Gun Review: Taurus CT9 Carbine

Taurus CT9, with mud

Taurus has released a new 9mm carbine onto the US market, which prompts the question: why do people buy 9mm carbines?

Taurus CT9 Carbine

As I see it, the interest in this type of gun comes from two main groups: folks with tactical reasoning in mind, and purely recreational shooters. For the former, 9mm carbines offer magazine compatibility with a service pistol, and allow greater range and accuracy than that pistol while still being within the confines of a small cartridge. For the latter group, pistol-caliber carbines are simply great fun at the range, being lighter than full size rifles, cheaper to shoot, and with negligible recoil. I understand both motivations, and so I’ll be looking at the CT9 with both groups of potential buyers in mind.

First, let’s address the elephant in the room with the CT9: its magazines. Clearly, Taurus does not understand its target market, because the CT9 uses a proprietary magazine design, and only makes them with a 10 round capacity. They could have designed the carbine to use one of their existing pistol magazine designs (like the Beretta CX4 does), or to use an existing and readily available design (like Uzi mags, which the CT-9 mags are fairly similar to), or simply bowed to market reality and made them for one or more dominant pistol mag designs like Glock mags (as the KelTec Sub-200 did). Instead, Taurus picked the worst possible choice, and leaves us with nothing but expensive single-source 10-rounders (I called up Taurus to ask them why they did this, but have not yet heard back). This isn’t such a big deal for the recreational shooter, but it will drive most of the tactical market away. I suspect sure some executive thought it would be smart to just make everything California-compliant, but they are wrong. Sorry, Taurus.

Setting aside the magazine issue, let’s take a look at the other features of the CT9…

Construction

The CT9 is a basic blowback design, which is pretty much standard for pistol-caliber carbines dating back to WWI. It uses an extruded aluminum upper (bonus points for good use of manufacturing tech – the FN SCAR does this too) and a polymer lower and furniture. The lower has a couple thin steel plates on the outside to make it feel like it’s all metal, but they are just aesthetic. Basically, a steel bolt, trunnion, and barrel in a polymer and aluminum shell. Not bad; that helps minimize overall weight.

Sights

The aluminum upper assembly includes a full-length Picatinny rail, so it is simple to attach any sort of iron or optical sight system you prefer. Stock, it comes with a pair of plastic “iron” sights. I’m not particularly happy with them, though. The front sight is a big square post inside a circular protective hood, but it’s not centered in the hood – it’s lower than the center. The rear sight has two setting to flip between, an aperture and a square notch. The aperture would be the better choice in most cases, except for that issue of the front post not being centered. You can’t line up the round aperture with the round front sight hood, because the front post isn’t centered in it. Instead, you have to focus on getting the front post centered in the rear aperture, ignoring the front hood, which your brain really wants to line up with the aperture.

Taurus CT9 front sight

I found it more effective to slide the rear sight about 8 inches forward on the gun and use the square notch option. This provides a sight configuration like a pistol. It was easier to use that way, but not as precise as a proper aperture sight setup would have been. Why didn’t Taurus center the front post in its hood? I don’t know.

Taurus CT9 rear sight

Controls

Some thought definitely did go into making the CT9 a very lefty-friendly design. The charging handle is mounted forward on the upper assembly, but with the right size hex key it can be swapped to either the right or left side. The bolt holdopen and release is copied from the AR (point for tactical shooters) and is mounted on both the right and left sides of the gun for ambidextrous use (extra bonus point). The safety is also ambidextrous, operates the correct way (flip down to fire), and is reachable (barely, but it is) from a firing grip for me (more points!).

Straight off an AR - hold the bottom to lock open; smack the top to drop the bolt

Straight off an AR – hold the bottom to lock open; smack the top to drop the bolt

The CT9 does lock open on an empty magazine, and its magazine release is a paddle type located behind the mag. Magazines do drop free as long as you hold the paddle all the way in.

The trigger is “meh”. It’s a long single-stage design with a reasonably light letoff. I would rather have either minimal initial takeup (the distance you pull before reaching the point where it fires) or a proper two-stage setup (where the initial takeup is light and then the pull becomes heavier before firing). Given that this is not going to be on the line at Camp Perry, the trigger isn’t really an issue, but it would have been nice to see more effort go into it, given the MSRP for the CT9.

