Texas DPS Suspends Use of S&W M&P Pistols

Texas DPS

The Texas Department of Public Safety stopped issuing and training with the recently acquired M&P9 pistols from Smith & Wesson.

Texas DPS picked up 120 of the M&P9 pistols with the intent of issuing them to the current recruit class that began training in January.  However, the Texas Tribune reported that feeding and ejection issues, combined with “slight movement” in the guns caused agency to pull the weapons and issue older SIG P226 pistols.

The Texas Tribune does not explain the slight movement other than to say is was measured at less than 10 microns (0.01mm) and could affect accuracy.  The paper does say the movement developed after the firing of about 3,000 rounds.

It does not appear that the Texas DPS released any quantitative data on the number of malfunctions experienced, nor if the problems were with only specific guns or with a certain kind of ammunition.




Richard Johnson

An advocate of gun proliferation zones, Richard is a long time shooter, former cop and internet entrepreneur. Among the many places he calls home is http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/.


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  • Jeff Smith
    • Jeff Smith

      Any math people out there? How much can less than 0.01mm affect practical accuracy of a handgun?

      • MemorableC

        0.62mm at 10 meters.

        1.54 at 25 meters, so not at all.

        • Jeff Smith

          Thanks!

          • MemorableC

            No problem, this is using the specified M&P sight base of 6.4 inches so it would be different on other guns.

      • Paul Hurst

        .01mm movement on a 4.25inch BBL results in 2 seconds of arc. In other words, 1/30 of an MOA.

      • TB

        That will depend on where the 0.01 mm are. Moving parts in a gun needs quite big tolerances relative to each other, but on other parts of the gun there can be quite tight tolerance requirements. Even a tiny movement in such a place might possibly cause, for instance, the barrel to be displaced a much greater distance, thereby significantly affecting accuracy.

        • Tucson_Jim

          Such as at the breech lock-up wrt the slide. Also, jamming and extraction problems may result.

          The main issue, though is the general credibility of the manufacturer’s Quality Control and consistency of manufacturing processes.

          • mikewest007

            Neat. Any info if the current production is just as good? Because SIG USA announced a massive sale of their pistols recently.

          • Tucson_Jim

            Mike, I wrote you a 8 paragraph response… but, it was over the top, so I deleted it…

            I own three P226’s, and a SIG 556 Classic… (1992, 2004, 2009, and 2009). They are all reliable, rugged, comfortable, have great ergonomics and glass-smooth triggers, they’re extremely accurate, and, very easy to dissassemble to clean.

            An old, ugly, second-hand, hardly-ever-even-used police carry pistol with less than 1000 rounds through it can be gotten for around $500. If you like the .45 ACP, get a SIG P220, if you prefer the 9mm, get a SIG P226. Avoid the .40 S&W, the recoil is too sharp for 80% of the population to shoot well, and hard on springs and guide-rails. One of my buddies just bought a P227 and she loves it… she’s a 1-1/2″ group at 15 yards with a snub-nosed revolver, shooter.

            Don’t take my word for it. Do some homework… you can start with the Wikipedia entry on the P220, and read tons of online magazine reviews. Price ranges can be referenced on Gunbroker.com and compared to the pix of the item. But, in-general, the price range for an “As-New with Box, Manual, and Magazines” 1990’s P226 will be around $650, while a scruffy critter like my “Shadow” is about $500, and an absolutely disgusting mess that would be embarassing to be seen with, but, still works great, will be about $350.

          • mikewest007

            So, in short, it’s worth it.
            Wish I was in the US. ;)

          • Tucson_Jim

            Yes, absolutely.
            Come home to U.S.

          • Jeremy Star

            I love when people making sweeping, BS statements with nothing to back them up but their own personal bias. 80% of the population indeed.

          • Anonymous Coward

            No “stored kinetic energy”? How does your magazine work?

          • Mark

            Smartass xD

            You forgot the small matter of the recoil spring keeping the slide and barrel locked closed too!

