San Francisco Bans Hollow Points And More

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In an article posted yesterday, the Supreme Court refused to hear the case about two laws San Francisco put into motion.

The first law bans the sale of hollow point ammunition. The second requires guns to be locked up inside the home.

Since the court refused to hear the case, the appeals court decision will stand and become the final word on the issue. The 9th Circuit Appeals court ruled both laws were constitutional and were not an infringement on San Francisco residents’ Second Amendment rights.

We all know that hollow points are safer than FMJ and lead ammo, which is already banned in California.

The lower courts ruled that due to modern quick access safes, the ruling on locking up your guns in your home, is not an infringement of the second ammmendment rights for the residents of San Francisco.



Nicholas C

Co-Founder of KRISSTALK forums, an owner’s support group and all things KRISS Vector related. Nick found his passion through competitive shooting while living in NY. He participates in USPSA and 3Gun. He loves all things that shoots and flashlights. Really really bright flashlights.

Any questions please email him at nicholas.c@staff.thefirearmblog.com


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  • Dat Guy

    Dear Californian politicians: FU!

    • go4it

      Probably should be “F.Y.!” …………… but what does it matter?

  • Sarig

    Gun safes are a good thing. Banning types of ammo, not so much.

    • Sianmink

      Gun safes are good. gun locks are good. Mandating them? (And how else are you going to enforce this but in-home inspections?) bad.

      • sam

        In a safe, locked, unlocked, taped to the back of a stereo speaker. The important thing, I’d say, is that individuals are allowed to choose for themselves.

        • GunTotingLib

          Then when a child kills himself or murders a playmate with your gun taped to a back of a speaker, how long should you go to jail for? Laws are to protect society from stupid people. Like the person that wants to drive 50 in a school zone or leaves a loaded handgun taped to a stereo speaker.

    • Guy Bennett

      “Sarig, I am Officer _[insert name]__, Myself and 30 other officers are here today to search your home under provisions of the Handgun Safety Act. As you are actually following the law and have a License, We are making sure that all of your guns are Locked up nice and tight.”

      • FrenchKiss

        “You can come back when you get a warrant. Until then get the F off my property.”

      • MrEllis

        The gun safe/lock thing will be a civil issue. The criminality of it is not enforceable until after the fact, there is no provision to inspect your home for a safe/lock. A peace officer is still under the same restrictions to enter your home as any other citizen. PC or a warrant must be in hand for entry. Your gun gets used in a murder or suicide and you did not have a safe/lock it opens you to being sued more than anything.

        Personally I’m a fan of safes and locks, especially if children are around. If I go out of town I even go so far as to store them in a friend’s safe and lock one up at work for when I get back.

        • Fracking Saves

          ” A peace officer is still under the same restrictions to enter your home as any other citizen.”
          Tell that to the people in Boston…

        • n0truscotsman

          Im in the camp of “if you can afford a gun and ammunition, you can afford a safe” personally 🙂

          • Dukeblue91

            You know there are plenty of poor people that had to save for a long time to buy a gun / firearm and may not have the cash to buy a safe.
            Those poor people are some that need the gun the most because of where they live i.e hoods and low income housing.
            How will they be able to get one?
            Will SF buy them one? or will you?
            It is never a good idea for any type of government to mandate of it’s subjects of what to do or how to live.
            It may not affect you today but what other rule / law in the future will hurt you?

          • n0truscotsman

            who said anything about “mandating” anything? Draw to wrong conclusions much?
            You can buy a used/scratch-dent smaller fire safe for 2-300 dollars. One that doesn’t take up massive amounts of space and doesn’t weigh a ton.

          • GunTotingLib

            Pistol safes cost a $100 and is part of the cost of owning a gun, just like someone who wants to buy a car also has to save enough money for license plates, car insurance ect.

          • I’m in the camp of “The nanny state government can suck my crank”.

          • Jim_Macklin

            Will the floor of your second story apartment support the weight of a real safe? Do you need a safe for the one gun you own, that is always on your hip?

