New PDW from LWRC: IC PSD

lwrc_ic_psd_1-tfb1

Chambered in 6.8mm SPC, this Personal Defense Weapon from LWRC packs a lot of firepower into a small package.

It features a H&K-style skeleton stock which extends past a short buffer tube. This is not the most comfortable stock configuration, but it saves space. Rails or other accessories can be screwed onto the modular handguard if desired. Underneath the rail in the above photo they have attached a hand stop to prevent a user from accidentally extending their hand past the handguard and near the muzzlebrake.

[ Many thanks to Lionel the tip. ]




Steve Johnson

Founder and Dictator-In-Chief of TFB. A passionate gun owner, a shooting enthusiast and totally tacti-uncool. Favorite first date location: any gun range. Steve can be contacted here.


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  • surplus-addict

    The best PDW will always be an AK-47 SBR with a side folding stock and micro red dot sight. *flame suit activated*

    • TCBA_Joe

      Because it’s not possible to get better ergonomics and reliability with more modern materials and cartridges? Please.

      AKs are great, but some people have this romantic attachment to old soviet stuff and don’t want to see there are better possibilities now.

      The ergonomics alone are enough to disqualify the AK series from any sort of modern PSD type role.

      • Esh325

        The ergonomics aren’t that bad, and it would be fairly easy to get them up to get them on par with newer rifles.

    • Lolinski

      I personally like AK ergonomics especially the selector on FA examples(Sure it could use a more comfortable grip and a dust cover mounted rear sight, but it doesnt matter with a red dot)

      • TCBA_Joe

        I understand what you’re saying, however in the PSD role it has some downfalls. Fixed reciprocating charging handle is unsuitable to a setting where concealment and vehicles are prevalent.

        Also, the safety does not have the advantages that the AR has. Being able to go from “safe” to fire” quickly is vital. ARs are run on “safe until one is coming up from the ready, even during transitions. AKs are not typically shot this way due to the amount of bodily transition that is needed to manipulate the safety. This does not obviously take into consideration aftermarket or Galil style selectors, but the issue still stands.

        There’s also the issue of the AK going from safe-full-semi vs the AR FOW’s safe-semi-full when dealing with personal security details and close proximity on non-combatants and friendly civilians.

        Not saying I don’t understand the love of the Krink for PSD/PDW settings, but merely that there is definite room for modernization, especially when it comes to the adoption of eastern-bloc weaponry.

      • Esh325

        When you move the selector lever down with full force (such as in a panic), it falls to the semi automatic position. They did this so soldiers had to deliberately go to fully automatic. They make many military varitions of the AK with a thumb selector. As far as a reciprocating charging handle goes in the AK design, I’ve never heard of it ever being an issue.

    • Lolinski

      I personally like AK ergonomics especially the selector on FA examples(Sure it could use a more comfortable grip and a dust cover mounted rear sight, but it doesnt matter with a red dot).

    • Brian in Seattle

      I’d take the KAC PDW over a Krinkov any day.

    • Michael

      ????? then you know nothing of the 6.8 round. The 7.62×39 doesn’t come close to this round

  • Gambitt

    I didn’t realize that Magpul made a 6.8 spc magazine…I had thought they said it was not possible with this cartridge.

    • Marc

      It’s not possible with AR-15 magwells. The Six8 has an enlarged magazine well and the specs will be free to copy once the rifle hits the market in early 2013, according to LWRCi.

  • Reverend Clint

    looks pretty slick

  • H. L.

    It’s like an AR for Hobbits! Seriously though, It looks pretty sweet and I really like the buttstock design over the buffer tube, though it may not be ergonomic. It should have the right impact for the market for which it’s intended.

    • Sid

      Small power! Small power! Small power!

      I assume you are what the small people call a “bigger”. I’ll just point out that of the 9 members of the Fellowship of the Ring, 5 small (4 Hobbits and 1 Dwarf). That is 55% of the team. And your butt would be speaking an ancient form of Elvish that will not be spoken here if it were not for the Hobbit contigent in the ME WWII.

