Liberator 7.62×39 Carbine with Bi-Directional Trigger

liberator

For those who like to shoot a lot of steel-cased 7.62×39, and do so in a hurry, you might want to check out the Liberator carbine from Liberty Gun Works. The rifle uses a proprietary bolt that Liberty Gun Works states will more reliably runs steel case ammunition. Additionally, the gun uses a patented Bi-Directional trigger system that allows the shooter to shoot a lot of rounds quickly.

According to a TFB reader (thanks for the tip – you know who you are,) the trigger fires one round when it is pressed, and then another round when it is released. The company representative advised our reader that private lawyers carefully examined ATF rules and determined that this is still a semi-automatic system and completely legal.

Features:

  • upper: Aero Precision forged 7075-T6 A3 flattop
  • barrel: 16″, chrome lined
  • lower: Aero Precision forged 7075-T6
  • Midwest Industries free floated 12″ quad rail
  • Magpul CTR stock
  • Ergo pistol grip
  • Troy Industries ambidextrous bolt release
  • Magpul BUS rear sight, Troy fixed front sight
  • ships with five (5) 30-round magazines

The company makes both right- and left-handed models of these rifles. MSRP on the rifle is $2,400.

What do you think? Does the Bi-Directional trigger qualify as a semi-automatic firearm under US federal law and ATF rules?



Richard Johnson

An advocate of gun proliferation zones, Richard is a long time shooter, former cop and internet entrepreneur. Among the many places he calls home is http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/.


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  • Cymond

    From what I understand, it is “one shot per function of the trigger” which includes releasing the trigger. Apparently, there is an easy way to modify a Ruger Mini-14 trigger to do the same thing. It involves putting a staple behind the hammer and then pushing the hammer back.
    I’ll post more details in a little bit.

    • Cymond

      I don’t see the ‘Directional Trigger’ on their website. It definitely has some safety issues, but I think those can mostly be overcome with practice. (ALWAYS fire a double-tap).

      I’d really like to see them incorporate this system with a 3rd-position selector, like the Tac Con trigger. I would LOVE to be able to switch from a standard trigger to a “double tap trigger” with the flick of a switch.

      • mig1nc

        I was going to say the exact same thing. It would be kind of like the safe-semi-burst of the M16A2, but without the crappiness of it.

      • somebody

        It does use the 3rd position, see the second video at 2:10.

        • Cymond

          Nope, you posted this same basic comment over & over, but the second video is demonstrating the reliability of their special bolt, NOT their trigger mechanism. The “second video” was posted on youtube 11 months ago, the video demonstrating their 2-shot trigger was posted 2 weeks ago. It’s fair to bet that their 2-shot trigger probably didn’t exist 11 months ago (or they wouldn’t have waited this long to post it).

          • somebody

            Rewatched the video again, got confused as the person is just really good at firing 2 shot bursts on full auto, as the first magazine after the continuous dump he empties with only 2 shot bursts, although I started counting on the next magazine after that this time and he was firing some odd number bursts. Someone did make a trigger that did the same thing and used the 3rd position though, so we can still hope:

  • Dave

    Soooo what happens if you don’t want to fire the second shot but want to release the trigger? This seems like a monumentally stupid gimmick.

    • Cymond

      Basically, you CAN’T. you MUST fire that second shot, unless you really want to try to hold the trigger, drop the mag, and pull the bolt. It’s kinda scary, but you just need to condition yourself to always fire double taps.

    • dan

      You could just pull back the bolt an then let off the trigger.

    • An Interested Person

      It would appear that the system actually uses the third selector position. In one of the videos the shooter can be clearly seen pulling the trigger(resulting in a discharge) then releasing it without firing another round.

      In the second video, the shooter is firing(again without appearing to double-tap) and then appears to adjust the selector to fire in quasi-auto.

      • Cymond

        The second video was posted on YouTube 11 months before the first video. I believe the second video is an actual select-fire lower.

    • Russell Cason

      All weapons packages come with the Troy Ind. bolt catch attached and with the Brovo co. #3 charging handle, if you don’t want to fire the release shot, pull the charging handle and set the bolt catch.

  • Alex Nicolin

    Why do people obsess about shooting as many bullets as possible in the least amount of time, buying bi-directional triggers, bump-fire stocks and other dumb gadgets, when they can spend the time and money improving their skills so they can hit the maximum number of targets in the least amount of time, which is what really matters?

