Steve Johnson

Founder and Dictator-In-Chief of TFB. A passionate gun owner, a shooting enthusiast and totally tacti-uncool. Favorite first date location: any gun range. Steve can be contacted here.


Advertisement

  • 15yroldgunman

    Just like sons of guns still think there are better rounds for wild pigs ar-10 would have done fine

    • Nater

      .458 SOCOM is the only way you can hunt deer in Indiana with an AR. At least the only way that I am aware of. The .458 SOCOM is pretty comparable to 12-gauge slug, in an AR.

      • 15yroldgunman

        What kind of deer here in Canada mostly it’s 270 or 308 for our whitetail

      • 6677

        Some states in the US limit what rounds you can shoot deer with, same in britain too.

        A .50 beowolf should fit the bill aswell.

      • 15yroldgunman

        So it’s just to get a more ethical kill cause I’ve wounded a few with my 270 Remington 700

      • 6677

        Precisely why a minimum caliber must be used. Shoot a deer with a .223 rem and chances are unless you get a lucky shot in on a vital organ then that deer isn’t going down, you’ve just wounded it and then it falls into the realms of animal cruelty. Chances are its now legging it as fast as it can and your not gonna get that good shot in again, if you’ve got a semi auto you can try pumping it full of lead as it runs but its probably a better idea to just bring a heavier round in the first place.

        Quick google search seems to recommend the .270 but that actually falls below the minimum caliber in most states and countries. I believe both USA and britain it must be at least a .3 of some sort, a .308 would fit the bill nicely but obviously your not going to be shooting that from an AR15, most of the larger caliber rounds for the 15 may have the width but still won’t have the energy for that one hit kill. The .458 socom, although not its intended purpose should bring deer hunting into the AR15 range.

        You must see where governments are coming from with the caliber restrictions on deer. In the UK one of the few allowable uses for hollow point rounds is for deer to help ensure that 1 hit kill, even then you need various permits and permissions to hunt deer or get hollow points.

      • Nater

        The reason in Indiana is because the .458 SOCOM isn’t anything resembling a long ranged cartridge. The topography is very flat, so they don’t let you hunt deer with many high-powered rifle rounds.

        As for the minimum deer cartridge, I’d say the .243 Winchester. You’ve got around 2000 ft-lbf of kinetic energy on tap and when combined with a good bullet design, it’s more than enough to bring down deer in one shot. I’ve heard of people having success with .22-250, but they were also pretty good shooters.

        The .270 Winchester is definitely “enough cartridge” for deer hunting. You have terminal performance that is pretty close to 7.62x51mm with a flatter trajectory. It’s a .30-06 necked down for 7.62mm to 6.8mm and is a very potent cartridge.

  • bbmg

    If you want to shoot subsonic but still retain high projectile energy it certainly is the gun for you.

    Lots of bullets to choose from including some nice big heavy ones: http://teppojutsu.com/458_SOCOM_bullet_options.jpg

  • Jorge Da Silva

    Great article..I was interested until i saw the price tag. Rock river arms has the same upper for almost 1/2 that. Even Red Jacket had a 458 upper for less…thats saying something!

    http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=253

    • Nater

      If I were buying a .458 SOCOM upper, I’d just have Teppo Jutsu build me one. They designed the cartridge, I’m sure they’re the most knowledgeable when it comes to building guns around it.

      I wouldn’t touch Rock River or Red Jacket with a ten foot pole. Wilson Combat isn’t exactly known for ARs, I’m not really interested in buying one from them either. They seem to specialize in safe queen-type ARs.

      • Andy from West Haven

        I talked Marty into building me a 16″ upper for a DPMS pattern AR-10 in .44 Automag. I caught him on a good day as he had a barrel blank laying around. That and we’ve been e-pals since the SOCOM was featured in a David Fortier article in Gun World back in 2001.

        Work is top notch. I’d recommend him too except that Marty is in Singapore and has been for almost two years. It’s work related. Not Teppojutsu related. A lot of people might not be aware of this but building uppers is a part time thing for him.

        Marty likes the guys at Rock River. If you can’t wait for Marty then you should buy from RR.

    • John Doe

      I believe this blog has a rule:

      “Thou shalt not speaketh of the silly rednecks with a TV show, lest they come with their ill tidings and molested vintage tacticool rifles.”

  • Tom Stone

    Just a little pricy.

  • Reverend Clint

    $1300 seems a bit steep for basically a different barrel

  • Abram

    Caveat emptor. You get what you pay for. Wilson Combat is a custom grade production house. RR, not so much. Red Jacket, well I’ll stick with known, reliable brands.

  • Tuulos

    The .458 SOCOM has seen some use in moose hunting here in Finland and from the pics & stories I’ve seen it seems to be doing very well indeed.

    Sadly the uppers they sell here cost 1450€ which translates to $1800.

  • jon

    Umm I’m pretty sure .223 is more than enough to take down a deer unless your a terrible shot in the first place. Its not only about the size of the bullet its the energy it has when it gets to the target any shot placed close to a vital organ in a deer with a .223 is going to wreak havoc just look at what it does to the ballistic jelly. You could kill a deer with a .22 LR if you were a good enough shot.

    • Andy from West Haven

      Pound for pound animals are harder to kill than human beings.

