5.7x28mm vs .22 WMR

PMR30_FN57_9825

Military Arms Channel takes a look at the 5.7x28mm round versus your standard .22 WMR bullet. He shoots them out of their respective pistols. A FNH Five Seven and a Kel-Tec PMR-30. He even uses a SBR PS90 for the test.

The test consists of seeing if over the counter ball ammo can defeat a certain level of body armor. The results are surprising. I would not expect .22WMR to have as much of an effect as this test shows.



Nicholas C

Co-Founder of KRISSTALK forums, an owner’s support group and all things KRISS Vector related. Nick found his passion through competitive shooting while living in NY. He participates in USPSA and 3Gun. He loves all things that shoots and flashlights. Really really bright flashlights.

Any questions please email him at nicholas.c@staff.thefirearmblog.com


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  • CrankyFool

    I think your title is off by 2mm.

    • Chumbalones

      LOL, I see what you did there.

  • DW

    So, a .22 magnum carbine=Poor mans P90?

    • jeff

      the ps90 is a .22mag carbine hence the short bbl .
      they are coming out with an updated rmr the pmrc i believe its called that wold also be a 22.mag carbine. remember this is a rifle round after all even though it is used in a pistol (pmr30)

      • Menger40

        PS90 is chambered in 5.7×28, not .22 wmr

      • Slvrwrx

        Kel-Tec is coming out with a CMR-30 (c probably for carbine). It looks pretty nifty. My Gen II PMR-30 has only had 1 failure to extract (on 28gr load) so far, and is much more reliable then the Gen I PMR-30s (keyholing and feeding issues)

        • michel Baikrich

          Sorry I speak only French and Spanish, but with Google translator is not a problem

          Please contact me michel.baikrichABingenieros.com (AB=@)

      • ALL .22’s were originally rifle rounds, “ne c’est pas?”

  • Cornelius Carroll

    I was very surprised and impressed by the performance of the .22 magnum. If it were a reliable round (maybe it is? don’t know, just going by the rimfire stereotype) it seems it would be very suitable for HD.

    • DW

      You can always got a .22mag revolver.

      • RocketScientist

        In addition to the difficulties to getting a straight-walled rimfire round to feed reliably in a semi-auto, the ammunition itself has significant reliability issues compared to center-fire rounds. Specifically, the reliability of the primers. Instead of a separate primer as in center-fire rounds, rimfire ‘primers’ are integral to the case itself. The manufacturing process involves getting the priming compound into the small recess inside the rim (oftentimes using centrifugal force by spinning the round). This is not nearly as reliable a process as pressing in a separate primer into a primer pocket. The result is that occasionally a round will be missing priming compound from some or all of the rim. In these cases a solid hammer/firing pin strike will not cause the round to fire. This can be fixed sometimes by rotating the round so the hammer falls on a different portion of the rim that hopefully has primer in it, though this is not always successful. So while a revolver would eliminate the difficult of a feeding a round in a semi-auto, there is still the chance of pulling the trigger and just hearing a click. Sure, another (hopefully good) round is just another trigger pull away, but that’s still not something I’d want to deal with in a self-defense situation.

        • Fred Johnson

          Minus the feeding issues, in manually cycled arms I’ve have yet to experience a quality made .22 WMR fail to fire compared to regular box of bullets .22LR.

          So, if I were to carry an eight round revolver for SD with good ammo, I’d be pretty confident the round would light off.

          When I get old and deaf, that might be exactly what I do. Not yet, though. Not yet. ๐Ÿ˜€

          • billyoblivion

            I’ve got a .22wmr revolver–it’s the Ruger Single Six with the 22wmr cylinder (it’s a single action, so it’s not really for self defense).

            One problem with it is that there is a considerable amount of unburned powder.

            The other is that .22mwr is hard to find right now. REALLY hard to find.

            Oh, I lied. Ammoman has some. Couldn’t find any 2 months ago.

        • dan citizen

          Source?

