Ammo Shortage Continues

Empty store shelves. Photo by JoshNix9. reports on the shortage of ammunition in South Dakotan gun stores

The explanations for the shortage differ. At a gun show over the weekend at the Ramkota Hotel, a couple of hunters said they believe ammo manufacturers are producing as much as they ever did.

“The only shortage is on the shelves. People are still in panic mode, still buying stuff,” said Dave Soehren of Appleton, Minn.

Cory Appl, the sporting goods manager of Ken’s Shell Express, said customers are also looking for .17 HMR, a rimfire rifle cartridge for the Hornady Magnum Rimfire, and .22 Magnum ammo. Ken’s hasn’t had any .22 Magnum cartridges in months, and it’s also been a while since the store has stocked .17 HMR, he said.

Five to 20 customers a day come in asking about .22 ammunition, Appl said. The last big load of .22 longs that Ken’s received — 80 boxes — was in October. Those were gone in a day and a half, Appl said.

There’s also sometimes an issue holding on to .243 Winchester and .22-250 Remingtons, Appl said.

Many visit Dunham’s each week, looking for .22 long cartridges.

A lot of hunters come in on Tuesday while the delivery truck is unloading, said Sandra Murphy, one of the store’s managers.

In December I blogged why there was a ammo shortage. I sincerely believe the shortage is caused by too much demand. Maybe this shortage is slightly contributed by the poor forecasting of demand from the manufacturers, but mostly excessive demand. If factories are producing to capacity, the opportunity cost of producing .223 means that less .22/.243/7mm-08 will be made and vice versa.

Thanks to Jay for the link.

Steve Johnson

Founder and Dictator-In-Chief of TFB. A passionate gun owner, a shooting enthusiast and totally tacti-uncool. Favorite first date location: any gun range. Steve can be contacted here.


  • neoconfection

    The ammo shortage (as much as we felt it in Canada) got me into reloading, which I don’t regret, but we are still suffering from the Great Smokeless Powder Shortage. If any of you kind souls would like to donate some Varget or IMR 4895, my .308 would be very appreciative.

    • Eric S

      Reloading supplies have been short for a while too. I spent the last couple weeks looking for .312 thinking it wouldn’t be that in demand, boy was I wrong. Same with primers. A co-worker of mine reloads commercially was talking how a local store wanted $100 for a single box of rifle primers. Too which he walked away from. Hopefully this ammo thing is on the tail end of a bubble and they won’t be able to move any ammo in a few months leading to a price reduction in supplies.

      • neoconfection

        I can easily find .312 150gr hunting and 150gr FMJ/BT, but I really want 174-180gr bullets. Hornady discontinued the .312 174gr BTHP match bullet, which broke my heart. It ran so nicely in my Mosin Nagant.

        • Blake

          Sierra makes a 174gr Russian-caliber Match King 🙂

          • neoconfection

            Really? A .310 or a .312? .310 is too loose.

          • Blake
          • neoconfection

            I live in Soviet Canuckistan, so Midway is a no-go for me, unfortunately. I would actually have a 7.7 Jap Arisaka were it not for Midway refusing to ship reloading dies to Canada.

          • Blake

            Brownells doesn’t seem to mind as long as the part isn’t export restricted…

          • neoconfection

            Ammunition/components are export restricted. I can get minor parts out under a $500 value (magazines, grips, etc) but reloading supplies requires an export permit.

      • Blake
  • floppyscience

    Huh… Here in metro Detroit the ammo shortage has largely been over for months. .22 LR is still a bitch to find, but everything else seems back to normal.

    I think it’s funny there’s a .17 HMR shortage. The last time I was in Cabela’s (the one in Dundee) they had maybe a hundred boxes out. It was all that was left on the rimfire rack. An employee brought out a cardboard box and took it to the rimfire section to stock and a half dozen people followed him to see what he had. It was even more .17 HMR.

    I guess demand is really different in other parts of the country.

    • That it is. So much so it’s pretty amazing–

    • J.T.

      I haven’t seen any .17 HMR in a while where I live. The first few months of the panic last year, there was plenty on the shelves, but I think what happened was that everyone went and bought .17s so they could do some cheaper shooting since .22 was nowhere to be found. I know I was thinking about going that route.

    • ColaBox

      Believe it or not, a lot of the shortage in sporting goods and hunting store may be due to the employees. I know a guy who worked stock at our Bass Pro, hed and his co workers would pull the ammo from the trucks and stash them around the store, then buy the ammo before it opened. Say there was 10 boxes of ammo. He and his friend would take 6, hide it, put 4 on the shelves, buy the hidden ammo at discount and stash it in their trucks. Im all for getting your share but that’s just screwing others over with an unfair advantage.

      • anonymous

        > Im all for getting your share but that’s just
        > screwing others over with an unfair advantage.

        Why do you hate capitalism?

        • A company employee discount is a privilege not something to be used to take advantage of and shortchange the customer. In reasonable amounts no big deal but hiding the majority for yourself and you’re buddies isn’t really a good practice. It’s not a question of hating capitalism .

          • joelferguson

            Well put!

        • anonymous

          Do you really believe that “unfair advantage” shouldn’t be a part of capitalism? If so, you sound like those Occupy Wall Street types. Anyone who has ever read Atlas Shrugged knows that only moral obligation these guys had was to their own self-interest. If there is inequality in the distribution of ammunition, don’t blame the “haves”.

          Since they were able to buy the ammo using their employee discount, it sounds like their employer — the owner of the ammo — doesn’t have a problem with the employee’s business practices. Maybe there should be a law to prevent these 1%ers from accumulating more ammo than the rest of us? We can’t have an an “unfair” distribution of ammo, after all. To each according to his ammo needs!

          It’s funny how gun owners claim to beieve in conservative principles, and then complain when those principles don’t work in their favor. Oh wait, that’s not funny. That’s sad, because they’re not questioning their economic theories. Instead, they just try come up with excuses why hoarding, price-gouging, unfair advantages, etc., aren’t part of “true capitalism”. Sort of like the lefties making excuses for the failures of communism…

          • FourString

            You are throwing a lot of stereotypes into one post. Let’s just stick to the situation at hand rather go into sweeping partisan polemics.

          • jawman

            Sure, communism/socialism/whatever people want to call it does not currently exist in America the same way that it exists in other countries, but that does not mean that it is completely absent from in America. Because it certainly is not. And it is growing very slightly each day. Now compared to other countries, one might say that it does not exist in America and never will, but that is foolish. You cannot discount the growth of socialism in America just because it is not a mirror image of say, Russia or China. But the reality is that the government is getting bigger and the people are getting smaller. The government is in more control than ever before, and larger than they have ever been, and it is only going to get worse as it grows like a cancer a little more each and every day. To say that it is not happening and will never happen is total ignorance.

            Murphy’s law.

            Every single day, America becomes a little more like the rest of the world, and American citizens’ rights are minimized and often lost. It happens more and more each day. And one day we’ll open our eyes and ask ourselves, “How did this happen? When did it get like this?” But by then it will be too late.

          • FourString

            Socialism is NOT communism. Do NOT confuse the two, let alone group them in the same category with a few slashes. Look it up. Read up on it. Communism is a rebranded form of dictatorship. Socialism involves a democracy with a multiparty system (not as screwed over as America’s two party system). Look up Dutch and Swiss socialism. Then look up the USSR’s politics, especially from 1917-1918. They are in no way, shape, or form the same.

          • FourString

            Also, “communism” simply doesn’t exist in America. The Democratic Party is regarded by the rest of the civilised world as only slightly liberal conservatism. Let’s not even mention that communism (rebranded dictatorship/oligarchy practised by the former Soviet Union and China) is nowhere near the same as socialism (driven into exile and persecuted by the predecessor of the NKVD/KGB in Russia).

            “Lefties” (which I’m assuming you are using to refer to American Democrats) don’t practise communism. Never have. Never will.

          • bloodyspartan

            You are either ridiculous or satirical.
            Communism is in Full BLOOM in Amerika and thriving.

            Criminal Justice Textbooks speak of Karl Marx and SOCIAL JUSTICE.
            the Commies are preparing to KLEAN House and the Head Marxist and his wife care less about the Peasants.
            But Jewelry for their dogs is so quaint.

