eTrigger for Ruger 10/22

etrigger

Described as an “electromechanical trigger, similar to those found on auto-loading firearms in Olympic competition,” the Electronic Arms eTrigger Adjustable Electronic Trigger System is a replacement for the stock system on a Ruger 10/22.

etrigger

The system is user adjustable and is powered by a single 9 volt battery.  The unit is not small, and from the photos, it appears to be about the size of an M14 magazine.  The eTrigger sells for $450 on ebay.

On their Facebook page, the company is also showing a prototype of a second generation eTrigger in a bullpup-configured rifle.

etrigger

Thanks to Cymond for the tip.


Richard Johnson

An advocate of gun proliferation zones, Richard is a long time shooter, former cop and internet entrepreneur. Among the many places he calls home is http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/.


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  • anonymoussayswhat

    350 dollars for an electronic trigger with even more to break, just to avoid paying a gunsmith maybe 100 bucks to properly setup your trigger sear. no thanks.

    • safdf

      It’s a 10/22. Please don’t make your life depend on your 10/22.

  • nick

    You have got to love it when gun parts cost more than the gun itself.

  • B. Fuddled

    Technology in search of an application. Do the high heeled boots on the lady shooter make a fashion statement or do they enhance the trigger?

    • Cymond

      You’d have to ask her. This isn’t a polished marketing video, it’s an old video that simply shows some function testing. She is probably the designer’s daughter/sister/girlfriend/etc and that’s just how she dressed herself on an average day.

  • JaxD

    Too small. Needs to be bigger.

  • Bunny

    What if i get haxed and it goes full auto?!

    • Cymond

      This is sarcastic, right?

      • Schadavi

        I think it is a fair point. I think it would not take too long unti someone thinks of a way to add a “hidden” mode, leading to a ban or over-regulation of electronic triggers.

        • Therecanbeonlynone

          couple parts from radioshack and about 5 minutes and i can not only make this full auto, but VARIABLE RATE full auto.

        • Cymond

          “What if i get haxed and it goes full auto?!”

          Yes, it could be willfully modified (any trigger could be) but I doubt there’s any real risk of someone else “hacking” your e-trigger without your knowledge. It’s not like it has Bluetooth!

          • gggplaya

            Actually, all one has to do is figure out what main microcontroller chip is on it, carefully desolder it off, and resolder a new chip with different programming on it. An amateur with some C programming knowledge should be able to do that.

            Or simply have a custom pcb made with the same dimensions for about $60. Draw the circuit on the board from a paintball gun. Move all the chips over from a paintball gun. Now you have full auto. It’s not hard to someone with a basic electronics background.

            I see the atf shutting this down pronto.

          • Cymond

            again, the original comment didn’t ask if it could be hacked by the owner, it was ‘what if I GET hacked’, which sounds like something someone else would do to the shooter without his knowledge. “My computer got hacked” has a very different meaning than “I hacked my computer”.

          • Chrome Dragon

            Better point: Once the electromechanicals have spread around, someone will figure out how to put an Arduino compatible microcontroller in there, probably an ATTiny, and use the rest of the room freed up to replace the battery with a 123a lithium with some staying power.

            At that point, you just flash your favorite firmware via the USB interface to get whatever you want out of the new smartgun.

            I expect the Arduino Micro, Nano, and (Pro)Mini versions will be most popular in home conversions, due to their relatively tiny footprints, but the Arduino BT offers Bluetooth connectivity, the Illuminato Genesis has open source everything – including firmware, the Adafruit Trinket is the size of a quarter and could be wedged into a 1911 grip, nevermind an e-trigger the size of an M14 mag, the Femtuino is like that, but sacrifices some compatibility – at the benefit of being the size of a *dime* – this one retrofits a Kel-Tec, and there’s enough wireless-capable microcontroller dev/prototyping boards out there speaking a half dozen kinds of RF that “my smartgun got haxed, lol” will be a serious problem in certain cyberpunk-leaning circles within five years.

