What is REALLY Going on with 5.45 Ammo

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There has been a lot of hub-ub going on over the weekend on 5.45×39 ammunition. Originally brought to light by James Yeager and then by Tim at the Military Arms Channel, ATF Form 6’s (Request for Import) that include the mild steel core 7n6 ammunition are currently being “held”.

You may have seen the e-mail below:

atf_letter

We have been reaching out to our industry partners and indications are that applications are indeed being “held” (note: not denied) until the BATF can get its story straight. We are reaching out to the ATF directly to get word straight from them.

The e-mail is strange, as 5.45 pistols have been on the market since at least 2010 (Robinson XCR and other AK-74 variants).

If this e-mail holds water, it would mean that 7n6 would be banned from future import (like mil-surp 7.62 in 1992). For us 5.45 shooters, 7n6 is the cheapest stuff on the 5.45 market and would quickly evaporate the economic benefit of 5.45. (I just got a Adams Arms 5.45 upper in for review, nuts!).

GunWebsites does an excellent video brief:

Any ban on 7n6 would not ban 5.45, it would just ban the 7n6 rounds only. Brown Bear, Red Army, and other com-bloc importers using standard lead bullets would not be affected.

Stay tuned. We will report back when we have hard facts.



Nathan S.

One of TFB’s resident Jarheads, Nathan now works within the firearms industry. A consecutive Marine rifle and pistol expert, he enjoys local 3-gun, NFA, gunsmithing, MSR’s, & high-speed gear. Nathan has traveled to over 30 countries working with US DoD & foreign MoDs.

Nathan can be reached at Nathan.S@TheFirearmBlog.com

The above post is my opinion and does not reflect the views of any company or organization.


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  • Burst

    I think there’s a silver lining here, as the law will at least be enforced equally, and hopefully overturned at some later date.

    My position is that importation of any ammunition ought to be unrestricted.

    • Karina

      purchase, manufacture and importation of anything related to firearms* <= ftfy

  • Troy

    A shot in the gut of gun owners using the Russian fiasco as an excuse? Sounds like Obama. I do not believe in coincidences. Has anyone ever committed a crime with a pistol carbine with steel core ammo?

    • El Duderino

      For some reason, law enforcement and the feds are terrified of things like suppressors and steel core “armor piercing” ammo. Regardless of actual usage.

      • The Hun

        They don’t want an even playing field-“Do as we say not as we do”.

      • BryanS

        Correct me if I am wrong, but isnt that the point?

      • FLSheepdog

        Hey, don’t lump LE (at least those of us that work for a living, not Majors and Chiefs who are more politician than LEO) into the “terrified of things like x” category. I and most of my co-workers are very pro-2a. If I can be issued it at work, I think you should be able to own it too.

        • Eric Jackson

          Question is have you ever, or would you ever arrest for weapons possession? I haven’t met an officer yet that has said no to that.

          • panopticonisi

            great question. i’m eager to hear the response.

      • Richard Blaine

        In this particular case the BATFE is just enforcing the law congress wrote as written.

    • The Hun

      If Obammy was serious he would have completely banned Russian ammo by now. This is just typical ATF and one of their dickhead petty power plays.

    • n0truscotsman

      I’ve used 5 different search engines and havent found any cases of 5.45 and AK74s being used in crime. Im sure there has to be at least one right?

  • maxim

    There have been pistol made in all calibers up to and including 50BMG. The way the law banning AP pistol ammo is applied is somewhat outdated.

    • noguncontrol

      another good reason to abolish the batf and the nfa

      • Richard Blaine

        You would have to abolish the GCA 1968 to get rid of the AP restriction.

  • john

    I probably have enough 5.45 for to last me a lifetime. Plus Hornady now makes them. How many AK74 variants do most people own? Probably just one. Now if they ever start selling AK-12 or AN-94 in the USA, then I’ll worry about a 5.45 shortage. Until then, I’m just glad 5.56 ammo prices have come way down.

  • J

    I feel like this is also an indication that 5.45 is growing in popularity.
    I just hope that Wolf/Tula just picks up production to compensate for the surplus drying up.