            ALL the requirements for a Communist takeover are complete .
            Here we are ready to rock and roll or rot and beg on our knees .
            You must be the Local Commissar.

          • FourString

            Switzerland is socialist. The former Soviet Union was communist. If you want to claim that Switzerland (a country full of bustling commerce, Swiss banks, and firearms) is the same as the USSR good luck with life. To claim that communism is in “Full BLOOM” is to be entirely ignorant of political theory.

            Not only do you fear a foreign form of governance—it is obvious that you fear *textbooks.* That speaks volumes to your self-inflicted ignorance.

        • czed

          “Firearms not politics.”

          Why do you hate the site policy?

      • Baron Elfindale

        This is completely true went to Wal-Mart to find 9mm herd the person working the counter tell anouther guy they didnt have any walked up and look and they did i said i will take 3 boxes clerk said she didnt know they had any then say her and her dad had 10000 rounds of 9mm think she was telling people they were out so she could buy if

        • FourString

          that’s terrible. i know that america has always had individualistic culture rather than a collectivistic one like the nords but that’s just ridiculous

          • joelferguson

            Uncalled for comparison. Individuality does not mean you lose your humanity or sense of fairness.

          • FourString

            You missed my point. I never made the inference that individualism in its entirety was bad. Its extremes however are another story entirely. The same applies for collectivism. Furthermore individuality is not individualism. People caring more about themselves than the society they live in, such as the case as hoarding ammo, is such an example.

          • joelferguson

            Individuality is not individualism, in what world?

            Extremes in anything is bad. I’m libertarian yet the context of the situation has very little to do with collectivism or individualism. Has to do with right or wrong. Wow, I can’t even believe I had to point that out. I’m tired of idiots like yourself attacking individualism like it is some plague.

          • FourString

            I even attached the definitions of individuality/individualism and explained the difference for you mate. They are not what you think they are. If you simply don’t get it, not my problem.

            I also mentioned earlier that extremes in collectivism is bad, too. How exactly am I “attacking individualism”? You don’t even know me or my views on individualism (I’m for it on the whole).

            Did your brain simply stop working over the part where I said “individualism in its entirety [is NOT] disadvantageous”?

            You clearly read only part of my post and responded with a gut reaction instead of actually providing an informed, thoughtful response.

            Furthermore, I never categorised or brought up any false dichotomies. YOU did.

            Stop seeing the world in categories/stereotypes (libertarians vs. socialists). It’s far more complex than that. Principles (governance, culture) work on a case by case basis.

            In this case, individualism (selfishly and unnecessarily hoarding ammo, without considering others) is deleterious.

            An example of bad collectivism: sacrificing your future to support your family by choosing coal mining instead of university education and a long term career (read, October Sky). Or indirectly: high tax rates lower incentive for innovation.

            It’s not an all or nothing affair. Individualism and collectivism work in different areas of society. Similarly, modernised countries are not all capitalist or all socialist—they are mixed economies for a reason.

          • joelferguson

            Wow, your double speak is almost perfected. Do they have F451 schools in Scandinavia?

            Modern countries are mixed economies to their detriment. The free-er the market, the free-er the society has proven time and again throughout history to create the healthiest (in a whole sense, not specific aspect) societies, period. One need look no further, in modern context, than Hong Kong to understand what effect having the free-est market has had on them, one of the fastest growing middle classes seen over the last half century while, as we move closer to the “utopian” collectivist center, ours keeps shrinking. Funny how that has worked.

            Now, please excuse me while I go throw-up for engaging in the collectivist/individualist argument. I used to induldge in this debate in my younger years, but the patients for comparing the “facts and figures” in endless run-around has grown nauseating. Please, if Scandinavian society is so much better, please move back to Europe and take you Great Society ideas with ya.

          • FourString

            “Modern countries are mixed economies to their detriment.” The USA is a mixed economy. If you want to argue that regulations preventing speculation and fraudulence (and other unfair market practises) are detrimental, then you are truly out of touch with reality.

          • joelferguson

            Here ya are:

            A study done by a university and published in the journal for economic growth…

            Federal Regs have made us 75% poorer:


            Here, an article explaining so that a two year old could understand why free markets are more important than safety regs:


            Now excuse me while I go get nausiated again from indulging your smilely faced tyranny.

          • FourString

            You choose insults and condescension (“nauseating,” “double speak,” “used to indulge this debate in my younger years,” “endless run-around,” “kumbaya”) over discussing theory like an adult. From the way you respond to my points, it is obvious that you have NO knowledge of what you are talking about, nor do you really understand how the modern world works outside of America.


            Good day.

          • joelferguson

            No, I’m just fed up with arrogant collectivists that want to BLAME libertarian individualism for all the ails us.

            I’m sick of the arrogance and condescension from your ranks, as if we all would or could come to some uptopian centrist center and sing your guys favorite song, Kumbaya MF!

          • FourString

            Did I “blame” individualism? I fucking said that individualism has its merits. Did I not fucking say that a mixture of the two cultures is wise? Did I not fucking say that not one can stand on its own? Your extremism is ridiculous. The condescension from my ranks? You were the one who called me idiot first. Hypocrisy much?

          • joelferguson

            No, what you said was:

            “that’s terrible. i know that america has always had a more individualistic culture than a collectivistic one like the nords but that’s just ridiculous”

            You implied blame on individualistic culture and implied praise of collectivism.

            You should have expected someone to take considerable offense, especially since this is a moral issue and had very little to do with collectivism or individualism, but of course, just a like a good little collectivist, its all the libertarian individualists fault. Collectivism would have kept this from happening.

          • FourString

            I said MORE individualistic than collectivistic, meaning the two coexist in society. You’re really a libertarian extremist if you’re offended by my merely saying that the extreme of individualism, i.e. selfishly hoarding ammo instead of thinking about the whole functioning of society, is offensive. It’s true and perhaps that’s why it hits home for you so hard. You don’t like the truth. I already said that on the whole I am for individualism, the good parts (Google, Apple, and many other American industries are all examples of the success of individualism and personal motivation to succeed).

            At the rate you are going with your ideological rants about Soviet members and proselytising, I wouldn’t be surprised if you sent your parents to a retirement home and stopped supporting them, like Clint Eastwood’s family in Gran Torino. Yes, that is an ugly byproduct of individualism, whether you acknowledge it or not. There are good and bad in every culture. If you cannot concede this, then you are an extremist in constant denial.

          • joelferguson

            Dude, Eastwood didn’t go to any retirement home in Gran Torino, he ended up going out in a blaze of glory, so to speak.

          • FourString

            His grown up kids wanted to send him to a retirement home and take advantage of his assets (scene where his granddaughter has a conversation with him because she wants his Gran Torino). I mean, Clint Eastwood is pretty conservative, but even he highlighted some of the problems with modern consumerist, me-first culture today, how today is different from yesterday (shortly after WWII) when people had better value for human life and family support (after having lost so much). I personally witnessed a WWII vet on my street ask my dad for help to take care of him because his five grown children wouldn’t do it, even after his wife died. The man died one year after his wife passed; she did all the cooking and housekeeping, was his other half. When you’re old, you can’t rely on the state but your family or yourself, especially in America where pensions are non-existent under the old system.

          • FourString

            That’s why I say you gravely misunderstand collectivistic culture. Chinese culture for millennia has been about relying upon your family because there was ZERO governmental assistance under the communists AND the multiple dynasties before. The old values of caring for your old are fading in mainland China, corrupted by their newfound wealth (they are not used to it). In China, even fashion or taste is based on the pricetag. The sudden influx of consumerism has destroyed a whole culture. China is an example of FUBAR when the worst of individualism (greed) AND communism (“culture revolutions,” purges of art/religion, mass starvation, censorship) collide. That’s why I say that communism is not the same as socialism. It’s a dictatorship where those in power abuse their subjects, under the *guise* of socialism. There is a difference. The dictators in communist societies (there are only four: USSR, China, North Korea, Cuba) killed off all the real socialists (basically people who wanted a real democracy) and then took advantage of the vulnerable state of their country as well as the citizens’ having gotten so used to the different factions that they didn’t care when the Communists took power.

