Chinese Small Arms from the 7th Beijing Police Equipment Expo

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I recently did a TFB write-up on the inner working of the Chinese QBZ-95 bullpup. That piece plus my RS Regulate AK optic mounts and the new QBZ-95 optic articles got translated into Chinese and posted in some Mainland website as soon as they were up on TFB. That site didn’t bother to even put a link-back to the original TFB articles, but at least they acknowledged me as the author.

While checking them out, I have found their coverage of the 7th Beijing Police Equipment Expo from May 2014. So, I’m sure they won’t mind that I’m using their pictures for this TFB write-up. The 8th Beijing Police Equipment Expo will be held at the 3rd week of May 2015. Looking forward to see some newer Chinese small arms from that.

 

QBZ03_3

The QBZ-03 with a quad-rail handguard. While the AR-15 markets in the USA are moving to the modular handguards with the Keymod and M-LOK systems, but in China, the quad-rail is still new to them. I was expecting the QBZ-03 quad-rail handguard would be just a simple drop-in 2-piece replacement, but this close-up shows it has a short piggyback section that screws onto the upper receiver. They should have done a full flat-top with a longer piggyback 1913 rail like that of the Vltor CAVS handguard.

 

QBZ03_2

This seems to be the same 5.56x45mm QBZ-03 that Norinco has been using for display for the last couple of years. This gun still has the prototype rear sight in the Type 87 style. The QBZ-03 design utilizes an AR-15 style two-halves forged aluminum receivers layout. The bolt carrier group hangs inside of the upper receiver. The back of the lower receiver houses a recoil buffer so that the QBZ-03’s BCG won’t smash onto the rear trunnion like a Kalashnikov.

 

QBZ03_4

Hmmm…..this look familiar. The Senior Colonel (a brigadier equivalent) is probably a POG.

 

208CS-SVD-01

An updated SVD/NDM-86 design as the CS/LR19 semi-automatic sniper rifle. From just these images, I saw there are actually quite a few major changes from the standard Dragunov design. The most obvious is the Picatinny 1913 rails and especially with the longer top rail that have replaced the Russian-style receiver side rail.

 

208CS-SVD-02

The barrel is considerably heavier and slightly longer than the barrel on the SVD. Behind the slots on flash hider, there is a thread section for mounting a suppressor. The lengthy top rail allows a co-witness mounting of a night-vision scope in front of the day optic.

 

208CS-SVD-03

The new handguard is now free-floated instead of the semi-free-float one found on the original SVD. That’s why the bipod can now be mounted farther forward on the handguard for better stability. Although, the receiver mounting slots for the standard clip-on SVD bipod are still there. The CS sniper has a shortened top dust cover. There’s a single machined metal piece that makes up the free-float handguard mounting base, part of the top 1913 rail and acts as a fixed dust cover above the ejection port.

 

208CS-SVD-04

The old-school wooden SVD stock has been replaced by a black polymer stock with adjustable cheek piece, heavy rubber buttpad, a ticker grip and a build-in extendable monopod.

 

sino_MPX_2sino_MPX_1

Sino MPX? The subgun is probably based on the gas-operated 9mm SMG design they have been working on for the past few years. The exterior on the other hand, is a blatant copy of the new Sig MPX, down to the AR-15 style controls and the slotted modular handguard. The Sino MPX knock-off uses the common MP5 magazine.

 

10mm_revolvers

A bunch of boring wheel guns? Although the sight in the middle indicated all of these revolvers are chambered in 10mm caliber.

 

10mm_revolvers2

The close-up of the highly ornate engraved model. Unknown if the Chinese 10mm round is based on an existing revolver cartridge or something new.

 

Chinese_Judge

The Sino Judge! This looks like they have copied the idea of the Taurus Judge. The cylinder seems to be big enough for multiple .410-size shotshells.

 

Hawk_Group_tactical_shotgun

A new tactical semi-automatic shotgun from the Hawk Group. This one comes with a tube extension, fiber optic sights and a shotgun muzzle brake with sharp serrations (I call that the rifle bag cutter). This is probably looking too “evil” according to ATF for importation.

 

Hawk_Group_tactical_shotgun3

A close-up of its continuous top 1913 rail with an old EOTech N-battery model mounted in front of the 2-dot fiber optic rear sight.

 

Hawk_Group_meopta_001

A bolt-action sniper rifle chambered for the 7.62x51mm NATO. This is different from the CS bolt-action 7.62mm and 5.8mm sniper rifles currently used by the Chinese military and police. Yes, the 7.62x51mm NATO is the new standard medium range precision caliber for the Chinese police and military.

 

Hawk_Group_meopta_002

A closer look of the continuous top 1913 rail and the bolt action. That scope on the gun looks familiar….

 

Hawk_Group_meopta_003

It’s a Meopta MeoTac ZD 6-24×56 RD imported from the Czech Republic.

 

Hawk_Group_laser_gun

Also from the Hawk Group is a laser dazzler gun. I wonder if it’s eye safe? Just kidding, it’s probably not. Since it’s not technically a gun, maybe it could be imported but I don’t think our ATF would like that either. This would be great for entertaining your neighbor’s cats for hours on end.

But seriously, and for those not from the USA, lasers devices are regulated by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) in the US for some kooky reason. The FDA is known to overreact on anything that has a slightly higher output than a PowerPoint Presentation laser pointer.

Hawk_Group_laser_gun2

 

I am especially interested in the grenade launchers. You can read my piece on the Chinese QLZ87, which is now all over the raging civil wars in Syria and Iraq.

LG03_1

The LG3 automatic grenade launcher (AGL) seems to based on the existing 35mm QLZ04 AGL internally but chambers the 40x53mm NATO high-pressure grenade. The LG3 is probably made for export only.

 

LG03_2

Besides the caliber difference, the LG3 has a center mounted sight with Picatinny 1913 rail for mounting optics and it has a dual side firing grips control instead of the rear mounted dual spade grips on the QLZ-04 AGL.

 

LG03_3

The QBZ-95 bullpup is not the only Chinese small arm that has some Czech design influence, The LG3’s side trigger is also a Czech influenced feature that came from the tradition of using the Czech ZB26 and ZB37 machine guns in Chinese military service. In fact, many of the ZB26 in the Chinese service were converted to 7.62×39 and remained in the inventory until 1980. The right side grip actually function similarly as the one found on the Type 85 .50 cal heavy machine gun, pulling on it would charge the weapon.

