Coming Soon: Modern Weapon Systems ION

ion

Modern Weapon Systems is a Missouri based firm that originally was exclusively involved in dealing firearms. Its Owner, Ian McFarland is a product of the automotive industry and his knowledge of machining and the principles of torque, recoil, and combustion led to him deciding to develop a firearm of his own. I met Ian completely by coincidence at SHOT as we were on the same bus to an event put on by KRISS, and a month ago he gave me a call letting me know about a gun he has designed… which I think is radical.

Ian’s product is called the ION and it will be available in the second quarter of 2015, however there will be examples at SHOT and we should be able to test one as soon as the good people at MWS have one for us to use.

The Ion is fully designed around the 22TCM round and utilizes a gas piston for optimal reliability. It will be available in several lengths, and also in select fire:

Print

OAL of All Versions

 

This means there will be a dedicated SMG, pistol, SBR, and rifle in the ION line.

 

AD RHINO 3-01

Click here for full size.

 

Some features of the ION:

  • All billet, high tolerance construction
  • Patented, honed barrels
  • Side charging
  • Integral sliding stock system or option for AR buffer tube attachment
  • Integral PDQ lever
  • Nickel boron carrier system
  • Nickel boron ~3lb trigger
  • Carbon fiber handguard
  • 35rd magazine capacity
  • Round capable of defeating body armor… that you can make yourself
  • Inherently low recoil
  • Melonite coating on barrel and miscellaneous components

With an MSRP of $1,699 this could make for one hell of a fun little gun. Unlike 5.7x28mm, you can make and reload .22TCM which is a definite plus for this gun.

Ian has been teasing us along the way with some photos of the gun in developmental stages, making Phil and I all too eager to see what the boys at MWS bring along with them to SHOT:

ionn

mag

MWS also has a conversion kit for an AR15 to .22TCM that will be available very soon as well, and I for one look forward to giving it a try. You can view a video of it running here:

 

Look for our article on the MWS booth during SHOT!



Alex C.

Alex is a Senior Writer for The Firearm Blog and Director of TFBTV.


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  • mechamaster

    Nice idea and design for AR15 based PDW family, it’s bridging gap between MPX sub machinegun and KAC PDW.

    • I think you are right on the money.

      • roguetechie

        I’d like to do a type 05 Chinese bullpup smg homage…. Leaving enough space for things like 5.56 and 9×30 MARS size as well as 357 maximum and 30 carbine…

        I think with modern powders and high SD bullets you could build a freakishly good performance combat round that’d still punch a CRISAT pack at 350 meters…all in something light and small enough to be very handy even from the cab of a hemtt… And by opening the envelope to 350 you threaten the majority of akm toting cannon fodder with something that will punch through their Chinese chest pouch of akm mags at beyond their effective range….

        Plus you could have an adapter to run tokarev!! Loves me some tokarev!!

  • What is the 22TCM round?

    • WasThere

      a 5.7 mm bullet, in a shortened .223 case
      Benefits- subject to interpretation

      • Ian Mcfarland

        40GR BULLET IN A SHORTENED 5.56 CASE.

        • iksnilol

          .223 and 5.56 are the same thing. Only American guns that are stamped with .223 are unsafe to use with 5.56.

          • handyhammers

            So, thay are not the same, then.

          • iksnilol

            They are the same. It is just that in America .223 is rated to a lower pressure than in the rest of the world (SAAMI vs C.I.P.). The cases are the same, only real difference is in the chamber.

            There is a good article and test about it on LuckyGunner. I would put in a link but that would cause my comment to be delayed. It is called “5.56 vs .223 – What You Know May Be Wrong”.

            The only reason Saigas and whatnot are stamped .223 and not 5.56 is for legal reasons (there are some countries like Italy that consider .223 a “civilian” caliber while 5.56 is “millitary” and thus prohibited).

    • You’d have a heckuva lot better trajectory and penetration than a pistol caliber, to start.

    • whskee

      That very question is why I fear this thing will be obscure despite interesting. Not enough adopters of the round, at a time when things like 300blk are still riding a wave (despite waning now I think). If there’s no major manufacturers behind it or some commonality with another good pairing, I don’t see it going anywhere.

