First of Many Arm Brace MP5’s to Hit the Street (MAC Reviews POF-5 9mm)

Capture

The surprise ruling by the ATF has opened a significant market to gun manufacturers in the United States. When I was at the NRA show, I was just starting to get a hint of the many good things to come. PTR Industries (G3 Clones), Sig Sauer, and other brands were starting to talk of their new pistol lines and in some cases, their own braces. To put it simply, the ruling is a blessing for all types of pistols and I suspect that HK clones like this one will be first out of the gate.

POF-5 Review Picture

Military Arms Channel was able to work with POF (Pakistan Ordnance Factory) with one of their latest prototype’s set for release soon. The POF-5 9mm is a licence-built MP5 clone firing semi-auto only. The kicker to the video is Century Arms’ latest prototype stock adapter, complete with a arm brace. in addition, it comes with threads and tri-lug adapters for suppressors.

This make a strong candidate for a full-auto conversion as soon as the FFL arrives.

Hit the video below for all the glory shots you can imaging.



Nathan S.

One of TFB’s resident Jarheads, Nathan now works within the firearms industry. A consecutive Marine rifle and pistol expert, he enjoys local 3-gun, NFA, gunsmithing, MSR’s, & high-speed gear. Nathan has traveled to over 30 countries working with US DoD & foreign MoDs.

Nathan can be reached at Nathan.S@TheFirearmBlog.com

The above post is my opinion and does not reflect the views of any company or organization.


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  • BattleshipGrey

    It’s very encouraging to see more braces available for various platforms, but the price tags on MP5 clones is a non-starter (at least for me). $1500! To make it what it should be with the brace costs an added $250. If you still want to add a lighted forearm that’s probably another $250. Mind you, my gun budget isn’t that huge compared to others, but $2000 for a PCC is unreasonable IMO.

    • echelon

      I’m really hoping that as a by product of the ATF banning the 7N6 5.45 ammo that we’ll now get proper Krinkov copies that we can put braces on…those should hopefully fall well below $1500.

      • BattleshipGrey

        Exactly, currently you can buy AKs with braces for under $600. Out of such a short barrel I’d rather shoot a pistol caliber, but when you look at the price difference, I’d stick with a rifle caliber.

        http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-rifles/zastava-pap-m92-pv-pistol-w-krinkov-style-muzzle-brake-sb-47-stabilizing-arm-brace-detail.html?Itemid=0

        • iksnilol

          7.62x39mm works well out of a 10 inch barrel. You get about 640 m/s, which starts out at 715 m/s. 85 m/s for 6 inches isn’t bad, though I would stick with a 12 inch barrel (only 35 m/s loss). This is for Ammo from Jugoslavija, M67 which had the hollow cavity in the bullet.

          5.45 I am not sure about, I wold guess it perform well due to the tumbling tendencies from the hollow bullets.

          Either way it is much more powerful than your average pistol with a much longer range (due to spitzer bullet).

      • Century has a PAP Krink with the brace.

        • Cymond

          I think he meant 5.45 pistols, which no one has been willing to produce for fear that 7N6 would be banned. Now that the ban is in place, there’s no reason to hold back on a 5.45 pistol.

          • iksnilol

            Yes, there is a reason to hold back. 7n6 isn’t all 5.45, you can still import cheap Chinese and Russian ammo that is steel core.

          • echelon

            I’m pretty sure the ban will cover anything with a steel core in it. The ban was cited over a gun that was never imported into the US as far as anyone knows. The wz/89 Onyks.

          • iksnilol

            The ban only applies to 7n6 if IIRC.

          • echelon

            The only Russian surplus ammo that I can find for sale in the US is 7N6. I don’t see any Chinese 5.45 ammo available in the US. There is non-armor piercing ammo from Wolf and Red Army, etc. but none of that would qualify under the ban.

            My point is that if there is any other armor piercing ammo being imported into the US other than the Russian 7N6 then it would still fall under the ban because the ATF has produced this phony example of a 5.45 pistol to justify it…

            If we’re talking 7.62×39 or some other caliber then it’s either already been banned since they make a pistol variant or in the case of 7.62x54R then no definitely do not make a pistol variant…but nothing stopping the ATF from producing a real ghost gun to do that I suppose…

            But as I was stating, since they went ahead and banned the 5.45 7N6 and nobody is willing to fight it in any meaningful way then we might as well at least make some new variants to make up for it.

