Open Handed Police Gun Fight

Mark Adair

Mark Adair is a suspect in an armed robbery and sexual assault. Watch the video of the officer’s body camera. The officer pulls up to question the suspect. Mark immediately pulls a gun on the officer. If you watch the video carefully, you can see the officer fights Mark with open hands. Then they grapple on the ground and the officer disarms Mark Adair. The officer’s partner gets into the fight and the officer pulls out his firearm in 18 secs. It is very interesting to see how this fight develops. A lot to take away from this short fight.



Nicholas C

Co-Founder of KRISSTALK forums, an owner’s support group and all things KRISS Vector related. Nick found his passion through competitive shooting while living in NY. He participates in USPSA and 3Gun. He loves all things that shoots and flashlights. Really really bright flashlights.

Any questions please email him at nicholas.c@staff.thefirearmblog.com


Advertisement

  • Vhyrus

    Rush a gun, run from a knife. They really opened up on him at the end.

    • Bill

      I respectfully disagree. Grab, undo and neutralize, understanding that you’re going to get cut to some degree. The best defense and all that….I can’t calculate the odds, but if someone has pulled a knife on you and hasn’t immediately cut or stabbed you, and is just holding you at knifepoint, you have an opportunity to seize the initiative and make them fight your fight, instead of vice versa.

      But that’s just me.

      • jay

        “Grab, undo and neutralize, understanding that you’re going to get cut to some degree.”

        Hahaha. The Internet mall ninja at his best.
        Maybe you are very young, but a bit of history reading will teach you how much killing blade weapons did for thousands of years.

        “Cut to some degree”…. hahaha. Someone has seen too many Kung fu movies.

        • gusten

          I am not running from anybody, not from some sort of macho bravissimo but I am not a sprinter and would get cut in the back, HW with a bum knee

          better to try to grab for me. and I do have some bjj/mma training

          • eriky

            For me if someone where to pull a knife on me. I’d give them my wallet and kindly ask them not to turn my intestines into outtestines. I’m kinda burly, and by burly I mean fat-ish so running isn’t really an option. And I’m not getting myself cut up over some money or a stupid bar fight. So it’s giving up and calling the cops afterwords.

            Now if someone where to really intend on hurting me that is a whole other story. I always carry a rather large folding knife on me but I don’t know how I would react. Maybe I’d fight for my life or maybe I’d turn into a sobbing begging mess and hope they’d leave me alone out of pity. Seeing a 6’10” 260 pound man weep like a 6 year old girl isn’t a pretty sight.

          • Bill

            If it works, it’s plenty pretty.

          • Tassiebush

            Totally sensible approach. I’d rather part with some dignity and money. The hassle factor of successfully defending yourself and facing murder or wounding charges significantly exceeds parting with a wallet and i’d rather recovering from hurt feelings than nerve damage and a colostomy. Like you say though too there is a point where fighting back is unavoidable. The big challenge is working out which is which.

          • LT

            You are 6′-10″? Damn. Even at 260 you can’t be too “fat-ish”!

            Just keep the attacker at arm’s length…. đŸ™‚

          • Bill

            Bingo – running gets you cut from behind, your pulse rate is jacked, you’ve mentally given up, and you die tired and sweaty.

        • M van dongen

          Well, rule 1 of a knife fight is : You are going to bleed.
          In particular there is a certain remark in a medieval dagger treatise that captions a frame as : Here they fight with knives, God help them both.
          Knife vs unarmed, I’d rather disengage as the unarmed person.

          • Tom

            To be fair a dagger* is designed for fighting so your much less likely to have your own hand run down the blade when you stab which is one of the leading causes (at least here in the UK were our criminals seem to use kitchen knives a lot, no sense of class) of self inflicted injury in knife fights. I would say assuming you know what you are doing and can avoid the after blow then there no reason why you will get cut using a dagger.

            Historically speaking daggers were the concealed carry peaces of their day. Not something you wanted to take to a fight as your sole weapon but something you would always have on you in case of trouble.

            * I would also include those knives which are designed to be used for fighting like the Kukri, Sax, Bowie etc.

          • Giolli Joker

            Kukri is mainly a tool.

          • Tom

            In use yes and there are smaller Kukri which are unsuitable for combat but there are clear indications that the Kukri is for combat, for example traditional designs feature a band around the handle which improves grip and prevents the hand ridding forward when the Kukri is used with a thrust (yes you can thrust with a Kukri) this would not be necessary if the Kukri was simple a tool that had been pressed into service as a weapon.

          • Giolli Joker

            Your sources? As far as I know it’s a multi purpose tool (including butchery) that being a sturdy blade can be plenty efficient in combat use.

          • Tom

            Everything I have ever read or seen on the Gurkhas makes it clear that the Kukri is a weapon first and foremost. That it can be used for many mundane task (and is more likely to be used for these than combat) does not alter the simple fact that it is a weapon and symbol of the Nepalese people.