          • albaby2

            Yawnnnnnnnnnnnn

        • dp

          You are mixing tolerances with clearances, they are not one and the same. Clearances are needed for function, tolerances for making parts. However, tolerances should be except for critical fits lot smaller than clearances (while cost rises exponentially with precision of manufacture).
          Finally, the accuracy or function in general must be assured due to design conception, not by total of clearance (play). Even pretty ‘wiggly’ barrel can shoot well since at time of pressure peak everything goes solid. It has to fall, time after time into same position.

      • Matt

        It’s impossible to say what effect “10 microns” would have on a gun’s accuracy because the article doesn’t specify what was being measured.

        • Dean Guilberry

          Not only didn’t they not say what was being measured but after only 3000 rounds there was unexpected play what would happen after many more rounds. 3000 isn’t that many.

    • FourString

      that makes me think of the angry birds treaty video where the red bird says “say whaaat! D:<" "fock ogff!"

  • al

    10 microns of “slight movement”? What a load of BS.

    • supergun

      I have a Smith and Wesson M&P 357 with the 40 cal. barrel. Love this gun. The police is Koo Koo. I also have a Sig P238. One bad pistol.

      • Tucson_Jim

        The SIG P238 is the Colt Mustang. SIG bought the manufacturing license and tried to make some improvements, but, it’s still, pretty-much a 1911 that’s been a victim of, “Honey, I shrunk the gun”.

        It’s too small for comfort with a 9mm Kurtz (.380 Auto) cartridge, lousey sights, single-action trigger on a pocket or purse gun, ergonomics suck… But hey, Colt wasn’t doing anything with the design, and SIG believed that there was a market for it, and voila, there was!

        1911 fans love them… but, they love Harley-Davidsons too…

        • supergun

          I own a Harley. The Sig 238 is my favorite to carry. With the G2 Research 380 in lock and load mode, you have plenty of firepower. It is fun to shoot. The night sights light up the bedroom at night. At 15 oz it is light. Very accurate when you practice and get to know the gun. And like the Harley, the 1911 is the most beautiful pistol ever made.

          • Tucson_Jim

            I’m a very low-key kinda guy… I drive a pretty bland and boring, silver, four-door family sedan (that goes 155 and does the quarter mile in 14.3 sec.)

            And I also believe the 2004 SIG P226 without the Picatinny rail is the most beautiful pistol ever made; sleek, uncluttered, sweeping lines, understated, basic-black, and furiously effective… I wear mine concealed.

            My aesthetic taste in bikes is the 1993 Kawasaki ZX-11…
            sleek, uncluttered, sweeping lines, understated, basic-black, and furiously effective…

            You can see each one here, if interested: http://i769.photobucket.com/albums/xx339/oddjob1911/3514db54-dcb2-405d-8178-f740e2da102e_zpsc988bdfa.jpg

            http://foto.scigacz.pl/cache/imgs/_w750/gallery/aktualnosci/Kawasaki_Ninja_ma_25_lat/Kawasaki_ZX11.jpg

            Hey, that’s cool, the pix show up when I put the links in… didn’t know we could do that.

          • supergun

            That is what makes America the greatest place to live. I use to ride a Goldwing. Smoothest bike ever rode. When I test drove the 98 Harley Springer Heritage, was unsure about the slight vibration (now I know why the girls like the Harleys), but I bought it anyway. Man,,,,the ride feel, the smell, the sound,,,there is nothing out there like this. People are always making me humble drooling over this bike. Never could ride the Goldwing after the Springer came into my life. I have 10 handguns, each serve a purpose, but for some reason I strap on that iddy bitty Sig 238 to my side each morning. Man, I love this pistol. Oh, about my wife,,,,dam,,,I married her when she was 17,,,,,42 years ago.

          • Tucson_Jim

            I used to work with a guy that took one of the engine mount bolts out to increase the vibration…

            Guns and women… when you find one you love… ya keep ‘em by your side!

