Police Department Guns’ “actually fall apart”

Glock23

When I hear about a problem with a Glock, I know its going to be a Glock chambered in .40 S&W. The Bardstown, KY POlice Department are replacing their Glock 23 pistols after the guns started falling apart from hairline cracks they developed. Officers who cannot bring their own gun to work, or use one of the departments spare sidearms, are having to make do without a pistol. WDRD reports

The issue was discovered on the Glock model 23s during recent training practices. Those guns were purchased back in 2000.

“It’s a hairline crack, Roby said. “But with a little pressure you could spread it open. And .40 caliber is a high pressure handgun.”

Cpt. Roby said, over the years that pressure adds up. He said officers continually train with their weapons. Many even practice shooting on their off days.

“What people don’t understand is police weapons take a lot of abuse,” said Cpt. Roby.

After about 15 years of wear and tear, the police department will receive $12,000 from the city. That money will be used to purchase new guns after the severity of the cracks was demonstrated to council members.

In defense of Glock, the pistols should have been serviced a long time ago. You don’t allow an entire police departments guns to completely wear out until they literally start falling apart before you send them off for servicing.

Thanks to Tom for the tip.



Steve Johnson

Founder and Dictator-In-Chief of TFB. A passionate gun owner, a shooting enthusiast and totally tacti-uncool. Favorite first date location: any gun range. Steve can be contacted here.


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  • shotitall

    Ditch 40 already! With all the great 9mm rounds out there, there is no good reason to go with 40 anymore.

    • Greekpreparedness

      ditch the surface heat-treatment of Glock a.k.a. Tennifer finish.
      in my shooting sport I have already seen three 9mm Glocks cracking..

      • TheNotoriousIUD

        I cant, I named my daughter Tennifer.

        • FourString

          Tennifer Lawrence?

      • Ben

        I would be surprised if it was a metal component of the Glock cracking. While they didn’t specify, I would guess that some part of the polymer frame is cracking.

        • Vitsaus

          Agreed. All the non-Kaboom Glock destruction I have seen in person was cracking frames, slides seem to hold up pretty well. Even though I’m not a Glock fan boy, I can say that I’ve only seen about 3 glocks in my life that had cracked frames (again, non ammo related as I don’t count those as the gun’s fault).

      • Sledgecrowbar

        Tenifer is the same ferritic nitrocarburizing type of case-hardening that a lot of quality gun parts have, it’s just a trademark name like Melonite, which is identical and used by S&W, HK and others.

    • hikerguy

      Please tell that to the U.S. Army. They do not seem to think the 9MM is up to snuff anymore.

      • Tom

        The military is restricted to FMJ the police are not so its not a reasonable comparison at all.

        All that being said the difference in effect between 9mm FMJ and .40 S&W FMJ are so tiny as to be irrelevant in any real world situation.

        • Hyok Kim

          What do the SEALS use?

          • Tom

            9mm SIG P226 IIRC.

          • Hyok Kim

            “All that being said the difference in effect between 9mm FMJ and .40 S&W FMJ are so tiny as to be irrelevant in any real world situation.”

            I think you’re referring to terminal ballistics per round only.

            One can carry more 9mm within a person, one could dump more 9mm within a given time, and one could get a better grip with a gun designed for 9mm.

          • Tom

            Very true but I think the question was framed very much in the sense of the effect on target of said round. Thus if we lived in a hypothetical world of single shot pistols which would be the better round? My argument is that with FMJ the difference between 9mm and .40 S&W is too small to be appreciable in actual use rather than say shooting into gel or phone books.

            Of course in the real world the advantages you list can not be discounted leading us I think to an agreement that 9mm is a “superior” round combining greater capacity with only a tiny decrease in lethality.

            Though I would take exception to the idea that a 9mm is inheritantly more comfortable to hold. Most .40 S&W are simple 9mm frames but carry less rounds, actual dimension of the grip are the same.

      • n0truscotsman

        They opened the possibility of something besides 9mm being adopted, which they did the same with the ICC, provided the manufacturer provide their own 5.56 alternative.

        Practically they wont though. Ever. Unless something groundbreaking comes down the pipeline.

      • DonDrapersAcidTrip

        stop repeating decade old firearm memes

        • hikerguy

          But it is what it is….History repeats. 🙂

      • Hyok Kim

        US Army doesn’t think very highly of any pistol rounds for the purpose of winning the war. It’s been a sideshow that pretends to be something more.

        • hikerguy

          True. If you are down to your pistol in a an encounter, then your day has been a bad one.

    • Spencer W

      I don’t think there ever was a good reason to begin with. It was the ladies 10mm that wasn’t really a 10mm. My view is all or nothing, 9mm for round count, .45 for bigger hole, 10mm for not a small hole that happens very fast. The 40cal compromise offers no advantages.

      • FrenchKiss

        Wrong. The .40s&w does what it was designed to do very well, and better than either 9mm or 45acp. And that is: to penetrate glass, metal or wood and incapacitate the target. 9mm doesn’t have enough mass, and 45acp is to slow. The FBI and 70% of police departments agree. Even great shot placement can’t help when there is a barrier to penetrate first.

        • CommonSense23

          You realize the FBI went back to the 9MM right. They dropped the .40 due to not enough benefits(and a lot of negatives) compared to the 9mm.