          • FourString

            Hell, my mom was a boat refugee escaping war torn Vietnam; her family was driven out because of their hard-earned wealth in the herbal medicines business. If you don’t remember, the communists EXECUTED such people simply for owning land. So, don’t assume I’m a communist. I’m your very ally whose family has been fighting communists for generations (Taiwanese/Nationalist intelligence agency, military generals, mainland Chinese ancestor’s landed estates were unjustly taken).

            Just because I discuss socialism does not mean I am a communist. No way.

          • joelferguson

            Sorry, dude, I hold communist and socialist in the same boat, just at different ends. One likes to smile while they tell you how its gonna be while the other just shoots you in the head. I get teh difference. I hope you get the fact I put them in the same boat.

            Now if you will excuse me, this grump really has to get going to that County RCC meeting.

          • FourString

            If you are a libertarian, you have only shown yourself to be unreasonable, unrelenting in your stupidity. I’m done with your nutter bullshit. I had tried to have a civil, logical conversation and all you did was devolve this into name calling and stereotyping. All you can think of is stereotypes, stereotypes, stereotypes. It is clear that I am talking to a highly uneducated, over-indoctrinated moron who has zero knowledge of how the world works.

          • joelferguson

            No, I pretty much understand how the world works. Nanny’s like you run it and i have to live with the social and economic consequences.

            Now, lets examine how this all began:

            YOU accused individualism of being responsible for a moral issue and then praised collectivism as an answer.

            I SAID, uncalled for comparison. Individuality, sorry, individualism, doesn’t mean you lose your sense of right or wrong.

            You went into a lecture on the difference of individualism/individuality attempting to show off your “superior intellect” as if you’re bestowing some widom from up on high…

            Now, since you attacked individualism and praised collectivism, ya wanna tell me who’s ideologically driven now? Now, you expect me to get naked, dance in the center and sing kumbaya? Tell you how right you are, how great you are? Please!

            Now that I’ve gave as good as I got and all you have left is to use explitives and tell me how stupid and wrong I am, thanks. I’ll declare victory and move on.

          • FourString

            I stated the advantages and disadvantages of both. Again, although you seem stubbornly convinced that I killed libertarian babies in this discourse, when I stated earlier that a BALANCE of individualistic and collectivistic cultures is advantageous. You are really ridiculous. For you it’s an all or nothing affair. You’re an extremist. You made a mistake. I pointed it out. Simple as that. You don’t have to be such an asshurt mofo who calls me an idiot for pointing out something you said wrong. YOU first resorted to name calling instead of debating me point to point, hypocrite. You failed to answer my ripostes and instead responded with stereotypes, sweeping generalisations.

            You’re so extremist that you can’t even see that I am not even a socialist. Yes, call it victory just like the 2008 and 2012 elections. Delusional git. Sod off, wanker.

          • joelferguson

            Wrong foot fwd, whatever…. I’ve watched where balance has gotten us.

            I used to sit in the center and sing kumbaya, can’t we all just get along. Sure lefties (in general sense, not you specific), why don’t we just compromise and watch as things get shitier and shitier…

            Mark my word, many of my detractors in a decade or so will be thinking much like me. If you thought 2008 was bad, just wait. The other shoe will drop near the end of this decade.

            BTW, I and people like me screamed well in advance about 2008. Yeah, I was called crazy then too, ie just as you brought up R’s calling Paul crazy. Good comparison.

          • FourString

            The problem is that under the two party system, the Dems and Republicans are practically making deals under the table to keep the feud going so that we voters are gullible enough to believe that one party is different from the other. I wouldn’t put faith in either party. They’re all just crooks. In other countries, there are multiparty systems with more checks and balances. Countries considered socialist in America are really just constitutional monarchies or democracies (some with extra low taxes but a substantial welfare system like Singapore). It’s the politicians that want to spread fear and hatred on both sides, to think in arbitrary terms of “left” and “right,” to keep their coffers full. Each year the only thing they can agree on in Congress is pay raises. That should speak for itself about how broken the system is. Nothing will ever be well under the Dems and nothing will change under the Republicans either. We are paying them to do nothing in congress but rabble. The biggest freeloaders are the politicians, in America.

          • joelferguson

            I’ve turned into an ideological old bastard. After tooooooo many years to count watching this crap, attempting to help find the middle ground (litterally as in knee deep into politics, I have run many local and statewide campaigns), I said screw it. I picked a side. I don’t believe the center ever really existed. It’s a fantasy drummed up by lefties over 100 years ago so that they could make their socialist policies more palitable. Also taking the name liberal away from classical liberals, like me, also in an effort to make their policies more palitable.

            Now, excuse me while I go get ready to be grummpy at my county republican central committee meeting and give you a break.

          • Old Port Freighter

            Bigot. Just. Shut up.

          • joelferguson

            Voltaire comes to mind, but thanks for the advice.

          • howboutnoucrazydutchbastard

            Didn’t see how he was attacking individualism. He totally agreed with you that extremes in both forms of rulership is bad. You are very disagreeable. You want to disagree even on issues you agree on. Odd. No wonder why America is so divided, because of people like you, ruled by passion over mind. Using sound bites and vocabulary loaded with political bias instead of thinking for yourself. So easily used by politicians because you divide your thinking into “us against them.” You clearly don’t care for common ground. You just want to argue. You’re the poster boy of the exact type of person that hurts the 2A cause. Because you don’t want gun rights for all. You just want to argue until no one cares about what you have to say or your cause.

          • joelferguson

            Thanks, well noted.

          • FourString

            Furthermore “sense of humanity or fairness” is more closely associated with collectivism than individualism, let alone individuality.

          • joelferguson

            Not really, classical liberalism is where this all is rooted. Classical liberalism developed it’s own logical sense of humanity and fairness that has effected what collectivists consider fair or humane.

          • FourString

            Do not confuse Bolshevism (which includes impersonalisation of the individual) for collectivism (culture of Scandinavians and East Asians). Collectivism is about honouring your family, caring for others, housing and feeding your parents when they are very old, among other practises. (Socialism and Bolshevism are also not the same, either. Lenin’s Bolshevism essentially a dictatorship, which horrified the Democratic Socialists that his party later persecuted.) Individualism is about personal gain/reward, which works to a degree. A good life is led with a balance of the two cultures. They are not always at odds with each other.

            Also, collectivistic culture exists in America.

          • joelferguson

            Bolshevism and Scandinavian collectism/socialism is different? They are only different in execution. Their root ideology and their end game goals are one and the same.

            So, please spare me this kumbaya centrist center crap. It isn’t working and the cancer/problem has done nothing but mutiply over the last half century.

            Proselytize your message to the detriment of society. Look around, we seem to get further away from singing that kumbaya tune ya’ll like, not to mention the shrinking middle class.

          • FourString

            If you think they are the same, you have absolutely no knowledge of how Western Europe works. Ignorant.

          • joelferguson

            Ha! Read above, smilely faced tyranny!

          • FourString

            You are an ideologically driven fucktard, totally out of touch with reality. You sound like a fucking child blowing raspberries. A DICTATORSHIP IS NOT SOCIALISM YOU FUCKTARD. How hard is that to get?? Fucking moron.

          • joelferguson

            Government is use of force. Whether that force or tyranny comes from a dictator of a legislative mob tyranny really doesn’t matter when the storm trooper boot is against the throat.

          • FourString

            “Government is use of force.”

            Oh man, this just gets better and better. You’re one of those out in the back woods survivalists, aren’t you. Anarchy good! Government bad!

          • joelferguson

            Limited gov’t good, Big gov’t bad.

            Close, I’m just no longer buying into the la-la-land of can we just come together in the center and sing kumbaya?

          • FourString

            No, we should have a civil war and the South should secede. Clearly.

          • joelferguson

            I don’t think there is much center ground to be had anymore.

            Ask democrats to cut 1% of future spending and they act like we asked them to cut off an arm.

            But the answer must exist in the center, it has served us so well considering the mess Medicaid/Meicare, soc. sec. and other well established policy that has functioned flawlessly…

            Clearly, the center is the answer.