          In decades of shooting I have experienced some 22 lr failure to fire in factory ammo, and absolutely zero in 22 WMR.

          Of course rimfire reloads are a different story and I have seen plenty of ignition failures there.

          • Beaumont

            Um, sorry, the phrase “rimfire reloads” jumped out at me. Could you expand on that?

          • dan citizen

            I reload rimfire.

            Primarily 22 lr and 22 WMR. Because of the increased cost and limited availability of rimfire ammo, it is currently worth reloading, which costs me about a penny per round and I can make around 5-7 a minute.

            I have patented a case reforming system, which should hit the market early next year, and I will be putting out a book on the process at the same time. Because I am not a jerk I will be also providing the info, blueprints, and plans free for personal use.

            Historically rimfire has been reloaded, including repriming and kits used to be available commercially in the 1800s, it was markedly easier on the larger rimfire cases.

            It is a fun process and it is fairly easy to get results on par with modern commercial ammo. Though due to the small size of the components it is a little fiddly.

          • Fred Johnson

            I’ll be waiting to see that. Be sure to see if TFB will post it up for you.

          • DiverEngrSL17K

            Dan, this is terrific news — and thanks very much for your generosity and open-mindedness in sharing your hard-won knowledge. Although I don’t reload as I used to, I have several friends who do, and who would find your information extremely useful. I’m looking forward to the release of your book. Please keep us informed as the time draws nearer.

          • dan citizen

            I am eager myself.

          • abowden

            A great thing your doing ๐Ÿ˜€ (excuse me while I start collecting .22 brass) Especially for people who can’t get ammo.

          • Dave

            Apparently at least a few people load rimfire. We have made dies & blank crimp dies for 22 LR for about 15 years

          • dan citizen

            It’s an old practice for sure, I learned it maybe 40 years ago. I’m surprised it’s not more popular, I know black powder match shooters do it.

            I’m currently trying to duplicate aquilla’s 60 grain SSS ammo.

          • Slvrwrx

            Subsonic .22wmr please! ๐Ÿ™‚

          • Harold

            Since you are not a jerk and are giving stuff away can I have some (or all) of your money also? I’m a jerk capitalist.

          • dan citizen

            Absolutely! Since I am at a negative balance, this would work out fine for me.

            I have written a few unimportant firearms related books in the past and helped bring a few unimpressive products to market, and I have no problem profiting.

            But in the midst of an ammo shortage I don’t want to be a “profiteer”

            I will make decent money off of book sales, making the same info available online will probably not effect sales in any meaningful way.

            Likewise I will make some money off of selling examples of the reloading tool I make, it is of a simple design and I see nothing wrong with folks who want to build their own doing so, So I’ll help them.

            The patent is to keep Cabellas and the like from taking my work and having the Chinese mass produce it.

    • John

      I wasn’t because I’ve known for years that 5.7×28 is just a centerfire .22 mag with pistol powder.

      • Harold

        Well bully for you.

  • RonCatdaddy

    Oh yea……WHERE the heck did he find 22 mag ammo?? This country is DROWNING in the criminality that is the so-called ‘shortage’ of 22 rimfire ammo for TWENTY months now!! Congress wants to investigate something that actually MATTERS at the grassroot level, investigate that!!

    • ColaBox

      .22 magnum is pretty plentiful now actually, my last visit to Bass Pro had a shelf of about 18 boxes of CCI. Im kicking myself for passing on the NAA Mini Master now though.

      • RonCatdaddy

        I hear reports of 22 mag being on shelves more & more
        now………but at increased retail prices. I have not seen any in
        Arkansas or Texas for twenty months. Do you recall the prices? And what
        part of the country are you in?? Seen any 22 LR on the shelves? Thanks!

    • Nicholas Chen

      I get 22 WMR regularly at my work. .22WMR MaxiMag HP CCI, Hornady Critical Defense V-Max 45gr. and Winchester PDX1 as well as the silver box (I think they are super x not 100% sure)

      • RonCatdaddy

        I hear reports of 22 mag being on shelves more & more now………but at increased retail prices. I have not seen any in Arkansas or Texas for twenty months. Do you recall the prices? And what part of the country are you in?? Thanks!