      • Ian Mcfarland

        THIS YEAR IS GOING TO BE BIG FOR 22TCM

        • whskee

          Whats with the CAPS!? WHY ARE WE YELLING!? Why? What is this offering by way of innovation or accessibility that you think ‘this’ year is going to be big for it?

          It’s not SAAMI spec’d. Armscor makes some ammo, but it’s costly in comparison. Reloading isn’t for the masses. Not many weapons in production with it, and of those that are, they are costly. I’d expect zero MIL/LE adoption. What’s 22tcm got going for it beside some reloaders and tinkerers?

          • Ian Mcfarland

            It costs less than the 45acp 357 or 44mag the cost is not an issue, the round is easy to find. As I said several weapons are coming this year hang onto your shorts.

            NO YELLING HERE I JUST LIKE TO USE CAPS, BECAUSE IT BOTHERS people like YOU.

            I wouldn’t be so sure to rule out police and military adoption, but I am more worried about you the civilian having superior fire power before them anyway.

            If Armscor is making plenty why does it need a saami spec. Thats a lazy reason not to make a gun you don’t need that to make a firearm.

          • whskee

            One producer is a single point of failure, and I didn’t say they made plenty. And the vast majority of us civilians have access to whatever caliber we want, including this one. But the civilian would be better suited to being able to _get_ that caliber. Can’t shoot what you don’t have. Pretty sure if I went into my local shops and asked for 22tcm they’d be like, “you mean 22LR?”. I don’t doubt some will want it, I just don’t see it taking off. I can’t figure out where it fits in the picture.

            I have to hold to my belief it’s in the realm of tinkerers and reloaders, not the masses. I think it look’s like it would be fun to shoot and appreciate just about any innovation in our culture, I just can’t take it seriously outside of messing around because I could.

          • iksnilol

            because SAAMI spec = more companies producing it = more people using it

          • Paul Epstein

            I’m comfortable ruling out police and military adoption. The benefits are minimal compared to 5.56, it imposes stark restrictions as far as what weapons can be used as opposed to the plethora of both cheap and high grade weapons available in 5.56, neither the weapons nor ammunition are available in quantities suitable for equipping a decent sized police force or small army, nor will they be in the future.

            And, seriously, this is not in any way ‘superior firepower’ in the hands of civilians, it is less powerful and less suitable for home defense and as a boutique round it makes it more likely you’ll lose a criminal or civil case after using it defensively. As far as other uses, it is not, in any way, suitable for taking deer even if you think 5.56 is acceptable in that role. It doesn’t have as flat a trajectory either, so it’s not going to be adopted as a varmint round. The guns are too expensive to replace .22 LR rifles for beginners or plinkers, and it doesn’t seem to be cheaper as a round and I haven’t seen it in any stores so that kills the availability argument.

            IMO, the round is going to be niche at best next year and extinct within five.

          • Jared Vynn

            The 22tcm gets about 2100fps with a 40gr bullet in a 5 inch barrel. The .223 55gr gets about 1800fps in a 5 inch barrel.
            22tcm is almost as powerful as 223 in shorter barrels, about 30ft-lbs less in a 5 inch barrel, but is no less suitable for home defense. It is a pistol/pdw/sbr round, not a rifle round like the .223.

            Comparing 22tcm to .223 is like comparing apples and tomatoes; they are both red and fruits, but taste drastically different and have very different culinary uses.

          • Paul Epstein

            So in a weapon almost no one uses, a 5 inch barreled PDW, the TCM is only somewhat more effective using a lighter bullet? You’re damning it with faint praise there.

            And saying it’s like apples and tomatoes is ludicrous- apples don’t need to remove the tomatoes already in use to survive. If the .22 TCM does not replace the short barreled, and by that I mean ten to fourteen inch barrel, carbines currently in use by military and law enforcement, then it’s already dead with that customer base. Leaving civilian sales.

            Civilians generally do not use super short barreled weapons, other than traditional pistols in traditional calibers, for self defense. I know the .22 TCM is available in these pistols (very large sized) and 1911 variants (very low capacity), but I don’t think either is going to sell enough to create demand on store shelves for the ammo.

