The Hidden Benefit of Hoarding Ammo…

White-tailed_deer

While hoarding ammo and people buying it “right off the truck” is an annoyance for most of us, the increased (and sustained) buying of ammo (and guns) has benefited one major aspect–conservation.

The taxes related to the purchase of firearms and ammo contributes to the “Pittman-Robertson funds” which bypasses the US Treasury and goes directly to the Department of Interior (and from there back to the states).  This money funds things like improving lands for hunting, restoration efforts, and studies.  And by law, this money cannot be spent on anything other than effort to sustain and restore wildlife.

A pretty decent article discussing the impact of this appeared in the Grand Forks Herald: http://www.grandforksherald.com/news/business/3779504-gun-ammo-taxes-hit-record-high-2014-creates-windfall-conservation

It sounds like the bigger problem may be that some states may not be able to use all of their potential allotment due to the large increase in funds (the Act allows for a 75% reimbursement to the state; meaning the state has to foot the other 25%).  Though not necessarily a bad problem to have, as unused money rolls into the Migratory Bird Conservation fund.

So, keep buying weapons and ammo.  It benefits us all… 🙂



Tom is a former Navy Corpsman that spent some time bumbling around the deserts of Iraq with a Marine Recon unit, kicking in tent flaps and harassing sheep. Prior to that he was a paramedic somewhere in DFW, also doing some Executive Protection work between shifts. Now that those exciting days are behind him, he has embraced his inner “Warrior Hippie” and assaults 14er in his sandals and beard, or engages in rucking adventure challenges while consuming craft beer. To fund these adventures, he writes medical software and builds websites and mobile apps. His latest venture is as one of the founders of IronSights.com; a search engine for all things gun related. He hopes that his posts will help you find solid gear that will survive whatever you can throw at it–he is known (in certain circles) for his curse…ahem, ability…to find the breaking point of anything.


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  • 6.5x55Swedish

    Fees related to hunting are the only ones you don’t avoid paying until you really have to.

  • Glave

    cool
    got me thinking, could a better taxsystem be like this? like fast food has got a higher tax and it goes to medical care, tax on cars go to roads, etc etc so healthy food could be tax free

    • Ted Schoenling

      oh that is very dangerous…. and freedom sapping… This is horrid. Horrible.

      Ponder this, how often do the ‘experts’ change their mind on what is healthy? Take the egg, for example. First it is great, then it is evil, then the whites are good but yolks are bad.. then the entire thing is great, then it is bad again.

      No, giving the government power is always bad and always limits liberty.

      • TheNotoriousIUD

        Not quite.
        A powerless government would be unable to enforce laws, commit to treaties and institute (necessary) regulations.
        A powerless government would be the same as no government which I know is a fantasy for a certain segment of the population but in reality it would be anarchy.

        • TonysTake

          Anything a government is powerful enough to give you, it is powerful enough to take away. IF (big if) the government would simply stick to the powers granted to it by the Constitution, it wouldn’t be the bloated money hole it has become.

      • Darhar M.

        Has your liberty been limited?
        I have yet to meet anyone who has had their liberty curtailed by the government outside of an ex-con or two.
        A government without power would not have been able to throw together the personal needed to fight WWI, II, or Vietnam.

        Limiting the power of the government make more sense.

        • MR

          Well, we’ve all had our freedoms and Constitutional rights curtailed by the NFA, ATF, and Hughes Amendment, but those are just examples of failures to find the proper balance of government power. The proper balance is necessary to provide enough security to protect liberty.

        • john huscio

          Didn’t need to fight in vietnam in the first place. Huge waste of life and money.

          • iksnilol

            But..but communism?

          • MR

            The frenchies should have been forced to let it go after their govt. joined the Nazi cause in WWII.

    • Grindstone50k

      Gas tax for road maintenance is already a thing.

    • Budogunner

      Except that manipulates markets and infringes on freedoms. I like to summarize the 10th Amendment as follows:

      The Federal Government should have minimal powers not expressly stated in the Constitution unless with the full consent of the people, the States, and a dammed good reason that stands up to legal scrutiny by SCOTUS.

      Sadly, not many people read it that way anymore. We were once “These United States” but federal power had grown so much we no longer have the sense of being a consenting collection of self-governing communities.