          • n0truscotsman

            yes, provided you stay away from a 32 gun safe (they DO make small ones you know)
            Where do you store it if you go to the post office? or any other time when you dont wear your gun?

          • Jim_Macklin

            Since I live in the 10th Circuit where the Federal Court ruled the post office parking lot is not a gun free zone, not much of an issue. All other times my gun is on my belt, loaded.
            Didn’t bother the dentist, they did not know it was there or they didn’t care.
            Kansas is a free State in a Republic.

  • A.WChuck

    S.F. = Rich easy targets. There is a lot of friction between the haves and havenots in SF, so I can’t see this ending well for those who actually follow the law. So glad I left Cali so long ago.

    • derpmaster

      The have nots are almost entirely gone. They have been replaced with recent college grad code jockeys who are all paying $3000/mo to rent a 750 sq ft apartments. The economy out in the Bay Area, plus their unwillingness to build up or build out, has totally priced out the poor. Even out in Fremont or Newark the prices are ludicrous because housing is limited to two stories.

      • n0truscotsman

        “The have nots are almost entirely gone.”

        Yep! They’ve gone to Oregon, Idaho, and other neighboring states. You see them camped under bridges and in homeless shelters. Its a disaster.

      • Lush Rimbaugh

        Been to China Basin lately? It’s real down there. Not a Subaru in sight. Thugs line both sides of Market Street day and night. Mission district, lower Haight, and the tenderloin are all mini melting pots where tempers flair on a daily basis. What is gone is the middle. What you have now is exactly haves and have-nots.

      • supergun

        Wait for a few years. The place is doomed.

    • supergun

      There are much much much better places in America. That place will be the first to go.

  • TheNotoriousIUD

    Screw that, you can come and put my alive ass in jail. My guns are staying loaded and within reach at all times.

    • nadnerbus

      Thankfully it’s mostly an unenforceable law. I suppose if the police are searching your home for some reason, you might get in trouble, but if they are doing that, you are probably screwed anyway.

      Just another feel good law passed by people that think you can legislate around common sense and responsibility.

    • supergun

      The city has done an excellent job is disarming the citizens, while the thugs are fully swat team armed. It is going to be fun watching San F turn into another Chicago. And they think the police is going to protect their sorry a$$e$.

  • ZMD

    Does the gun safe law only apply to pistols or to all guns? If the latter, how could it possibly not be remanded in light of Heller?

    • Ben

      That’s what we are all wondering. It’s like they have forgotten what they wrote just 7 years ago.

    • Rock or Something

      From what I understand, the DC gun laws were far more draconian (if you can believe that). At least in San Fran, I believe you can store your loaded pistol in a safe. In DC, heaven forbid you had your firearm in any working order or even in one piece when not in use at that exact time.

  • Phillip Shen

    Slight correction: lead ammo is only banned for hunting in CA, not for SD or range use. But yeah SF (and CA in general) has some pretty silly regs

  • Sianmink

    Good thing there’s already workarounds for the hollowpoints.

    • Swarf

      Which is what?

      Genuine curiosity, not sarcasm.

      • Fracking Saves

        Powrball, EFFMs, and Glaser.

      • Ben

        Also it’s only a ban on sale, not possession. SF residents can continue buying hollowpoints in neighboring cities.

        • Rock or Something

          Trafficking clause to be inserted in 3…2…1…

      • Sianmink

        powrball, glazer, guarddog, critical duty/defense. Some of the best hollowpoints on the market happen to not be true hollowpoints.

  • Hank

    I once lived in a city that required such, including an annual police inspection of the safe.

    It was in Russia in ’96. We lived just two blocks from the formerly-known-as-KGB building that was affectionately known as the Tower of Death. And some days I think I was freer there than I would be in CA.

    • guest

      During that time firearm owners in Russia were not required to store weapons in a safe, nor pass an annual “inspection”.
      Too desperate trolling “Hank”, too desperate…

      • supergun

        Infringements against the Constitution is not trolling. But scales on your eyes are.

