G2R Radically Invasive Projectile: 9-Part 9mm Segmented Hollow Point

g2r rip bullets

The G2 Research 9mm RIP round has been making waves online over the weekend. The company claims its 96 gr copper bullet is “the last round you will ever need”. The design is inspired by a triangular tipped surgical tool called the Trocar. It has 8 segmented spikes which break off as the bullet enters its target, while the solid base continues on its original trajectory.

This is not the first segmented bullet round to have been developed. Two examples of segmented bullets designed to break apart are the popular CCI .22 Long Rifle Segmented HP round and the Winchester PDX1 Segmented Slug. The theory behind these rounds is that many pieces cause more internal damage and hemorrhaging than one solid slug. The downside is that the remaining bullet has significantly less mass after the spikes break off. The solid copper bullet weighs 96 gr in total. After the spikes are dispersed you are left with a 9mm caliber 50 gr slug boring through the target. If this round was a regular hollow point, it would have expanded to 13mm but retained all 96 grain of weight.

G2R RIP vs. Pumpkin.

G2R RIP vs. Pumpkin.

 

So the question is wether or not one 50 gr 9mm slug + eight (lets say 6 gr) spikes is more damaging than a single 96 grain 13mm slug? I can’t say I know the answer. We are reaching out the company to ask if they are willing to send us some test ammunition. If they are willing to supply it, we will test it and share the results with y’all.

The G2R RIP should be on the market soon in 9mm, with .380 ACP, .357 SIG, .40 S&W and .45 ACP coming later. Pricing has not been announced. 

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Steve Johnson

Founder and Dictator-In-Chief of TFB. A passionate gun owner, a shooting enthusiast and totally tacti-uncool. Favorite first date location: any gun range. Steve can be contacted here.


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  • CrankyFool

    Other than the terrible video (using full-auto handguns entirely for the perceived cool value), I also don’t really look forward to having a conversation with my friendly LEO — and hostile suing attorney — about my use of ammunition named “RIP.”

    • Giolli Joker

      Good points.
      (the Beretta 93R is actually super cool, anyway.)

    • bbmg

      Well, you shot the guy, your intention was hardly to reward him for good behavior. If the use of deadly force is going to land you into trouble, I don’t see how the name of the product you used to administer it would change things.

      • gunslinger

        i thought it was an urban myth about the “use of deadly ammo” and the victim being sued by the BGs family for killing him, (even though he was an intruder commiting a crime) and the victim had “man killer” ammo.

        i could be wrong

        • dan citizen

          Sadly it is not an urban myth.

          In a civil trial I have personally heard hollowpoints referred to as “exploding bullets that are illegal in warfare” (it is true that the geneva convention bans hollowpoints)

          In a local home defense case the prosecutor repeatedly called the winchester silvertips “cop killers”

          This phenomena is why the black talon round had to be renamed.

          • bbmg

            Did this description influence the outcome of the cases you mentioned?

          • http://www.thefirearmblog.com/ Phil W “Senior Writer TFB”

            I know several cases and at first it made a huge difference.

          • David Knuth

            Do you have citations for them?

          • http://www.thefirearmblog.com/ Phil W “Senior Writer TFB”

            No that’s been a long time ago. Early 80′s when this first popped up.

          • III J

            I award one hundred thumbs up for everyone who commented about the ill davised, macho badass name on the box, and I do indeed remember the Silver Talon and Black Talon ammo influencing the perpsectives of non-gunnie citizens. Same with the ammo called DRT
            ( Dead Right There). The answer that juries MUST hear when you or your friend are being sued shitless by the dead perp’s Momma, spouse, cousins or whoever, is that you only shot him to STOP his threat to your life; you do NOT want to say, “I KILT that scumbag dead!” or to show any ‘deadly intent’ Just like you don’t want to be seen high fiving your neighbor or taking photos of yourself standing on the perp’s corpse when the cops arrive, you must play the perfect role of the scared victim who acted as a last resort – because that is all that juries understand. Don’t give the bad guy’s lawyer any ammo so to speak, by letting him tell the jury that poor Willie was killed by a Gut Shredder 1000 bullet fired from a Para-Skull Splitter 45 Magnum.

          • dan citizen

            Hard to say what goes into the decisions juries make.

          • ColaBox

            “In a civil trial I have personally heard hollowpoints referred to as exploding bullets that are illegal in warfare”

          • ColaBox

            Sorry, computer is glitchy. I only pressed upload once.

          • Nick

            The Geneva Convention did not ban hollow-point ammunition. The first Hague Convention prohibited the use of easily expanding ammunition. It also prohibited deploying explosives by balloon.

          • dan citizen

            I was in a hurry and had a feeling I was quoting the wrong thing.

        • http://www.thefirearmblog.com/ Phil W “Senior Writer TFB”

          Oh it’s no myth. We had to stop using hot hand loads because of the “killer bullet”. An officer lost a case back in 1982. Since then PD’s have been very adamant about using issued ammo.
          This would multiply the chance of conviction ten fold.

          • Michael

            I would suggest using the same ammo as your local police department, but then you will be called a cop wannabe.
            In the Zimmerman trial they discussed his type of flashlight, it turns out it was a cheap plastic one. Not an evil “assault ” High capacity cop killing tactical version.

          • http://www.thefirearmblog.com/ Phil W “Senior Writer TFB”

            Using the same ammo as the local PD is actually a good idea.

          • Danmaku

            Handloader brought it up in this months issue I think.

        • asoro

          it’s seems to be worse today,, with our Nazi President, and the Zimmerman case. these judges are getting tougher with the person defending him self, I guess they need to keep the criminals on the streets so they stay working……

      • Ken

        Because liberals are stupid. So if it looks scary it is obviously more dangerous and should be banned. This is how they think.

        • big daddy

          Stop with the liberal BS, it has nothing to do with political association. Many libs are gun people. It’s hard to be a gun person in large cities were most libs are. People in those places are ignorant of guns because they are not allowed to have them. The media is the only place they get their info and the media has an agenda. Most libs are very nice people, misguided but nice, well meaning. You know nothing about how someone with empathy thinks Ken.

        • Jimbo

          I’ve always considered liberal gun owners suspect. Why? Liiberals are intolerant people. They don’t tolerate others religious beliefs. They don’t tolerate the cars many of us choose, or need to drive. They don’t like the food or drinks we consume. They don’t even tolerate the birth of an innocent, unborn baby. That is taking intolerance to the extreme! Certainly if a liberal believes in gun ownership, it is only for himself and other liberals. He won’t tolerate gun possession by conservatives.

      • 1911a145acp

        So you are perfectly comfortable with the Prosecutor in your county running the promo video for this ammo to a jury of 12 people too stupid to get OUT of jury duty right before your wrongful death trial begins. I don’t see how that would change things……

      • Realistic

        It’s a very real concern!
        The percieved view of a judge or jury is very real to the point that some have been seriously questioned about why did they load their own deadly ammo or why did they choose HP ammo as HP ammo is so much more deadly.