          • FourString

            “They are only different in execution.”

            So a dictatorship (power concentrated in a single leader, prohibiting all other parties aside from the regime) is the same as a socialist democracy (suffrage for ALL regardless of class; 4+ party system)?

            If you want to call that “execution” and claim that a communist society and a socialist democratic society are the same form of governance, then you are TRULY ignorant.

          • joelferguson

            I do make that claim with eyes wide open, no ignorance whatsoever! However with a great deal of arrogance in my assertion.

            It’s called smiley face tyranny jack-a$$. So kind of you to assume you own my income and with your legislative blessing I get to keep some of it.

            See, when I mean its the same, I really mean its the same shoe just a different size boot!

            Again, what a nausiating argument.

            If you cannot recognize the similarities, then you are truly ignorant of your own tyranny, with a smile of course.

          • FourString

            So you DO think Switzerland and Scandinavia is ruled under “tyranny.” How utterly stupid. God, it must suck to be you, to be so fucking brainless and clueless.

          • joelferguson

            Cluesless is thinking a collective should be given the power to tell an individual how they should live, what they should eat, what they should buy… the list goes on and on and on…

          • FourString

            You have no idea what collectivist culture is. Absolutely. No idea. I’m talking to a scarecrow.

          • joelferguson

            Pretty good idea, but thanks for caring.

          • FourString

            “So kind of you to assume you own my income” I said high taxes was a disadvantage of socialism. You are being absurd now.

          • joelferguson

            Being absurd, as in, the absurdity of implying blame on the individualistic culture for walmart employees squirreling away ammo for themsleves or friends or market speculators?

            Then the absurdity of the smugness of explaining the difference of individuality and individualism when that had very little to do with the orignal point, other than to show how absurdly superior you could be?

            Or how bout the absurdity of letting this troll goat you into an internet debate where you think your intellect and rational reason will have any effect at having a rational conversation.

            Oh the absurdity !!!!!!!!!!!!

          • joelferguson

            Ohh and to add, didn;t the king of denmark just call for his people to become a participation society?

            At least some Nords are starting to gain some common sense.

          • FourString

            “At least some Nords are starting to gain some common sense.”

            You DO realise that Denmark has been a Parliamentary Democracy since 1849, right?

            You DO realise that Denmark frequently ranks as the happiest country in the world, and that Scandinavians are generally happier than Americans are?

            You DO realise that Scandinavian countries are in many ways freer than America? (4 party system in Denmark = not controlled/conned by the two party complex in America—no unfair suppression of alternative/third party candidates like you’ve seen with Ron Paul, Ross Perot)

            “Gain some common sense” indeed. /s

          • joelferguson

            You do realize it has been glazed over kumbaya that is all beginning to fall apart…

            …thus the call for a participation society.

            The free ride is up for the western European socialists.

            How ya like ’em apples!

          • FourString

            You’re a moron and a faggot. Western Europeans are not freeriders, you fucking retard. Ever heard of a Swiss bank account? FUCK YOU

          • joelferguson

            As a whole, no, not all are freeriders. 25% work for the 75% that don’t want too. That free ride will come to an end. It’s common sense collectivist don’t have.

          • FourString

            Japan is a collectivistic society. Its people are hard working. Japanese culture is known to be laser precise. Germans as Western Europeans are known for their similar level of workmanship. I’m not going to respond to your sweeping generalisations.

            I’ll let them speak for themselves. You opening your mouth shows everyone here how blatantly brainwashed you are.

          • joelferguson

            Hi jack _ _ _, how bout the original generalisation you made implying individualism is somehow responsible for walmart employees squirreling away ammo and how a collectivist society would have prevented it?

          • FourString

            How about you keep deflecting to my original post when all your subsequent ones failed miserably, resorting to calling me “uppity” when I showed you up on how badly you clung to your incorrect belief that individuality and individualism were the same word? If my “superiority” was what you took issue with to begin with, why didn’t you say so to begin with? Keep making excuses and catching at straws. You’re downvoted to kingdom come for a reason.

          • joelferguson

            I did and this is where things got out of control, sorry I wasn’t direct enough

            first reply after after my initial uncalled for comment:

            Individuality is not individualism, in what world?

            Extremes in anything is bad. I’m libertarian yet the context of the situation has very little to do with collectivism or individualism. Has to do with right or wrong. Wow, I can’t even believe I had to point that out. I’m tired of idiots like yourself attacking individualism like it is some plague.

            /You could have seen I was offended there. Adversarial roles take two. It only takes one to turn the conversation rational.

          • FourString

            I too apologise for this conversation getting out of hand. Anonymity makes it easier for this to happen.


          • It certainly doesn’t help

          • joelferguson

            Ha! I guess getting everything deleted was bound to happen.

            Cheers to the embarrassment disappearing and apologies to the moderator that had to clean it up.

            I got extremely defensive and that is an easy thing to do in anonymity as well.

          • It is and I know that. If we had the same discussion in person it would have been much less confrontational.
            Anyway I appreciate the apology– I consider it in the past.

          • joelferguson

            Hi Four String! Thanks for trying to delete this, fuckwad!

          • Ease up guy no sense in using that language to disagree

          • Mr Jack Knack

            Western Europeans are free riders? Heckler & Koch (Germany), Fabrique Nationale (Belgium), Steyr (Austria), Glock (Austria), Holland & Holland (UK), H&K 4.6mm round manufacturers (UK), Sphinx (Switzerland), Sig Sauer (Germany), Swiss Arms (Switzerland), SAKO (Finland), Walther (Germany), Accuracy International (UK), & Beretta (Italy) produce more jobs and revenue than you’ll ever muster. Your stereotyping is blatantly uninformed. Most of the firearms you cherish are Western European you self-absorbed prig.

          • joelferguson

            M8, no. I understand why you are taking offense with me. Mr. high strung four string made the original broad stroke sterotyping and I took him to task and became just as ridiculous and absurd as he became.

            I have never cared for superior acting people and he went super superior with his first reply to me.

            And just to note, I value none of the companies you have listed, not to say they don’t make great firearms.

            However, kinda in my absurd defense, isn’t Europe kinda imploding economically speaking? I mean, for the last few years, haven’t we seen nothing but riots, absurdly high unemployment, sovereign debt bail outs, ect. Wouldn’t that indicate an economic implosion? Haven’t many of us from the right complained about Obama being a European socialist or attempting to Europeanize America?

            Look, I’m not tryin to pick a fight with you, so please don’t pick one with me.

          • FourString

            Man, it’s really sad that you have to use MY comebacks because you can’t invent your own. Except the superior acting part. You sound like a Russian revolutionary, out to lynch the aristocracy! Oh those people who can hold an intellectual discourse—what vile uppity upper rankers!

          • joelferguson

            Come backs? More like mocking m8… at this point its just for mockings sake.

          • joelferguson

            Excuse me, I got the country wrong, it was Holland:


            Sorry, all those European nanny states seem the same to me.

          • FourString

            “Sorry, all those European nanny states seem the same to me.”

            You seem very fucking proud of your dumbassery/ignorance. Go to fucking hell.

          • joelferguson

            No, I’m just looking at the riots, the high double digit unemployment, the debt to gdp ratios, and using economic common sense to know how this is all gonna play out in the next decade for the European socialists…

            Not a hard task to figure out.

            Hint: Remove head from rear end.

          • Nicks87

            Nords? Like from the Elder Scrolls video games? Please dont compare Americans to fictional characters. Thats like me saying that everyone in England acts like they are in a monty python skit.

          • FourString

            Nordic people. Scandinavians. Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden. Dude, sounds like you play more videogames than I do, for I have NO idea what Elder Scroll reference you’re making.

          • FourString

            English weather and food does contribute to Monty Python insanity 😛

            Btw when you’re in London be sure to see a live performance of Spamalot. It’s amazing.

            Cheers from the UK m8

        • Alfred E Newman

          Same thing happens at our local WalMart..People who work there scoop it up faster than customers..