          • BryanS

            Hell, you could probably do it with a 555 chip and a few resistors. No need for all that stuff.

          • Chrome Dragon

            But then you’ll spend more than any cut-down Arduino dev board on fabricating a circuit board to make the 555 do its thing, even using the laser-printer-toner-and-toilet-pipe-cleaner method of circuit board etching. Arduinos also have the happy side effect of letting you match any of the exciting behaviors found in any electropneumatic paintball marker of your choice – ramping full auto, disposing of the select-fire mechanism by implementing a “pull pull pull mash” system, any flavor or rate of burstfire you prefer, and setting your favorite with nothing more exotic than a microUSB cable.

            It also lets you do fun things like build smartgun functionality, including nasty surprises like “Authorized users can fire the gun. Unauthorized users are electrocuted” or use Microsoft’s bodybus instead of RFID implants or rings or whatever, or interface your gun’s trigger to an EEG headband that automatically fires as soon as your brain decides you’ve lined up the crosshairs, or one that only fires when you’ve both pulled the trigger *and* your brain recognizes a direct hit will happen (actually, DARPA wants to put that stuff in binoculars), GPS trackable, remotely detonable encrypted cyberguns, or whatever other cyberpunk nastiness you can imagine. While the electronics are more complicated, they’re no less well characterized or hardened, and the mechanicals of such a beast include no new failure points that can’t be detected by automated software debuggers checking for race conditions.

    • BryanS

      Its a fairly simple analog circuit. You have to add in a controller and whatnot to do so.

    • herb

      interesting thought, along with the fact that if the reset were really quick and the pull really short and light, it would diminish the practical line between semi and full-auto. It gets me thinking, to the extent that it was ever timely, that ban might be becoming out-of-date. If so I hope it’s left to fade away rather reenforced with regulations for e-triggers.

    • dan citizen

      this is actually a very serious issue with BATFE and has lead them to decide against some previous electronic triggers.

      • Cymond

        I’m just beginning to learn about electronic triggers, can you name the triggers or guns that were ruled against, so I can do more research?

        • dan citizen

          I can’t recall a specific make.

          I have seen custom builds based on paintball trigger units rejected because a simple electronic change would yield automatic fire, therefore making them “easily converted”

          At the time I seem to recall BATFE said they would not approve any electronic trigger on a semi auto, with some olympic guns being a possible exception.

          I assume this has been dealt with by this manufacturer, I would be interested to see how they worked it out,

    • Ken

      I think it will take more effort to do that than to simply take a BMF activator and put an electric motor on it (illegal, for anyone unaware).

  • Dan

    When they make an electric semi auto trigger comparable to what the paintball industry has i would be all over It. I have seen strictly semi auto capable of 23 shots per second, the fastest I could work my fingers was 17. A trigger like that would be worth a couple hundred to me.

  • Mike N.

    I’m not sure what problem this is trying to solve.

    • Michel_T

      I’ll bey you they have biometric features that will soon be available…

  • MemorableC

    I dont mind it, wouldent get it though, but there is nothing wrong with options

  • Cymond

    Wow, a lot of negativity here. From what I’ve seen, the only way to safely go below a 2 pound trigger pull on a 10/22 is to get an aftermarket 2-stage trigger. This electronic trigger has the potential to produce a trigger measured in ounces, with a very short pull. It seems like an ideal trigger for people who build “ultimate” 10/22s and shoot them from a benchrest. It also has promise in a bullpup, where it would solve the problems of a crappy trigger linkage.

    • iksnilol

      1+

      Seems ideal for target guns and bullpups.

      • http://www.thefirearmblog.com/ Phil W “Senior Writer TFB”

        I’m currently working on doing a review of this system. It will most likely be in Early August but I think there will be some surprises.