      • Military Arms Channel

        This is what our .22 WMR shelf looks like currently.

        • Slvrwrx

          My local shop has 4 boxes and they will only sell them if you’re using their range ๐Ÿ™ I got lucky and picked up 10 boxes from WM the other day.

    • MR

      Keep congress out of it, they’ll just ____ it up worse.

  • dan citizen

    AP pistol ammo is verboten in the US. And why not compare apples to apples? Rather than only one loading in 22 WMR.

    I have played with AP 22 WMR and it was very impressive. Threat level IIa armor did not stop it.

    • Justin Low

      He comments that he doesn’t have access to a .22wmr rifle at the time of filming.

      • Nicks87

        Doesnt it make you wonder though? He can find a PMR 30 but not an 22 wmr rifle? Many of the rifles chambered in .22 mag are cheap and fairly common (you can buy one for about the same price as the ballistic gel torso he had in the video). Makes me think he had an agenda with this video.

        • Sulaco

          Does he not work in a gun shop?

          • Military Arms Channel

            Do you assume every gun shop has every gun made for sale?

        • Fred Johnson

          For an apples to apples comparison of a .22 WMR “rifle” versus a SBR
          PS90, he’d have to get an SBR .22 WMR gun. That indeed might be just
          enough pain in the ass to not bother with.

          SBR PS90 = worth the PITA

          SBR .22 WMR bolt gun or semi-auto = not worth the PITA

          IMO, anyway.

          • Nicks87

            That is true and I understand that he said it’s not a scientific experiment but… It just left me wondering as to the point of the video.

          • Military Arms Channel

            It’s called “fun”, at least for most of the viewers of the video who understood it to be an entertaining demonstration of fairly common calibers and their capabilities against soft armor and their performance in ballistics gel. The point is to perhaps see something you might not have the ability to do on your own and to address comments made elsewhere on the internet about the similarities or dissimilarities between the two calibers.

          • Zachary marrs

            He could have used a 16″ ps90, he works in a gun shop.

            Or he could’ve gotten one of those t/c pistols

          • Fred Johnson

            If one was on hand, that would have been great! ๐Ÿ™‚

          • Zachary marrs

            Exactly, it would’ve given a more fair comparison, of course the ps90 would go through, but most people wanted to see how the .22 mag stood next to the 5.7

          • Military Arms Channel

            You’re right. Given what I posted above as to what made filming the video possible, not having immediate access to a SBR .22 WMR is understandable. Even if I had 12 months to plan this video, the likelihood of me SBR’ing a .22 WMR is next to zero. If I did have access to a 16″+ length barrel .22 WMR that night and used it in the video, the same detractors would have cried “it’s not fair because the .22 WMR had 8″+ more barrel than the PS90”.

        • Military Arms Channel

          The PMR 30 came into the gun shop on trade and one of the employees there bought it and said I could use it for a video that night before taking it home. I already own the FiveseveN and PS90. Having access to the PMR-30 for the night prompted the video. At that time we had one flavor of .22 WMR available in the shop.

          Not everything is a conspiracy. ๐Ÿ™‚

          • LetsTryLibertyAgain

            I didn’t think your video was a conspiracy to make the 5.7 look better. In fact, I thought it was much more scientific than most of what passes for medical research. You were honest about the equipment and ammo you used and showed the results.

            I’d bet there is much better performing ammo in the PMR-30. I actually have 24 different boxes of .22 MWR ammo on my reloading shelf that I bought to make an ammo comparison test in my PMR-30. I probably spent more on the ammo than I did the PMR-30!

            For .22 class firearms, I wouldn’t want expansion for self defense. I’d want a few inches of penetration and tumblilng, as shown in your 16″ gelatin test with the PMR-30. Short penetration followed by tumbling will get the most out of the limited energy and small diameter.