      But to ask the short, simple question, “Who gets to decide what is bad for you or the environment? ” That is why we should not adopt such a strategy, if not for Constitutional reasons.

  • Your Congressman

    “And by law, this money cannot be spent on anything other than effort to sustain and restore wildlife.”

    And when I say “restore wildlife’, I mean the ‘wildlife in my pants, which I shall demonstrate, with the assistance of these two lovely, nubile teenage boys from Chicago.

  • Ted Schoenling

    Honestly, this is quite a convoluted support for socialism. Anybody who actually thinks this is a positive is mistaken.

    • RiverKing

      I think I might actually follow your convolutions. That, in itself, scares me. But I’d put this as about number 99 on my list of 100 Socialistic Aspects of Federal and Local Government to be Worried About.

    • Jay Bee

      Taxes of this sort begs for a question.

      “So you think the government can spend your money better than you can?”

      • Tom

        That is an argument that can be made, but the government is spending the money on land it has a duty to maintain and that you can use. Its not like the money is being taken from you to maintain land you (as an individual) own.

        • Jay Bee

          That land maintenance tax is call property taxes. Or land owners rental tax is I prefer to call it.

          The increase in revenue without a cap is my gripe. They should set a budget target of revenue and return or restructure the tax to meet that goal. Imagine a budget of 200 million for 2016. 800 million is brought in. Dump the tax to 1% until the fund is drawn down.

          Instead they do the opposite. They increase budget to compensate for extra funds so when the taxes drop off we hear about huge shortfalls and the chicken little sky is falling stories.

    • lucusloc

      Disagree. The government owns land, and needs to raise taxes in order to pay for the maintenance of that land. This is not redistributing tax money to private interests in the name of some nebulous “benefit”, this is directly paying to maintain public infrastructure in good working order.

      Now we can of course legitimately argue about the amount of land the federal government owns and the method of raising those taxes, but that is a policy issue, not a constitutional issue.

      edit for clarity

      • supergun

        Still infringements against the 2nd. Why not tax the 1st for running mouth.

        • lucusloc

          Because running your mouth is not an exchange of goods, buying arms is. The government is perfectly within its rights to impose a tax on things like ink and paper, so long as the tax is reasonable and general, and does not have a disparate impact on a specific entity. There is a huge amount of case law regarding these issues. Now if you can show that the tax is unreasonably burdensome and has a disparate impact on your exercise of a right then you would have a case, otherwise this is just another legitimate tax on goods and services, which the government is constitutionally authorized to levy.

          (Again, this is not to say that it is good policy, or that I agree with the tax, I am just pointing out it is probably constitutionally allowed.)

      • GenEarly

        It’s a Constitutional issue. “Federal Public” lands were only to be in Territories. NV is almost All Federal and BLM is closing off and confiscating more in many Western states.

        • lucusloc

          I am less familiar with that issue, do you have any citations?

          • GenEarly

            Yes, I do; but to quote your own words from another post…..
            “Just because you refuse to educate yourself does not mean it will not impact you”.
            Try google, I did.

          • lucusloc

            You will not that that in that discussion I provide many good starting links to further that goal, but when I have time I will see what I can find on Google.

          • lucusloc

            I am not seeing anything specifically barring federal land ownership. The clause in the constitution addressing the issue specifically mentions “territories *or other property*”. Again, we can argue about the policy of the feds owning so much land in the western state, and potential threats to liberty that large scale land ownership by the feds can engender (all legitimate worries), but I do not see a good argument against it based on our constitution.

    • KestrelBike

      Everytime you accept a paycheck you’re supporting socialism (payroll taxes taken immediately, or you pay the full FICA on your contractor 1099 to support socialism’s Social Security, Medicare, Unemployment Insurance, etc).

      • Rock or Something

        Nonsense. I accept a paycheck for my work, not because I had a choice in putting in to any of the above socialists political talking points funds.

        • MR

          The support is there, whether you intend it to be or not.

          • Budogunner

            That is like saying you wanted to have sex with a rapist whether you consented or not simply because it happened.

            There is no legal way to make a living in America without putting in to those systems. The only other choice is welfare, which is hardly the anti-socialist choice.