            Notice I didn’t mention anything about what anybody puts between their legs…

          • supergun

            I know,,,the NSA is listening. I put 2 things between her legs – me and a Smith and Wesson M&P 357/40. Man is happy when he has gun, harley, and woman. Maybe a miniature pincher.

          • Tucson_Jim

            Just goes to show you… a woman that’ll sit on a Harley… will put anything between her legs…

            Damn, it just slipped-out, I’m sorry… really I am…

            I’ve never shot the 238 or the Mustang. I have a friend here in Tucson that has the Mustang, and I think it would be neat to get a chance to compare the two side by side.

            I tell folks that are fond of the .45 ACP to go out and try a SIG P220 or P227… You have to pay a lot of money and do a lot of work on a 1911 to get it to be as reliable and accurate as an off-the-shelf SIG P220, 226, or 228. Redesign of the feed ramp, elmination of the muzzle bushing, and introduction of the “take-down” lever are SIG’s contributions to the design of Browning-based semi-auto hand guns that helped redirect the industry.

            When the US DoD performed the side-arms trials in the mid-80’s, the SIG P226 and Beretta 92 were the two top performers in the pack. The 1911 didn’t fare so well. SIG didn’t have significant US production capability and lost out on the high-volume contract, but, all the top-tier government agencies that get to choose their own sidearms (instead of having some politician choose for them based on cost) use the P226 and P228… that, and the number of gun shop owners who carry SIGs convinced me to buy a P226. Now I have three, all of them just basic, plain-Janes. The first time I took one to the range, I looked at the target and said, “Holy $#!+! Am I THAT good ! ?”

            I honestly believe that if you do a lot of shooting, the price differential between 9mm ammo and either .380 Auto or .45 ACP ammo will pay for a decent used 9mm pistol… that’s something to consider, too.

          • supergun

            There are some fine women out there that will ride a Harley with their man and no one else. I have the Taurus Model 92 9mm that looks just like the Beretta 92. Made on the same machine as the Beretta. Personally think the Beretta 92 is the most beautiful of all pistols along with the 1911. Paid only $329 new on the Taurus 92 with lifetime warranty. I also have a Desert Eagle 1911 45acp that shoots bullet holes in bullet holes first time I shot it. And I am not that good of a shot. I had a Ruger LC9 but I sold it and bought the Springfield XDs 45acp which is a Dragon and fun to shoot. Weighs only 21.5 oz. But the next pistol I would like to get is the Sig Sauer P239 9mm. Never thought I would want another 9mm, but that is one fine nine. I am going to check out the P220, 226,and 238 to see why you like them so much. Talk about a pistol that like the Beretta and Sig in durability is the CZ75 which I don’t have,,,,,,yet.

          • Tucson_Jim

            Yeah, I was looking at a CZ75 Sunday. I was paying my respects in my favorite Temple of Liberty and Independence, and this particular shop gets a LOT of like-new used firearms, and, they had a compact carry CZ75 and a full-length one, both looked brand-new.

            We got my g/f a like-new Ruger SR22, it IS a nicely made pistol, accurate, adjustable sights, and fun to shoot… it’s like holding a melted Hershey bar in your hand. It can also be dry-fired, which is an exceptional benefit for a novice like my spousal-alternative.

            I believe one of my friends had to send his XD-45 back for a recall… his was the compact… might want to check that out. Your 238 and the Colt Mustang both had issues with the little crescent-shaped finger being properly positioned when putting the slide back on. Not a recall, just a warning, the info is on the SIG website. I got nailed by the Remington 700 XMP fire-control recall, which my rifle actually doesn’t even have, that should be interesting to deal with. I’d rather keep my Walker system.

            I just can’t warm up to the 239… almost bought one a few years ago for the g/f… but didn’t, and can’t explain why. There are single-stack P6’s and P225’s as well, that I have seen for dirt-cheap on Widener’s. But, I’d still trend towards the P228 or M11 with their double-stacks. All the 239, 225, and 228/9 save is 0.01″ overall height, and 1″ oa length. The single-stack 239 and P6/P225 save about 0.3″ overall width/thickness.