    • supergun

      The reality is, that our neighbors are the ones who elected this hoodlums into office to make these illegal gun laws against the Constitution of the United States of America.

  • michael franklin

    Just to be accurate, lead ammo in Ca. in banned only for hunting.

  • David

    More proof that this once-great country is F’ed

  • Tim Pearce

    Dear Mexico, we have changed our minds. Can we get a refund for returning California to you? We are willing to pay a restocking fee.

    • Salemslot

      Naaaaa keep it, at this rate gun laws in California will be more stringent than the gun laws in Mexico

      PD: We accept Las Vegas

      • supergun

        You have to take harry reid with the deal.

  • MAF

    Luckily, there are decent non-HP self defense bullet designs out there, such as the Powrball, EFFMs, and Glaser.

    • Ben

      Also this law doesn’t ban possession, just sale. So San Franciscans can simply drive 20 minutes to a neighboring city and buy all the hollowpoints they want.

      The law is an obvious attempt to get rid of the single gun store still operating in SF.

      • nadnerbus

        Which is amusing, as doing so will have exactly zero impact on any gun crime statistics for the city.

        I’m more thankful the courts overruled the statewide internet/mail order ban passed a couple years back. Would have a required a special ID just to buy ammo at a brick and mortar, as well as a thumb print.

        Doesn’t matter much. We have a full time legislature with nothing by time on their hands to push stuff like this. Then we get to pay the taxes that pay for their legal defense in court before they are struck down. No matter what happens, we lose.

  • Sulaco

    So does this JHP ban apply to the cops as well?

    • MrEllis

      Police are usually exempt from firearms laws. In Texas, one year they forgot to add the traditional kicker that Law Enforcement was exempt from certain laws and it technically was not legal for us to carry a firearm openly for a few days. Because, you know, lawyers.

  • UCSPanther

    San Francisco is a hive of “Progressive” insanity.

    • hikerguy

      The authors of this law were never accused of being the brightest bulbs in the box.

      • UCSPanther

        Knowing San Francisco’s history from the 1970s onward, that is no big surprise…

  • allannon

    So, if someone were injured (in the legal sense) due to the requirement of guns being locked, would they have standing to sue the city?

    • Jim_Macklin

      The city has a royal privilege, you can’t sue government. Sovereign immunity plus voter apathy equals SFO.

  • Lance

    This is not news this have been law in the Repubic of kalifornia for years. You got to be pretty short shitted as a gun owner to live in the heart of the fascist beast: San Francisco.

  • BattleshipGrey

    I think both aspects of the ordinance is stupid, but particularly the required safe. Owning and/or carrying guns has always been a “pay to play sport” due to the cost of the gun and ammo, but requiring someone to purchase an entirely different piece of hardware to own a Constitutionally protected item is wrong.

    It seems to me that this is similar to telling people exercising their 1st Amendment rights that they can only exercise those rights by using Apple products.

    • nadnerbus

      Most of the regulations passed in this state have less to do with safety and public well being and more to do with raising the cost and hassle of gun ownership.

  • RicoSuave

    Will they have random spot checks of homes to enforce that firearms are being stored as per this law ?

    • Zebra Dun

      Well they are infringing the 2d, and may as well go for the 4th and 5th as well.

  • YS

    So, sale of HP is banned but ownership is still ok? Just out of curiosity, how do they define hollow point? If I fill the tip of the hollow point with wax/plastic/powdered metal, is it ok?

    Sounds like just another knee jerk law.

    • go4it

      Subtract the “knee” part and you got it!

  • John Hoegemann

    How much weed do these people smoke?

    • Lush Rimbaugh

      This is not the weed smokers this is politicians with pockets needing to be lined. Simple case of suits sucking up to Bloomberg and Soros.

      • avconsumer2

        I imagine he was referring to constituents, in which case… A WHOLE LOT.

  • Uniform223

    San Francisco bans hollow points… well that place is over populated with hippies. The whole “keeping a fire arm locked up” isn’t so much of a law (my personal opinion) but is BASIC COMMON KNOWLEDGE.