      • asoro

        it does in a court case, even if you where in the right, you will get it in civil court for sure, hey I love these kind of bullets But I stay with what my Local Law guy’s use,,, can’t go wrong there,

    • ExurbanKevin

      It’s so powerful you just need one round to stop the bad guy, so the other 32 rounds in the mag can be used as warning shots!

    • http://www.thefirearmblog.com/ Phil W “Senior Writer TFB”

      You have that 100% correct. An attorney would make hamburger out of you using this ammo

      • derfelcadarn

        No the assailant would likely make hamburger out of you for using this ammo

        • http://www.thefirearmblog.com/ Phil W “Senior Writer TFB”

          Yea via their attorney

    • obersaber

      RIP means rest in peace
      This ammo should be called go to hell and don’t come back.
      Fleschette ammo is banned by the feds

      so the RIP skirts the law by starting as one piece.
      The most dangerous gimmick I have seen in a long time!

      • Spectre

        Flechette ammunition is not banned by the feds. Flechette ammunition is however, crappy. Just like this stuff is.

    • m

      They used the full auto handgun to illustrate that there aren’t any feeding issues with the ammo. A quick read on the website would have revealed this to you.

    • asoro

      true,,, there are a few rd’s out there like that, Extreme Shock FANG FACE comes to mined. great rd but you would get sued for sure, Or get charged with using such ammo.

  • Jeff Smith

    Wouldn’t the groves on the outside of the projective result in feeding problems? It looks as if it could easily snag a feeding ramp.

    • Steve (TFB Editor)

      You are probably right. But with any rounds you have to match it to the gun.

    • http://www.thefirearmblog.com/ Phil W “Senior Writer TFB”

      That’s my biggest concern. I don’t think they’ll feed well at all. We’ll find out.

      • Jeff Smith

        Steve and Phil, thanks for the responses! Can anyone give the reason for the horizontal groves? I understand the verticle groves being needed for the bullet to separate, but I can’t figure out the need for the others.

        • jamezb

          To make it look like a pineapple grenade of course? smh

        • http://www.thefirearmblog.com/ Phil W “Senior Writer TFB”

          Honestly I can’t see any need for the horizontal grooves. Unless they intend for them to bend with impact against bone?

          If I can get some to test I will but that’s the only time you’ll see me using them. I want my rounds to expand and retain mass.

      • Panzercat

        Here’s the thing… I’m assuming (dangerous, i’m sure) that their full auto segments weren’t just for show, meaning they were performing 30 round mag dumps without a hickups. The slug remaining after seperation seemed to have pretty good ballistic gelatin penetration as well from the vid (which I don’t doubt since it apparently lacks its own expansion qualities) and assuming they didn’t goose the composition of said gel.

        Then again, the autos could be there for show and value 8 fragmenting pinholes could be effective as unicorn turds. /shrug

        • http://www.thefirearmblog.com/ Phil W “Senior Writer TFB”

          They’ll have show some honest regular speed video of the length of the gel before I can take it seriously.

      • dan citizen

        I sometimes have to unload and reload my carry gun. I fear that over time the petals (trocars?!?) would bend inwards .

        • http://www.thefirearmblog.com/ Phil W “Senior Writer TFB”

          You’re probably right. Over time and handling they would get a bit dented, spikes separate etc.

    • Patriot

      Watch the video, become un confused.

      • Jeff Smith

        Sorry, I’ve watched the video several times. Just because it the round will feed through two firearms (a Beretta 93r and a Glock 18) doesn’t mean that the round will reliably feed through any of the hundreds of other firearms on the market. The video shows two other firearms (not exactly sure of the make/model of them) firing the round, but they only show each gun fire one round and then cut away, so I wouldn’t call those examples proof of reliable feeding.

      • Jeff Smith

        Sorry, I’ve watched the video several times. Just because it the round will feed through two firearms (a Beretta 93r and a Glock 18) doesn’t mean that the round will reliably feed through any of the hundreds of other firearms on the market. The video shows two other firearms (not exactly sure of the make/model of them) firing the round, but they only show each gun fire one round and then cut away, so I wouldn’t call those examples proof of reliable feeding.

  • Gregory Markle

    I prefer the approach Lehigh Defense has taken where the bullet has four segments which fold out and are retained in a single mass. They make a 300BLK version specially designed to function at subsonic velocities also which is a nice plus.

    http://www.lehighdefense.com/index.php/shop/ammunition/maximum-expansion

    • Cymond

      Ok, that’s pretty cool.
      I first saw this concept on the 50 GI (Guncrafter Industries) pistol & ammo combo which they claim expands to a full 1 inch diameter. I didn’t know anyone else was offering similar ammo in conventional calibers.

    • bbmg

      Impressive stuff, though penetration depth of more than half of those rounds is less than optimal. From here: http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

      ‘The critical element is penetration. The bullet must pass through the large, blood bearing organs and be of sufficient diameter to promote rapid bleeding. Penetration less than 12 inches is too little, and, in the words of two of the participants in the 1987 Wound Ballistics Workshop, “too little penetration will get you killed.”‘

      As long as the primary segment still zips through the target making a caliber sized hole, I don’t see the issue with making a bunch of extra perforations away from the main wound track. Admittedly, these sub-projectiles don’t go very deep. Also, I must object to using terms like “hole saw effect” and “turbulence stabilization effect” – you’re not marketing skin cream to women f’r chrissakes.

  • rawmade

    Complete gimmick. The trocars arent going to any real damage. 6gr pieces of copper will hurt going in but wont stop or cause near enough damage tobe threatening. The only real damage will be the 50gr wadcutter thats doing the real ppenetration, which in that case a 147gr (or 124 even) traditional JHP will be much much much better

    • http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/ Travis Poulson

      Yea seems a bit gimmicky. The trocars seem to lose their energy very fast.

      • Thomas Gomez

        Physicians perspective on wounds, terminal ballistics, caliber choice, rifle vs pistol.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tku8YI68-JA

        • http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/ Travis Poulson

          Cheers, I’ll watch that when I have a spare 1/2 hour ;)

        • bbmg

          Great lecture, It makes the point that hitting the CNS is critical, the emphasis should be on hit probability.

          This means that something like this is technically more effective than 1911…

          https://www.masterpiecearms.com/prodimages/MPA22SST%20angle.jpg

      • derfelcadarn

        Basic physics

    • SRF

      Not threatening nor damaging? You are the first person to claim that being shot by a bullet is not dangerous. You may be an idiot.

  • Zapp Brannigan

    Do we really need another evil bullet to get people to think the pro-gun side is a bunch of violent lunatics? Are there zombie-like criminals running around that just won’t go down from conventional hollowpoints which make these bullets necessary?