            I’m 6’1″ and about 195 lbs, and can conceal a full-size P226 fairly well without much effort. Worn in a Galco Fletch high ride holster, I forget it’s even there.

          • supergun

            I sent my XDs to Springfield on the recall issue. Nothing was wrong with the pistol. Just wanted to be sure. They sent it back in fine shape with an extended magazine to boot. I had given my wife the Ruger LCR 38 but the recoil was a little to much for her. So I got her the Ruger LCR 22 Magnum. She loves that revolver. Always nice to have a revolver. You know that thing will shoot. I ran across a Bersa Thunder PLUS which holds 15 bullets (looks like the Walter) I call it the 007 gun for her. I love that 380. And I just can’t leave out the factory engraved Ruger LCP 380. Beautiful gun for a woman. That Ruger SR22 is a fine pistol. I heard that Ruger will be making a 22 mag. off that frame. I want one.

        • supergun

          Many guns are made under the Colt name. Like my dealer said, “Colt has made a killing off their name”.

  • big daddy

    I just bought one and so far it has no issues with the many different types of 9mm ammo I have used. Only fired a few hundred rounds with it though. Settled on Critical Duty 135 grain +P Horandy for now. Will be trying a few more though. I don’t understand what they are saying, slight movement of what?

    • Siobhan_McCallen

      The reporter botched the word. I’m pretty sure they mean “SIGHT movement” — as in, the sights are loose, affecting accuracy. But why not simply service the sights, if they’re loose?

      • Tucson_Jim

        As an experienced manufacturing engineer with a background in aerospace and defense contracts, as well as vendor development and management, when one dimension does not meet spec, the entire LOT gets rejected, because it casts doubt on the efficacy of the “Qualified Vendor”‘s process and quality control systems. It’s not about the .01mm, it’s about the lack of the finished product meeting the specified design intent. IF THAT .01mm IS NOT IMPORTANT – CHANGE THE DAMN DESIGN !!!

        How many of you engineers out there know that the article actually meant “Sight”? How many of you engineers out there actually know which dimension is wrong? How many of you engineers out there actually know what the design intent is, and that it is actually o.k. to not meet spec?

        Why buy hundreds of new Smith and Wesson pistols when you already have thousands of SIGs available, each with fewer than 6000 rounds through them???

        • Bill

          Sort of what he said. Agencies are switching pistols with far more frequency than they did a decade or two ago. I’ve got and carry both, but really don’t have a preference. The issue should be: did the guns meet the specifications set by DPS or do they have a fault that takes them out of spec.

          I’m not a Texas taxpayer, and I know that the fiscal realities of agency sales are light years from that in retail, but jumping models shouldn’t be done lightly. For large agencies the cost of leather alone can outpace the purchase price of the new pistol, and then there.s the overtime pay for the troops covering shifts while others are in 3 days of transition training….

          • big daddy

            I am a Texas tax payer every time I buy something it’s taxed.
            If they meant sight they should change it. I don’t think they did.

        • RBR

          Tuscon_Jim, I understand what you are saying, but I rather doubt that anyone would have measured whatever part wore the 0.01mm unless there were other problems which caused them to start measuring everything. This is just my impression, but I get the impression that DPS’s acceptance testing (if there was any at all) was deficient or these problems would have appeared before these arms were issued to trainees.

          S&W’s QC is obviously deficient or these things not only would not have shipped, but the production line would have been stopped until the problem was corrected so that they did not turn out a bunch of product that was not up to specifications (“you can’t inspect quality in”). The as yet unspecified component that experienced the unusual wear may not have been properly heat treated or otherwise hardened. I experienced this with another arms manufacturer a good many years ago during a production transition to an improved model. They quite literally lost a page in the manual during the transition where the hardening of a high wear surface was supposed to occur and it, not surprisingly, wore at an extraordinary rate because it was not hardened at all.

  • Jay Clayton

    There’s not even a practical way to measure this. Somebody has a math problem OR just liked SIGs better.