            Certainly Gurkhas in uniform carry the Kukri at all times as part of their basic dress, they would not do this if it were simple a camp or mess tool that was occasional pressed into service in times of need.
            A google image search for Gurkha will reveal many images of them with the weapon drawn charging into combat (often with their rifle in their left hand to use as an improvised shield).

          • Bill

            Tell that to the Ghurkas đŸ˜‰

        • Tom

          Of course in the good old days there was little in the way of medical care and very few effective treatments for wounds. Anything more than a superficial flesh wound was inclined to get infected and a puncture to the intestines, liver, kidney, bladder etc etc would require the services of a priest and a grave digger unlike today where whilst you would need to see a doctor your very likely to survive with no permanent damage (scars are not damage of course they are cool đŸ™‚ )

          That said I would not underestimate a knife or dagger as a weapon, the dagger was for many hundreds of years, in Europe*, the personal protection weapon of choice. Much like todays handgun it might not be the most deadly (indeed statistically speaking you are likely to survive an attack from ether more often than not) weapon in the world but its something you can have with you at all times and has sent plenty of people to their maker.

          * contrary to popular perception most towns in Medieval Europe had laws against the wearing of weapons unless you were a knight (and a proper one at that not just a professional soldier) or part of the city watch/militia. Knives and daggers were however permitted.

        • Bill

          Well, I guess you told me.

          Ever train with a Shocknife turned all the way up?

  • Tom

    Well I guess that proves why you don’t pull a gun (even a fake one) on a police officer. The footage is not exactly clear as to what went down. I would say that the last few shots fired did not appear (from the footage) to be necessary but then again its not entirely clear what the suspect was doing. It is of course easy to judge sitting behind a computer screen and I am sure that when a man pulls a gun on you the adrenaline starts to pump and you do what you need to do to get out of the situation alive.

    From Google I gather that there were other witness who stated that the shooting was justified and that both the officers involved have been cleared of any wrong doing.

    • Friend of Tibet

      “last few shots fired did not appear (from the footage) to be necessary”

      Agree.

      From the cops perspective these are more likely reaction shots under intense emotion and totally understandable.

      However it does kinda lean on the overkill side within the legal limit.

      • Bill

        Actually, it boils down to what the community will tolerate, because if you are legally, morally and ethically justified in shooting someone, one or one hundred, it doesn’t really matter how many rounds you take to do it. Then you add multiple officers, and the amount of gunfire multiplies.

        Then factor is that it takes time to STOP shooting. The officer has to perceive that the threat no longer exists, which requires shifting focus from the sights back out into the world, then make a decision about what to do, then communicate that decision to his trigger finger. That’s why a number of hoods get shot both in the front and the back – they turned away from the gunfire faster than the shooter could stop firing: action beats reaction.

        I’m hugely disappointed in the body camera footage I’ve seen, and sometimes I train with a GoPro on my head or chest. I’ve realized that you don’t get a big enough picture that puts everything into context, particularly at contact distances like this. In my exercises, I was there, and knew what the camera saw. Maybe coupled with a dash cam, or to get really high tech, a remote camera on the roof of the car that follows the officer’s movement. Really neat, and 98% of the agencies couldn’t afford it.

        • Tom

          There does appear to be a pause of several seconds between the first and second round of shooting. But as you say when in such a stressful situation people will do things they perhaps would not be considered “ideal” by those watching back from the safety and comfort of their homes.

          We also all know that (unless your Dirty Harry) hang gun rounds are not the surest way to stop an angry man intent on doing you harm. From the limited field of view the camera gave the suspect did appear to still be a threat and reaching for his gun when the officer/s opened up with the second fusillade.

          This does illustrate that body cameras alone are not always enough to exonerate/convict officers and that the footage must be view carefully and many times before a conclusion can be reached.

          I am just left asking what on earth made this man think to draw his fake weapon on an officer. He knew that his gun was fake and the officers was real not a situation he was likely to win and yet still he drew and resisted. If nothing else the officers involved would not have had the stress of an investigation had the man just cooperated but I guess that’s far too much to ask from a scumbag.

        • lbeacham

          I’m concerned that the push to rely on video will shift the requirement to positive video proof and without it, police will be automatically guilty when charged. All other evidence will take a backseat to the narrow window that video shows. Forget what the men in blue do and say, it won’t matter without video.

          • Swarf

            Sounds great.

          • lbeacham

            Only if you don’t believe in freedom, responsibility and the Constitution. That would be not so great.

          • Tom

            It is a big concern I agree. There is even a “sort of” precedent for this (very much anecdotal) wherein juries, fascinated by TV shows like CSI are requesting forensic evidence in fraud and other cases where there is none. It is not hard to imagine that we will end up in a situation where juries (ether grand juries at indictments or trial juries) demand body camera footage and bay their verdict solely upon it and not look at the situation in context. And God help the officer who forgets to turn on their body camera, allows the batteries to go flat, or encounters a malfunction before a fatal shooting.