    • GunTotingLib

      The parents of the hundreds of children that shoot themselves and their playmates probably agree with your Opinion. Very FEW americans will ever be in a position that the 2 extra seconds that is required to open a modern biometric gun safe when you go to retrieve your gun will make a difference. And it will save hundreds of children’s lives each year. Yea it is cool to make up the scenario when that 2 seconds makes a difference but you have a better chance of being hit with lighting while you shower on a wednesday. Carry your gun or secure it. That used to pass as common sense gun ownership.

  • Jim_Macklin

    Lets see, 2008 SCOUS says it is unconstitutional to require guns be locked, 2015 the Court did not remember any duty to enforce previous decisions.
    In 1939 it appeared that the Court protected modern military weapons, but were not sure about shotguns. VP Biden says a double barreled shotgun [sawed off?] is what you need.
    Just abandon California, there is no water to drink, who can remember Goldwater suggested the country might be improved if SoCal had an earthquake and slid into the ocean? Maybe that was just a MSM misquote, but it sure seems appropriate.

  • Marcus D.

    Let’s be clear about a few things that the article got wrong:
    1. As someone else noted the “ban” is a ban on sales by the only gun store in town, and to internet sellers. It is legal to buy HP ammo everywhere else in the state (though that will likely change as a result of this refusal of review), and it is legal to possess and use them.
    2. The storage law applies ONLY if the firearm is not in one’s immediate possession (on the body). So you have to lock up when you go to sleep or shower(what nonsense) or leave the gun in your home/apt while you are away (which is always because no one in SF gets CCWs).
    3. Yes, it is a stupid law. It was the City Council’s attempt to see how much they could impede the presence of firearms in the home without contravening Heller. Which they did, but the Ninth, applying the wrong legal standard, did not see it that way.

    • supergun

      The court wimped out. Plus they have a judge who should not be a judge, or even an attorney for that matter. When the courts fail to protect the citizen’s right, then we are in BIG Trouble.

  • ghost930

    Great, so now we have people living in a very tightly packed (ie adjoining walls) urban environment forced to shoot FMJ pistol and rifle rounds for self defense. I’m surprised they aren’t forcing the SFPD to carry FMJ on duty as well. Apparently, absolutely no one in the SF government thought, “hey, let’s ask a firearms expert about this idea” before we make it a law. I will be waiting for the first accidental death by an over penetrating round, or ricochet to hit the courts. I guess you can use the defense that you were forced to carry an unsafe self defense round by the city government, and both the shooter and the victims family could sue the city for a couple of million for enacting an unsafe law. Guess we will see.

  • Dave Meuchel

    So they ban hollow point ammo, leaving just full metal jacket (aka ball ammo) which is proven to be far more likely to completely penetrate the bad guy and end up hit some innocent bystander down range. Smart……(not).

  • Charles Applegate

    Am I allowed to carry a pistol on my hip while in my home? How am I supposed to get my firearm out of the house to practice or to hunt?

  • idahoguy101

    What’s going to happen when the Mexican and Mexican-American majority of California replaces the USA flag and raises the Mexican flag?

    • Zebra Dun

      Nothing for two days..then there will be a shortage of Guacamole.

  • Random Disabled Person

    Fill hollow points with Mercury? or some other chemical….. Complies with new law (if no longer hollow and sealed and not lead if accused of hunting bad humans….) and makes things worse wound wise. What was that ruling about using wax from back in the day? We have come a long way from people putting notches and crosses on the tips to help with ballistic damage.

    On the hopeful side the SCOTUS refused to hear this appeal, that means if they charge someone it could come back up or another lawsuit could back before the court. They have limit room for case dockets, which is good and bad. Some things are appealed because the the goal is the money spent will cost less than the court’s decision/opinion might cost and open up for lawsuits. The supreme court will supposedly free from influence by being placed for life, is far from what our founding fathers wanted for an independent court system free of party politics.