    • big daddy

      It’s called fun, It’s fun to shoot full auto. There’s no other reason. Yes you are right more time should be spent on becoming a better shot, especially under combat type situations but having fun is a big motivator. Since I do not hunt and I am older and disabled for me it’s mostly about fun. I’d love to have a full auto something to waste money at the range, although I do practice a lot on becoming a better shot with all my guns.

    • Russell Cason

      The design can give you both, with this system you control your rate of fire. on an automatic weapon you tap that trigger and you just fired at least 3 rounds this system lets you determine your rate of fire.

  • Blake

    Beats an SKS slam-fire for safety, but only just barely…

  • Kendel Eckhart

    Do they just sell the trigger?

  • 1leggeddog

    I wish poeple would make the presentation bit of their videos OUTSIDE of ranges so we can hear what they are saying

    /rant off

  • Madcap_Magician

    I think I will pass, given that the ATF could change its mind tomorrow, and then I’d be out $2400 at best and be a felon at worst.

    EDIT: There is also the issue of… what if I don’t WANT to fire a second shot?

    • Sid Viscous

      Nothing to do with the ATF changing their mind. Article says Liberty Gun Works lawyers said it was legal.

      Atf is very Honey Badger on what random lawyers say.

    • somebody

      No, the ATF has ruled that this is legal multiple times, there was even a mini-14 trigger you could buy at one time that did the same thing (can’t find it anywhere online now though). Here is another person’s AR15 conversion that has the ability to turn the second shot on and off by flipping the safety to the third position:

      • Madcap_Magician

        My point is that ATF letters can be reversed without notice by the agency at any time.

        • somebody

          I doubt they are going to reverse their ruling when they have ruled the same way multiple times over the past 14 years at least. Also the definition of a machine gun is a gun that fires more than one round per action of the trigger, the ATF ruled that this was legal because pulling the trigger is one action and releasing it is another action.

          • Madcap_Magician

            I don’t think they will either, but I don’t want to spend $2400 to find out I’m wrong. I guess I’m in a minority though, but six years as an infantryman picking up brass and links for a battalion’s worth of machine gunners has kind of turned me off of full auto and reasonable facsimiles thereof.

          • Phillip Cooper

            Right there with you, in opinion and experience.

            Full auto is fine as long as someone else is paying for it, and cleaning up the mess.

          • COL Bullseye

            In that case, a little rotary trigger with 15 “pulls” per revolution, making your AR a “Gatling Gun” would be legal, right? Gatling Guns are not considered full auto, are they? Wow–that could be up to 30 rounds per second!

          • somebody

            >In that case, a little rotary trigger with 15 “pulls” per revolution,
            making your AR a “Gatling Gun” would be legal, right? Gatling Guns are
            not considered full auto, are they? Wow–that could be up to 30 rounds
            per second!

            Have fun:
            http://www.cabelas.com/product/BMF-Activator/707343.ut
            Only 4 rounds per rotation though, besides you aren’t going to get past 15 per second with an ar15 as you the gun still has a max cyclic rate of about 900 and approaching 15 rounds per second could possibly cause hammer follow and make the gun fail to fire.

          • Phillip Cooper

            You’re betting an awful lot there. The ATF can and has reversed their rulings before. Also, they are known to change definitions at will. They’re also known to tinker with suspect firearms to MAKE them malfunction in order to get a conviction- to the extent they had to modify an AR15 pretty heavily to convict a servicemember.

          • somebody

            While the ATF has reversed a few single rulings, the idea that they will just turn around and reverse 15 years of rulings because they feel like it is ridiculous.

            >to the extent they had to modify an AR15 pretty heavily to convict a servicemember.

            Are you talking about the case where the moron had the full m16 trigger group in his gun minus the auto sear and the gun would sometimes fire a string of shots then malfunction when he flipped the selector to the third position, then lent the gun to his friend who started using it at a public range with the selector at the third position?

  • allannon

    I’d be more interested if it didn’t have the trigger.

    I guess there’s some utility in it, mostly in keeping ammo companies afloat, but my shooting habits don’t lean towards (pseudo-)burst-fire.

    They do lean towards cheaper ammo, though, so that’d be nice.

    • salty

      then buy literally ANY OTHER ar15 on the market!!!
      you have alot of choicres if this isnt for you!

      rant off

      • allannon

        Those tend not to be 7.62×39. So literally not literally any other AR15 on the market.

        I wish people would learn what the word “literally” means.

        • MR

          Simple barrel, bolt, and mag swap away from “literally”, well, just about, any other.ar15 on the market. But, yeah, gotta pay attention to the details.