          • Bill

            The “CSI Effect” isn’t anecdotal anymore. It has been studied, and there is an effect.

          • lbeacham

            My point exactly. You make it more clear.

          • Bill

            Second to being a cop, I do a lot of photography and videography, and anyone who actually believe that photos/video are always a true and accurate representation of what really is being seen is, as we say, the perfect client.

          • lbeacham

            Good point. If videos tell all the truth, and the absence of video goes against police then why have a trial?

        • FarmerB

          I’m with you – I think at that stage, you’re just like a machine working that trigger as quickly as possible. Then the conscience thought process kicks back in and says: hmm, maybe time to cease-fire and evaluate the situation. As you said “communicate that decision to the trigger finger”. By that time, there can be a lotta ‘unnecessary’ rounds gone down range. But very understandable to me.

    • Swarf

      After a fight for my life like that, I’d still be shooting the motherfu*ker next week.

      • A majority of people do keep shooting and couldn;t tell you how many rounds they fired.

        • Deacon Valis Knight

          this 98% of the time.
          i doubt even I on my most zen days would squeeze squeeze squeeze in the same situation.

          unless an assailant is disabled to the point that they CAN’T harm you it should be assumed that their intent will continue to be to harm you or others

          • MrEllis

            Police are trained to shoot to stop, it takes a part of a second to stop shooting in half a second a trained officer can fire off two or three rounds. Not and expert, just someone who is trained.

        • MrEllis

          A person who is trained can fire five or six rounds in a second without even realizing it.

      • RJ

        And then reloading, and then going out and buying more ammo to shoot him some more.

        There are some questionable shootings in the news…this isn’t one of them.

    • Tassiebush

      I guess regarding whether extra shots are warranted it’s worth remembering most handguns are pretty marginal in stopping power for a human sized animal and if we add the hurried centre of mass bullet placement to that it’d be hard to have much confidence someone was safely down.

  • Bob

    Clearly shows why believing that a gun solves everything is flawed. Learn to fight with your hands, blades/objects and firearms and youll be extremely well prepared. Believing a gun solves every situation and your ninja fast would of got that cop hurt. Be realistic in that most things occur sudden and close and that you will need time and space to pull your firearm which means you need to know some hand to hand stuff. There are way too many mall ninjas believing a gun is the answer and not realizing its a tool and forgetting other tools in the arsenal.

    • Alex

      He got close to the cop. Kinda dumb when the only advantage a gun really gives you is range.

  • Christopher Armour

    Simple lesson, pull a gun on a cop and expect to get shot.

    • USMC03Vet

      Attack the police get shot. Don’t need to have a gun.

    • DonDrapersAcidTrip

      Or don’t even own a gun and just stand around while being black and expect to get shot. So many options for getting shot with cops.

      • claymore

        Liar

        • DonDrapersAcidTrip

          Are you an ill-informed idiot by choice or cirucmstance

          Also lol at my comment being deleted by a bunch of rednecks who jerk off to the idea of “freedom” every morning

          • claymore

            Like I said liar.

          • DonDrapersAcidTrip

            Yeah I might as well go to a playground for that kind intellectual argument.

          • claymore

            That is where you belong on a playground with the rest of the clueless kids.

          • DonDrapersAcidTrip

            Either your 15 years old or just completely indistinguishable from a 15 year old on the internet lol

          • claymore

            Says the maroon with “acid trip” in his user name LOL

          • Don, dude, you really need to stay off the acid!

          • Anthony “stalker6recon”

            When your mother gets home from work, stand up, shake the orange colored powdered cheese from your big bag of cheese puffs off your spiderman jumpsuit with the little footies, and head straight up you basement stairs. Tell her to meet you in the kitchen, slap her straight across the mouth, and declare in one breath “you have failed me mother, worse, you failed America! Now make me a bowl of fruity-pebbles, and call my ex-wife and tell her that I lost my disability scam and she won’t be getting the child support I promised”.

            Then climb back down into your home, and pick up your controller, unpause your Halo-3 game, that would be the biggest accomplishment of your pathetic life.

  • phauxtoe

    Good Shoot!

  • USMC03Vet

    Feel good story.

  • nova3930

    Come on! That dude was totally just wanting to show the officer his new gat! There’s no threat there….

  • JQPub

    Excellent job by the officers. One less scumbag bad guy. First priority was to stop him from getting an aimed shot, which he did. Then when he had the chance, he was able to draw and fire — until the threat was neutralized. Agree, lot to learn in that short vid – and I think that one directly applies to CCW holders too. I would ask: ‘what type of dumb ass would do something like that?’ – but perhaps that’s redundant. Scumbag gets his Darwin award and a nice plastic bag to go with it – and the Cops get to go home to their families. Good stuff.

  • jeffrey melton

    suicide by cop

  • Victor Lourenço

    Where are all the black people rioting now?