      So, the next time you see a small person, you should walk up and shake their hand. Thank them that you do not have to pledge allegiance to Sauron.

      Jerk. ;)

  • Big Daddy

    LWRC, Magpul and ATK have formed a group to make something called a Six8. I don’t know if this is it. It’s a new rifle that is a bit bigger than an AR and designed for the 6.8 round with a new mag and ammo. A few small countries are going to use it for their militaries and they are pushing this combo now.

    It looks like a winner and they re investing a lot of cash into it.

    I have a feeling they got the go ahead from the DOD to compete for a new weapon in a few years, like closer to 2018 or so to start rearming. Maybe start with small units first. There has to be a reason to go and invest that kind of money.

    http://www.lwrci.com/articles/SGNLWRCsix8.pdf

    • Esh325

      I think by 2018 they will have better things. I don’t see any indication the 6.8 SPC or this rifle will take off world wide.

      • Dale

        I tend to agree. 6.8 is a great round, but I’m frankly surprised that they didn’t chamber it in 300AAC. Maybe there’s a big push to retrofit the AR platform for 6.8 across the board eventually for the US military for caliber considerations (one 6.8 round being adopted instead of having 300AAC and whatever caliber they choose) but otherwise I don’t think a PDW type platform in 6.8 would be a smart interim choice when you have to swap mags, bolts and barrels to get only marginally better performance than the 300AAC at CQB ranges when you just swap out a barrel and you’re good to go with the 300. It’s interesting to see the 6.8 come back into the dialogue though as a service caliber…

      • bbmg

        Probably rail guns with a selector switch that will allow the same weapon to be used as a CQB entry gun and 3000 yard sniper :D

    • TCBA_Joe

      I’m beginning to believe the 6.8 is the .357 Sig of the rifle world.

      5.56 and .308 are the 9mm and .45. 300BLK is looking to become the .40 S&W with lots of options for both weapons and loadings. I could see it becoming a staple of HD and LE just like .40 has been.

      6.8 is becoming the .357 Sig. Good ballistics, but less selection and offerings.

      Obviously the comparison breaks down when you look at a direct rifle vs pistol comparison, but I believe it holds when you look at it from a marketing and popularity standpoint. (It does stand when looking at a frame size standpoint, interestingly enough)

      • Lance

        I agree 90% of what you say 6.8mm and 6.5mm had good ballistics and should have been looked at by the DoD more than they where. For Police and regular military forces I see 5.56mm and 7.62 NATO being around alot longer.

        I dont see .300 BLK replacing any weapon but added for some suppressed special M-4 weapons in SOCOM, and popular here for suppressed rifle shooters.

        Id feel 5.56mm is the 9mm of rifles 7.62X51 NATO the .45 AUTO of rifles. Both 6.5mm and 6.8mm the .357 SIG of rifles. And .300 BLK more of the 10mm Auto of rifles not 40 S&W.

  • W

    i bet shooting it is as enjoyable as driving a nail into cherrywood. that 6.8 cartridge must have concussion!

    still neat though! these SBR ARs/PDWs never cease to amaze me.

    • Duray

      6.8 should have less blast out of a short barrel (or any other length) than 5.56, given the substantially higher bore volume. That’s why it’s so wonderful in short barrels- it’s more efficient.

      • W

        Im not going to say youre wrong, but im just going by a lighthearted conclusion based on gained experience from a 12″ Noveske 6.8.

        It is definitely a efficient round.

    • Esh325

      I don’t doubt it. The blast and noise will be even compacted indoors with no hearing protection. When you try to adopt a rifle and caliber made to function in longer barrel configurations, you bring in a whole set of problems some times when you try to shorten it. That’s why I think the KAC PDW is a great idea. It’s 6x35mm cartridge is specifically made have little blast and noise out of very short barrels compared to most intermediate cartridges.