          • Jhuff

            No, it applies to ALL steel/brass/tungsten/depleted uranium (for whoever wants that shit) 5.45. A 7N6 import application was filed to the ATF and was denied on grounds there were (supposedly) 5.45 handguns. Why on earth would it only apply to 7N6? That makes no sense from a legal standpoint. It just happened to be the only steel core 5.45 round available commercially

          • Geodkyt

            The 7n6 was the only one ATF identified — but the REASON they *could* ban it was that 5.45x39mm is now considered a “handgun” round. ALL 5.45x39mm ammo is now “handgun” ammo – so as they becomes aware of loadings that violate the “copkiller ammo” ban, they’ll list it.

            The horse as already left the barn, and the barn burned to ashes.

          • echelon

            This.

  • echelon

    Yes, yes, yes! I’m so happy to see all of these guns coming out with braces! I’m hoping this will eventually sound the death knell for SBR NFA laws.

    But even if it doesn’t, then fine. I’m absolutely fine purchasing products like this and not paying $200 and filling out onerous paperwork and being subject to registration!

  • Chief Homeslice

    How many Americans are willing to give Pakistani companies money?

    • Duray

      You realize our elected officials give $2 Billion a year to Pakistan, right?

      • Chief Homeslice

        I sure do. You do realize where we found Osama Bin Laden, and you do know POF is a Pakistani-government owned corp. right?

        • David_TheMan

          So what. The US government has done far worse world wide than OBL did to the US. I take it you feel the world should boycott all US industry the way you seemingly want to boycott pakistani business?

          Get your head out of the ground. Wake up.

          • dannye

            I get the feeling that the same people who refuse to buy this Pakistani firearm get all googly-eyed with firearms and mags with the LEO/MIL mark of the devil.

          • Chief Homeslice

            The rest of the world should feel free to buy US products or not. You’re already seeing folks like Cisco lose tons of their foreign business from the NSA leaks. Its called voting with your dollars.

            I wouldn’t buy from POF unless I really had a specific need. I probably wouldn’t buy from a US government-owned arms company either. My original post was simply asking how many other folks would or would not support this manufacturer (as some people certainly won’t)

            Do you have any scruples when it comes to spending your hard earned cash?

      • The Hun

        That’s peanuts compared to what the US taxpayer gives to Israel.

    • 360_AD

      You’d be shocked by how many don’t care. Then again, maybe not. Most people just don’t think that deep. Plus, they are not really giving all $1500 to the Pakistanis. It’s probably safe to assume a 50% mark up between manufacturer and retail price. So some of that money is going towards American businesses and their employees.

      With the POF at least you get a cool toy in return. With the $2B, you get more ISI sponsored terrorism and threat of nuclear disaster. Honestly, that’s better than Congress giving 100% of that $2B in American tax dollars with no strings attached.

    • Mark

      My tax dollars flood in there yearly and likely fund terrorism against the US and India.

      At least this time I get a subgun.

      • Sean

        So you are an Indian disguised as Mark, Indians btw are the biggest supporters of terrorism and they have proved it by electing a known extremist Hindu terrorist involved in mass murder of thousands of innocent people in India, that is why US denied him a visit visa to US

    • Anonymoose

      http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/h-k-uzi-s-mac-10/miscellaneous-hk-uzi-mac-type.html I prefer to buy American whenever I can, and if not, at least European or Japanese.

    • ROHAIL

      we dont need your money.this $2bn is for our corrupt politician.your gov use this money to bribe our gov so they dont start dialouge with TTP.do you know how much money and people we lost in this war?$100bn and 50,000+ people

  • Mark

    Enjoy it while you can. I’m guessing probably 3 months before the ATF revisits their decision on this.

    • Mahler

      They haven’t yet on bump fire stocks (and the bump fire trigger, I believe). I feel that makes these safe unless they end up in some high-profile shooting.

      • Mark

        I hope I’m wrong but I feel this is more comparable to the Akins Accelerator. It took them two years to reverse their decision. Maybe I’m just a pessimist.

        • gunslinger

          ah…the akins. never mind the design he sent in was different than what he sold. and the spring.. don’t forget the spring!

        • Geodkyt

          Akins is NOT at all comparable.

          1. They TESTED a _different_ design than that which he ended up producing.

          2. ATF could not get the tested design to work.

          3. ATF never issued an actual determiniation letter – the letter they DID issue on the “broken” design had a semantic meaning that totalled ZERO. It basically said, “If it isn’t illegal, it’s legal. We couldn’t get it to work, so we don’t know.” Akins ran off and treated that as if it were graven on stone tables, handed down from Mount Sinai. (No, NORMAL determination letters do NOT read like the one Akins relied on. They really don’t.)

