Police Shooting POV

Gun cop

Palestine Police Department has released body camera footage of Sgt. Green and Officer Griffin who were involved in a shooting of a suspect who pulled a gun. Warning, the video is graphic.

 

Here is the footage from Sgt. Green’s camera. Looks like he might have used a Viridian light/laser.

 

Here is the footage from Officer Griffin.

 

The officers were very lucky. If you watch the suspect take out his pistol, it feels like an eternity. His hand draws the pistol and his arm makes this long arc to swing the pistol over. If he had been more expedient and efficient, one or both officers may have been shot.

Gun



Nicholas C

Co-Founder of KRISSTALK forums, an owner’s support group and all things KRISS Vector related. Nick found his passion through competitive shooting while living in NY. He participates in USPSA and 3Gun. He loves all things that shoots and flashlights. Really really bright flashlights.

Any questions please email him at nicholas.c@staff.thefirearmblog.com


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  • Menger40

    Crazy stuff, I didn’t expect to see something like this on TFB. I hope Griffin doesn’t get in trouble for those shots fired while the guy was on the ground.

    Also, what the hell is that guy expecting to accomplish by pulling a gun with police on his immediate left and right? Shoot both and get away unscathed? Not likely. What an idiot.

    EDIT: Just looked up some details. Moron had a pellet gun. I guess he was going to try and bluff his way out? Unbelievable.

    • Dade

      Menger, she is most likely only shooting while he is down due to a lag in her processing of what she is seeing. She could also be thinking the shots she is hearing are coming from the suspect. The mind in these events is amazing, especially for someone who is operating from a startle response.

      • Menger40

        I get it, I don’t blame her one bit.

      • Adrenaline as well as the effects from the gunshot ie vertigo, would make processing of what is going very difficult. By the time you realize to stop firing you have already fired several shots off.

        • Ethan

          ^^^This. Read Cnl. Grossman’s books about post-shooting interviews. Many cops in the 80’s and 90’s reported that their guns “malfunctioned” because they just couldn’t believe they had shot to slide lock so quickly.

    • USMC03Vet

      She won’t.

      Just because somebody is on the ground shot doesn’t mean they aren’t a threat any longer. He clearly is still holding the weapon, moving, and it’s muzzle is in the direction of the officers.

      Literally perfect justified use of deadly force. Once weapon was out of hand shots stopped.

      • nobody

        >He clearly is still holding the weapon, moving, and it’s muzzle is in the direction of the officers.
        Um, watch the video again. He had dropped the gun, was rolling away from it, and was facing away from the officers when the female cop started shooting.

    • Kivaari

      Shooting the suspect while on the ground is OK. The policy and practice is to make sure hostile acts are truly done and over. Then go up, handcuff the body. He wont be able to rally and keep using his gun. It is definetly a suicide by cop. NO sane person draws a pellet gun on cops having real guns.

    • sheeny easton

      Like most of the media, TFB never misses an opportunity to stroke cop c#ck

  • Jay

    WTF is wrong with people this days. Is there something in the water or in the air?

    • Ronald Phelps

      I suspect this wasn’t this knucklehead’s first run in and he would have been jacked up badly by another arrest, so he may have had a lot at stake.

      Looks like Officer Griffin brought a taser to a gun fight. At least that’s what it looks like she drew before she pulled her firearm.

      Someone gives you a slow grin like that you need to unsnap the holster and focus on hands. Instead, Sgt. Green turned his back completely on the guy (0:17). Good thing it was really a pellet gun.

      The age of police body cams will make for a lot of this footage.

      • Paul Epstein

        I figure that’s a good thing. It’s one thing to have someone try and relate all of the little things going on in a situation that caused it to turn out like it did- it’s another to have a record of those things that can be distributed to and watched by all of the police departments out there.

        Learning from other people’s mistakes is pretty much was civilization is built on. The better we do that, the better off we’ll be.

      • nadnerbus

        “The age of police body cams will make for a lot of this footage.”

        It’s a brave new world, but it’s for the best. At the risk of getting into the political, this shoot illustrates very well why cameras on police are a good idea, for their sake as well as the citizen. No reasonable person can watch this and say the cops were in the wrong. There will be no riots for the bullet recipient.

  • TheNotoriousIUD

    A little ironic he’s wearing a “Walking Dead” hat.

  • USMC03Vet

    No sane individual would attempt to portray that as anything other than clear justified use of deadly force. Great application especially continuing to follow through on target once he hit the ground, but continued to hold the weapon, and point it in their direction. Once the weapon left his control the shooting immediately stopped.

    Well trained officers.

    Stay safe law enforcement officers!

  • hikerguy

    It was justifiable, no doubt. My questions are these: Are they not allowed to check or frisk for weapons anymore? Was he cuffed? Should have been and done so behind his back.

    • Drew Coleman

      Looks like they wanted to get him outside before they were going to check him.

      • hikerguy

        Looks like they probably should have. If the gun were real and he pulled it in the restaurant, things could have been much worse.