  • Nathaniel

    That’s fairly neat, actually.

  • Tyler Marcoz

    Do they sell the stock/buffer separately? I’ve wanted something like that for a novelty AR-15 build I’ve been working on for awhile.

  • Burst

    An overclocked cartridge and a mini DI system. Wonderful.

    I have no doubt that in certain instances, and with tons of training, this could be a great weapon. It fails PDW duty hard, though.

    • CptFreedom

      Dude, i’m pretty sure this gun has a gas piston system.

      • Burst

        I guess as an LWRC, that’d make sense.

        The presence of the buffer tube threw me.

    • W

      while being incorrect about the DI system (which its GP), that is a very good point.

      the short stroke piston system in a AR from a SBR using a cartridge like the 6.8 could bring about many unintended consequences of increased wear. I could be wrong, just speculating.

    • TCBA_Joe

      The only LWRC that has ever been DI was their 300BLK PSD/UCIW, and they’ve only produced a few of those.

      There was talk of the possibility of offering a standard DI 5.56 but as I understand it, that’s been shelved so not as to dilute the brand.

  • Lance

    Looks cute Id get a better butstock but cute altogether.

  • Supersonic

    Is that a 20-round PMAG? I thought they weren’t 6.8 compliant!!

  • D

    Thing looks *mean*

  • bbmg

    Strange choice of caliber, given the fact you don’t really hear about the SPC round these days and it’s all about the blackout. For short barrels, the latter is especially suited.

    • Marc

      The 6.8 was ordered by some foreign military. The .300 SSKAAC whisperout is just a marketing hype.

      • bbmg

        http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/05/13/lwrc-rifles-to-be-license-produced-in-jordan/

        Hardly making major inroads into the small arms market though is it.

        In the same way that the SP-5 and SP-6 heavy subsonic 9mm cartridges have been gaining popularity with Russian forces for everything from PDWs to sniper rifles, I believe the niche also exists in the West. The 300 Blackout seems well poised to fill it, even though interestingly the Russians went up in calibre from subsonic 7.62×39, the heavier 300 BLK loadings are actually similar in weight and with a better ballistic coefficient.

      • Esh325

        The only reason the .300 BLK would have a better BC is because they load them with higher quality bullets.

      • bbmg

        @ Esh325

        Quality has nothing to do with this parameter, it’s more about weight and cross sectional area. The 300 blackout has around 75% of the frontal area of the Russian rounds, yet almost 90% of the weight, so the sectional density and therefore ballistic coefficient goes up. Also, being proportinally longer, the 300 bullet also has a lower drag coefficient, which increases the ballistic coefficient

      • Esh325

        Are .300 BLK’s bullets standard .308 diameter bullets?

      • bbmg

        Yes, which means that you can fire a heavy bullet like the 220 grain sierra below the speed of sound and still get decent performance. At 300 yards it’s a close match in terms of energy with a 5.56 bullet from a short barrel.

        This is worth going through, marketing hype some say but it’s backed up by numbers: http://300aacblackout.com/resources/300-BLK.pdf

      • Esh325

        Any bullet the .300 BLK can use, the 7.62×39 can use. .308 bullets can be loaded in 7.62×39 cases.

      • bbmg

        Ah, but you can’t use 7.62×39 in a rifle chambered for 5.56×45 by simply changing the barrel…

      • Ingot

        Bullets for 7.62×39 and .300BLK are not interchangeable: 7.62×39 bullets are actually .312″ diameter, but .300BLK (and 7.62×51) are .308 diameter. Four one-thousandths of an inch may not seem like much, but it will be the difference between a “bang!” and a “ka-boom!” if you try it.

  • Sid

    Caveat – I have a 6.8mm AR that I use for fun and deer-harvesting. Is a good round.

    Second Caveat – I have been until recently a MP officer and worked PSD on missions in Iraq.