  • Will

    The instant Mark Adair made the decision to pull the gun he was bought and paid for.
    I hope he gave his soul to Jesus because his butt belonged to the police.

    • Lammo

      Free evangelism lessons upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus, just draw a gun on a police officer.

      • DonDrapersAcidTrip

        jesus talk and making light of the murder of human beings in the same sentence, good ignorant hypocritical american brand christianity in action.

        • Rick_A

          That’s not murder. 100% justified morally, legally, ethically, etc. Nothing wrong with good prevailing. Simple as that. America and the media has a soft spot for thugs right now as further encroachment on the rights of good free men is sought. The hell with that.

        • Nobody is making light of Adair’s death – simply acknowledging the fact that threatening anyone with a gun (especially armed police) is signing your own death warrant. It is good, when good triumphs over evil, and law abiding people should be bold in that acknowledgement. Evil people should know that their actions will be held accountable. One thing is for sure – You have some serious anger issues.

          • DonDrapersAcidTrip

            Plenty of people are exactly making light of his death and going out of their way to do so.

        • Anthony “stalker6recon”

          You are exactly the type of morally challenged idiot, who cries over this scumbag, and feels sick, while at the same time, you could drink whine (misspelled on purpose) while discussing the use of dead baby parts for money.

          Only liberal lunacy teaches to love those who break laws and prey on innocents, and hate those who love innocent life, and support their own rights to defend life, with deadly force. Morally corrupt liberal indoctrination, pathetic.

          • DonDrapersAcidTrip

            lmao, are you even aware what an insane lunatic you sound like? keep jerking off to men in uniform though if that’s what you’re into though

        • Let’s stay off religion. Going down that road will cause a ruckus just like politics.

        • The Brigadier

          What murder the guy was a rapist wanted for rape and armed robbery. Both offenses are violent crime. When challenged he pulled his gun and advanced on the officer. That peckerwood deserved to die.

  • Bullphrog855

    Good thing his bore axis was just right.

  • Yes indeed pulling a knife will get you dropped on the spot unless you drop it fast. A person with a blade can cover 26 feet before you can draw and fire. The FBI extended the distance after going over all the data they accumulated over the years.
    To be honest nobody knows how they will react in a life or death situation unless you’ve been in one. Not one person can tell you with certainty they can even pull the trigger until they have to.

  • Aaron E

    You have to consider all the facts. After pointing a gun at the officer a struggle ensues. The officer is knocked down with bad guy. After a bit officer disarms bad guy but cannot be sure where that gun ends up. Bad guy doesn’t stop fighting, which in legal terms means he is still aggravatingly resisting arrest – aggravating because he already pointed gun at officer, gun is loose nearby, and he continues to fight officer, which if he succeeds reasonably means serious injury or death to officer.

    That is why shooting the unarmed bad guy is still well within legal requirements for police deadly force. And when officer is able to disengage AND bad guy rolls towards gun (in essence continuing the fight) the officers are legally justified to continue deadly force.

  • Frank Aking

    Heir Obama has ordered his execution as an enemy of the Democrats.

    • MrEllis

      BENGHAZIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!

  • Michael_Walters

    The guy pulled a gun on the cop. Yes, the cop was able to disarm him of THAT pistol. How was the cop to know that was the idiots only weapon? By mind reading? The suspect continued to struggle, hence he was shot. The cop did nothing wrong. You, on the other hand, are guilty of not thinking clearly.

    • Canadian Vet

      Every time I’ve done any kind of security, search and detainee handling training, every instructor had a saying: where there’s one weapon, there’s more.

      So basically, once someone has a weapon in play, you HAVE to assume he’s got more until you prove it different. To do otherwise is suicidal at best, negligently homicidal at worst.

      Also, the guy distinctly showed the cops lethal intent and they faced a credible threat of death or serious bodily harm and therefore a lethal response was quite justified. Not to mention that once he managed to disengage himself from Adair, the cop was scrambling backwards to gain distance and he had absolutely no way to know what buddy had in store next.

      But what I’d really like to see? His partner’s body cam footage, because I have no idea where that first shot came from.

      • TBW

        Good point, how long was that other officer standing there with the shotgun. And who was the third dude? Would they allow a civi that close with his hands in his hoodie? And what was that pixelation about where the hoodie guy would have been in clear view? The third officer is standing behind the hoodie dude. Two other cam views that would have been interesting to see.

        Officer reaction was very good by going hands on effectively. He would have taken lead if he tried to draw. What’s the adage: Never draw on a drawn gun?

        First two rounds put an anchor in the tango and the next 5-6 assisted his ventilation…

        Lesson for all: Pull a gun or knife or reach in the car and punch and attempt to disarm a cop you get ventilated! Period…

        • Anthony “stalker6recon”

          Agree 100 percent about the choice to use his hands in defense of the firearm, drawing would have given the pervert too much time to get off some shots.