Furniture

As I mentioned above, the furniture on the CT9 is all polymer. The front end is good, with coarse ribs for a good grip, and texturing on the front of the magazine well for folks who prefer to hold it there. A polymer rail is molded into the bottom for mounting a light, and threaded holes are included for adding more rail sections to the sides if you want them. A sling mounting point is located below the front sight, and is reversible if you want it on the left side instead.

The pistol grip is copied from the AR, and is fine. The stock, sadly, is clearly a California-inspired thumbhole kludge. The operating parts of the gun are all contained in the upper assembly, so there is no mechanical reason why a good folding or collapsing stock couldn’t be mounted, except that Taurus doesn’t want to do the extra work of manufacturing folding stocks in the US (import laws prevent them from being made in Brazil this way).

Handling

There are two basic ways to lay out a pistol-caliber carbine: with the magazine in the pistol grip (Beretta CX4, KelTec Sub-2000) or ahead of it (Thompson, HK USC). Taurus chose to put the CT9 magazine well ahead of the grip and trigger. This moves all of the operating parts several inches forward, which has some good and some bad consequences. The good is that it generally allows the use of a folding stock – which Taurus decided not to use. The bad is that is moves the balance point of the gun forward and increases the overall length. Thanks to the minimal weight of the CT9 stock, it balances too far forward, and feels heavier than it really is (which, at 7.4 pounds, is still heavier than most other 9mm carbines). The length of pull on the stock is also rather long, and leaves the gun feeling uncomfortable for smaller statured people. Of course, I’ve heard from taller people complaining about fit on other 9mm carbines, so this may be ones of those cases where you can’t please everyone (unless you have a multi-position collapsing stock…which Taurus decided not to use).

Accuracy

I didn’t shoot the CT9 for groups on paper, as that’s not really what it’s made for. Instead I took it out plinking at rocks on a makeshift range, and it was perfectly acceptable, hitting everything I took aim at. The adjustments to windage and elevation on the stock rear sight are pretty rudimentary, requiring an allen key to use, but they work. Most buyers will probably mount red dot optics on a gun like the CT9 – the gun is really begging for it.

Reliability

All of my testing was done with generic factory reloaded 9mm, and I had no functioning problems of any kind, I’m happy to report. With all the ambivalency I was finding with the CT9, I was hoping for something I could point out as being very good. So, I asked them if I could try running it through a mud test (the area where I shoot has a mix of clay and volcanic ash that makes a really disgusting gloopy mud when wet). Well…they took a long time to respond to me, and I got impatient and did it anyway, figuring that it was unlikely to actually damage the gun. I got a response the very next morning, saying that they did not want me to do it. Um…whoops. Guess they should have been more prompt. Anyway, I have video of the mud test I did for you to see:

I’m happy to say that it passed just fine! So there is something the Taurus is pretty good at. I know people will say I should have tried it again with the bolt open, but no gun would have passed that – and you shouldn’t be walking around with the bolt open anyway is falling into mud is a possibility. Keep it closed on an empty chamber.

Conclusions

Unfortunately, the CT9 is a gun that missed several opportunities to really shine. The limited magazines and thumbhole stock will really limit its interest to the tactical shooting community, despite the work Taurus put into the control to make it appealing to that group. For the recreational shooter it looks better (especially taller folks), but the MSRP of $900 will be a daunting obstacle to many sales. As of this writing, they are selling on auction sites for more like $650, which is more reasonable but still more expensive than some of the competing products from other companies.

If you are in the market for a 9mm carbine, you should definitely give the Taurus consideration. While it may not fulfill all of its potential, there is nothing actually bad about it. All my complaints are along the lines of “this works fine but I wish it also (blank)”. That doesn’t make for a rave review, but it does make for a dependable working firearm. In today’s world of overhyped marketing and spotty QC, the Taurus CT9 was a refreshingly honest piece of machinery. It does what it says, and doesn’t try to go overboard. The question for the buyer is, does it do what you want a carbine to do for a price tag you’re willing to pay?

Related

Ian McCollum

Ian McCollum lives in Arizona, where he spends his time searching out rare, unusual, and experimental firearms for his daily blog at ForgottenWeapons.com. His shooting background is in bullseye pistol, and before becoming a full-time gun writer he worked in the solar power industry.