    • Russell Cason

      L.G.W. offers this weapons platform in semi auto. checkout the website. The 7.62×39 ar-15 is what I carry and the performance is awesome.

      • allannon

        So they do.

        …might have to put some money aside for one. 😀

  • Andrew

    If it had a 3 position selector that allowed you to choose between 1 shot per pull & release and 2 shots…maybe.

    But I don’t want to shoot 2 times EVERY time. Pass.

  • iksnilol

    If they made it take the third position then it would be good IMO. As is this is a rifle that turns a 30 rd mag into a 15 rd one.

    • somebody

      It does use the 3rd position, watch the second video starting at 2:10.

      • Eric

        that’s a full auto at 210.

      • Cymond

        The second video is demonstrating their special 7.62×39 bolt and it’s reliability. They’re running it on a full-auto lower.

  • jamezb

    Years ago a v-shaped spring setup was sold for the Mini-14 which, when inserted in the trigger group, allowed the same type of action.. I don’t know if it was simply a case of no-interest or BATF decision, but either way, it did not last long.

    • Cymond

      Judging from extremely negative forum discussions I’ve seen, I would bet on “no interest”.

  • J.T.

    “What do you think? Does the Bi-Directional trigger qualify as a semi-automatic firearm under US federal law and ATF rules?”

    Probably not. It is technically two shots per pull of the trigger. It seems like they have done some research but don’t actually have an ATF approval letter stating that it isn’t a machine gun and I doubt they will get one.

    • Jeff

      There is a preexisting ruling that the release of the trigger can constitute a pull away from the operator. One pull towards, one pull away are thusly 2 pulls and 2 bullets.

  • Sid Viscous

    I’ll pass. I recently bought a bolt from them. It was heavily used and not even cleaned.

    No response from them when I asked about it.

    I decided to keep it. Then I find it won’t chamber in my rifle. Doesnt’ work with the headspace, and I’m not the first to run across this problem.

  • Jeff

    For the noisy crowd who likes to waste ammo, this should be fun to drop a bumpfire stock on to. As far as these things go, this seems the most practical in that it doesn’t diminish the shooters control. The safety issue of always having a second shop is something the manufacturer will need to address. I doubt it’s something they ignored and as others pointed out it doesn’t force the second show without putting it in that position. Meaning safety is a matter of training.

  • dan citizen

    I saw a shooting accident on a range years back with one of these “pull-release triggers” that worked like the one in this article.

    It was on an expensive O/U shotgun presumably designed for skeet. The new owner bought it not knowing one barrel fired on the pull and the second fired on the release. They had been loading and firing only one shell at a time and then they loaded two.

    Anyway, his wife took off the front half of her foot and a lot of commotion ensued.

    We couldn’t figure out what had gone wrong, assuming a mechanical malfunction, until an old timer came over who new about such things.

    Additionally some old shotguns set the trigger when pulled and fired when released.

  • Joe

    So did it get approved by the ATF? If so TAKE MY MONEY

  • Vhyrus

    We NEED to get Miculek one of these. NOW!

  • Ken

    You can basically do this to any hooked two stage trigger (M1, AK, Mini-14, aftermarket AR triggers). However, it would be nice to have that selector to enable and disable that function.

    • somebody

      You have to enable it by turning the selector lever to the 3rd position, look at the second video at 2:10.

      • Cymond

        The second video is demonstrating their special 7.62×39 bolt and it’s reliability. They’re running it on a full-auto lower to prove it can handle the rate of fire. Watch closely and you’ll see it fire a burst with no trigger movement.

      • Ken

        Whoops, I worded that wrong. I meant that while you can convert a regular trigger to do this, you won’t have the selector function.

        You can basically grind down the disconnector hook so it’s short enough to not pass the hammer back to the trigger, but long enough to catch the hammer to prevent follow.

        Another way is to have an M16 selector and disconnector. Grind down the tail of the disconnector so that when the selector is placed on the 3 oclock position (which would normally fully disengage the disconnector), the disconnector would only be partially disengaged so it does not pass the hammer back to the trigger. If they have a “selector” switch on their trigger group, that’s how I’d imagine it would work.

  • hking

    I am sick of the “We think its ok with the ATF” crap coming out. Get a frickin letter, post it big on your website, or shutup.

  • Steven Seagal

    Everything an awesome dude wants, in one package! Just flip it to awesome mode and ROCK OUT!!!!

  • Jeff Smith

    And by “carefully examined ATF rules”, they mean “googled previous ATF rulings and charged them for it”.