    • Jack Morris

      Balls of lead or copper are not evil.
      Guns are made for the sole purpose of putting devastating holes in things. One of the primary driving forces that moves firearm innovation forward is the goal of putting bigger and deeper holes into things in the most efficient way possible.

      It is a logical step of prgression in the industry to attept at improving the lethality of a common defensive cartridge. Why shouldnt the industry improve upon existing designs? We arent going to get a cookie from “Moms Demand Stuff and Things Because muh Feelings”,by halting the innovation of modern ballistics.

      While I agree that their marketing is less than tastefull, there is no honesty in pretending that the Gold Dots in a cops sidearm or the Federal HST’s in my CCW pistol aren’t all produced for the same “end game”. The only “humane” bullet is the one that provides the target with a swift end to the pain from being shot. Where the anti’s and the pro gunners really disagree is whether the State should be the only ones deciding who gets shot.

      Tldr: I applaud this company for continuing to innovate. It drives the market.

      • bbmg

        With “new” firearms coming out every week chambered for cartridges that were designed before the manufacturers were even born, ammunition development is what we need – and somehow pretending that we are not trying to make firearms more lethal doesn’t help anyone.

        • Jack Morris

          Agreed, but it’s all about small improvements that can again be improved upon later. If it weren’t for modern weapon design’s, we wouldn’t be utilizing the benefit of firearms capable of +p ammunition. Its why the 9mm still has a leg to stand on as a defensive cartridge.

          I do agree that we’ve pushed the brass case, lead ball, and smokeless propellant combo about as far as it can go. The chemistry and physics behind the pressure produced from conventional ammunition is approaching a stale-mate. Caseless ammo is likely the future, but I have to admit that I’m glad it’s not commonplace yet. I really like handloading ;)

          • Sulaco

            Plazma rifle in 40 watt range please!

          • Karina

            To be honest, even without +P, the 9mm has a leg to stand on simply by tending to be the affordable, common cartridge choice in which handguns chambered for it have the highest capacity, and standard pressure 9mm has lower recoil. For those of us who aren’t megastrong hulks, or female shooters such as myself, it’s an important aspect. I much prefer to have 17 chances at taking down my target and knowing I’ll have reasonable ability to be on target, than 12 or less and muzzle rise that goes higher than the freaking Mount Everest.

            Of course, I’m exaggerating a lot, but point = made.

          • derfelcadarn

            But the basic physics cannot work. Heavy bullet moderate velocity good energy, light bullet hyper velocity good energy. Energy requires a combination of speed and mass, more of one less of the other is OK. Less of both as we see here(no hyper velocity) is a recipe for failure in a gun fight. The velocity needed to make this work would make recoil muzzle blast and jump not worth the trade off. I really like reloading also.

        • derfelcadarn

          More lethal no problem. This ammo does not qualify, at best this ammo causes shallow wound trauma, that does not equate to stopping power. When it comes down to shooting a person if you are shooting to wound them you are not serious about surviving the altercation. That may sound crass but your survival is the primary goal, is it not ?

      • sdelcegno

        other than CNC machine this design is old. it will also perform piss poor.

      • BryanS

        Most attorney’s role in this world is to put a devastating hole in your pocketbook, and put you in jail.

        Sadly, you have to go against the misinformed “I got nothing better to do” juror these days, as most people would rather not sit on a jury, and deliberating sides may not want a liberty minded educated person on a jury.

        • Jack Morris

          I dont disagree at all. Its a shame what our justice system can do to ruin an innocent persons life who was forced to act in defense.
          However, I welcome any product that increases my chance of survival in a defensive scenario. Ya gotta survive the encounter to even give those lawyers a chance to hang you.
          I dont like the philosophy of intentionally handicapping ones self in the effort to please sharky prosecutors.

      • Sulaco

        Its not about end game. Its about PR and how this will be used against you in the legal area. That is REAL world not how you want it to be, its how it is. Been there and done that for 35 years. You can not trust the courts to find the truth, its not their job. This is a legal disaster waiting for its first victim.

    • Giolli Joker

      They’ll do 12 ga slugs as well… because, you know, without these bullets 12 ga is barely better than a puny 25 ACP in a defense scenario…

    • Ian Thorne

      “Are there zombie-like criminals running around that just won’t go down from conventional hollowpoints which make these bullets necessary?”

      Yes, they are called drug addicts. People on meth and PCP have been known to take an amazing amount of damage and keep going. More damage than what would send a normal person into shock.

      • Cymond

        Yes, but the answer to those cases is not a shallow-penetrating round with performance based on shock. In those cases, I personally would want a round with reliable penetration and decent expansion. The only way to stop a person who doesn’t feel pain is to forcibly shutdown their body, preferably with a hit to the CNS.

      • David Knuth

        Reaction to traumatic injury is a funny thing. I’ve seen people who have suffered severe injury, including loss of limbs or grievous bodily injury, who were so out of it or high that it barely registered. There are hundreds of documented cases where an individual is impaled with a massive object, or in a couple of cases had large wood splinters or a knife embedded in their skulls and still consciously drove themselves to the ER for treatment (in the case of the knife, the patient came in 4 years following the injury complaining of a headache with no knowledge the knife blade was still in his head).

        Psychological reaction to gunshot wounds, likewise, is both unreliable and unpredictable. Some gunshot victims are mentally incapacitated by the sound of the gunshot and are never actually shot. Some victims are shot and register severe pain and are overcome. Some victims are oblivious to the gunshot wounds and only notice later.

        This is why frequent and repeated doses of lead and copper are recommended until the subject is *physically* incapacitated and no longer a threat, rather than expecting a psychological reaction. If they break off because of psychological reasons, great. Otherwise, keep shooting, keep moving, and find a plan to get out of there.

        Of course, bullets like these which increase chances of failure and seem to prove less than ideal on penetration (I refuse to buy the marketing videos in terms of barrier penetration and will wait until they have been independently reviewed by a credible source), are going to reduce your efficacy by raising your risk for firearm failure and being too costly to train with.

  • Cymond

    Great, they literally have sharp spikes that separate and with the intent to cause maximum trauma. Even the worst, false hype around the Black Talons were mild compared to this. The 9 shrapnel spikes would probably be a lot of hassle for a surgeon. And the marketing is just terrible, even worse than that Xtreme Shok junk.
    I’m all in favor for more effective ammunition, but we need to be careful how we present ourselves to the outside world.

    • bbmg

      What, pretend that bullets aren’t design to cause maximum damage to living tissue?

      • bfmusashi

        If that were a true statement we’d hunt with rockets and grenades.

        • Tuulos

          Fishing with explosives isn’t unheard of but it tends to be illegal in most places. Also hunting with rockets wouldn’t work all that well, seeing that the rocket would cost more than the meat and I’m not sure if we’d be left with any meaningful amount after hitting a deer or an elk.