          • Jared Vynn

            22tcm could be superior as it has LESS recoil, LESS weight, and likely less flash and bange than the .223 Short barreled rifles. .223 was not designed for shorter barrels where as 22tcm was and performs well in. It will not in anyway replace the majority of the 14 inch .223 carbines out there (it could replace the 10 inch, but unlikely), it may replace weapons such as the mp5 or other pistol caliber machine guns and PDWs.
            The ar15 platform was never designed to be a compact weapon where as the ION is. It has an overall length of 22 inches with a 10 inch barrel, an ar15 with a 10 inch barrel is usually about 30 inches. With the 14 inch barrel you got a 33 inch overall. It is much shorter and probably a couple pounds lighter.

            As for the current pistol offerings they are the initial doublestack 1911 offering 17 rounds (low capacity? hardly) and the new single stack offering 10 rounds (not bad for a 1911). the only other pistol I know of is to be the ION at 35 rounds, also not low capacity.

            You can’t directly compare this to a .223 rifle as they are meant for drastically different purposes. Comparing it to 5.7, 9mm, .40, or other pistol cartridges would make more sense however as they are closer in performance and design intent. The 22tcm performs with about the same energy as 9mm in a 5 inch barrel, but with a third the bullet weight.

            I doubt we will see much if any Law enforcement or military adoption, it will likely follow the same path as the 5.7 round before it.

          • Rick

            the articles i found on the round, including wikipedia which can be suspect, listed the TCM at 1800.

            a 40 grain bullet is the same weight as I fire standard .22LR, but with maybe 75% more velocity. (I prefer “HV” that gets just under 1200 real world out of a 10/22

            however the “new” round gets over twice the kinetic energy than the 22lr.

            But then, so does +P 9mm. And I can get that almost anywhere even here in California.

            If I were going to go out of my way to deal with the legalities of a SBR or PDW, I think I’ll go for a round that I can find supplies for easily, and have a good chance of knowing others who also use it.

          • fmike15

            Check out some youtube videos about the 22TCM. I have no qualms about carrying mine for protection. I only wish there were a double action version.

    • John Daniels

      It fits roughly the same niche as .22 Hornet, but it’s rimless and way easier to reload than 5.7x28mm.

      This would be useful for urban and suburban centers that have been overrun by coyotes.

      • noob

        hmm. How does it compare in performance to other PDW rounds like FN’s 5.7x28mm or 5.7x30mm MINSAS from india?

        I’m seeing a lot of PDW calibers with very similar case dimensions, but the interesting part will be projectile weight and max pressure.

        Will they be pretty much the same performance-wise and the only difference being how easy it is to make brass for reloading?

        or are some dedicated cases like MINSAS and FN 5.7x28mm able to be loaded hotter for better range?

        • John Daniels

          .22 TCM is a pistol cartridge, not a PDW cartridge, so it likely won’t match the two you mentioned.

          Asking how to load for better range sort of misses the point of a PDW, IMO. They’re designed for use not generally beyond 100 yards, and almost always much closer than that. They’re designed for use by hostage rescue teams, SWAT teams, and other similar groups that frequently work in short range urban environments. Searching for more range out of a PDW is…..well, there’s a reason it’s a question nobody is asking.

  • WasThere

    AWESOME!

  • J.T.

    Any plans for a 9mm upper?

    Also, ditch the cheesy rail on the side of the receiver.

    • It is detachable.

    • Ian Mcfarland

      WHY BEAT A DEAD HORSE WITH ANOTHER 9MM. NO THE CHEESY RAIL WILL STAY YOU’LL LIKE IT ON YOUR GUN TRUST ME.

      • J.T.

        First off, you should probably consider hiring someone for PR. Responding to the questions and critiques of potential customers with a poorly punctuated caps lock mini-rant and suggesting they don’t know what they want in a gun is a good way to turn people away from your business.

