LAPD To Issue H&K MP7s to Motorcycle and K9 Patrol

According to Tactical Shit, a high profile customer has seen LAPD practicing with select fire MP7s.

Rumor has it that the testing that began in 2013 has been completed and certain Motorcycle Police and K9 Officers are being issued the Elusive and Exclusive Heckler and Koch MP7 Sub machine gun in select fire versions.

Recently a high profile visitor to our shop confirmed seeing these officers training with these weapons in full auto at a California range.

Like many others, I wish H&K would make it for the civilian market like Kel-Tec is making the CMR-30 for civilians. They could easily go the pistol route like CZ-USA is with their Scorpion Evo3.

Nicholas C

Co-Founder of KRISSTALK forums, an owner’s support group and all things KRISS Vector related. Nick found his passion through competitive shooting while living in NY. He participates in USPSA and 3Gun. He loves all things that shoots and flashlights. Really really bright flashlights.

Any questions please email him at


  • Patrick Mingle

    If I were a tax payer in LA I wouldn’t be happy about all the 4.6x30mm they are going to have to source

    • thedonn007

      I agree with your statement. Who needs another oddball caliber to stock.

  • Patriot Gunner

    I would have gone with the FN P90

    • thedonn007

      I agree with you. If it is good enough for the secret service, i ought to be good enough for the LAPD.

      • True but the HK does look smaller?

        • BattleshipGrey

          So will these officers carrying the MP7 be carrying a regular sidearm as well, or does this fill BOTH the pistol and PDW subgun role?

      • CommonSense23

        The Secret Service really isn’t the end all be all of tactical expertise. How much actual experience do they have? Considering that more combat has happened with the HK than the FN with at least us forces, it probably is a safe bet to stick with the HK.

        • BattleshipGrey

          US forces aren’t the end all be all either and the FN shouldn’t be discounted strictly because they’ve been used less in or by the US.

          • CommonSense23

            Never said that they were but the HK is pretty much universal in all the European SOF forces also, the FN is nowhere as close.

          • BattleshipGrey

            The wikipedia usage list for both weapons shows a lot more favor to the P90 worldwide, including Europe, whereas the MP7 is mainly limited to Europe.

          • CommonSense23

            Yes the P90 does have more users world wide, but the fact is still that the higher end SOF groups have universally gone with the HK over the FN.

    • iksnilol

      The P90 is nice but IMO they messed up by only making it in their proprietary caliber.

      Also I believe that mag changes are easier with the MP7, and the mags are less bulky.

      • Not ernie

        Well the MP7 is also of the proprietary caliber of 4.6x30mm. The magazine change would certainly be easier to learn, as it is basically the same as a pistol.

        • iksnilol

          I know, I guess the caliber issue was just a digression on my part. I also know that the MP7 is easy to shoot on full auto, my friend without FA experience (and little experience with guns in general) managed to keep it on target at I believe 15-25 meters.

      • Seburo

        Besides over pressure 9mm. What other viable PDW caliber existed in the late 1980s?

        • iksnilol

          7.62×25 and 10mm auto are both viable but you missed my point: most people don’t buy it because of the oddball cartridge. If they made the P90 exactly the same as it is just in 9×19, 40 s&w and .45 acp it would become much more widespread.

          • Seburo

            There really isn’t that much difference between 9mm and 45acp when it comes to making a wound cavity. Also without overpressure none of those can penetrate Class IIIA body armor. PDWs were meant to deal with body armor that make pistol rounds useless.

    • Yellow Devil

      I would agree only to the extent in my personal (anecdotal) experience, I have actually seen FN 5.7×28mm on the shelves.

      • Patriot Gunner

        And I would agree with NATO in saying that the 5.7x28mm round is superior than the 4.6x30mm. Ze Germans were quite displeased.

  • hami

    Excuse me while i go join the LAPD

  • FrenchKiss

    Great. Now they will fire more rounds and still miss.

    • At least the bullets are very very small.

  • Alex Nicolin

    Black plastic body: check
    Pistol grip: check
    Folding front grip: check
    Telescoping stock: check
    Muzzle brake: check
    Tactical rails: check
    Magazine holding more than 10 rounds: check

    Let’s face it people, by Californian standards this rifle is so evil if would probably start a mass shooting by itself if left unattended on the table at the doughnut den.

    • Grindstone50k

      But does it have a shoulder thing and does it go up?

      • Ethan

        I know this is old, but I see it in my mind every time someone mentions that interview. lol..

    • Jack Morris

      and if any civilian of California were to possess this; they would be spending a lot of time behind bars. California isn’t America. Not even close.

      • Cops carry subguns in Europe, right. Can we officially make California part of Europe.

        • LOL—welcome to it 🙂

        • Seerightthere!

          Too late, it’s already part of Mexico.