          • BryanS

            Very, very small rockets, and micro placed charges.

            Although hunting with a gyroget could get expensive real fast.

          • bfmusashi

            yes, and if we were concerned with inflicting maximum damage to living tissue we wouldn’t use bullets. My concern is with dropping the animal as quickly as possible so I can eat it, not putting a bunch of shrapnel in it I’ll, hopefully, dig out of it before I eat it. I don’t see it being a useful round for that.

          • Tuulos

            Difference is, using rocket launcher or grenades for self defence isn’t that good for your wellbeing, especially if the attacker is at close to very close distance.
            Besides, I’ve yet to heard someone eat his kill after a successful case of self defence so the loss of meat doesn’t come into question with human, only eatable animals.

          • bfmusashi

            Silly me, I thought we were talking about food acquisition since that was the only target mentioned in your previous post. I question the viability of this round for any purpose beyond maiming or causing a lingering death on the target. Neither of those results are effective in a self-defense situation, unless you’re in a horror movie or something and firing as you run away from the unkillable abomination trying to buy time. I do not live in a New England fishing town, so this is not a situation I prepare for.

          • Tuulos

            Well the rounds we are originally discussed are meant for self defence (or to fill the pockets of the designer) and there was the mention of inflicting maximum damage to living tissue.
            Although it’s quite likely that I just rambled sideways while apparently somehow thinkin that you talked about self defence there. I can say that I’m most likely just as confused as you are when I read my earlier post.
            I think that when hunting you should always use a good quality hunting bullet instead of a bullet that isn’t designed for hunting, even if it may be a good quality self defence bullet.

      • jdkchem

        All my bullets deliver chocolates and hugs.

      • http://www.thefirearmblog.com/ Phil W “Senior Writer TFB”

        Attorneys are good at making the uninformed believe the garbage about super killer bullets that are very horrible and only a killer uses them.

      • Cymond

        Look at all the hype and panic that surrounded the Winchester “Black Talon” ammunition. There were rumors that it was a “cop killer” bullet because the black Teflon coating supposedly made it pierce Police body armor (it didn’t, it was meant to reduce barrel fouling). The media claimed that the expanding petals were “razor sharp” and were even a danger to surgeons working on the gunshot (not true at all). And of course, shrapnel cutting a surgeon’s fingers through his glove exposes him to the risk of blood-borne diseases, so there were rumors that surgeons were afraid to work on gunshots for their own safety. Remember all that?

        And yet, there’s no controversy over the Winchester Ranger line, which is the EXACT same bullet without the Teflon or the nasty name. Even though they have the exact same terminal effect, I would much rather load my gun with “Rangers” than “Black Talons” just for the PR alone. After the fight is over, you must still survive the criminal court, civil court, and court of public opinion. Just ask Zimmerman if you don’t believe me.

        In short, marketing matters.

    • Patriot

      Not much different than 12Ga 00 Buckshot. Bang!!! Bad guy DEAD.

  • Kalle Mero

    How can the stopping power be greater with a lighter bullet?
    96 gr compare to a standard 124 gr? I call BS.

    • sianmink

      It’s probably pushing close to 1400fps, is how.

      • Giolli Joker

        Stopping power is not a scientific term… you can read it as you prefer.
        If you see it as pure kinetic energy, with higher velocity you get higher values, and this is scientific… yet it doesn’t mean that it will stop a threat any faster.
        There other empirical values that are often considered like TKO, where bullet mass, caliber and velocity all play a role, but still it’s very empirical and doesn’t describe “stopping power”.
        One way used to define stopping power was experimented in a test on live animals (goats) (I don’t remember how this test is recorded in literature) where the bullets that were causing the quickest full incapacitation of the subject were holding the highest stopping power.
        I remember a fragmenting round (Triton Quik Shok, I think) getting the lowest incapacitation time = best stopping power. One JHP bullet of rather standard mass, fragmenting in 3 equal and beefy pieces upon impact creating 3 wound channels.

        • bbmg

          Terms like “energy transfer” Border on the ridiculous. A 7.62 bullet stopped by a ballistic vest has technically transferred all its energy to your body but it won’t kill you.

          An arrow with less kinetic energy than a 22 rimfire bullet can zip right through something as big as a bear and take it down.

          “Kinetic energy does not wound. Temporary cavity does not wound. The much discussed “shock” of bullet impact is a fable and “knock down” power is a myth. The critical element is penetration. The bullet must pass through the large, blood bearing organs and be of sufficient diameter to promote rapid bleeding.”

          • Tuulos

            As the first battle of Mogadishu showed us penetration is pretty much useless without energy transfer.
            The biggest mistake I’ve seen many people do is focusing on only one aspect of terminal ballistics. The correct way is to look at the big picture, not parts of it. Penetrating at least 12 inches is meaningless if the bullet doesn’t transfer any of it’s energy to the target. Bullet rapidly tranfering all of it’s energy to the target is meaningless if the bullet doesn’t penetrate deep enough to get to the important organs.
            Temporary cavity is a very real thing, though not necessarily the fastest killer. Shock is a real thing too, but tends to be highly unreliable as people react differently to shock and the body has defensive mechanisms against it like flooding the body with adrenaline and noradrenaline. Stopping power and knock down is very hard to discuss because everyone tend to have their own meaning to the words.
            TL:DR Terminal ballistics needs to be looked at as a whole instead of focusing on one part of it. Also it’s quite hard to deeply research it in modern times.

          • bbmg

            An expanding bullet is not more effective because it “transfers more energy”, it is more effective because it makes a bigger hole.

            Shoot a drum full of water with a 22 rimfire, and a similar drum with a 45 ACP – the latter drum will empty much quicker.

            This analogy applied to a living target, make a bigger hole and it will bleed out more rapidly.

            One does need to look at the wider picture as you say, and picking on individual bullet effectiveness is not really the way to go about it. The best performing bullet in tissue is useless if it doesn’t hit the target.

            If you want a one-shot stop, you have to hit the central nervous system. If you want to improve hit probability, you want to shoot a lot of bullets fast, dumping a P90 magazine in a CQB situation is going to be more effective than slugging it out with a 44 magnum even though the bigger bullet has 3 times the energy.

      • Karina

        It actually pushes 1285 fps, according to another article, all while pretending 16 inches of penetration and a dubious 2 inch group at 25 yards. I am extremely dubious of this round’s effectiveness when it sounds like a 115 grain HP is better than that.

    • floppyscience

      There’s no such thing as “stopping power” so their claim is meaningless. That being said, so is bullet weight.

  • Jeff

    I think it’ll be interesting to compare wound channels between this and a conventional 9mm round. I reserve judgement but it seems this round has potential. If it works as advertised it fragments only after hitting and entering the target. This should generally translate to a better transference of energy and reduced opportunity for over penetration. They are working on the premise that a distributed number of smaller wound channels in addition to a single conventionally wide wound channel is a less survivable wound. I could see this simply improving the odds of catastrophically nicking something internally that might otherwise have just been missed, even if the number of small wound channel in and unto themselves don’t amount to enough.