  • Nicks87

    Before people jump to any conclusions, Aberdeen is a very small town in northern South Dakota. They dont have very many options when it comes to buying ammo (walmart, local hardware store, etc). Larger cities in the tri-state area are not experiencing the same problems. Except .22 lr of course but even that is available if you look for it. I think it’s stories such as the one above that bring about the hystaria and cause these shortages in the first place. No conspiracies, just paranoid people.

    • hking

      I actually live in Aberdeen and we have at least 8 places that stock multiple calibers of ammo. Ken’s has issues with keeping stuff in stock, but the other shops dont seem to have this issue. .22lr is a bit hard to find but I have been able to pick up about 1,000 rounds over the past month here and there. Sodak sports, the very best gun store in town has a pretty beefy assortment of popular calibers, 9mm, 762×39, 223, etc. It really seems the only thing in short-no supply is .22lr. I was actually surprised at how well stocked our local stores were with the “usual” calibers for being a small town. These goofs at the gun show just say crap to get people to buy their ammo at the table.

      Its really odd seeing my little hometown pop up on a gun blog. Also the Aberdeen American News sucks hard.

      • Nicks87

        What’s up fellow South Dakotan lol. Scheels in Sioux Falls usually has the cheapest ammo in the area. It goes fast but the only thing that is difficult to come by is the .22lr. Cabelas in Mitchell is more expensive but they have a better selection than most places. The cheap stuff that they do get sells out quick. Gary’s in Sioux Falls is a joke. Most of the guys that I know around here that are serious about firearms keep their distance from that place. Price gouging and poor customer service ruined that place for me. The yuppie pheasant hunters are the only thing that keeps them in business.

        • hauslp

          GunUp in downtown Sioux Falls has decent prices on 5.56 too.

  • Dave

    The ammo shortage is still in full swing in Southern California, especially for plain vanilla FMJ 9mm or .22. I don’t try and hoard ammo but with shipping costs it only makes sense to order in larger quantities to keep my cost per round down.

    • FourString

      Ordering bulk ammo is the only way to go to get costs per round down. Luckily there are options, but last I’ve checked 5.56x45mm is more readily available than .22 LR. o_O

      • Suburban

        .22LR is about 10 cents per round, and that’s the cheap bulk stuff, if you can find it. I recently bought surplus 5.45x39mm for 14 cents per round. Much rather have another crate of 5.45mm over the little box of .22LR.

        • FourString

          Holy moly. I ought to get a rifle chambered in the “poison round” instead; that’s really cheap!

    • Hunter57dor

      and when you can find it, lack of supply and intense demand have driven prices sky high.

      this is such crap.

  • JT

    Is there any way to combat profiteers? Not the douche who invests for himself and deprives everyone else of ammo. At least they’re only doing it for their own consumption. I’m talking resellers who buy only to sell to others. Obviously the news networks can’t be counted on to out the profiteers, but maybe internet bloggers/vloggers could do an investigative piece?

    • Tank102

      Why do you hate Capitalism? There is an opportunity cost to spend time purchasing .22lr with the intent to resell. If you don’t want people to make money on it, then manufacturers will have to raise their prices and either way you’ll end up spending the same amount.

      Now don’t get me wrong, I am not a ‘profiteer’ but, you need to understand that if there is a way to make money people will find it and exploit it. That’s just simple economics

      • JT

        Lol you’re joking right? Anyhow, I think there are differences between a person buying ammo for their personal use and a person buying ammo intentionally to deprive others from it. If this is profiteer-induced, than that is what it is. This isn’t marking up gasoline as a gasoline station owner when supplies are low because the trucks aren’t coming in. this would be equivalent to people driving a gasoline truck through every gas station in a town, emptying the gas pumps, then reselling it off the side of the highway.

        Gun stores take heat for “scalping”, privite individuals do it from anonymity and they do it without fear from being put on the spot for what they’re doing. This is in relation to a shortage DUE TO scalping. Basically, the demand is because of the scalpers, not because of the individuals. Take the scalpers out of the equation and I think the ammo crisis wouldn’t be as bad at this point

      • JT

        I also understand you call it “basic economics.” This is true. This is also not a justification or an excuse for dispicable behavior, for knowingly depriving others of a product at a price by mastering the system to buy it first only to sell it back at many times as much. That isn’t providing a service to anyone.

      • JT

        Specifically, this:
        “If you don’t want people to make money on it, then manufacturers will
        have to raise their prices and either way you’ll end up spending the
        same amount.”

        How is perpetuating higher demand via reselling somehow the same as if reselling wasn’t going on? The problem, if this is what’s perpetuating the crisis, would be that the resellers were causing the demand, not the people buying for personal use. Take out the resellers, less demand, manufacturers would not have a reson to hike it to the same price. I know a lot of people want to think “capitilasm good” when there are so many out there bashing it, but “capitalism” is kind of a complex term. It can mean providing a service in a crisis, but it can also lead to or create crises. It’s not that clear cut

        • joelferguson

          These people could be considered speculators. Speculators play a specific and important role in markets.

          “Even if speculators did play a role, what McCain apparently doesn’t understand is that speculators perform a valuable service. Most people don’t realize this because on the surface speculators don’t seem productive. They buy what already exists and resell it. How does that help society?

          In fact, the hated speculator is a good guy because his buying and selling reduce volatility and uncertainty in an unpredictable world. He may only be out for his own profit, but that doesn’t matter. As Adam Smith wrote, “It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest” (”

          These speculators, believe it or not, actually help to stabilize prices over the long haul.

          • tincankilla

            speculators are rent seekers and inherently anti-free trade, as they interrupt signals between demand and producers. here’s another Adam Smith quote for you: “People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.”

          • joelferguson

            Speculators are a necessary evil. Time and again when the speculators have been removed from the market, prices become extremely volatile.

          • JT

            There’s a lot of conditions on that. There still is a lot that we don’t know yet about the crisis. We don’t know what part these speculators had in making the crisis as bad as it was and in stretching the crisis out as long as it’s been. So, we don’t know how much of a “necessary evil” they would have been. “necessary evil” is kind of a monolithic term and it oversimplifies the situation. If they didn’t create lot of demand on supply (I think they did), then they may have provided a service in allowing people to purchase Ammo they would not have been able to (and discouraged too much hoarding). If they did create a lot of demand on supply, then they made things worse by pushing prices up where they would not have absent their presence (also, how many of them were there?).
            Lots of factors here.
            Let’s say for example I thought Obama was going to ban Aspirin, Tylenol, etc. and started buying every bottle in town. Other people see this and start hoarding all they can find. I enlist my buddies to do the same and spiral the crisis out of control. Could you link the great aspirin run of 14′ on me? No, by your definition I was a Necessary Evil…as I create a panic that spirals out of control.

          • joelferguson

            I think my other comment a few minutes ago addressed this best.

          • JT

            Not really, because it relies on the assumption of being able to know where the demand was happening, who the demand was coming from, and when the demand was happening. Therefore, you cannot make a blanket assumption that the crisis wasn’t caused by speculation or prolonged by it. The existence of a concept is not an excuse for an action or necesarily an explanation for such a complex outcome.

            And even if there was a benefit from the speculators, which I do not believe was very significant if it was significant at all, look what it may have done to the community if speculation was to blame. People couldn’t afford to go shooting with their kids, People couldn’t get the practice in that they needed, Police Departments were running out of ammo. This damages the community and may not have needed to happen. To defend terms like necessarily evil or speculators in every situation is like defending “might makes right”, “survival of the fittest”, etc. It’s what separates us from the animals, at least most of the time. I think there’s worth in that

          • joelferguson

            Alright, considering every gun owner I know buys as much ammo as they can, when they see it and have done so for the last year straight, those who buy to be speculators/resellers are a very small part of the market in comparison. In that respect, getting bent out of shape over the spc./resellers is placing blame for blame’s sake.

            They are a rather small fraction of the market. We all would do well to just stop panic buying.

          • JT

            See, I find this more useful. In a situation like that in that locale, for that specific situation that i can’t believe is happening everywhere there might be a use for speculators so that say, someone who needs a gun for self-defense can have ammo. I think speculators as a whole made/making it worse, but in the case, I would say it would be useful.