        Second. Why beat a dead horse with another 9mm? Because that is what you are competing with in the market. Your main competitors at this point, at least on the pistol and SBR end of things, are the CZ Scorpion EVO (which is half the price of yours) and the SIG MPX-P (which is in the same price range). People are going to lean towards guns that can shoot ammo they already have and that they are able to find at any store that sells it. Even Armscor, the company who created .22 TCM knew this which is why all their guns that chamber it come with a 9mm conversion from the factory.

        Third. No, I will not like it. If I am going to put a light or laser on the gun, I am going to put it on the handguard rails, where I don’t have to remove my firing hand from the gun in order to turn it on and off. Having anything on that rail also looks like it would be extremely inconvenient for left handed shooters.

        • Ian Mcfarland

          Well jt obviously you cannot help everyone some people just like to pound their keyboard and rant like yourself. I do care to compete with Sig or cz obviously their pockets are deep, hence why I’m going after innovation, quality and built in the USA pride rather than selling 7 million units in a quarter. I sell in our store a lot of higher end guns and guns like COONAN, Rhino etc. People buy guns that are uniuqe who would have thought you could sell a Rhino ar for 3k? Or a 357 magnum semi auto pistol for $1400.00? I mean the ammo is hard to find still today, no one else does it, and my God its 1400 and 3k? Well let me tell you something we sell a tons of both. Not one customer has come back with an issue. That’s because these guns are built 100% perfect while the others mentioned in the same price range will most likely be built with the cheapest materials and put together like a $500 ar15, and I’ll bet built outside the USA, not sure on that but that’s a good bet. Our gun is built here in Missouri, nothing outside the USA and built by my local community. We are using only the highest quality metals, coatings, barrels and tolerances nothing in the gun will be cheap or cast. Being I’m in the same range as the MPX then I just gave you more for you money a gun that will look way better and be worth more. So you want to beat a dead horse giving your money to a company that doesn’t innovate and move people to a better round then the 9mm and make it popular and give you what you are paying for in quality or give your money to the big dogs who are just looking to give you the same dog in a different dress and charge you more for less again?

          As far as the lefty shooters I’m sorry but we did not design the gun for you however you may be able to shoot it and the rail can be removed it is not laid out for you unfortunately.

          • iksnilol

            The MPX has the advantage of being able to switch calibers easily. The “ION” doesn’t have that yet it costs the same. To me it seems like less gun for the same money then.

            Also, You will never get rid of 9x19mm… just like piece of shrapnel stuck in you that doesn’t harm you.

            + if you want to keep that goofy rail at least make one on the other side too, for people who shoot left-handed.

  • There are a lot of weapons like this being designed. It makes me wonder what is driving this thread of innovation; perhaps a specific requirement?

    • Esh325

      I guess the idea behind it is like the 5.7×28, sort of an in between when a 9mm is not enough and a 5.56×45 is too much in CQB situations.

      • CommonSense23

        When is 5.56×45 to much?

        • Esh325

          I suppose high velocity rounds have tendency to deflect more, and perhaps out of short barrels like 10 inches the blast from a 5.56×45 may be too much.

          • CommonSense23

            Thats why they make RRLP, sound suppressors and peltors.

          • Frank

            Adding a suppressor kind of ruins the length. If you’re a cop in a city 5.56 is overpowered as hell for any kind of engagement you’re likely to be in.

          • CommonSense23

            You know that you can just a reflex suppressor, Have a 14 inch suppressed as long as a 10inch suppressed. And you know the FBI HRT switched from sub guns to rifles so they would have less over penetration.

    • Ian Mcfarland

      WE THE PEOPLE NEED BETTER FIRE POWER! THAT’S WHY WE DID IT.

      • iksnilol

        BUT YOU COULD HAVE DONE THE SAME THING USING 7.62X25 AND ENJOYED CHEAPER/MORE AVAILABLE AMMO AND MAGAZINES.

  • CommonSense23

    Hey let’s put a laser light combo as far as possible from where you should put a push pad. Genius.

    • Nicks87

      I was wondering about ejected cases hitting the laser/light combo or optic as well. Just seems like a dumb place to have a rail.

      • Ian Mcfarland

        I HOPE YOU WOULDN’T REALLY THINK WE DIDN’T THINK OF THAT BEFORE SPENDING ALL THE MONEY TO BUILD THIS FINE PIECE?