    • ILikeGuns

      Tula stopped pushing 5.45 in America due to poor sales (7N6 cornered the 5.45 market), maybe if these draconian laws are indeed followed through with, we may see Tula’s reintroduction of their AK-74 ammo.

      • I would suspect your analysis is spot-on. The regular com-bloc manufacturers will pick up the slack, but prices will inflate slightly. The fact of the matter is lead is more expensive than steel. We will likely see 7.62×39 prices.

  • SpazC

    #1 I hope this gets fought in court. Its definitely worth it for the ammo importers to fight it, I heard roughly 30m rounds of 7n6 has been imported over the years… thats a lot of money.

    #2 This could be a good thing in terms of new production ammo, and COULD lead to the viability of BRASS 5.45

    • Fred Fournier

      The government taking away a RIGHT of yours is NEVER EVER a “good” thing.

  • zts

    Thank you! Please help the 7N6 fans* get to the bottom of this!

    *who are tired of the pages and pages of speculation, threats, finger-pointing, and other BS that comprise the current “information” on forums.

    • You are more than welcome.

      We would rather be late to the game with the right information that out first with wrong and cause people to make bad decisions.

  • Lance

    Thanks to those buffoons who made pistols like ARs they mare making it harder to get good cheap ammo since they make crappy pistols in those calibers.

    • noguncontrol

      don’t blame the manufacturers, blame the commie batf and the commie libertard politicians.

  • Here’sAstart
    • Stonia

      So I see the argument a lot that 5.45×39 is under 22 caliber. I’ve read that while 5.45 is only .214 cal, the bullets used are actually .221. I don’t have any ammunition to mic myself, and would be curious to know.

      • ⊕RussR⊕

        read the rest of the law… the rest of it is what makes the ATF letter unenforceable
        ..

        • Eric Jackson

          Clearly this knucklehead is missing something, so can you idiot proof that last comment for me? What makes the import ban unenforceable under the law?

          • ⊕RussR⊕

            per ATF on what = AP..

            (i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium;

            or

            (ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.

            since it is NOT constructed entirely of 1 metal as in the top, AND… it was never “designed and intended for use in a handgun” it cant be AP as defined.

            there for, 7N6 does not meet the 18 USC §921 definition of “armor piercing”

          • Eric Jackson

            Ah, got it. So:

            a) 5.45mm = 0.215″ < 0.22"
            b) 7n6 jacket weight < 25% (likely, I could dissect one to be certain)
            c) 7n6 contains significant lead (not listed in (i))
            d) can be used in a handgun per (i), but wasn't "designed and intended" for use in a handgun per (ii).

            Gotta break these things down when I'm having a knuckle dragger moment.

          • Richard Blaine

            Unfortunately, your conclusion is wrong. The “core” of 7N6 is steel. There is a steel core within lead. The steel is the “core”. The steel and lead combined with the jacket form the projectile. So, while the “projectile” is not steel, the “projectile core” is. By contrast the steel in SS109 is not a “core” because it is merely the tip of the projectile not contained within it. Hence the exception for that.

          • ⊕RussR⊕

            the “core” is everything in inside the jacket…
            the ss109 is a lead base with steel tip..
            7n6 is a steel base with a lead tip… no different…

            both are non-hardened steel, neither is made to be AP
            both even if were plain jane FMJ shot from a pistol would still swiss cheese any vest the “steel” versions would…
            vest penetration is dependent on speed, not construction..

          • Richard Blaine

            Your argument is flawed. The definition of core relevant here is:

            “he central, innermost, or most essential part of anything.”

            The steel core of 7N6 is the innermost part of the projectile hence it is the “projectile core” under the statute. The second paragraph of your post is completely irrelevant because the legal definition in the gun control act is the definition that applies. It has nothing whatsoever to do with actual AP performance. They can define a marsh mellow as AP if they want and it legally speaking is AP.

  • OliverTabuger

    Why did TFB remove the comments on the plum crazy blog article?