          • FrenchKiss

            So what? The 40 did do what it was designed to do.

          • CommonSense23

            So what? You tried to use outdated info that directly contradicts what the FBI states about 9mm and 40.

          • FrenchKiss

            Okay, forget the FBI data. The 40 STILL does what it was designed to do. So. What. Again.

          • Larry

            Ftrnchkiss, the 40 S&W is a better round if the shooter can handle it. That being said, reports from the FBI and many police departments report many in their departments had problems qualifying, due to increase recoil. so as you have stated the 40 S&W does what it was design to do if you can hit the target. Enough said!

          • Hyok Kim

            Another word, given everything else equal, 9mm is better in the real world.

        • Spencer W

          I have read the FBI report on ballistics and I stand by what I said. They went with 10mm and the women and small men did not like it(pansies) so they dropped it and have now found they want the higher round count of the 9mm.

          You know, I have found that finding the 40cal fanboys is a lot like finding a vegan at a party, don’t worry about it they will let you know. haha We can all look at the same datta and come to a different conclusion and that’s good that is how the world works. I have my view and you have yours and it’s all good.

          • FrenchKiss

            Sorry, I’m not a fanboy. I like the 40 for the purpose it was designed for. Use the right tool for the job.

          • Spencer W

            It was just a little joke to get a chuckle, I was not being serious. I am glad you are able to use a round that meets your requirements.

          • Hyok Kim

            .40 was a gimmick designed to sell more ammo and more guns, nothing more.

          • DonDrapersAcidTrip

            are you a fifteen year old or just indistinguishable from one on the internet

          • Spencer W

            Are you so insecure in your opinion that any differing one makes you feel threatened or does it only look that way on the internet?

          • DonDrapersAcidTrip

            I’m not insecure in my opinion that you are embarrassingly idiotic? Pretty secure in that actually.

          • Spencer W

            Haha you sure? From the looks of it you are so insecure that all you can do is insult others when their views differ from your own.

          • DonDrapersAcidTrip

            “all you can do is insult others when their views differ from your own” the battle cry of every single shitbird who has no problem spouting their garbage opinions until the minute they get called out on it and they start stomping their feet and throwing a pissy fit

          • Spencer W

            Now, now, the full quote is “From the looks of it you are so insecure that all you can do is insult others when their views differ from your own.”

            I see by your response it is not just from the looks of it.

          • DonDrapersAcidTrip

            You don’t actually have anything to say except tired ass macho bullshit memes

          • Spencer W

            Ok now you are really boring, I am not going to deal with pathetic people like you on this article anymore. Before I go a bit of advice so you might not be so dull and predictable next time we meet, do some reading on psychological projection(I’m sure you will have extensive insights).

          • DonDrapersAcidTrip

            “you might not be so dull and predictable” says the guy who said literally nothing lmao

        • john huscio

          Why’s the FBI switching back to 9mm if the .40 is such a showstopper?

          • FrenchKiss

            I never said it was a show stopper. I said it does what it was designed to do. Better than the 9mm or 45acp. I am in fact a 45acp fanboy. I really don’t shoot 40 much, though I do own 1 40cal pistol.

          • Hyok Kim

            Because they found out the hardway, 40 is a gimmick.

        • Hyok Kim

          9mm penetrates better. Incapacitation depends on whether a vital organ was hit. The optimal probability of incapactation depends on how accurate, how much penetration, and how many shots are fired within the given time.

          Not only 9mm penetrates better (given everything else equal), one can carry more of them within easy access, one can grip the gun more comfortably (given everything else equal), and as a result one can shoot more accurately and shoot more of them within a given time.

          • FrenchKiss

            Your ignored. Don’t respond to my posts.

      • jlkjlkjlkjdd

        “It was the ladies” is bs and we all know it. Most dudes can barely shoot, most dudes shoot 40 worse.

  • “Officers who cannot bring their own gun to work, or use one of the departments spare sidearms, are having to make do without a pistol.”
    Wow, that is just crazy.

    • Ben

      Do none of the officers have extra handguns that they can share??

      • I don’t know, I don’t work there.

      • I seriously doubt the department would allow an officer to go on duty without a handgun. Every department I’ve ever been around has some spares around.

        • MrEllis

          No officer is allowed to go on duty without a firearm. The captain that was speaking said he brought a personal firearm into work. Most agencies, everyone I’ve worked for or come into contact with, allow you to carry personal back-up you qualify with. I don’t see why they would object to you carrying another personal gun you qualified with at some point. For liability reasons you have to demonstrate proficiency.

    • Techniq-

      Not true. No officer “makes do” without a pistol. Maybe not their pistol of choice, but still have sidearm.

    • jlkjlkjlkjdd

      Not really. Cops are more likely to die in a car wreck than in a shootout.

      Last year, police also killed at least 100 times more Americans than ISIS did.

      Those animals can do without guns… though I’m sure they’ll still have handguns, and this is just a sob story.

  • Southpaw89

    Would be interested in an estimate of how many rounds were put through these before failure.

    • Ben

      Figure out how many rounds the police officers are required to shoot to qualify every year. Multiply by 15.

      • David Sharpe

        That would be a little low, they do train, on their own time or police time.