      • Ethan

        Yep. Nobody wants a potentially violent confrontation in a crowded diner.

    • Byron

      Not every suspect needs to be frisked and cuffed. I’m not sure why everyone seems to think that they do. They did exactly what they should have from the looks of it.

      • hikerguy

        I do not disagree with that, Byron. But, then again, if it were a real pistol he pulled out, whether outside or inside, it could have been really bad.

  • BattleshipGrey

    You can tell they maintained good training to be able to fluidly switch on their weapon lights in such a stressful situation. Good job officers.

    • NDS

      If it’s the Viridian light / laser like I have it turns on when you draw, very sweet

  • SP mclaughlin

    #policelivesmatter

    • Grindstone50k

      #alllivesmatter

      • Andrew Reid

        wonder if you say the same when someone is attacking you, trying to kill you, and cops stop doing what theya re trained to do, because #alllivesmatter

        • billyoblivion

          #mylifematters.

        • Grindstone50k

          Thanks for injecting your rant into there. All lives matter, police, black, white, gay, religious, atheist, whatever. When you violate that, then your life doesn’t matter anymore.
          Try not to be so salty.

  • Concept

    Justified shooting. I just don’t understand the female cop’s actions. It look like she drew her weapon, fired one round, put her weapon down then 3-4 seconds later fired two more shots.

    • Yohei556

      It was a taser, she drew that first then pistol.

      • Concept

        I guess I can see that. What I thought was a flash could have just been the yellow of the taser. Even in a good, justified shooting like this, things could have been a lot worse. Police training needs to be better. Police academies need to pay people who aren’t working just to come in and be used as criminals like this. Pay them $100 bucks, shoot with paintballs and you’ll get a different scenario every time. That would provide a lot better and more realistic training than just some police vets telling them what could happen or how a person may react.

    • Scott Spaulding

      I think the guy above is right.. I think she draws her taser by accident first.

    • Andrew Zebolsky

      Why’d she continue to fire after the man was down though?

      • Ethan

        You keep using this word “down”. I do not think it means what you think it means. 😉

        “Fallen to the ground” does not equal “threat neutralized”. I know Hollywood has raised us all to believe that, but that’s not the reality of gunshot wounds.

      • Concept

        I agree with the other comments that down doesn’t mean neutralized. But What ever happened to a double tap? That dude took at least 13 rounds and all 3 of her shots were severely delayed after the first cop stopped shooting.

    • Byron

      This is all me talking out of my ass before I slowed down the footage from her perspective to study what happened, without any real knowledge on the subject of police tactics:
      Her partner was already laying into him, he was going down. She fired a shot, slowed down to assess, fired a bit more when her partner was potentially nearing the end of his magazine. Male officer fired what, 10, 11 shots? I have zero knowledge of police tactics but it seemed sound. Having a partner changes the dynamic. Having one officer retain ammunition and focus on assessment while the other addresses the threat seems like a smart way to take advantage of that dynamic. Somewhat unrelated but my first thought was “talking guns.” As was said below, down does not mean dead or no longer possessing a threat. I’d say the concept behind “talking guns” in the military would be sound in suppressing this threat if the first officer’s initial volley of shots didn’t incapacitate the suspect.
      But actually, she drew her taser initially. If you slow down the footage it’s pretty obvious.

  • ColaBox

    The male officers draw speed and rate of fire with his pistol is phenomenal.

    • Nicks87

      It’s about average for most cops I’ve seen. That’s why I get so pissed when people say cops cant shoot. The reality is, most of us can shoot very well.

      • Mickey Walker

        I’ve trained many who couldn’t ….or barely qualified…… and others who didn’t want to be bothered with training or didn’t like guns. I’d say about a third of officers. The other two thirds…highly motivated and really took it seriously.
        As an instructor, it was frustrating at times.

  • Scott Spaulding

    It looks like she draws something other than her pistol first, like maybe pepper spray it definitely looks yellow. That is why she takes so long to get her pistol out and get rounds down range.

    • Scott Spaulding

      She has already realized her mistake and is putting it away.. but I almost think she should’ve just dropped it.

      • Scott Spaulding

        Its easy to armchair QB though.. I might’ve done the same thing. You could make a bit of a case against tasers with this though.

        • Concept

          hindsight is always 20/20 but the fact that she draws anything except her gun when they see a gun is a problem in my eyes. So many other people have died at the hands of cops for merely turning around, grabbing their wallet, etc. If you see a gun, why not draw your gun? Lack of muscle memory is the problem.

        • Grindstone50k

          Best thing to do is to analyze the situation, the actions of all the actors, the mistakes by all the actors, and develop plans and actions accordingly.

  • Ethan

    He moves a steak knife out of easy reach at 0:40 in preparation for the suspect to walk past the table. This officer is sharp! Also as others have noted, excellent reaction time and rate of fire.

    As for the dearly departed… it seems he died of Natural Selection.