        • billyoblivion

          I keep trying to get a grass roots movement started to trade SF to China for Hong Kong.

      • mike

        California and other places like it are windows to the future. What’s going on in there is what the entire country is eventually going to turn into.

        • billyoblivion

          People have been saying that for years, but except in the places that Californian’s infest (Colorado, Oregon, Washington) it’s not working out that way.

          Hell, Illinois has shall issue CCW. Yeah, some other frult loop nothing states like Maryland and Connecticut (and Colorado) have enacted some fruitloop laws, but at least here in CO we violated some politicians over it, and we might get some of those laws thrown out.

          No, California is pretty much going it’s own way now, and is becoming the example that the rest of the country uses about why NOT to do stuff.

      • Ed Gruberman

        For “undocumented immigrants” only

    • mike


    • Wetcoaster

      I think you mean flash hider, right?

    • Ed Gruberman

      4.6 mm “Cop Killer” bullets: check

  • iowaclass

    Great. Mall ninjas blazing away with sub-guns from their motocycles. What could possibly go wrong?

    • Seburo

      The Mall ninjas have moved on to .300 BLK as their caliber of choice. It’s used by SMU’s and US Socom according to them.

    • Nothing with the amount of training they’ll get before being allowed to carry them. They’ll have also have to qualify at a higher standard to carry select fire weapons. Of course we don’t know for certain they will adopt select fire or semi-auto.

      • totenglocke

        Phil, the “higher standard” for a cop to carry a pistol is less than what is required for even the most lenient CCW training. Stop with the “highly trained cop” bullshit, because we all know it’s not true.

        • I said higher standard to carry ARs and select fire guns like this one. You’re putting words in my mouth I said nothing about pistols..

          • totenglocke

            So you admit that the average cop is less qualified to carry a pistol than a CCW holder? In which case, do you oppose the Federal law that allows police (and retired police) to carry a gun in virtually every part of the country without a permit?

          • In short no I don’t think they are less qualified. I carry mine everyday under that federal law so no I’m not against it.

    • KestrelBike

      Motorcycle cops are not mall ninjas for one thing, and they have just as much need for firepower as their patrol car counterparts who get m4s. I’ve heard of CA motorcycle cops with HK G36C’s; anything longer is difficult to secure to a bike. You could say they should just get mp5s, but mp7s probably cost just as much with better ballistics. It sounds like the right tool for their job.

      • Chase Buchanan

        I have seen, with my own eyes, a California motorcycle cop with a fully automatic Mark 18 in a motorcycle-mounted holster. Yes, I saw the third pin, it was full-auto.

  • Don Ward

    Question? Is this going to be issued to police officers in lieu of a handgun? If so, how will they deal with weapon retention issues, considering that sub-gun is on a sling and the threat of officers being shot with their own weapon?

    • avconsumer2

      “K-9 officer kills 3 fellow officers when leash gets tangled in sling”
      Three Stooges type stuff… but plausible imo.

    • Unknown right now. I can’t see that as a viable option but it’s possible I guess.

      • Don Ward

        Roger. Personally, I don’t mind if these are for “Oh-shoot-we-gotta-get-a-posse-together-to-take-down-North-Hollywood-bankrobbers-NOOOWWW!!!!” and scenarios like that. I’m a bit more concerned if the officers are going to be toting these around everywhere on their “normal” 9-to-5 duties.

        • Yea we aren’t Germany or England where they walk around airports with MP5s. Unless the SHTF.

          As a backup I don’t have a problem with it but as the only weapon carried I can see problems with retention and just being awkward.

          • iksnilol

            I see no problem with security guards (especially at airports) carrying MP5s or other SMGs.

            Seeing those guys in uniforms with the Hecklers has a discouraging effect, similar to civilians openly carrying.

          • I don’t have a problem with it over there. Here if a situation happens where those weapons are needed they aren’t far away.

          • iksnilol

            I don’t understand what you mean with the weapons aren’t far away. Isn’t it better that the guard keeps the weapon on him/herself so that they don’t have to run and get it?

            Please note, I am a “noob” in regards to police/guard tactics. I am much better with guerilla tactics.

          • It would be better but that’s like some police departments that require officers to keep them in the trunk. Seeing those weapons upsets some of the public.

          • iksnilol

            Ah, makes sense + they don’t wear coats or backpacks they can hide it under/in/behind.

          • They are stored so they don’t upset the public–yep seriously.

          • CrankyFool

            I beg to differ. Last time I flew through LAX’s international terminal, I saw SFPD officers carrying a UMP.

            (Amusingly, traveling through Israel’s Ben Guryon airport, it was almost impossible to see any weapons being carried openly by airport security personnel).

          • Yea they tend to hide them well.

          • LAPD you mean? I can’t say about San Francisco but I’ve never seen them in LAX and I’ve been through that airport a good deal.

