Rumor: H&K USA Has Been Sold?!?!?!

HK_Logo_-_Smaller

According to a very active user at the HK Pro forums, H&K has been sold …

I heard a little rumor this week at NASGW. Was confirmed by two different people.

HK USA is being sold and will have a new owner.

Bad news:
HK MR762 SD is on hold.
HK G36 civilan version is now off the table, for good!
Everything is on hold (Everything we learned at Shot 2014) but HK USA will be going forward, which is good, the financial news coming out of HK GmBh though means who knows what it will look like in years to come.
Anyone here choose to confirm or deny this, chime in.

UPDATE:
Forgot to mention that I went to a recent regional 3 gun match where I learnt that Jason Koon bought Atlantic Firearms (pretty sure that was it) and has taken most of the HK team with him over there, so the shooting team is for the most part no more!

If I get confirmation that this is true, I will be sure to let you know.

 



Steve Johnson

Founder and Dictator-In-Chief of TFB. A passionate gun owner, a shooting enthusiast and totally tacti-uncool. Favorite first date location: any gun range. Steve can be contacted here.


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  • SandMouse

    Wow! No way! Of course, the American G36 was never going to happen anyway since the German Government forbids firearms manufacturers from producing firearms originally created for the Military market for civilians, in ANY country. Don’t know why they never made a civilian upgraded version though…

    • JumpIf NotZero

      Maybe we should pretend the German gov DIDN’T ok the sale of the semi-auto G36 to civs then?

  • plumber576

    Fingers crossed it’s not Freedom Group.

    • raz-0

      Freedom group is up to their eyeballs in debt, and Cerberus wants to sell them and nobody wants to buy it at the prices they want. I don’t see doubling down on that as an option. I could be wrong, but I think it will go to someone else. Who? No idea.

    • Freedom Group no longer exist. It’s Remington Outdoors now.

      • plumber576

        Thanks for the clarification.

      • Ben Enjerry

        Their IRS quarterly report filing denotes Remington Outdoors, but they are still known as the Freedom Group as well until the Wall Street boys sell the whole mess someday. http://www.freedom-group.com/

  • C.

    I hope they still offer the P30L…

  • Blake

    /me wonders if H&K GmbH sold it off for a song, & if PTR could come up with that kind of cash…

    • Paul Epstein

      Even if they could, I’m having a hard time seeing exactly what that would do for them, other than brand recognition. And even ‘for a song’, that would be a lot of money to pay for brand recognition that isn’t entirely positive, when they already have a decent brand of their own.

      I’d put my money on either a large corporation that’s going to use it to offload cheap .22 copies of H&K weapons, or a new company that has a lot of startup capital but not a lot of presence in the market, and needs a recognizable name in order to get distributors on board.

      • JumpIf NotZero

        Buying HK USA wouldn’t give anyone unlimited rights to use the HK name for 22lr copies. You’d be buying into a partnership with HK gmbh. Which, I think you’d have to be willfully blind to think is going to be a real winner considering the parent company’s attitude towards making money.

        IMO, this is a craigslist ad that says:

        Unemployed former model looking future ex-wive, must be into abusive relationships.

        I think the most likely situation for buying HK USA is to probably sell as much as possible keep enough to turn out the one or two products they make money on. Like the P30 series, maybe work them into reforming, but my initial thought it that no one wants to buy a business with a shitty partnership to just keep running it into the ground.

  • rico

    Probably should have read more of the thread, the part about Jason Koon is inaccurate.

  • Michael R. Zupcak

    You learnt? What does that mean?

    • Gregory Markle

      Does it upset you that Steve, who is not from the US, doesn’t speak good American? “Learnt” is actually acceptable usage in the country where the English language comes from and in other countries where it is the primary language.

      • Michael R. Zupcak

        It upsets the shit out of me. But apparently you are correct. Outside of the US, “learnt” is acceptable. Inside the US, however, it’s mostly associated with uneducated rednecks.

        • Laserbait

          Wow, I’d hate to see what happens to you when someone uses “their” incorrectly. Do you throw a full-on temper tantrum, and bang your head into the walls? I got news for you kid, you’re in for a world of hurt if “learnt” upsets the shit out of you.

          • Michael R. Zupcak

            In a “their, there, they’re” situation I black out and usually don’t wake up until the next day so I don’t really know what happens.

      • Giolli Joker

        More than acceptable usage, it’s proper English, that got somewhat simpler in the US…
        Usually outside US and other few countries (e.g. Philippines) in school you’re taught proper British English.
        BTW, where is Steve from?