        • Ben

          As the son of a police officer who carried a G23 for almost two decades, I saw him shoot it maybe a dozen times on his own time. And that dozen times was always the week before qualification. Sure some cops are gun guys, and practice a ton on their own time, but most aren’t. And that is a problem.

          • claymore

            And you know this from living with one cop? How many other officers did you interview before making your specious SWAG?

      • john huscio

        Somewhere in the neighborhood of 6,000 rounds

  • Sulaco

    My old departments SWAT team had to order less powerful ammo in the 23’s and 22’s because it was damaging the guns over time. But then they shoot ALOT. Most of them have gone back to 9mm for a lot of factors including problems with the .40’s. No reported similar problems with the 9mm versions which the pistols were originally designed around…

  • Spencer W

    I always hate to read or hear about the “wear and tear” anything in law enforcement gets other than the vehicles. I have yet to meet an officer that shoots more than the yearly qualification with their duty weapon, which is dependant on the department/state but is never much at all. Most that I have met do not even practice with their personal firearms(and the ones who do never use the same type they carry on duty).

    In my personal experience with a department issue G23 it was the worst shooting gun I have ever used. It was snappier than a P3AT, had the worst trigger I have ever used, so bad I have no idea if it could hold a group to save your life beyond 10yrds(seriously) and the gun was so small it could make you bleed just by inserting the mag. My fathers experiences with the G23 was no better. He has had the front sight break off twice once while qualifying once on duty, the rear sight almost fall off at the end of one day, he also had the mag bite him and bled all over the thing making it as slippery as an eel again while qualifying. To me the gun is the worst of all worlds, in other words a “good compromise”.

    • Nicks87

      This is the worst comment I’ve ever read on this website. So much of it is nonsense I don’t even know where to start. Spencer W, you should be ashamed of yourself for perpetuating these lies, myths and strait up BS. The only thing that gets “wear and tear” in Law Enforcement is the VEHICLES! Get the F— outta here with that garbage!

      • Spencer W

        The worst? Haha keep reading. Can you clear up what were the lies, myths and straight up BS? “The only thing that gets “wear and tear” in Law Enforcement is the VEHICLES?!” That is not what I said. I was implying that the only thing I see getting accelerated wear is the vehicles. Having lived in a law enforcement family for over 26 years I don’t think I would qualify as clueless.

        • claymore

          You must be the black sheep in a Barney fife one horse town if you live with law enforcement and still spout these falsehoods.

          • Spencer W

            People never really gave me a chance to piss them off or aggravate them with my opinion in the town where I grew up. They had already made up their minds to hate and attack me verbally and physically anyway they could, just because of who my father was.

            I really do appreciate the privilege I have here to make people angry by having my own opinion. Thank you.

          • claymore

            LOL you just admitted to being a troll. Good work.

          • Spencer W

            Projection. Calm down I won’t take your place.

          • claymore

            You couldn’t you don’t have the skills

      • Ethan

        Well… that escalated quickly.

        I also disagree with Spencer, but damn dude… are you having a moment or something?

        • Nicks87

          It just makes me mad when people regurgitate stuff that they heard second hand that isn’t even true.

          • Ethan

            Well that is their choice, and your reaction is fully your choice.

    • James

      How the hell does a mag bite someone?

      Idk about your crazy experience but every .40 cal Glock I’ve shot has been just fine. My brother was issued a g23 and ran quite literally tens of thousands of rounds through it without any problems.

      My g27 has about 1k through it without issue and can hit anything it’s aimed at inside of 50 yards. I’m sure it can do better but I’ve never really shot it much at more than 25-30 yards.

      Just because some po-dunk (sp?) town can’t service their guns more than once every 15 years doesn’t mean much. The .40 Glock is one of the (if not THE) most widely used guns in law enforcement. I find it hard to believe that they all suck so bad.

      • DrewN

        I have a 35 with over 10k .40 through it PLUS another 2500 .357 Sig, PLUS another 1500 rounds of 9mm. It’s been thru a bunch of springs, and some ill advised grip shaping but otherwise no issues. Caveat: 90% of those rounds were practice ball.

      • Spencer W

        Being 6’2″ and my Father being 6’3″ we have big hands and the grip was way to small for a duty weapon for us to the point we had to hold the thing with our thumb and 2 fingers with our palm off the grip just to keep the mag from pinching us.

        As I said it was my personal experience.

        As for it being a widely used model does not mean it is the best tool for the job. To each his own.

        • Nicks87

          Now I really know you are full of it. Glocks don’t have small grips. Their grip is considered large compared to most handguns. I’m 6’2″ and I wear 2XL gloves. I can shoot a G26 without a mag extension and I don’t get pinched.

          • Spencer W

            Interesting to see that you know my hand and my father’s hand better than we do. Out of the two of us I don’t think it is me who is full of it.

          • Nicks87

            I know your father should’ve put his hand upside your head for spouting such nonsense on the internet..

      • Tom Currie

        A G27 that “can hit anything it’s aimed at inside of 50 yards” is being aimed at a barn — from the inside!

        • sliversimpson

          Most folks that can’t handle recoil very well seem to feel that way.

