Kick Down TRRR (Torsion Reaction Recoil Reduction) Stock

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A company called MDEK Systems has developed a prototype stock (patent pending) which they claim reduces felt recoil significantly more than traditional spring or hydraulic recoil reduction systems. The TRRR reduces recoil by “converting the linear in-line kick forces to dynamic torsion impulses within the stock. The torsion impulses rotate the gun download and away from the shooters’s shoulder and cheek and eliminates barrel rise. This action eliminates flinching and helps keep the target acquired making the shooting experience painless and more pleasurable.”

Prototype on Franchi SPAS-12 shotgun

Like with any new miracle technologies, the proof is in the pudding shooting. I hope to review this stock on TFB when it comes to market.

The company founder told me they plan on manufacturing them for AR-15 5.56mm and 7.62mm rifles and Remington 870 and Franchi SPAS-12 shotguns.

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Steve Johnson

Founder and Dictator-In-Chief of TFB. A passionate gun owner, a shooting enthusiast and totally tacti-uncool. Favorite first date location: any gun range. Steve can be contacted here.


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  • TCBA_Joe

    Hasn’t Blackhawk already done this with the Knoxx stock?

    • Nick Pacific

      It appears to be similar.
      On the knoxx stock the action recoiled into the stock, which kept the hand, cheek and shoulder planted against one piece. As said above, good luck keeping a cheek weld on these prototypes.

  • Anonymoose

    lolSPAS-12

  • LJK

    From the bullshit-y description it sounds very much like what’s going in inside the KRISS-V SMGs. Or it’s just a spring with a weight angled upwards.

    It also sounds like the system is violent enough to completely destroy any kind of cheek weld you might have on the gun (“–impulses rotate the gun download and away from the shooters’s shoulder and cheek–”).

    I hate to be negative when someone introduces anything new (in any field) but it’s hard not to be pessimistic whenever you can play a round of bullshit bingo from the initial advert the company gives out.

    • Nick Pacific

      It’s jargon meant to make the developer appear more knowledgeable, but from your reaction I’d say it’s alienating some people.

      • LJK

        I get an immediate negative reaction to spin like that. I’ve heard that crap enough in class with teachers. Using big fancy words more often just masks actual knowledge (or the lack of it), in my experience.

  • Steve

    Yes, but their design merely redirects a portion of the recoil while using springs to increase the length of time the recoil is applied to your shoulder. I haven’t tested it myself, but from what I can see in its design and from reviews the redirected force (from the sliding near the pistol grip) is directly angled at your face when you have a proper cheek weld. That results in some of the force that was applied to your shoulder being applied to your face instead.

    From the looks of this design it uses delaying force, just like the Knox stock, but instead the compression takes place at the end of the butt stock. If the springs are tuned right and there is a good amount of give this would considerably reduce the feel of the force, as it’s applied over a longer period of time and not hurt your face.

    Basically, this is a more complex version of a “limb saver” rubber recoil reducing pad. Whether it’s worth the cost and the extra parts that might fail on you is another story.

  • ct11b

    Commenting not on the stock itself, as I have no experience in its usage, nor get the scientific jargon used in its explanation. I’m sure it works as described, though aesthetically that model for the SPAS looks like something made in 2nd period shop class. I hope they rest of models they produce for other weapons do not look so…blockfugly. But in regards to the SPAS-12. They’re still floating around the market (personally I’ve only seen used), isn’t it costly to produce a line for the SPAS-12. It is thoughtful to cater to owners of them (and I myself still want one after my first strong impression of the weapon as a kid watching Jurassic Park). But for all intents and purposes, it’s a discontinued produced weapon.

  • Denny

    Mossberg had something of the kind in 1998/99. Does someone know how it succeeded in the market? It was basicaly recoiling pad supported by torsion spring (I believe made by Hogue). As some point in discussion this is merely to delay recoil force, not to remove it. This as many others are in “passive device” category. The FG42 was there already, long time ago.

  • gunslinger

    if it works, great. but price and look?

  • Esh325

    I agree with them that spring and hydraulic recoil dampeners are ineffective. I bought one of those fab defense recoil reducing stocks and they did little to nothing in terms of recoil reduction. Hope it really is as effective as they say it is, but I have some doubts.

    • Erwos

      I disagree. I have the tube+stock setup on my Saiga 12, and it’s awesome. I can shoot that gun all day now, and my shoulder doesn’t get sore. My suspicion is that you’re using it on a rifle where the recoil is not such a huge deal.

      • Esh325

        Regardless of what rifle I used it on, it didn’t do what it was advertised to do.