          • MR

            No, it’s like saying you had sex with a rapist, whether you wanted to or not. Did you pay your taxes? If you did, you supported the government and socialism whether you wanted to or not.

          • GenEarly

            Exactly, Comrade. Welcome to the USSA! (sarcasm)
            I must add that note or the Socialist ProgreSSives will “up vote” me in gleeful ecstasy.

    • Kyle

      Look out, the socialisms boogyman is gonna get you! Seriously, so what? How else would would you expect conservation to work? Just relying on people’s goodwill not to completely over hunt/fish an area?

    • Thomas Gomez

      It’s actually not. Goods are taxed. Pittman Robertson simply allocates money for conservation. I would rather my ammo tax dollars go to conservation then some bloated pet project in DC. Land and resources need to be managed. Management takes money. Sportsman play a large part in the financing. Its a Public good we use that we pay for.

      • Jay Bee

        The problem I have with an open ended 10% tax on ammo and guns is there is no cap.

        In 2007 the tax brought in 107 million.

        In 2013 the tax brought in 875 million.

        The percentage of hunters or land users probably stayed within historical averages, yet revenue climbed dramatically.

        The gripe I have is there should be caps or percentage adjustments from year to year that increases or decreases the amount of taxes users have to pay.

        Nothing pisses me off more than politicians trying to decide what to do with “extra” money. GIVE IT BACK.

        But I agree this is a “better” tax

        • Thomas Gomez

          Hey Jay Bee. I agree with you 100%.

        • BattleshipGrey

          While I agree that it should be capped, in some sense, this tax hamstrings any major attempt to restrict guns and ammo too tightly, because they now rely on this tax. Similar to tobacco. They “say” they don’t like these things for “public health” reasons, but they truly know that they’ll be scraping for extra funds as soon as these things are essentially outlawed.

          • Jay Bee

            I agree completely with the workings of the politic machine. Money talks.

            But in that same breath I would add that excepting a tax for the fear of something being taken away never works. You end up with a defensive stance vs an offensive taxes should be lower stance. Cigarette taxes increase monthly around the U.S.

            The NRA stance is always completely against whatever form of gun control is being debated. That may not be their actual view on the subject but being on the never side always makes the middle closer to them.

            I say take away all ammo/gun taxes for hope one day they will meet me in the middle.

      • Tejanojack

        You bet brother! P-R has been a boon to outdoors-men and the environment which benefits every American.

    • iksnilol

      Oh noes, SOCIALISM! If you aren’t careful you might end up like a third world hellhole like Norway or… *shudders* Denmark.

      Get real, democratic socialism isn’t the boogeyman you should be worried about. You should rather be worried about an economical system that considers workers disposable (and thusly doesn’t mind taking advantage of them) or a government that doesn’t mind drone striking people without justification (or, there is justification, only it is made by a secret group of people for secret reasons. AKA no transparency at all).

      Though this is weering of into politics. Back on topic, knowing what your money goes to directly is a good thing. Better than funding something unknown or a DC “pet project” as somebody else put it.

      • n0truscotsman

        🙂 Hey dont worry, ive wandered down this well beaten path before

      • Hank Seiter

        Give it time, America’s “conservation” efforts will end up like Britain’s “the king’s deer.” Leftism always progresses in that direction and you’ll find yourself paying higher and higher fees and taxes until you’re priced out of the market … unless the PETA crowd is able to mainstream their agenda even under a “Republican” President/Congress. RINOs are just as worthless as liberal Democrat socialists when it comes to hunters’ and gun rights. I say we have about 10 more years before we experience the full weight of Bambi collectivism. Hope I’m wrong.

        • GenEarly

          Hank, they never listen, some will perk up their ears, but once this tax money is diverted into the BLM to oust the hunters from the public lands it will be too late. Unfortunately you are correct, and it seems everyone loves the Feral Gov. when it doles their own money back to them in such “benevolence”.
          State or County would be a better alternative at least, but there is no longer a 10th Amendment……….or a viable Constitution for that matter.

  • USMC03Vet

    Sin taxes are f’n awful.

    You should be ashamed.

    • TheNotoriousIUD

      Everything is taxed, I don’t mind mine going to a Texas conservation fund.
      Also why I chose the Big Bend license plate so the fees go to park preservation.