    • You can reach out to the Editors at any time. Their contact information is public.

    • gunslinger

      probably because of the state it derailed into.

      on a side note, I wish Disqus would let you know if an article you subscribed to was updated. I know that Disqus is the commenting secton of the post, not the content, but it sure would be nice.

  • atfsux

    While I don’t want affordable 5.45 to go away,…the upside is this would finally spur on SOMEONE to make some damned BRASS 5.45 ammo and Hornady to release their V-MAX projectile for us reloaders. All AK variants suffer accuracy loss from crappy eastern block ammo, and the only way to get better accuracy potential out of one is to be able to handload for it. I do this for my Chinese 7.62 variant and get fine results as small as 1.25 MOA. But if I put Wolf in it,…5 MOA or bigger. GIMME SOME 5.45 BRASS DAMN IT!!!!!!!!!

  • Josh

    Have you guys heard the phone calls to the ATF saying its banned? Sounds convincing to me. Although those where just the office workers. Not any movers and shakers so to speak.

  • Chunky Desperado

    This entire ordeal is ultimately going to be decided by the technicalities. The recent Innovator Arms v. ATF ruling showed the numerous flaws in ATF procedure, most notable of which was the fact the ATF can issue a ruling based solely on their qualitative analysis and that are not required to include or conduct an analysis using quantitative empirical methods. Should the ATF rule that 5.45×39 has a greater diameter that .22, their methods for collecting that data absolutely must be questioned. The C.I.P. TDCC list the diameter of the 5.45×39 cartridge as exactly 5.60, which converts to .220 (technically .22047 which can be .220 or .221 when reduced to 3 significant figures). It’s incredible important to keep in mind that 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(17)(B) states only that the diameter must not be greater than .22 inches and does not explicitly state the level of precision required during analysis. Consequently the level of certainty can only be as great as that of the lowest component, which is the .22 found 921(a)(17)(B). Rounding down .221 from 3 sig figs to 2 results in a value of .22.

    • Richard Blaine

      The diameter is irrelevant to 7N6. There are two parts to the prohibition related t to one another by “or” not “and”. Specifically:

      The Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), as amended, defines the term “armor piercing ammunition” as:

      “(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

      (ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.”

      So, it can be banned as AP because of the steel core alone regardless of whether it is less or greater than .22.

  • Porterhaus

    This should be the last straw. Gun owners shouldn’t run away from this with our tails between our legs and hope they don’t do the same to our other favorite milsurp cartridges. What we should be doing is starting an all-out, grassroots legal battle royale starting with a petition to move 5.45 and 7.62x54r to an exempted listing for importation so they can’t stop the supply of this ammunition. We deserve to have this ammo imported. We deserve to have 7.62×39 imported but that was already taken from us. If we don’t fight this, we will lose our rights surely. Don’t lie down, do something about it.

    • n0truscotsman

      I wrote a letter covering the 7.62×39 too in addition to the 5.45!

      • Richard Blaine

        You can write all the letters you want. If it has a steel projectile or projectile core it’s AP under the GCA 1968. Period. The only option (which is not likely to succeed) is to attack the GCA because the ruling is consistent with it.

        • n0truscotsman

          Which is what I did, at least getting the fucking thing reformed.

          I also send letters demanding the indictment of Dick Cheney for war profiteering, conflict of interest, and war crimes per the provisions in the Hague Convention, but one can dream too.

          Either way you look at it, im probably among the first on their list of dissidents to round up and slaughter 😛

          • Richard Blaine

            Or you could try concentrating your efforts on things with a chance of success……

    • Fred Fournier

      Couldn’t have said it better myself.

    • Richard Blaine

      You can’t exempt any of it with the GCA written as it currently is without striking down that section of the GCA. I would happily strike it down as an “infringement” but I’m not the judge that’s going to be hearing your case. Under the AP definition in the GCA 7N6 is absolutely positively AP because it has a steel “core” and can be chambered in handguns. You cannot get around it without striking down that part of the GCA 1968. It’s that simple.