          When I did personal security in the US Army, we were trained to grab the weapon (if it were a pistol), pull it into our chest (SAPI plate:Small Arms Protective Insert) and pull the aggressor towards us as we fall backwards to the ground.

          Hope I explained that correctly. The idea being to control the shot, as the SAPI plate could more than absorb a handgun round. The rest of your detail would then remove the threat. The ROE under such situations, is make a new hole in the person’s head, there were no second chances given.

  • Shiloh

    Good shoot officers …another pos thug off the streets.

  • petru sova

    So lets get this straight. The suspect is disarmed and then executed in cold blood by the other officer. They do things like this in Putin’s Russia too.

    • Canadian Vet

      Really? As he was scrambling away from Adair, that cop had no idea what was next. I’m pretty sure he had no idea where that first gun was, let alone if Adair only had one weapon. In fact, once a weapon is in play it is at best suicidal to assume there aren’t others.

      Judging by the frantic shooting with just one hand by an officer scrambling to create distance against an aggressor who showed clear lethal intent, that was definitely NOT an execution. So far as he was concerned, that officer was shooting to save his own life.

      • petru sova

        I think without a full video we can both speculate ad infinitum both pro and con as to what happened. But the video at the end does indeed show the cop blasting away at a prostrate man who was obviously already shot and seriously injured. This is outrageous and obscene.

        • Hank Seiter

          It’s your second-guessing as a spectator that is outrageous and obscene. How does it feel to be judge and jury when your own life isn’t even being threatened? The world needs less bleeding-heart numbskulls and more men of action if America is to continue as the land of the free and home of the brave. I never heard a scream from the perp that he’ll give up, he kept fighting in earnest and the officer obliged him. One less dope living off the American taxpayer. He should get a Darwin Award.

          • petru sova

            Even a Moron can see what happened after the man was lying helpless on the floor.

        • Canadian Vet

          I’m with Hank on this. Cops are trained, but they are not psychic and even a wounded man can still be a threat and showed absolutely no indication he had his fill at any given time. Until the very end, he was still trying to fight. A fight he initiated when he pulled a weapon on two police officers whose only “crime” was to ask if they could have a chat with him.

          What I saw was a cop fighting for his life against an aggressor who showed every intent of killing him.

          Now tell us, what should the cops have waited for before terminating the threat? Should they have let him grab his gun again or produce another weapon first? Or should they have waited for him to shoot first, possibly wounding or killing one of the officers or a bystander before they dropped him?

          And you know what? Neither of these cops will ever forget that night and not in a good way. They’ll wake up at night with their hearts beating a thousand beats per minute and in cold sweats. They’ll relive every last frantic, terrifying second at the most inopportune times. With time and a lot of work, effort and no small amount of luck they’ll be able to put this behind them. In the meantime, as someone who has recovered enough from PTSD to lead a mostly normal life, I wouldn’t wish what they’ll be going through on anyone. Not even you.

          But imagine how worse it would be should they have allowed him to get back to his weapon. Perhaps to you it would have been fair, a life for a life, but let me remind you that Adair was the aggressor. He presented these two cops with a very credible threat of death or grievous bodily harm; they declined to allow themselves to be murdered.

          And if you think that’s a crime, you need a new moral compass.

    • Hank Seiter

      petru sova … just another Monday morning quarterback with 20/20 hindsight. As already mentioned above, the police can’t mind read and though the perp’s original pistol appears to be on the ground, it’s entirely possible the officer shooting doesn’t even see it. I also don’t hear the officer’s buddy screaming for him to stop and it’s also entirely possible the perp has a back-up pistol and as long as he is moving (even if he’s in his death throes) he still poses a potential threat. Though the video isn’t clear, it may indeed be the case the perp was trying to roll over or right himself out of reflex which again, makes him a possible threat.

      Personally, I don’t care if the officer in question emptied his hi-cap mag into the perp, the sheer adrenaline rush, the narrowing of vision that results, the incomplete situational awareness that occurs in an extended encounter like this, the uncertainty of the level of incapacitation of the perp, and the fight reflex argues in the favor of the police officer. Remember, this moron had his pistol out first and appeared to be more than willing to use it … irrespective of if the weapon turned out to be an airsoft pistol or a balls-on .45 Auto.

      So, you self-righteous second-guessers out there should get off your hobby horses unless you’ve been in similar situations and as a result are able to post here as a matter of experience in a high-threat environment. Now if some brown shirt police officers are kicking down my door at 4:00 in the morning … maybe you guys would then have a relevant and salient argument to make.

      • petru sova

        If anything the ending of the vido shows the cop had little or no training and was in a blind panic. If he did have any training at all he obviously flunked the course and never should been hired to being with. The video makes this obvious.