    • Put a grip there and use the gun like a hammer drill.

      • CommonSense23

        That is the most amazing idea I have heard in years.

    • Ian Mcfarland

      ACTUALLY THE LASER AND LIGHT IS CLOSER WHERE IT IS THEN ON THE HAND GUARD.

      • CommonSense23

        Oh please explain how that makes any sense.

  • Christian Hedegaard-Schou

    What part of “10mm” do these people not understand???!

    • The part where your wallet begs for mercy when you dump a mag?

      • Christian Hedegaard-Schou

        Weird. I reload 10mm for probably $.10/rd using cast 180gr bullets. The cheapest .22tcm listed on gunbot is right now sitting at $.36/rd. You can buy factory new 10mm ammo for less than $.50/rd, making the price difference not really significant.

        And again, if you reload, it becomes a moot argument.

        • I don’t, so I just look at the price of 10mm and nope right out of the aisle. Besides, wouldn’t loading 10mm the right way (hot) require hard casting with a high amount of antimony and a gas check?

          • Christian Hedegaard-Schou

            You run/moderate a firearm blog and DONT reload?

            Well… Now I’ve heard everything.

            And loading up 180gr lead at 1200-1300 fps is fine. I don’t use gas checks and have minimal to no leading.

          • I only single stage for obsolete calibers. And Steve runs this place πŸ™‚

            And why shoot 10mm if you aren’t going to run it at least Norma hot? I have never understood why people load it no more strongly than 40 caliber Smith & Wesson.
            I know damn well you can push those projectiles faster than 1300 (at least in some platforms).
            What do you shoot it out of out of curiosity?

          • Christian Hedegaard-Schou

            Norma hot was a 200gr bullet at about 1200fps. That’s not easily attainable. You can do it with 800X but you’re close to the SAAMI pressure limits of the cartridge.

            The hottest ammo available is from Underwood, and I load VERY similarly to what they produce.

            I definitely load stronger than .40S&W. I just try not to go above SAAMI specs.

            There’s only so many powders available that will let you get velocities that high in the cartridge while staying within the 37KPSI limit.

          • I know the original Norma 10mm was hotter than advertised. I clocked them at 200 grain/1325fps from a Delta Elite.

          • I’m the moderator and associate editor and I reload a LOT!
            Alex is the senior writer and along with the other writers I encourage them to be active with the readers. Besides Alex wrote the article he should be involved with the readers.

        • BattleshipGrey

          Thanks for quoting the price on the tcm. I was just about to ask since I couldn’t find it on my favorite vendors’ sites.

        • Don’t you have problems with barrel leading or do you keep the velocity down?

        • iksnilol

          how many rounds do you reload per hour? Is your time free?

  • Nicks87

    “Round capable of defeating body armor… that you can make yourself”. 5.56/.223 can penetrate most body armor and I can buy it at Walmart. So what was the benefit of .22TCM again?

    • Shorter, lower recoil, more compact weapons.

      • Nicks87

        Not enough to justify a new weapon system. I think this thing is going to fall flat on its face. Who is going to buy it? Not the military, too expensive and no need for it. The Police? They have better options in their armories already and stock piles of ammo. Also the market for wildcats and specialty ammo is very small, people dont want guns that fire rounds that are not readily availible.

        • Ian Mcfarland

          MILITARY AND POLICE HAVE BEEN PAYING 1500+ FOR STAMPED STEEL HK MP5’S FOR YEARS. BUT WHY WOULD WE WANT THAT ANYWAY,THE CIVILIANS NEED BETTER FIREPOWER FIRST.

    • iksnilol

      You can make armor piercing ammo out of everything. Just take a hollow point, insert a steel ball (BB or something) in the cavity and wax/glue it in place. Done right it shouldn’t affect accuracy. Or you can use a soft point bullet and drill in it through the point (vertically) and insert a steel nail inside (it should be a press fit). The latter is harder to do but better for rifles. As an added bonus, the pistol rounds feed better in old pistols and whatnot. So the whole “armor piercing ammo you can make at home” is a bit moot.