  • zts

    MAC, James Yeager, and GunWebsites put together another video, sorta similar to the one above, that’s really worth watching: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZz0rqkBRlk

  • John Smith

    So SS109 5.56 with a steel penetrator is specifically NOT armor piercing, but 7n6 5.45 is? I’m confused. Of course, that’s because this BS!!

    • Ken

      That’s an interesting point. There is a lot of imported SS109 available, like PMC from the ROK, AMA from Denmark, IMI from Israel, and Hotshot from Romania, among others. There are also a lot more AR pistols than AK-74 pistols.

    • EugeneTheBeast

      I’m betting that is next. Baby steps…

      • Richard Blaine

        Probably not. The ATF is reading the regulation by the letter and by the letter 7N6 is armor piercing under the GCA and SS109 is not. The actual “core” of 7N6 is steel. The “core” of SS109 is part lead and part steel with the steel in front. In order to be AP under the GCA the entire core must be steel or other named material. People who don’t like the ATF action need to attack the law, not the ATF on this one.

    • Richard Blaine

      Because there is a specific exception for SS109 because of the core construction. The entire core is not steel it’s steel tipped. A “tip” is not logically the same as a “core” The core of SS109 is part lead and part steel with the steel in front. The GCA says the “entire” core other than “trace” material must be steel in order to be AP. The GCA definition has nothing to do with performance and everything to do with construction.

  • Fred Fournier

    Quite frankly, the flipped way in which you addressed this issue is disturbing. hub-ub?? Really??? Do you really NOT see the seriousness of this? The 7.62 that was banned was AP. 7n6 is not. And, it does not meet the ATF criteria for AP. What is REALLY going on here is, they are testing the waters to see what they can get away with. Do you honestly not see this? Look how Hitler…I mean obama, and his cronies have tried to ban our “assault” rifles. Well that failed, for now. But, if they can start chipping away at the ammo for these rifles, well that’s almost as good. You say, It’s “only” 7n6. Is that what you’re going to say when next they go after, say the 5.56? Will your comment then be, It’s just the 5.56 round, not the .223. You’re like a frog in a pot of water. Turn up the heat slowly enough and you’ll sit there till you boil.

    • Ken

      The Chinese 7.62×39 was not AP. It was mild steel core, just like 7N6 or LPS 7.62x54R.

      • Fred Fournier

        Ken, your are absolutely correct. I had my facts wrong about that

        • Richard Blaine

          And it’s banned for the same reason because the “core” is steel. The actual performance is irrelevant under the GCA.

    • Richard Blaine

      It does meet the criteria for armor piercing because the criteria is met by projectile or projectile core construction ALONE. The criteria is from the gun control act, not ATF.

      The Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), as amended, defines the term “armor piercing ammunition” as:

      “(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

      (ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.” (emphasis added) ”

      The “core” of 7n6 is steel. Therefore it is armor piercing under the GCA. Also the Chinese 7.62 that’s banned is not armor piercing either. It has the same performance on armor plate that solid lead core does. The mild steel core is used because steel is cheaper than lead.

  • Lance

    This isn’t just about 7n6. It’s about the bigger picture. Take this to
    court and have the 7.62×39 steel core ban lifted, as well as protecting
    54r from future bans. ATF should fear a court battle. They are clearly
    exceeding their statutory authority. An honest judge would agree.

    • Richard Blaine

      They aren’t exceeding their statuatory authority at all. The statute is clear on this. You would have to get he law itself struck down as unconstitutional.

  • Eric Jackson

    I’ve been saying for years that people should get about 10k per barrel they buy so that they can burn out their barrels if 7n6 gets cut off. That way you run out about the same time your barrel needs replacing, and you swap to 5.56 for the same price and better options.

  • gerry d welder

    Google:
    Video: National School Safety Expert: Sandy Hook shooting was a fraud

    Posted on February 19, 2014 by Carl Herman

    “The FBI classified the report on Sandy Hook. This has never been done before, and indicates a cover-up of all the evidence that this was a staged event.”