          4. On a FACTUAL basis, the way the production Akins Accelerator works is like a machinegun conversion kit, not “bump firing” — if you clamp the Akins into a vice, then clamp something across teh front of the trigger rest, it will fire until it runs out of ammo. Bump firing (even with something like a Slidefire stock) doesn’t do that — they fire ONE shot, then quit. From a mechanical POV, the Akins stock converts a normally blowback semi into a weird hybrid* of a blowback operating cycle with a long recoil trigger reset. That one spring makes ALL that difference. . .

          5. After noticing that Akins was widely advertising his stock as if it were an ATF-approved machinegun conversion kit, ATF got ahold of a production version, noticed that it WASN’T the version they tried (and failed) to test, and they tested it. ONLY THEN did they issue an actual, real, determination letter – which basically said, “It’s a machinegun conversion kit when it has the spring installed.”

          I often give ATF a lot of grief for stupid rulings, but in the case of the Akins, they only screwed up ONCE — after failing to test it the first time, they should have simply said, “We couldn’t test it, so we cannot make any determination one way or the other. Feel free to resubmit a working prototype, and we’ll re-test it.” Akins DID NOT UNDERSTAND THAT PART (despite it being written in fairly clear English), because he didn’t pay attention to the WHOLE letter – I’m guessing he only skimmed it.

          *For an even weirder hybrid, there was a WWII Japanese 20mm autocannon that had gas operated UNLOCKING, but the OPERATING system was pure blowback.

    • M. Hadley

      People have known about these braces for over a year, yet you and all the other Fortune Tellers have continued insisting that this is going to get banned “soon.”

      • gunslinger

        what’s the next power ball numbers?

  • The Hun

    That dude’s beard is also a gun locker.

    • gunslinger

      makes chris costa look like a kid

  • Bob

    SEF lowers need to be put in the garbage can.
    Pictogram lower or go home.

    • JumpIf NotZero

      :/

      I own a pictogram lower, FBI all German… And I can’t possibly understand why you would write that. The burst/ambi lowers are far more complex even in Semi really for no reason. I can still recall all the times I’ve used the ambi controls (none), and everything is harder to replace or even work with.

      I’ve been kicking around a SEF lower just to have one.

  • Patrick Mingle

    Daddy needs one of these. Stat

  • Frosty_The_White_Man

    Sorry, but laying down a cool $1500 for a Pakistani gun would require surgically removing my gut instinct. The Atlantic Arms model at $2000 sounds like a safer purchase.

    • iksnilol

      Why would it be unsafe? The Pakistanis have much more experience making HK rifles than…whoever makes rifles for Atlantic Arms (unless they are German).

    • echelon

      Watch the video. Atlantic Arms is just one of the distributors for this gun. It’s the same gun made by POF…

      • Frosty_The_White_Man

        Ugh, guess I’ll spend my money elsewhere. What a bummer!

  • David

    Is this New Jersey legal?

  • big daddy

    I will NOT buy anything made in a country that supports Terror, period. I cannot stop my idiotic government from doing so but I have a choice. Sorry to go political but this is Terror. I lived within miles of the World Trade center on Staten Island and was a messenger many years ago going there every day. I know people that lost many loved ones and had friends as first responders. No I will Never, never buy from any entity that has anything to do with it.

    • Dan

      So you don’t buy US guns either?

      • Slim934

        Seriously. The US government is the biggest indirect supporter of “terror” on the planet. Be it the war on drugs (which fuels probably 90% of all organized crime at this point) or our world policeman role, we are the ones who create the conditions for these scum to flourish in this way.

        • FourString

          Precisely. We didn’t invest in Afghanistan’s infrastructure and education system after the Soviets pulled out. Nobody in Congress cared. That came back to bite us in the ass decades later.

    • JumpIf NotZero

      “I will NOT buy anything made in a country that supports Terror, period.”

      Country that supports terror…. You should read that over a few times in your head. Really depends on which side of the fence you’re on.

      Firearms, not politics.

      • sdelcegno

        exactly not exactly like the usa has its hands clean. I would wager we have killed more innocent than most nation in the past 15 years alone.

    • iksnilol

      You do realize that Al-Qaeda and Taliban are not supported by the country?

      It is really stupid, should I avoid buying American things since there were American terrorists? Since there were American mercs in my country 20 years ago?

      • big daddy

        That’s my stand. I live right near Ft. Hood now and I see what was done to these fine men and woman EVERY day. I will NEVER buy anything from Pakistan. I have a lot of guns, all made in the USA. I also served many years ago. If you want to put money directly into their hands that’s your business as the USA as for now is a country based on freedoms. I’ll give you a little hint, never again. Figure it out………

        • iksnilol

          I am going to get political so I will apologize to the moderators of this site.