More In: Reviews, Rifles


Advertisement

  • Julio

    Nice review Ian – I like the tactic of politely pointing out the gun’s faults in the middle and then doing your best to be positive at the end – by which stage it is most unlikely that anyone will still be interested in buying this gun. Let’s hope the guys at Taurus read the review and take some of your comments on board for next time!

    • Paul White

      Amen. I was so bummed by this. I want a good 9mm or 45 ACP carbine. Or hell, 10mm with hot loads (that could be fun!) but this doesn’t seem like it

      • http://www.thefirearmblog.com/ Phil W “Senior Writer TFB”

        No company is going to chamber a new gun in 10mm. It’s considered a niche round. I like them but I never expect one to be made in something new like this Taurus. It always goes 9mm then a 40 followed by a 45. That’s about all you can expect.

        • sianmink

          I wonder if with just a new barrel a .45 chambered carbine could be made to fire 40 Super. That sounds like fun.

          • Jay

            I think an M1 carbine-like platform scaled down to handle 10mm using Glock or Uzi-type magazines would fare well on the market, possible bear mountain carbine?

          • sianmink

            I think there WOULD be a market for a powerful, high capacity, non-tacticool pistol-caliber carbine, (bonus points if it comes in under 6 pounds loaded) and the M1 Carbine pattern is certainly a popular one. I can’t think of anything similar on the market today.

          • wetcorps

            The Marlin Camp Carbine looks like it, but I’m not sure it is still in production.

          • st4

            I’d buy one! So long as it doesn’t break the bank.

          • http://www.thefirearmblog.com/ Phil W “Senior Writer TFB”

            Hum–my first thought is no. I think that’s a gunsmith question

  • Jack Morris

    Hmmmm, almost 8lbs, 10 round proprietary mags, non adjustable thumbhole stock, crappy sights, a “meh” trigger, long overall length, and fairly pricey.
    It’s almost like Taurus set out to design a 9mm carbine that nobody wants.

    • percynjpn

      It would seem you are right – it’s also ugly as hell!

      • Clint Notestine

        it looks like a bad scifi movie gun

        • Steve (TFB Editor)

          Actually the black version it is quite a nice looking carbine (in my opinion). I have a soft spot for 9mm carbines. Greatly unappreciated in my opinion.

          • noob

            Hey Steve, would you want to do a “send in a sketch of your ultimate no-compromise pistol caliber carbine” competition on tfb?

            maybe that laser sintering Solid Concepts company might print the metal bits for it free as a marketing stunt, and then you could print the polymer receiver bits on a rep-rap derivative like a LeBigRep, and apply commercially bought magpul furniture to taste.

            Nobody has to actually fire it without the aid of a very long string, but you’d make history.

            http://reprap.org/wiki/LeBigRep

          • DiverEngrSL17K

            Perhaps part of the initial perception of “ugly” came about from a visceral reaction to that mud-caked example being field-tested in the first photograph? The clean, unfettered illustrations of the same gun reveal it to be no less attractive ( or unattractive, depending on the individual point of view ) than a Beretta CX4 Storm or Hi-Point 995TS. Personally, I think it is certainly not ugly at all — but then again, the second-generation Hi-Point 995TS is visually quite appealing to me in an almost visceral sort of way, and in spite of all the other high-end ( and visually attractive ) firearms I own, so it’s just my two cent’s worth. I’ve also found the Hi-Point to be sturdy, 100% reliable under arduous field conditions, simple, accurate, ergonomic and well-balanced, so maybe this has something to do with it too.

    • dan citizen

      and it will still sell..

      • http://www.thefirearmblog.com/ Phil W “Senior Writer TFB”

        Yes it will.

    • http://www.thefirearmblog.com/ Phil W “Senior Writer TFB”

      Taurus also sent me one when they sent Ian his test gun. I started not to shoot it since it wasn’t my review. I couldn’t stand it sitting in the corner unfired.
      I took it out and shot it a good deal.
      I’ve never owned a pistol caliber carbine but I have to admit it was fun. I took it out several times after that. It never missed a beat and like most I mounted an optic on it first thing. I never even messed with the iron sights.