    “Mr. Halbig has the professional expertise to conclude the official story is impossible, and to demand arrests in order for the public to have the truth.”

    School Safety Expert Threatened for Questioning Official Narrative

    http://youtu.be/rEfW9FvLyAg

    -911

    -Oklahoma City Bombing

    -etc.

    _______________________________

    Halbig states that he NFL has involvement in his interview:
    (so what does the NSA know?
    …and as usual the FBI will be all over this ……right)

    Google:
    Video: National School Safety Expert: Sandy Hook shooting was a fraud

    Posted on February 19, 2014 by Carl Herman

    Wolfgang Halbig has the perfect combination of expertise to evaluate what happened at Sandy Hook Elementary School:

    law enforcement: Florida State Trooper, US Customs Agent.
    education: teacher, assistant principal, principal.
    current school safety expert: trained key personnel at over 4,000 US school districts, and over 3,500 school safety officers.

    His conclusion after ten months of motivated investigation:

    “In my professional opinion, [Sandy Hook was] a scripted event… in planning for maybe two, two and a half years.”

    Mr. Halbig’s response is demand for criminal arrests of “leaders” involved in Sandy Hook based on rational embrace of the public evidence he explains in the interview:

    -law enforcement parked 1/4 mile away upon arrival. Why didn’t they rush to a heart-wrenching emergency if it really occurred?

    -no trauma helicopters were ordered. This is unheard of for an actual emergency.

    -no paramedics were allowed in the school. This is unheard of.

    -officials refuse to say who declared all 26 people dead. By law, this must come from a doctor. This refusal of so much basic information indicates lies and cover-ups.

    -official narrative claims emergency personnel didn’t find the school secretary and nurse after 4 hours of searching.

    -this “event” included a traffic sign lit with the message, “everyone must sign in.” Officials refuse any comment on this element that would be present for a staged event/drill.

    -porta potties were on site; again with no comment by officials and consistent with holding a staged event.

    -no names were listed for the 26 children and chorus director at the 2013 Super Bowl event in honor of Sandy Hook. The children resemble the alleged shooting victims. It’s unimaginable to not list these names for such a huge deal.

    -no lawsuits filed by parents for negligence against school district. This is unheard of.

    -Asperger’s causes poor motor skills and muscle tone – how did an alleged 120 pound shooter without training carry ~30 pounds of gear to shoot with such precision? This combination seems impossible to imagine.

    -2 homicide investigators threatened Mr. Halbig for making inquiries consistent with his professional duties to learn about this event for future school safety.

    -Newtown Public Schools won’t return any calls. Mr. Halbig says this non-cooperation to contribute information for other schools’ safety is unheard of.

    -the FBI classified the report on Sandy Hook. This has never been done before, and indicates a cover-up of all the evidence that this was a staged event.

    -radio transmissions are consistent in tone and content for a drill, not an actual emergency.

    -multiple weapons reported at a limited crime scene were never found. This is not credible.

    -law enforcement sent a kindergarten girl from the hall to stay at the crime scene of room 8 to be alone with dead bodies. This is a ridiculous claim that demands investigation and answers.

    -no parents viewed the bodies of their children. This is also unheard of.

    -no documents are being released via Freedom of Information Act requests. This is unheard of.

    -trauma services were never requested. This would never occur.

    -tearing down the school is consistent with destruction of evidence, given the HUGE gaps between official accounts and the evidence.

    -there’s zero evidence that a bio-hazard company was contacted to clean blood, bodily fluids, and officials refuse comment. This is impossible.

    -Mr. Halbig’s inquiries of who installed the school security system has been met with silence. This is unheard of to not get this information to improve other schools.

    Mr. Halbig has the professional expertise to conclude the official story is impossible, and to demand arrests in order for the public to have the truth.

  • gerry d welder

    This is only part of a much bigger picture and here are some of the puppet masters:

    You democrat and RINO lovers got property?
    Think about this when you vote in November:

    “The far-reaching fate for a captive new human society is not being planned in Washington, D.C., but in New York City.