          Do you think 3000 Americans are worth the deaths of 20-40 thousands of civilians and the displacement of 3.4 million people? Also that is only in Pakistan, just think of everybody in Afghanistan and Iraq.

          • Tired of Whinging Liberals

            Fuck those hadjis.

            Stack their skulls to the skies.

        • Eurocopter

          It is amusing how “Made in the US” is an argument for purchasing a weapon. And how “I served in the military” somehow automatically gives you integrity.

          • big daddy

            Try it some time you might find you get what you need.
            I don’t need anything to give me integrity I earned it by my deeds.
            I’m an American first and foremost but I am also a human being, I do not condone unnecessary violence and killing. I will not give anything to my enemy even if my government does. It’s that simple.
            If people want to look deeper into it that’s OK, you just don’t get it and that’s why Americans are who we are. That’s why even though we have done evil as a country it always ends up we fight the good fight against those who are evil and would dominate the world to enslave it. Yes I served on the German boarder to keep America and EUROPE free from the USSR’s attempt to take over Europe. So many Europeans appreciate it and so many don’t, go figure. I am from Eastern European & Russian/Ukrainian grandparents.

        • Dan

          the USA currently directly funds and arms terrorists in numerous countries, and has for many decades.

          if you truly want to stop funding terror, stop buying US made guns.

    • A Baqa

      Sir, 60,000 of my countrymen died because of terrorism. Out of those 60,000 Pakistanis, 11,000 were from the Army. Can you please explain me the logic behind funding the same people who have repeatedly attacked Pakistan and its Armed forces? We have suffered the most casualties in this “war on terror” compared to any other country in the world, please dont disrespect our dead….

  • Dan

    AA 89 or POF-5? Which one is better?

    • echelon

      Probably AA 89 since Atlantic Arms assembles those in house by their gunsmith. It is also covered under their warranty.

      That said, I’m sure the POF-5 is going to be a good gun. It’s off of a proven design and made by a company that supplies to military.

      The AA gun is more “custom” since it’s a low numbers kind of thing for Atlantic. The POF is going to be more of an “assembly line” gun because they are probably going to be cranking out decent numbers of these from a large-ish factory.

      • Dan

        i just wish a better finish were available direct from the manufacturer. don’t look forward to having to send it off right out of the box for a more durable finish.

        that aside, the push pin lower is a huge selling point in the POF-5’s favor.

        rumor has it a new batch of MKE with push pin lowers are about to hit the US however. so i would wait a few months and see.

        • echelon

          I think they just have to say that to cover what could happen during shipping since it’s international.

          Some of the pricing on this stuff is still pretty ridiculous anyway. If it costs that much to produce, import and then sell through retail channels from Pakistan then the Atlantic Arms version that is made here in the USA should be much cheaper IMO.

          I mean if I pay a few hundred for a WASR I don’t care if it’s a little banged up but if I was dropping a grand on one then yeah I’d expect the finish to be good!

  • Rob

    To preface, I am of the black boot, starched woodland camo army generation and I grew up on Die Hard, The MP-5 has been the penultimate dream of mine since childhood. That said, I will not buy a Paki made gun. I don’t care about the ethnicity of origin, just the quality of care. Pakistani merchants are notorious for shoddy workmanship and are experts of opportunistic salesmanship. Just look at their factories of shit bagpipes with american civil war uniforms being sold next door; I’m a piper, and I would not be caught stinking Irish drunk playing a paki pipe let alone a paki MP5.

    • iksnilol

      What do bagpipes have with guns? I know they make similar sounds but that’s it regarding similarities.

      I wouldn’t be afraid of quality on these, Pakistan has been making HK rifles for a while. Besides POF is the army supplier, no armies would use shitty guns.

      • Agitator

        ” no armies would use shitty guns.”

        INSAS?

        • iksnilol

          Exception that proves the rule.

          The Famas F1, M16A1/Half of M16A2s, INSAS. Those three are the holy grail of shitty guns.

    • Phil Hsueh

      If the MP5 is your penultimate dream gun then what is your ultimate dream (gun) then?

      • Rob

        Dual gold plated mexi-bedazzled 1911’s of course.

        Naa.. I’ll take an auto RPD any day over an MP5.

    • avconsumer2

      lol – that sounded like it should have had an Australian accent… “bloody Paki pipes!!”

  • JT

    MP5K model! MP5K model!

  • Steve Truffer

    And why hasn’t PTR made a functional, $900-$1000 alternative yet? That said, the adaptor and brace don’t look half bad.

