deny the makeup of their product. So how do they claim defamation when nobody said anything other than the truth? That harms the credibility of those who made the announcement, and could cause some to no longer read their blogs due to being labeled as dishonest.

  • anomad101

    Like I don’t have enough to worry about?

  • Robert C Dare

    Well if Fireclean is just Vegetable Oil then I am actually fine with that as long as they say “this is vegetable oil” and not misleading things such as a “new age product” or something that makes me think its not V.Oil. I am not as upset with Fireclean because it is V. Oil , I am more upset that they don’t tell me it is. Know what else was used by many “people in the business” ? LSA. Good Ole LSA. At least I Know that’s not V.Oil. I am just concerned that a consumer does not know what they are getting because a company is not telling them what it is. Because if it was just V.Oil, I would buy V. Oil but since I prefer LSA I stick with that. So we shall see where this thing goes.

  • Robert C Dare

    I wonder if Fire Clean makes a good additive in cooking? hmmm someone will be sure to find out if it is. Give it time

  • Mikey Fors

    Oh my it’s true!!! So then what does that mean Frog Lube is made of!?!

  • Samson

    Just FYI- I didn’t give that more that a brief, cursory read- but he never denied it in the least. He hollered at you for calling him out, he huffed and puffed and blew the house down with name-dropping and bragging, but, never actually said it wasn’t vegetable/canola oil.

    It could be specifically formulated and scientifically calculated until the cows come home, but it looks like this dude got served. He got Servvvvved …sizzzzerrrvved……sippin on some SERRRVVVED…..u got served…..sizzzzerved…..get the idea? Huff and puff but don’t call your $15/oz. super dooper alley opper canola oil anything but. Delta Force can use it, Afghanistan and Iraq veterans could use it, the FBI HRT could rub their MP10s with it daily… but that doesn’t mean it’s not canola oil broseph.

  • Nick F.

    In my own personal opinion, I’m less angry about the fact that FIREClean is vegetable oil and more pissed off that they’re giving such political, bullshit statements about it. Nobody actually believes it’s rebranded Crisco vegetable oil, it’s just another name people use to describe vegetable oil. Then again, I guess if they admit that they’re just pedaling a vegetable oil blend people will stop buying FIREClean.

    Also, I lost a good bit of respect for LAV because of this whole thing.

  • Tom Currie

    So they are saying that they will sue anyone who claims the product is Just Crisco — but they still won’t say what the product actually IS.

    That should work fine until someone gets the Cease & Desist letter from their lawyers and tells them to stuff it — if they want to take someone to court for such “false, defamatory, and libelous” statements, they will have to prove in court that the statements ARE false, which would require them to show what their product really is. Sounds like they are counting on the threat to shut up the critics without thinking it through.

  • Bill

    OK, if anybody needs me, I’ll be in the bass boat hunting a sperm whale. Now I just have to remember if old watchmakers used the oil in it’s head or the actual sperm as a lubricant. I just don’t see myself pleasuring a marine mammal; it has to die.

    I’ll be selling it for $4,000 a milliliter, If I survive. But you will never miss again, women will find you irresistible and show you their boobies without being asked and I offer a money back guarantee if you can prove it came from a blue whale instead. It is literally so low drag that only Tier 0 units can have it. It is so slippery that it will actually slide through plastic, so don’t be surprised if your bottle appears empty. Just point and spray, there’ll be enough residual product to lube every gun you own, three NASCAR stock cars, and preserve from corrosion every piece of arms and armor in the Tower of London.

  • Big R

    I want to keep my guns in the best condition I can, and I also want to protect them by using the best products. I don’t know what to believe about FireClean! I paid $10 + shipping for a 2 oz. bottle of FireClean and I haven’t had a chance to use it yet. I want to give the company a chance to answer these charges, and I hope they can do something to erase the doubt in my mind. I’m not a scientist, I just love to shoot targets, but, I’m not smart enough to know who’s fooling who! Will somebody do something? I “gots” to know the truth and I’m willing to listen to both sides of this argument. But, If I find out I can go to the grocery store and buy a bottle of Crisco oil to keep my guns clean and protected, I’m “gonna” be very upset.