    • Citizen J

      Wasn’t so sharp as to not have his back to the suspect the entire turn around and walk out from the bathroom. He was just a lucky Cop that the guy was drunk and carrying an airsoft toy, that Cop needs to go buy a lotto ticket, and learn his job better…

      • You, sir, are a jackass.

        • Citizen J

          Maybe, but I’m smarter than that podunk Cop.

          • CW

            You’re smater than a dog turd, I’ll give you that much.

        • RICH

          Please read my above reply to your unwarrented response to Citizenj……

      • RICH

        YOU ARE CORRECT. THE SGT. WAS SHOWING BAD TACTICS AS THE SUSPECT HADN’T BEEN SEARCHED AT THAT POINT. KLEINE…. YOU CAN CALL ANY YOU WANT A ‘JACKASS’ BUT THERE ARE TACTICAL PROCEDURES TO BE FOLLOWED FOR THE PURPOSE OF ENSURING THE OFFICERS & THE CITIZENS SAFETY….. THESE PROCEDURES WERE NOT FOLLOWED.
        @ JON…. I HAVE BEEN IN SHOOTINGS, HAVE YOU ? IF YOU HAVE YOU SHOULD BE AWARE OF YOUR BASIC SAFETY CONCERNS WHEN MAKING

        • RICH

          ……. AN ARREST ! COMES DOWN TO BASICS IS THAT THE SUSPECT SHOULD HAVE BEEN SEARCHED & CUFFED WHILE HE WAS STILL IN THE WASHROOM.

          • voldamane .

            As a former office I can say that you are both wrong. He is not searched because the officer is indeed on his game. He is not under arrest at the point they are walking him out, he is a suspect in a robbery. They are taking him out of a crowded restaurant since they know what I do and most officers do that the search is where the bad guy goes for the gun. Terry does not require arrest, but before they can throw him around they need some PC. Their orders are good use of command voice because if he says no with his body language they will be fighting in a bathroom with paper thin walls.

            And as for the officer leading, his partner is behind the suspect. Unless your partner is an idiot, your trust them, and she is a smart cop herself. Listen to her narration of seeing the gun then getting on the radio as soon as the guy quits moving, and that she fired, assessed, and fired when his gun hand remained on the gun.

          • Hail Mohammed

            True in most respects, but, do you think that the subhuman in question would have started anything if the big bloke had been behind him, ready to control him, rather than in front? Or if, you know, there’d been two standard issue 50’s cops on the callout?

          • voldamane .

            Sure. He is a squirrel from minute one. If you notice he plays it safe until he is outside then he goes nuts when the male cop turns on him to begin the arrest. Besides, you cannot simply assume every cop is 100 and 1.8.

          • Callum King-Underwood

            Your caps lock key appears to be broken

          • Ethan

            WHY ARE WE YELLING?

          • Cuffed then searched in that order.

        • NYTEX

          I have been in shooting and a retired officer in Texas by way of NY as. I to agree the procedures were not followed in this incident. For officer safety the suspect should have been frisked in the restroom and cuffed only if he was being placed under arrest. The Sgt should have never turned his back on the suspect not for any reason. Outside the execution was textbook although in my opinion the Female officers shots were later which could be concluded as excessive use of deadly force. This is an my professional opinion and is not to offend anyone or discredit the officers in the conduction of their duties.

          • Kivaari

            Time, place and circumstances. Obviously having a partner changed the dynamics of the arrest. Since it was a disturbance call ( I saw no indication of an armed nut call ) then the cops did OK. I worked in a tourist town, and there were plenty of times when giving an 86 to a rowdy customer, did not go to the level of cuffing and stuffing.
            I don’t see any trouble in how it went down.

          • Mickey Walker

            A simple and friendly frisk was justified.
            My approach….
            “Sir, I need to search you for weapons and then maybe we can resolve this quickly.”
            If he put up a fight…so be it! I’ve been in plenty of them.

          • Sicklesteel

            I sent this along to my son for his training purposes and suggested he share it with the training cadre he works closely with.

            He is a USMS SOG weapons and tactics instructor. I sent him a link and he called me back from the office right away and thanked me for sending that along. We went over their tactics on the phone as he watched it. Bottom line, they made a few mistakes but then, as he said, it is very easy for us to sit in a chair and tell the officer who survived a gun fight and eliminated a threat what they did wrong dealing with life threatening issues in split seconds in an evolving tactical environment. Said he was going to forwarded it along to Glenco for their consideration using it in the weapons training courses where the baby Marshals are shown what has happened to other officers in the field when things go south and the mistakes they made in the tactical situation they are training them to deal with.

            I feel very fortunate every time we go to the range when he is in town and my education with the law, firearms and tactical shooting continue. I have a superbly trained personal coach and instructor in my son and have become very comfortable with and am very confident carrying my weapon these days.