 

9656_LG05_1

The LG5 “sniper” automatic grenade launcher. The 35mm version of this is in limited service with the Chinese Marine Corps and it has been tested recently on Somali pirates in the Gulf of Aden. The LG5 could be a good candidate for replacing the similarly sized but aging QLZ-87 man-portable AGL. The LG5’s unique design feature is that the whole tubular receiver acts as a big recoil buffer with its barrel recoils into it after firing. The very long recoil system allows the LG5 to firing very high velocity grenades.

The rumored Chinese 35mm special high velocity grenade is quoted to have a 1355 fps (413 m/s) muzzle velocity, which is nearly doubles of that of the 40x53SR NATO’s. The higher MV increased the maximum effective direct-fire range to 1050m, a 250m increase over the standard velocity 35x32SR Chinese grenade. The indirect-fire range would be at least double but it requires a tripod mount with T&E adjustment.

 

9656_LG05_2

The front view of the LG5’s huge muzzle brake unit. There’s a fuse programmer contains in it for setting the airburst timing for the new generation of programmable airburst 35mm and 40mm advanced grenades. The fuse timing data comes from the fire control unit, which is equipped with a laser rangefinder and ballistic computer, on the right side of the receiver. I bet the Chinese LG5 is way cheaper than the American XM29 and it doesn’t blow up as often either.

If any TFB reader is attending the upcoming 8th Beijing Police Equipment Expo, please feel free to email me any images you took from it. As the resident TFB optic editor, I’m especially interested in pictures of Chinese military optics.



Writer and gear editor with articles published in major gun publications. A five year combat veteran of the US Marine Corps, Tim is also part of Point & Shoot Media Works, a producer of photography, video and web media for the firearms and shooting sport industry. Tim’s direct contact: Tyan.TFB -at- gmail.com


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  • Riot

    That grenade launcher is terrifying

  • Nicholas Mew

    Very impressive. Now it seems very apparent that we Americans are being ‘over-matched’ by our rivals.

    • Despite being the largest market in the world for firearms, American small arms are sadly far behind most of the world when it comes to fielding new designs. Compared to Russia, Germany/Austria, Belgium, Switzerland, Singapore and now China, our designs are pretty dated.

      • Joshua

        Yet they somehow get selected by most countries.

        Please tell me all these superior small arms that are shaming what we have?

        I’ll be waiting.

        • iksnilol

          -Czech, Slovak or German pistols are way better than American ones (that is without mentioning Glocks which you are so big fans of).
          -British and Finnish sniper rifles are better (Heck, the Finns invented .338 Lapua).

          -German and Russian MGs are way better (MG3, MG4, PKM, PKP, KORD, etc.)

          -SMGs/PDWs the Belgians and Germans have got you beat. And now Sig is making the MPX.

          -Assault rifles are pretty much meh. They are all pretty much equal.

          So, in regards to small arms, they have got you beat. I haven’t really seen many Americans weapons adopted internationally.

          • Bal256

            Sure the Europeans make good guns. For some reason the guys who actually kick down doors for a living don’t carry them though.

          • iksnilol

            Ah, I love that picture because it shows how clueless you are. About half of those pictured there are HK416s, AKA the European improved version of the AR (getting rid of the “DI” system which is the heart and soul of the AR). So that picture sorta proves my point. It’s like saying product A is better while showing people enjoying product B.

            Also, just because we don’t invade countries for no good reason doesn’t mean we don’t use our guns. But of course you are one of those people who think that the USA is the best thing to happen to the world since sliced bread while completely ignoring all your war crimes (Gitmo, drone strikes, couple of unprovoked invasions, etc.) and messed up social situation (just compare college tuition in 1970s to today, healthcare, poverty rate, etc.).

            So… close (not really) but no cigar.

          • Joshua

            I would say “improved”. The only real improvement it offers over a current day M4A1 is the barrel, which is honestly better.

          • iksnilol

            Well, people that are better paid than me disagree with you.

          • Joshua

            And plenty of people paid better than you agree with me… So I guess we are at an impasse.

          • iksnilol

            Heck, we can just agree to disagree. That’s a decent way of keeping it civil, don’t you think?

          • Rock or Something

            “But of course you are one of those people who think that the USA is the best thing to happen to the world since sliced bread while completely ignoring all your war crimes”

            Hmm…”civility” seems like a one way street here.

          • iksnilol

            Not really, denying American war crimes is like saying the Holocaust never happened. In short; it is stupid and incomprehendable.

          • Bal256

            It’s easy to make the mistake if you don’t know the difference. All the commonwealth nations at least use the Canadian version of the M4 (that’s Australia and the UK), besides the fact that most of them were taken before the nations had adopted the HK416. Also if Europeans designed superior guns in the first place, why a modified American design and not a G36?

            Also I don’t believe the USA is the best thing since sliced bread. Americans invented sliced bread. Therefore sliced bread is the best thing since the USA.

            So… close (not really) but no cigar.

          • iksnilol

            They used an American design because the HK416 was the predecessor to the MK18. Then they just sold it to the rest of the world.

            G36? A lot of countries use the G36. Both regular soldiers and special forces.

            You really think the USA is the best thing to happen to the world?

          • Joshua

            We have LSAT(which is going to revolutionize weapons).

            Yep we suck at weapon designing. Did you know once the LSAT LMG finished up, they will be working on a GPMG as well.

            hey its ok, we know the world let’s us R&D things then hops on the bandwagon.

            Once we finish LSAT everyone will be boarding the LSAT train…toot…toot.

            There’s also the fact that most door kickers choose American weapons to outfit their soldiers(H&K being the one exception).

          • iksnilol

            Yeah, LSAT is going to revolutionize things. Just like the G11 was supposed to do? Also, we have seen how things are working out for polymer lately.

            Better bet is going for aluminum cases.

          • Joshua

            Very big difference between a caseless ammunition and cased telescopes.

            Fact is AAI is making this work, and it will be here soon.

          • Cynic

            LSAT LMG is pretty much done the rifle will take a while because they want a new calibre (6.5) and push through feeding will be a challenge.

            The ammo is stable 33% lighter than standard linked 5.56 and in a gun 30% lighter than a 249 so how is LSAT a failure.