          • Tom Currie

            Recoil isn’t the issue, even with the miserable non-ergonomics of the Glock 26/27, but a short barrel and short sight radius, combined with those miserable ergonomics make these basically belly guns. You could point shoot one of these toys as well as any aimed fire, at that sight radius there wasn’t really much point in putting sights on them. Anyone who claims to get decent grouping with a G27 at FIFTY YARDS is either shooting from a machine rest or full of crap – especially when they admit rarely trying to shoot beyond what they call 25-30 yards.

          • sliversimpson

            I’m not trying to troll you, but I have a G27, and until I got used to the different recoil impulse, I couldn’t make long shots. If you watch Hickock45’s videos, he was able to hit a 200 yard gong with his G27… Pretty impressive, but he is truly an expert shooter.

          • James

            It’s a g27. I carry it and train for realistic self defense situations… mostly inside 15 yards.

            That said I have shot it at 25 yards 50 yards and 100 yards on a range so I know for a fact that the distances were exact and I also know I can make hits at all those ranges.

            Will it group like my king cobra? No. But I can make center mass hits out to 50 yards quite easily. Not fast mind you, but easily. 100 is quite a bit harder but doable.

            If you can’t well that’s too bad for you but don’t say it can’t be done… that just makes you sound like an ignorant jackass.

            Bottom line is they are reliable under any reasonable situation. If you don’t like glocks for whatever reason DON’T BUY ONE. If you are issued one and hate it too bad. Learn to use it well anyway. It’s your life on the line.

          • Nicks87

            My Glock 26 is my favorite pistol. It’s just as accurate as my G17 that I have set up for competition. Sometimes I wonder why I still use the 17 when I shoot the 26 just as well. As far as ergonomics is concerned, it’s more about personal preference. I like Glocks, they fit my hand well, they point well and they are comfortable to shoot, for me. If you don’t like Glocks then just say it and be done with it. No need keep bashing them because don’t work for you.

        • Franco

          You obviously haven’t watched Hickok 45 shoot his favorite handgun the glock 27

        • Ethan

          If you develop a chronic flinch, then yes.

      • The 17 and or 19 are used more than the 22 or 23.

    • USMC03Vet

      Duty weapons get slammed, banged, and roughed up routinely. They don’t have to be fired to have major wear on them.

      • Very true!

      • Spencer W

        True. Though the only ones I ever heard about(never saw it) getting major wear from just being carried were on very big guys, most who should really not have passed the physical.

        • claymore

          So now we know why you aren’t in Law enforcement ….couldn’t pass the physical.

          • Spencer W

            Does your mommy know you’re on her computer?. I mean only a child would say crap like that.

          • Nicks87

            The only childish comments being made are by you. Your comments are baseless and insulting. Please do some actual research before posting in the future.

          • Spencer W

            “The only childish comments are being made are by you” No, he was calling me fat or weak for no reason and I found that to be quite childish. Just like when you are calling my personal experience “baseless and insulting”. My personal experience is what it is, mine. I am not trying to sway anyone one way or another.

          • claymore

            And only a child would post the specious BS you have been posting.

      • Hyok Kim

        Why I believed in forged, not MIM.

    • sliversimpson

      The annoying thing about articles like these is that people allow isolated incidents like these to perpetuate myths.

      I can’t speak from your experiences, but I too come from “law enforcement family.” A family member of mine works for one of the five largest police departments in the U.S. was carrying a Springfield XDm (chambered in .40 S&W). The sidearm was approved by the department but was removed from the approved weapons list due to a trend of failures. You know which weapons are still on the list? The Glock 22 and 23.

      This is a gigantic agency, and each officer is given an equipment allowance through which they must purchase and maintain their sidearm.

      So, yes, this agency may have seen some failures, but let’s be realistic. With millions of Glock pistols in service everyday, if this were truly a epidemic I am certain we would be hearing more about it.

      Instead, a 15 year old Glock developes a crack in the frame and people freak out. I speak from experience when I say this: it’s possible that a fat, out-of-shape cop was constantly jamming the pistol between his 300 pound body and the center console for 15 years. Just sayin’…

      I mean, a Glock can be run over by a pickup truck, but it can’t survive living in a fat man’s holster? C’mon.

      Full disclosure – I own a Glock, a Springfield XD, and a S&W M&P. I like them all.

      • n0truscotsman

        Who decided to approve XDm’s? good god… 0__o

        • sliversimpson

          Agreed!

      • Spencer W

        I agree with your points.

        Never heard of that. What was the trend of failures with the XDm?

        And a disclosure for me-a Glock is next on my list (almost blasphemy to my father haha)

        • sliversimpson

          There were two specific failures that had become common.

          After frequently dry firing their pistols to practice sight alignment and trigger control, the roll pin that retains the firing pin (visible from the top of the slide) would fracture, and pieces of the roll pin would become trapped in the firing pin channel. This debri would prevent the firing pin from being able to travel far enough forward to reliably ignite cartridge primers. In any case where this occurred, the gun had to be fully disassembled in order to clear the debris from the firing channel… It’s kind of worrisome to imagine that happening to a cop in a gun fight.

          The second failure was that the magazine springs would fatigue very quickly by comparison to other manufacturers. After 6-8 months, XDm magazines that were loaded, but unused would induce failures do to the lack of spring force/tension.

          Obviously some XDm were the exception to the rule, but there were enough guns demonstrating failures that the department removed them from the approved list.

          Enjoy your new Glock. The is something about the Glock that inspires trust. I believe that part of it is the reputation, but part of it is the simple, tool-like construction, too. I trust mine as much as a firearm could be trusted.