    “I like SIGs, but I hate math.”

    0.01 mm = 1/50th the width of a piece of mechanical pencil lead.
    A small bit of dust or any slight measuring process variance would cause this.

    • TB

      Not true. There are mechanical means to easily measure thousands of a mm, or 0.001 mm. And it’s even easier with no contact methods, like using a laser measuring system.

      • Jay Clayton

        Have you SEEN the profile of sights? It’s rough & ugly up close. Sure, I’m going to use a CMM to measure 0.005mm (minimum tolerance to define 0.01 mm variation). It’s ridiculous – like using a tape measure to plan a cross country trip.

        You COULD measure it, but the “movement” is minuscule compared to the inherent variation of the machining and mounting processes.
        The point of the article is that this is bad science/engineering and something else is at play.

        • TB

          I didn’t see any mentioning of sights in the above post. I was just responding to your claim that there is no practical way to measure a deviation of 0.01 mm.

  • mlk18

    Sounds like the Texas DPS needs to put a little more focus on instructor training and ability and a little less blame on equipment. This stuff is like hitting a pop fly to center and blaming the bat.

    • JumpIf NotZero

      I’ve trained with police and SWAT for the past two years… This is absolutely the case.

  • K. Cooley

    Maybe they should try properly cleaning and maintaining the firearms. And if there is an issue with the guns, why not send them back to S&W for servicing or replacement? If these were being used in training, one can only imagine how horrible the guns were treated.

  • Xavier Ramos Santoni

    My 1993 P226 has more than 12K rounds not even 1 FTF FTE. Something my Glock’s or M&P’s Can’t say. Why fix what is not broken. Ps The P226 is way more accurate than both.

    • kyle

      I have put 1k through my m&p so far with no jams however 2k through my 226 because it just shoots that nicely ( 2007 Tac ops p226 german made). No Failures of any kind with the p226 as well even with competition springs.

    • allannon

      And my 2005 XD has somewhat more than 10k rounds (I’m on my 11th lot, with odd single boxes here and there), with no issues. It’s also cheaper.

      Just because it ain’t broke doesn’t mean it can’t be fixed. ;)

      • Xavier Ramos Santoni

        Go to Google and write “Springfield XD” And then google puts the option “Recall”, Try that with the P226 the options are “Navy SEALS” “ELITE” and a lot of other cool stuff. XD’s are cool as an option, just like masturbation but the P226 is like hardcore rough sex with your enemy’s wife! No comparison kid.

        • allannon

          You mean like all the results for “sig p226 recall”?

          And the lack of adoption of newer sidearms is hardly telling, since they’re still working through the stock they purchased in the late ’90s.

          • JumpIf NotZero

            No matter which of you two win this pissing contest… You both lose.

          • allannon

            Thanks. I’m sitting stuck at my desk trying _not_to think about peeing…

            :-/

          • Xavier Ramos Santoni

            I did and this is what i got!! “I don’t know how many thousands of rounds went though both of the P226
            pistols during their service lives, but I can’t recall a single
            malfunction during the years I had either. I bought the second one when
            the department switched from 9mm to .40, and it still shoots great.” Nice try kid…

            Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/02/25/gun-test-sig-sauer-mk25p226/#ixzz2zetOt2Zz
            http://dailycaller.com/2013/02/25/gun-test-sig-sauer-mk25p226/

          • Sadler

            Gotta love cherry-picking, huh? Sig has their share of problems just like every other manufacturer known for making reliable products. So stop jacking yourself off and come back to reality, bud.

          • Xavier Ramos Santoni

            I’m not talking about Sigs, I’m talking only about the P226.

          • Sadler

            My point still stands. Even the most reliable of tools have their issues. People had quite a bit of trouble with the P226 in the early to mid 2000’s.

          • Xavier Ramos Santoni

            The only “Issue” with the P226 is the retail price.

          • Tucson_Jim

            Not a problem, work a second job… get your priorities straight.