          • iksnilol

            I didn’t say LSAT was a failure, just that you don’t have it yet (as in it isn’t standard issue). If something is still in prototype and testing phases then you can’t really say you have it yet.

            And there has been a lot of stuff that was supposed to revolutionize firearms but didn’t. Also a lot of stuff that was supposed to revolutionize firearms but came into standard use way later. Just look at assault rifles, we had their forerunners (Fedorov, Winchester M1907, Ribeyrolle 1918, 1921 MAF) yet we didn’t make the concept standard issue until well after WW2.

            And either way we aren’t getting rid of the metal case, it is too well entrenched.

          • Cynic

            The metal case will go in the next 20 years, the only reason we keep it now is it allows us to be quite lazy in weapons design.

            The brass case acts as a heatsink which allows us to push the weapon quite hard and to quite high temps inside the chamber.

            Plastic cases work, caseless.isnt quite.there yet it has heat issues that need to be worked out. The LSAT system works ready well the rifle that will come in LSAT is being developed now. The LMG has been issued in a relatively small number to those units who evaluate new weapons systems for use. The feedback has been really really positive.

            Give it 10-15 years and the brass case will be allot rarer on the battlefield.

        • We’re getting schooled in nearly all categories by foreign designs.

          Handguns:
          Striker Fired: Glock and Walther PPQ
          DA/SA: Sphinx, CZP09, Grand Power
          SA0: FN 5-7

          We’re still #1 with revolvers though.

          Sub Machine Guns:
          Micro: B&T MP9, PP 2000
          Medium: Chang Feng, STK CPW, HK MP7, CZ Scorpion,
          Large: FM P90, PP-19 Bizon

          Shotguns:
          Saiga 12, Vepr 12

          Hunting Rifles:
          Tikka/ Sako

          Assault Rifles:
          AR Varient: HK 416,
          Bullpup: AUG, Tavor, FN 2000, Steyr ACR, SAR 21

          Battle Rifles:
          SCAR 17

          LMGs:
          Ultimax 100

          Other than Sniper Rifles, Ammunition, and Accessories, our domestic designs as of late are pretty lacking.

          • Joshua

            Sure.

            I will give you the handguns category.

            SMG category it doesn’t matter. Why use a 9mm sub gun when you can use a Mk18 and not be 100% confined to extreme CQB. Just a difference in how we operate.

            Shotguns are again a difference, we really only use them for breaching during my time in SoF.

            Hunting rifle: M2010

            AR’s are subjective. The HK416 is good but like I said only part that is actually truly better is the barrel. It is a overgassed, oversprung rifle using super metals, and numerous mods that are not needed on the M4 to achieve similar parts life to the modern M4A1 and offering a slight improvement in rounds between stoppages.

            Bullpups…No one serious uses them, and the SoF units of the countries that do issue bullpups choose standard configured firearms over them.

            Battle rifles: We have the KAC M110K1 in use with MARSOC and working its way to others, and the CSASS competition will 99% end up with the K1 being standard issue. It blows away the SCAR.

            LMG: we have the KAC Stoner 63, sadly it really has not been adopted as we are pretty set with the M249.

            Now I know you will come back with a rebuttal and what not, but I won’t argue this. You can and honestly that’s fine, but I’m not going to get into a 100 comment battle on this site over this.

          • My critique is not really focussed on weapons fielded by the military, but just the state of US firearms manufacturing in general. I guess the issue for me could be summed up by a trip to SHOT show – virtually all of the new guns I would want to buy are not made in the US. And that saddens me.

          • LCON

            Gentlemen WHAT IN the hollowed name of John Moses Browning… May his powder be dry his shots be true and his spent casings be revered as holy relics… are you doing? For goodness sake. The History of western and eastern firearms is based up the interchange of Ideas and technologies… the Ultimax was designed with the Aid of an American L. James Sullivan who also aided in designing the AR15, and the AR18 who’s features and gas system are at the heart of all most of the modern assault and semiautomatic sporting rifles made post 1970, including G36, and almost all modern semiautomatic pistols operate on the Browning short recoil system And That the HK416 was had impute from Larry Vickers in its final design. Now let us stop the pissing contest and nation bashing and get back to the topic at hand.

          • Giolli Joker

            Yep, a great, useless, pissing contest without considering that there’s ultimately only one thing that drives development: MONEY!
            The USA is the country with the highest expenditure in defense in the world; granted, only a small percentage goes into small arms projects, but still the numbers are higher than in any other country.
            That being said, the American money went more than once into designs offered by other countries, surely improving the western industry of small arms.
            Regarding the civilian market, companies tend to offer what the market wants and apparently the American market (again the biggest in the world) seems to be geared toward AR-15’s and 1911’s+striker-fired-polymer-pistols, innovative projects aren’t so common and have always hard time to catch-on, mainly because the biggest names prefer to play safe.

          • LCON

            The question of the future is not Who is ahead but what are the innovations and how can they be adapted and implemented as efficiently and broadly as possible.

            Lsat is one potential The Us and Canada are working on that the end product however may not be CT ammo or Caseless ammo but could be improved polymer ammo or lighter small arms.

            Computers are another, Tracing point systems and Computational weapons sights could render a new way of shooting much like how rifling changed combat from the musket model of softening volley fire followed by bayonet charges to precision kills at distance.

          • Cynic

            Suppressors the US dominate in terms of making them strong and able to last heavy use and round counts.

            Because if how hard they are to get (comparitavely with the tax and the wait etc) the market expects high quality and for them to last many thousands of rounds.

            In parts of Europe I can walk into the shop and buy a can that day and leave. My last rim fire can (bought for an air rifle but rated for .22) I paid cash for about 65$ and walked away that day with it in my pocket.

            US night vision dominates, US mounts dominate same with flash suppressors and ammunition design.

            If I was equipping a team and I knew I had different heights weights, handedness and eye dominance to cater too I would issue all American weapons and accessories because thanks to the civilian market I can tailor to that person.

            Pistol – probably would offer the M&P for the striker fired option
            Sig Mrk25 (Swiss but developed for the US Navy) the
            FNP/X or a A high quality 1911
            So that’s 2.5 for the yanks

            Sidearm accessories surefire lights, holsters from either, Safari land, bladetech or raven depending on preference and role with an Osprey Can.