          • Retired 1SG

            Yeah, this is the only coherent and accurate assessment so far, have not read all the posts. Up to this point, however NYTex is spot on. They tell the perp he was a suspect in a robbery, so they had right to apprehend in restroom. IMO they allowed him time to think of egress plan and he even showed signs of insubordination when he told the female officer that they needed to get on same page. Never turn your back on a suspect, it is not about allowing or believing your partner has your six, everything should be proper procedure.
            Moving the tableware only provided the suspect with an idea that he should be “thinking” or “attempting” something. Nice work at the end, good thing the male officer held it together. Agree with female shooting late, she froze in the beginning.

          • Mickey Walker

            Absolutely!!!
            And that screeching…..that alone should be cause for a suspect to surrender!

          • Kivaari

            A suspect in a theft. Had it been a robbery call, they would have changed tactics. I’ve had dispatchers change what a call is to something of a higher priority. When the dispatcher tells you a robbery just happened, and it was a shoplifting (non-felony theft) of a bottle of wine, you react differently. It is often too hard to do a good search while stopping the suspects, all 5 of them, in a tropical storm, where you are miles from any back up.
            Just keeping from getting swarmed by the suspects while doing a search is tough.
            When making a felony drug arrest with 5 suspects and no back up, even when requested, (the chief was less than a mile away, but would not aid me), makes how you do it different and not by the book.
            The chief made me issue misdemeanor citations to felony drug dealers, then put me on suspension for 10 days. At trial the suspects actually wrote depositions saying what the chief had done. I lost 10 days of pay until I got it to the civil service commission. Not having a supportive administration, a chief that would rather see his officers killed, than to uphold the law, sometimes you have to adapt. It gets people hurt.
            I wont bad mouth these two cops. I praise them for coming out of it, and making it home.

          • Mickey Walker

            I fully agree. I too offer my profession opinion with 25+ years on the job.

        • Jon

          My response was to Citizen J not you first off. I have and I am a current LE firearm’s instructor. I have not question the fact that poor tactics where used only Citizen J’s knowledge on the subject matter. Should the suspect been frisks, sure. Did the officers fail to position themselves at a 90 degree angle from each other to prevent a cross fire situation, sure. With that said both officers went home safe that night and the suspect did not. I hope they can learn from their mistakes and move forward. As a LE firearm’s instructor we use these incidents to help make ourselves better going forward.

          • voldamane .

            If you watch crossfire only occurs for a second. In my experience it is impossible to completely eliminate crossfire when you, your partner, and your subject are in a dynamic situation. Besides if you note when the gun comes out they each step in opposite directions and solve crossfire.

            In the restaurant there is no safe angles of fire and there is no room for a terry. A gunfight in a bathroom leaves one officer out of the fight since there is no way they can both crowd in and keep their hands free. In the narrow path of the restaurant they lack good backstops, there are citizens literally gaping at them at every angle. If you terry him in the bathroom or in that narrow walk path John Q is going to be stopping someone’s rounds. Once he is outside you get again a second of crossfire that, when the rubber hit the road, did not matter since both officers properly made their converging V with bad actor at the base, and both had a long distance for their round – best that can hoped in an urban situation where even a house exterior will not backstop your rounds.

      • Kivaari

        The officer has a partner. He the partner not been there, he would have adapted to that. There is a reason for “having your 6”. It obviously worked.

      • ihatelibs

        PENIS HEAD

      • ^^^ Give a Heisman to the monday morning QB of the year.

      • Mickey Walker

        agree…

    • Kivaari

      Natural causes, since getting hit with so many bullets, it would be natural to die.

      • Ethan

        Or to quote No Country for Old Men:
        Sheriff: “Well it’s clear those boys died of natural causes.”
        Deputy: “How do you figure?”
        Sheriff: “Natural to the line of work they was in, that is.”

      • Darren

        Ethan was correct in his comment about natural selection. Had the suspect used his common sense and not drawn his weapon, he might still be alive now. Unfortunately, it seems he had the Darwin gene for natural selection.

      • Zebra Dun

        Lucky they didn’t kill Granny walking in the street down range.

        • Ethan

          Not that much luck really. I know it’s not safe by static paper-range safety standards (where there is never a reason to take risks), but in terms of real world shoots this was pretty clean.

    • ihatelibs

      Darwin Strikes Again . Glad he’s Out of the Gene Pool

  • Citizen J

    Stay Muddy, my friends…….

  • Nicks87

    “The officers were very lucky.” “If he had been more expedient and efficient, one or both officers may have been shot.”
    Not lucky just better trained. Even though this sounds more like a suicide by cop situation, the officers responded very well. Had this guy been carrying a real firearm and been trained how to use it, it may have turned out differently but I don’t think the officers could have done a better job.

  • Good shoot, what a moron drawing when two officers are near him. Almost seems like suicide by cop. Notice how the officer kept firing until he felt he had stopped the threat.