          • Xavier Ramos Santoni

            I’m a Dentist i need 3 jobs just to pay my Student loans…

          • Tucson_Jim

            You’ll get there… in 15 years, you’ll have a Jaguar, two homes, and an airplane…

            Keep your wings level and the pointy end forward.

  • El Duderino

    I think a SIG manufacturer’s rep put a little more than “10 microns” into someone’s wallet.

    • Tucson_Jim

      No, actually… that is the commonly-accepted policy of Glock… hookers, expensive dinners, holiday vacations, etc…

      • FourString

        whoa whut o.o

      • El Duderino

        Not surprised at all. Kickbacks and favors are heavily policed at the low levels of government, but at the top…no one’s watching the watchers.

      • Blaser270

        You are so right about that. Glock bought off every jackass they could as they sold their junk guns to the police departments and convinced guys that are clueless that they had the superior weapon now. Superior to a rock…

        • Tucson_Jim

          Tell me that’s your picture and you really DO know about guns… and, I may have found my next ex-wife… ; )

          If that’s you, then, you are stunningly beautiful… and if it’s just your avatar, you’ve got great taste, but have been spending too much time looking for an avatar.

        • MichaelBolton

          I guess that’s why so many FLEO, LEO, HRT, CAG, and DEVGRU use Glocks.

    • albaby2

      Remember S&Ws butt kissing of the Clinton Administration when they announced their “smart gun”? I’ve had no use for them since.

      • Blaser270

        The S&W that was around then pretty much went broke. They sold to Safety Hammer out of Arizona for pennies on the dollar. The company has been rebuilt and is now a publicly held company. The guys who made those decisions have long been run off and the company makes some very good guns today. This Sig deal is nothing but politics as usual.

  • GuidoFL

    One would “think” that the manufacture would do extensive long term tests before selling these items ?

    .010 or ten thousands , hair on heads usually .003 .004 thick.

  • Random

    Slight movement? Oh, you mean sight movement
    Lrn2spell

    • ChrisB

      My guess is the newspaper people have no idea what “sight movement” is and when they saw it, they assumed “slight movement” and so that’s what they printed.

  • Mustridemore

    They must have the worlds greatest marksmen for them to be affected by a sight moving 10 microns.

  • Gunsafetypro

    I see the S&W’s come through class pretty often. They are usually NIB or basically in new condition for the majority of the students who use them. They aren’t my favorite pistol but they seem to be serviceable. I would be less worried about a “slight” sight movement and more interested in the feeding and ejection issues.

    • RBR

      Curiosity, what is your favorite pistol? I have not shot the M&P, but it seems to have a good grip angle.

  • Frank Flowers

    I blame Obama for the slight movement on the M&P’s!!

    • joelferguson

      fyi, rule #1 of this blog, no politics.

      • MattInTheCouv

        Rule #2… Learn to identify sarcasm

        • joelferguson

          Rule #1, no politics or I would of had to say no, blame Bush. That’s what we’re supposed to do.

          • MattInThCouv

            I bet you are a joy at parties.

          • joelferguson

            Well, I always do bring the beer bong….

  • JumpIf NotZero

    1/10th of a human hair thickness movement huh?

    I’m going to guess something was lost in translation there! I’m going to put the number of places to have the ability to measure 10 microns of movement in Texas to cover absolutely zero police or news organizations.

  • TigerStripe
  • Josh Creel

    I was wondering if the term should be “slight” or “sight”. If the sights moved, after how many rounds? I think the sights moving after only a few rounds would be a huge issue. The article stated 3K rounds fired, and that equals about 50 standard qualification courses.

  • Core

    Sig is a higher quality product used by specops, why would you downgrade to begin with? They typically cost hundreds more. Their is also the Glock optio, or Springfield XD, in the lower price range.

    • TexTopCat

      Sig has a higher price and probably a higher cost to manufacture. However, that does not mean it is “a higher quality product”. I think that Glock or the M&P certainly are both as good as or better than the Sig for service weapons. (IMHO the Springfirled XDx is a bit lower). There also may be a “bragging” difference between .357Sig and ordinary 9mm.