      Why use something what the majority of hunters consider marginal over something more efficient and decisive? Not every hunter has the skill of a Marine sniper.

      And by your logic we should all be carrying .22 handguns for self defense.

      • jon

        I have killed plenty of deer with .223 no problem considering the size of a deers vital organs if you can’t hit that than you have no business in the woods in the first place. Also note I have killed many deer with a bow and arrow….so this is just a dumb argument that hunters use to justify their pricy “hunting” calibers. Out west at distance and with large game that’s a different story, but for your typical Midwest white tail .223 is just fine.

      • jon

        And no by your logic a whitetail deer is a cracked out punk trying to kill me. Laughabl

    • Andy from West Haven

      Funny how you never mentioned about bagging all those deer with a .223 in your first post. You went from “pretty sure” to bagging plenty of deer. But this IS the internet so you can pretty much say anything you want.

      I don’t hunt. But I know many that do and none of them hunt deer with a .223. Which is WIDELY considered a varmint round. You know, coyotes, prairie dogs etc.

      I did have a deer jump accross a two lane road in the backwoods of NJ at night on my way to Hancock’s Bridge. Hit it’s rear at 45 miles and hour. I looked for it, couldn’t find it. Damage to my car and no deer. But I’m sure a “cracked out punk” would have taken even less damage seeing as how they are tougher to kill.

      Yup. Laughable.

      • jon

        “Pretty sure” you don’t understand sarcasm then. And since you don’t hunt I guess you also consider the “rear” of a deer a vital organ and your car traveling at 45mph a bullet penetrating and destroying that organ. I’m sure the deer did limp off with two broken legs. But as a hunter I don’t aim for the hind quarters of a deer with a blunt object traveling 45mph I use a bullet traveling thousands of fps. Like I said this is a dumb argument. My advice is stick to things you know, not things your “friends” know. And don’t try to call people out on something you have no experience with. I’m not saying a deer is a frail little creature they are tough, but they are not tougher than a bullet placed in a vital organ and .223 is far from a varmint round.

      • Andy from West Haven

        I’m well aware that the vitals of any creature aren’t in their hindquarters but then I see you missed my point yet again.

        I searched for that deer for fifteen minutes thinking to put it out of it’s misery. “limped off with two broken legs”? Riiiight. MY POINT. That in a similar situation a cracked out perp just bolting away like that is highly unlikely.

        I will agree that if you are a good enough shot you can kill a deer with a .22 but just because you can doesn’t make it a good idea. Because is it ideal for the task? No. And I guess in over 47 years the .223 hasn’t been embraced as one of the go-to deer hunting cartridges. I guess most people must be brainwashed to prefer 25’s and 30’s.

        But it’s got to be that hunters like spending money for nothing, eh?

      • jon

        I guess you missed my point. The “cracked out punk” is trying to kill me, the deer is not actively attacking me so why go overboard with a hunting caliber more suited to out west, and again it goes back to shot placement I have shot deer with my 30-06 and my .223 and both fell within 10 yards yet I see others with .270 .308 ect wound plenty of deer. I’m done though your just convinced that no one should ever shoot a deer with a .223 which is fine some people probably should use a hand cannon to blast deer they are such poor shots.But I don’t consider someone that bad at shooting a sportsman.

    • W

      with open-tip match grade ammunition, 5.56 is decisively deadly against four-legged and two-legged creatures.

  • Dan

    That’s what common sense says, but I’ve not heard a consistent answer from the Indiana DNR. Besides, the southern half of Indiana is very hilly. I’ve asked DNR officers about this, and the common responses are either the proximity of houses or I am not sure.

    Other states are flatter than Indiana, and have similar population density, but allow for long-ranged cartridges. They allow them for hogs. (Ok, I know the presence of wild hogs is thin at this point, and not many appear to be hunting them, yet.) But still, if this were the logic, then why allow any caliber for hogs?

    • jon

      Haha nothing the DNR does is consistent or even rational. Like most government agencies their premise was good but they have been infiltrated by idiots.

    • jon

      I guess you missed my point. The “cracked out punk” is trying to kill me, the deer is not actively attacking me so why go overboard with a hunting caliber more suited to out west, and again it goes back to shot placement I have shot deer with my 30-06 and my .223 and both fell within 10 yards yet I see others with .270 .308 ect wound plenty of deer. I’m done though your just convinced that no one should ever shoot a deer with a .223 which is fine some people probably should use a hand cannon to blast deer they are such poor shots.But I don’t consider someone that bad at shooting a sportsma

  • ZF

    mmmm 458.

    The revisiting of 45/70, but in a semi auto platform.

    • Cymond

      Funny you mention that. 45-70 ballistics call for .45-70 sights. Teppo Jutsu made a custom rear sight out of a Smith 1873 Buckhorn sight and an ARMS mount. Pics & posts at arfcom indicate hits at 720 yards on a 2′ square target.

      http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=121&t=278647

  • Dan

    Some members of my family had used .22s to shoot deer… they shot a lot of them… more then were legal – even my father did this (I can say this now that he is dead). We used to shoot our steers with a .22 when we butchered them. A .22 is fine for a large deer and smaller game. Althogh, at along distance you would want something larger – everthing has its effective range. It also works well on human when used correctly. A .223 should also work fine for deer. Before assuming what a gun should handle you should do some research first rather than assuming.