Steve Johnson

Founder and Dictator-In-Chief of TFB. A passionate gun owner, a shooting enthusiast and totally tacti-uncool. Favorite first date location: any gun range. Steve can be contacted here.


Advertisement

  • Reverend Clint

    looks more streamline than the ACR… but I could be wrong

  • Other Steve

    Build it in Radom, ship it to USA, put Walther branding on it and have them convert it from the importable sporting style to a good version… Then sell it to me!

    • Mark

      Yeah..me too…so that’s 2..let get to work here boys!

      • Mike

        Good news: I saw an interview with a guy from Bumar (the company that is working on this rifle), and he said there will be a civilian version available. Don’t hold your breath for a bullpup version, though, I got a feeling they’re treating it more like a curiosity than a serious development.

  • 15yroldgunman

    So is there anything about it being tested against the beryl

  • http://www.youtube.com/lordstickmax LordStickMax

    Wow. The freedom group should find a way to sue them. That’s ridiculous.

  • Kenny Blankenship

    I get the feeling someone at the top pointed to a Masada youtube video from 2007 and said to Radom, “Build me this rifle!”

    Would also like to see the bolt/carrier group and piston. AR-18 pattern? The safety selector seems to feature 45 degree angles between settings and it’s hard to tell but it doesn’t seem to have the triggerguard bolt catch.

    • Kenny Blankenship

      Nevermind, I guess it does rip off the ACR bolt catch, too.

      • tempest

        The ACR has no claim to that type of bolt catch either because they copied it wholesale from the XCR. Alex Robinson holds the patent for that type of bolt catch but that didn’t stop Magpul. It’s a well known fact (Google it) that the guys at Magpul wanted to make Masada the best firearm to date and reaching that goal included taking any and all features that they liked in other existing firearms. So, you have to decide: either bash Magpul and Bushmaster along wit the MSBS people, or you stop bashing everybody. You can’t have it both ways.

      • MNOR

        I find it funny that ACR-fanboys always claim that this polish rifle is “CLEARLY” an ACR knockoff because of the similar features on both weapons.
        Well, let’s not forget that the acr was designed around features from other weapons-systems and incorporated into a single package:
        Barrel and fire-selector from the AR-15, stock inspired from the SCAR, gas-system from another rifle(or was that from the SCAR to?).

        Regarding the bolt catch:

        Well as someone above stated, that feature was on the XCR, and even before that on HK’s XM8.
        “Whatever works” is the name of the game here, no point in designing over- or underengineered weapons just for the sake of originality. Not when soldiers lives are depending on they’re weapon to work when they need them to.

        So tell me again how it’s just you’re *insert weapon-system here” that’s original and everything else is just a copy.

    • Mike

      Nah, the mechanism was created before the guys responsible for ergonomics stepped into action. And since they’re young, thirty-ish IIRC, they took cues from the Masada.

      • Kenny Blankenship

        You’re right, I found a video of an earlier prototype which bears little resemblance to the ACR:

      • Kenny Blankenship

        “And since they’re young, thirty-ish IIRC, they took cues from the Masada.”

        Being young means they had to copy an existing design or were incapable of being original? Not a great excuse.

      • Mike

        No, being young means they have a firmer grasp on what’s going on in the world than our generals (we have an overpopulation of those lately, each goddamn chaplain automatically becomes a high officer of some sort) and seek inspiration instead of just cobbling together a mess of plumbing supplies, welded sheet metal and AK parts. When Magpul first unveiled the Masada, armchair shooters everywhere wanted to get it, hell, the Chinese even made an airsoft version of it before the real-steel was out. And so our designed looked at it and thought “Yeah. That’s how future looks. Let’s do it.”

  • JD

    Aside from being a direct knock off, that lower looks way bulkier than it needs to be. On a good note they probably crank out more prototypes in a week than Bushmaster has sold since release.

    I used to want an ACR bad, but between being the most unmodular modular rifle ever built and the excessive pricing, I don’t really think Freedom Group will be losing any revenue to this.

  • Hikerguy

    It does favor the Masada original version more than Remington’s, but there’s not too much difference there anyway. It does make me wonder if Magpul and or Remington had a hand in it’s development. If not, I’m sure they are not very happy with the Pole’s new rifle and could threaten legal action.
    Either way, it’s a good looking rifle.

  • FourString

    Looks like an awesome rifle. I love that slanted hexagonal indent on the magazine well. Good to see that our Polish allies are keeping up in weapons development!

    • Mike

      Yeah. Pretty much every weapon designed here before was cobbled together from AK parts, sheet metal and plumbing supplies.