  • dp

    Lol… “slight movement”, huh? How accurately do you think that plastic frame can be made? If it is +/- 0.1 (+/-0.004″) per length of one inch it is very good. On top of it you have heat expansion (so much more in Texas’ heat) about as much. And, on top of it dissimilar materials have different expansion….I do nor see why to worry; just keep pulling trigger.

  • Ted Unlis

    The malfunctions included a high percentage of various failure to feed problems, but the malfunctions that exposed troubling quality control issues were front sights coming off and
    at least five slides flying off the frame.

    Allegedly the ranking firearms training officer (who allegedly also happens to be a competitive shooter sponsored by S&W) sold the adoption of the M&P 9 to DPS headquarters based on popular gun industry talking points that suggest the newer hotter 9mm law enforcement ammo from Winchester will be just as effective as the Speer 357 Sig 125gr Gold Dot hollow point DPS currently issues (I call BS on that). Apparently DPS settled for the milder Winchester 9mm +P Ranger ammo and not the higher velocity Ranger +P+ round.

    Word is the DPS Director is highly displeased with the situation. It remains to be seen if S&W can salvage a deal that ultimately would have generated huge long term sales. The loss of such a prestigious tacit endorsement if DPS successfully adopted the M&P is absolutely devastating for S&W. Remedying the quality control issue will be easy compared to what it will take to win back the trust of TXDPS and overcoming the embarrassing PR disaster.

    Here is an excerpt of a memo to the Troops from Texas DPS Director Steve McCraw;

    “As you are aware I approved the adoption of the Smith and Wesson M&P 9mm as the Department’s service handgun beginning with Recruit School A14. However, we have been experiencing malfunctions during Recruit School firearms training, which is unacceptable, and I have suspended the transition to the Smith and Wesson M&P 9mm.”

  • Gary Laffoon

    Odd. My M&Ps were always reliable. I have shot thousands of rounds through M&Ps in competition without fail. And glocks and M&Ps are always quicker on followup shots. I’ll stick; with my M&Ps.

  • coachpan

    2 M&P’s that work flawlessly !

  • Blaser270

    Sounds like the old school Sig lovers came up with an excuse to re-issue their guns. The amount of so called ‘movement’ is bullshit. Obviously they never shot a 1911 45.

  • Cavscout

    So why worry? Police usually put very few rounds down range. Something I don’t appreciate about the M&P though, is if your holster puts any pressure on the slide, it rattles around like crazy. Noisy and annoying.

  • Hank Seiter

    10 microns? Buwahahahaha. I’m surprised normal wear wasn’t more than that! BTW, I seriously believe that the average Texas lawman’s own inherent inaccuracy would mask any real world issue that 10 microns of “movement” could induce. I doubt serious steel challenge plate shooters would notice the difference. I’ve been in the shooting sports for over 40 years though long range military rifle shoots are my first love.

  • Ted Unlis

    Gary Laffoon & coachpan,you are both oblivious to the facts, the reliability issue has nothing to do with flaws in the design of the M&P pistol, it does however have everything to do with recent and unacceptable S&W quality control failures that allow guns built outside of design specs and tolerances to leave the factory. Luckily my M&P CORE has functioned flawlessly, but that doesn’t change the cold hard facts that M&P 9’s shipped to DPS had an unacceptably high percentage of defective guns in the batch, shame on S&W for letting that happen.

    Blaser270 you don’t know what you’re talking about because the ranking Lt in charge of DPS firearms training and the range near Florence TX is a S&W sponsored shooter and has been pushing hard for 3 or 4 years to drop Sig for S&W. A lot of folks in the Dept believe that DPS should have adopted the Glock 31.

    Hank Seiter, the 10 micron bit is pure BS and had nothing to do with the Director suspending adoption of the M&P9, front sights and slides flying off when the gun goes bang were the two most serious and absolutely unacceptable failures that caused DPS to pull the plug on S&W.