    Now for a comment – HELL YES.

    PDWs are not battle rifles. When a PDW is used, it is not force on force bounding in the forest. It is in the hallway of a building or the threshold of a vehicle. A short, powerful weapon is needed. 9mm is not making it due to the increasing use of body armor.

    Secret Service, embassy details, corporate security…. yes. I like shooting…. maybe not. Though I like the look of this, it will require some a permit as a SBR. But it might be fun to have.

    On polymer 6.8 mags. The comments upthread are correct. The proposed 6.8mm Magpul magazines will have larger dimensions than standard AR magwells.

  • gunslinger

    looks like it’d be a nice little gun.

  • Spade

    For the love of all things holy will somebody, please, anybody start selling one of these PDW stocks? That’s like, four damn stocks (this, the HK, the sig, and the Honey Badger)and I don’t see anybody actually selling the damn thing.

    • TCBA_Joe

      Google Spex PDW Stock

  • Esh325

    The buttstock may not look that comfortable but they wanted a compact and light weight AR15 package. There’s no free lunch in firearms designs, compromises have to be made some times.

    • noob

      I wonder if you could put a stiff polymer cheekplate that extends from the buttpad up the left side of the stock. It could be relieved away from the wire stock arms so it doesnt interfere with the collapsing function and cut away to allow ejection while folded.

  • Jay

    A new, bigger magwell is the only thing 6.8 is missing to be all it could be have been. Make a slightly longer magwell, so you can load higher BC bullets and you have a round that could do most jobs needed to be done by small arms. It’s about time someone designed a better magwell to unleash this cartridge.

    • Jay

      I just read that pdf. God, what a wasted oportunity. They make a new dedicated 6.8 magwell and magazine and they optimize it for a 90 grain bullet. :(

  • Esh325

    There really hasn’t been any serious dialog among the US military or other militaries around the world to replace the 5.56×45 with another conventional cartridge design. The 6.8 SPC was only used in small numbers by US SF, and I believe it’s no longer used, or not used in great numbers.

    The US,Russia,Germany,Britain and China all came to the conclusion that the soldier would be best equipped with an assault rifle with a caliber of .22 or even lower. All those countries tested 6mm-7mm that were similar to the 6.8 SPC, that US gun market tries to sell today as some new snake oil. That isn’t to say the current of calibers don’t have their issues. The problems experienced with the 5.56×45 stem mostly from the particular loading rather than an inherent weakness in the cartridge or caliber. The Russians in particular have been very satisfied with their 5.45×39,with the only deficiencies being in barrier penetration and suppressed applications.

    • bbmg

      http://www.vuurwapenblog.com/arvidsson.pdf

      a solution in search of a problem?

      • W

        damn good pdf that brings up a lot of good points.

      • bbmg

        Yup… chief amongst them is that an enemy soldier hit by a single 5.56 bullet is a lot more dead than one missed by 100 7.62 bullets.

    • W

      “The problems experienced with the 5.56×45 stem mostly from the particular loading rather than an inherent weakness in the cartridge or caliber”

      bingo!!!

      well said. It amazes me how the improperly applied M855 cartridge has managed to tarnish the caliber as a whole. People whine about range and lethality without any consideration for OTM-type ammunition, which has no problem reaching past 500 meters and killing a human target with ease.

      and lets be honest with each other here: world war II demonstrated that most infantry engagements were within 300 meters. arguing over rounds intended to be used in the infantrymans rifle that are marginally more effective up to 800-1000 meters, when they are ultimately affected by the same variables as 5.56 rounds, is a waste of time.

      6.8 and the other true intermediate calibers are still affected by increased ammunition weight, increased recoil, and other features of calibers heavier than the smaller predecessor they intend to replace. If those calibers can be objectively better than existing ones, then by all means, send them to the front.

      • Esh325

        The newer M885A1 and MK318 is suppose to improve very much on the M885, but I haven’t heard much about its performance in the field. NATO should standardized on a new loading or just replace the M885.