          • Spencer W

            Thank you.

            I had never heard of this before. The mag spring is bad but that roll pin issue is just….wow.

          • sliversimpson

            Unfortunately, I can verify that the magazines have the stated issue from personal experience.

      • MrEllis

        It takes more than a fat cop to break a Glock. LE rounds are usually hotter than regular rounds and no gun should go 15 years without service. I ran thousands of rounds through my Gen 2 23 and to this day the gun is still going.

        • sliversimpson

          That’s kind of my point… There is no real problem here if one small agency out thousands is claiming that there is a problem, when the 15 year old guns have unknown service records.

        • BryanS

          Usually hotter?

          So what factory round are they using that is not rated for the pistol?

          • sliversimpson

            I think he is referring to the idea that plinking rounds are usually loaded for lower velocities. Self defense rounds are issued loaded to higher velocities to ensure expansion and deliver maximum energy on impact.

            Both are within SAMMI specification for safe cartridge velocities.

          • BryanS

            I thought it was alluding to that old stereotype of “police ammo” just like police cars come with “cop engine, cop shocks, cop brakes”.

            (In my experience, used police vehicles come with wiring issues and abused everything, and no back seat. But that is for another blog )

          • Ethan

            All guns have a lifespan of X thousand rounds before fatigue failure – 99.999% of people will never make it that high, but some do. Shooting +P or +P+ ammo frequently reduces X by some percentage – in my experience about 20-30% very subjectively.

            Its the nature of physical wear on metal. Its like a car – if your car is 10 years old or has 200,000 miles on it, things are going to break. If a pistol is 15yrs old and has more than say 8,000 rnds on it – chances are its time to replace a few small parts.

    • n0truscotsman

      Its entirely subjective, but I do agree with you. I hate the G23 with a burning passion (the gen 4 is better, although im not sure if there was a gen 3 rough texture in the G23 released or not). I couldn’t shoot it accurately either. So I just stuck with my G19 until I mostly transitioned over to the M&P

      • nadnerbus

        I don’t get this. The two guns are identical other than caliber. I can understand being a little more difficult to be accurate with the .40, but the rest of the complaints (he stated, not you) don’t add up to me.

        That said, I don’t understand why police would be issued a 23 or a 19. The 22 or 17 seem to me to make more sense for a duty carry. I guess size and weight affect police too though.

        • n0truscotsman

          Yeah me either. The 22 or the 17 would seem like the more logical choice for a retention holster. The only rationale I could think of is that compact is easier to wear when seated in a vehicle.

    • Zachary marrs

      Lots of the cops in my smallish town can usually be found at the range, shooting their sidearms, or carbines

      I imagine big city pd’s are quite different

      • Spencer W

        I’m glad to hear you’re in a safer town than I.

        • Zachary marrs

          You should see how they drive 😉

    • claymore

      HYPERBOLE much? you must never leave your house if you have never met a police officer that doesn’t shoot one hell of a lot more than that and even more with their personal firearms. Go back under your bridge.

      • Spencer W

        Does a SWAT team and 3 different departments count? Now I did not talk to them all personally but I was always looking for people I could shoot with or learn from and what I found is almost nobody really liked shooting and 90% were not good at it at all.

        • sliversimpson

          Which departments and SWAT unit, if you don’t mind sharing?

          • Spencer W

            South Lebanon PD and SWAT members(can‘t remember the unit), Newtonsville PD, Clearcreek township PD.

        • claymore

          More hyperbole.

          • Spencer W

            More projection…

          • claymore

            More being a failing mini-troll

  • tony

    Imagine what .357 sig would do to a glock.
    20K rounds before replacing the locking block is what I have heard when shooting .357 sig

  • Just say’n

    Is this why it seems like you see these as police trade-ins all the time at Aimsurplus, Classic Arms, J&G, etc?

    • Herr Wolf

      I never understood why anyone would want to save a few hundred bucks to buy a God-only-knows-how-its-been-treated weapon.

      • Bill

        Because they can be screaming good deals. On the average it’s been rained on, had coffee spilled on it, worn a hole in a cruiser seat cushion, had it’s finish rubbed raw in a holster, and was once in the same room as a cleaning kit. It was also shot maybe 50 times a year for 10 years. Clean it, respring it just to be cautious and give it a coat of Krylon, or Cerakote if you’re one of those highfalutin types who cares about looks, and you essentially have a pistol that is barely broken in.

  • AJ187

    Know a guy with 10k rounds through a glock. Seems politically expedient to ditch the 40. Enjoy the new fad, “public servants.”

  • Vitsaus

    Pretty much anytime I hear something horrendous happening with or to a Glock I assume it was in .40 S&W. There’s nothing wrong with the cartridge, but that is simply not the right platform for it.

    • Barry

      Totally agree. I got a g17 because it was designed for 9mm. I also have an M&P 40 that is as snappy as that g17 is. And if you really want to shoot 40 comfortably, get an HK–they will feel like 9mm with their polymer recoil buffer in the guide rod. Just stay clear of glock 40s.

      • Vitsaus

        You nailed it there. Only a few pistols were actually designed around .40 S&W, rather than being beefed up 9mm pistols. Most people I know who really dislike .40 have never shot any of those pistols. Its far from my favorite caliber, but I certainly don’t think its useless.