          • JT

            The bulk of this discussion IMO is that I have presented what I believe is likely true (speculation worsening and prolonging the crisis). And what I believe may have prevented or alleviated the crisis (calm and moderation in buying). What I have heard in return is akin to dogma and CANNOT be proven without extremely targeted information. For all I know you may be proven right. But at the moment, you cannot be proven right, because the information isn’t available. But at least there’s some interesting information there.

          • joelferguson

            I think we essentially agree, just from a different angle.

          • JT

            No. I don’t agree 😛 I am interested in the specific case of this crisis. That doesn’t necesarrily mean that I don’t disagree with speculation in every circumstance, just I tend to disagree with it in this case. Can’t prove it to have been significantly detrimental, just as one can’t prove speculation was significatnly useful here and whatever significantly usefeul is. I believe it and I think it’ll be better for everyone next time if speculation is stigmatized for the reasons I mentioned. Kind of like if someone ran around town yelling there was a zombie apocalypse and nobody panicked and started stepping over people and rationing milk.

          • joelferguson

            Okay, for us laymen, non-economists, perhaps we can’t or won’t figure out if speculators helped or hurt this crisis. Well, I could, but I’d first have to deduce how to go about proving the hypothesis one way or the other and that would take mutiple hours to find that info. Then go about the actual work of gather the relevant data to draw a sound, reproducable answer. We’re talking at least a full days work, if not more. So, please forgive me. I’m not about to do that to win an internet debate.

            However, what I can do is point to instances where the speculator has been demonized and removed from the market:


            As it happens, though, there’s a useful case-study in the relationship between futures markets and commodity prices: onions.

          • JT

            Things like this are interesting. And really any sort of account of what is going on is helpful, because we can’t count on the Mainstream media to investigate any of this or know where to start if they ever tried. See, if I didn’t say anything we wouldn’t have typed all this stuff out 😛

          • JT

            But then, how does speculation reduce volatility in this case? The way I see it, if they prop up demand and then suddenly dry up, it’s the ammo industry holding the bag, paying workers they suddenly don’t need, shipping out ammo nobody will buy. In a way, the ammo industry has wizened up to crisis demand and aren’t making the same mistake twice, but they easily could have. This is somewhat similar to what the Federal Reserve does that the Austrian Economists go on and on about. You have a small number of people affecting prices (price of loans by buying up lots of treasuries) affecting interest rates, leading people to make decisions they might not have otherwise made (their typical argument)

            Market manipluation, no matter who’s doing it isn’t that great in my book whether done by professional economists or little guys trying to make a profit off of scarcity by making something scarce. Funny thing, if these ammo profiteers were to do the same thing in the economic markets, they’d be investigated by the SEC. For this, this is chump change and unfortunately IMO, the difference between better stocked shelves with lower prices allowing more sportsmen and women to enjoy the sport.

          • joelferguson

            They are not market manipulators, they are market players. When supply returns to normal, so will demand and these fools that are buying up tens of thousands of rounds at a time are gambling. When the market returns to some normalcy, just like speculators that made a bad bet, these guys will be holding product/commodity that they’ll be lucky to even get their money back on.

            I’ve seen .05$ round .22lr, the market is close to a normalcy return.

            Political mayhem was the original market manipulator that created the circumstances whereby the speculators could run wild. When normalcy returns, they’ll either have to sit on their investment and wait for the next panic, whereby letting their product loose to the market, helping to keep price more stable in the next panic or will end up having to let them at a loss. Either way, they are speculators and are playing an important role.

          • JT

            Well, I may disagree with you on them being market manipulators. Taking unfair advantage (free time to buy ammo exactly when it comes in, enlisting buddies to buy, using inside connections) isn’t very nice or “sportsmanlike”. Might be fine in the markets, but it has IMO greatly damaged the sporting community as I had thought we were more like a family or should be, maybe need to be with what we’re up against. And this happens. But I still cannot agree that it was categorically necessary what they did. Even if we discover that they did provide a significant service (still a relative term).Personally, I hope they end up with tons of ammo they can’t sell.

          • joelferguson

            “Personally, I hope they end up with tons of ammo they can’t sell.”

            Couldn’t agree more! I hope they have stock piles (hundreds of thousands) they are sitting on ready to liquidate in the next ammo panic, cuz Obama/Pelosi probably has another anti-gun rant in them that will cause another panic giving them the exact opposite result they really want, less guns and ammo on the “streets.”

            Think about how many new gun owners who were created in this last panic! I know of at least 20 new gun owners, all of them buying FIVE thousand round lots when they can because they’re scared they won’t see it again. We have all become hoarders and in that sense, the speculators are a rather small percentage of the market in comparison. We all need to just quit panicing! Period! (and stop playing the blame game, that for socialists).

          • JT

            More gun owners were added and I believe that may be the only good thing about the panic, if you can say that something “good” happened as a result. Not sure about the stockpiles though as they may transfer the purchasing of ammo from the producers to the stockpilers, but that’s probably another topic

    • floppyscience

      I’m not usually one to recommend interacting with the ATF for any given reason, but technically you’re supposed to have an FFL to sell ammunition for profit. I’m sure most of these resellers are not licensed.

  • kipy

    Now when I find a sweet deal online I can’t even order it thanks to the SAFE act. It was a sad day when I got the email from ol’ Larry Potterfield telling me they could no longer ship me any ammo 🙁

  • gunslinger

    low supply, high demand.

    doens’t matter if it’s Gramps staking out walmart to resell to the LGS. or someone stocking 50,000 rounds of 22LR…”Just because”

  • Vince

    Aussie here: Why is it only rimfire of smaller caliber rounds that are being bought up? I would have expected more common rounds like .223 and .308 to be in high demand and difficult to obtain.

    • micko77

      A couple of things at play… Due to higher-prices on .223 ammo, many AR owners have bought .22 LR copies or conversion kits, thus driving demand; additionally, 22 LR is the all-purpose round for plinking, practice, hunting, target shooting, and “preppers”… you get the idea. Combine these (and other) factors and one ends up with limited supply, high demand. I live in central Illinois, and haven’t been able to find U.S. production .22’s for less than $4.00/50 rounds for over 2 years within 50 miles of home, even ammo that went for $1.19 three years ago.

      • FourString

        On the plus side, now is a good time to build an AR lul. But I’m kinda bummed about .300 BLK availability. I want an ARAK 21 upper in 5.56x45mm with the spare .300 BLK barrel. At least with that set up you could run 5.56 until .300 BLK becomes available again.

        • Cymond

          Agreed. I have a 300 Blk upper that I’ve never take out of the packing because I can’t find ammo for less than about $35 a box online, and none locally (who wants to pay high online ammo shipping on a couple boxes????).
          When I first researched the Blackout a few years ago, the cheapest .223 Rem I found was $8/20 while .300 Blk cost $12/20. I figured that a 50% increase was livable for small-volume shooting. Now it’s more like $30/20!!

          • FourString

            I found out that 7.62x39mm is suuuuper cheap and super available, at least on Lucky Gunner. It may not be an AR-15, but the just released SIG 556xi in 7.62x39mm looks awfully attractive as a .300BLK substitute (which itself is a sort of 7.62x39mm substitute), provided you don’t mind the different magazines.

      • Vince

        Cheers for the explanation! Also were paying around $35 for 500 rounds of .22LR

        • Suburban

          Is that AUS$? I’m seeing $50US/500 here in Pennsylvania for the really cheap stuff. Not cheaper enough to be worth using over reloads or steel-case Russian ammo.

          • Vince

            Yep AUD. That’s CCI – Winchester – Remington – Federal all ranging from $32 to $49 for 500 rounds .22LR

  • ColaBox

    I wouldn’t say there’s a shortage of anything but .22, we have plenty of everything else it seems in my area. The problem is their still charging bullshit prices for it. Haven’t seen Remington UMC in months, and the PMC went from seven bucks a box with tax to eleven.

  • West

    Luckily several years ago I would pick up a couple of 550 cnt boxes of .22 every time I went by the gun shop. Now I have approx 14K .22 rds.

    • joelferguson

      Wishin I had done the same.

    • GuidoFL

      Smart move.

      “Buy it cheap and stack it deep” But don’t buy now, WAIT !