  • Taylor TX

    Seems like the drunk guy decided he wanted a fight as they went outside, glad he was drunk and waited till the worst possible time. Good shoot all day, you’d have to be crazy to argue that or maybe one of these SJW types.
    Definitely agree with other comments on the suicide by cop theory.

  • Rico

    The guy’s gun was a BB gun. Looks like the suicide by cop theorists were correct.

  • Grindstone50k

    This is why body cameras are great. Absolutely no dispute that this was a good shoot. Great reaction by both officers. I do wonder why the female officer lowers her gun at 0:51 in the 2nd video? At first I thought she might’ve gotten hit by fire from the suspect.

    • Byron

      Slow down the footage and you’ll see she draws her taser initially.

  • Larry Jenkins

    Why wasn’t he searched prior to taking outside??

    • Tassiebush

      I don’t think he was under arrest yet. They were probsbly just trying to deal with situation without escalating it.

  • Yep that was a suicide by cop.

  • Honestly we always cuffed first then searched followed by any questioning.
    Still that department policy could be different —it was a good shoot either way.

    • Risky

      I think now it’s usually frisk, cuff, search. Frisk for weapons first, if the suspect resists it’s easier to control them or go for your weapon with two free hands than fiddling with cuffs. Secondary search is really for evidence or contraband.

  • Jon

    Have you ever been in a shooting?

    • RICH

      Please read my above mentioned reply to KleineLuther…….

  • DannyBoyJr

    Looks like a clean shot to me. Which is why, as a libertarian, I want all police officers to wear body cams, which they cannot turn off.

    • Tassiebush

      Hehe but as a libertarian too I sorta don’t like the idea of being constantly under surveillance. Respect your point though.

  • BD05

    You got to be insane to pull out even a replica or that was the bitter end, the pupose of the perp.
    Suicide by cop seems to me the main idea.
    But the adequate reaction of the officer, grabbing to push him away, following by a clean shot, well done sir.

  • Manny Fal

    This wasn’t a ‘typical cop’, he had a green laser and his torch on ultra strobe on his pistol. And it did look like suicide by cop.

  • Ethan

    No, you’re just a jackass. Sorry.

    He’s a cop, not a mall-ninja like you. His tactics were exemplary.

    • Elroy

      His final response was exemplary but the man is right, they should have searched and cuffed him at the point of confrontation- not walk the guy through a restaurant before even making sure he is un-armed and cuffing him.

      • They were moving him outside prior to starting anything that could be called a confrontation, seeking to avoid a confrontation. That’s pretty normal police behavior. Better to avoid a fight than win one.

        • Elroy

          Based on what I saw in this video, I think the lesson is pretty clear: It’s better to be SURE and in control than to give a perpetrator the benefit of the doubt just to “avoid a confrontation”.

          • Mickey Walker

            Yep..

        • Mickey Walker

          Disagree…

      • Mickey Walker

        Fully Agree!

  • This man wanted to die, pure and simple.

  • Liam Winter

    Turned out to be a pellet gun. What a dumb move.

  • Liam Winter

    Turned out the gun he pulled, was in fact a pellet gun. What an idiot.

  • Jim

    As a UK police officer, I have nothing but admiration for my American counterparts, personally I’d make all suspects strip at gunpoint. The suspect should have placed his hands in the air and told them straight away he was carrying. The reactions of both officers were unbelievably sharp. U.S. Police have had tons of bad press of late, I know I wouldn’t have the courage to do their job in a country where every call has the potential to go that way that quick. They both deserve high commendation.

    • Kivaari

      I come from an era where if you didn’t already know how to use a gun, they wouldn’t even consider you for a deputies job. Now the kids just don’t seem to care.

  • Forest C. Adcock

    Ehh, watched it and my thoughts are these:

    1. What caused this, I want to know.

    2. I do not want to be “on the same page” as those officers. The last time someone was on their page, that person got shot. a lot…

    3. Seriously, did they have to shoot him that much. Taxpayers shelled out their hard earned cash for those rounds.

    4. Glad that they’re ok and that he is not. Pulling guns on cops for no good reason should end just as this did.

    5. #3 was a joke.

  • Anton Gray Basson

    That was pretty much text book. Leading the suspect outside and away from the patrons inside to a larger more controllable space, good comms, good threat response. It is sad that they had to shoot him, very few officers want to kill people. I feel for them and the suspects family.

  • Tassiebush

    What an awful business for all involved. I really feel for the officers, the guy’s family, the witnesses (especially whoever made the complaint) and the guy himself. I don’t think the police could have handled it any better. It must be awful having someone use you like that!

    • Andrew Allen

      I think they could have handled this far better. Cuff him. Search him. Do so in the bathroom where they found him? Where he doesn’t have room to draw his gun? Ill advised bullshit, trigger happy officers who wanted an excuse to shoot. Plain and simple.

      • Nope not trigger happy but less than stellar training. I posted earlier I would have cuffed, searched then questioned.
        You don;t give a suspect time to think about what’s going on.
        I have NEVER handled a prisoner this way.
        In 30 years of police work I’ve only met one who said they actually wanted to shoot someone and he was fired the next day when the boss heard about it.