    • http://suburbansdomain.blogspot.com Suburban

      http://www.coolguyguns.com/Two-Stage-Ruger-10-22-Trigger_p_10.html

      I think I had my KID trigger adjusted to 6 ounces.

      • Cymond

        Ok, that’s better than I thought but according to what I’ve read so far, the e-trigger will go down to 2.25 ounces with a pull length less than 1 millimeter.

        • Rusty Shackleford

          If that were the case, I’d expect a lot faster ROF than either video shows.

          • Cymond

            As I said in another comment, these were function tests, not marketing videos. A lot depends on the shooter’s level of skill, and from what I saw in the video, they weren’t really trying to achieve a high ROF.
            The designer’s comments on Rimfire Central state that it’s meant as a target trigger. However, one beta-tester (2 years ago) stated that when he first tried it with a minimal pull weight and length, that he fired a double. He clarified that the gun didn’t double, his finger did.

    • Mark N.

      I agree on the bullpup for the reasons you state, but for the rifle? Nah.

    • Rick

      I had a black powder muzzleloader that was electrically fired. Trigger was a clean mouse click break. I expect this will be even more so

  • BryanS
    • Cymond

      Wow, excellent thread! It’s nice to read the designer’s intent. He says his ultimate goal was to create a bullpup with a good trigger. He als says the trigger will go down to 2.25 ounces (my Ruger trigger pack with Volquartsen parts is about 2 pounds). It’s also impressive to see how much machining goes into making one of these. Yes, they’re expensive, but they’re handmade in a machine shop.
      I’ve only read the first page so far, but will continue reading. Thanks!

      • http://www.thefirearmblog.com/ Phil W “Senior Writer TFB”

        The bullpup will be one we’ll review.

        • An Interested Person

          Oh yes.

          • Chrome Dragon

            All of my yes.

  • you cant spell art without AR

    The design seem to be a clone of a staple gun?

  • Andrew

    “up down up down a a b b select start” for Full Auto Mode

    • 1leggeddog

      Good ol’ Konami code

    • Geodkyt

      Last I checked, electronic triggers on semiautomatic firearms rated an automatic “machinegun” classification by Tech Branch, as there is no MECHANICAL way to ensure some smart electron pusher doesn’t reprogram (even, if necessary, by replacing chips) it for automatic fire.

      Last I checked, Olympic Free Gun electronic triggers were on single shot pistols. . .

      • google_happy

        You didn’t check hard enough. Look up “Olympic rapid fire pistol electronic trigger” on the Googles and you will see some examples. Pardini, MatchGuns, Walther all make electronic trigger’d semi autos. Some are specifically legal in California by statute, for gosh sakes!

        • Geodkyt

          I see that Pardini only started making pistols with electronic triggers in 2008, which was several years after I dropped out of small arms design, so yay — ATF realizes that a $2,600 pistol that only holds 5 rounds of .22RF and has an anatomic graip that makes it very difficult to use one in anything but standard bullseye stances isn;t an actual threat.

          Cool.

          Will that reasoning survive a gun that ends up costing less than an AR15, is VERY easy to shoot in unusual stances, and has 100 round magazines available, I wonder?

          • Google_happy

            http://m.imgur.com/a/vt2Qz
            The link above is a fairly recent atf tech branch letter. Question 21 and answer 21 make it pretty clear that atf considers 1 shot per pull electronic triggers on semiauto rifles legal, even in the context of ar-15 rifles. Those have even bigger magazines than 10-22s and you can shoot them in even more stances such as “crane position” and “mall ninja” stance. I forget what part of federal firearms law deals with proper posture.

            Btw, the very next question makes it clear you can’t “store up” pull signals. Some of those questions are pretty dang funny.

          • Google_happy

            The GP calibre 22 short model was developed in collaboration with the renowned champion German marksman Ralf Schumann. The GP Schumann established itself at the top of the Olympic Rapid fire Pistol event. In 2001 the GPE was produced, its most important feature being its electronic trigger. The Athens Olympics in 2004 was the last in which competitors shot with the 22 short calibre in the Rapid fire Pistol event. The Pardini GPE has proudly closed this era, winning the gold medal with its “customary” Schumann.