  • http://www.batmanbatmanbatman.com Woodroez

    I don’t have any real comment on the stock, but I’ve been thinking about getting a fighting pump 12-gauge for a while, and for some reason this post made me think of that Mossberg 500 model “The Road Blocker,” the one with the big, Barrett-style muzzle brake on it. Anyone try it?

    • Flounder

      I think muzzle breaks on a shotgun are stupid. XD Just my thoughts though.

      Can you use birdshot or even buckshot with a break on or is it strictly solid rounds like slugs?

      I have a mossburg 500 with 2 barrels (18″ & 28″) and two stocks (a overfolder that holds 5 rounds and a boring old factory stock). Good gun but overall I think the Rem 870′s are a little better. Assuming you get the 3″ action. But the mossy holds 5 with the 18″ barrel while my friend only got 4 in the tube.

      Just food for thought. Hope this helps you out even though it isn’t a direct response to your question.

    • W

      go with the mossberg 500…and just a standard home defense one.

      In my personal opinion, leave the muzzle brakes, pistol grips, foldable stocks, and other mad max bullshit off of it and just stick with the standard stock and 18″ barrel. A cartridge side carrier will not hurt if thats what you want, but a tactical sling and surefire flashlight are musts.

      Not to mention parts for the Mossberg are ubiquitous and inexpensive, add-ons are readily available, and the mossberg has a number of technical advantages over the 870 to include the dual extractors (versus the single one of the remington). Not that 870s are inferior, I just prefer the Mossberg. Take it for what it is.

      • Kyle

        If I remember correctly most of the guns in the mad max movies were either bolt action rifles, break action shotguns, plain jane pump actions, or revolvers. I don’t recall ever seeing muzzle breaks or pistol grips (unless you want to count the ubiquitous sawed off shotgun.) on any of those.

    • Big Daddy

      From all the reading I have done muzzle brakes on shotguns are best before the end of the barrel. It made sense when it was explained. I think the best way to get the most benefits for that is to have it ported by a company with a good reputation.

      I think for someone to use that as a home defense weapon they really must develop tactics and practice them. They are powerful weapons that are clumsy to those who are not familiar with them.

      I always wanted to see a shoot out for home defense with an average person of a 20 vs 12 gauge to see how effective they are in real situations. Done with people who do not spend a lot of time on the range.

      In the heat of a battle would it be better to have a 12 gauge with a magnum load or a controllable 20 gauge for the person who does not spend hours firing and practicing using the gun?

      Yes a tacticool pump 12 guage looks badass but as the professionals say things like using that click sound to scare off intruders does not work. Why would a weapon too powerful to use properly work?

      This unit may help in that regard.

      • D

        I suspect random variance would bury any actual advantage or difference between the two.

        When the crap hits the fan, pretty much it’s all the same if you got a twelve, a twenty, a pistol or an assault rifle, for anyone who’s not really well trained and versed.

        See how many marines report their first time in combat, they just blasted away and forgot to aim, as an example.

  • Raoul O’Shaugnessy

    Sounded interesting until they mentioned that, of all the guns out there to build gear for, they’re going after that *enormous* SPAS-12 market.

    I’d imagine the biggest market for SPAS -12 stocks is Hollywood, and since they shoot blanks who cares about recoil reduction.

    • Clodboy

      If there’s one thing I learned from Hollywood movies it’s that you never, ever use a SPAS-12 with the stock extended anyway. The folding stock is clearly just there to make the gun look more imposing. Also, that forend just looks way too nifty to ever use the gun in semi-auto mode.

    • W

      LOL

      I hate the SPAS12. Such a needlessly complicated design that has a steep learning curve to even use correctly, let alone in the capabilities it was intended for. For anybody new or inexperienced firing one, its like solving euclidian geometry.

      • Anonymoose

        They should make this stock for Benelli SuperNova, M4 Super 90/M1014/M4 Tactical, and Super Vinci and the Remington 887, 1187(P), and R-12, and maybe the Mossberg 590A1 before the SPAS. Making a new stock for the SPAS-12 at this point in time is like introducing high-cap, extended magazines for the HK P7. The SPAS-12 was totally overshadowed outside of video games and action movies by the SPAS-15 decades ago (although I’m pretty sure the SPAS-15 was always illegal to import into the US for civilian purposes), and the -15 model itself has been displaced as Beretta’s flagship semi-auto tactical shotgun by the Benelli M4 (though the Vinci has been touted as the future of semi-auto shotguns, and a lot of companies, including Remington, seem to be copying the operating system of the Vinci for their own new shotguns). The Rem 870 is a good platform to make accessories for at least, and AR accessories are almost always profitable. I’m sure they’ll sell quite a few of these stocks to people who own ARs and 870s at least.