    That fate is no longer somewhere off in the distant future but is being made ready to eclipse all of human society—by the end of 2015.

    The sovereignty of all nations will be swallowed whole in the United Nations ‘Post-2015 Development Agenda’, and that’s only the nightmarish beginning of the coming new life on Planet Earth.”

    UN’s ‘Post-2015 Development Agenda’

    http://canadafreepress.com/ind

    Excerpt:

    Meanwhile, all nations who care about their people should stop funding the UN. It is impossible to take over the world without money.

    Agenda 21 For Dummies – YouTube

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?…

    The UN Assaults PRIVATE PROPERTY: US MAB; National …

    http://www.comeandtakeit.com/unpropty... – View by Ixquick Proxy – Highlight

    United Nations Land Grab in United States … giving away our national parks to the United Nations under the guise of, …

    U.N. Agenda 21 To Seize 17.8 Million Acres From Missouri and …

    http://www.beforeitsnews.com/ alternative/ 2013/ 06/ u-n-agenda-21-to-seize-17-8-million-acres-from-missouri-and-arkansas- please-help-stop-this-land-grab-2678204.html

    Obama, Clinton Selling Out U.S. Sovereignty in Secret | American …

    https://americanfreepress.net/… – View by Ixquick Proxy – Highlight

    May 21, 2012 … Obama, Clinton work in secret to surrender U.S. sovereignty … of war—could still land the president or cabinet members in prison. … will be working hand in glove with the United Nations to pass a new ‘UN Small Arms Treaty. … America should get out of the UN, since we pay the …

    Can Feds Grant Eminent Domain to China?

    http://www.libertygunrights.com/Criti... – View by Ixquick Proxy – Highlight

    CRITIQUE OF. “Feds Grant Eminent Domain as Collateral to China for U.S. Debts .” by Bernadine Smith. This is written in response to criticisms regarding the …

    United Nation’s policy: “no private ownership of land”

    “We realize that much of our land has already been consigned, turned over to the United Nations: Rivers, national parks, wetlands, Biosphere reserves, Heritages such as Yellowstone National Park, Grand Canyon, Independence Hall, etc., and dozens of other national treasures. Do we have enough other federal land and sites left to cover for all we are borrowing and spending hand over fist? Or will these huge loans also depend upon our privately owned land? ”

    Globalist plan:

    Our federal government ‘deems’ vast stretches of private property as ‘federal land’, then uses that land as collateral for US massive foreign debts that cannot possibly be repaid…

    Agenda 21 works very well into China’s already ‘no private property ownership’.

    Check out the last 30 seconds of 2, then watch the whole thing:

    Obama and Rockefeller 1

    Obama and Rockefeller 2

    Listen to the last 3 minutes and ask why NOT A WORD FROM THE UN (sarcasm):

    youtube: The Rothschilds Exposed 3/3

    Play Hide

    …and please share.

    Understand the problem and your already on your way to fixing it.

    Think about this when you vote in November:

    Here’s something about Paul Bremer and other well know people I’ll bet you didn’t know.

    For those impatient people, go straight to minute 21:45

    Finally naming names:

    youtube:

    Who Was Really Behind the 9/11 Attacks?

    Published on Sep 6, 2013

    If your patient, watch the whole thing for other very well known names.

    No wonder Jay Rockefeller said “the internet should never have existed” and is now making every effort to hand internet control over to the UN.

    So when will we demand the NSA answer so many questions about current and past events? Isn’t it logical NSA has extensive communications on all events from 911 to Sandy Hook massacre?

    Or is the NSA a private weapon only for the Bush Neo cons and certain globalist elites?

    The RINOs and the democrats want to hand our taxes and law making over to the UN.

    The UN is ramming ‘Agenda 21’ and ‘Common Core’ down the throats of the world, the UN’s World Bank is complicit in forcing poor farmers off their own land in Africa and South America for corporate and university endowment ‘tree farm/carbon credit’ investments, is deeming sovereign resources off limits, trying to eliminate (citizen’s only) the right to bear arms, our country’s sovereignty and our individual freedoms and now trying to force a ‘world’ climate change tax and ‘world’ wealth tax on us AND under the guise of saving us from asteroids, the UN is NOW trying co-opt our US space program, it’s technology, resources and MORE OF OUR TAXES.