        • voldamane .

          In my state cuffing ended interrogation because it was an arrest. Some departments would allow cuffing when there was no chance of an arrest, but you could not question a suspect in handcuffs without miranda, and all suspects cuffed had to be charged.

      • Grindstone50k

        So what if they tried to check him inside the restaurant and he pulled, forcing them to open fire while INSIDE the restaurant?

  • Jim_Macklin

    Depending on your computer, graphics and Internet connection the video and audio may not be in perfect sync.
    Nonlethal weapons get defenders killed when they don’t work or are the wrong device for the situation.
    A knife at 7 yards, a gun at any distance calls for a potentially lethal force response.
    Most restrooms have slick floors, not a good place to have a physical confrontation. The pavement in the parking lot is better, so is the risk to bystanders reduced.
    To our British friends, England is no longer a place with gentlemen. Many of your confrontations will involve killers who decapitate their victims or use bombs. America has always dealt with frontier violence. England had a 1,000 years of Roman and barbarian to shake out the uncivilized. USA gets about 30 million new arrivals, many of whom are violence prone.

  • jeff

    suicide by cop if i ever saw it !! he didn’t even attempt to fire just flashed his piece and started to run. maybe he thought the cops would take cover and he’d get away .. wrong !!!

  • Iblis

    Tragic. Both officers are fortunate to not have been shot. He moved the pistol around and the muzzle covered her at least. Why he didn’t fire, no one will know. Glad he didn’t. I think her shots went low, according to the laser dot. In a panic, some will fire, pushing the gun down. I think the first officer was in front to make sure the suspect didn’t flee out of the door and start a foot chase. I did notice that he moved the knife on the table. If he would have been searched in the washroom, it was only him. She was waiting outside. Two are better than one in this case. Glad the officers were not hurt in this. Also glad the cameras were there. Any lessons from this can be passed on to others.

  • RichardMitton

    PMSL. Suicide by cop. Stunning reactions from both cops though.

  • gary beckefeld

    glad the officers are ok the man never said a word that he had a gun great job i still believe he was guilty for what he did ! stay safe officers!! god bless our law enforcement!!

  • hikerguy

    Yep. Cost this moron his life. Anyway, he should not have done the stupid thing he did. His fault.

  • Andrew Allen

    What kind of trained police officer wouldn’t search their suspect! Foolish, ill advised idiots.

  • Kivaari

    His partner did have his six.

    • Citizen J

      Same partner that drew her taser mistakenly right… yeah that’s what I thought…

      • Kivaari

        Was the TASER mistakenly deployed? I think she was using the use of force scale.

        • Miffed

          Then you’re a complete idiot.. nuff said. SHe pulled her taser to DISSUADE the armed suspect. Are you even listening to yourself or just trying to save face. You’re an idiot.

          • Kivaari

            Until the suspect displayed the gun, were the cops going to have their guns out? Having been in similar circumstances, if we had no indication that a suspect was armed, and willing to use that level of force, we would not have guns out.
            A TASER is a reasonable weapon to have out, if you are getting ready to search the suspect. She was doing “over watch”, covering her partner.
            Obviously the nature of the call did not transmit the urgency of a call of “a man with a gun”. Having been there and done that, I know the public will complain about the over-aggressive cops waving guns around. Did you notice, that video from both officers showed them using their pistols? I’d say they responded quite well. No cop or innocent bystander hit, and the suspect down and out.

          • Mickey Walker

            He was a suspect and should have been frisked on the spot!

          • Sicklesteel

            …I agree with your assessment …..and that should have happened as soon as possible but we were not there and the tactical situation for our assessment is limited.

          • Kivaari

            Getting him outside was an OK move. As soon as they had him out, they went to search him. Since he was a suspect in a theft and not an armed robbery, they played it lower profile. I wouldn’t say the cops screwed up. I’ve been there when a suspect that has been searched 3 times, once by me, and he produced a .25 pistol from right behind his belt buckle. Since I had run my fingers around the pants top, I missed it as it was obscured by the buckle. Oh, well it happens. Two deputies were killed in the jail when a DUI suspect produced a pistol after being checked. They searched him like I did.
            It seems that you just were never in such a position. That’s OK, as I’ve seen quite a few such cases, from people known to the cops, and ones that were always friendly, up to that point.

          • Kivaari

            I didn’t see that at all. They had an “unarmed and not resisting suspect”. She was prepared to TASER him if he resisted. As soon as the suspect pulled his pistol out, it changed to an armed confrontation. In that instant the suspect got his azz shot. I wont fault her actions. If you have never been there when the suspect goes from cooperative to pulling a gun, it takes 1/2 of a second to react. I’ve done that a couple of times. The first time I beat the guy to the draw. It was so fast that I didn’t remember drawing my M66. Things can go very fast.
            She did OK.