            Kel-Tec will be selling the CMR-30 very soon (really this time, not like the previous teasers). It’s their 16″ barrel ultralight collapsible stock rifle version of the PMR-30. .22 WMR really shines in a rifle barrel, much like the dramatic difference between your FN 5.7 pistol and SBR in the video. I think the CMR-30 will be the poor man’s PS-90 or MP7.

    • Slvrwrx

      The 5.7 rounds are optimized for short barrels. They were designed around the 10.3 and 4.75″ barrel, and the 16″ barrel afterwards. Most all .22WMR loads need a full 18″ to achieve their stated velocity. There are short barrel .22WMR loads, but they are more so designed to allow the bullets to expand at the slower velocities. With that being said, .22WMR can easily penetrate the 12″+ in bare gel from pistols. I would carry a PMR-30, if I could trust rimfire 100%

      • dan citizen

        If I had a PMR 30 I would consider carrying it. I’m not a super fan of striker fired pistols for carry, but 30 rounds is 30 rounds.

        In my experience 22 mag has been as reliable as any other round. I can’t actually recall ever having a misfire.

  • Lance

    Best advice ditch both of these kiddy calibers. Stay with 9mm, .40, .45!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Gyufygy

      You hear that swooshing sound? That was the point of the video flying over your head.

      Shaddup Drax…

    • iksnilol

      I stick to .68 caliber, .30 or .45 is way too small IMO.

      • Cal S.

        Please, get on my level. I never shoot anything smaller than a .700 Nitro Express. Anything else is just too small, like in the ‘varmit’ category…

        • billyoblivion

          Yeah, I wanna see that feed in a pistol.

          • dan citizen

            HA! “Feed in a pistol”

            Real men load one round at a time. Manly men only shoot any gun once, then make a NEW gun.

          • Cal S.

            Magnus Research is working on it, I hear.

            I think they’re working on an AR upper for it too…

      • DW

        Hello fellow paintballer ๐Ÿ˜€

        /why didn’t the rest of you get the joke?

        • iksnilol

          Paint…ball? Tovarisch, I was referring to 12 gauge slugs.

          Sorry to let you down, though paintball does look fun.

          • DW

            Well, I guess 12ga slug qualifies as paintball, such amazing red bloom on target…

          • iksnilol

            You also get blue and yellow if you use rubber rounds.

    • Lance? Do you volunteer to being shot with a “kiddy” caliber to prove you’re such a manly man?

      Best advice: Use what works best for you, instead of preaching bullshit. I’m more scared of the man who can accurately shoot a Five-seveN or a PMR-30 (or even a .22LR pistol, lookin at you 22plinkster) because he’s good with it, than the man with less skill and experience using a .45 1911 just because it’s a .45.

      • Pete in Alaska

        Please, guys!
        No matter how short sighted or ill-informed a person may be, (such as using terms like “kiddy” caliber) causing them to make statements that show their ignorance and lack of understanding of the subject at hand. Don’t lower yourself to their level, you only encourage them to spout off and waste space. Its not that I don’t agree with your reply’s, its just I don’t think he’s worth your time to respond.

  • Vhyrus

    Seems like a ps90 is actually a decent rifle for limited ranges.

  • Marty Ewer

    I am a big fan of the PS90–once you’ve SBR’d it.

  • John

    So if the 5.7×28 round can penetrate body armor, how come it hasn’t received the same treatment as the 7N6 5.45×39 round that has recently been banned because a small number of pistols can use it?

    • John

      Or for that matter, any of the “pistols” chambered in rifle calibers ( .223, 7.62×39, ext)?

      • DW

        Do you consider AR15 or Krinks “pistols”?

        • dan citizen

          I don’t, but the law does.

        • MR

          As much as a Deagel or X-frame monstrosity.

    • The law is based solely on bullet construction, not performance. The anti-gunners tried to have it based upon performance so they could ban all high-velocity cartridges.

      • 18 U.S.C. ยง 921(a)(17)(B)
        The term โ€œarmor piercing ammunitionโ€ meansโ€”

        (i)
        a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

        (ii)
        a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.