    We must start with voting the RINOs and democrats OUT 2014

    So now the UN noticed Bloomberg’s dictatorial impositions on New Yorkers and has appointed him to be bulldozer for the UN’s climate change world tax.

    Through imposed ignorance we are handing over our resources, funding (taxes), technology and sovereign decision making to basically an unelected, new monarchy (UN)made up of mostly 3rd world dictatorships who are just tools of a few dynastic families.

    … time to reduce federal to it’s constitutional mandate, defund regulatory down to our country’s essential needs, defund the IRS and the Department of Education, re-coup our state’s rights, take back federal land -our state’s property from the feds), time to take back control of our own waterways and national parks and de-fund the UN, kick them out of our country, claw back pensions and restitution of it’s assets.

    Vote out the RINOs and all left progressives, inform our 1st responders and sheriffs departments.

    • Richard Blaine

      If you think megalomaniacs like Barrack Obama are going to share any significant amount of domestic power with the UN your tinfoil hat is too tight. With all the real threats posed by this administration why people have to go lunatic fringe coming up with anything is amazing.

      • gerry d welder

        … maybe you need to catch up:
        Obama, Clinton Selling Out U.S. Sovereignty in Secret | American …
        https://americanfreepress.net/?p=4207

        May 21, 2012 … Obama, Clinton work in secret to surrender U.S. sovereignty … of war—could still land the president or cabinet members in prison. … will be working hand in glove with the United Nations to pass a new ‘UN Small Arms Treaty. … America should get out of the UN, since we pay the …

        ________

        Another 1,665 acres US property (deemed federal land) to be handed to the UN. “The action he is taking next week will bypass Congress,…”

        Obama expands protection for Northern California coastline …

        http://www.ksbw.com/ news/ central-california/ monterey/ obama-expands-protection-for-northern-california-coastline/ 24921754

        ________

        “The far-reaching fate for a captive new human society is not being planned in Washington, D.C., but in New York City.

        That fate is no longer somewhere off in the distant future but is being made ready to eclipse all of human society—by the end of 2015.

        The sovereignty of all nations will be swallowed whole in the United Nations ‘Post-2015 Development Agenda’, and that’s only the nightmarish beginning of the coming new life on Planet Earth.”

        UN’s ‘Post-2015 Development Agenda’

        http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/61534

        Excerpt:

        Meanwhile, all nations who care about their people should stop funding the UN. It is impossible to take over the world without money.

        _______

        The UN Assaults PRIVATE PROPERTY: US MAB; National …

        http://www.comeandtakeit.com/unpropty.html

        United Nations Land Grab in United States … giving away our national parks to the United Nations under the guise of, …

        U.N. Agenda 21 To Seize 17.8 Million Acres From Missouri and …

        http://www.beforeitsnews.com/ alternative/ 2013/ 06/ u-n-agenda-21-to-seize-17-8-million-acres-from-missouri-and-arkansas- please-help-stop-this-land-grab-2678204.ht

        _______

        youtube: Agenda 21 For Dummies

        http://youtu.be/TzEEgtOFFlM

        • Richard Blaine

          That tinfoil hat is on really good isn’t it? And people wonder why Obama has been so successful at painting his detractors as crazy people…………

          I read the link. About what I expected. Full of falsehoods and general nonsense. For example:

          “On February 7, former Bill Clinton campaign manager Dick Morris dissected a host of international “sneaky treaties” that, he says, “Once signed and ratified, have the same status as constitutional law and cannot be altered or eclipsed by Congress or state legislatures. And their provisions must be enforced by U.S. courts.””

          WRONG. Reid v Covert, the SCOTUS ruled in part ”…no agreement with a foreign nation can confer power on the Congress, or on any other branch of Government, which is free from the restraints of the Constitution.”