            Again, from google. Pardini developed etrigger semiauto rapid fire pistols in 2001, not 2008.

          • Geodkyt

            Hey, I was only going on what Pardini put ON THEIR OWN WEBSITE — which was that a particular model of pistol – introduced in 2008 – was the FIRST semiautomatic they offered with an electronic trigger.

            If Pardini’s own information is wrong, mea culpa.

          • Geodkyt

            This Tech Branch letter is the ONLY really relevant information on the legality presented thus far.

            ATF was formally asked, ATF has formally answered, and while they could change their minds tomorrow (as they have so frequently done in the past – and sometimes for perfectly logical reasons based on new data), it’s harder to convince a judge the change wasn’t “arbitrary” (within the legal sense) when they fully articulated their logic in the first letter.

            Of course, there is still the fact that the questions (and answers) on electronic triggers DID NOT address “readily restored” – that strawman favorite of the ATF for machinegun classifications. So any electronic trigger will have to be something that ATF Tech Branch doesn’t think is “readily restored” (i.e., “converted” – ATF has long treated “restored” and “converted” as legal synonyms).

  • me ohmy

    can’t seem to see a reason for it when the Volquartson units are so epically amazing and smooth. with target grade trigger pulls.. and no battery to go dead.
    NEVER MIND it looks like a damn M-14 mag with a trigger…on a slim profiled 22 rifle..bleagh

    • Cymond

      FWIW, the designer stated that a fresh battery should provide over 14,000 shots and that the battery won’t go dead suddenly. Rather, the rate of fire will drop as the battery gets low. Even a battery that most people would call “dead” in most devices will still discharge shots.

  • 1leggeddog

    The only nice thing i see here is that bullpup

    • iphonetechtips

      I don’t know, I thought the woman was pretty nice too…

  • gunslinger

    i can’t watch the videos.. what makes this an “electromechanical” trigger? do you press a button to get a smooth release of the firing pin?

    • Geodkyt

      Basically. No mechanical connection between trigger and sear – so you can run the trigger pull WAAAAAY low without affecting the risk of the sear slipping because the release is so light.

      Been used in Olympic target pistols for a while. The ones I was familiar with were single shot, and you could set up the trigger so that it was RELEASED to fire (less disturbance to release an already pulled trigger than to pull it) – ISTR that some shooting sports allowed the “release trigger”, some didn’t. . . but it was easy to set, being electronic.

    • Cymond

      A purely electronic trigger would fire the round with an electric charge, this system uses a solenoid to activate the standard 10/22 mechanical internals. It still has a hammer, sear, mechanical disconnector, springs, pins, etc.

      BryanS provided this link from a few years ago, which the designer talks about the system, and includes pics of the parts and operation. http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=317395

      The designer stated that all of the parts which may wear/break are either standard Ruger trigger parts, or standard industrial parts. The custom parts are the housing and trigger housing.

  • Secundius

    On the eTrigger? How does that differ from a smartgun?

    • Chrome Dragon

      This offers – begins to offer – what smartguns of 1980s cyberpunk promised.

      I for one welcome my nerve-spike-triggered, cryptographically-secure induction-powered antitank-handgun. :D

    • Cymond

      Well, I think the issue with so-called smartguns is that they are explicitly designed to make the gun nonfunctional under certain circumstances. This guy has made sure to make this system extremely simple, with easily replaceable parts.

  • Wes

    What’s needed is a thumb push button. Would completely decrease or eliminate accuracy issues due to trigger over travel or poor trigger snatch,

  • no

    Make one for the Tavor, then I’ll be impressed.

    • Secundius

      @ no.

      What’s wrong with the Tavor Trigger System. I’ve been considering purchasing one.