Exclusive: First Photos of Curious Lethal(?) Chinese 9x20mmR Type 05 Police Ammunition

9x20mmR Type 05 Ammunition-1

Last month China’s Ministry of Public Security began allowing beat-cops on patrol to carry guns. The gun approved by the Ministry is the obscure Type 05 Police Revolver, first published online by Max Popenker. Max wrote at World.Guns.Ru

The ammunition, which is apparently based on old and rather anemic .38 S&W (9x20R) round, retains enough muzzle energy to pose a threat to any unprotected low-grade criminal at short ranges; and even if this gun will fail into wrong hands, any police body armor will be able to stop the bullet. The muzzle velocity for standard round is given as 220 m/s (720 fps). No bullet weights are given, but we can expect this round to be ballistically similar to .38 S&W, thus having muzzle energy about 220 Joules (160 Ft-Lbs).

1287753155

Max also published a photo of the 9x20mmR rounds chambered by this gun, a jacketed round and a rubber bullet round. Here is where it gets interesting: a photo has just surfaced on Chinese forums showing a cross-section of the bullets (I believe TFB is the first English-language website to post them). It turns out that both bullets are potentially less lethal. The rubber bullet is what you would expect: a long polymer bullet. The jacketed bullet is interesting. It has a copper jacket covering a block of high-density polyethylene at the front and a lead disc at the base. The lead base looks like it makes up around 40% of the total volume of the bullet.

9x20mmR Type 05 Ammunition-1

 

According to the specifications also published in Chinese forums, the bullets weighs 123 gr and has a muzzle velocity of 721 fps. This works out to a muzzle energy of just 142 ft.lbs. This is the same muzzle energy as a high velocity .22 LR and less than a hyper velocity .22 LR. Penetration would be a lot worse than a .22 LR owing to the larger caliber and expansion of the polymer components.

The specifications …

type 05 chinese

English translation …

3. Primarily technical data.
Caliber: 9mm
Total cartridge length: ≤30mm
Total cartridge weight: ≤12.6g
Bullet weight: ≤8g
Muzzle velocity: 220m/s ± 10m/s
Average peak chamber pressure: ≤1100kg/cm³
Average accuracy(fired from a fixed mounted ballistic device, at 25m range): R50<2.0cm

The Chinese authorities may have had the best of intentions when they decided to arm the police with less lethal ammunition, but this decision may backfire on them (no pun intended). The Chinese Police officers will soon discover that neither of these two rounds will stop a criminal in his or her tracks. This will lead to police shooting their guns in situations that do not justify lethal force because they will assume that the bullets will not kill. This scenario has played out wherever Tasers have been introduced in the West. The difference being that Tasers are non-lethal. Bullets, rubber or lead, can be lethal. This is why we call them “less lethal”, rather than non-lethal. Col. Cooper was absolutely correct when he said nobody should point a gun at anyone or anything they are not willing to kill or destroy.

Thanks to Matrix3692 for the information and translation.


Steve Johnson

Founder and Dictator-In-Chief of TFB. A passionate gun owner, a shooting enthusiast and totally tacti-uncool. Favorite first date location: any gun range. Steve can be contacted here.


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  • iksnilol

    Tasers are lethal if they hit the heart.

    Pretty interesting choice of ammunition, they probably only want to wound people instead of killing them.

    • Steve (TFB Editor)

      I would say it would be pretty tricky for a taser to get through the Sternum.

      • DrewN

        Plenty of folks have died from tasers (547 since 01 according to the interwebz). A taser discharge should go straight to the review board just like a shooting and the ROEs should be just as strict in my opinion.

        • FourString

          Don’t forget the FN 303 used in Boston that killed an Emerson College undergrad.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Victoria_Snelgrove

          • J.T.

            I have fired a 303 and while the projectile velocity isn’t any greater than a typical paintball gun, they are much more dangerous due to the weighted projectile. FN also overstates how accurate they are. They are really accurate to about 25 yards but past that it degrades very quickly. Pepperballs may not be as accurate, but they are much safer. One might have messed up that girl’s eye, but it wouldn’t have gone into her skull and killed her like the 303 projectile did.

        • claymore

          But not from a shot to the heart.

        • Geodkyt

          If the ROE for a Taser should be as strict as for a firearm, there is no reason to issue Tasers — just shoot the suspect dead.