      • DiverEngrSL17K

        While the stock plastic “iron” sights appear to leave a lot to be desired ( per Ian’s review ), they are at least mounted on the top Picatinny rail and can easily be replaced by any of a wide range of quality after-market sights. I will say, though, that for the asking price, Taurus could have at least installed some cost-effective but good-quality sights, eg., Magpul MBUS or Leapers UTG detachable low-profile adjustable AR sights.

        • http://www.thefirearmblog.com/ Phil W “Senior Writer TFB”

          I agree. I can’t see that it would have added any cost to the gun using Magpul polymer sights.

      • DiverEngrSL17K

        Phil, would it not be in order to do an article based on your experiences with the same weapon as a sort of parallel / comparator to Ian’s article? We all know and acknowledge that two different testers under different or even similar conditions could possibly arrive at somewhat different conclusions, but that is the way it seems to work in the firearms world. The important thing is that we will have two different respected professional viewpoints on the same baseline topic that could furnish some important factual insights, when all is said and done, into the Taurus and its idiosyncrasies as well as its positive aspects.

  • nadnerbus

    Even California residents don’t want full on California compliant. We want stuff that is compliant to the letter of the law, but reversible when or if we leave the state. Hence the huge popularity of bullet buttons. Definitely a bad idea to lower your bar to the worst gun laws in the country.

    • CrankyFool

      And it’s worth noting that despite doing their best, this rifle is STILL not CA-compliant, unless you use a bullet-button for the magazines. That’s definitely a pistol grip there.

      • Christian Hedegaard-Schou

        That’s not a pistol grip as defined by CA law for the purposes of the assault weapons legislation. It is, however, a thumbhole stock which is ALSO a prohibited feature.

        • Mark N.

          As I understand it, this rifle would not be legal even if it had a BB. The Beretta is noncompliant as well (according to my LGS).

          • Christian Hedegaard-Schou

            And how is that? As long as it is 30″ OAL with the bullet button, it would be legal in CA.

  • Yojimbo556

    I love my pistol caliber carbines but ill just sit here and patiently wait for the Sig MPX

  • Blake

    Thanks for the review. This reinforces my desire for a Beretta or Kel-Tec &ltgrin&gt

  • AD

    I think I read in a magazine that there was some legal reason why Taurus couldn’t export to America with magazines that hold more than 10 rounds, and aren’t even allowed to have anything to do with anyone else making higher capacity magazines for the gun, so they pretty much just had to ship it and hope someone else started selling better mags.

    • Joe

      The 10 round mag is due to the points system in USC 18 922r. Blame BATF, not Taurus.

      This is something most people who brought an imported gun knows about, so it’s disappointing to see the author miss this.

      • Ian McCollum

        I understand that – but 922 does not prevent Taurus from building the gun around an existing high-cap magazine (and importing them with 10 round versions) or making a proprietary magazine but manufacturing high-cap versions of it here inside the US.

        • BryanS

          It does when the ATF makes up its own “interpretations” of law and has the power to send SWAT to your home and shoot your dog.

  • elgin robinson

    Very Nice review……the only question i have is why didn’t they bring it out in another calibre, maybe 10mm or 45acp.

    • Ian McCollum

      If it sells reasonably well, I’m sure a .40 version will follow, and maybe a .45 as well. I doubt 10mm has the market following for a company like Taurus to see it as a viable option.

  • allannon

    I kinda like the idea of PCCs for plinking and as a truck/ATV “rifle”.

    However, given the subpar sights, and especially being half again the weight of the already-weighty Cx4, I’m not anticipating this selling well.

    For the weight, I think I’d prefer a PCC upper for my AR.

    I like the review, though.

    • http://www.thefirearmblog.com/ Phil W “Senior Writer TFB”

      Still I think Taurus has the view that 99% of people will slap an optic of some sort on it right off the bat.

  • dan citizen

    pistol caliber carbines are a niche that won’t go away. Look how many police departments use semi auto mp5s and pistol caliber ARs,

    I’m not much of a fan of these guns, but there are a lot more uses than the reviewer came up with. I have seen them used for pest control, euthanizing livestock, home defense, small game hunting.

    For whatever reason people just seem to want these.

    • Paul White

      They’re fun to shoot. I want a hi-point just for kicks personally.