    • MR

      Every time I see a smoker flick their ashes- or the entire cigarette butt- out the car window, I become more in favor of higher taxes on tobacco. Pull up to an intersection late at night, and someone’s seen fit to dump their ashtray out on the road.*BRILLIANT*

      • Budogunner

        That is littering, which is already illegal. I’m sure you have also seen bottles, fast food bags, and other garbage tossed out of car windows.

        Don’t get me wrong, I hate smoking. It killed my grandfather and I’m watching it kill my father, despite how my family pleads for him to quit. Still, targeting one kind of littering is as disturbing to me as hate crime law. It says that certain victims are less important than others and that we are not all equal under the law.

        • TheNotoriousIUD

          Try to get your dad on e-cigarettes. It helped me cut waaaay back.

          • Budogunner

            Thanks, that is a good idea and congratulations. I support the freedom to smoke if you choose, I just hope people I care about choose not to.

            Do you have an e-cigarette system you would recommend?

    • iksnilol

      Well, stop sinning if you don’t like it. People who drink cost society a ton through drunk accidents and health complications, only fair if it is discouraged. Same for smoking (+ smoking hurts people around you).

      Though I don’t know the American drinking culture, here in Norway they just drink til they black out and collapse onto the floor. Some of them don’t black out and get behind the wheel.

  • Plumbiphilious

    Is there any way we can goad the Dept. of the Interior into fighting legal battles on our behalf if they realize that we’re a good source of revenue (and in theory, funds for conservation efforts)?

    • MR

      Increased availability of full auto would increase ammo use, there by increasing their take from this tax, everybody wins!

      • TonysTake

        I like your way of thinking!

  • C.

    So is there a separate tax on firearms and ammunition? Here in Canada, firearms and ammunition are taxed just like any other item.

    • MR

      It’s just like the separate gas tax here, added in at time of purchase. I know it’s there, but I don’t really notice it, just part of the OTD purchase cost.

  • phuzz

    “Firearms not politics” people…

    • MR

      Yeah…BTW, it’s not gonna be ITAR that kills TFB, it’s gonna be these damned pop-up ads.

      • Budogunner

        I admit, I’m contemplating rooting my phone and installing an ad blocker just because of the TFB pop-up ads on mobile. I understand monitization of websites better than the average Joe, but there is a point where it annoys users enough to drop traffic.

        • Bob

          Firefox & Adblock plus, no worries.

          • tts

            uBlock is overall better IMO.

            uMatrix if you want more control and have the know how to use it.

            Just update the whitelists for either one and you’re good to go.

          • Sgt. Stedenko

            That would require the sheeple to be responsible for themselves.
            In this society, it’s just easier to whine and hope someone hears your cries.

          • MR

            Suggesting that TFB might want to give their readers a better experience, rather than a worse one. “Constructive Criticism”, it used to be called.

      • Sgt. Stedenko

        I guess doing a little research on how to block those ads is beyond your ability or are you waiting for some govt legislation to fix this?

        • MR

          I’m just suggesting that being annoying isn’t going to get Dasani or Verizon any of my business. Free market and all, they can buy static ads like Glock, Cabela’s, Brownell’s, or Lucky Gunner (all companies that I do business with) did, or they can continue to stick these banners in front of my face blocking the content I’m trying to view and drive me to the competition. Not interested in adding more software to my phone that’ll take up memory, may or may not work as intended, and may have unwanted side affects. Not hoping for any government regulation, just hoping that if they read it enough, advertisers will realize that a negative experience won’t bring in customers like they were planning.

  • manBear

    Unrelated … But that’s a nice buck.

    • Thomas Gomez

      Hell yeah.

    • Doc Rader

      According to Wikipedia that is a whitetail, which is one of the species that this conservation act helped to thrive.

      • Grindstone50k

        Thrive and overpopulate. They’re badly overpopulated in the Midwest.

        • Flounder

          So shoot them….
          Legally of course.

          • Grindstone50k

            Ohio recently legalized the use of non-necked rifle ammo for use in hunting specifically because of this issue. Before, it was shotgun loads only.

        • Snitch_in_Time

          A result of Bambi-ist enviro-whack-o thinking. I like the comments of an idiot woman who helped ban deer hunting in her Pennsylvania county: “I thought we would occasionally see a majestic deer move through the neighborhood. Instead herds of deer came and stripped our hedges, girdled our trees, and devoured our vegetable and flower gardens. They are like Rats With Antlers!”