          • CrankyFool

            Ugh. SF resident, so I tend to have SFPD on the mind. Yes, LAPD (well, I seem to recall LAPD uniforms) in the International terminal. This is back in 2009, mind you.

          • Ok gotcha:-)

        • Mine stayed in the trunk packed into a hard case.

    • I guess they could lock it in a saddlebag with a gun mount.

      • Don Ward

        That might work. In that configuration, the officer would want their personal handgun as well.

  • echelon

    More firepower to control the serfs and slaves in Cali I see.

    Bullet buttons and 10rd limits for you! But let them eat cake! And shoot MP7s!

    • UnrepentantLib

      “If you can’t seal the deal with five, one more isn’t going to help you.” – The blackmarket gun dealer selling Walt the 5 shot Chief’s Special in “Breaking Bad.”

      • echelon

        That blackmarket gun dealer sounds like an idiot…

        • billyoblivion

          Now, I’ve not watched the show, but he’s a *black market gun dealer*, he is not constrained by the normal ethics of a *legal* gun salesman to give honest advice.

          • echelon

            This is true, but his argument is still rubbish. 🙂 I’ve not watched the show either.

            Everything is risk management when it comes to defense options, but assuming you’ll only need 5 shots is a bad plan…

      • Ethan

        ….and proceeded to sell him a belt fed M-60 before the end of the show.

  • Phillip Cooper

    More militarization of police. Wonderful.

    • They may not a get a select fire version. We just don’t know yet. The officer in the photo is from Sunnyvale PD during a manhunt after a mass shooting.

      • Nicholas Chen

        Does H&K even make a semi auto only version?

        • Not as a cataloged item but since they would make them just for the PD there’s no reason they couldn’t. It just depends on how much they want to spend on equipping all the motor officers and K9 units.

          • Nicholas Chen

            So if they can make it for British Security and possibly LAPD, why not make it for civilians?

          • Tassiebush

            Hey Nicholas, I’m just speculating based on something i read in a book on gunsmithing, but my understanding is that semi auto firearms that can easily be converted to full auto fall foul of the ATF but a similar gun that has full auto blocked without reengineering probably wouldn’t have trouble being accepted outside of USA. it might be accepted into police service in USA despite being refused for civilian sales for same reason?

          • Nicholas Chen

            Ahh yes. I totally didn’t think of that. Thanks. Makes sense. I still think a little engineering is not out of the question to make a pistol version for the U.S. civilian market. I think they will sell a LOT more than to one police dept even though LAPD is bigger than most.

          • Tassiebush

            yeah i guess it’d come down to demand and what other commitments they have. i wonder if there is a degree of political pressure on the company in Germany influencing it too. if lithgow arms here in Australia was selling steyr f88 into US civilian market and it hit the media here there would be a shitstorm. H&K may have similar pressures? i hope they make semi version so civilian owners can enjoy them in USA.

          • Tom

            There is also the issue of having to manufacture the items on US soil to get around import restrictions. Not sure how big HKs facilities in the US are?

          • Not very.

          • Phillip Cooper

            The Uzi was reengineered from select fire to semiauto and is commonly available. No reason this can’t be as well.

          • No it was not. The “uzis” that you see as semi automatic firearms function nothing like the SMG’s. They externally resemble an Uzi but they are radically different in function.

          • Phillip Cooper

            You DO realize that you basically just defined “rengineered”, right?
            I am fully aware that the internals of the semiauo Uzi on the civvie market aren’t the same as those of the select-fire (or is it simply fullauto only? I’ve never looked into it) original.
            The fact that they went and designed an entirely new bolt, fire control unit, et al, specifically means that they re-engineered the damn thing!

          • Not importable or exportable (German ordnance of this type now requires an end-user certificate). Check out the article I wrote on H&K versus import regulations.

        • yes, the british security service uses a semi auto version.

          • Nicholas Chen

            Wow thanks. Good to know.

    • Forest C. Adcock

      What makes you think that?

      I mean, other than the MP7 not being “suitable for civilian use” and all…

  • Wow somebody doesn’t like the police!

    • iksnilol

      Hard to like 5-0 when many are unprofessional. Classic cases are the situations where they light up somebody firing over 100 rounds on one target.

      Not all cops are bad but there are a deal giving a bad rep.

      • There are a small minority that give the rest of us a bad name no doubt about it. It’s that way in any profession.

        • iksnilol

          Any profession, religion, nationality or whatever else you can come up with has people like that. Though I do believe in personal responsibilites and won’t try to blame all for the actions of one. I have enough problems with that because I am muslim. People expect me to justify/defend myself/be responsible when a muslim terrorist does something. I am sure police know that feeling too.

          • The failings of human nature. You shouldn’t have to defend nor explain something you probably don’t understand yourself.
            It’s unfortunate people tend to lump everyone into the same group.