            SMG – wouldn’t bother i’d set up a short barrelled rifle similar to the Mrk18 loaded with the right ammo. With a magpul sling, Gemtec can and the troy pdw stock or possibly the KAC pdw

            ASSAULT RIFLE

            Depending on operators preference either an M series weapon of between 10″ and 16″ barrel with their prefered stock flash hider and grip or the LR300 Piston operated weapon with folding stock or possibly the PWS system.

            Battle Rifle

            SR25 no question with potentially the FAL as an option depending on if it’s being used as a long range DMR type weapon or something designed for rapid fire punch and the preference of the operator.

            Standard Sniping tool

            Probably something based off an R700 long action in 300rum or Wby Mag, with a tactical chassis similar to the magpul one using AI magazines with a scope mounted in a Larue mount depending on the user’s prefered scope.

            Heavier Calibre Snipers tool

            Probably the .50 or maybe something in the .338 Lapua something by either Barrett kn the semi auto or the AI bolt depending on users preference.

            SAW – probably a stoner 63 if I could get it put back into production.

            LMG That new US made versio of the m60 sounds good as it fixes allot of the older issues.

            Vehicle mounted LMG/platoon level hmg would have to be that General Dymamics in the 338 cartridge just because of the weight loss compared to the fifty.

            Vehicle mounted Heavy would be the M2 because it just works or potentially the dual XM Minigun mount and have the Rod switchable between low and high

            Some of my IFV’S in the support role using the 20mm bushmaster chain gun.

            Anti Armour at the squad level i’d go SAAB amd give them the Gustav.

            The majority of the weapons i’d suggest and use are American so it’s just as much experience and preference as anything else there isn’t really a ‘best 9n class’ that really dominates at the moment.

          • As I mentioned before, we’re very strong on Sniper Rifles, Accessories, and Ammunition. However as stated before, when it comes to Pistols, SMG’s, Shotguns, Assault Rifles designed since the 1960’s, Battle Rifles, and LMG’s, I stand behind my previous comments.

            It’s especially glaring (and frustrating) with handguns, given that we are far and away the worlds largest market for handguns.

            Have you had a chance to fire the pistols on your list? The M&P has an atrocious, downward cantilevering trigger safety. Compared to the PPQ or VP9 it’s no contest in terms of 9mm without modifying it (obviously in .40 those guns are not as good an option due to magazine capacity.) Meanwhile the Sphinx crushes the Sig in terms of Swiss quality.

          • Cynic

            Being able to find a sphinx to purchase is the hard part. I actually like the M&P to shoot.

      • ostiariusalpha

        They have an LSAT? Yeah, I didn’t think so.

        • Giolli Joker

          No, they wait for US to complete the expensive R&D part… then, let’s see. ..

        • iksnilol

          Do you guys have an LSAT? As far as I know it is still prototypes and testing versions.

          • Joshua

            The LSAT LMG is very far in development. It was run hard at Maneuver Battle Lab and is supposedly 5-7 years out from being ready.

          • iksnilol

            Then you are 5-7 years from actually having it. For now it is only prototypes and the like.

          • Joshua

            Hey it’s ok. Everyone can use our R&D to make them LSAT weapons.

            Fact is were ahead in the small arms game.

          • iksnilol

            in some aspects in front, in many other aspects way behind. How long did it take you to jump on the DMR bandwagon? Or the light-light MG concept (RPK or M27 and the like)?

          • Rock or Something

            Those were more of doctrinal issues than a lack of technology or expertise issues.

          • iksnilol

            Still, doctrine or technology you were behind.

          • Rock or Something

            Again, different wars call for different tactics. The antiquated concept of hauling a M14 rifle with 7.62 NATO rounds through the jungles of Vietnam didn’t seem so antiquated when facing Taliban insurgents 700 to 800 yards away in the mountains of Afghanistan. As I have pointed out before, the military has a “one size fits all” mentality, which unfortunately causes many issues with getting the most out of our firearms. But, in the concept of modern combined arms, small arms fire is only a minor part of determining the outcome of most engagements.

          • Cynic

            You can’t call a doctrinal difference being behind because of differences in technology due to how and what he doctrine does differently.

            If that was the case EVERYBODY is behind the Germans circa 1936 because as an issued machine gun it has things that are STILL not being issued that anyone with real MG experience says should be, parts of the aiming systems, how the bipod and tripod are designed, how the sight is setup to protect the gunner. The switchable feed so it can be made to fit any situation.

            All setup and funded and designed to make the perfect battlefield machine gun.

            Things that guys with experience in the military are screaming out to be standard issue. Look at ARFCOM’S discussion thread on ‘the art of machine gunnery’ and look at what the vets leading the discussion are saying we need to issue then look at the Germans issue mg’s. Things missed because of the doctrine differences.

            Look at the German casualty caused vs taken rates, look at how they structured their forces and how they trained their crews. Why the hell aren’t we taking notes from that?

          • iksnilol

            Being behind in doctrine is no different from being behind in technology. If you are behind in one of the two you are still behind.

          • Cynic

            You can’t call it being behind though, different forces fight and train differently for logical reasons that take into account mindset, training and culture.

            For example the German focus on the machine gun as the centre of the section with the riflemen supporting the gun requires certain things from the weapons issued so they developed their desired equipment and put together a training system where the Machinegunner was an Elite position aspired to and respected.

            The British system where the machine gun supports the advance of a section but moves with the squad requires a different gun…. neither are behind the other though they may crossover in technology.

            The Russian idea of infantry being there to support armor means that they will develop their forces in certain ways focusing more on the SQM role than the squad embedded LMG because the armour brings the firepower and the SQM is used to take out anti armour threats.

            All can use the same guns but with differences and tweaks to make them fit their role.

            No doctrine is right or wrong it depends on situation and training. So you can’t pick one doctrine and go everyone who doesn’t use X is behind and inferior.

            The ‘best’ doctrine doesn’t always work I.E WWII The meat grinder and the heavy industry beat a force that in terms of doctrine was superior.

            As for things like the federal, they were great on paper but had flaws making them unsuitable for general issue plus the wars of that era weren’t ones where an assault rifle (medium calibre fully automatic, mag fed) would really have made as large a difference as people thing. Maybe for the Sturmtruppe an assault rifle would have been perfect but an SMG or q shotgun filled that role effectively enough that the heavier and more complex designs weren’t really enough of an advantage. In a packed trench a shotgun or a bullet hose like the MP21 have benefits like being able to leave the offhand free to use a melee weapon in the case of the smg and the shotgun has the spread

          • Joshua

            Doctrinal vs technology. The civilian side has had DMR’s and all manner of calibers for a long time.