          • Tejanojack

            Just wait. They will disease and die off. Sadly, it will spread throughout the regional herd and they will take years to recover. LibTards are ruining this Republic.

          • mkuisi8mo

            NOT “like”, they ARE “Rats with Antlers”!

        • Tejanojack

          Absolutely correct! You can blame the State DNRs for that and that is why wasting disease was so bad in the upper Midwest. As usual, they wouldn’t listen to hunters and raise limits. Left Wing Politics!

    • supergun

      That would be a small one in Georgia.

      • Tejanojack

        Are you kidding me? Georgia deer are runts. I live and hunt in Georgia. The biggest deer in the country are in Missouri, Iowa and Pennsylvania. I’ve lived in hunted in Missouri & Iowa too. Deer in those states are like feed lot steers. Deer over 200 pounds are routinely shot. I’ve shot two (230 Lbs) myself. Biggest deer I ever saw in Georgia was maybe 150 Lbs.

        • supergun

          We shot 300 Lbs deer down here. Got big foot stuck pulling him out.

          • Tejanojack

            Excellent reply!!!!!!!! : )

            Don’t misunderstand me; I love Georgia and Georgia hunting, but the deer down here in the coastal swamps are tiny. Nice racks at times, but never much meat..

            BTW, many 300+ Lbs deer hare shot on Midwest row crop country. All they eat is corn, beans and alfalfa and have plenty of other grains, water, shelter and natural food. No doubt central GA has the biggest deer in the state and yields exceptions to my comment, but not as a rule, Look it up.

          • supergun

            LOL. You are a good sport. You know your hunting.

          • Tejanojack

            Thanks. I got a kick out of your response. funny.

          • supergun

            You left me no choice.

  • TheNotoriousIUD

    I know, right?
    Every member of a society compromises their personal liberty in the name of security. That’s what civilization is. We can argue the degree to which that sacrifice may be necessary but I really don’t get these “no government” people.

    Yes, our government is extremely flawed but do they really think they would last a week running around the woods making cereal bowls out of human skulls? Why this is such an appealing fantasy to some is beyond me. Personally I am in favor of laws that curtail your personal freedom to get behind the wheel wasted and go 100 mph.
    I however will continue to do so.

    • john huscio

      Better idea is gut 80% of the pointless legislation that’s on the books in this country. Fewer laws = smoother running government and more freedom for everyone. I’m not making a case for eliminating it entirely, just hedging it back into something manageable……as it is currently the US government is an obese giant handing out money to everyone everywhere and sucking it up at the same rate….its cut liberties back gradually bit by bit over time so most don’t notice until they’re already in the proverbial pot…..I’d like to see us pull back from the edge and start down a more sustainable, more free path….I dunno if we are past the point of no return..

  • Grindstone50k

    ‘An annoyance’? I haven’t bought any .22 firearms because there is no ammo to be had (under gouger prices). I can’t buy my teenage niblings .22s of their own. It’s a goddamn shame on the hoarders how adversely they’re affecting the community with their selfishness. I can’t wait for them to die off and their children sell off the hoard for pennies.

    • MR

      I see it online for ten cents a round/ $50 for 500. More than “the old days”, but you can get quite a bit of target practice in if it isn’t all spray and pray.

      • Grindstone50k

        Throw in shipping and it’s still overpriced. Also, half the time it’s sold out already.

  • Thomas Gomez

    I would rather my ammo tax money go to the Pittman Robertson fund then to “anti gun” “violence research” or some other pork belly “project”.

    Pittman-Robertson
    Pittman-Robertson

    • supergun

      Build a higher, thicker wall in Texas, and New Mexico

      • ArlingtonVirginia’sFinest

        El Chapo will dig under it….

        • supergun

          Won’t be alive if Trump is President.

          • MichaelZWilliamson

            Trump, who wants to ban “assault weapons” and have “background checks”?

          • supergun

            Haven’t heard that. Can you prove it?