        • Canadian Vet

          And I suppose that unlike these two officers, you have the super-duper-Tier 1-ninja operator-Delta-SEAL-contractor training to have fired a lone, surgically accurate round that would have disabled only Adair’s weapon without so much as causing him a single scratch and then convinced him with your gentle nature and persuasive arguments to surrender so everything could be made all right?

          Newsflash. Force on force, even in training, isn’t like the range. And even in force in force training, when you know for a fact you’ll be going home at the end of the day, your ability to shred the X-ring on a hapless bit of paper means only a little less than jack-squat because the opfor will be out trying to actively get you. And when things go live, where it is really life or death, no amount of training can fully prepare you for what’s going to happen.

          Tell you what, on your next range trip, try a little stress innoculation. It’s not the same as a dedicated opposing force and not even close to a live incident, but it should be enough to drive the point home. When you get to the range, start with 20 burpees as fast as you cab, then run about a half-mile at a dead run, then crank out some push ups, then scramble backwards give or take 5 to 10 yards from your target, while drawing and then engage it with 5 rounds as fast as you humanly can while concinving yourself that that hapless target isn’t paper but a violent aggressor who, for what you’ve seen, is intent on making your kids orphans.

          And unless you are as good as you seem to think you are, you’ll be lucky if you can place half your shots half as well as you normally would.

          • petru sova

            Making excuses for a cop that had little or no training and machine gunned a helpless severely wounded man on the floor just does not make any sense. The end of the video refutes every excuse you made for the cop.

          • Canadian Vet

            I gotta ask, what qualifies you to critcize these officers’ qualifications? What is your experience with life and death encounters? How familiar are you with sympathetic nervous system responses? Hell, do you even shoot?

          • petru sova

            I only criticized the 2nd cop not the first. I suggest you go back and look at the end of the video. I am sure a jury will not be sympathetic to the cop.

          • Canadian Vet

            My question stands. What expertise, qualifications or experience do you base your criticism on?

            At no time did the aggressor call out that he had enough; instead, he tried to reach for his weapon again. So far as he was concerned, and rightly so I might add, the cop was still in the fight and his primary concern was whether or not he would see his wife and kids at the end of his shift. Again, note how he is scrambling backwards as fast as he can while using the only appropriate response to a lethal threat. That is not deliberate movement, that is not what an ‘executioner’ as you put it would do. It is pure unadulterated fighting for his life.

            Not to mention that the instantaneous death from a shot to the center of mass is a fallacy. Even a mortally wounded opponent can be a threat for a long time and so long as that threat continues, treating it as anything but is suicidal at best, negligently homicidal at worst.

            Again, if you think keeping oneself alive in a violent encounter is a crime, you need a new moral compass because the one you’ve got is N/S.

            And if you ever find yourself in such a life or death situation, be my guest and gamble with your life. But nothing gives you the right to begrudge anyone doing everything in their power to survive such an encounter their actions to stay alive.

          • petru sova

            The jury will see the video through civilized eyes not through the eyes of an executioner. Your version is pure fantasy.

          • Canadian Vet

            Still, you have failed to answer my question. What qualifications, experience or expertise do you possess to criticize that officer’s training or proficiency?

          • petru sova

            we will see who winds in court, won’t we. And what qualifications do you have besides taking executioner training.

          • Canadian Vet

            15 years in the Canadian Armed Forces. Having taken fire in Afghanistan with everything from a stray round from a contact 2 kilometers away to artillery rockets and damn near everything in between. Having actually been in encounters that got way too damn close to turning deadly for my taste. And actually experienced sympathetic nervous system responses, and not just reading about it in Col. Dave Grossman’s books, And that was the “live” stuff. Training-wise, a fair bit of force on force involving just blanks, MILES/WES gear and simunitions. And I’ll be eternally grateful I never had to fire a single shot in anger. So I have the first-hand knowledge and experience. And that’s just on the professional side.

            And if you are trying to get a rise out of me by calling me a murderer or executioner, you’re wasting your time. I’ve been called much worse by infinitely better people than you.

            Now, would you care to answer my own question, as you’ve repeatedly failed to?

          • petru sova

            Putting you in charge would be the same as asking an executioner if he wants to give up executions and violence, you thrive on it, look at your history, Do you think any civilized person studying police brutality would take anything you say seriously. The first officer in the video behaved like a human being and a very well trained one, something you failed to notice or commend the officer for. The Second Cop completely lost control and did not have a clue on how he should have behaved. The video proves it. Where you asleep when you were watching it.

          • Canadian Vet

            So, basically you are saying you have exactly zero real experience in dealing with violence and your ivory-tower academia trumps real world, first-hand knowledge by people who do things instead of reading about them. Somehow, I am not surprised.

            There is little seen of the first officer. I for one would love to see his body cam footage, get another point of view on the incident. Also, it was the other cop who had a weapon pulled on him. And even you ought to consider that a rather excessive response to simply being asked if he’d mind having a word.

            So who was it who initiated the fight? The cop politely yet firmly asking if they could talk or Adair who responded to that request not be stopping and talking but producing a weapon?