  • allannon

    I was interested until I saw the pricetag. Just can’t justify that much. πŸ™

  • Patriot Gunner

    Another answer to a question nobody asked. And talk about innovation! How did they ever think of making a AR 15 pattern rifle in a caliber barely anyone shoots?!?!?!?! And at ONLY $1699? What a bargain! (slight hint of sarcasm)

    • USMC03Vet

      All the AR boutiques down rated you bro.

      It’s ok. Don’t think for one minute you’re the minority.

      • Patriot Gunner

        Thanks brother. I would definitely agree with you there. We were all thinking it, I just happened to say it.

  • darthcoder

    Since when can you not reload 5.7×28?

    • You can, but we all know how sensitive it is. Plus you have to be careful not to remove the lubricating polymer on the cases.

  • Jared Vynn

    From what I have read on it 22tcm is actually more powerful as it pushes a 40gr at about 2100fps while the factory 5.7 40gr is at about 2000fps.

    • Ian Mcfarland

      1850FPS ON THE 5.7 IN A 5″ BARREL

      • Jared Vynn

        So that shows a 250fps between the two out of just a pistol. What kind of velocities does the 22tcm get out of a 10 inch barrel?
        I believe it was supposed to be about 2800 fps out of a 18 inch barrel.

  • gunsandrockets

    I’ve wondered about a .22 TCM upper for the AR-15. I would think a plain blowback action would be adequate to handle the cartridge.

    In addition, why not use standard AR magazines? That could allow loading the .22 TCM with considerably longer and or heavier bullets than the pistol fired version.

    • Jared Vynn

      The 22tcm is a high pressure round, don’t think it would be safe in a blow back.

      • iksnilol

        Depends if the bolt is heavy enough. Also the minimum bolt weight is different for open and closed bolt blowback.

      • gunsandrockets

        Since it is safe in a 1911 pistol recoil operated action, I think it would be safe in an AR blowback action.

      • Ian Mcfarland

        THE GUN IS A CLOSED LOCKED BOLT SYSTEM

    • Ian Mcfarland

      CORRECTLY MADE MAGAZINES ARE REQUIRED FOR RELIABLE OPERATION THEE GUN IS GROUND UP BUILT FOR TCM AND THE NEW TCM9R ROUND COMING OUT SOON.

      THE FUTURE OF TCM IS GOING TO BE BIG THIS YEAR.

      • gunsandrockets

        Dude! Caps key off please.

        Since the .22 TCM is nothing more than a shortened .223, I don’t see why a standard AR magazine shouldn’t be any more adaptable to the .22 TCM than it is for the .300 AAC.

        I fail to see why the larger magwell of an AR should not be exploited to allow the .22 TCM to use a wider and more useful range of bullets, than it can from the magwell of a M1911 pistol. Even if that means sacrificing the most reliable operation from the standard little 40 grain roundnose bullet.

        • Ian Mcfarland

          why do caps bother people so much. really?

          please install a 22tcm into a 556 mag see what happens.

          get back to me please, when you do.

          • gunsandrockets

            internet commenting etiquette 101

          • Jared Vynn

            As you can see there is almost half of the magazine left empty, the rounds are more likely to nosedive than feed reliably. 45cap and 300 blackout for some scale.

          • gunsandrockets

            Thanks for the image. Pretty much confirms a standard OAL .22 TCM is a bad idea in a standard AR mag.

            I still like the idea of a heavier longer ogive bullet for the .22 TCM, similar to the 5.45mm ball. And for increased cartridge OAL you need a longer magazine. The question is whether the standard AR magazine could be adaptable for that purpose. Perhaps a .22 TCM conversion AR upper could have built in feed lips?

          • Jared Vynn

            Some reloaders have used hornady 40gr 40gr bullets in the 1911 successfully so the m4 ramps on some uppers may be sufficient.

          • gunsandrockets

            What is the maximum cartridge OAL the ION magazine will function reliably with?

  • BattleshipGrey

    I think the only angle you’d ever have is to show that you reload to match a certain spec load in order to save money and train with the same SD ammo as your practice ammo too. It’d still be an uphill battle, but if self defense and gun ownership is an inalienable right, that extends to the poor and frugal as well. But again, it’s an uphill battle that I hope none of us have to face.