          • MichaelZWilliamson

            He said this in 2000:

            Here’s what he wrote about gun control:

            It’s often argued that the American murder rate is high because guns are more available here than in other countries. After a tragedy like the massacre at Columbine High School, anyone could feel that it is too easy for Americans to get their hands on weapons. But nobody has a good solution. This is another issue where you see the extremes of the two existing major parties. Democrats want to confiscate all guns, which is a dumb idea because only the law-abiding citizens would turn in their guns and the bad guys would be the only ones left armed. The Republicans walk the NRA line and refuse even limited restrictions. I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I also support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within seventy-two hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

            ~~~

            However my research just now shows his more recent comments are much more 2A.

            Though, I’d like to see some donations or actions on his part to confirm that alleged change.

          • supergun

            Thanks for the info. Times have changed since 2000. Hail, I only owned 2 guns then. But now is different. The AR 15 which is not an assault weapon is no more dangerous than any semi-auto rifle. Actually probably less accurate, but that is beside the point. A clock can have just as much fire power as an AR 15. Many pistols can. Most crimes are not committed with the AR either. My Mossberg 930 shotgun can cut a medium size tree in half. A gun is a gun. Most guns can kill~~~~~not~~~~all guns can kill, so the argument about banning the AR is much of nothing. They will come in handy if we do have a full zombie assault one day. And that is a real possibility with all the illegals being brought into the Country, not counting all the ones who are sneaking in. And I am not talking about just the mexicans.

          • MichaelZWilliamson

            I refer to my walk in closet as “The arsenal of democracy.”

          • supergun

            I had to quit buying ammo. My wife won’t let me put it in her walk-in closet. It sure looks like the ammo is finally coming down $ by $. I am focusing on AR ammo. I use to buy at least a box a week until I ran out of room to store it. Now I just buy the clearance deals. Need to shoot some of it up, I guess. Heard 22 ammo is not going to be scarce soon. Haven’t seen any 22 MAGS lately. What is with that?

      • TBW

        The new wall must have gun turrets every 100 feet… just in case…

        • supergun

          With claymores with motion detectors.

  • It’s because you put a URL in the comment

    • TheNotoriousIUD

      Didnt know that wasnt allowed.

  • Budogunner

    Much obliged, truly. My dad’s a Navy veteran from the Vietnam Era so he has a lifetime of addiction working against him, too.

  • TonysTake

    Your money, your choice in this case. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy ammo. I have some that my children and grandchildren will be shooting. Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s. Ammo isn’t ever going to be cheaper than it is today, tax and all. I look at as an investment in the future. If the price makes you nervous, load your own or take-up archery.

    • tts

      This is a rather strange POV for a gun owner or enthusiast to hold.

      After all if ammo is priced so high that its almost impossible to afford to shoot your gun or flat out impossible to get since the supply has been bought up by a relative few hoarders what you end up with is a situation that is best described as a sort of ‘soft gun ban’.

      What is the point of owning a item you can’t use because the necessary supplies to use it are too expensive or flat out unavailable? The item, in this case a gun, becomes little more than a expensive door stop or perhaps a wall decoration if it had some sentimental value.

      I somehow doubt this situation is what people in general, much less any gun enthusiast, would want. Well, unless you’re the sort who wants to ban guns altogether that is. Which I strongly doubt you are.

      Recommending people to get into reloading as a solution to this situation is no solution at all. The upfront costs with decent reloading equipment aren’t trivial and the time investment needed isn’t trivial either. Even now there are relatively few reloaders.

      Reloading supplies aren’t immune to the effect of hoarders or over pricing either. If primers, brass, powder, or dies became unavailable or too expensive to own then you’re still screwed. And shortages have happened before in the past. Are people supposed to spend big bucks to hoard those supplies too? Where does it end?

      • TonysTake

        Why can’t you afford ammo is my question to you? Big Bucks? Are you shooting a 50 BMG or what? Do you run through several hundred rounds a day? Here is my suggestion to you… Sell the 50 cal. and buy a .22 because that way, you can afford to shoot it. I have quit a few bad habits in order to keep shooting year round. Do you smoke or drink…? Oh, never mind. Of course you don’t. Who can afford that these days. Some of my guns get shot more than others because of the price of ammo, but I don’t let any of them collect rust.