            It’s also the past, LSAT is the future which is American.

          • iksnilol

            Like I said in the other comment; It doesn’t matter if it is a doctrine or technology problem, you were behind. Like 40 years behind.

            Also, you are awfully hopeful regarding the LSAT. I doubt it is going to have such a big splash as you think it will. Just look at the MP5 and 9×19, it is per todays standard horribly outdated, yet it still so widespread and so much used that it will never go away.

          • Joshua

            Matters not if everyone else adopts it. Though when we do, I bet most will eventually.

            Fact is LSAT is the cutting edge in small arms design at the moment, and we’re the ones doing it.

            Everyone else is sitting back waiting for us to finish.

          • guest

            How is it the cutting edge? Please explain.

          • Cynic

            Sovie – sorry russian doctrine is still massively behind then look at russian tank design and look at how your troops are trained hell you are still using FOOTWRAPS and look at what your forces are equipped with before you throw out the ‘behind’ slurs.

            I’m not talking the special toy soldier units or the SF units that are shown in the parades and on TV but the regular forces.

          • iksnilol

            I am not Russian, just saying that in terms of doctrine they are way ahead of you since you are just recently adopting concepts they have had since the end of WW2.

            Also, regarding footwraps: If it’s stupid but it works then it isn’t stupid.

          • Cynic

            The Russians are in NO WAY superior as a fighting force, the borrowing from them actually proves that to some extent.

            The British forces are flexible enough to alter the MTOAE and are willing to change doctrine to reflect the battlefield they are encountering. (Issuing a 7.62 DMR at the squad level in afganistan for example, potential issue of the Gustav in Iraq for annother)

            the fact we are currently using tools that are firmly entrenched in.the soviet doctrine doesn’t argue soviet doctrine is superior.

            All it shows is the British forces are cable of altering doctrine to reflect the reality of the battlefield they are engaging with.

            The Soviets and now the Russians haven’t changed anything since world war two, they haven’t taken on board lessons from any of the proxy wars they fought in Korea and Vietnam or any of their conflicts in afganistan or Africa.

            If you took a soviet Sgt or platoon leader from the mid 60’s and dropped him into the Ukraine now leading a unit he would be fine, the weapons may have changed slightly (in terms of calibre and stock) but the doctrine and tactics are the same and he would be able to lead that unit with the same tactics he used in afganistan.

            Take a British officer or Sargent from the 60’s and drop them into now, our doctrine has changed, of styles of weapons used have changed and our squad setup has changed to the point where he could lead only after a course in our current doctrine and capabilities.

            As for footways, they work but a good issued sock and preventative care system is so.much better it makes an actual prove able improvement.

            The Russian army consists ol of badly equipped, underpaid conscripts, given equipment that the quality depends on what unit you are in, that is badly maintained because of funds being diverted to the next great new superweapon that they can only afford to.make three of. where the NCO cadre is staffed by casual sadists who mentally physically and sexually abuse lower ranking soldier’s as a matter of course.

          • Giolli Joker

            Although the present of CTA is quite European: http://www. cta-international .com/

            (No longer really in the small arms field, just to say that the direction is that one only in other countries/fields)

        • The LSAT is quite interesting, especially the telescoping ammunition.
          However keep in mind that Singapore has been fielding the Ultimax 100 since 1982, which weighs 10.8lbs to the LSAT’s 9.8lbs.

      • Bal256

        Wow.
        Such innovation.
        Much new design.

        Let’s see here… we have:
        A tacticooled AK, now with quadrail (apparently being inspected by General Sum Ting Wong)

        An updated SVD (tacticooled)
        MPX copy
        Taurus Judge copy
        Tacticooled Remington 1100 copy (although I’d have to admit, I’d probably trust this version more than anything Remington puts out these days)

        Eotech copy
        Some unknown 7.62×51 bolt action rifle (I’m sure THAT’S original)
        A laser designed to blind people by shining in their faces. Like any teenage boy the first time they play around with a laser pointer. so scary.
        Some new-looking grenade launchers. Based on a redesign of a gun made in the 80’s.

        I admit that shot show 2015 was pretty lackluster, but come on. Also, you’re claiming Russia of all places is better at updating and fielding new designs… really?

        • fgt

          Trolling is a art.

          • WeakSauceArguement

            Yeah, he’s having a good time.

            I really enjoy that random nations have superior handguns of unknown make or model, a list of superior medium and heavy machine guns contemporary with and analogous to the FN MAG and M2, superior precision rifles because of some supposed monopoly on accurate long-range bolt actions, the import of the niche PDW/SMG market, and “meh the primary service rifle of all nations are same-same”.

            Has never touched a firearm, let alone use maintain or build.

            But the agitation/manipulation is pretty decent.

    • This is a puzzling statement. Check out the Barret MRAD (modularity and interchangeability) or the Venom Tactical Taipan in .338 lapua (accurate beyond 1800 yards). Cheytac m200 intervention has stable ballistics out to 3000 yards. I could go on. I dont see how we are being “over-matched”.

      • We’re certainly strong on sniper rifles, but that LG5 is reportedly firing high velocity airburst grenades out to 1000 meters. I’m unaware of a US, shoulder fired equivalent. The XM25 fires a smaller projectile 1/2 the range.

        • Joshua

          Reportedly. Has it seen field use? What about harsh environment testing and combat?

          Has it been deployed to a combat zone for a year or two to see how durable it is?

          I know he says it has been tested on Somali pirates but that leaves a lot open.

          For Timothy, the XM29 never went anywhere. We have the XM25 and the out of battery detonation was ammunition related, not rifle related.

          It was a primer issue that came to light during a stoppage. It was not the guns fault.

        • Sometimes more complicated is not better, ive seen the old MK19 auto grenade launcher at work. Its tough, keeps working and is extremely deadly. A 1000 meter airburst launcher that jams all the time would not be worth much. Not to mention cost as a factor. Im sure you could buy several mk19’s for the cost of a souped up model.

          • The MK19 costs $20,000 and weighs 68lbs, and is a vehicle borne weapons system. The LG5 is, based on what limited specs I could find, about 22lbs, and is the size of a Barret 50 caliber rifle. Given that China has a vast labor pool, worlds largest manufacturing capability, and extensive electronics manufacturing experience, I wouldn’t be surprised if the LG5 is in the $5,000-$7,000 range with the electronic optics.