          I agree that Taser use should go to a review board similar to for use of a firearm, but the whole POINT of less lethal like Taser is so you have an option that can be used in that ROE gap between “harsh words” and “two JHPs to the upper torso”.

      • steveday72

        Tasers have resulted in a number of deaths primarily because they paralyze the body and cause people to fall – of course they can’t catch themselves because of the paralysis and many have struck their heads, causing a fatal blow on curbs, cement or other objects.

        Another problem is that people can often have medical conditions that obviously aren’t visible outside the body. Police officers don’t ask if people have anything wrong before tasing them …. they’ve even tased diabetics who were having diabetic ketoacidosis episodes!

        IMHO tasers are used far too frequently, probably as a result of poor training and poor judgement.

        • claymore

          So would you rather go back to the bad old days and have police go to impact weapons like batons?

          • Jow Blow

            Batons leave more marks and
            show when excessive force was used, juries are far more proned to take the victim side after they see the after
            math. Tasers hide excessive force. The pain doesn’t leave marks, great for the
            bad cops abusing people. Pain is pain, suffering is suffering, abuse is abuse
            but mankind is prjudice if they don’t see cast and damages like bruising they
            tend to dismiss claims. Invisible illness and/or injuries folks have it
            rough from other people because of judgement and their limited scope of only
            what they see.

            Part of the problem with Tasers beside what is mentioned above is the numerous variables.
            Everyone handles electrical charges differently. Even walking in highly
            magnetic fields can affect people. This works badly to both ends of the scale
            people die and people are un-phased (no pun intended) by tasers.

            A person who has been shocked a lot builds up a tolerance (side note stun guns
            are used in BD/SM circles as part of electrical play..idiots comes to
            mind).

            Ask any electricians (lineman can give you stories just a equally as Master
            Electricians in theater and concert touring, so can your construction worker
            whether it is house/commercial/industrial) and they will tell you Electricity
            is a very fickle mistress, she rivals Mother Nature and the Ocean for how her
            moods vary and what she will do… One person walks away while another gets
            fried crispy but lives or the person dies. All from almost identical, if not
            identical circumstances.

            We even have this shown with use of the electric chairs. Where different people
            have died at different rates in different levels of reactions.( Executions
            should be televised and not hidden, especially if the convict doesn’t object.
            but I digress…)

            Another big problem comes in when they deliver multiple
            charges/strikes/Tazerings, each hit overloads the bodies nuero- electrical
            system ( IE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroelectrodynamics ) which
            repeated voltage strikes are more deadly then being electrocuted with a steady
            hit.

            Think about how the doctors use the
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defibrillation , it is not a charge to start
            the heart but to stop and hopefully the shock it back into the right
            rhythm.

            So the counter science, and questions on safety are strong.

            That is not even getting into if there are similar effects like ETC (
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroconvulsive_therapy which is very
            controversial in and of itself) which falls under
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_brain_stimulation and doesn’t
            even get into the “”therapeutic”” effects of different
            types of
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcutaneous_electrical_nerve_stimulation
            . Generally they have theories but aren’t sure why things work, which ECT is
            being replace with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcranial_magnetic_stimulation
            . Think of it like going from trying to carve a thanksgiving turkey with a
            Philips head screw driver to a standard flat head…Still a long distance to
            get to the nice knife for carving that turkey…..but we’re getting better for
            progress. Memories are our most valuable possession, and shocks to brain can
            erase or break the connection to them.

            So we have electrical charges which be used in theory to help people but they
            also f**k people up a lot worse. Tasers fall into the same type of issues
            from taking someone down safely to harming them or worse killing them.

            Ironically the medical community claims “shock therapy “works (they
            claimed it worked on behaviors that aren’t disorders anymore, so what does that
            say… digressing sorry….), yet the same medical community deny injured
            workers who complain about mental changes after riding the lighting at work.
            Which you are confused recovering from a hit, first things up are survival
            (like breathing, vision comprehending pain, etc), you know you got hurt and
            don’t grasp threat and whose who/what around you luckily it usually a quick
            recovery. But those first seconds are like when you’re jolted awake suddenly,
            you don’t have barrings/sit rep.

            While the majority of the charge goes in a loop for the two prongs the whole body
            is energized. Hence the effects of all the muscles responding to being Tasered
            or from “shock therapy”. The difference (iirc) is 100k(k=1,000) of ohms on the
            outer level of skin/ epidermis and it dropping down to 10k of ohms for the sub
            dermis layers resistance, so depth of penetration of the barbs can factor in
            majorly. So can any cuts near, piercing, fresh tattoos nearly the area of
            impact.