    • bbmg

      This. As long as the main subprojectile penetrates past 12 inches, a shower of separate wound channels can only be a good thing.

      It’s a shame about the gimicky marketing, a more scientifically rigorous video would have enabled more serious scrutiny.

      • sdelcegno

        even if the main projectile penetrates 12 in whats the point? a 147 grain gold dot with penetrate more with over double the mass retention. So how does this ammo work better? other than causing less damage?

        • bbmg

          I doubt it would work better. As you say a hollowpoint that makes a single large channel is probably going to be more effective than a smaller diameter channel and a series of shallow wounds.

        • derfelcadarn

          Think about the clothing issue this maybe functional if the shooting is at the beach and the perp is wearing a Speedo, but outside of that it is only fodder for zombie movies.

  • derfelcadarn

    I am quite relieved. I know that if I am ever attacked by zucchini I will likely survive the event being armed with this.

  • derfelcadarn

    This works out to pretty much a .22 solid and 8 .177 cal BBs, sorry I’m not buying it. Penetration through clothing must be severely hampered to nonexistent. No part retains sufficient energy that I would stake my life on it. It no doubt will be very effective in movies against zombies. It is always argued that #4 bu8chshot does not have effective penetration for home defense and in using it the perp is likely to be hit with twenty .22 cal solids +, if that is ineffective how does 1 solid and 8 BBs factor at all ?

  • iksnilol

    I think I will stick to heavy hollowpoints or something.

  • sdelcegno

    such crap ammo. Light projectile with low penetration. You dont ever want your ammo to break up. You want it to retain as much mass as possible on impact. ill stick to gold dots and HST

    • tampabay

      Please don’t state your opinion’s as fact. I know first hand how segmented ammo can out perform standard hp’s. Fragmentation is a good thing if you are not planning on eating what you shoot. I have dispatched many coyotes with pre segmented 22′s. The terminal effect is blatantly improved over the heavier hp’s. I have compared back to back many types of ammo on living varmints as large as hogs to as small as squirrels. Fragmentation has always puts the animal down humanely and almost instantly for me, where a 22 hp’s and.9mm gold dots lets the vermin run off more often than not. If mass retention was the stopping factor, we all would be shooting steel bearings out of our guns.

      • sdelcegno

        First off read some papers on ballistics. I have read them all. I am not talking about hunting small animals. This is self defense ammo. In self defense ammo you want the heaviest round in whatever caliber you use. It will always penetrate the deepest and cause the most tissue damage. That is why in ballistic testing the lighter rounds always penetrate less than the heavier. According to the FBI labs first most important is penetration second is wound cavity. This ammo will offer poor performance in both. Even if it does go the min depth of 12 in that FBI reccomends. What the point? 147 grain 9mm will still go deeper while causing a much larger wound. I’m not talking out of my ass. Ballistic research will back everything I say up. This is a infomercial. Nothing more.
        And yes in self defense ammo you do not want it to fragment. If it fragments that means the hollow point petals broke off. So you are left with a slug of diminished size. Where if it didn’t break it would have made a larger wound.

        • sdelcegno
        • RocketScientist

          Using absolutes is usually a good way to detract from your credibility: “I have read them ALL”; “It will ALWAYS penetrate the deepest” “the lighter rounds ALWAYS penetrate less” (emphasis added). An aggressively argumentative attitude doesn’t help much either. Aside from the fact that what you are saying is almost impossible (you have read EVERY paper/article/book/treatise EVER written on ballistics?; a projectile with higher mass ALWAYS penetrates more than a lighter one, regardless of velocity and bullet shape?) it also just comes off as rude and uncivil. I’m not saying these bullets are going to be particularly effective, in fact I’m very skeptical of their performance in a defensive situation. But what you are angrily and rudely stating as ‘fact’ is in fact an area which is very much unsettled science. There is still much argument, among actual scientists and experts who study this topic, as to what the most important factors in determining effectiveness of defensive ammunition are, or even how to define ‘effectiveness’. The FBI use a standard that has been around for decades (the paper you reference below is 25 years old). Not because it is a perfect simulation of how a bullet will act in all situations, but because it is a rigorously defined, repeatable metric that can be applied to a wide variety of ammunition, and which bears some relation to real world use.

          • sdelcegno

            Fine go against the fbi stats and ballistics experts all of them. I really don’t care. Science and physics is what it is. Bullets haven’t changed all the much over time. Certain designs are proven. Sure some things can change. But the majoirty. of heavy hollow point rounds work the best according to the experts who live and breath this stuff. If you want to buy into this companies snake oil I really don’t care. I’ll carry proven rounds. You can carry gimmick ammo. Bet this company won’t be around within two years selling this junk. And no penetration is pretty much proven to be the most important part then wound size. People all die the same. Either from a CNS shot or bleeding out. Bigger hole deeper bleed faster.

          • Karina

            “in fact I’m very skeptical of their performance in a defensive situation”

            What part of this sentence do you not get? You aren’t reading nor understanding people who are trying to explain to you what I’m about to resume:

            YES THIS ROUND IS GIMMICKY
            NOBODY HERE DISAGREES WITH THAT
            WE DISAGREE WITH THE WAY YOU BRING YOUR POINT
            WE THINK YOUR POINT IS ASSESSED IN A HOSTILE AND EXCESSIVELY NEGATIVE WAY

            Do you get it now? No need to splatter your knowledge of ballistics. It literally doesn’t matter.

          • sdelcegno

            I actually appologise if I came off that way. I just really hate seeing products like this. One the way its marketed gives anti gun people a field day like the black talon marketing years ago. But besides that I hate snake oil. Many people don’t know about firearms or ballistics like we do. They see these ads and are willing to trust their life to this ammo. Sure it can kill. But there are much better rounds on the marker. And I hate people getting scsmmed. Especially when it could result in their death from poor performing ammo. I didn’t mean to come off as a know it all. In just seen this ammo spashed everywhere Facebook forums blogs.

          • Karina

            Oh trust me, we all do hate gimmicky rounds – those of us who are serious about personal defense, that is. I completely agree with you, it reminds me of the Black Talon controversy; a non-gun friend of mine was the one who showed me about it and opined about how “it’s soon going to be called a cop-killer round” with no small amount of sarcasm.

            Then again, it’s not really a scam as much as the other exotic rounds, it’s customers not being discerning enough to blindly trust an advertisement if they ever do that; this is a capitalist system after all: vote with your wallet. Don’t put your trust into ammunition that doesn’t have a speck of proven technology. To me it’s a fancy way to blow money for no reason.

            On the plus side, it has legitimate fun uses; just look at how it positively destroys watermelons! Rest in pieces, fruit.