  • Mike Knox

    With all these short buffer tubes popping up everywhere, it won’t be long before a butt-cap buffer shows up..

  • John Doe

    Wouldn’t .300 AAC be a better choice for at least a PDW?

    • Big Daddy

      I think the point is that once you go to an actual battle rifle the 6.8mm is superior. Having the same round in both the PDW and possibly a sniper or DMR plus the assault version would eliminate the need for 9mm, 5.56mm and 7.62mm. Even a LMG/SAW, no need for any SMGs in your arsenal.

      I think that’s the logic here. The 6.8mm round has the potential to replace a few different weapons and calibers. Finally a one does everything well round. They figured that out in the 1950s, even before that. Now with the technology we have it finally makes complete sense.

      If I had an AR to be used as a PDW the .300 blackout would probably be the best choice right now. The SIX8 is meant to be a so called game changer and a jump into the very near future.

      • bbmg

        I don’t think the physics makes sense here. The same cartridge you’re going to use to replace a 7.62 round shooting at 900 yards is obviously going to be far too bulky and powerful to be used in a PDW. It is highly unlikely that with current powder burning technology, a “do everything” round could be developed. Your snipers want to be able to reach out and touch the enemy at safe ranges, give them a rifle in 338 Lapua. Similarly, your second line troops want a small compact lightweight weapon that can fire a lot of rounds fast, give them a P90. It doesn’t make sense to burden them with a compromise.

        Also, “game changer” sounds a bit much to describe what is actually a slight tweak in parameters. It’s not like for example some sort of amazing case that weights 0.01 grams and is just 5mm long which gets the same performance as 762 NATO been developed. I don’t see anything in the SPC cartridge that wouldn’t be immediately familiar to a cartridge manufacturer in the 1950s, how has the “technology we have” changed anything?

    • Big Daddy

      Obviously you misunderstood what I was saying. I noticed if I do not word everything just right I am misunderstood here.

      I say the same thing and get all thumbs up and say it another way and get a lot of thumbs down. So it has to be semantics on this site by it’s readers. I have noticed that many of the site’s readers do not follow up on what’s new in the defense world and do not read sites like Military.com for instance.

      There is a lot of information out there, most of it is BS. You have to shift through the BS and find the truth, it’s not easy it does take some work.

  • Michael

    increased magwell for increase feeding reliability with a cartridge that will do 95% of all required ops. That sounds like a major winner to me.

    • Big Daddy

      Read about the LWRCI Six8.

  • Big Daddy

    People three large companies that are at the top of small arms development right now have invested a lot of money. Included are some smaller ammo companies if you call federal small.

    The 6.8mm SPC has had more development and is nearing it’s final configuration. It is very close to what was found during the 1950s trials. Intermediate rounds are best in combat. The 6.5mm is great except for the fact they need longer barrels, overall a great round. The 6.8mm was designed for short barrels which is what is used now and will be in the future.

    Smart big companies do not make many mistakes. ATK is HUGE and makes a lot of ammo and weapons for many militarys. Why are they investing so much in the 6.8mm round? They are making 150 million rounds a year to start.

    Something is up. Why did the USMC say no more PMAGS? Things are changing. The new SAW with the new rounds have worked very well. The LSAT seems to be a possible reality coming to a squad near you. There is a date I am looking at for a complete change over to a lot of the weapons in the military, around 2018 looks about right. The XM806 was dumped, why? Maybe General Dynamics scored with their .338 medium/heavy MG.

    Light infantry as we know it will look very different by 2020.

    • bbmg

      8 years ago, facebook didn’t exist. Heaven knows what will exist 8 years from now.

      http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2012armaments/Wednesday14090Kent.pdf

      No soldiers on the battlefield is not a far fetched idea.