            Tell me, how should that second cop responded, based on your qualifications? Should he have allowed Adair to fire first? And don’t give me that “it wasn’t a real gun” crap. Air gun or real gun, when someone has it pointed at you the muzzle looks big enough to park a car in it regardless of the caliber. Not to mention a lot of air guns look enough like the real thing that outwardly the only difference is the diameter of the bore.

            And when he managed to disengage from the grapple, what should he have done then? Let Adair retrieved his weapon, produce another one or rush him?

            What would have been an acceptable resolution in your eyes? One dead Adair and one dead cop? Nowhere does it say cops have to allow themselves to be murdered to satisfy the sensibilities of people like you.

          • petru sova

            The facts are the first Cop disarmed the man. There was no other weapon pulled. The mans hands are clearly empty. The mans hands are clearly visible. Being that close you would have to be blind not to see this. Any professional would tell you there was absolutely no justification for shooting this man and when the man was down and wounded to keep on shooting him is outrageous. The video at the end is quite clear, he is helpless, he is severely wounded, he is not going for another weapon, both hands are visible. You can lie all you want about this but the video clearly shows it all. I think this case should definitely go to court in front of Civilized Jury.

          • Canadian Vet

            You really need to wake up to the real world. Was Adair’s gun in a cop’s hand? Had it been cleared away from him? No, it was still within easy reach. Therefore, it was still in play. Also, did you hear Adair ever cry out that he was giving up? Did he ever show a sign of surrendering? No. Instead, he insisted on trying to get back into the fight. And yes, his hands were visible, and going back towards his gun. Any professional will also tell you that reaching for your weapon after it’s been taken from you is a great way to present a credible threat of death or grievous bodily harm.

            Also, cops aren’t psychic; how are they supposed to know whether he has another weapon on his person before they search him? Every time I’ve taken any training in security, searches or detainee handling, we had one thing hammered in our minds non-stop: where there is one weapon, assume there’s more. It’s better to be pleasantly surprised he only has the one than die because you didn’t anticipate another weapon.

            Also, any professional will also tell you that down is not out. Being injured on the ground doesn’t magically make someone not a threat. There are plenty of documented cases where people have suffered catastrophic injuries yet kept on fighting, including a Ghurka who held the ground against the Japanese after he had last an arm to a hand grenade and a cop who was shot in the face, lost an eye and still managed to draw and successfully engage his aggressor. The fact he kept shooting is that a threat was still perceived by him and his partner. After all, if that other officer was God’s gift to law enforcement as you seem to believe, he would have yelled at his partner to hold his fire if the threat was gone, no?

            Seriously, you ivory tower academic types are all the same. You look down on those who’ve actually been there and done that because of our lack of academic credentials, and refuse to consider valid anything that doesn’t neatly fit in your books or falls within what your “professional community” accepts as part of its dogma.

          • petru sova

            Your the typical right wing red neck that believes Cops can kill anyone anytime for any reason. They are always right. Again the video proves what happened. He was executed in cold blood. He was lying on the floor not offering any resistance. He was severely injured and probably dying. Immediate emergency assistance was called for. With two big cops standing right over him they were supposed to handcuff him if they were still wary of him. The video clearly shows he was totally out of it and no threat to anyone. Machine gunning a helpless man would never go over even with a jury from someplace like Texas and brother that is really saying a lot.

          • petru sova

            My background. Psychology, Sociology, History, just to lightly touch on it. Forty-two years and counting to your 15 years.

          • Hank Seiter

            Buwhahahaha? So your “hands on” experience is basically the experience of picking up books and yet you still insist on being judge and jury of a law enforcement authority fighting an armed perp?

          • crackedlenses

            And the said jury will have absolutely no idea what the cop went through nor what they would have done if they had been in his shoes; in other words, their decision will be uniformed.

            Unless you have been in a similar situation and performed better, then how could you say that you would not do the same thing this officer did?

  • petru sova

    Because of the toy gun and the incomplete video the case will most likely not go to a Grand Jury. The cop that disarmed the man is to be commended but in the case of the other cop its too bad there was not a bystander with a cell phone to film the whole confrontation. From what l little you can see it looks like cop number two panicked and machine gunned the suspect as he lay on the ground.

    As top U.S. Lawyers have stated many times the deck is almost always stacked in favor of the police because there is no law mandating the use of an independent prosecutor. Local Prosecutors are more often than not in bed with the Police, and even many times have blood relatives on the Police force and even on the Grand Juries. The only thing left for the bereaved is to sue in civil court. The U.S. Government is working to change the civil rights law which will make it easier for the Government to prosecute cops when excessive force is used because the present law is too narrowly defined in favor of the police. In the horrendous Rodney King beating the State refused to prosecute and the Federal Government had to step in to bring justice to the incident which also resulted in many reforms being made against the Police Brutality of that time period in that State but as history proved it certainly did not go far enough Statewide or Nationwide.