  • Zius Patagus

    Someone told me that Federal is making 40 million 22 lrs a week in Minnesota. Where the heck is it all going?

    • Raven

      I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the distributors are throttling the supply.

      • Cymond

        Why would they do that? It’s a seller’s market – they should SELL! Otherwise they could easily wait too long and be caught holding inventory that dropped half their value (when the shortage/hoarders are finished).
        That makes as much sense as selling your gasoline stockpile after the crisis is over.

        • Raven

          Because by artificially restricting the supply that’s released to the public, they can keep the prices high and turn more profit.

  • john huscio

    this must be a regional thing, cause ive had little trouble getting 9mm JHPs and .223/.556 here in michigan

  • john huscio

    though later this year i will be adding .357 mag/.38spl to my arsenal………hopefully ill be able to find both calibers in good quantities like the other calibers i use….

  • John Dalton

    Ok, just got back from Outdoor World in Colorado. The ONLY shelf that was bare was the 22LR shelf. Everything else had something on it. Not full by any means but they had enough if you need a few boxes. There were actually some choices for .380 which is nice to see after the drought.

  • Steve

    after the past couple years and the subsequent scares; obama I, obama II, Newtown. People went on buying frenzy and well you have to feed the new rifle or handgun with something. Also there were many people buying from one place and selling higher at others. To combat those that do this its pretty simple ” you dont buy from them”. When .223 was 1$ per round i didn’t buy any. They can charge whatever they want doesn’t mean i have to buy it. it will eventually even itself out inflated prices dont tend to last and even out, will that new norm be higher than before………probably.

    Im really optimistic that ammo manufacturers are reading the writing on the wall and will try and keep up and push as much out there as possible. Im really hoping we see a major surplus which will drive costs down.

    best thing to do is not panic buy

    • greekdish

      There are millions of new gun owners in this country. Especially in states where they did enact new draconian gun laws. People rushed out to buy firearms they knew would be banned, an rightfully so. So even if there are just one million new owners, figure in at least 1000 rounds for them, thats an extra 1 billion rounds. Add to the fact the DHS and other government agencies buying spree of 1.5 billion rounds, and its easy to see this has nothing to do with a panic buy….there truly is no ammo to be found.

      Its easy to sit back and say “just dont buy” if you already have 5000 rounds for each firearm…but there are millions upon millions who just want 1000 rounds to go to the shooting range with.

  • engjin

    Credit card, gunbot and fedex FTW

  • aweds1

    It could be a bigger shift in buying habits driven by the legislative threats and stupidity of the past year. I know that two or three years ago, I kept a couple boxes of hollow points on hand but generally bought FMJ as I needed it heading to the range. It was always there. After the past year’s silliness, you just can’t depend on the LGS, Wally World, Bass Pro, etc. having what you need when you need it. I now buy online and 1000 at a time.

  • Paul White

    It’s not bad in Texas. .22 is still rare and some calibers seem to go in and out–.243 locally for instance–but most stuff is at least available in some loads now.

  • Hunter57dor

    I am so so very sick of manufacturers crying about “excessive demand”

    Tool up more assembly lines to make product, hire some more workers, get the problem fixed. it should not take this long, and running current lines at their breakneck speeds is just dangerous to the end user. too many mistakes made, there is no way they could be doing proper quality control at the speeds they are moving.

    If people want something, by god they will find a way to get it, and if someone else makes it before you do, that is money you lost.

    • HKGuns

      A business that expands production to meet a spike in political driven demand soon has an over capacity problem that can put them out of business. The most money is made when running the production lines at 100%. There will be very few, if any, companies expanding production to meet the demands of this false economy of demand spurred by NObama and his minions.

      • crmitchell

        I understand Remington will soon bring a new .22 line into production shortly.

        • It will be a little while yet. The plant in Lonoke, Arkansas is being expanded a great deal. Lonoke Remington has been around a long time and produces most of the .22 ammunition for Remington.
          This new building will really help.
          Also Remington is running the plant at 100% 24/7–

        • waveaether

          Too bad Remington ammo is so poor. I’d rather do wait than shoot their stuff.

    • JT

      I had mentioned below, but it’s kind of lose-lose for them. If they expand to meet demand, there’s no way they’ll be able to contract fast enough when demand dries up. And another thing people don’t realize, what’s going to happen when the crisis ends and people start realizing that they bought too much? They are going to start using it and demand is going to drop through the floor. It’s going to be at least a significant drop.

      • GuidoFL

        But how long before that happens ? This shortage was suppose to end 6 months ago ………..

        • JT

          Thay could be the most dangerous part IMO. It could happen unpredictably. If the manufacturers are poorly postured for the lag in demand, it might be bad. But I think that they have prepared, not ramping up to ease demand like they could have, so it will probably be fine

    • GuidoFL

      I’m seeing offshore ammo makers flooding our markets and at lower prices. The US ammo makers may find themselves in serious trouble soon ?

      • Blaser270

        Hope you’re right. Greed has become the US motto. Having us over the barrel is just awesome for their pocketbooks.

    • Hunter57dor

      And, a day or so after my comment, ammo plant has an accident.

      When will we learn?

  • tincankilla

    i’d mostly blame flippers on both sides of the counter, but it’s sad how hard some retailers are trying to keep up the shortage. they’re both our best friend and the worst enemy, like a drug dealer or an abusive spouse who you just can’t leave…

  • GunTotingLib

    In Tacoma Wa I have no trouble getting most common calibers with the exception of 22lr. Although prices are still 2 to 4 bucks a box higher than a couple years ago.

  • Aaron E

    Prices are starting to come down as the mad demand (hoarding) is starting to calm, but we’re still about 10-20% away from pre-scare prices. The shelves near KC are fairly well stocked (except .22LR, .380, .300 BLK, and sometimes .223).
    The worst problem during the ammo famine was the independent firearms dealers staking out Wal-Mart, Bass Pro, etc. on shipping days and buy out everything before it was even stocked. They’d go in with a few employees so each could buy the max, and literally clean the order before they made it to the shelf.
    Wal-Mart didn’t raise their prices much, so the dealers were buying low and turning around and selling high – fueling the craze to buy ammo and the shortage from hoarding.

  • Shayne

    BassPro in Nashville, TN. has a large variety of ammo and plenty of sticker shock to go with it. Asked one of the employee about bulk ammo – was told they don’t order bulk ammo. Largest you are going to get is 200 rounds. The only ammo I didn’t see was .22 lr ammo. I just can’t afford to pay the price they want. Gander Mountain in Bowling Green, Ky is a little better on price but not much on the shelf. My local Wal-Mart is out of everything, what I get for living in Clarksville, TN (Fort Campbell guys really shot a lot).

  • lbeacham

    Can’t Obama spring for some equipment and put the long-term unemployed back to work spitting out .22’s. Any illegals left to do anything?

  • lbeacham

    How is Ruger going to sell any 22’s firearms next year if we can’t supply the market with ammo? Supply and demand is out of whack for now. We need some Capitalistic greed goin’ on here.

    • jawman

      Exactly. I want to buy a 10/22, preferably the anniversary edition, but at this point there’s no way I’m buying a 10/22 since I can’t find .22 ammo. Might as well buy a shotgun or an AK in 7.62×39.

  • GuidoFL

    I sold all my .22 cal. rifles and hand guns due to this craziness ! The game players won’t profit off of me.

    How will the firearm manufactures sell their .22 weapons, good question ! Get ahold on this issue or be prepared to start laying off employees ?

  • Ruger needs to build a .22LR ammunition facility and start cranking them out. Then they can offer package deals with their 10/22’s.

  • Steve_7

    Speaking for myself, centrefire ammo got too expensive so I bought .22s and now there’s no .22 – I assume I can’t be the only one.

  • Leigh Rich

    Hasn’t changed. Glas i have a hord.

  • pismopal

    .22 is being hoarded by a cross section of hogs,resellers and people with nothing else to do. Without the hoarding, it would be available in the same stores in the same amounts.