  • Burst

    It’s nice that the first shooter still gets out the range, with his skin condition and all.

    • El Duderino

      That’s the new Fleshicam camouflage pattern. Keep up!

    • animalmenace

      Who voted this down? Seriously, that’s one of the funniest comments I’ve read on TFB.

  • LJK

    I still don’t get the endless “it’s just a ripoff of X!” messages.

    Until we invent some steam/laser/magic powered weapons, all new guns will look similar. They will have a lot of polymer since it’s cheap and light, they’ll most likely have similar ergonomic features since people are kind of alike (adjustable stock and cheek weld, similar selector switches, brass deflectors, grips and all the other goodies which make a rifle), they’ll have a long rail at the top and smaller ones on the stock (since that’s a nifty way of attaching attachments), they’ll have a gas piston operating system (that seems to be the way to go), they’ll be in 5.56 NATO, 5.45×39 or any of the other assault rifle calibers (common and plentiful), they’ll have some modularity to the design (the new rave; makes maintenance and logistics easier).

    It’s just not that strange that all new rifles resemble each other since that’s just the way modern handheld firearms have evolved. I wonder if similar arguments were thrown around in older days. “Hurrdurr, the Lee Enfield rifles are just copies of Mosin-Nagants since it has a wooden stock and a bolt-action mechanism!” “LOL, look at those Europens with their arquebus! The handgonne makers should sue since both are loaded from the muzzle!”

    • Kenny Blankenship

      Sure, by this time designers have figured out what works and modern carbines share lot of the same features. Still, perhaps the biggest thing the SCAR, ARX-160, and ACR share was creative industrial designers. All these guns have their own look-and-feel while possessing many of the same features. The guys at Radom had the opportunity to make an original-looking, uniquely Polish carbine but instead they took the easy route.

      • El Duderino

        Well, considering the other purely Polish engineering feats, such as the solar powered flashlight and the screen door on a submarine, it seems prudent that they’d develop a derivative rifle for their military. :D

      • RocketScientist

        “Well, considering the other purely Polish engineering feats, such as the solar powered flashlight and the screen door on a submarine, it seems prudent that they’d develop a derivative rifle for their military. :D”

        El Duderino: Oh NOW I get it, because Polish people are stupid!! Sorry, it took me awhile to figure that out, as I am of Polish descent (just like Nicolaus Copernicus, Frederic Chopin, Alexius Polonus, Marie Curie, ALL THREE of the mathematicians who broke the german’s Enigma code in WWII, Frank Paisecki, and too many of the most famous mathematicians and physicists to list). I had to take a break from my job (designing and testing mission-critical space and defense products used on things like the space station, the Curiosity mars-rover, guided nuclear missiles, etc.) to read through your post several times before the humor managed to soak through my thick Polish skull. It’s funny that as dumb as we poles are, we have consistently had one of the highest IQ averages in Europe (much higher than that of the US). Weird, right? Maybe that’s why they gave me these Masters and PhD degrees in physics and mechanical engineering, theres no way a dumb pole like myself could have earned them.

        You can go F**K yourself and your ignorant racist stereotypes, there’s no place for that here on TFB. A**hole.

      • El Duderino

        Touchy, touchy.

  • Esh325

    The people saying “it looks like a rip off this,this, and that.” I think modern assault rifles generally follow what works, and what doesn’t work. Great minds think alike.

    I’m curious as to why the Polish want to replace the Beryl. What was wrong with it? Is it for nationalistic reasons? They don’t want to use a rifle that reminds them of the communist years?

    • Jasta

      Well, Beryl is after all still basically nothing more than pimped AKM, the design that is more than 50 years old. It’s still robust, but has some ergonomic drawbacks, the upper receiver is not too friendly for optics, and with adding the new stock and Picatinny rails the rifle had reached definitely the end of it’s potential for development and is more or less morally obsolete.

      On the other hand, the Russians still are talking about copyright/license claims.

      • Esh325

        The M4 is based on a 55 year old design. Something only truly becomes obsolete when they created something new that’s proven to significantly out perform it. In the case of the AK design as a whole, I don’t believe there are any new designs that significantly outperform it in every way. I’ve never fired the Beryl, but how is it not as friendly for mounting optics? Good point about the licensing issue, that could very likely be a reason.

      • Jasta

        When it comes to optics, Beryl has one common feature of all AK derivatives: it is mounted the on removable receiver cover. So, after every weapon disassembly for cleaning etc. you have to recalibrate the optics. In later, modified variants of Beryl it’s been solved by the optics mounting base over cover, but it’s still basically more bypass than perfect solution, since this base has it’s own height and in makes the aiming less comfortable than in i.e. AR-15 derivatives. Introduction of completely new receiver, without this drawback, would have resulted in in practically new weapon. The new needs new machines and so on. However, it’s completely contradictory to idea behind Beryl: to use the existing tooling, inherited from AKM and Tantal.