          • They do for sure.

          • Tassiebush

            I think most gun owners find themselves in that position too when a mass shooting occurs.

          • iksnilol

            Oh yeah, don’t even mention it. I can already remember the newspaper articles here in Norway after that Utøya incident. “How many bullets is enough!?” in regards to the restriction in Norway on keeping more than 10k+5k (10k whatever you want + 5k .22 LR) rounds of ammo at home without notifying fire department. The writer of the article thought it was madness to have that much ammo… conveniently ignoring that a competition shooter can go through thousands of rounds a month.

            Luckily there is some common sense in Norway in regards to weapons but not too much considering we are divided (Fudds vs. normal people).

          • Tassiebush

            Sounds like when we had the Port Arthur massacre. It’s terrible being demonized when you just want to mourn.

        • DaveP.

          “:A small minority”… and yet the MAJORITY tolerates, excuses, and defends that minority. “Thin blue line”, and all.

        • Phillip Cooper

          Really? I wasn’t aware that there was this issue with Information Technology professionals. How about nurses? Teachers?
          Not buying that “it’s that way in any profession”.

          • CommonSense23

            Are you serious? You realize that there are between 100,000 to 400,000 accidental medical deaths a year right. Nurses and Doctors have a lot of a bad apples. Look at anytime they tie teachers grades to standardized testing. Anytime they actually study the data they find a large amount of teachers cheating.

          • Phillip Cooper

            Read and comprehend: The statement was made that “a small minority of bad apples makes them ALL look bad”
            Find me someone that thinks all teachers are bad, or that all medical professionals are bad. While yes, there’s one or two crackpots that will think that, this isn’t a predominant opinion.

            You have to read the ENTIRE statement, and then take it in context, to get my point.

            Reading comprehension is hard…

          • billyoblivion

            Teachers do.

          • Phillip Cooper

            Are you channeling Christopher Walken?

      • junyo

        They fired over one hundred rounds into one vehicle, they rammed and fired on a second vehicle.

        Apparently stating something that actually happened proof of “cop hating” now.

        • iksnilol

          Like I said, I don’t hate cops but don’t like them either – they are people just like everyone else. I find it highly irritating when people don’t know the purpose of the police (to catch people who break the law, not save your life) and then use that as foundation to deny people protection.

      • Gwolf

        I think the majority of police are professional and generally just regular guys. We only see the dummies on YouTube and that makes a false perception. Just like only watching the evening news for information could make you think there is a molester behind every tree. Good news is boring news and doesn’t sell as well.

        I’ve never had a bad police interaction, but I don’t do things that make the police want to interact with me much beyond a friendly wave as they ride by my house.

        If a person continually finds themselves in situations where they are having bad “encounters” with the police, maybe the police are not the ones with the problem.

        • Thanks and I agree with that last sentence!

        • iksnilol

          I have had bad encounters and good encounters. But it also depends on the standards in the area. When more officers are in demand they will lower standards to get more and vice-versa.

          • Jphn

            Remember he in Europe where the police are civil servants not public servants.

        • junyo

          The difference between police and regular guys is

          a) access to tools/weaponry on someone else’s dime

          b) Darn near blanket immunity from any consequences

          c) The political caste system that lionizes cops as “heroes” and condemns anyone who questions police actions/methods

          Anyone who doesn’t understand how this changes the incentive structure, and thus the behavior, of LEO culture is just willfully ignorant.

          And if you’re constantly having bad interactions with the police, and the police haven’t managed to lock you up/convict you of anything then either the police are harassing you over petty BS or they are lousy at their jobs. Maybe it’s just me, but in a free country, if the police don’t have PC to charge someone with a crime, yet the police are in that person’s face, maybe the police are the ones with the issue.

    • Guest

      You don’t get the reference, do you?

    • Grindstone50k

      Not when they shoot up two hispanic women in a truck that in no way matches the description of the one the black man they were after, without warning and with obvious intent to kill first and arrest later. Not much to like about that at all.

    • valorius

      Police like all professions are judged on their merits, or demerits.

  • M@

    Anybody else notice she’s running a duty belt for a lefty, but holding the MP7 in a righty configuration…

    • Her only weapon I imagine.

    • CommonSense23

      Well she could be left handed but right eye dominant. A lot of people have that problem.

      • DOBIS

        That’s how I am. I shoot handguns left handed and rifles right handed.

  • aweds1

    Outside of very rare instances where a SWAT team would be called in, what is the rationale of providing sub-machine guns to regular patrol officers?

    • After the bank robbery shootout years ago the move was on to equip officers with that type of weapon.

      • iksnilol

        Wouldn’t a short assault rifle be better since IIRC the bank robbers used body armor?

        Personally I would just go with an AK-104 with a folding stock. No way that would work in the US though.