        • Gregory Markle

          Steve has commented on the blog that he is not from the US in the past but I’m not sure if he’s ever said where he is from. While I know where he is from, I respect his privacy and let making that information public to him.

          • Giolli Joker

            Sure!
            I was assuming he is from the US, so I was asking if I had missed something…
            Not that it really matters, actually.

  • KestrelBike

    Whoever handled HK USA was a complete idiot, and incapable of running a modern business. Rather, they were like that wealthy trust-fund kid born in the 1950’s that married rich and had all his own private Class III toys in his bonus room, and damn every other gun owner and furthering gun rights. Their marketing sucked, their long guns were slaps in the face, and their appeal to the current generation of gun owners (ie the people splurging their hard-earned cash on the gun market today) is/was abysmal.

    Here’s everything stupid that HK did:
    HK SL8 rifle: Let’s take the G36 that everyone wants and mangle the F out of it, *purposefully* F with the receiver to ensure that stocks, magazines, etc are incompatible with it, oh and then pull it from the market and replace it with…. nothing* Not only do this once (SL8-1 the grey version) but twice (SL8-6 the black version).

    *HK MR556: Put a piston-AR on the market for $3,500, but first produce only a trickle so US buyers can deal with low-supply/high-demand shenanigans. After all, you’re just a small mom & pop company able to produce at a low ra… oh wait you’re Germany’s largest arms manufacturer? Yeah no f’ing excuse.

    HK USC: more BS with the stock/receiver that was unnecessary. There’s a difference between shipping the weapon with a compliant stock and leaving it up to the US civilian buyer to buy a legal stock at a later time, and making it so the receiver will never accept said stocks in the future unless they’re cut up or some ridiculous 2″ block is added to allow for a folding mechanism. Ditto the second chance (between the original Grey USC’s and the later Black versions) squandered. I also understand that this thing was created during the 1994 ban, so I can see the 10rd mags. Thanks for never updating those after 2004. Great product strategy, guys.

    This isn’t an HK Because.Y.S.A.W.H.Y. rant, this is just saying that HK pretty much did everything they could to s*** on US buyers repeatedly for no reason other than pompous country-club mentality (IMO). They’re like Judge Smails from Caddyshack. They’re like that fat guy in austria living on his little farm in Band of Brothers that was suspected of being a commandant, that Liebgott and Webster were sent to investigate. Hell, and I even own an HK USP .45 (my first pistol, a bday present to myself when I turned 21).

    No excuses because they’re Germany and doing stuff is hard. Steyr (austrian, I know), and Sig Sauer both got functional rifles out on the market, and they’re much smaller companies than HK. This is my shocked face that the civilian G36 is reportedly cancelled, because I don’t trust a damn thing coming from those HK jackwads. I wish the Bundeswehr would tell them to go pound sand.

    • Cornelius Carroll

      Preach!

    • Comrdaecole

      With the SL8 and and USC you have to remember that the US versions were made so that they could get passed the US’s imports restrictions. The assault weapon import ban is still in place which makes it illegal to import weapons that have the ability to accept “high-cap” mag, have pistol grips, flash suppressors, etc. so that only “sporting” guns can come in ala the SL8 and USC which meat the US import restrictions. All foreign firearms manufactures/importers have to deal with this in the US. FN, IWI, Arsenal, etc. They bring the weapons in in “sporting configurations and then preform 922r compliant conversions. Now I will agree that HK dropped to ball on not taking the extra step and making the 922r conversion once here in the states, but we also have to take into account Germany’s “weapons of war” policy that forbids German gun companies from making military guns for civilian sale even if it’s not intended for sale in Germany- though I’m not very clear on how the weapons of war regulations plays in because it seems the German government changes their interpretation of it from time to time. For instance the European version of the SL8 could accept standard G36 mags, but otherwise was the same as the US version as to meat the “weapons of war” definition but now the HK243 (civvie G36 in Europe) is good-to-go according to the German government… I tend to think that HK, as the major suppler of weapons for the German government got scrutinized under their weapons of war regulation a little more than others or they were so concerned with breaking Germany’s regs and didn’t want to lose their contracts that they were a little to cautious when it cam to civilian sales.

      • bucherm

        As Kestral mentioned, Sig managed to get civilian versions of their evil black rifles to market here in the States, so the 922r argument doesn’t hold a lot of water. Especially when you consider that the HK416/417s are manufactured in the States in order to meet government contracts anyway.