            Which any electrical repair technician will tell you after a surge has hit a
            system the components have been damaged slightly even if they are still working
            and you may get weird effects. With bodies they can self heal but not every
            self repair and rerouting around damage tissue goes to the best out come.

            This doesn’t even take into effect miss-calibration for over or under voltage
            levels, discharge times and /or amps from the regulating electrical
            components from “Road Rash” . Wh9ich occurs from being worn, beaten,
            tossed around, banged, dropped, slammed into the ground /side of the car
            wrestling and every thing else that officers deal with for hits and impacts.
            Electronics that ride in special custom built road cases which have foam on the
            inside, traveling on air ride trailers, yet they still fall prey to road
            rash. Which are treat with far more care than officers treat their tasers.

            Think how much you protect your laptop. Yet still the hard drive, screen , and
            /or other circuit solder joints can get hammered from shock force of
            thousands of little impacts. Given there are few tricks to protect the
            components but tricks are limited.

            They say “the Taser does not cause damage to the nerves pathways”
            but in reality that can’t be proven, one way or the other yet, medically.

            Because if they had that technology to diagnose nerve damage properly then
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_limb & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_pain
            would be better understood and treated/eliminated(V.A. so needs this).
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibromyalgia would get the a**
            whoopun it deserves so badly. And a big slurp S**t and DIE to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paresthesia
            …. Not to mention all the people who live in chronic pain from nerve(s)
            damaged. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diabetic_neuropathy Bang!
            And the secondary better control of pain for age issues…. So all the branches
            of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuropathic_pain would get smacked down.
            Without the dope you up and/or poison the shit out of you
            medications current options. Major win/win & profit. The sheer
            volume of money made from that invention of diagnostic of nerves and the follow
            up treatments, would make all tasers sales profit the equivalent to
            what the makers would throw away in topless club as joke change….

            Our understanding of electricity is primitive, we claim we understand it but
            such claims were made in the 1940’s…We look back and laugh at how little the
            knew minus people like

            Nikola Tesla. Tasers will must likely be judged negatively in the long run, the
            excuse of we don’t have a better option is not acceptable. Adding more officers
            would help; in my city they did the dumbest thing by putting only one officer
            per car. A lot of good officers left the force over that. Lone officers might
            have to use a taser where two officers wouldn’t. Not to mention officer safety
            goes up on multiple person interactions.

            For now we need cameras on tasers(cut down on abuse and misues or over use),
            better rules on use and number of times they may be used, if the person is on
            the ground that is sufficient, tasering them again because they
            can’t comply with moving after just getting their muscles and brain scrambled
            from overload is not acceptable. Hold them down until back up arrives.

            If the person dies from a tasers being used, it is treated the same way if they
            had been shot them. Judge accordingly if lethal force would have been
            allowed. Put some fear and restraint in taser happy officers.

            Too many times, especially against the mentally ill Tasers are used when the
            officers could have gotten back up and pinned them with shield but didn’t want
            to take the time. Talking someone down seems to be a skill that is going away,
            which may fall on the officer fault and/or stupid bean counters who think
            calls should only take “X” amount of time…. The fact is mentally
            ill people who are not complying but not threatening or hostile are being
            tasered, so are people in diabetic induce coma states. A TASER IS NOT FOR
            YOU DIDN’T DO WHAT I SAID, SO I”M GOING PUNISH YOU. The over sight and
            accountability is abysmal in the public’s eye.

            We have a seriously problem, and the upside is lot of people are trying to
            find a way out of it but until then taser use is becoming epidemic proportions
            with little over site the excuse “…of the officer followed
            policy….”, if the policy allows someone to die your policy is badly need
            in repair. A few bruised ribs is better than death.

            Just like “less than lethal” Rounds, we’re heading n the right
            direction but they like everything else crammed on that officer’s belt (which
            are somehow guided into their lower ribcage with an accuracy the military
            wishes their missiles/bombs had), are tool not an end all solution.

          • claymore

            WHEW awesome rant that is so full of BS it isn’t worth my time to correct all the inconsistencies and falsehoods.

          • Geodkyt

            Batons are ALSO more likely to kill suspects, even if the cop is properly trained and makes every good faith attempt to use it properly.

            All it takes with a baton to kill someone is one misplaced strike because the suspect moved in an unanticipated direction or the cop slipped on wet pavement.