    • Jay

      This doesn’t make sense. Why on earth would this big companies make a new magwell and mags for the 6.8, and then optimize it for a silly 90gr bullet. Any current cartridge with decent bullets works just fine within the range this 90 grain bullet is intended to work. What the 6.8 SPC badly needs is a mag and a magwell optimized for 125-130 grain bullet to get the performance at longer range, that a cartridge of this size should have.
      Why make another pdw out of a cartridge that should do so much more?

    • Jay

      This doesn’t make sense. Why on earth would this big companies make a new magwell and mags for the 6.8, and then optimize it for a silly 90gr bullet. Any current cartridge with decent bullets works just fine within the range this 90 grain bullet is intended to work. What the 6.8 SPC badly needs is a mag and a magwell optimized for 125-130 grain bullet to get the performance at longer range, that a cartridge of this size should have.

  • Dale Fundak

    Let’s see, everyone likes the blackout and other are using 77gr bullets out of a 20″ barrel in .556, but today on the range using 90gr bullets in a SP2 6.8 in a 16″ stag Iwas getting 2845FPS and not pushing the load to the limit. Figure out the FTLBS and you will see why I am now using the 6.8SPC. 5 shots using a tactical scope 1.25″.

  • Chase

    Eventually the Magpul PDR will come out, and make all these people making short-barreled AR-15s feel like morons.

    • Supersonic

      The PDR is dead and frankly doesn’t need to come back.

      • bbmg

        Yes it does, for people who like the P90 but need a round with a bit more cojones! The PDR might be apparently dead but there are other potential candidates.

        The Kel Tec RFB for example was apparently derived from a 5.56mm bullpup prototype, perhaps it could go back to its roots? Alternatively, the Bushmaster Armpistol fitted with a proper stock and P90 style sights would also make an interesting PDW in 5.56×45/300 blackout: http://www.biggerhammer.net/armpistol/

      • Anonymoose

        Too bad the Armpistol will never come back due to the Freedumb Group…

    • W

      The PDR has enormous potential, unless the micro tavor gains traction in the US (really doubtful).

      Like I said before, a PDR in 300 black out, suppressed.

      • José Pulido

        The micro tavor actually has a lot of prospective buyers in the USA looking for carbine ballistics in a PDW package.

        There is nothing like the 13″ Tavor in the USA, and if it were to be produced here, it would dominate the entire market for people looking for ultrashort factory rifles, especially since few companies sell factory AR-15s with 7.5″ barrels.

  • FormerSFMedic

    In 2012, what is the point?

    • Ingot

      Because race gun ;-D

      Or because they can.

  • Anonymoose

    How many 6.8s can you actually fit in a 20-round Pmag? Like 16 or 17?

    • Ingot

      That’s not a standard 5.56 20-round PMAG, it’s a 6.8 SPC-specific PMAG custom made by Magpul for this PDW and the LWRC Six8 rifle. Also, you probably won’t ever see this mag for sale to the public because it won’t fit in a standard AR-15 lower. The reason it won’t fit is because the polymer the mag is made of has to be thicker than steel or aluminum of equivalent strength, and once you wrap that thicker polymer around a stack of 6.8 SPC cartridges, it’s too big for an AR-15 mag well.

      • Anonymoose

        So it won’t work in a STANAG magwell? I can TOTALLY see this being adopted by NATO, or even considered for testing by any real US armed force/government agency! /sarcasm

      • W

        anonymouse,

        there’s no STANAG for magazines so that argument is moot

    • nofrag

      Are you stupid or what ? the bushmaster pistol is and was never manufactured by the compagny of the very same name, it was just named like that much like the canon that equip the bradley vehicle.

  • Arroo

    That stock reminds me of the one from Loki Weapon Systems, that they do not sell separately. Due to the length of the buffer on the LWRC and the fact that LWRC also sell GSE pistol buffers that look similar, I suspect it might actually be made by them. I’d love to see these stocks sold separately with the special bolt that may be required.

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