      • dan citizen

        Shot a friend’s hi-point, I was impressed.

      • Mark N.

        Here’s a funny thing–Hi-Points are legal in California.

        • Christian Hedegaard-Schou

          By default, they aren’t. However, Hi-Point worked with one of their larger distributors here in CA to ship the rifle with a bullet button system to make it legal. Almost ANY gun can be made legal in CA. Go into any good gun shop in CA and you’ll see KRISS’s, SCAR’s, ACR’s and AR’s of every single possible type and description on the wall.

    • Alex

      Shoot one. After you do you’ll pony out 250$ for one too. They are accurate, entertaining and run common pistol calibers. I always introduce new shooters to my 9mm 995 and they love that thing.

  • DZ

    Make one 5.56 and take ar mags.

    • Ian McCollum

      That would be…an AR. And Taurus is working on bringing one to market, I believe.

  • BryanS

    Had me going until I saw proprietary mags. The Sub2000 worked with 3 different mag systems. Taurus, you have no excuse.

    • John

      922(r) is a very valid excuse. They are forced to make proprietary 10rd mags because if the gun can readily accept “standard hi-cap magazines” it’s import banned. It’s the same reason why all AKs imported into America are (initially) single-stack or use weird, proprietary magazines.

      • DW

        But Taurus has a facility in the USA… So this shouldn’t have been an issue.

        • Mark N.

          It is only NOT an issue if the gun is manufactured here. This gun is manufactured in Brazil, and is therefore subject to the ten round limit as a matter of Federal (NOT California) law.

          • Cymond

            However, it should be a relative non-issue to import them as 922(r) compliant rifles and then modify them with a few parts made in their US plant. It wouldn’t need to be major, it could be as simple as replacing a few trigger components.

            Snub-nosed revolvers are not permitted to be imported, so Taurus imports their revolvers with longer barrels and then cuts the barrels shorter after they enter the US.
            http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/12/11/taurus-mod-94-factory-error/

          • BryanS

            Exactly… Hell, import them as single shot, and tehn cut the mag well once here in the US, package,and ship.

            But, then we could complain how the ATF outdated gun control regulations have added another 4300 to the price what looks like a dressed up highpoint carbine.

  • That Guy

    I’d rather have an UZI carbine, and just man up on the extra pound of weight. Cheap 30 rnd mags, shorter, collapsible stock, ’bout the same MSRP, and it’s actually cool looking.

    Taurus missed the boat on this one. Badly.

  • Bull Rider

    Considering Taurus makes a Beretta 92 clone, why not make a PCC that uses those mags. S&W 59 series mags would work as well. Those mags also work in the XD series pistol with slight modification. Lots of versatility there.

    • Ian McCollum

      Yep, that’s what I asked them Still haven’t heard back, though.

    • http://www.thefirearmblog.com/ Phil W “Senior Writer TFB”

      Because it would violate that silly 10 round restriction

  • Juice

    And on this week’s CIonfusing Thumbnail: Ian McCollum shoots a gun-shaped branch?

    More at 10!

    Anyways, lovely review Ian!

    • noob

      yeah, it’s next gen 3d RealTree!

  • Dracon1201

    Alright, I know that everyone here knows that 922 regs are he reason for the thumbhole stock and the non threaded muzzle, but I don’t think you guys know the story of the mags. The BATFE has explicitly told Taurus that it is not allowed to manufacture magazines above 10 rounds for this, nor is it allowed to be involved with a another company to do so. It’s a very shady act that has nothing to do with taurus.

    A .40S&W version and a .45ACP version are coming. They’ve been announced and are going to be coming to market soon. The .40 is even being sold right now.

    The rifle has a pushpin system for the stock and the mags will be coming from third party manufacturers eventually. We just need to have patience. Taurus made this extremely expandable. Which, in my opinion, is the best thing they could have done given the circumstances.

    I have modified a couple of AR-15 32rd 9mm mags to fit my Taurus. I may be doing a walkthrough on Taurusarmed.net as soon as I finish testing them tomorrow.

    • Ian McCollum

      Sounds pretty shady, and not exactly legal. Care to give us some details (ah, about Taurus, I mean – not your modified mags, which might be a good option for people)?