            People can die from APPROPRIATE application of pepper spray, if the target has certain medical conditions (often unknown even to the target!)

            Force can ALWAYS result in death, under specific enough situations. I’d rather be Tased than get a hickory shampoo or a Maglight Tattoo. Less chance of death or injury (well, injury worse than I’d likely give myself in a day of fishing).

  • flyingburgers

    You also need to consider that this will be deployed in very dense Chinese cities where the risk of injury to bystanders is high.

    • J.T.

      We should give these to the NYPD then.

  • jimmarch

    Somebody is afraid the police will turn on The Powers That Be, probably because the Powers are the biggest damn crooks in the country.

    • scw

      It could be just politics. The People Armed Police is the LE agency which is always armed with full power firearms. It’s more than likely they want to keep it that way.

  • Matrix3692

    I gather these infos from a Chinese forum, so there might be some inconsistencies with official published materials. But until i found those, these is the best I’ve.

    • Steve (TFB Editor)

      Thanks!

      • Matrix3692

        you’re welcome.

  • Hunter57dor

    Hunter57dor

    13 days ago

    just a winging it, back of the envelope calculation: the pics bullets
    look fairly small, probably nothing as heavy as the 158 grain .38
    special bullet we are used to. maybe a 124 grain projectile, moving at
    the stated 720 FPS. giving us: 142.70 ft/lbs of energy, a little less
    than a .380 auto. ouch. k, lets assume 158 grain: 181 ft/lbs of energy.
    still not fantastic.

    I doubt these officers are actually intended
    to be combat effective, more of a political show-off with something that
    underpowered.

    According
    to the specifications also published in Chinese forums, the bullets
    weighs 123 gr and has a muzzle velocity of 721 fps. This works out to
    a muzzle energy of just 142 ft.lbs. This is the same muzzle energy as a
    high velocity .22 LR and less than a hyper velocity .22 LR. Penetration
    would be a lot worse than a .22 LR owing to the larger caliber and
    expansion of the polymer components. – See more at:
    http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/05/08/exclusive-photos-curious-lethal-chinese-9x20mmr-type-05-police-ammunition/#sthash.eQReezGQ.dpuf

    NAILED IT.

    • Steve (TFB Editor)

      Good job!

    • http://suburbansdomain.blogspot.com Suburban

      I’m skeptical of the 123gr bullet weight. It doesn’t appear to be larger than a 115gr 9mm bullet, and more than half of it is plastic.

  • http://www.thegunzone.com/556dw.html Daniel E. Watters

    Nice to see that the PRC is respecting Tom Burczynski’s patents for the Federal EFMJ.

    • scw

      They will tell you its their design with a straight face.

  • Chris B

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38-200

    Indian is still using the service round. Tell me none will sneak through their customs into China ?

    The Cartridge, Pistol, .380″ Mk IIz is still produced by the Ordnance Factory Board in India, for use in revolvers of the Indian Army and some African countries.

    180/200gr projectile – its been used since 1922 by the British.

    Fiocchi make a 145gr pill doing 720fps.

  • abu fitna

    looks more like an attempt to create an EFMJ clone. Or worse yet, a copy of the Le Mas concept… perhaps they never read how it was debunked.

  • WaltherJJR

    Tasers are non-lethal???? Tell that to all the people killed by Tasers. Please do little research before spouting misinformation.

  • Lance

    Don’t care its still a low powered .38 COlt Ne police round. Time to arm them with there traditional Commie Makarovs Type 59 and Tokarev Type 54s. Far better round than old .38 CNP revolvers can bear in a fight.

    • Geodkyt

      They do not WANT their cops armed with something that is widely available — especially not widely available in their own country.

      Sure, old Brit service .380 (which this pretty much is, just downloaded to almost a “gallery” load) is still made. But not in available quantities IN CHINA like 9x18mm Makarov, which could be stolen from military stores.

  • gallan

    Makes sense. Ballistic research has proven at least in most pistol calibres that ‘stopping power’ is largely a myth is a purely a psychological phenomena. So although this bullet doesn’t penetrate, it still offers most of the benefit of a real bullet, which is largely psychological.

    • claymore

      Are you saying no bullet ever penetrates?