        $49 for 500 rounds still makes me wince a little because I can remember the day but prices go up. It’s a fact of life because our money is not worth half of what it was a few years ago. If food gets more expensive, do you stop eating or do you switch to cheaper food? I walk past the lobsters in the grocery stores and buy the frozen shrimp. If gas gets more expensive, do you park your car and ride your bicycle? Do you only buy items when prices are high or do you wait for things to go on sale? Buy smart and save a bunch of money. Your kids will thank you.

        For a brief period of time, some ammo was in short supply but that is not the case now. That is simply a bad memory and not the situation you describe at all. Thanks to Obama, gun ownership is at an all time high and so is production. Demand is also high, but I see no shortages or price gouging, except for my fav. 30-30s. $12 for 20 rounds! Can you feel my pain? The ever popular .223 are very reasonable right now and if 30 cents is still to rich for your blood, look into a real big bad-azzed rifle like the Mosin Nagant. Ammo for that cannon is still dirt cheap. You can shoot it until your shoulder gives out without brusing your wallet.

        Life is about choices. Prices are what they are.

        • tts

          So getting I’m getting off into the weeds a bit here but this is the best reply I can think of to give to your post:

          “Why can’t anyone afford ammo these days?” would be the question you should be asking.

          Yes inflation is a thing but its also true wages haven’t risen much if at all in response to that inflation or for that matter productivity increases since the late 70’s/early 80’s. When prices have risen enough that most everyone is being impacted in a negative fashion you have to start looking at larger systemic issues and address them on that level too.

          And yes life is about making choices that are at times inconvenient in the short term to make long term gains but the information to do so accurately isn’t universally available and markets aren’t truly efficient or accurate at pricing or predicting risk. As a individual your options are limited to none when those markets do screw the pooch even if you have money reserves which few do today.

          Currently shortages are relatively short term and ammo specific vs where they were during the election time(s) but that they’re happening at all is ridiculous and a clear sign that something is very wrong here. Either with the buyers (hoarding) or the supplies (market manipulation via artificial supply restriction, which I doubt is happening for the most part) or some combo of both. The supply and price volatility can drive people away from gun ownership and we need more people interested in guns and shooting not less! Especially if you want to stave off anti gun ownership laws.

          And no I don’t smoke or drink. Besides being too expensive I’ve seen the health effects long term from doing either with anything more than mild usage and they’re horrible as well as far to expensive to afford to treat.

          • MR

            Who can’t afford ammo? I’d repeat Tony’s point, if you can’t afford the caliber that you’re currently shooting, switch to a caliber you can. .223 is pretty much back to pre-panic prices, as is 9mm, at least around here and on the net. You might need a big expensive caliber for specific hunting tasks, but that can be handled with a few rounds a year. Cheaper calibers will do just fine standing in for a majority of your practice.

  • tts

    While its interesting to know how and why the taxes on ammo are disbursed there doesn’t seem to be any advantages or benefits to hoarding ammo within that information.

    I mean the ammo is still taxed and those taxes are still spent about the same regardless if you’re buying a hoard or just buying a couple of boxes of ammo right? If so this article, and its claim, makes no real sense at all.

    • Doc Rader

      My intent was more along the lines of “all you peeps buying up ammo because of whatever perceived issues are helping to support conservation at an unprecedented rate”. You are right in that this is not a call to horde, but all of the runs on ammo have had at least had a positive effect.

      • tts

        Fair enough, maybe the article title was throwing me for a loop. Or I’m dumb. That could be true too.

    • MR

      But IF I build up a stockpile and continue to shoot, I have to continue to buy ammunition to maintain that stockpile. Thus, more ammo overall is sold, even in the long term.

      • tts

        And how is that a benefit of hoarding? That ammo will be sold anyways and is supply limited so you’re not doing anything but causing a minor bump in sales/tax revenue that is smoothed out over time.

        • MR

          If I stockpile and then maintain a consistent inventory, I’ll have bought more ammo than if I simply maintain an inventory adequate for my immediate shooting needs. If I were to stockpile, and then draw down the stockpile, you would be correct, no additional ammo would be sold. But by maintaining a stockpile, you buy more ammo. Sure, eventually it might end up in an estate sale, but hopefully that’s a ways away.

          • tts

            You will personally have more ammo but you haven’t made any changes to tax revenue. Remember its supply limited and it all gets sold whether you hoard or not. Hoarding it just means you have a oversupply while others have less supply or none at all.