          Another one:

          “Is the Obama administration secretly negotiating treaties with globalist bodies, in violation of the Unites States Constitution?”

          Please cite the section of the constitution which prevents the president from “secretly negotiating treaties”. Good luck. Treaties whether negotiated secretly or not have no authority whatsoever until ratified by congress and even then are subordinate to the constitution per the supreme court.

          • gerry d welder

            Many Military Convoys Now Moving Through the United States
            http://youtu.be/ugMmyBUKRy4

            The Chinese Are Here to Confiscate Our Guns
            April 15, 2014 – Dave Hodges
            The Common Sense Show

            Excerpt:

            In Part three of this series on the Bundy affair and what it reveals about the intentions of the Chines military, we look at the fact that the Chinese Solar Energy Zones are located adjacent to an American military base. We examine the ramifications for this placement and the reader can rest assured that this is no coincidence.

            Bundy Achieves Victory but the Event Reveals a Sinister Agenda

            As thousands of sheriffs, militia members and state legislators rushed to the aid of Cliven Bundy, plans are already in place to limit any citizen uprising. We know that the feds recorded license plates and engaged in facial recognition of the people on the scene who were actively supporting Cliven Bundy. This is a very disturbing development when one considers that Obama has been proposing preventative and prolonged detention (i.e. pre-crime) for people who “might” pose a future threat. This is the justification for the usage of FEMA camps.

            Obama explains the FEMA Camps
            http://youtu.be/HkSkQgnEV-Q

            Conspiracy thinkers are critical thinkers disparaged by the ignorant.

            “That tinfoil hat is on really good isn’t it?” – really???

            “Affair has exposed a much deeper agenda involving the Chinese. They have a military presence on our soil at the inland ports. Their troops train in Mexico and Canada, and soon we will see Chinese troops in these newly designated Solar Energy Zones. Is the presence of the Solar Energy Zones next to a major American military base, referenced in the two previous articles, a case of blending the Chinese military with the American military? Or, is it a precursor to invasion? Flip a coin. Either way, the Chinese call for tighter gun control in America and their presence on American soil, is a major cause for concern that these two events are not merely a coincidence and the Chinese will spearhead a gun confiscation effort inside of the US.”

          • Richard Blaine

            Military convoys have been moving through the United States since we’ve had a military. They’ve moved past my house at least a dozen times a year for the last decade. The only reason I didn’t see them here before that was because I didn’t live here. You make the pro-gun rights side sound crazy with these claims. With all the real problems with the Obama administration why you have to go long with this crazy stuff is anybody’s guess…..Your claims here are typical: You link together a bunch of unrelated events into a vast conspiracy.

            PS you realize the red crescent on white background is a symbol used by the International red cross and red crescent movement (a humanitarian organization)? It’s not a Chinese military symbol. It’s put on vehicles for the same reason the American red + is, to denote them as humanitarian non-combatant vehicles. It’s been in use for almost 150 years and was originally adopted for use in non-Christian countries where the cross was seen as a symbol of Christian conquest. It’s commonly used in Muslim countries today for this same reason.

  • David Trainmore

    Since a full length AK-47 bullet likes to tumble when it hits flesh, where does the ATF get off saying that the shorty barreled pistola version won’t do the same thing? The whole issue with armor piercing bullets goes out the window if the bullet is under stabilized, and tumbles when it strikes something. We always hunted ground squirrels when I was a kid, with hollow pointed 22rf’s, because the HP’s didn’t ricochet nearly as bad in a cow pasture. If there’s only one or two of these short barreled weapons sold as pistols, and they can’t stabilize steel cored bullets enough to stay point on through a target, then the pistol angle isn’t relevant. Maybe the better question is, whether or not they will stabilize properly in the longer barreled rifles? And yes, I do understand that the lack of terminal stability can cause other problems for bullet resistant vests and such, but that’s not what’s addressed in this particular law. If any of these bullets must “go to sleep” out beyond 200 yards, to stabilize enough, then banning them because of a short barreled, hand held sidearm, is flat out ridiculous.