        • Hyok Kim

          .40 S&W is basically a gimmick designed to increase the sales of more guns and ammo.

      • Ben

        The HK USP was actually designed for .40 in the early 90’s.

        The Beretta 96 series is also generally noted as being the most pleasant .40 to shoot.

        • Sledgecrowbar

          Man, I feel glad that I bought a G17 and then a USP40 (actually a police trade-in) as my first two handguns to start my collection. I just figured I was buying the quintessential models, I had no idea about this. Also, all the police trade-in guns I’ve bought have always turned out to be light-use guns with mainly handling wear (holster, seat belt buckle, etc.). The wearing-out of police guns is a new one on me, I thought they rotate them out of use after X years or rounds as policy. Is it possible this says more about an underfunded department than the gun?

          • nadnerbus

            There’s something to be said for going with mainstream guns and calibers. It’s a pretty good way to be sure you are getting generally quality gear, even if you don’t do all the research legwork.

            Police and Military generally issue stuff that works.

          • Larry

            Having been involved in government procurement for many years, you are mistaken about quality gear the government purchases. Politics plays a big part in the process in the acquisition. Very few know the process, only repeating what they have been told..
            Is the glock good guns? the answer is yes and no. Yes there are a lot of clocks sold, other than the various government purchases, why did you purchase a glock? Well made?One fault that is seldom mention is the short trigger pull. Someone who reads this will say why is this a problem? Here is an example of a possible fault. recently read a study of multiple police departments using slow motion cameras to monitor holster draw in a stressful situation. 28% of the polices officers drew their glocks with their finger on the trigger, resulting with some accidental discharges. Had the pistol had a long trigger pull, there is a high probability their would not have been an accidental discharge. Would this happen to you? the probability is much higher.
            One last thought, before making any comment about any firearm, be sure you have personal experience with it and the problems that may be discussed. Finally, do not put someone down because they have a “X” brand of firearm, it is better to be still and have everyone wonder whether you are a jerk than opening your mouth and proving you are.
            .

          • nadnerbus

            OK.

            Pluses of buying weaponry that is the same as/similar to government issue:

            -Commonality of calibers. Generally, the cheapest and most readily available types of ammo are NATO spec and police issue ammo.

            -generally mature platforms. If you buy an AR, M1A, Beretta 92, Glock 19 etc, you are getting a weapon that has had most if not all bugs worked out on the government dime. Problems that can crop up have cropped up before, and are easier to diagnose due to a greater experience pool

            -availability of parts. When you get a mainstream gun, you are probably never going to be in a position to have to hunt around trying to find an extractor, or a proprietary magazine or some such. Glock parts are everywhere. AR parts are everywhere. A boutique gun may be wonderful, but if the company goes out of business (AUG from MSAR), you may be in a pickle somewhere down the road trying to service it.

            -price. Volume usually brings price down. There is a wider market for used guns in this category. Police trade ins can be a screaming deal. ARs are a more or less open source design, with dozens of companies competing in their production. There is a huge range of options available, almost always at a lower cost than a similar proprietary design.

            Are you getting the absolute best? Probably not. There are more effective calibers and bullets if you really want to get into it. You have to do your research and decide how much coin you want to part with to determine what luxury level of quality you want. But it is hard to go wrong with an established weapon with a service track record.

            I don’t get the anecdote about the Glock trigger. There are lots of polymer frame wonder nines out there that don’t have an external safety. Doesn’t mean the gun is not reliable and functions as designed. Anyway, that’s why the Glock has such an unholy heavy trigger pull.

            Finally, I never put anyone down for anything, so not sure where that retarded last paragraph came from.

          • Techniq-

            It is better to remain quiet & be thought a fool…than to speak up & remove all doubt.

      • raz-0

        Why. I’l bet money the hairline crack is near the take down doohickey. You will develop them with high round counts in the g17 too as well as the .40 guns even if you are loading 40 light. It’s not every pistol, and it won’t fail immediately, but they show up.

        The department in question might be referring to something else, but that is the most common “hairline crack’ type of failure I have seen.

      • Gregory

        I am a LEO and carry a Glock 22 in .40 caliber. I have been using my Glock since 2008 and have fired in excess of 6000 rounds through it. The same goes for my model 27 in .40’caliber. Both guns have never failed and show no signs of wear. I have full faith in both guns.

  • Ben

    My dad (retired now) still has the Gen2 G23 that he was issued in the (very) early 90s. He gave that gun the classic cop treatment. Rarely shot it, never changed the factory sights (!), rarely cleaned it. It still has the original sights on it, and the rear sight is a good 1/16″ shorter than it should be, because of holster wear. If you line the sights up normally it shoots into the dirt. That gun is by far the least accurate and least fun to shoot pistol that I have ever shot. But it never cracked!

    • claymore

      AH dude the rear sight would have to be worn down to a nub to get to the bottom of the notch before effecting sight picture. Calling BS on this one as no holster in use has any part that would wear the notch out of a rear sight.

      • Ben

        No no, its not the bottom of the notch that is the problem. The top of the sight is worn down. So if you align the top of the front sight level with the top of the rear sight, it shifts your point of impact downwards.