  • Rogier Velting

    I can’t be the only one who’d love to see a 7.62x25mm Tokarev version of this… right?

    • iksnilol

      No you are not. 7.62×25 works perfectly for sub guns to increase range and penetrate well. Have you seen .224 BOZ? That is a 7.62×25 using saboted 5.56 bullets (50 grain IIRC).

      • Rogier Velting

        I think you have it confused with the .223 Timbs, though both are names I hadn’t heard in a while. The BOZ is 10mm or 9mm (they switched to 9mm later in development) necked down to .224. The best part is, you can use .223 Timbs in an unmodified 7.62×25, though it’s been designed for the CZ-52. Still, it could offer quite good flexibility, without requiring a proprietary chamber. IIRC, Teppo Jutsu and Heavy Metal made an AR-15 in 7.62 Tokarev, that used an insert to allow the use of PPS-43 magazines in a standard AR-15 lower.

        • iksnilol

          Yeah, you are right. .224 BOZ is a 10mm (later 9mm) necked down to 5.56. Though the 9×19 is essentially a shortened 7.62×25 with a wider bullet. IIRC 9mm Parabellum was a derivative of the 7.63 Parabellum and 7.62 Tokarev was just an improved version of the 7.63 Parabellum.

          A decent gun would be something like a P90 only chambered in 7.62×25.

          • Rogier Velting

            Or something along these lines (or more MPX style) in 7.62×25 could be rather nice as well πŸ™‚
            Then again, for civilians a regular AR-15 lower can be more practical (especially for SBR or even full auto builds).

  • Nice design. Now make it in a real caliber.

  • gunslinger

    why does ION sound like someething so cheesy out of an 80’s flick?

  • andrey kireev

    Well, CZ EVO Scrop is much more attractively priced… gonna get it instead = ,

    • Ian Mcfarland

      i WILL BE GETTING ONE TOO, VERY NICE INJECTION MOLDED GUN AND THE PRICE IS CRAZY. BUT IF YOU WANT A 22TCM GUN THIS IS GOING TO BE AN AMAZING HIGH END PIECE FOR ANY COLLECTION.

      • iksnilol

        Can’t you just convert a 9x19mm to .22 TCM? So wouldn’t it be cheaper to get the Scorpion and a converson barrel?

        • Jared Vynn

          22tcm needs a longer magazine. You could probably convert something in .45 or 10mm but 40 and 9 the magazine would be too small.

          • iksnilol

            Then why do the .22 TCM 1911 pistols come with a 9mm barrel? And why do they say the mags can take both .22 TCM and 9x19mm?

            You have me confused.

          • Jared Vynn

            They took a 308super magazine and modified it for 22tcm. 9mm can be used in the 22tcm mag as it’s shorter but since the 22tcm is about the same OAL as 45acp the 22tcm won’t fit.

          • iksnilol

            Makes sense.

  • Adam aka eddie d.

    Interesting concept, I kind of like it.
    That’s why a few critical thoughts crossed my mind after looking at the pictures
    and reading the article:

    – The gun looks relatively small, but the billet construction and the piston operating method implies a rather hefty weight.

    – A new generation firearm in 2015, and still no option for 100% ambi operation.
    Guys, there are lefties in this world too. I myself have quite a few of them around me.

    – That big lip on the magwell extends way far forward.
    Not a big deal of course, but it’d be worth rethinking IMHO.
    Lower profile, better aesthetics and a more comfortable grip, if you hold it at the magwell.
    It’s a billet gun, the receiver’s model can easily be changed without scrapping a 30.000 dollar forging die.

  • Adam aka eddie d.

    Oh, one more thing:
    I’m not an engineer, let alone a firearms engineer,
    but common sense tells me if you put that laser-light module
    onto the designated rail, every time the gun ejects a shell, it will block
    out both the laser and the light beam.
    Haven’t seen it in use, so this is just calculated guessing,
    but judging from its location it pretty much looks like it.