    • COL Bullseye

      Did the attorneys produce a letter on BATFace stationary similar to their letter on 80% lowers? That is what I would want to see from THIS Chicago mob gang.

  • Rick

    I loves me some cool stuff but that trigger is still “do not want”.

    I want MORE control of my firearm, not less.

    Besides, ranges around here do not allow double-tap outside of competitions.

  • floppyscience

    Being able to fire steel-cased stuff is all well and good, but did they address 7.62×39 AR mags, which are by far the weakest part of 7.62×39 ARs?

  • Yellow Devil

    To hell with the ATF, my question is the bi-directional trigger pull even a good idea? Some have already pointed out the safety factor in it (or lack thereof) and I have to agree. Even in burst or auto settings, there is still a degree of control.

    • HSR47

      A video posted higher in the comments seems to show that it only functions in that manner when set to the third position.

      Given the way that the AR15 trigger group works (and most others for that matter), you have a three-piece fire control group: A trigger, a hammer, and a disconnector. The hammer interfaces with both the disconnector and trigger in such a way that, when discharging the firearm the disconnector will catch the hammer, and release it as soon as the trigger is released, at which time the hammer and trigger will re-engage.

      What this particular trigger does is change that last part: With the selector lever in the third position, the relationship of the trigger and disconnector is changed such that when the trigger is released, the hammer is released from the disconnector and NOT caught by the trigger.

      Given this, it stands to reason that if you switch the selector from the third position to the second (or first) that the trigger may be released without firing an additional cartridge.

      That also assumes that the trigger was designed by someone who knew what they were doing, and then subsequently manufactured to the proper specifications…. I don’t know that I’d trust an unknown company to do that….

      • Cymond

        I think the video posted by “someone” of a 2-shot trigger is from a different company, not Liberty Gun Works.

      • Sulaco

        Is there still the danger then of out of battery fire like noted in the Mini 14 alterations?

  • MR

    Are they gonna offer the trigger separately? I’ll echo the calls for one mode with one shot only and a “third position” of the selector activating the bi-di trigger.

  • Bal256

    Everyone in the comment sections are claiming this is apparently dangerous. Don’t point the weapon, whether loaded or not, at anything you don’t intend to shoot. There. I solved all your safety concerns.

    • Laserbait

      Tell that to the guy with the KSG and Promag VFG.

      • Eric Shearer

        And keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot, then the KSG guy would be ok.

  • ChrisK

    The ATF ruling letter on bi-directional triggers:
    http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a381/yekimak/batferuger2-shot001.jpg

    • MVasilakis

      So they’re saying that yes it’s ok but if it can be modified to fire full auto then you are at risk of violating the NFA. So it’s yes but no? lol

  • 1 With a Bullet

    If their attention to detail is such that they misspell their own name in their own video (0:14), I’ll pass on trusting their legal interpretations.

  • Hrachya H.

    They should send one to Jerry Miculek…

    • MR

      He’s skilled enough not to need it. His competition might want it…

  • mark

    I really like this idea, but only if you have a 3 position selector…I really liked the kriss vectors 2 shot burst mode (almost like an auto double tap) so this basically does the same. Needless to say I’ll be getting one when it comes out!!!!

  • COL Bullseye

    I don’t have a copy of BATFace’s unconstitiutional rules and regs in front of me, but don’t they describe semi-auto as “one round per PULL of the trigger?” It seems like some Adolf Holder is going to dictate that this rifle gives two rounds per PULL.

    • guest

      No, it gives one round on pull, then one round on release.

      This type of trigger is used in competition shooting as well, I think shotguns

  • ozzallos .

    “lawyers carefully examined ATF rules and determined that this is still a semi-automatic system and completely legal.”

    …Until it isn’t.

  • The problem with 7.62x39mm ARs isn’t related to the bolt. The problem is the magazines, and sometimes cheap and inconsistent ammunition.

    • Russell Cason

      After we fixed the bolt failure problem with the 7.62×39 and redimentioned it to shoot steel cased ammo( that’s why they wont headspace the Russian ammo manufacturers don’t load ammo to our specs so you actually have to take it out of spec to work with the ammo) we worked 3 months on the new generation of C products defense mags. they had several issues but run great now that is actually what our first video was about to show the 7.62×39 weapons platform running in full auto with the C products defense mags.

  • Russell Cason

    To see our new liberator pistol packaged check out Checkmate gun in Naples Fl. on Facebook.