        As for the holster, it was carried in a pretty standard police holster on duty, and a Fobus OWB off duty. I don’t know if it was the holster, seat belt, or something else that routinely rubbed against that gun for almost two decades. But the wear on that crappy plastic rear sight is very evident.

        • claymore

          Right………………….

          • Ben

            I would take a picture of it if I wasn’t hundreds of miles from my parents’ house. Sitting it next to a brand new G17, the wear on the rear sight is incredibly obvious. I don’t know what makes you so confident in the indestructibility of early ’90s vintage plastic Glock sights.

          • claymore

            So did you notify your dept. armorer of the problem so he could send that sight to Glock so they could fix the problem and alert other LEOs ?

          • Ben

            Send the sight to Glock? I can’t tell if you are joking or serious. I’m pretty sure that shipping to Austria would cost more than the factory Glock sights.
            My dad retired in ’09. Whether or not he ever reported problems with his gun, I do not know.

          • claymore

            Well if one wants to solve a problem they must see the worn parts. I’m sure glock would have paid the postage to see the part so they could investigate.

  • Darhar M.

    Would be interesting to know what the polymer mix was back in 2000 vs. what Glock Mfg. is using now and if the polymer being used is from the same company.

  • God

    I have to wonder, if they had replaced the recoil springs at the correct round count (whatever that is) if these problems would have occured. I’ve got a Glock 17, 19 and 21 and they seem to be pretty nearly indestructible. Oh, I’ve got my Glock 21 set up to shoot 45 Super. Be sure to look up 45 Super before you comment on high pressure loads…

  • Grindstone50k

    “Wear and tear” for military and police is always going to be on the extreme end. They don’t take care because A) they don’t own it and B) are not financially responsible for it.

  • Nicks87

    After 15 years of service, of course they need to be replaced. The only service pistols I’ve seen that will last that long is the mighty Beretta 92 series. Sig, HK, S&W, etc. all the modern automatics will suffer the same issues eventually. My dept has Sig P229s that didn’t even make it to 5000 rounds without parts breaking. It’s not a Glock issue, it’s a longevity issue and a maintenance issue. A trained armorer would’ve noticed these cracks and replaced the parts before the weapons even had so much as a hiccup.

    • HSR47

      This.

      Any duty-use gun should be inspected on a regular schedule: At fixed intervals throughout the year, once the firearm has had a certain number of rounds through it, or both.

      Furthermore, there are certain parts that should be replaced based on the number of rounds fired — E.G. the recoil spring assembly. If this isn’t replaced when it needs to be, the result is more wear and tear on other critical parts (the locking block, locking block pins, barrel, slide, and frame).

      Frankly, as a Glock armorer, it sounds to me like they didn’t perform regular inspections or PM.

  • Lance

    Mean that recently moved Beretta will make 96s for them? they’d be buying local. Or will they goto 9mm with G-17 or M-92FS? Who knows, keep us updated Steve.

  • Spencerhut

    When you buy a .40S&W firearm make sure it started life designed to
    fire .40S&W. The small frame 9/40 Glocks were designed to be 9mm
    from the start and then scaled up for the .40S&W. Guns like the
    S&W M&P 9/40 were designed to be .40S&W and .357 Sig from
    the beginning and then scaled down to 9mm. Big difference. Here is an
    example of another department switching out cracked and broken Glock
    23’s in .40S&W for 9mm’s. This goes along with the FBI’s recent
    recommendation for 9mm over .40S&W. I have a feeling there is about
    to be a large movement away from .40S&W and back to 9mm and .45ACP.

  • Sianmink

    1: 15 year old service guns. They’re due.
    2: I don’t believe the cracks story. Maybe after you’ve gone over them with an MRAP a few times, because you want new guns but don’t want to pay for them.

  • Bill

    I’d REALLY like to have these guns, which are a tiny fraction of a percent of the .40 GLOCKs out there, examined by an independent armorer. If not now, very recently the .40 GLOCK was one of the most common guns in all levels of police service. I’m wondering if tight budgets didn’t result in some iffy, remanufactured ammo that wasn’t within spec getting into the training stream. A number of the busted GLOCKs Ive seen have also been modified or fitted with non-standard parts, usually by someone at their kitchen table who should restrict it to eating, not amateur armoring.

    LE guns are replaced because they are no longer new, not because they are worn out. Right or wrong, agencies may do a hundred rounds a year in qualifications, do the math over a thirty year career. Obviously specialized units and motivated cops are going to shoot more, but properly maintained guns long outlast the shooter.

  • Cal S.

    Gotta wonder how long it’s been since a lot of their stuff was serviced.

    I still love my Ruger SR40 and 40c. Even the ‘C’ is very pleasant to shoot.

  • Raoul O’Shaugnessy

    The posessive apostrophe should go after ‘department’, not after guns.

  • MrEllis

    The reality is to some cops a gun is one tool among many and to some of the smaller departments you buy the gun, teach people how to shoot it and qualify when liability/standards require you to. The vast majority of law enforcement will never discharge their weapon and administrators see ammo and training as expensive (they are) and usually are in a budget crunch. You’d be hard pressed to find a mid/small sized agency that was flush with cash. Sure a few rich ‘burbs but your average department isn’t Uncle Scrooge’n in the gold. Just the reasoning behind it, not support of it.