      • Dracon1201

        Since they are imported from Brazil, they fall under “assault rifle restrictions”, and therefore Taurus USA is prohibited from making the mags. I have also read the ‘not being allowed to be involved with magazine manufacturers’ thing on multiple sites. I wish I had paperwork to substantiate that, however, it may not have ever been written to begin with.

        • Vhyrus

          I read this in a magazine article recently as well (Can’t remember which one though).

      • Steve (TFB Editor)

        If enough parts are replaced, it can be made 922-legal.

        • Dracon1201

          That’s the idea. Mag counts as 3. If they’d make a grip and stock that would be another 2. Maybe a spring system, and rod, and a handguard. Those wouldn’t be hard. Then a better trigger, even though the one they have isn’t too bad. That would probably get you to 922 compliance.

          • http://www.thefirearmblog.com/ Phil W “Senior Writer TFB”

            For every new gun like this Taurus there are ten companies out there just waiting to make accessories and mods.

          • lalahsghost

            I don’t want to sound like a silly troll, but why aren’t more companies wanting to make accessories and mods for the Hi-Point carbine series?

            ATI made a stock a while ago, and there is that one fabrication company that makes nearly all the Hi-Point accessories….. but anyone else out there?

          • Alex

            Because most of the after-market accessories for the Hi-Point are garbage. The Carbine and mags from Hi-point are outstanding. If those things had higher capacity magazines, everyone would have one lying around.

        • Ian McCollum

          By my count, it only has 13 of the listed parts (frame, barrel, trunnion, bolt, trigger housing, trigger, hammer, disconnector, stock/grip, forearm, 3 mag parts). I guess there might be an argument that the mainspring guide is an op rod, but I don’t think it is. So by that count, all you need is an American-made magazine and you’ve met 922(r) compliance.

    • sianmink

      3rd party manufacturers won’t be interested in making magazines for this thing if (when) Taurus ends up not selling any.

  • Maxpwr

    And it’s illegal to insert a greater than 10 round magazine in the rifle without using American parts under 922 no mater if Taurus has anything to do with it or not. Same thing for Saiga 10+ round mags, etc. It’s a collector’s item, mainly. Go with a Beretta Storm CX4. Those are legal to use 10+ round magazines because they have enough parts made at their US factory and not all imported.

    • sianmink

      Even a Kel-tec sub2000 is a better choice.

    • Cymond

      I wonder how many American-made parts it would take to make it 922(r) compliant. Heck, an American-made magazine would count as 3 parts. It seems very possible, especially since Taurus has a factory in the US and they would only need to manufacture a few parts.

  • Jpanzer

    9mm carbine… the equivalent of non alcoholic beer….

    • Steve (TFB Editor)

      Harsh, so harsh. There is no reason non alcoholic beer should exists, in fact I don’t consider non alcoholic beer to be beer. Its a heresy.

      9mm carbine are great fun. Shoot for hunting in some circumstances. Allows a common round to be shared between carbine and pistol.

  • Ian Thorne

    The small mags and non folding stock were not a choice, it is an ATF regulation. Those would not be allowed on an imported rifle. Don’t fault Taurus for that.

    • Cymond

      We absolutely can & should fault Taurus for not bothering to install a few US-made parts after importation to make the rifle 922(r) compliant and therefore allowing the use of “nonsporting” accessories. Instead, it will be up to the aftermarket cottage industry to do it at three times the cost.

      • Ian Thorne

        Sure you could fault them for that, if you have absolutely no idea how businesses actually work. They aren’t making an AR so they can’t just buy the parts, and setting up a firearms factory in the US is usually about a 5 year process. Factories don’t grow on trees man, if you think they didn’t want to do that, you would be crazy.

        • Cymond

          They already *have* a US factory, and they would only need to manufacture about 3 trigger components to make the carbine 922(r) compliant.

          With that step out of the way, they could then install imported tactical stocks, thread the barrel, let it use full-cap mags, etc. Maybe it’s just me, but I think that it would be better to manufacture a trigger, sear, & disconnector in the US than to sell a gun that nobody really wants.

          • Ian Thorne

            That is incorrect. taurus has an assembly facility in the US, but does zero manufacturing here.

            Where is that number of three parts coming from? I can’t find a parts list for the rifle anywhere on the internet. But if it is in line with most other rifles it will likely in more like 7 US made parts.