          • RocketScientist

            Man, your reading comprehension skills are stellar, aren’t they? Since you apparently missed the part where I specifically said I too think this particular projectile is probably just a gimmick and is not going to be very effective, let me summarize the important part of my previous statement (using small words and simple sentence structures): I am not disagreeing with your opinion of this weird bullet. I too think it is probably crap. But when you say things that are impossible or factually wrong and say them in a rude way, that makes you look like an ass. And it weakens your argument since most people don’t give asses much credibility. It further weakens your credibility when you say things are facts, when many experts in the field disagree with them, and most (even the ones who DO agree with you) would honestly say that we don’t really know for sure one way or the other.

          • sdelcegno

            I missed the part where you said it was a gimmick. I’m responding quick on my cell phone and its not loading comments properly. I apologized above. Perhaps I was wrong to say fact. I know ballistics experts at time don’t agree. Many experts have been disproven. I think we have a general idea what works best of ammo though. But read my response above. Just this marketing rubbed me the wrong way. That’s why I came off as an ass. I realize I did though.

          • http://www.thefirearmblog.com/ Phil W “Senior Writer TFB”

            The bottom line is handgun rounds are unpredictable and not the best for defense but they are what we can carry around with us.
            Other factors are the individual being shot and his or her’s intention to keep fighting, will to live and or drugged.
            If you really want to stop a fight at fairly close distances use a shotgun.

        • S O

          You should mention all the assumptions you make.

          A steel core bullet is lighter than a solid soft lead bullet, but the steel bullet will penetrate many obstacles much better, while the soft lead bullet may even fail on some belt buckles.

          • sdelcegno

            We are talking about Pistol caliber self defense rounds in flesh. Not hard objects and penetrator rounds. I’m only repeating info from ballistic research.

          • S O

            “That is why in ballistic testing the lighter rounds always penetrate less than the heavier.”
            You wrote “always”, and that’s just not true. Besides, there are steel core pistol cartridges.

            And again, the heaviest round will not necessarily penetrate the deepest even among self-defence pistol rounds. You could try to restrict this to bullets of one kind (say, only hollow point), but even then it’ll be possible to find a lighter bullet that goes deeper because of such simple factors as less deformation that yields less resistance.

            You’re writing about a mere rule of thumb as if it was required by a nature’s law.
            And all that ballistic research is typically only comparing a couple different cartridges at once. I’ve never heard of a database for almost all cartridges with compatible test results. Terminal ballistics is a patchy science, and not suitable for such “always” statements.

          • sdelcegno

            Some rounds do fail to penetrate depending on design this is true even if its a good weight. Critital defense rounds for instance perform poorly. I stated above I shouldn’t have stated such absolute wording. You would be surprised though. There is lots of good indepedent Testing on almost all rounds made to compare to one another.

      • David Knuth

        And yet, there is literally no data to back this up.

        Of the thousands of cases of shootings per year, over the past 25 years since the original segmented and sintered rounds were designed, I have yet to see more than a bare handful where those rounds were used, much less were successful.

        This is backed up in innumerable texts and observations by experts such as Dr. Gary Roberts, Dr. Martin Fackler, Dr. Vincent Di Maio, and many others.

        There are many factors to wound ballistics, and to shots taken in self defense. Where a hunter gets to choose his shot, a self defense shooter does not. Likewise, self defense shootings often involve heavy clothing or the need to shoot through extremities or intermediate barriers, on odd angles, and so on. Under perfect conditions, a round that separates at a predetermined depth is “better” because it can do more damage to organ structures than a single monolithic projectile that only cuts one path through.

        However, given that the tradeoff to this is lack of penetration, shallow depth of fragmentation, etc, mean you need a perfect shot, you’re less likely to be effective with such a round.

        Mass retention is not the key to efficacy, necessarily. It’s energy-retention which leads to greater penetration and reduced chances of the bullet traveling off course and missing the intended section of the target.

        Case in point a police officer who found himself faced with a criminal whom he had shot a few times with a 185gr .45 ACP round. The rounds struck the offender in his outstretched arm, deflected off of bone, and traveled up the arm rather than passing through the arm and entering the chest cavity.

        Choose what works best for your situation. For self defense, you want a single projectile which goes as deep as possible while making the biggest hole possible.

        I would also like to suggest that if 9mm gold dots are ineffective against varmint animals, you consider that perhaps the 9mm gold dot, whether the 127 +P+ or the 147gr standard velocity, may just not have the power to take down the animal and a larger caliber is called for.

        But, what do I know? I’ve only been hunting for years and have seen the results of many a person who assumed their load of choice was adequate for game that called for something with more power. And reviewing ballistics and gunshot cases. And reading/studying pathology and terminal effects.

  • Marc

    Fragmenting ammo can be very effective, if the fragments penetrate sufficiently on their own. I seriously doubt the fragments of this round penetrate deep enough in tissue (rather than watered-down gel or fruit) to be effective.

    • http://www.thefirearmblog.com/ Phil W “Senior Writer TFB”

      Agreed– I’ve seen this and the small and fast bullets come and go to often.

    • derfelcadarn

      Fragmentation weapons and ammo have been around for centuries they are commonly referred to as shotguns, they have been, are and will continue to be very effective.

  • Tuulos

    I don’t care if it works or not, I just want to see what it does to ballistic gel.

  • ExurbanKevin

    I’m waiting for a gel test through fabric (preferably the same four layers that the FBI uses) before I’ll give it a thumbs up or down. For me, though, good shot placement and Hornady XTP’s top the latest wiz-bang bullet.

  • David Knuth

    Oh joy. Another over-priced, untested gimmick which will no doubt cause flocks of money to be parted from spenders, outrage in the media, and ultimately more bad press for gun owners.

    Handgun rounds do not generate sufficient velocity to cause any damage beyond physical damage. Light projectiles have a tendency to deflect or lose momentum quickly, especially following catastrophic loss of mass.

    Flechette ammo was tested and thoroughly debunked. Fragmenting and snakeshot ammo for handguns were tested and debunked. Add this to the growing pile of wonderbullets.

    I’ll stick with proven designs like HST or Ranger.

    • Cymond

      What is the velocity threshold for serious damage beyond simply poking caliber-sized holes?
      Because I recently saw some 50gr 9mm ammo that promised 2,000 fps out of a 4″ barrel. I’m curious what it would do out of a full 16″ carbine barrel (since light bullets tend to benefit more from increased barrel length).

      • David Knuth

        Edited: At around 2500 FPS, I’ve observed and noted in studies of rifle wounds, that the displacement of tissue due to the temporary cavity is great enough that tissue stretches beyond the point at which no damage to the tissue occurs, and there are incidents of damage, bleeding, and tearing in this tissue which is not caused by the primary wound channel.

        Thank you, SO, for pointing out my mistake. :)

        • S O

          I don’t think “cavitation” means what you think it means. The same applies to “elasticity”. And “some degree of damage” is a meaningless expression.