  • Lt Donn

    This is especially troubling insofar as this “issue” with the 40 cals has been known for years and years…I mean how this supposedly “modern” agency failed to have comprehensive maintenance procedures including regular checks of these frames, is in itself more troubling to me.

  • I’ve heard about this a couple times over the last week. It still isn’t clear to me where the cracks are. Is it the polymer frame, the locking block, or the slide lock/disassembly catch?

  • Ted Unlis

    Why is there no specific description of the location on the G23 where these hairline cracks were found? Why are there no photos documenting the hairline cracks?

  • Louie

    Well, I guess that is a statement that says maybe under severe heavy use and 15 plus years it may be time to maintain whatever firearm you have. There is nothing wrong with a Glock platform. Glock has the title of most dependable hand gun period. If you want to prove what hard use is go and buy a used squad car at a auction and see what abuse is. Every time the Glock name is mentioned, all the guys with their overpriced cumbersome guns like to say see we told you so. they thrive on it so they can tell their wives see honey that is why I paid 10 times more for my gun because Glock don’t hold up. I have a Glock 27 and have put thousands of 40 Cal rounds through it and not so much as tweak
    incident.

  • nova3930

    Anything designed and built by a man can and will break eventually…

  • Aaron E

    Our Department used our first Glock 22’s (.40 S&W) for over 10 years without any major problems – standard armorer maintenance. Our detectives used the Glock 23 during that same time without any issues either. The article doesn’t say how many pistols showed cracks. At 15 years old I’m thinking the Department was looking for a way to get all new guns anyway.

  • uisconfruzed

    I’ve had a G23 & G27 for years.
    It would have been nice IF a photo of said crack was included in the article!

  • James

    There any particular reason all my comments are gone? Took a while to hack all that out on my phone.

    • MR

      The pissing matches needed more room

  • Tim Pearce

    “You don’t allow an entire police departments guns to completely wear out until they literally start falling apart before you send them off for servicing.” When you’re the government, you do. [read as anti-meth commercial]

    • MR

      “Do you want cracks in your service pistols’ frames? Because that’s how you get cracks in your service pistols’ frames.” (Read as an Archer meme)

  • Nimrod

    One of things I started doing it buying the .40 cal version of various pistols and then buying a 9mm conversion barrel for it. I carry it in .40 but practice with it with 9mm. Often you can use the same mags or just pick up a couple 9mm mags for range use. So far I do that with a Glock 22 and a XD40sc. The XD has a mag extension so I use full size XD9 mags and I bought a long, threaded barrel for it so it shoots like full sized gun and can use a suppressor. Makes it pretty versatile.

  • bigdog011

    I agree that the article failed to enlighten the reader as to very important fact, “where are the cracks”? Kind of like getting a call of a gunfight in progress, location unknown!

  • Tick licker

    I’ve got a police service Glock that was issued in the 80’s. Today it shoots great! I’m a 34 yr. Law enforcement officer. I will stick with the Glock!

  • Robert Michael Jr Cottell

    Cheap police trade ins out of Kentucky coming soon to a gun shop near you.

  • R H

    I can’t be the only one who smells something VERY fishy about this!?! It’s one thing to claim that the some Glock 23’s failed after 15 years of use, but it’s quite another thing to claim that 12 out of 27 of the said pistols lasted the 15 years just to break in the SAME WAY at the SAME training exercise…If you’ll buy that I’m sure I can find some BS around the house to sell you, too.

  • buzzman1

    Makes me wonder if the old steel framed pistols are better. Most polymers degrade in sunlight and with the added stress well you see the problem. I cant help but wonder how brittle older Glocks of other calibers are?.

    • Hyok Kim

      I believe in steel frame for PSD and police issue, but for mass issues for the conscripts in war time, polymer frame would be better for the simple reason of economy. Durability is not the first priority in war time for the masses.

      • buzzman1

        I understand your point of view but I have to disagree anyway of course because of the characteristics of Polymer and soldiers. First the 101st took a lot of PMAGs with them to Afghanistan. The soldiers loved them but a lot of the cracked or broke when the weather got really cold and they bumped then against something hard. Could have been a bad lot but who knows. Next soldiers can F up a wet dream and they abuse the equipment horribly and they would break them not to mention they’d have unintended discharges consistently. Finally the Army is seriously considering going to .40 cal so it wouldnt be long before the cracking started on the armies pistol too.

        • Hyok Kim

          You understand Afghanistan is not a total war? More like ‘Banana wars’ of 1920s and 30s.

          • buzzman1

            The US hasnt conducted a “Total” war since WW2. Whether they call it a police action security mission or whatever soldiers still die.

          • Hyok Kim

            That soldiers die was not my point. My point was the optimal design for weapons for the total war and ‘Banana wars’ is very different.

            In ‘Banana wars’, a nation can take their sweet time to refine design and put emphasis on durability (as opposed to short term robustness) of the weapon system.

            In total wars, a nation doesn’t have the time to waste for durability feature, since weapon system is going to become obsolete very fast and be destroyed fast.

          • buzzman1

            I agree with that. During WW2 1911’s were built like crap and had a 5000 rd life expectancy. M-1s had to fire subloaded .30-06 ammo, etc etc etc. for just about every weapons system out there.

  • paulm53

    I keep hearing about this, but not 1 picture showing the problem?