    • dan citizen

      the purpose built AP stuff is LEO only. That is why it’s frustrating that the FN 5.7 fanboys always cite the penetrative performance of an illegal round, comparing it to off the shelf 22 WMR.

      Back in the day you could buy this 22 LR and 22 WMR AP fodder that was great. It had a tungsten carbide or steel penetrator that I strongly suspect was a needle bearing. They would zip right through soft armor.

      I have seen them recreated by widening/deepening of a rimfire hollow point and insertion of a surplus needle bearing. Performance was impressive.

      Wow, I really drift off topic….

  • Marty Ewer

    If Kel Tec hired a designer, they’d be unstoppable. They have great, innovative ideas. And their customer service is top-notch in my book. But the aesthetics are always seriously lacking.

    • billyoblivion

      It’s not their aesthetics, after all Glock, Springfield (xd) and Smith and Wesson (M&P) sell by the truckload.

      It’s that most of their products are more suitable for plinking than serious uses.

      I have one acquaintence that go fed up with their foldy .223 that she cut it up with a bandsaw.

      Got to admire a woman who has her own bandsaw, even if she does outweigh you by 50 pounds.

    • Beaumont

      Designers they have. What they need is more manufacturing capacity.

    • Military Arms Channel

      I would say they would benefit more from a good QA/QC manager.

      • itsmefool

        Exactly.

    • Pete in Alaska

      I think that KT’s issue is and always has been the there a firearms manufacture SECOND and a Tool and Die producer first.
      The firearms business was sort of a hobby to them and never seemed to be taken seriously until the last few years. Corporate Culture seems to be a hard thing for them to overcome.

      • LetsTryLibertyAgain

        Do you work behind the counter in a gun shop? Because that rumor about Kel-Tec being a tool & die shop or a NASA contractor seems to be passed along largely by gun shop clerks. It’s not true. Kel-Tec is owned and operated by George Kellgren, formerly involved with Intratec and Grendel. He has decades of experience as a firearms design engineer. The company name, Kel-Tec CNC is an acknowledgement of their commitment to utilizing modern CNC manufacturing to lower prices and increase quality, to maximize value to the customers.

        Try calling Kel-Tec and asking them to quote on your tool & die work, and let us know what they say. ๐Ÿ™‚

        The big complaint about Kel-Tec in threads like these is that they don’t have any manufacturing capacity. I believe Kel-Tec is now the third largest firearms manufacturer in the country based on number of firearms manufactured, and they continue to grow at a rapid rate. They never manage to grow as fast as their sales, which is why the consumer perspective is: “I want one. I can’t get one. They don’t manufacture enough of them.”

  • Wetcoaster

    It’s too bad he didn’t have something in .22 WMR with a longer barrel as a point of comparison to the P90. Maybe a bolt gun with a 16″ barrel. I suspect that might have given it the additional push to make it all the way through the Level IIA vest.

  • DiverEngrSL17K

    Like the .22LR, the .22WMR tends to be regarded as a “little” round and therefore grossly under-rated. In reality, this round has good penetration capabilities and can do a lot of damage to a soft target after going through protective cover.

  • Pete in Alaska

    @Nicholas C,
    Was impressed with your test procedures and understand the limitations you sighted because of test materials used.
    I have both these platforms, and like them.
    I was wondering you might think of the .17 HMR? might it be found to be some place in the middle between the 5.7 an 22mag? Its a wonderful varmit round and a number of platforms are chambered in it. I’d be interested in your thoughts.
    Very informative vidio, Pete sends …

    • Military Arms Channel

      The .22 WMR impressed me. The only issue I’ve found that might be concerning for those considering it as a defensive arm in a semi-auto like the PMR-30 is that care must be taken in loading the magazine. Since the .22 WMR uses a rimmed case, if you get the rim of the top round behind the rim of the cartridge below it, a malfunction is guaranteed. Kel-Tec has made it so that doing this isn’t easy by forcing you to push the rounds from front to back into the magazine vs. pushing them straight down like you would on a more traditional double stack magazine. The mag looks like it will allow you to simply push rounds straight down into the mag, but it’s not possible.