            It’s based on a the older QLZ-87, so there is no reason to suspect that it will jam- it’s basically just a huge semi auto rifle, not a belt fed machine gun. And with a 1000 meter standoff range, even the occasional jam will probably not be much of an issue.

          • Timothy G. Yan

            The LG5 is not based on the QLZ87, but an existing 12.7mm semi-auto anti-material rifle design (AMR-1 and AMR-2).

          • The mk-19 is not always vehicle mounted. It can be used by a three man team. One carries the tripod, one carries the launcher one carries ammo. Its comparable to the Barret .50 in that respect. Using Chinese production costs to determine how much it would cost Americans to make an equivalent system is a flawed supposition. We dont have near slave labor and an intentionally undervalued currency. Just imagine how much a new system would cost if a decades old one is 20k.

          • The LG5 is much smaller than the MK19, and can be fielded by a single man. It’s completely different than the MK19

          • There is one very good reason why we haven’t developed an equivalent to this system. the lg5 is an anti sniper system. Our snipers are already very proficient at taking down other snipers with the weapons i mentioned in my first response post. an anti sniper grenade launcher would be work very well for lesser trained soldiers who cant make accurate shots at that range (1000 meters). Our anti snipers can take down targets much farther than that with our rifles.

          • It’s a sniper rifle that shoots airbursting grenades out to 1000m. It can and will be used for a whole lot beyond anti sniping.

            Here is a report on the XM25 in Afghanistan, which fires smaller grenades at 1/2 the distance as this weapon. Even so, it shows just how effective this tech will become:

            “Five of the weapons(XM25) were deployed with the 101st Airborne Division in Afghanistan in October 2010.The soldiers reported that the weapon was extremely effective at killing or neutralizing enemy combatants firing on US troops from covered positions. As of February 2011, the weapon had been fired 55 times in nine engagements by two units in different locations. It had disrupted two insurgent attacks on observation posts, taken out two PKM machine gun positions, and destroyed four ambush sites. In one engagement, an enemy machine gunner was wounded by or so frightened of the XM25 that he dropped his weapon and ran away. The units with the XM25s had no casualties during the nine engagements. The weapon was called “revolutionary” and “a game-changer.” One platoon leader commented that engagements that would normally take 15 to 20 minutes were over in just a few minutes.” From Wikipedia

    • John

      Oh no. American police is being outgunned by Chinese police. Quick, let’s give the LAPD some M1 Abrams tanks.

      • excellent point. Chinese police are far more militaristic than ours (although that is changing) The debate about whose guns are better than whose is much less compelling than a decisive battlefield victory; and who has more of them. The Chinese or us?

  • Porty1119

    I’m particularly attracted to that CS/LR19 upgraded SVD. Screw you, Norinco import ban, screw you.

  • Darren Hruska

    Nice stuff! The LG5 really caught my attention! It seems mostly like a QLB-06 that was upgraded to compete with the Western XM25, which is cool. Although, I will say that I’m a tad disappointed that we didn’t get anything new on the CS/LR14, the new battle rifle China revealed about a year ago.

  • Matrix3692

    I should confess that i have been translating many of TFB’s post and reposting them on chinese forums and my personal blog……

    but I did have link my posts to the original TFB post every single time.

    but then my posts were always re-posted by some one else without acknowledging me or TFB……

    • Timothy G. Yan

      You’re fine. If you can put a quick link back that would be great and help us out.

      • Matrix3692

        I did, every time I translate and re-post any article, I did put a link back to the original post.

  • Matrix3692

    oh, by the way, the “new” 10mm revolver round is a “Less Than Lethal” ammunition.

    It is called the “Type 2010 10mm Anti-riot Revolver”.

    • Matrix3692

      Here’s some information from Hawk Group’s website.

      “Type 2010 10mm Anti-Riot Revolver”
      Caliber: 10mm
      Total Length: 175mm
      Total Weight: 370g
      Capacity: 5 rounds
      Trigger pull: 48N (on an empty cylinder)
      Ammunition available: 10mm bean bag rounds, 10mm tear gas round
      Effective Range: ≥15m (bean bag), ≥5m (tear gas)
      Muzzle Velocity: 100±10m/s (bean bag), 90±10m/s (tear gas)
      Accuracy (standing posture at 5m range):
      bean bag R50 ≤5cm,
      tear gas R50≤10cm
      Bean Bag Power:
      0% penetration of 25mm thick pine board at 0.5m, able to penetrate 0.1mm thick kraftpaper at15m.

      Rate of Malfunction: ≤0.3%
      Lifespan: ≥3000 rounds
      Range of Operational Environment: -30°C~+45°C

      • Kovacs Jeno

        Interesting non lethal revolver. But velocity without the mass of the bullet is insufficient info. Do you have more on this?

        • Matrix3692

          10mm bean bag round

          Caliber: 10mm
          Total Length: ≤50mm
          Total Ammo Weight: ≤25g
          Projectile Weight: ≥5g
          Muzzle Velocity: 100±9m/s
          Effect Reliability: ≥97%
          Accuracy (Firing from a ballistic device at 5m range): R50≤4cm
          Effective Range: 0.1m~15m
          Range of Operational Environment: -30°C~+45°C
          Storage Lifespan: ≥10 years

          10mm tear gas round

          Caliber: 10mm
          Total Length: ≤50mm
          Total Ammo Weight: ≤25g
          Projectile Weight: ≥5g
          Muzzle Velocity: 90±9m/s
          Method of Function:
          High density tear gas is generated when the projectile ruptures upon impact with target
          Reactant contained within the projectile: 0.05g±0.01g
          Effect Reliability: ≥93%
          Accuracy (Firing from a ballistic device at 5m range): R50≤8cm
          Range of Operational Environment: -30°C~+45°C
          Storage Lifespan: ≥10 years

          • Kovacs Jeno

            Thank you! This is only cca. 25-30 joules, if I calculate correctly. Is tha enough for law enforcement work?
            Our civilian traumatic carry guns are in the 40-100 joule range. Do you know any actual leo experience with these revolvers? Who use them in China?

          • Matrix3692

            Hadn’t heard any actual use of this revolver on the net, but comments from LEOs were not happy about this “gun” to be their “self defence weapon”, the revolver’s DA trigger pull sucks.