        • No it wouldn’t fly at all. Small high speed rounds that pierce armour would work alright when it’s not practical to carry a larger weapon.

    • In my neck of the woods, PDs are dumping MP5s and other select fire guns because of political pressure and the proliferation of the AR15. Ever wondered why there are so many postie MP5s on sturm and subguns that are on form 5s being brokered and not sold by dealers? PDs are doing that to get different guns.

  • ComeAndTakeIt

    I think the 9mm H&K MP5 K would’ve made more sense to me. I guess the LAPD has money to burn.

    • I imagine they already have plenty of MP5’s. Kinda hard to carry on a bike though.

      • ComeAndTakeIt

        The MP5 K can’t be that much bigger than the MP7.

        • I don’t know I haven’t had a chance to compare them side by side.

          • ComeAndTakeIt

            In any case I’m sure the LAPD has a good reason for going with the MP7. : )

          • Probably so—-

          • totenglocke

            Yeah, that “good reason” is called “taxpayers are paying for it, not the LAPD”.

    • They are the same price as an MP7, and only made by contract now. Unless the LAPD was buying many, many units, HK wouldnt tool up to do it.

      • ComeAndTakeIt

        I didn’t know that, makes sense I guess. I just don’t know what to think about that 4.6mm round.

      • And I doubt they would buy enough to actually be able to adopt them.

  • dannye

    Great, now they can put even more holes in the newspaper delivery vehicles driven by diminutive Mexican women.

  • It used to be—-

  • They are trained to a higher degree in order to be allowed to carry that type of weapon.
    LAPD trains a LOT!

    • Grindstone50k

      Apparently not in target identification or how to not burn down a house with a flashbang.

    • DaveP.

      “LAPD trains a LOT!”
      Google: “LAPD” + “accidental shooting”… 86, 200 responses.

    • Ethan

      The LAPD isn’t the devil guys, so please chill on that. Big organizations have more eyes to get blacked, that’s all.

      But I do have to add an addendum to Phil’s statement: The door-kickers train a lot, SWAT trains a lot, officers who take their firearms proficiency seriously train a lot, but the above list only comprises about 15% of the LAPD. The rest generally shoot their required qual and don’t train seriously beyond the minimum.

  • Sounds like you had a bad encounter with the police to be that judgemental and angry.

    • dannye

      It doesn’t take an encounter with thuggish cops to understand the sorry state of American policing.

    • Grindstone50k

      Cops excusing bad cops is why there are hardly any “good” cops.

      • claymore

        There are between 800,000 and 900,000 law enforcement
        officers with arrest powers in the States at any time depending on who one talks to.

        So lets say they have 6 “contacts” each per day with non-leos like motor vehicle stops, violations of all kinds, investigations, accidents, alarms,
        checking stores all the normal leo jobs.

        We will say six to account for days off, holidays, sick leave
        etc. but in reality it is way more than that with traffic
        enforcement officers 50-100 or more a day but we will go with 6 to
        account for others that work in offices and admin jobs.

        So 6 x 800,000 is 4,800,000 contacts a day. Per week 4,800,000 x
        7 is 19,200,000. Per month 19,200,000 x12 is 230,400,000 and the
        biggie by year 230,400,000 x 12 is 2,764,800,000.

        See it again 2,764,800,000 that is right almost 3 BILLION
        contacts between police and non-police a year and yet you pick
        what 20-30 times a year the results are what you don’t like OUT OF
        3 BILLION so how about the other 2,764,799,970 contacts that went
        right don’t they count for you?

        • Grindstone50k

          I call your made-up number “doing the job they’re paid to do”. If I fvck up at work, I might get fired. If a cop fvcks up at work, people die.

          • claymore

            It’s NOT up “to their fellow cops” as you want it to be so you can continue with your hyperbole. That decision is up to the local prosecution team.

          • Grindstone50k

            What other time do cops wait for a “local prosecution team” before deciding to arrest someone and charge them with a crime they witnessed with their own eyes? Or are cops not supposed to enforce the law and arrest and charge lawbreakers? Call it hyperbole all you want, dismiss the issue of corrupt armed agents of the state in a supposedly “free country’, but the truth of the matter is a few bad apples spoil the bunch. And people die as a result.

          • claymore

            You keep showing hyperbole just to advance your “I hate cops” meme but it’s not working. IF you have evidence bring it to the prosecutor if not you are just blowing hot air and nothing else.

            You also showcase your ignorance of police work. Police work with the prosecutors office to determine charges on EVERY CASE that is how it is done in real life not TV.

            The prosecutors saw ALL the evidence in that one case you keep mentioning and THEY made the determination based on the EVIDENCE not guessing like you continue to do so where does the “corrupt armed agents of the state” come from police didn’t make that decision so where is your scorn for the prosecutors?

            Like I said IF YOU have evidence they missed bring it to their attention.