  • k

    all the Taser dis-info here is amazing, especially coming from the people who ridicule the media for calling guns “assault rifles” and mags “clips”. I had to be tased before I was allowed to carry a taser, most cops do, there are plenty of vids on youtube of police cadets getting tased, none of them died. An officer is trained to utilize a Taser on a non-compliant subject after first making a physical attempt to restrain them. Any injuries sustained from being tackled/wrestling/fighting are the same or worse that those possibly sustained from a fall after being tased.
    If an idiot, LEO or otherwise, does not use proper judgment when deploying a Taser, the idiot is to blame, not the Taser.
    If you do some research, most Taser related deaths are due to a combination of intoxication/substance abuse/stress/injury (excited delirium), the Taser just compounds the problem, though not so much more that a foot pursuit or wrestling match would/could do.

    • claymore

      Outstanding reply and the truth for a change.

    • John

      Many people have medical conditions which would make the use of a taser more lethal on them than a police academy recruit in a controlled environment who presumably also just passed a physical.

      • Geodkyt

        Still, the Taser presents a viable choice that has more range than a baton, and less lethality than either a Glock or a baton.
        You have much higher odds of dying from a baton strike (whether intentionally aimed at the worng spot, or just the cop misses his intended target and pops you on the head in the scuffle). You can die from APPROPRIATE application of pepper spary with certain (often unknown to even the sufferer) medical conditions.
        Yes, Tasers can be misapplied, and even abused for sadistic reasons. So can pepper spray, guns, batons, handcuffs, “open hand” techniques, etc. Force – ANY force – can end up with someone dying, under certain conditions.
        It’s the Indian, not the arrow — and Taser is a Hell of a useful arrow. Too useful at SAVING the lives of suspects to dump because of a few highly publicized cases of medical weirdness and a few highly publicized incidents of abuse.
        (No, I’m not a cop, never been a cop, not married to a cop. I just prefer facts to emotion.)

    • valorius

      Tazers are torture devices for sadists (aka- cops)

    • LetsTryLibertyAgain

      Tasers were introduced to provide an option between nothing and shooting someone. The idea being that some situations, particularly those involving intoxicated or mentally ill persons require a less lethal approach than a firearm. The article referred to Tasers as non-lethal, but given the number of deaths that have occurred as a result of using a Taser, it’s obviously a less lethal weapon, not a non-lethal weapon.

      Sadly, for many police officers, the Taser is a pain compliance device used on non-aggressive people to coerce them into complying with orders. Search YouTube for Taser and you’ll see grandmas being lit up with a Taser for not accepting a traffic ticket, etc.

      Also sadly, there seem to be more incidents where the police shoot mentally ill people despite having the Taser at their disposal. I watched a video yesterday where the police used a Taser on a guy who had locked himself in the bathroom and then shot him eleven times. Too often, the crime is mental illness and the sentence is immediate death. Many families wish they hadn’t called 911 to help deal with a mentally ill family member, but once that scenario is started, it’s impossible to ask the police to leave when things are obviously going the wrong direction.

  • Fruitbat44

    I suspect (hope) that someone knowing more about the subject than I do will correct me if(?) I’m wrong, but the non-non-lethal bullet; In theory wouldn’t the design mean that on impact the lead disc at the rear of bullet would keep moving forwards as the bullet decelerates causing the plastic in the nose of the bullet to expand making the bullet mushroom like a hollow-point? At least in theory.

    • AD

      I was just thinking that this looks a lot like the Federal Expanding Full Metal Jacket round (something like this http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/handgun.aspx?id=936).

      • HCM

        Yes this looks just like EFMJ – The federal 9mm EFMJ projectile weighs 105 grains, though at 1100 FPS the Federal 9×19 version obviously hits harder, I certainly would not consider the Chinese version a non lethal round. it’s not much by U.S. law Enforcement standards, but.32 acp, .380 acp and 38 S&W have seen decades of police service around the world.

  • I Sell You Bullets, CHEAP!

    You guys are over thinking this. This is China. Polyethylene is cheaper than lead.

  • dan citizen

    This article was great until it opened a big can of stupid at the end. The “less lethal leads to reckless use” theory is pretty crazy. Excessive/indiscriminate lethal AND nonlethal weapon use is rampant in the US right now, for complicated reasons unrelated to the rise in use of tasers.

    China is following a path europe trod in police weaponry until fairly late in the 20th century. Remember that for decades .32 and .380 were the standard police cartridges for most of europe and did just fine.

    Priorities vary in different cultures. If low penetration, low bystander risk and low lethality outweigh sheer joules of power, this caliber/weapon is a reasonable result.