      • Anonymoose

        Actually, they should definitely make a version of this stock for the M590A1, and for the Mossberg 935 as well, before making one for the SPAS.

      • Burst

        Extended Hi-cap P7 magazines?

        SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!

  • Mike Knox

    ‘Torsion reaction recoil reduction’ or just plain old ‘multi-axial tension’, been done before..

    • Esh325

      A lot of technologies in the firearms that are toted as new have been done before, but the originals never took off or were poorly done, so some manufacturers jump on the chance of reintroducing that “new technology” to make a profit.

      The HK416 is a good example of this. Op rod AR15′s were done 40 years ago, but H&K arguably created the best op rod AR15 to date, and they were very good at advertising it, and reintroducing the concept of the OP rod AR15 to the market.

      • Mike Knox

        The difference is H&K knows what they were doing while the earlier Op-rods AR-15s were market stunts..

      • W

        colt flirted with a gas piston M16 system in the 1970s and there was a civilian product called the “rhino” meant for that platform too. I dont think the military ever decided to adopt such a system because given the technology at the time, it wasn’t decisively better.

        HK did do a groundbreaking job at popularizing the gas piston AR15 platform. They started a Cold War-esque technology race between at least a dozen companies to develop their own gas piston AR15 rifles…and those have admittedly yielded nothing particularly spectacular compared to the standard direct gas system.

      • matt

        Piston AR15s have been around forever. The origonal being the Armalite AR-18.

  • http://llarms.com LLARMS

    Good for them – I did not bother reading the comments, but I am sure they have been blasted by the usual Tier 1 operators that find time between missions to post in blog comment sections.

    To the company: keep at it – new products/innovation never happened because inventors listened to the, “That is stupid idea!” crowd. They are simply lashing out because they lack creative imagination (and they know it) and are jealous deep down.

    Keep up the good work and take the internet with a grain of salt.

    - Damien

    • Esh325

      I agree. We would be still using muskets if it weren’t for innovators.

    • matt

      Their engineers are making a innovating product with a useful function at a reasonable price. You’re idea is simply to make a 20lb stamped sheet metal handguard, a charge over $1000 for it; there is a big difference.

  • Esh325

    I’m not sure if making “spectacular” was their aim, and what would be “spectacular” in your opinion? They made the HK416 in response to special forces not finding the M4 reliable enough for their purposes.

  • cc19

    I bought a SPAS12 years back for the novelty and collectibility. That being said, you sure as hell won’t find me molesting it by attaching one of these things.

  • http://www.nashvillearmory.com Tennessee Handgun

    Movement is movement. Sometimes it doesn’t work as expected, but it’s better than sitting still.

  • Mark

    I think it should be “downward”, not “download”.

    • B

      Dang, I was going to buy it if it diverted all the recoil to the internet. Or if it let you download shells for it.

  • jellydonut

    Yes let’s produce a product in 2012 for a gun that is not only banned from importation but is also out of production.

    I take it this guy gauged the shotgun market by watching action movies.

    • TheIrateBlackGuy

      Company founder stated they are being designed for Remington 870. Big market there. Try reading next time.

  • http://flamedeleted إبليس

    It could work. Just attach the cheek piece to the buttplate. The rest of the stock would slide under it and not chafe your face. I hope this product succeeds.

  • Charlie

    They’re planning on making one for an AR-15 in 5.56, what for?

    • Esh325

      I imagine the stock fits AR15′s of all calibers, so it might be useful on calibers that have more recoil than a 5.56×45. They said it also would be useful for fully automatics.

    • W

      theres many other products too similar to this one for the AR15.

      • Esh325

        There are lots of recoil reducing buffers,springs, and stocks for the AR15, but I’m not aware one like this.

  • Francis

    Based on these comments, the company clearly made a marketing error by attaching it to a SPAS 12…

  • derfel cadarn

    This is another “improvement” on the hammer, you cannot eliminate the laws of physics. If you wish to push an object at high speeds there is a price that must be paid. Just like with the hammer as in guns there is no free lunch if you do not want shock or recoil in these items you had better go with NERF. If you desire more oomph ,you need to suck it up.

    • Esh325

      It sounds like the company must have given you an early stock for testing.

  • RustyShovel

    They should have designed it for the Benelli M4. I know, I know…the action probably wouldn’t cycle. Still, it’d be cool if they could make it work.