          • Grindstone50k

            I never once said “I hate cops”. You’re the one being hyperbolic.

            Evidence of what?

            So cops don’t arrest someone where they’re standing after committing a crime the cop witnessed until they have approval from a prosecutor? Talk about ignorant.

            The problem with prosecutors is a whole different matter aside.

            Are you saying that shooting up two hispanic women in a truck that in no way matches the description of the one the black man they were after, without warning and with obvious intent to kill first and arrest later, was completely justified and not assault with deadly weapon and/or attempted murder?

          • claymore

            So you can read minds too?

            after, without warning and with obvious intent to kill first and arrest later

          • Grindstone50k

            Unbelievable. There was absolutely nothing justified about that entire situation and yet here you are, accepting it as though it were.

            -No ID of target
            -No clear threat
            -Two women, not one man
            -Hispanic, not black
            -Wrong truck color
            -Wrong truck make
            -Hundreds of rounds expended
            -No warning or command for surrender given

            And yet here you are, excusing them and their attempt to kill these two women. You are absolutely pathetic and disgusting.

          • claymore

            And here you are repeating the same thing over and over. Like I said if you have more information than the prosecutor had pass it on to them.

            Never excused them of anything show me where I said that……you can’t because you made it up. And just use more hyperbole like you can know what was in their do you know?

          • claymore

            I just figured out what you can do…. go see the prosecutor and tell him you can read the officers involved minds and know what they were thinking at the time of the incident.

          • Grindstone50k

            It’s clear to anyone with half a brain what they were thinking: outright murder. You have nothing to justify their actions and you are a disgusting human for defending their attempt to kill those women. You probably defend the killing of Vicki Weaver too.

          • claymore

            Nice try at twisting my words but still a fail I never defended them I only pointed out the truth… the prosecutor WITH ALL THE FACTS AND EVIDENCE (unlike your specious speculation) made the decision to clear them so live with it.

          • Grindstone50k

            You’re an even bigger fool/tool for believing that the system “worked”.

          • claymore

            For the rest of us it did only cop haters like yourself have to deal with the truth

          • claymore

            Only a person like yourself with half a brain would think police stood there in the middle of the street in front of witnesses and said “hey let’s kill some people today just for the fun of it.”

          • Grindstone50k

            Just keep showing how you have no idea what happened in the whole Dorner incident. You just drop to your knees and accept whatever is fed you by cops.

          • claymore

            And you just hater cops and it shows.

          • claymore

            So why do you think it’s ok for other armed agents of the state to be imperfect and advance that meme but police always have to be perfect?

            your words in case you forgot:

            “Making someone out to be an infallible super hero does not do them
            justice. It is the insecure that need their heroes to be spotless. But a
            spotless person does not appear to be a human person. I say his flaws
            make him better, show us how real he was. Maybe it’s uncomfortable?
            Sure. But hero worship does not do him real justice.”

        • Probably not since it doesn’t fit with the rant.

    • totenglocke

      I used to work as a contractor for a major metro police department and have multiple relatives that are cops and I 100% agree with David_TheMan. Sorry, but what few “good” cops there are are willing to cover for the bad ones and almost all cops these days view anyone who doesn’t work for the government as “the enemy”.

  • CommonSense23

    It amazes me when people complain about police accuracy, then get upset when they are armed with weapons that are much easy to shoot accurately.

  • Cops in Dallas have P90s because an AR15 wont fit in a saddle bag.

  • Forest C. Adcock

    Yay, so now the LAPD can have PDW’s they can’t find ammo for, can’t be sure won’t overpenetrate, and can’t replace in a few years when H&K goes toes up… Wonderful. They should have gone with SIG.

  • Forest C. Adcock

    We don’t hate HK, we hate the people who run (or don’t) HK.

    The MP5 was king for 50 years. The VP9 is amazing. Their unwillingness to skirt German export laws by creating H&K USA and creating civilian-legal versions of their military arms, however, is something that we do hate. And it’s something that makes me sad, knowing that they’ll be gone in 10 years as a result of a decade or more of turning their backs on the world civilian market while their competitors do the opposite. Sig Sauer is actively suing the US government to get even more, better, firearms into the hands of civilians and they aren’t relying on generations old designs in the process.

    H&K is done. I’ll buy my MP5 from Pakistan and my striker-fired 9mm (and 357sig,40,ect) from Sig.

    • CommonSense23

      You do realize HK is one of the few companies that actually stood up for US civilian gun rights a couple of decades right.

      • Forest C. Adcock

        How so? Before this past year they hadn’t sold a civilian-legal version of a military rifle in the US since 86, even when other companies were selling theirs here. They’ll allow MP5’s to be built in Pakistan, but not a citizen-legal version in the US where it wouldn’t have import restrictions? Saying you stand up for a right and actually doing something to back up that stance are two different things.