          • Ian McCollum

            Being a blowback action, it has fewer of the regulated parts than most locked-breech rifles. My count was 13 922 parts total in it, meaning that a US-made magazine alone would make it compliant.

  • Cknarf

    I got to shoot one of these once. They’re ugly, for sure, but I still enjoyed myself. I wouldn’t go out of my way to get one, especially at that price, but guns are fun, no matter what they are.

  • George H Hill

    ” This isn’t such a big deal for the recreational shooter, but it will drive most of the tactical market away.”
    Wrong. It drives away most of the Recreational Shooters as well. Used to be a Taurus Dealer and this magazine issue killed every potential order I had for it. And I don’t know any serious tactical shooter that would give it any consideration. No LEO I know wants it.
    Taurus shot this carbine in the foot.

    • harlequin9846

      Agreed. As a LEO I can say that no one in their right mind in the “tactical market” would pick Taurus anything. There are so many better options.

  • derfelcadarn

    It makes far more sense to buy a pistol in a rifle caliber than the other way around, why bother having the rifle in the first place ? The idea behind rifle(carbines) is reach, accuracy and power, forfeiting two out of three is a non starter. Jeff Cooper is frowning.

    • DW

      It’s a fact that AR/AK pistols are easier to shoot than pistol-caliber carbines, right? /sarc

      How the hell can you shoot better with more recoil and no stock…

      • Mark N.

        I have that same question. the only answer I’ve gotten is: “But they’re so much fun!” Which merely confirms to me the utter uselessness of such “pistols.”

      • derfelcadarn

        Why own a rifle that hits like a BB gun ? Better one quality shot than twenty poorly aimed ones. If it is recoil you are concerned with you are in the wrong game. I am suggesting that you can be far more deadly with a Contender in 30-30 shot well than a 9mm rifle shot lots of times poorly

        • OldSkool

          Go Barrett or go home.

        • LaserBlast!

          So much contradiction in a single post… cannot compute…

        • David Sharpe

          How about I take a 9mm rifle, then shoot you, then you can tell me that “it hits like a BB gun”

        • LuckyCharms

          “The 9mm doesn’t work.” – Said no one ever killed by one.

  • Patrick Mingle

    I would like to see a 9mm AR-7, other than that I’m fine

    • DiverEngrSL17K

      That’s a really interesting idea — an upgrade on the survival rifle concept. The overall bulk and weight would have to be increased somewhat, though, as would the length and width of the magazine. Getting it all to fit in the buttstock when dismantled would also pose some design challenges.

  • Jason

    I always thought I wanted a 9mm carbine, but then 300 Blackout was born and I lost all interest in one.

  • Ryan D.

    I don’t trust any firearm that hasn’t been subjected to Ian’s goopy nasty mud test. :-)

  • Ryan D.

    Did Taurus learn nothing from the USC?

  • Nathaniel

    “[W]hy do people buy 9mm carbines?”

    If my conversations with some of the industrialists at SHOT are any indication, they don’t, really.

    Great article, with one reservation: Woe be to the gun that cannot work with mud confined to the outside of the receiver (looking at you, Garand, M14). I am happy the Taurus passed the mud test, but I think it would have been more informative if you’d gotten some Arizona goop into the receiver itself.

  • Darrell

    Three words: Just Right carbine. Mine runs like a top.

  • dandantheman

    Thumb hole stocks are an ILLEGAL feature in California dude.10 round mag is due to import laws.writer is a dolt.

  • DiverEngrSL17K

    A Hi-Point 9mm carbine is probably a better weapon at a fraction of the price, and is American-designed and manufactured to boot. It also has decent iron sights. A lot of people, especially gun snobs, used to unfairly and unjustifiably criticize the Hi-Point, often without ever having personally laid eyes on an actual sample, let alone handled or used one for extended periods in the field.

    Ironically, it was the “newbie” gun owner market that gave the Hi-Point its start because the low price point was appealing ; as time went by, more experienced gun owners began to discover its many virtues ( compactness, user-friendly ergonomics, accuracy, durability, excellent reliability, transferable no-questions-asked lifetime warranty, etc. ) and now many of the same people who turned up their noses at it are extolling its virtues. Even its initially odd appearance has been ameliorated to some extent in the second-generation model, and has gained widespread acceptance.