  • guest

    I just love these “pistols” and “arm braces”.

    The whole thing is such a BATFE trap it’s incredible. There is just NO WAY they allowed this with use as a buttstock in mind, and there is NO WAY they will let this go on as it is.

    • sdelcegno

      The ATF has said it doesnt matter if its used as a stock. Its not a stock.

      • sdelcegno

        IF you use a buffer tube as a stock do you think thats a stock as well

        • big daddy

          Too many people talk without knowing what they talk about. If they ban it they do and it will be fought. I won’t make any remarks either way because I will admit I do not know. That’s something not many will do on the internet, just saying they do not know.

          • sdelcegno

            There was an actually ATF letter posted a couple weeks ago about the sig brace. It stated no matter how its used its not classified as a stock so it wont be banned. basically products like it have been around for a long long time just not as popular.

          • big daddy

            I carry a copy of the ATF letter in the pistol grip of all my pistols that use them.

    • echelon
    • Dan

      and yet the batfe issued a ruling specifically and explicitly stating that using the arm brace as a stock is not illegal.

      u mad bro?

  • Fruitbat44

    Pardon my ignorance, but what is the difference between an arm-brace and a shoulder-stock?
    a) Practically, and b) Legally?

    • echelon
      • Fruitbat44

        Gunslinger & echelon – Than you for the info and the link.

    • gunslinger

      Yes
      Look up the Sig Ar15 Brace.

      Legally, it is a pistol attachment (with straps) that extends from the rear of the pistol, and attaches to the forearm (with said straps) to give stability when firing a pistol. It is not a stock, and would not constitue making a SBR out of a pistol in that the INTENDED purpose of the device is to assist in gaining stability of a pistol by securing the firearm to the arm. it is NOT INTENDED to be a replacement stock and fired from the shoulder.

      what saves the MFG is that it has been shown that this can help improve accuracy and functionality of a pistol, and has been designed as an arm brace, not a stock.

      what someone in the field bubba’s this to is not their concern. and IIRC, as long as you have the arm straps affixed to the thing a shooter would be ok when firing from the shoulder. If the PoPo roll up and you don’t hve the straps, then i think the “intent” to make sbr is activated (while still not being an SBR) Can some other legal types back me up or refute?

      as for practically, see other reviews of pistol arm braces by others

      • big daddy

        You only need one strap.

  • big daddy

    I own a few rifles that use the brace including a 9mm AR. IMO I would not consider the brace a viable stock for a duty rifle. It’s OK for a range toy to have fun but for a weapon I would use in a serious combat situation no. It just does not have enough of a consistent solid mounting and shouldering. Not to mention having it in the field for any length of time, I do not feel it would hold up. For fun it’s great.

    • echelon

      For reasonable US citizen DGU purposes it is more than adequate. In a WROL or SHTF situation one would just disregard NFA at that point and put a buffer tube and stock on it and bob’s yer uncle.

      I use a KAK tube with spacers and my brace is rock solid.

      • big daddy

        I use the KAK extension tube on all my AR pistols and it is pretty good, tighter than a regular tube. Rock solid, no, not IMO. Rock solid is the Mil-spec tube with a locking Magpul stock, that’s pretty much Rock Solid as is a UBR which I do also have on an AR. The brace is close but I just do not think it will hold up in the field for a long enough period of time. I’ve been in the field enough to feel this way. Our weapons got abused pretty well even though we were not in combat, just boarder duty. I could imagine what hard use would do to them.

        • echelon

          Well maybe mine is just tighter than most, I don’t know, but it sure doesn’t move. And like I said, for civilian defensive gun usage it is more than adequate and you don’t need to pay $200, get registered and have to jump through more hoops to take the firearm to another state. Many win/wins IMO.

          And again, if we ever have a breakdown in society and I’m worried that the SB15 might not be up to snuff, well I guarantee you I’m not going to be worried about what some agency thinks about me “manufacturing” an “SBR” at that point!

          • big daddy

            If the SHTF mating season is now open. Some full length AR rifles gets mated with AR pistols.

    • Dan

      thats fine, most TFB readers have anything even close to the requirements of a duty rifle. TFB readers for the most part aren’t on patrol or in combat.

      and if you’re on duty or in combat, you likely already have NFA items anway, so no need for arm brace.

  • JLR84

    “This make a strong candidate for a full-auto conversion as soon as the FFL arrives.”

    Machine guns aren’t subject to barrel-length restrictions, so if the machine-gun registration loophole works then there would be no need for a not-stock armbrace.