            In fact, this revolver wasn’t even classified as a “firearm”, but rather a “Police Equipment”.

  • Matrix3692

    That particular bolt-action sniper rifle is called the “XY Sniper rifle”, not many details about it though.

    • Scrumward bound

      XY sniper rifle, for MEN! Nerd jokes…

  • iksnilol

    I must admit, I like what they did with the SVD. Free floating handguard and heavier barrel. Only way to make it better would be to make it in 308 with M14 mags (and possibly a switch barrel to convert to other calibers like .260 remington).

  • Lance

    That EO tech probably. is a Chinese copy. Bet the bolt action though is 7.62x54R since the PLA is still using the caliber.

    • Matrix3692

      That’s a negative on the last part. PLA and chinese law enforcement units had been using 7.62mm NATO caliber sniper rifles for quite some time now, and although many were used in international competition events, more and more law enforcement unit were seen using sniper rifles of that caliber.

      And the rifle, called “7.62mm XY sniper rifle” was confirmed as 7.62×51mm NATO on numerous Chinese forums.

    • CommonSense23

      Ah, you really excel at proving you have no clue what you are talking about.

    • Friend of Tibet

      Actual EOTECH sights are not that rare in police units in China, especially in Shanghai, guangzhou and Beijing. I have seen picture of Guangzhou Police armory where more than 50 QBZ95 mounted with Eotech 552. The cheap Chinese Copies are for airsoft, not for real firearms. Those Police units are not stupid.

  • Giolli Joker

    I was thinking: super cool grenade launcher (LG5)… until I realized that it’s a Police Equipment Expo, I don’t think I’d like that kind of equipment as crowd control device. :-/
    (Still one of the coolest pieces of Chinese armament, and fully original as well)

    • Matrix3692

      In modern day China, police and military are still quite mixed up, the Higher-ups doesn’t understand enough of their difference in requirements. So Military and Law Enforcement units in China basically share the same set of light arms.

      The most telling thing is that there were no JHP ammo within any Chinese law enforcement unit’s arsenal, despite it is more effective against unarmored criminals.

      • Giolli Joker

        Thanks for the info.
        However, the use of FMJ ball by police wouldn’t sound a telling clue to me, as in most of Europe police has to use exclusively that bullet shape.

  • MANG

    COOL STORY BRO

  • USMC03Vet

    POG jokes. Love it!

  • Friend of Tibet

    Need more infor on CS/LR14, the Tactical Type81 😛

  • Nergyl

    Pretty badass shotgun they’ve got there.

  • Wolfgar

    You mean the pro Muslims trying to enforce sharia law in our cities school systems and universities and succeeding with the help from the so called leftist secularist where Christianity has been virtually shut down. You mean the multiculturalist at Fort Hood who went on a shooting rampage killing American soldiers and our “twice elected” President called work place violence. The multicultualist who tried to go on a killing spree at a Texas free speech rally. You mean the illegal, I mean un- documented immigrants who know the region, speak the language and know what to look for and whats wrong for the Department of Defense’s never ending wars yet have absolutely no clue what our countries constitution or system is based on yet want sharia law passed when their numbers become the majority in our towns. You mean the multiculturalist who prohibit T-shirts with the American flag on Cinco de Mayo. Immigrants are the founding of this country but only if it is done legally and they accept our laws and belief in our constitution. That wont happen if those same people wont even learn our language like my grand parents willingly did to become Americans. The serious threat from China is their economy that Clinton super charged and poisoned our own in the 1990’s. It goes way beyond grenade launchers but hey there’s nothing to be concerned about , I’m just over reacting.

    • Llewellyn Franks

      Woah dude chill

      • Wolfgar

        Said the grasshopper to the ant. 🙂

  • LCON

    The Arms makers and police agencies of the PRC seem to be a bit more progressive to new technologies then the PLA, The Arms shows and other leaks of PAP and PRC agencies show a willingness to more widely use optics and rail systems, that said the PRC seems to lag in independent production of quality versions of such accessories. There producers do however have a unique mindset as proven by the “Sniper Grenade rifle” concept

  • Friend of Tibet

    Since when democide equals to communists? China never achieved the actual communism in any of its history if you actually read the definition of communism. Maybe you should read history book without that tinted rose glass.

  • Timothy G. Yan

    No. It’s a commercial site.

    I have no problem with individual blog or forum reposting.

  • Kivaari

    I am impressed. Chinese weapons and optic makers can produce items to meat the demands of its customers. Having a “Made in China” label doesn’t automatically indicate low quality. Had George HW Bush not screwed with Chinese imports, we shooters could be using some well engineered Chicom gear.

    • Timothy G. Yan

      Most of the Chinese optics are crap. Some has to do with they are not up to speed in the design and quality, but most are due to the foreign importers wanted absolutely the lowest price. Example being they will asked for $5 lower to left one of the internal side of the lens un-coated!

      The big exception is Hi-Lux Leatherwood and that’s because they’re actually owns that own factory, the owner is a trained optical engineer w/ a passion, they are using a very smart Russian optic designer (live in the USA) and they’re taking feedback from someone like yours truly & others that’s much smarter than me.

      • Kivaari

        What I see is the Chinese will build to what ever level the buyer desires. If you want a cheap $30 retail scope, you can have it. If you want a $500 scope you can have it. The American consumers (including the importer) want a price point. They get it – and it’s no surprise it is junk. We need to stop buying junk. Bite the bullet, step up and buy quality. Sometimes even that can bite you. I owned and sold Swarovski optics, and was very disappointed in the quality and inability to withstand harsh weather.

  • Friend of Tibet

    lol sounds like someone is reading too much one sided articles while never actually travel to those places. And seems you are unable to understand the sentence “China never achieved the actual communism”, good day.

    • Cynic

      Anyone who is pro communism always says that x country never achieved real true communism and it will just work if we give it a try this one more time.

      Communism is a pretty ideal but after revolutionary implementation becomes a giant murder machine of social control fear and paranoia generally headed by a cult of personality.

      • Friend of Tibet

        Communism never work in reality, and indeed China never actually achieved actual Communism because the attempt failed. And just because someone says “x country never achieved real true communism ” doesn’t mean he is pro communism. Your logic is similar to north Korean yelling “Anyone who disagree with our dear leader must be evil capitalist dog”

        • Cynic

          Just pointing out that everyone iv heard defending communism as a system uses that as a defence when you bring up the failed attempts.