        • Mickey Walker

          That shrill little girl voice does not impress me. Few women can do the job.

          • Kivaari

            I understand it having been there and done that. I was in pursuit of two guys on a motorcycle. When the driver hit a log 90 degrees to his path. I was on the radio while they were still airborne. The dispatcher said she had never heard me ever do that. Adrenaline makes us do things, like raise the voice and pitch.

      • Kivaari

        TASERs are carried in a position that makes deploying them, not like drawing a real gun. When packing a gun and a TASER, it needs to be an unusual move, so you don’t screw up. There are too many cases of same side carry, where the cop is wanting to TASER a suspect, but uses a real gun.

  • A taser is the wrong choice. When the current hits the hands squeeze which may fire the gun.
    No officer wants to kill someone but we all intend to go home at the end of the shift.

    • Eric Atkinson

      It wasn’t a gun.
      It looked like a gun, but it wasn’t.
      If you all intend to ” go home at the end of the shift,” next time you need to serve a warrant in the hood, just call in an airstrike.

      • David Sharpe

        It looked like a gun, that’s all that matters.

        A cop will not wait for a suspect to start shooting before reacting.

  • noamsaying

    He was drunk. Now he is dead drunk. I have one of those Viridian instant on green lasers on my wife’s M&P shield.

  • smartacus

    OMG!
    Thanks for telling us about the Divorce, CC.
    Another one losing everything he had in a “divorce settlement”

    Divorce Settlement usually means:
    We give your wife everything you got and you graciously agree to it.

  • Zebra Dun

    What heck was he thinking?

  • ItalianAmerican

    Why would an ADULT EVER walk around with a concealed (or even, open carried) airsoft or BB pistol? That’s something I didn’t see asked. What could possibly be more idiotic than walking around with a concealed FAKE gun. I just can’t see reason for this. Other than, one being truly an idiot in search of trouble.

  • M40

    “CitizenJ” – You apparently don’t understand that a BODY cam cannot show where the officer’s head or eyes are facing. It may well be that his eyes never left the suspect. A cam on the torso gives no real perspective on the officer’s tactical awareness.

    • Curious_G

      Well – these cams look to be on their head. You can see it on the female cop, and I am guessing the male is not 8 ft tall.

    • Kivaari

      The ones worn clipped to a pocket, tend to show the inner arms of the officers as they are shooting. Often they don’t show enough to be usable.

  • ihatelibs

    Now That was one DUMB , STUPID , IDIOTIC MORON .

  • Freddy Phifer

    Their FTO is to be congratulated. Training and constant re-training is why these officers are so good at doing their job and staying alive.

  • Daniel W

    Years, months,days, hours, of sheer boredom,followed by seconds of sheer terror.Great job Officers today you earned your pay and survived,You went home to your family.

  • Jimmy

    The other officer was there to watch the suspect and cover his back. How did the officer know there wasn’t another threat in the restaurant, and how stupid would he have been for walking backward through the restaurant? OH, not as stupid as you sound, I guess…

    • Mickey Walker

      Should have all been handled in the restroom……suspect contained, no civilians at risk, a simple frisk and done……

  • Elroy

    The only problem is they didn’t establish he had no weapon IMMEDIATELY in the bathroom. They should have done that and cuffed him IMMEDIATELY. He could have easily pulled the pistol in the restaurant and it could have gotten VERY UGLY.

  • RPK

    Both these Officers did an exemplary job. The suspect chose his course of action. His actions had consequences. At the end of watch, although they will have to live with what transpired the rest of their lives by shooting another human being, both of the Officers went home physically uninjured. Case closed. Beyond that, the internet spectator court house of public opinion (to include my own) does not matter. LEOs have a tough enough job without second guessing them when none of us were in their shoes on the date in question.

  • Winter

    As a former LEO myself I’ll say this…Well done in most areas but the failure to search the man for officer safety upon first contact, especially when they already knew is was a suspect in a crime, was a critical mistake. It’s also, sadly, an all to common one that is caused by complacency not a lack of training.

    Had the officers secured the bad guy and searched him for weapons as soon as they made contact, as they no doubt were trained to do, this shooting would never have occurred. The officer who walked out in front of the bad guy knowing the bad guy had not been searched, needs some training refreshers, although I suspect he won’t make that mistake again. One of the most common reasons for LEO’s being killed or injured on the job is complacency. I know from experience that the repetitive nature of the job breeds complacency and it’s something you have to constantly stay on top of.

    These two officers did almost everything right but that one mistake is all it takes. Fortunately for these two they got to go home at the end of the day. The video does a great job of showing folks who have no LE experience just how fast things can go from an everyday contact to a fight for your life.