          • David Knuth

            You’re right, I misused cavitation. I was operating under a false definition. So, shall we agree on turbulence then? Not sure what term to use here in place of it.

            Elasticity is the property of many soft tissues to stretch without disruption or damage. Notably the kidneys and liver are non elastic tissues more susceptible to damage.

            And if one reviews the effects on tissues struck by rifle cartridges, there is bleeding and tearing of tissues not associated with the damage done in the wound channel itself, due to stretching and disruption from the shock wave, if you prefer that term.

            Look it up.

          • S O

            No; cavitation is the creation of gas-filled cavities. It’s not much about movement; pressure may lead to cavitation. Cavitation is no wave and not similar to waves either.

            “overtakes natural elasticity”
            There’s a term for what you call “elasticity” here, and it’s not “elasticity”.
            I’m no native English speaker and not sure about the translation, but according to dict.leo.org you may have meant offset yield strength, elastic limit, yield point, tensile elastic limit, tensile yield point, tension elastic limit or tension yield point.

            “Elasticity” is in this context the ratio between stress and the non-permanent deformation it causes. This, by definition, cannot be “overtaken”, as it is by definition not a limit.

            As expected, you’re basically talking about the temporary wound cavity here. The effects from the temporary wound cavity/channel are still contentious AFAIK.

          • David Knuth

            Elastic limit is what I meant, thanks. Sorry about that.

            And as I said up-thread, there is a point at which there is damage done to tissue that is not directly caused by the bullet, which as far as I have read, is done by the actual stretching of tissues beyond their elastic limit. You know, basically stretching them to the point that they rupture and tear.

            This isn’t to be confused with the so-called hydrostatic shock, which is basically suggesting that the pressure wave generated by the bullet during its passage causes damage to remote systems by compressing fluid mediums, if I remember the literature right.

            You stretch meat enough, it rips open, that’s logical. The idea that a pressure wave is generated that is capable of passing through the body and doing damage in remote areas is not.

          • S O

            “You’re right, I misused cavitation. I was operating under a false
            definition. So, shall we agree on turbulence then? Not sure what term to
            use here in place of it.”
            So you edited this?

            Fine, I think what you’re talking about is temporary wound cavity, and that’s what those who paid attention to terminal ballistics will easily recognize as a term.

          • David Knuth

            Well, temporary wound cavity would describe the displacement cavity itself (which is often seen in ballistics gel following the bullet’s initial impact), but I was going for the actual force of the shock wave, if you will, as it displaced and stretches tissues radially from the actual wound channel itself.

            So, yes, Temporary Cavity, is what we’ll settle on.

            And yes, after I posted my reply, I went back, double checked, found you were right, and acknowledged that. Is that not what one does when one makes a mistake of terminology?

            Anyway, the point remains the same: Above around 2500 FPS, in my reading and reviews (and I am no expert, I bow to Di Maio, Roberts, Fackler, et al. all day long on that), it’s been my observation that tissue will see ancillary damage not caused directly by the projectile itself traversing through tissue, but instead by the temporary cavity created by the passage of the bullet, there is more damage done than simply done by the projectile, leading to the much greater efficacy of rifle rounds over handguns.

            I don’t think that’s in dispute, unless you’re one of those who buy into “hydrostatic shock” and the effects on remote tissue structures of this phenomenon (which, as far as I know was only ever supported by one study on goats, and has not to my knowledge been repeated or verified outside of that study).

            Bottom line, which I think we can both agree on: the temporary cavity and any pressure wave that passes through tissue as a result of the traversal of the bullet, is not in and of itself sufficient to offer any benefits over a solid projectile of sufficient mass and velocity, since bullets with sharp corners and flat front surfaces will already tend to tear nasty holes through and let blood out of structures in a fairly efficient manner.

            Where I think a load like this might shine is if the cast-off projectiles could somehow maintain sufficient velocity to themselves travel more than a few inches, much like a 5.56mm rifle round that fragments is capable of.

            So, I think we’re on the same page, I just think I was using the wrong term with regards to “Cavitation”.

            No need to get rude :)

      • dan citizen

        Sadly many rounds, regardless of design, merely produce a calber sized hole.

        I was at a conference once and heard a lecture from a big city coroner. He had conducted hundreds of gun death autopsies over a long career.

        He was unimpressed by the difference between handgun ammo and showed many slides and x-rays where you could not distinguish between wounds caused by .380 and .45

        He concluded that sometimes, some rounds produce better results, but if you want real stopping power you’d better grab a rifle or shotgun.

    • Anon. E Maus

      It’s not that flechettes can’t be used effectively, it’s just that they’re completely goddamn useless out of the barrel of a gun (they’re WAY too sensitive to wind).

      That said, these RIP things are just worthless; the base/wadcutter (the one that holds the “trocars”) has about the same wounding capabilities as a .22LR segmented round, and the “trocars” themselves, produce about the same wounding as a spoon of birdshot, ergo, an ugly, but less than relevant fleshwound. This is out of a 9x19mm centerfire cartridge.

      Ergo, when you buy a box of RIP’s, you’re paying top dollars for rounds that would be, and should be, considered far below adequate. I’d rather trust a .32ACP FMJ to this, at least those have been proved to be able to kill Hitler.

  • Jeremy Star

    It is to laugh.

    I kept waiting for him to say “I’m Batman” at the end. This round brought to you by G2 Research, a division of Wayne Corp.

  • Shifty Bitwise

    How soon until there are breathless reports of “Killer” bullets…or “Super lethal”….or (gasp) COP KILLER !!11!! bullets on the news? Followed by Nanny-Bloomberg and the rest of the left wing munchkins calling for a ban.

    I think the body count for the “Devastator” was exactly one.

    Sigh

  • Karina

    People STILL have not learned the lesson about exotic rounds??? I thought that fad was over. And no amount of Battle Duty Call of Elite-sounding ads with full battery of dramatic voices, music, and fancy Beretta 93Rs and Glock 18Cs NOBODY WILL EVER FUCKING USE in a typical home defense scenario in America, EVER… can change that.

  • Ben Wong

    can anyone tell me what will happen legally if u shoot someone (Zimmerman style) with this ammo ? I have a feeling the lawyers/prosecutor will be all up in ur (_*_) with this ammo .. hope u can afford O.J. dream team defense

  • J

    I love guns but sometimes the marketing just sucks….

  • S O

    The problem about near-instant incapacitation is the need to hit the central nervous system (brain, upper spine). Most other quickly lethal (incapacitating) hits depend on the unfortunate target bleeding to unconsciousness instead. Determined (or drugged, including adrenaline rush) opponents will keep fighting for a while after taking a mortal bleeding hit.

    The ‘charm’ of multi-projectile (duplex, triplex, buckshot) cartridges and some cartridges which separate into multiple parts on impact in soft tissue is that there are multiple chances to hit the CNS. A near miss of the upper spine may still hit it.