      • Pete in Alaska

        @MAC,
        Whats your impression of the .17HMR?
        As its a necked down .22Mag, is very accurate, high velocity, and a rim fire that has velocities nearing the 5.7 would it not be logical to presume that within a 50 to 75 meter perhaps even 100 meter engagement range that it might be as or more, effective as a 5.7×28? Certainly less expensive and far easer to acquire munitions.
        I’m just curious as the apparent test results of the .22 mag seem to have been so much better than expected by many here. I don’t understand the surprise as the .22mag has been around for a long time. Logic would lead one to think that the .17 HMR would them be an effective “between” round.
        As far as the PMR30 is concerned I’ve only had one mechanical issue with it and that was a damaged feed lip on a mag that caused a misfire. I haven’t had the issue you describe but will presume that its possible if your not paying attention or trying to force rounds in.

        • Military Arms Channel

          I have no real experience with the .17 HMR. Rimfire really isn’t of interest to me, at least it hasn’t been to this point, which is why I’ve not spent much time using it or testing it. Although, now that I’ve seen the performance of .22 WMR my interest in the rimfire calibers has been somewhat piqued.

  • Philthegardner

    I like the idea of using the PMR as a defensive pistol, but I think the comparison would have been even more interesting if Tim had included a Rock Island 1911 in 22 TCM. Of course the TCM is only available with HP’s and no FMJ’s but I think the velocity figures would make it a more plausible contender – plus the fact that 5.7 and 22TCM cost the same.

  • J S

    Take a .22TCM cartridge, use 22 hornet bullet. End of discussion.

    • Slvrwrx

      That’s what the .22TCM does. those 40gr JSP’s it uses came from .22 Hornet. The downside to the .22TCM is you need really short bullets to allow feeding, and to allow case capacity to remain where it was for optimum velocity.

  • michel Baikrich

    Very interresting demonstration between 5.7 & 22 Mag.

    To this end, I will perform comparative tests with my new ammunition caliber 5.6 BMP (Baikrich Parabellum) to replace the venerable 9mm Luger

    • Slvrwrx

      I saw a page in Spanish mentioning this round, but nothing to really detail it. Looks like a necked down 9mm that accepts .224″ caliber bullets? Do you have a blog/article on the cartridge? Would love to read it

  • Secundius

    probably more like .112mm, actually.

  • Zebra Dun

    I found the .22 magnum more cost for less effects.
    I can do better with lower costing .22 lr if I just get closer to the target, if I could find either .22 lr or .22 magnum that is.
    I have a Winchester 9422M in lever action.

  • Douglas Ervin

    I really enjoy your presentations-very professional and knowledgeable. I have a NAA .22WMR but for defense, I find the recoil on such a small revolver unmanageable for getting back on target. I recently purchased a SIG P380 and follow up shots are easy.

  • Slvrwrx

    I’m still interested in seeing a picture of the panel plate to know it’s IIA and not II. II is stronger than IIA, and my results show AE TMJ easily penetrating :

    http://youtu.be/HW6aI1IRxvE

    Didn’t have FMJ .22 mag, but this 40gr JHP only went 6 layers into the same vest:

    http://youtu.be/H97FrLmiLeA

    The 30gr load went 4 more layers, but still was stopped:

    http://youtu.be/epf5D7OPJjA

  • Ben

    The SS198LF is not rated as armor piercing (IIA soft armor is the cheapest and lowest rated armor on the market, the ATF requires penetration of IIIA armor for an AP rating). The SS198LF is the lead free sporting round marketed for indoor ranges. It uses the same bullet as the lead free duty round (SS195LF), but is loaded to a lower velocity. While armor isn’t cheap, the use of a single piece for every round does mar your test results as the integrity of the armor degrades with each shot.