        Blaming it on import laws in this case is absurd. It isn’t some mom and pop company that can’t set up it’s own plant in the states. It’s freakin’ HK, and a lot of other companies(Sig, FN) pull it off just fine.

        • JumpIf NotZero

          Agreed. If HK wanted to, they would have had a folding stock and proper mags for the USC.

          They did not WANT TO sell lots of extra product and now they’re broke. Amazing coincidence.

        • Comradecole

          SIG manufactured their semi-auto rifles 100% in the states, so completely avoiding the need to worry about 922R, except for the limited edition 550 they did a few years ago which was imported and made 922r compliant. Remember 922r allows imported weapons to be sold in a “non-sporting” configuration with a number of US made parts installed. The SL8 and USC were 100% German made, meaning that to sell them in a “non-sporting” configuration they’d have to add certain number of US made parts to do so. The people who have converted either gun into a G36 on UMP clone know all about that. Now like I said, I truly think HK dropped the ball on that one, especially after 2004 when the AWB expired, before that it simply wasn’t an option. Could they have built guns in the US like SIG and avoid the import restrictions Yes of course and that’s what they started doing in 2009 when their first actual manufacturing plant in the US opened up and it’s what they are doing with the MR556 and MR762.

          • bucherm

            I’m aware that those firearms were made in Germany, hence my “it’s absurd that HK couldn’t build a plant in the US” comment. Especially since they were chasing so many .gov and .mil comments.

            You seem to be acting as if I didn’t already say it. I’m saying that that there’s no leg to stand on w/regards to import models, because they could have always built a plant. They had the money/capitalization to do so.

        • Ian Thorne

          What Sig rifles have been imported as so? Their only tactical rifle, the 556, is made in the US.

          Manufacturing an AR and a completely new rifle are very different beasts and should not be compared. It’s not like building a freaking factory to make a gun that might not sell well is an easy decision.

          • bucherm

            Man, it’s as if you didn’t read my post at all. I even said that they could have built a factory.

            ” It’s not like building a freaking factory to make a gun that might not sell well is an easy decision.”

            And yet, companies like Sig, Beretta, and FN had no problems doing that. You’re acting as if HK is some tiny shop. It isn’t.

            And HK has a factory for the 416/417 series in the states for .gov and .mil contracts, which, again, makes the “hurr they couldn’t build in the States” comment silly.

          • Ian Thorne

            Yes, companies that are confident they will sell tons of guns will open a factory. But HK has never been a high volume seller.

            Last I checked none of those other companies are 300 million Euro’s in debt either. Did you even consider that? And you do know they will effectively be forced out of business in 3 years unless they fix that, right? You know opening a new plant is a huge investment that takes a long time to recoup those costs, right?

            And to say Sig had no problems is a joke. They had tons of F’ing problems with the guns when they were first made here. Sig is a great example of how not to open a factory here.

            Beretta’s plant was similarly a cluster fuck, took a long long time to happen and if you believe the rumors they almost canned the idea before it finished.

            FN only did their factory here in order to get .mil contracts. Not for civilian guns. So using them as en example is not relevant. I highly doubt FN would have opened a US rifle plant for just civilian guns.

            An AR plant is a vastly different animal than most others because the tooling is abundant and easy. Don’t compare the construction of what is basically a 60 year old gun to a plant to make an actually new weapon. They are not comparable.

            Seems like you just don’t think about things deeply enough to look at the entire issue.

          • Yale

            FN’s South Carolina plant makes a ton of bolt action and lever action Winchesters, FWIW.

    • highhammer

      completely agree, and im a hk guy myself.

    • John

      I own a SL-6 and it’s an awesome tack driver with one of the best 20″ barrels around. Let’s just say if HK had released a G36 like you stated, people would be spending thousands to create a “G36 DMR”. HK just can’t win. People just want what they can’t have. And I have a MR556 and I use to own the 10.5″ HK416 upper and those are the best ARs I own and I own close to 20.

      • ColaBox

        You own 20 AR’s?

        • John

          Yeah, Close to 20. Multiple Colts, JP, multiple LMT, Ares Beltfed, HK, BFI Sendra, Adam Arms, Bushy, Seekins, Mega, generic 7.62 AR, AR Five-Seven, generic 458 socom, generic 300 BLK, 18 which is close to 20

  • Zachary marrs

    Dont kid yourself, those guns were never going to see US sands in the first place

  • Miami_JBT

    HK GmBh is broke and on the verge of going out of business again. The only reason why they didn’t last time was that they were bought by the Brits and given that sweet deal of unf##king the SA-80 bullpup rifle.