    Look at the shots fired vs hit ratio of typical european agencies and you will be impressed. Examine the same figures for the US and you will be ashamed. The incidents in the USA where officers empty their guns at a criminal and end up hitting bystanders or their fellow officer would not be tolerated in most countries.

    • Cynic

      Look at the uk where In the 70 and 80s the army became very cavalier with non lethal weapons because of the failures to stop using approved tactics so they usd tactics which compensated for the failings and people were seriously hurt and died

      • dan citizen

        I agree, but during this time they were also cavalier with lethal weapons (ie ireland).

        Both the UK and the US have seen dramatic abuses of nonlethal weapons. US riot control officers routinely misuse weapons in ways that should result in felony convictions (Officer Polk at UC Davis) but do not, yet in civilian hands the same actions would result in lengthy incarceration.

        Also there are many attempts to use nonlethal weapons in such a way as to kill, such as tasering a hogtied person 25 times until they die, or using 35mm gas launchers for direct fire.

        • Cynic

          I wouldn’t say they were cavalier with lethal weapons in ireland just they were deploying them rapidly. Cavalier is the way I have witnessed people shooting each other with them in training areas. Or playing russian roulette with rubber bullets.

          The u Davis thing was the spraying of protesters rot? Where the press and media bias set the tone on day one and any investigation that didn’t end with his head on a platter was wrong regardless. I cant comment on the actual event just my view of thw way it turned into a witchhunt baying for blood before any investigation or discussion of anything other than the 10 seconds of deployment the media show. Or am I thinking of a different incident?

          The uk has a worrying disconnect between less lethal jn government hands and les lethal in public hands. If i walked onto the street with what a police officer carried for their protection I would go down for a long time. Baton = around 3 years as it’s a banned weapon and a can of pepper spray would lead to a section 5 firearms act conviction. Section 5 being centrefire semi rifles, all pistols, full auto firearms, any fin stabilised rocket round, grenade launchers and poison darts. Tasers are also sec five and can only be carried by traind firearms officers.

          Now my base theory is that if I felt the need to carry a sec 5 weapon for protection given that I would go down for the same time for either and both tasers and cs are not guaranteed stop devices, I would carry a handgun. Skip less lethal and go straight for the best defensive chance at stopping an assailant

  • Matthew Groom

    .22LR is perfectly capable of killing people, and does so quite often. Also, Tasers ARE LETHAL, especially when they are used with the assumption that they are “non-lethal”; any offensive tool has the potential to be lethal, even when used correctly, or it would be useless.

  • LetsTryLibertyAgain

    I wonder if this policy change has anything to do with the recent news story of a woman who was a Chinese street vendor being harassed by the police, a man making a video of them and being beaten to death with a sledge hammer. The news of his death swept social media and the police found themselves surrounded by an angry flash mob. The police barricaded themselves in their van but the mob broke into the van and beat the police to death. When the ambulance arrived to help the police, the mob flipped it onto its side. Eventually, a large SWAT team arrived and the crowd dispersed. State controlled news agencies reported that most of the police were treated and released, and a couple were still in the hospital, but judging from the pictures on the internet they were very dead.

    Maybe the police felt they needed some form of firearm for protection, so mobs would be less likely to attack the police?

    • But a Bing but a boom

      If someone wearing a heavy winter jacket was shot by one of those, he might be more likely to attack the police who shot him. It would make him mad.

  • brainy37

    Thick walls and top? Yeah, this looks like it’s a rip off of the Federal EFMJ rounds. Those are expanding rounds except that the upper portion flattens and squeezes everything to the sides. Cross section doubles after a few inches of penetration and total penetration meets FBI standards. EFMJ rounds are substantially easier to make than most hollowpoints since the poly-mix can be preformed and dumped right into the copper jacket.

    One thing to note. The rounds will not get clogged up by heavy clothing unlike hollowpoints. But the anemic speed means they aren’t going to be penetrating very deep. More than likely they’re worried about over penetration through walls and made this a very close range round.

    Sucks to be the cops that have to carry this stuff. Since they’re just now allowed to carry guns I’m willing to bet that the government doesn’t yet trust them with anything too powerful. UK cops are sometimes issued firearms but they usually get automatics and run heavier 9mm loads.

  • pismopal

    Its a start. You do not equip people with marginal, at best, firearm familiarity with high tech, high capacity pistols.