  • MIstwalker

    I like the threat of legal action used for pointing out their product is vegetable oil. Threatening people who tell the simple truth about your products with legal action is disreputable, and downright scummy. This is what just convinced me to never purchase a product made by this company.

  • Shawn Lahman

    Why has my post that’s critical of the science you use as the basis of your claims been removed? It’s available on the disqus site but not on tfb. Based on your one test method I could conclude from this one deletion that you don’t want your readers to know just how flawed your science is. But I need more evidence, it could just be a technical glitch.

  • Paul

    I just think of my cast iron fire pan,used over high heat,whipe clean,more you use it the better it gets for nonstick.My fire pan oil?Canola oil…Makes sense now,good cooks know Crisco.Now good shooters do too.

  • Ken Baker

    Ha!!! Oh…the humanity. We all know KY doesn’t work. So, let’s switch the conversation back to what does. After all, this isn’t a witch hunt? Or, is it? My fault. Suckers or not.

    IMHO, Fireclean is the best salve for your gun when running suppressed. I don’t think Crisco is going to do the job (Gonna try it though). I don’t need to see a horus reticle graph to show me how “wrong” i’ve been. Cause, If I’ve been wrong? I don’t wannna to be right! At least, not in that application. I think we all have bigger things to be worried about.
    FireClean is on point. Get over it. Better yet, fry some chicken in it. Open a restaurant and charge people up the hoo ha! Delicious

  • Kivaari

    Like Vietnam war era, with LSA (Lube Small Arms). LSA will “come apart” when sitting on a shelf untouched. The time period for failure is unknown to me. I just know that the many bottles of it I had separated as it aged. Vague memories recall sergeants saying “Use it within a few months, and it will be fine”. We were told it was vegetable oil.

      • Kivaari

        Any explanation for why we were told it was vegetable based? Or why it degraded so fast. I know my supply came apart in storage and would not reconstitute upon vigorous shaking? It seemed to work well when fresh. Was it abandoned because of this issue?

        • Diester synthetic lubricants are known to degrade when exposed to water. Perhaps it was the high humidity and heat?

          LSA was originally developed for the M61 Vulcan. They needed a lubricant thick enough to stay on the mechanism as it spun up to 6,000rpm. Its replacement by CLP for infantry small arms was more due to the attraction of no longer needing to issue separate lubricants and bore cleaners

      • Kivaari

        Like I can even pronounce those words. You have to keep them simple for like Armalite, Colt or Kalshnikov.

        • Let’s start from the top:

          Lithium stearate is the thickening agent;
          Bis (2-elthylhexyl) sebacate is a synthetic lubricant and serves as the base for the other ingredients;
          Diisopropyl phosphite is an anti-wear agent;
          2,6 di-tertiary butyl-p-cresol is an oxidation inhibitor; and
          Barium dinonylnaphthalene sulfonate is a corrosion inhibitor.

  • Ergo

    i lube my rifles with motor oil. Makes the range smell like a nascar track. If i lubed my rifles with canola oil would it make the range smell like a cake?

  • RickH

    Maybe you could combine this thread with the other Fireclean post. It’ll be the topic that never ends!

  • Herp

    I have no scientific education, but I have some common sense and practical experience. Also, I can read. According to the patent, we have incomplete information about the formula. According to my practical experience as a floatation operator and firearm enthusiast, chemical reactions can be powerful and a small difference in formula makes a big impact in performance. So here’s what I’m gonna do: I’ll withhold judgement and continue using ATF to clean my guns.

  • Lyle

    Ah hahahaha.
    Yup, PT Barnum was right!

    10,00% mark up, not abad days work

  • alex

    Bottom line they banned me from their Facebook page for saying exactly what their patent application says. If it’s vegetable oil so be it just don’t come out and attack people when you got caught. The Fireclean Company is shady.

  • alex

    It’s popcorn oil people the beta carotene prevents oxidation