    Although I own several high-end battle and assault rifles and carbines, I still enjoy my Hi-Point 995TS tremendously. It is down-to-earth practical, sturdy, incredibly cost-effective, more fun than a barrel of monkeys, and has few — if any — vices.

  • DatDude

    Zzz… My moolah will be staying put in my wallet, but I’m sure the Taurus fans will still pony up the cash for one.

  • Jack

    WOW this review so terrible. The part about the magazine capacity has to do with 922R compliance. They could not make it to accept higher capacity magazines from handguns they currently sell, due import laws.

    However the price of it is a joke. Why spend as much for it when you can get Berretas version for a better value.

  • Daniel

    Is it possible that Taurus introduced this carbine thinking that a ban on “assault weapons” and standard-capacity mags was imminent (due to Obama’s second term, Newtown, Aurora or some other event that had yet to occur), and figured that they would then have the pistol caliber carbine market cornered after the Cx4, Kel tec, Highpoint, AR conversions, etc. were all banned?

    • Cymond

      I see absolutely no reason the CX-4 would be banned but the CT9 would survive. The only “scary” feature on the CX-4 is the thumbhole stock, which the CT9 also uses. If they wanted something for a post-ban market, they should have emulated the Marlin Camp Carbine or Ruger Police Carbine.

      Besides, it takes a LONG time to engineer and manufacture a new firearm. They’ve probably been working on this carbine for years.

  • Kevin

    I can’t see why anybody would buy this over a Beretta CX4. I think I’d even buy a Hi-Point before the Taurus. Big swing and a miss!

  • Matt

    Despite all the complaints about the alleged California compliant features, this actually isn’t compliant because thumbhole stocks violate the AWB here.

  • Klipsch

    Since the 300 Blackout, I just can’t see the point in a 9mm carbine as heavy, expensive and proprietary as this.

  • CJS3

    Taurus can alleviate all of the stated deficiencies by manufacturing “aftermarket” parts here, and installing them, themselves, before issuing the rifles to the distributors. Trying to make it look more like the subgun that it’s based on, except for the longer barrel, would make this a great seller.

    http://www.taurusarmas.com.br/submetralhadora-smt-9-taurus-9-mm-luger-9-x-19-mm-30tiros-venda-orgaos-publicos-prod-90.html

  • Player_L

    Taurus is, and will be for the foreseeable future, the main firearms provider for all branches of Brazilian Armed Forces and Police.
    The original design for this carbine, as you might imagine, is a standard submachine gun for military use. Full Auto, 30 round Magazines, folding and fixed stock, the works.
    Such a gun does, in fact, address most of the objections voiced on the article. It would, however, be out of civilian reach anywhere.
    It´s closest relative, a semi auto 9mm carbine with interchangeable magazines, is illegal almost everywhere in America, with the exception of the US, Canada, and possibly Mexico.
    Thus, Taurus took the reasonable decision of making ONE model that would be legal even by the most restrictive standards.
    Besides, some useful features such as giving the gun compatibility with other magazines would require a complete rework of the lower assembly injection mould.

    • Mazryonh

      It still seems strange to me as to why they would go through all that trouble in the first place. As the review mentions, there are quite a few “almost but not quite” features on this firearm. The firearms market is undoubtedly a fiercely competitive one, and even more so now given that consumers have more reasons than ever to save their money; if your stuff isn’t at least as good as the majority of the competition, it’s that much more likely you’ll be passed over in favour of something else.

      • DiverEngrSL17K

        Good points. Somehow, I smell “lawyers” and legalistic, opportunistic clap-trap at work here — with due apologies to those lawyers who are actually truly honest and sincere in their calling.

        • Mazryonh

          Sadly, given how small the market is for PCCs, I doubt there’s enough of a consumer base to change things around.

  • J. Begood

    Don’t forget the B&T Advanced Police Carbine 9 (APC9), available in .45 ACP too.

  • Joey Lombardo

    Colt 9mm AR mags will work in it with a little modification. Ta-dah i fixed the worst part of the rifle for you.

  • midwestguntech.blogspot.com

    Kinda makes me think hi-point..lol.. I expect more from taurus, perhaps I Shouldn’t of..lol