  • Jon

    Everysince 1993 when I began collecting and shooting both hand guns and rifles I’ve always searched for reasonably priced ammo and if the price was good I brought it, mostly from on-line sources. My thoughts were, and are, if something negative can happen, it will, and we can see that an ammo shortage has happened, the why’s and wherefore’s differ in opinion from one person to the next but you can’t argue that it hasn’t happened. I kinda saw that coming in 2006-7 when it was increasingly hard to find, Federal XM193, 5.56 ammo.
    Just going to Billy Bob’s gun store and seeing empty shelves isn’t justification to say that the world is ending. Consequently prices at sporting goods/gun shops are so jacked up I personally don’t buy from them, with the exception of Wal-Mart and while I can’t vouch for other Wal-Marts I will say that the one’s in central Indiana have recently been quite well stocked and if they don’t have it today they will probably have it tomorrow.
    Most of us can find what we are after just sitting at a keyboard doing on-line research. Of course this doesn’t apply to states with draconian laws forbidding ammo being shipped to your home. In essence, search for what you want, establish what you think is a reasonable price and buy it if it meeds your criteria; but don’t buy it from the first company that pop’s up. Compare prices of 3 or 4 vendors, don’t forget shipping costs, and go with the one that costs the least. I call it ammo futures because you never know what is going to happen in the future. Happy ammo hunting

  • crmitchell

    No shortage here in NW GA, except for .22LR. Stopped several times at the Sporting Goods store and have been told that when they get some in, the same group of guys are standing at the door every morning and buy all. They then sell them on line at a profit. Asked why they don’t limit those guys so everyone can have a chance, and was told it was “first come, first served”. Went elsewhere and got some, although the local store limited to 2 boxes per day.

  • taylorcraftbc65

    Here in the Blessed by GOD, and the Republican Party conservative Republic of Texas, the ONLY caliber that can’t be had is the one traditionally used to bring kids up in the fine art of marksmanship, the .22 LR. Being pragmatic Texans, we just started bringing them up with AR-15’s and Mini-14’s. Works just as good.

  • William Fluit

    In Sioux Falls there’s plenty of all types of ammo except .22 rimfire. Scheels has shelves full, including 17HMR. Don’t take the word of one little gunshop.

  • gunslinger

    I’m just going to leave this here…

    • JT

      That is pretty amusing

  • People This article was about the shortage of ammunition. That is it was about ammunition until somebody started two things—politics and the inevitable insults that always follow. This is a prime example of why TFB has rule number one—— no politics! If you disagree do it in a civil manner. Those that participated in the political talk and insults apparently don’t have enough respect for TFB to refrain from this most important and basic of rules.
    You must see what happened the article was turned on it’s ear, ignored and the subject changed completely. This is why we have had this rule from day one.
    This prevents other readers from staying on topic and commenting. This time I let it run to see just how far it would go and if anyone would make an effort to get things back on topic. Yes, I deleted all of those comments but I didn’t take any action toward any individual. I sure can’t promise that in the future.

    • joelferguson

      Thanks and noted. Came across this article googling ammo shortage. Never been here before, never was aware there was a rule. Will endeavor to remember to respect that in future vists.

      • Oh I understand. With the first visit you wouldn’t have any way of knowing. We always keep politics out of any discussion. We have a good number of readers that appreciate the blog because of that rule. We just want everyone to enjoy the blog and each others company.


  • Mike Bowen Jr.

    Well, I’ve got this piece of information from my dad; who still keeps in contact with his buddies in the military and law enforcement. There, despite claims to the contrary, has been a sweeping purchase of almost all ammunition by state and federal agencies. Even DHHS and IRS have been bulk buying ammunition, to cut down supply and drive the cost up and limit the amount out in circulation by the general public.

    My dad faithfully served this country from Vietnam on through to Iraq 2006. From his sources who are still in active service in the military and/or law enforcement have emailed him personally that this was going to happen, before the shortage became wide-spread.

  • st21

    Aberdeen may be a small town in SD, but I assure you San Antonio Texas is not. As a retired vet and currently work back in the confines of the USAF, travel often, I have seen the shelves. Try to find 30 30, of course 22, 243, and 357 ammo in ANY big city or anywhere else. And further, 9mm is getting scarce again. Here’s my thoughts. You may call it, as you coined hysteria. It’s the second wave of “I got caught short” never to happen again. I’m not a hysterical type guy. But I frequent gun shows and network in ammo and guns. The bottom line, and what is not being reported or fluffed down. People are damn right scared of this present government. Plain and simple. I’ve been to the ‘Sand Box & the waste lands of Aghy”. They both have one thing in common, Fight. The current media dumbs America down and it’s freedoms. By who’s direction, that is for another type. But hear this, loud and clear. An American cleansing is in order. Are you familiar with Bosnia? Times that by 20….

  • waveaether

    Lately I’ve seen Russian and European .22 at some online stores. Names that I’ve never seen before. If the American manufacturers won’t meet the demand, then eventually foreign sources will. And later the US manufacturers will need to compete against those guys. If any of that new ammo turns out to be good, the American manufacturers will have shot themselves in the foot. Excuse the pun.

  • VayaconMuerte

    The next time I hear ‘manufacturers are running just fine, and it is simply a customer-demand driven shortage’, I think I’ll scream! Seriously, anyone who actually believes this – I have one question for you: When’s the last time you have seen ANY OTHER INDUSTRY in America that produces ANYTHING, get into a customer-over-demand situation that is 6-years old, and STILL going on for the foreseeable future, and blames the customer for ‘demand shortages’? That would be like someone wanting an F150, the government buying them up like crazy, along with the population wanting them too, and Ford saying ‘we’re sorry, but you are wanting too many F150’s, it’s your fault you want so many’. Sound stupid yet? Yeah, does to me too. I’d drop their stock TOMORROW if they ever did that. If you think there are just as many .22LR’s being made today as 10-years ago, obviously you weren’t buying .22LR’s 10 years ago. FYI, according to manufacturers, they are running MORE HOURS of production now than ever before, while store shelves are emptier than before, while more stores are in the area selling more gun-related items than ever before – and NO .22LR’s are to be had.

    I’m not jumping to conclusions. I’m 60-years old, and worked in manufacturing as a manager and engineer for almost 30 of those years. I also know that if any company I ever worked for gave this lame excuse for more than 1-quarter, the main corporation would have fired every single one of us, and hired new ‘managers who can make things happen’. If you can’t see government’s hand in this, you aren’t looking. THIS IS NOT GOOD BUSINESS! You’re in business making ammunition for 100 years, and .22LR’s for 80 of them, you’d think you’d understand the enduring nature of it and invest in more assets to MAKE MORE. Then again, the best oil sales is the shortage to boost prices to maximum amounts.

    GUARANTEED – a Republican Pro-Gun President and ATFE, ready to sell new Ammo Stamps to manufacturers, and you will suddenly see $1.50 a 50 prices and over-supply again. Why? Because if the supply doesn’t return, it really looks like it’s time to open up a .22LR manufacturing plant focused SOLELY on that caliber, and cut the nuts off the hoarders and the OEM’s that are price spiking for profits. I am sure, those who nay-say this now will be the first in line to buy them then.

  • Full Name

    There is not now, nor has there ever been an “ammo shortage.” What we have is a bunch of ASSHOLES who buy up ammo to resell it, and a bunch of HYSTERICS who are still panic buying. If both groups would just KNOCK IT OFF, the “ammo shortage” would disappear overnight.

  • Cary mcdonald

    Prices (and profits) rise when inventory is short. The manufactuer’s of .22 ALSO have the choice of cranking out high-margin (large) ammo, or (REALLY LOW) margin .22 rounds. It’s not surprising they pursue the big bucks with filling the high-end market first… It’s just that it’s taking SOOO LONG to fill it I guess.

  • robert rogers

    I have to laugh when I hear people complain that someone raised their prices to take advantage of the shortage.

    Well, these very same people would raise their price on, say, an antique car for example if suddenly there was a high demand and they were lucky enough own n one.

    After selling their car for a large profit higher than they would have gotten, they would congratulate themselves on their good fortune.

    Yet these same people become angry when someone else has the good fortune to have something that is in high demand and therefore commands a higher price.

    People, wake TFU. Capitalism is good. It is what makes for a strong economy and we all benefit.