    The use of body cameras have reduced complaints against Police brutality by a whopping 65 per cent in most big cities proving how much cop abuse that there was in the past. Shooting are coming way down as well but their seems still to be way to many of them.

    Some years ago two people robbed a bank with ak-47 assault rifles and bullet proof vests. One of the Cops refused to let a Doctor treat one of the seriously wounded suspects on the scene who later died because of it. As usual no charges were filed but the cop was taken to civil court over the incident and the department did not finance his defense. Many civil lawsuits would never be necessary if the laws were changed as recommended by top criminal lawyers in the country.

    • Tom

      And just maybe the reduction in complaints is that the officers accused can now easily prove it did not occur. Many of these complaints ended out of court as it was easier/cheaper to settle than go to court hence many saw it as an easy way of avoiding a charge or making a few dollars.

      Just google “free inhabitant cries rape” and witness what some officers have to put up with. I would bet money that had the video not been leaked across the internet our special little snowflake would of made a complaint against the officer, the very presence of the video proves the officer was courteous, polite and extremely patient.

      No on is going to be claiming that there are not bad apples out there in LE but its extremely naive to believe that a reduction in complaints against LE in cases where body cameras are worn is down simple to them “behaving themselves” and not because those who accuse them know they can no longer get away with it.

      In the case of the LA shooting IIRC the coroner in the case was clear that both had suffered fatal wounds – one shot himself the other bleed out – and that no medical care would of changed that. Besides the police have a duty of care to make sure that environment is safe for the EMTs to operate. The whole situation was very confusing, with several hundred LEO of various agencies arriving at the crime scene and conflicting reports as to the number and status of the suspects. But ultimately if you pick up a gun and go out to rob a bank then fire at responding police you can expect to get shot end of.

    • claymore

      You saw a machine gun in that video please let us know the time where you saw it so we can all look for it.

  • Tacbear

    Attack the police..get shot. Absolutely and I know because this happened to me! Although I did not have to shoot the suspect..even though I could have.

    Our SWAT team (working for the FBI) made an entry on a murderer that executed 3 people and left 2 kid for dead. I found the suspect hiding, he pulled a revolver, I took him to the ground grabbed the pistol around the cylinder and directed his it into my body armor, screwed my SIG 220 into his left ear and persuaded him to give up.

    Later I had some officers tell me I should have pulled the trigger (some {not any of my team members}said I could have had a free kill). I know I could have done it if I had to, but I knew if the revolver he had went off it would have gone into my armor and my death grip on the cylinder would keep it from rotating.

    He was sentenced to death 2 years later.

    • Bowserb

      Tacbear, I gave a like based on your first sentence and last. In between sounds a little scary.

  • ghost930

    Excellent response by the officer. To often people who carry guns tend to overly rely on them as the first response. Had the officer backed a step to draw his own weapon, or went to gun first, he most likely would have got shot. At the range he was, physical engaging the bad guy was the right answer to the survival question. Good on him.

  • Bdpenn

    Good thing bad guy had untrained/ bad draw technique. Long sweeping draw while quickly closing the gap. Never had gun in battery before contact with policeman.
    Could of been bad for both policeman if bad guy did a proper draw could have shot first policeman from the low ready position. If so, might then also had advantage over second policeman.
    As for would of, should’t have shot the bad guy after he was disarmed. Are you kidding me. You that questioned that need to refresh in physioloy.
    Also, in the end the bad guy was facing away from the firearm on the ground. There is no way to tell what that relationship was at the time of the policeman shooting.

  • Sam Obispo

    I was taught at the police academy “There is always a gun present at every contact with a member of the public …. yours.” The attacker did not stop resisting, the cop did not know where the visible gun wound up, or whether the attacker had another weapon, or whether the attacker was trying to get the cop’s gun away from him. Play war-like games, win war-like prices.

  • Anthony “stalker6recon”

    As others have already stated, he was still struggling, and the time between losing the gun, and the last shot fired, is less than 2 seconds. In the critical moment that the officer decides to use deadly force, his focus is on one thing, putting rounds on target.

    In those nano seconds, life hangs in the balance, I choose to tip those scales in the direction of the officer, not with a few flower petals, but with an anvil.

    The police are in the most turbulent time that I can remember, with criminals being offered the free pass by their criminal peers, race baiters, and the liberal left.

    It is funny how upset liberals are about criminal thugs like mike brown, yet they don’t bat an eye, at the truly innocent lives, being slaughtered and sold for part like a stolen Honda Accord, by planned de-parenthood!

  • sonny

    Just saying what? That guy mad a bad mistake and suffered the consequences. When are these morons going to learn?

  • sonny

    Chalk up one more ….. for the good guys!

  • Tony

    You are an idiot.

  • claymore

    La la la says the man from lalaland. Try searching what a maroon and catch up with us intelligent people that are laughing at your desperation