        • CommonSense23

          They were one of the few companies that was speaking up for the “Modern Sporting Rifle” back when people where talking about banning them in the early 90s. When half the fire arms community was saying they don’t have a hunting or self defense purpose, HK was running advertisements and lobbying to protect these weapons in the US for civilian use, even as they were not planning to sell any type of these weapons to civilians. HK made a huge mistake about not catering to civilians, but they supported them doing some of the worst times for civilian gun rights.

          • BattleshipGrey

            I remember one of those ads, a hunter walking in the woods with a 5 round mag in a G3.
            What kind of mixed picture does that send to the lawmakers though? When you’re willing to publicly declare that the people have rights (when they stand to make money), yet they don’t import or produce in country enough goods to supply the people’s demand to exercise their rights.

          • hod0r

            The HK91 was made primarily for the US civilian market. It’s only after HK went bankrupt thanks to a 1989 US import ban on foreign made semi-automatic rifles that the company stopped caring about the civilian market.

          • BattleshipGrey

            I see, thanks for filling me in. They still could’ve set up shop in the US, but I don’t remember how the overall market was looking like then either.

          • It was made entirely for the US market

        • Grindstone50k

          Hell, they don’t even like airsoft versions of their stuff being made.

  • Seburo

    Not designed to replace sub machine guns and rifles? Then I guess the M1 doesn’t have much of a reason to exist and nor did Nato want to replace 9mm machine guns in the 80’s.

    • Chase Buchanan

      Tony probably meant that they weren’t designed to fill the same role as submachine guns and rifle-caliber carbines.

  • Cheese_McQueen


  • MountainKelly

    They expecting a lot of bike cops to require sub machine guns? Seems redundant. One of my best friends is a parole officer and he carries… A handgun

  • Lance

    Well I knew of LAPD biker cops having MP-5Ks for years seeing some have upgraded.

  • LOL—

  • You realize the officers have nothing to say about the weapons they are issued. Those decisions come from high up the food chain.

  • All of it—-

  • Corrupt thugs—– I’m curious where that opinion comes from.

    • totenglocke

      From observing the criminal behavior of the police, perhaps?

      Though, it’s not fair to call cops “thugs”. Thugs on the street have far more honor and compassion for other human beings than the police do.

  • Well guys I think everyone has had their say about the police anyway not so much about the gun itself.
    Lets drop the evil police topic and stick to what people come to TFB for and that’s the gun.

    • dannye

      What’s there to say about the MP-7? Us worthless plebians who aren’t anointed with a government badge cannot get our hands on one. I can’t comment something I cannot obtain without spending 10 years in federal butt-rape prison.

      • If you have nothing to say about the gun then you have nothing to say.

        • dannye

          Good luck finding more than a handful of people who have actual experience with this gun.

          Don’t post about a government-only machine gun being issued to California cops and expect the 2A community not to comment on the legal and political aspects.

          • Squirreltakular

            Exactly. Thank you.

  • John


    Is is because Special Forces used a couple while hunting Osama bin Laden?

    There’s nothing wrong with having a regular MP5, if a motorcycle cop needed a sub-machine gun at all. They’ve been available for 40 years. LAPD could get them in any configuration known to man, load them with any ammo they wanted, and they’d be just as compact and maneuverable as that MP7. They’re just as visible and intimidating as any other new weapon.

    Most of all, it would share the same ammo as the pistols they carry. Last I heard, the MP7 uses some kind of proprietary round that may or may not work past a certain distance.

    Stupid, pointless, gaudy, novice and worthless expenditure of money that only serves to further scare the populace.

  • BattleshipGrey

    To echo what Phil said, it comes from high up in the food chain. When you get into bigger departments, the chiefs and captains and such are politicians. Politicians are scared of the public, which we all know. I can imagine that if a magic wand were waved and the ’86 registry were abolished, the same politicians would be acquiring AT4’s and Carl Gustav recoiless rifles.

  • Phil Ossiferz Stone

    /copypasted from the SJ Merc because I already said it all and I’m lazy

    We had wooden rifles with real working bolts with a gold bullety-looking thing on the tip in the late 70’s. We used to run around and scream and yell and make explosion sounds with our cheeks, and the cops would laugh and wave. This was in Woodland, CA, not Mayberry.

    When my bike was stolen I ran around the neighborhood in a desperate terror trying to find it. The first squad car (this was in Woodland, still) I saw I ran straight at it, waving my arms and blubbering. I wasn’t scared — why would I be? Police are your friends; they wear armor under their shirt and tie like Iron Man; their uniform is the same dark blue as your Cub Scout uniform. I knew he would stop for me and I knew they would find my bike — and they did.