    The video doesn’t show scale, but it suggests that the separation of the spikes is early enough to make this effect meaningful within 8″. Many rifle bullets have tumbling or breaking_up effects in soft tissue, but few have much of this effect early enough. Often times the tumbling or fragmentation only happens as the projectile is already producing the exit wound – resulting in a huge exit wound and a more rapier-like damage ahead of it.

    From a surgeon’s point of view, such ammo with separating spikes is a nightmare. The spikes appear to be too weak to leave overweight torsos, so all of them would need to be found (to see what damage they did) and potentially removed.

    The police is not going to make good use of this cartridge; a hit on an extremity would split the bullet and the spikes would disperse, but the potential of this hitting innocent bystanders is unacceptably high. Or in other words; it would be better to hold fire often times because of said risk if such ammo was loaded. Training shouldn’t be ammo-sensitive and rest a lot on reflexes, so this bullet design would cause unacceptable trouble to police officers.

  • ColaBox

    Terrible name, interesting design and concept. Id like to think these have some merit in future rifle rounds.

  • Kyle

    You’re telling me these jokers can get brass, copper, powder, and primers to make their gimmicky garbage when better ammo is nonexistent? I implore whoever invented and produces this to give their materials to someone who makes a product worth buying

  • JT

    The sad thing is, I can see DA’s playing this to a Jury on a self defense trial. This would be like a slam dunk for them. Everything from the narration to the animation to the visuals of stuff practically exploding

  • Zebra Dun

    “With Malice aforethought” Use of frangible bullets could be used to show a shooter had malice to cause murder or death.
    Use of FMJ would cause the one shot to complain about military ammo used.
    Target ammo, semi wadcutters and wad cutters would show the shooter was only planning to shoot paper targets hence be innocent of premeditated murder with malice.
    I use what is accurate in my weapons, ya gots to hit for the bullet to do it’s job no matter what the type or effect desired.
    The snub gets light hydroshocks for the wife, the Lawman Mk III gets SJHPL and the 1911A1 gets FMJ.
    Function, reliability and accuracy is what I seek not some kill-O-zap super fast expanding bullet designed from a medical instrument.

    • maodeedee

      Quote: “With Malice aforethought” Use of frangible bullets could be used to show a shooter had malice to cause murder or death.”

      Oh, so you mean of you’re shooting someone with a 45 Auto loaded with hardball ammo and you empty the gun into center mass of your attacker, that by virtue of using non-frangible ammo, you’re doing so WiTHOUT malicious intent to cause murder or death or maybe even both?

      That defies logic! Dianne Feinstein, is that YOU?

  • Xaun Loc

    YAWN. Yet another company “invents” the pre-fragmented bullet. (Maybe I should take out a patent on a “Circular Rotary Transport Device” and call is something catchy like a “Wheel”)

    For a real demonstration of the incompetence behind this development, watch the G2R RIP 2014 video above, and listen to the idiot explaining how the points on the bullet have a “hole saw effect” when the spinning bullet hits something. Apparently there are still a few people who cannot comprehend that no bullet ever spins fast enough for any kind of “hole saw effect” because the bullet is moving forward too fast for the spin to be meaningful. Remember, the spin is controlled by the twist rate of the rifling, With a 1:16 twist rate, the bullet is moving forward 16 inches for every revolution.

  • Levi B

    Producers of more traditional hollow points have been working very hard for years to keep their projectiles in one piece. The name of the game is imparting as much force on your target as possible, because everything else is a gamble.

    Amazing lesson in marketing though.

  • maodeedee

    “Ya gotta have a gimmick”

    Americans have been conditioned by advertising for far too long and keep falling for the same come-on that there’s a always a new improved product with some magic property that will preform beyond the limits of the imagination.

    But everything that looks super impressive when shot through a block of Jello in slow motion on Youtube should not be taken as hard ballistic science.

    In the real world years of R&D have resulted in things like the Speer Gold dot bonded bullet and the Hornady Critical duty controlled expansion projectile of far greater mass which transmits a great deal more kinetic energy than this “new, Improved, works just like magic” miracle product.

    And in developing the most effective ammo in 9mm caliber the technology has evolve from the lighter weigh projectiles to heavier ones whe 124 grain has now proven to be more effective than 115 grains and the Hornady critical duty Plus+P has even gone to a 135 grain bullet to enhance performance.

  • Dave

    How much did it cost to get Batman to do the voice work?
    The voice work made this video hard to take seriously.

  • Irvin Bennet

    I just wrote an article on gimmick ammo and concluded that only time will tell gimmick from innovation.

  • bbmg

    The Daily Mail has gone with an interesting perspective: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2547765/New-devastating-hollow-R-I-P-bullet-dubbed-round-need-released-single-women-protect-homes.html

    some amazing quotes:

    “The company’s president, Cliff Brown explained to the Blaze that a scared and lonely housewife worried about protecting her home is one of the target customer bases for the terrifying new ammunition.

    ‘I wanted to create a round that would work well against a home intruder,’ said company president Cliff Brown told the Blaze.

    ‘There were so many stories out there about a woman trying to defend her home and having to shoot someone five or six times and they’d still come after her.

    ‘We wanted to create an effective one-shot man-stopper.’

    However, despite its power, the bullet is not capable of penetrating level 3A body armor – which is what law enforcement officials wear.

    ‘That was one of our main goals when designing this bullet,’ he told the Blaze.

    However, according to weapons enthusiast and political blogger, Richard Rowe, the new bullets bear an uncanny resemblance to Flechette bullets used in the Vietnam war but now banned under the Hague COnvention.”

  • James Roberts

    THis round will be immediately banded for public purchase. It’ll go the way of the Black Talon round. Or it’ll be available to military or law enforcement only before completely disappearing.. Hell, the public can’t even get .22 for squirrel hunting.

  • Realistic

    This looks like it could be a very good self-defence round. What I think is in very poor taste is the “R.I.P.” name. If I really needed to use this round in a self-defense situation it would be very awkward saying that name to a jury or police detective. The connotation is that of a mall ninja using zombie ammo.

  • davidperterson3962@gmail.com

    Are these effective for quail?

  • Xaun Loc

    At least TFB didn’t copy-&-paste the entire press release from this ridiculous company, like several other online sites did. This may be exactly the right ammo — if you expect to be attacked by a herd of wild pumpkins, watermelons, or perhaps cantaloupes. Results in ballistic gelatin are significantly less impressive.

    I didn’t bother watching the company’s video here (I’ve seen it before) but from the other comments, it is the same video they have on their website and that they passed out to anyone who would repost their press release. The funniest part is the total BS about the round having a holesaw effect with the teeth on the spinning bullet (apparently no one working at G2Research ever researched the fact that bullets move forward faster than they spin around).