        You say that new new design shall significantly outperform the old one in every way. But does Tavor outperform in such a way Galil and M16/M4? Is HK416 better in absolutely every aspect than M4? Does the Mk 48 meet your criteria of sufficient progress over Mk 43? MSBS was designed with ergonomics in mind, those who had it in hands say that it’s radically better than Beryl in this respect. It adds modularity and adaptability completely absent in original AK design and it’s direct derivatives. It seems to be more enough to justify the new design.

      • Esh325

        Depending on the type of mount, rezeroing is not necessary. At least in my experience, the parabellum mount for instance does not require rezeroing after cleaning. It all depends on the mounting system. Adjustable cheek pads can be used to solve the height issue. I can’t speak for those weapons, I’ve never used them.

      • Esh325

        Modular and adaptable, yes I’ll give you that. But what use really is being able to switch between a bullpup and regular rifle? Are they going to issue every soldier a bullpup conversion kit? I think when you try to design something to fufill multiple roles, you’ll find that it doesn’t do anything good.

      • Jasta

        Of course, switching between classical configuration and bullpup, even if it’s not only the marketing gadget, will be useful rather for gunneys or accounting officers. But opportunity to quickly convert the weapon from the standard rifle with 16-in barrel to CQB configuration with 10 inches in the front will be for sure the advantage for some soldiers.

  • Chase

    I am VERY glad to see a bayonet lug on this rifle. In my opinion, no rifle should be without one.

    • Esh325

      I think a bayonet lug is just a waste of machining. And even if your rifle doesn’t have one, I believe they make bayonet mounting adapters that utilize railed handguards.

      • El Duderino

        Because nothing says “secure” like a knife mounted to a piece of plastic using a bolt and friction.

      • Chase

        Actually that would be even better. I think I have read of such a thing, but in the USA they’re impossible to get, and also the handguards on our rifles aren’t long enough anyway.

  • justsomeguy

    Relax Mr. RocketScientist, smart people usually don’t have to go around pointing out how smart they are.

    http://www.polackthefilm.com/polack_the_film/Polacks_Polish_Jokes.html

    http://laughnet.net/polish-jokes-p-310.html

    If it’s on the internet it has got to be true, right?

    • RocketScientist

      You are exactly correct, we usually don’t. Just like black people don’t usually have to go around pointing out that they aren’t rapists and don’t like fried chicken, and Mexicans don’t usually go around pointing out how not-lazy they are, and Muslims don’t usually go around pointing out how they are not terrorists and Americans don’t usually go around pointing out how they are not fat imperialistic warmongers and Japanese men don’t usually go around pointing out how they don’t have small penises. But when confronted by an insecure ignoramus who can only feel better about how miserable his pitiful life is by reducing other races/religions/nationalities to a patently false punchline, it sometimes becomes prudent to point out the inconsistencies in their beliefs. Maybe if they are confronted by reality often enough, even their limited mental faculties might be capable of drawing the correct conclusion. Probably not though.

      • Chase

        Wait, what? Blacks don’t really like fried chicken? Sir/Madam, I beg to differ, EVERYONE likes fried chicken. It’s delicious. The stereotype is incorrect only insofar as it implies that non-blacks don’t also love fried chicken.

  • http://flickr.com/photos/sh0ckwave Shockwave

    I think it’s cool to see the ambidextrous charging handle canal on the bottom photo. Looks like a neat rifle to me.

  • John Doe

    Copying the ACR? Please.

    Most rifles will look similar for the same reason most laptops look similar. People all want good ergonomics and certain features. Looks like an ACR/SCAR/ARX-160/etc. design is good. You don’t see AR manufacturers complaining to each other, do you?

    • Hikerguy

      Is it a direct copy of the ACR? No. With the quirks of the Beryl, I think they knew the new service rifle had to be right. I’m sure they sat down and looked at what features of the other rifles you mentioned that were beneficial, what made it ergonomic, what made it function well, and could it be easily adapted to fit a number of roles. There are only so many ways you can design a weapon that make it look different from others.
      To me the most important thing is how well the internals (under the hood) function. Is the action rugged, reliable, and easy to maintain?
      Of the new generation of carbines, including the ACR, SCAR, the ARx-160, and the new Czech Bren, the MSBS will be an equal. Kudos to the design team and engineers.