    When I migrated to the big city in search of work and put myself through DeAnza, the wealthier kids would bring their Airsoft guns (they were still new and expensive) to school at night. Those of us without silver spoons in our mouths would bring rubber knives and try to gank them ninja style. All we had to do was tell the security guys. (Once we got caught on the edge of the parking lot just as all the sprinklers went off, and got soaked to the bone. It was hilarious). I bought a Swedish Mauser at Big 5 in Sunnyvale and walked the three blocks back to my apartment with it over my shoulder, feeling self-conscious as heck but hey, open carry was the law and everybody knew it.

    Now? I’d caution my younger self not to do any of that, or risk immediate Judge-Dredd style execution. And would my fellow Californians care? Would the editorial staff of the SJ Merc, the people who busted the CIA selling pot in Central America, who used to run the best doggone sensible-liberal paper on the West Coast…? Of course not. And my unionized bought-and-paid-for-by-the-Democrats murderer would get just enough administrative leave to keep him out of the public eye for a bit, then go right back out on patrol.

    This is the banality of evil. This is culture change, Saul Alinksy style. The police and the government and the press have been fully complicit in it. And it has been a horror to witness.

  • gunsandrockets

    Because shotguns are no longer tacticool.

  • Wetcoaster

    I’ve seen motorcycle cops with MP5 panniers before, but what’s the actual given justification for going over the issue pistol?

    While cops in patrol cars can have (often semi-only) carbines or shotguns in the trunk, I don’t see the provision as necessary for every cop – or do they plan on procuring these for horseback, foot, and bicycle cops too?

    Also, are these select-fire or semi-only? The argument could be made that the MP7 in semi-only (sitting in the bike’s cargo compartment) serves the same purpose as a .223 patrol carbine for confronting a shooter with a vest or at longer than pistol range.

    It’d also make one heckuva target for thieves.

  • Eric Blair

    “All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”

  • UCSPanther

    Not a bad idea to have on hand, especially if another Norco or North Hollywood style situation comes up…

  • Fruitbat44

    More reach than a handgun, but less bulk than a rifle or shotgun. Not a bad choice.
    However the article about the MP7 being adopted by LAPD does admits to being “rumour” and the evidence is “somebody (anonymous) says somebody else (also anonymous) said this.” So maybe a pinch of the old sodium-chloride is in order.

  • Tassiebush

    Just commenting on the gun rather than the police issues, it looks like a practical stand in for a patrol carbine. the collapsable stock and presumeably flattish trajectory over any distance it’s likely to be used over. I have no idea how controllable one is on full auto but I presume it probably lacks in stopping power for single shots. anyone have some insight into how easy or hard these or guns of similar configuration are to use?

  • echelon

    You win the internet today for me…I love Equilibrium. I still get bleary eyed at the scene where he wakes up and watches the sunrise and tears the tinting off his window…

  • Ethan

    “But I, being poor, have only my dreams. I have spread my dreams under your feet. Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.”

  • JS

    Why not go with the new Sig MPX or CZ Evo? What handguns are they issued? If they carry Glocks seems like a pistol caliber AR SBR that takes Glock mags would make even more sense…

  • mgomez

    so i guess i cant see the choice of the mp7 over say a p90 or other PDW (probably cause im dense)…i guess just rare to see it chosen. someone has to win the bid… besides handling an mp7..i dont have any shooting experience with it, the p90 on full auto i do…

    • Chase Buchanan

      Kiith Soban for the win!

  • dan citizen

    Ridiculous. The expense of the weapon, training, liability, ammunition, does not match the need at hand.

    I would need to see some very strong evidence that this addresses a real need, and that there is not a cheaper, equally viable alternative.

  • Squirreltakular

    I wonder what HK’s response would be if there was a sudden, sweeping boycott of all of their products by the American shooting community as a whole.

  • And that about sums it up Nick—-

  • Yep and that officer shown is from Sunnyvale PD

  • claymore

    Never been in there unlike yourself pulling things out of there.

  • Tassiebush

    I’ve been checking that out. looks pretty interesting!

  • camilles

    Motorcycle cops are usually the first on the scene. And they’re there by themselves. That’s why.

  • Mazryonh

    How much is the MP7’s proprietary ammunition going to cost? Didn’t the NATO study comparing 5.7x28mm and 4.6x30mm ammunition show that 5.7mm ammo could be manufactured off of existing 5.56mm manufacturing lines, while 4.6mm ammo needed more extensive tooling-up? That could mean 4.6mm might have to be imported from foreign H&K factories, or otherwise if demand gets high enough they’ll have to build one Stateside.

    Then again, if the goal is to provide compact select-fire weapons to these LEOs, why go with a weapon that needs proprietary ammo? The Russians have had success with making SMGs (such as the PP-Bizon, or PP-2000) using AP variants of pistol ammo. I don’t see a major reason why this couldn’t be done elsewhere.

  • Ed Gruberman

    delivering the morning news paper…