    • Madeleine Goddard

      Agreed. Since BAE Systems sold the company I am told there has been a lot of covert asset stripping going on and the German parent company is constantly on the brink of financial meltdown. Seems a great shame when they have so much engineering and design expertise.

  • tactical guest

    Not so surprised, their official site changed appearance too much this year.

  • big daddy

    I carried a G3 for a day in Germany when I was stationed there, that was enough. After that I never was interested in anything H&K made. I never handled a more uncomfortable gun in my life. The pistol grip pinched my hand, the part between the thumb and forefinger. So to me H&K was not a company I could care about and it was obvious they did not care about me. They reminded me of Colt, a company out of touch and dependent on government contracts. In the legal world there are so many ways around a law, that’s why you pay those lawyers. Did H&K try to take advantage of those loopholes? It doesn’t look like it. Maybe in the near future whomever bought them will bring out some great guns. I’ll never buy one. I’ll stick with S&W handguns and keep building my own ARs.

  • David Lowrey

    I know the odds of this are low, but I hope they where bought out by someone who is willing to bring the repo stg44 and mp40 to the us. I’m thinking HZA kulmbach GmbH or sports system dittrich. Is just a hope.

    • Mike

      PTR brought an StG-44 semi auto repro in for a few years, pretty pricey though.

    • John Stelling

      The buyer will be the Freedom group….

      Funny though we did hear rumors that Taurus was looking to buy up some US type gun companies….

  • USMC03Vet

    There was an HK USA? I could have sworn there was only a HK LE/MIL ONLY USA.

  • JumpIf NotZero

    Oh wow.

    You have a loyal following of apologists who allow you to beat them over and over but they keep coming back, you demand a price premium for everything you sell, you have people excited and drooling over your products for 30 years but refuse to release them in unfucked ways or even some in entirely fucked ways because an engrained attitude of “civilians are dumb”, invest in every possible way to be difficult in the products and parts you do sell…

    And you now have financial troubles????? Whhaaaa? How!? I don’t get it.

    HK – We Went Broke Right After a The Largest Gun Rush In History

  • Gwolf

    I guess we won’t be seeing the mentioned SP5K pistol they were talking about. Bummer.

  • politicallyincorrectshooter

    Off the top of my head, the only guns they made that I could have been interested in would be basically prohibitively e/pensive, if they were available at all. The P7, the mp 5-10, maybe the ump, or the mp7. As I am not ally interested in automatic weapons, that leaves the p7.

  • Jilu Khan Spandiary

    Omg

  • Mark

    And so ends the sad story of the German gun company that despite record US firearm sales, Hollywood brainwashing males from 1980’s-today to crave their products, government contracts out the ying yang, free advertising with .gov secret squirrels providing photo ops, and insane margins was able to dodge every avalanche of cash that thundered their way.

    Their talent to engineer firearms was only surpassed by their talent at engineering their own destruction. H&K, will their wonders ever cease? Yes.

  • Lane Crawley

    HK has made excellent rifles and pistols for a very long time. Where they went wrong is the civilian models different from the LE rifles. I would like to buy a 416 legal semi auto rifle. HK has decided to build a different rifle and sell it as the 416 semi auto. I don’t want another rifle I want the semi auto 416. If they make everythinghere in the states there is no import problems. So I won’t buy there products because they try to sell Americans a product that we don’t want. I will not buy HK again!

  • kingghidorah

    If this is true, there aren’t many companies left that ignore and dislike their customers as much as HK does.

  • shootbrownelk

    Hey, I heard on the internet that Betty White had died……must be true, It was on the internet and was confirmed by 2 yahoos. I won’t miss them, I don’t own any HK firearms.

    • flatlandriver

      Betty White “dyes”, not dies. Still kicking.
      I was outbid on an HK SL-7 about a year ago. Closest I’ve been to being an HK owner. HK exiting N America will not just be about product and finances. It will be about long memories as well.

  • bruce Cambell

    It is a little surprising that a company like HK never realized the potential of the US civilian market. Companies like Glock have thrived by having a factory right in Georgia to produce for north america consumers. Had HK understood the value of US based production ten years ago, I would imagine things would be very different for them today. Lets face it, HK has some great designs and engineering, but failed in bringing those designs to a product hungry market at a price and quantity to be truly competitive.