    • Ian Mcfarland

      THE BULLET HITS THE UPPER AND DEFLECTS DOWN AND FORWARD RIGHT., NO WHERE NEAR THE BEAM OR LASER.

      • Ian Mcfarland

        ANOTHER WAY TO USE THE SIDE RAIL WANT LONG AND SHORT RANGE OPTICS. WITH THE 22TCM YOU CAN REACH OUT A LITTLE FURTHER. SO 4X32 ON TOP RMR ON THE SIDE FOR CLOSE SHOTS.ONLY ON THE MWS ION!

      • Adam aka eddie d.

        Well, good to know then, Ian, thank you. πŸ™‚

  • publius1969

    I am not familiar with this round. Does anyone know what suppressors would with this rifle? thanks!

    • Ian Mcfarland

      ANY HIGHER PRESSURE 22LR LIKE A FULL AUTO CAN OR 5.7 RATED ONE.

      • publius1969

        Thank you

  • handyhammers

    I just got back from MWS, and got to play a lil with Ian’s ION. We discussed the goodies, and then he described a couple of the changes that he made in mid development; Improved butt stock latch, and locking system. My first impression was nothing short of impressed. This dandy firearm is just an awesome culmination of good ideas. Nomenclature is familiar, since it follows the M4. Mag release, bolt catch, and trigger are all where you expect them when you handle the weapon. The Rhino trigger was just smooth. The weapon was designed to allow the operator to cycle all functions of firing while maintaining target sighting. Big plus when the SHTF. Less movement=more shots on target. After molesting the ION for a few moments, Ian pulled the takedown pin, so I could see all the neat innards. The most unique was his proprietary bolt. Blowback operation and no gasses in the receiver. Brilliant. I like the use of dead space above and rear of the ejector port. This is where you will find a pic rail offset by 45 degress for an accessory. It is shielded by the receiver frame that is thick enough to serve as a case deflector.

    I was told I could take delivery of my own ION in six months. Just enough time to save my pennies. Time to make room in the gun locker…

    • Jared Vynn

      how was the weight and overall length?

      • handyhammers

        It’s a solid milled billet. I’d say about a pound lighter. The reciever is a full inch shorter than an M4, from behind the trigger. He had the 10 inch barrel on it. Pretty compact. 16-17 inches with the stock collapsed. I’m just guessing. I didn’t measureit.

        • Jared Vynn

          Awesome, gonna be a good year.

  • Very very true!

  • Giolli Joker

    Overall machining of the receiver seems sweet!
    Interesting gun, let’s see.

  • Ian Mcfarland

    No but why should military law etc have better toys?

  • Jared Vynn

    I believe it can fit in the 10 and 45 mags, it is just a hair too long for the 40.

  • I’d be down with having a carbine in .22 TCM. Gives me another reason to get into it.

  • Rick

    thanks for the update. If I’d known the info came from CTD I’d have stopped right there.

  • Mazryonh

    10mm is probably the upper limit you can get with a CQB/PDW type of gun that can share magazines (or at least ammo) with a service handgun. Besides, 10mm uses the same bullets as does the common .40 S&W does, simplifying production (and possibly logistics).

    Furthermore, 10mm is less wasteful of its powder than .50 AE would be. Anyone who shoots that cartridge has to deal with the massive blast and flash, which isn’t going towards propelling the bullet faster. This makes it easier to suppress and less harsh on parts, and can work well without gas operation.

    Besides, the 10mm for a pistol cartridge has plenty of effective range (even from handguns) and hitting power already.

  • Hyok Kim

    Nice idea. Would be the ultimate SHTF gun.

  • fmike15

    I have a RIA in 22TCM. I don’t see why the magazine can’t go through the grip and shorten the OAL. The price??? Wow you can buy a Tavor and use widely available ammo and non-proprietary magazines and actually save money. Don’t get me wrong, I love my 22TCM handgun but this platform is pretty ridiculous considering the alternatives.

    • Mazryonh

      It’s likely to simplify manufacturing in case they try to adapt this gun to rifle calibers. Besides, submachine guns that load from the pistol grip haven’t been popular for a long time (the Uzi is probably the most famous model, but it’s rather old).