  • Heisenberg

    Sarcastically- “How unjust. A white man who was in the bathroom minding his own business is harassed by two, not one, but two WHITE police officers. Yes, once outside the white “victim” did take out a pistol shaped wallet (that’s what I saw) out of his pocket and the officers over reacted by drawing their weapons and shooting him 78 times. The suspect should have been given cab fare and instructed to go to the police on his own accord”.
    Truthfully- I’m biracial white/other. The suspect got what his behavior warranted. The “result” of his behavior saved me thousands in tax dollars to defend him, and house him should he have been found guilty.

  • Heisenberg

    This may be staged now that I saw this a few times. While in the restroom the male cop tells the suspect to “get out’ ( of the restroom). Normally an officer would say, “Please step outside sir”. When walking through the restaurant the male officer asks the suspect if he has any ID and what kind of ID. I don’t think an officer would ask for that information within earshot of the patrons. Also the sparking discharge from the male officer’s firearm looks… “Hollywood”. And after being shot several time the suspect seems to lay down (and side rolling) instead of collapsing. And if you were the suspect wouldn’t you run first and pull your gun while running away? Suspicious video IMHO

  • ghost930

    Good tactics, and good call. Why? Because both Officers are alive, and the suspect was subdued (whether fatal or not isn’t material). That is what counts at the end of shift. Much as we all do or don’t like it, depending on the area and the agency, you can’t go cuffing people up like you use to do. You will get your butt handed to you in civil court for an “unlawful” detention (yes it has happened, and more than once, welcome to reality land). Should they have done a Terry frisk in the bathroom? Yeah, out of the public eye I probably would have, but my agency allows that. Don’t know the rules for their department, and trust me they vary widely across the country. Things I do in my jurisdiction, would get me fired at say San Francisco PD. So unless you work for this agency you don’t know. Bottom line, they are alive and going home, not so much for the bad guy. THAT’S what counts, and in the end it’s all that counts. Sometimes being lucky is the deciding factor, and if most of you commenters have been on the job long enough, you should know that. We have all gone home on occasion because at some time, we were just plain lucky that day.

  • Mickey Walker

    It was a clean shoot and their reaction times were superb.
    However, I would have dealt with him in the restroom …he was contained. Frisk him there first…no innocent civilians to worry about. Once they found that it was a BB gun, there would have been no shooting….only a possible fight.

  • Mickey Walker

    These body cams are a very good tactical training tool

  • Don’t Tread On Me

    To my fellow LEO brothers here that have made comments as well as to the untrained arm chair folks also.

    First and foremost, none of us were there and some of you are operating on assumptions.

    I am a retired LEO and have been involved in a shooting. I can tell you with all certainty that shootings on the street happen very fast and furious as the videos point out.

    I have been wounded in the line of duty and have buried two LEO friends murdered by evil people people, just as we see the attempt in the videos. The video was captured by both officer headset cameras riding above the ear.

    For 8-1/2yrs I investigated homicides and multiple shootings. No shooting is ever the same.

    The only thing I see in the videos is the fact the sergeant walked ahead of the person of interest. It’s not entirely clear if the deceased person was determined to be a suspect prior to the shooting taking place. Again, full benefit of a fully completed investigation. However, complacency should never be allowed while on the job.

    What we do have is video to review and I’m of the opinion that many of you haven’t replayed it over and over while stopping it at critical intervals.

    The deceased person pulled what appears to be a handgun and pointed it at the female officers head.
    * The sergeant is in position to immediately grab the suspect.
    * The sergeant pulls and spins the suspect away from shooting position to the other officer.
    * The sergeant gives the suspect a classic shove away thereby putting the suspect off balance and creating space.
    * Textbook Custody & Control Training is at clearly at play in automatic muscle memory mode.
    * The female officer acted in survival mode by crouching momentarily to escape the muzzle of the suspect handgun.
    * Sergeant begins firing until he “perceives” the threat to be stopped for the moment.
    I use the term “moment” since they have no way of knowing if the suspect will produce another firearm and shoot from his horizontal position which is a possibility.
    * The female officer appears to be justified in firing the three shots since even though the suspect was on the ground, he was still moving and only dropped this handgun as she fired simultaneously. Again, fast and furious.

    My advice here is to pick up the yellow flags and put them back in your pockets.

    I am sure both officers are under tremendous stress right now. This is a “Critical Incident” for both officers who have been involved in the death of another person. In fact, they will both need counseling to help overcome the Post Traumatic Stress that has come to visit.

    I can tell all of you from first hand experience, it is a hard thing for a long time. Being involved in the death of another although justified is not a natural incident for anyone except for the psychopathic mind.

    Make no mistake about it. The sergeant is questioning himself and has felt cold chills knowing he could have been killed due to his position while walking the suspect outside.

    Yes, this video will be used to remind and/or train officers in the importance positional safety.

    Depending on and trusting our partner with our lives is alive and well in our work as it should be. This incident is a reminder to be vigilant against the silent enemy of “complacency.”

    The common denominator in all of this is very clear, the deceased suspect escalated the incident to a deadly level which cost him his life.

    These officers could use and deserve our prayers and thanks with loads of support and reassurances from all of us, LEO’s and citizens alike.