          • MR

            Unless the manufacturers add capacity…which is happening. Hornady recently added several hunderd people to its workforce, Eley’s in the process of expanding its facilities. These things don’t happen overnight, regardless of how much the conspiracy theorists complain.

  • lifetimearearesident

    Speaking of ammo what happened to the ammo price survey? I just did a search and it appears to have stopped in March.

  • Goody

    I will be hoarding match components once I have some good loads worked out. Buying in bulk reduces lot variance and insures against market changes.

    My uncle owns about 10 rifles for which he did load development in the 90s. Now that’s a mission, but to have those rifles continue to perform at their peak he’s got to do it all again because many of those old components aren’t available anymore.

  • Hank Seiter

    I’m an unapologetic “ammo hoarder”. If you can’t stand the heat, get off the firing line. I’ve “hoarded” ever since Waco and have done my duty to stimulate the economy and keep those ammo production lines going.

    BTW, those who complain about “ammo hoarding” are just a bunch of unmotivated whiners who will probably be the first ones standing in line to register their “assault rifles” (sic), their .22 pistols as “potential assassin weapon of choice”, shotguns as “street sweepers” and scoped hunting rifles as “sniper rifles”.

    Just speaking truth …

  • Oldtrader3

    I just wish that some rimfire ammo would roll our way?

    • Zebra Dun

      I could live with that.

  • Zebra Dun

    For me it’s storage area to delegate for ammo supply point.
    I mean where will I put those spare 5000 rounds for each rifle, pistol and shotgun?
    Over next to the TV?
    Maybe in the head?
    Buried in the backyard by the septic tank?
    Under the bed?
    Hoarding ammo sounds cool, but it has a shelf life and the wife would kick my ass after she stumbled over “one more damn ammo can” again.

  • GenEarly

    Yep, the Obamy wouldn’t “disobey” the law and divert some of that stash in der Dept. of Interior Control to BLM. nope never happen in the USSA, comrades.

  • Except, those same agencies can use that conservation money to radically restrict hunting, public lands shooting areas, etc. That is precisely what happened in my area. (Central WA, Yakima and Kittitas Co) Most of the public land has recently been shut down for public access for shooting, and the fish and wildlife agency official started the presentation about it with talking about how they really do appreciate the shooters she was disenfranchising, if anything for the pittman robertson money we generate for her department.

  • Leigh Rich

    Who hoards. I have been accumulating since the 1990’s. I haven had to buy much the last 10 years. I’ve got mucho. Better than money in the back.

  • supergun

    When I buy ammo, it is taxed like if I bought a fan, hose, or shoes. It you add additional taxes on ammo and not on the shoes, fan, or hose then you are discriminately imposing a tax on ammo. If they can do ammo that way, then they can do all the rest of the goods that way.

  • Wolfgang Oehry

    Yeah, hire some Chinese guys, they know how to build big, long walls. Everything else here is “Made in China”, so what’s one more item… 🙂

  • lucusloc

    Wait what? What does that have to do with constitutional legality of federal land ownership? All of that may be totally spot on, but it does not mean the government is not legally allowed to own land. . .

  • lucusloc

    Again, what does that have to do with the legality of government land ownership? You are all over the place here, and none of those links are on topic. Yes, we have an out of control government, no one is debating that. Eminent domain laws are a travesty of justice and unconstitutional. Equating that to somehow mean that government land ownership is also unconstitutional is not logical, and attempting to make that connection only makes you look like a loon who should not be taken seriously.

    I said government land ownership is constitutional, you said otherwise, and when asked for supporting evidence you have gone off onto other non-topical abuses. That is not how you win someone sitting on a fence, or build a coalition. That is how you alienate reasonable people so they do not consider your position.

    • GenEarly

      Something about seeing the forest or the trees. I guess once a person is “displaced” from their property for the “greater good” at the point of a gun; It tends to jaundice their view. No, that has not happened directly to me, but I read.
      Does land seized unconstitutionally by the Feral Gov. become “legal” once seized?
      We agree more than we disagree, so I’ll leave it at that, with a lesson from history, as I am won’t to do.

      Repeating a statement made by a German about his own country during WWII, “I regret I have lived long enough to see my country betray itself”.