    • Slvrwrx

      Ben incorrect. The ATF/Federal Definition of Armor Piercing is all based on construction, not what a bullet can or cannot penetrate. SS198LF is the fastest 5.7 round, at around 2100 fps from the FSN. It is FASTER than SS195LF, and was designed to for Law Enforcement use when SS190 cannot be used.

  • DiverEngrSL17K

    I like the fact that MAC has always tried to keep an open mind with regard to firearms and ammunition performance, especially given the wide range of factors that could possibly affect test results one way or the other. They have also consistently aimed for practical, real-world results with the means at their disposal.

    The bottom line in this particular test that seems to surprise so many readers, and which will undoubtedly continue to surprise innumerably more firearms enthusiasts for years to come, is the “surprisingly” good performance of the .22 WMR round ; the fact that this cartridge, like its smaller .22LR brethren, continues to be greatly under-estimated and therefore easily overlooked for a variety of uses simply proves the point.

    I am personally a big supporter of high-powered cartridges such as the 7.62mm x39, 7.62mm x54R, 5.45mm x 39, 5.56mm x 45, 7.62mm x 51 NATO, 7.62mm x 63 ( .30-06 ), 30-30 Winchester, 9mm x 19 Parabellum, 7.62mm x25 Tokarev, .40 S & W, .45ACP, .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum and so on, but the “little” .22 WMR and .22LR are definitely NOT to be scorned nor passed over as “meh”. They are both extremely useful and versatile cartridges in their numerous iterations and, as so many aficionados have pointed out on the basis of hard-won experience, will do damage out of all proportion to what one might imagine possible.

    Sure, a 40-grain, CPHP .22WMR or 40-grain CPHP .22LR CCI Velocitor is not directly comparable to, say, a steel-cored, copper-coated 7.62mm x 54R FMJ, but that is missing the point. The former are still entirely capable of killing or incapacitating an individual without much fanfare, as knowledgeable contributors such as Phil White, Dan Citizen, Hebizuka Jinkou, Slvrwrx, RonCatdaddy, Pete In Alaska, and so many others in the know have clearly stated over the course of years — and their assessments are based on empirical evidence combined with real-world experience, not mere opinions and theoretical calculations.

  • Robert Kalani Foxworthy

    a chronograph and a 22 hornet guns and ammo would be a with selections of diffrent bullet weights for each ammunition type. people would see 5.7x28mm as being inbetween the two rounds same barrels lengths.

  • maodeedee

    Comparisons are going to be both misleading and confusing when you start mixing up bullet weights and barrel lengths.

    A 22 magnum PISTOL with a 4 inch barrel is not much more powerful than a 22 long rifle out of a rifle (40 grain bullet 1200 fps) but it’s significantly more powerful than a 22 LR chambered 4 inch barreled PISTOL. (same bullet 800-900 fps)

    The 5.7×28 out of a PISTOL will do even better but it’s not going to develop as much velocity as out of a 16 inch carbine barrel. But a 22 magnum will do a lot better out of a 22 inch RIFLE barrel than it will out of a 4 inch PISTOL barrel or even a shorter 16 carbine barrel.

    When “Almost the same as” becomes, “Just the same as”, there’s always going to be some degree of false equivalency. The fact is that the 5.7×28 centerfire has greater case capacity than the 22 magnum rimfire. When loaded to the same pressures and launching the same weight projectiles out of the same length barrels only then can you make any valid comparisons, and in any case, the cartridge with the largest case capacity is always going to come out ahead.

    That would give a 22 TCM chambered pistol a ballistic advantage over the FN 5,7 pistol because the 22 TCM has a larger case capacity. And as far as the keltec PMR-30, the fact that it can duplicate 22 long rifle RIFLE ballistics out a PISTOL with a 30 round magazine capacity makes it a formidable weapon considering how deadly the 22 Long Rifle can be when fired out of a rifle..

  • John Double

    I just wish Germany didn’t F*ck the adoption of x28 by the US military, as we would now have cheaper ammo and more guns.