          China is a combination of communism and a caste system that is crumbling because their economy is held together by smoke and mirrors and they don’t have the ability to innovate. They have massive social problems and a middle class that has a generation of spoiled children that will struggle to find a mate.

          China won’t morph from cheap copier to innovator like the Japanese did and flash on my dealings with Chinese companies it’s because their ethics and attitude is incompatible with trading with the west.

          I know when dealing with a Chinese company I have to budget for being ripped off. I will NEVER send a product back under warranty and will have it fixed in the uk if I can because it will be stolen or disappear or the repair agent will shut down his company. The addresses given won’t be real and the police can do nothing. 3 days later the same product will be back online with a different name on the box from the same address.

          Communism doesn’t work, it becomes either totalitarianism or crony capitalism and full of corruption as a way of life.

  • Wolfgar

    I noticed they dont use true IPSIC size pepper poppers. It would be harder to miss these steel targets than to than hit them. We have 10 year old kids in my shooting club that could out shoot these guys. This is what happens when a country doesn’t have a shooting culture. My fear of China has just decreased 10 fold.

  • Timothy G. Yan

    No detail info has released yet.

  • Friend of Tibet

    State capitalism

  • Friend of Tibet

    State capitalism, just type in the words and read so that your info can be updated from 1960s to 2015, thanks.

  • Friend of Tibet

    Cool story, since I travel to China almost every year I hope you can have a chance to visit the country yourself instead of reading articles. No offence

    • Wolfgar

      My friends who are Christians are now in a Chinese jail since Christianity has been outlawed. When they get out of prison they are un employable. I could elaborate more but since your convinced China is a paradise I’ll stop here. No freedom to religion, no freedom to own firearms, no freedom of speech,etc. etc, Yea China sounds like a great place, “NOT”. My good friend who was a Chinese national would love to debate you but why let truth get in the way of an argument. By the way, the next time you go to China I would love for you to walk down a city street with an anti Chinese government sign, a handgun on your hip, while you hand out Jehovah witness material and tell me what happens to you. Then you can tell me how wonderful China is.I can do these things where I live. Your lack of knowledge of what true freedom is amazes me. Be safe my friend.

      • Friend of Tibet

        If I have a friend who lives in Ferguson he will tell me US is all F**ked up

        If I have a friend who lives in LA on Beverly hill he will tell me life in US is amazing

        And I also have many friends who lives in China sharing different life experiences than your friend. There are 1.3 billion Chinese and seems as an American you fail to understand the concept of “one does not represent all”.

        If I only look articles about how economy is going down in Detroit, how cops are trigger happy in US, how gangs are doing drive by shooting in Compton, can I say US is no different than slums in Brazil?

        You get the point.

        • Wolfgar

          I don’t disagree with your assessment but even in Ferguson the people have constitutional rights and due process. Most cops are not trigger happy here but when they are the people have a right to protest and speak out about it. Back to that freedom of speach clause in our constitution. They don’t have this in China. Detroit, Ferguson and all the other sh%t holes in my country have been taken over years ago by socialist leftist who are more anti capitalist than in China. This proves my point on both ends. Benjamin Fraklin stated ; Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. I couldn’t agree more.

          • Friend of Tibet

            Sure, you mean how US national guard marched in to “support” the protests? And are you saying those riots are representing the proud freedom?

            Not to mention your so called “They don’t have this in China” is purely based on your personal source of information. Recently the police shooting incident (where a cop fired one shot to a suspect tossing children in train station) in China sparked a national debate and protest regarding to firearm and gun politics, from internet to all forms of social media. Yet did you know about it?

            It now seems like you are saying “Because I don’t know it happened, it didn’t happen or exist”. Speaking of firearm ownership, China indeed allow private firearm ownership in certain provinces to allow tribe members go for hunting.

          • Wolfgar

            Destroying property and attaching people is not free speech LOL. My example of protesting in China and where I live says it all. There is a big difference between peaceful protest vs violent protest, I think your reaching here and being a little silly. No I didnt hear about your police shooting.Propaganda is alive and well not only in China but in the U.S.A.Our Second Amendment isn’t about hunting but about division of power. I have to explain this to our leftist leaning people all the time. I would love to have a beer with you someday and discuss these topics. I have enjoyed this little debate with you and you are right about enjoying our firearms and setting aside politics. I do have to comment how wonderful technology has become to allowed 2 people from across the world to have these discussions. Stay safe my friend and keep smiling.

          • Friend of Tibet

            No need to argue here, this is firearm blog after all, we are all here for the guns, not politics.

          • Friend of Tibet

            Let’s enjoy the guns and let all these politics sit aside my friend.

      • Friend of Tibet

        “but since your convinced China is a paradise”

        I am sorry but none of my comments are saying or implying “China is a paradise”

        • Wolfgar

          I sit here corrected , you are right. My apologies.

      • Friend of Tibet

        Maybe you should to walk down a city street with an anti US government sign, a handgun on your hip, while you hand out radical Islamic material and tell me what happens to you. Since you are so convinced you can do these stuff in US…….

        • Wolfgar

          I could with ease. Freedom of speech doesn’t require it to be popular. I disagree with many peoples opinions but I will always stand up for their right to say it. Our Republic protects the minority as well as the majority and this is how it should be. The out come would be far different in most countries especially China.

  • Friend of Tibet

    And I agree with your opinion, mostly.

  • Virtually all of those pistols are made in Europe. The Sig SP2022 was designed and originally built in Switzerland and Germany, the Springfield HS2000 is designed and made in Croatia, etc.

    Tellingly the most recent US pistol design was the R51, which was an abomination.

    The Walther PPQ represents the currently most innovative pistol on the market, as it was the first to feature a single action striker firing system. This completely changes the trigger feel over the “partial cocked” striker firing systems of before found in the glock, XD, MP, etc. It’s currently the closest trigger out there to the 1911 in terms of crispness and pull weight.

    It’s a shame Walther doesn’t get more credit. They were the first to use advanced ergonomics in a polymer pistol, as well as the first to use removable backstraps, in their P99. Then they come out with the PPQ, which completely changes the feel of striker fired triggers, only to be overshadowed by the VP9, which is a nearly identical but inferior clone.

  • Veloxto

    Some how I don’t think these guys are all that concerned about the IPSIC or competition shooting.