Tactical Revolver in Germany

2h493bild-tm-tfb

This photo was taken yesterday in Hamburg, Germany when the MEK (Mobiles Einsatzkommando / Mobile Tactical Squad) raided a bar after one patron killed another. What I find is interesting is a revolver being used by one of the leading officers. It is not often you see police using revolvers when MP5s and high-capacity semi-auto pistols are on hand.

The revolver could be the Smith & Wesson Model 625, which some German SEK police squads have in service.

UPDATE: Michael Zeleny suggests it is a Korth revolver. Ducky points out that the MEK mainly use the S&W 13/65.

[ Many thanks to JR for emailing us the link. ]




Steve Johnson

Founder and Dictator-In-Chief of TFB. A passionate gun owner, a shooting enthusiast and totally tacti-uncool. Favorite first date location: any gun range. Steve can be contacted here.


Advertisement

  • Quintin

    Ha! A real man doesn’t need an Mp5 to take out one angry guy.

    Of course, he brought all of his friends with guns too. ~_~

  • Ben

    Maybe he’s the German Dirty Harry

    • Gunhead

      “Schmutzig Harald”, pursuing his own kind of justice on the mean streets of Hamburg. Fühlst du dich glücklich?

    • schizuki

      “I know what you’re thinking – did he fire sechs shots, or only fuenf?”

    • lolinski

      Ich weiß, was du denkst – hat er Feuer Sechs Schüsse, oder nur fuenf?

  • Gidge

    Too hard to tell without a higher resolution photo.

    Smith and Wesson actively markets the M&P R8 (clearly not this gun) to law enforcement for use in SWAT teams. Having a .357 Magnum loaded with either hollow points or AP’s for a reliable one shot drop or enemy body armor isn’t a bad idea.

    But I can’t help thinking there are better ways to do things

    • Gunhead

      Body armor yeah (with steel-core), but there’s no such thing as a reliable one shot stop. Random factors like to interfere…

      • Mu

        Not sure German police is allowed hollow points by now. For the longest time they were equipped under Hagen convention rules, aka FMJ only.

    • anon

      German police usually use RUAG Action 4 ammunition which is not FMJ
      http://www.ruag-ammotec.ch/Defence_and_Law_Enforcement/9×19/Deformation_ammunition

    • Rangefinder

      I want an R8. Going to have to settle for the old faithful model 10 for the time being.

  • El Freddio

    Don’t GIGN still use their MR 73 revolvers, or am I totally wrong?

    • http://www.subrah.com Michael Zeleny

      Yes, they do.

    • snmp

      In fact, GIGN use MR73 & S&W stainless

  • Vhyrus

    Since all the other guns were HK they wanted to make sure at least ONE person on the team had a reliable weapon.

    • Vhyrus

      Uh oh… the fanboys are massing….

    • W

      there always seems to be “that guy”.

    • Flounder

      LOL +1 for you sir!

    • RickOB

      I don’t care what your preference is, that was funny.

    • Tim

      Well in that case, as the Mall Ninja once noted, they should have used an SW5.

  • Higgs

    The SEK has used revolvers for a long time. This blog even did a post on the silenced version.

    • noob

      Interesting, I wonder why the officer is not carrying a shield to take advantage of the revolver’s resistance to binding on the shield’s side?

  • ducky

    According to an article in a german gun journal (caliber, December 2004)
    http://www.spezialeinheiten-online.de/html/mek_hamburg.html
    they are using S&W 13/65 mainly.

    • http://www.subrah.com Michael Zeleny

      S&W M13 and M65 lack the full barrel underlug seen in the photo, whereas the recoil shield depicted there is too massive for S&W L-frame.

      • Bo Jangles

        The recoil shield that is totally covered by the guys thumb right?

  • Yves

    Looks like old french doctrine (maybe is even older and not french), revolvers are used in extreme close quarter fights because the semiauto guns don´t cycling well at the moment where the slide or barrel are touching something (the target,your body, your shield) or being held by someone, and many people prefer .357 mag over other pistol cartridges by the mix of power and decent recoil.

    • Flounder

      Semi auto’s might not function perfectly but if you grab the cylinder on a DA revolver it will not function at all… Although if the revolver is already cocked and someone grabbed the cylinder it wouldn’t matter because you would still have the one shot. Just saying that revolvers aren’t necessarily better than autoloaders for CQB. But they are different.

      • Yves

        Yep, you´re right. But in techniques for disarm an attacker most of them say that you need to grab the gun by the barrel to get the bigger moment over attacker´s wrists and grip, and to “fix your gun” you probably need to re-cock the semiauto using both hands meanwhile in the revolver, you only need to re-pull the trigger if the gun is already free and you have one free arm to press, push or hit attacker´s head or neck. And my last argument, some people think that a revolver´s grip is priceless over a semiauto´s grip.
        And in final case, the french use it, but it doesn´t mean that is superior, they had enormous errors in what doctrine means, so they can be wrong.

  • http://www.subrah.com Michael Zeleny

    It’s a stainless Korth, as witness its full barrel underlug and stout recoil shield.

    Good choice.

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Korth-Waffen/201323369922857

    • Bo Jangles

      You mean the recoil shield that is totally obscured by the guys thumb?

  • Alex-mac

    A revolver can have it’s trigger highly tuned. So it might offer an edge for that ‘hostage shot’.

    • DW

      Sarcasm?

      • C. Trapp

        Single action, I suppose.

      • Other Steve

        DW, I wish, but I really don’t think so… It’s just been getting worse and worse here

  • Mike

    My apologies if this is utter dross, but aren’t there rubber bullets in pistol/revolver type calibres? and if so, might a revolver be better suited to such munitions? I “think” I read someplace about rubber bullets and (again, if so) maybe the the idea was to deal with the guy non-lethally.

    • Flounder

      Rubber bullets can be made to function in semi auto pistols. Or at least that’s what the companies making them say. But your general thought is a good suggestion; he could be using some sort of exotic ammo that has not been thoroughly tested in an autoloader and the officer just trusts his revolver more in that situation.

  • Big Daddy

    According to a certain blog I read last week this guy is insane. I guess he forgot to read that blog.

    I’m sure he has a reason and if questioned he would come up with something we haven’t thought of.

    Although the poster Yves came up with a very plausible explanation.

    It could also be loaded with some type of special ammo that won’t cycle in an auto loader. We don’t know what they use and they don’t want anybody to know.

  • El Freddio

    Just noticed the revolver guy seems to have a lot more stuff on his back than the other officers. Maybe its a weight saving thing? (Doubt it, as SWAT type raids seem to be shorter, but I’m not an expert by any means)

    • http://zbranekvalitne.cz/ Czechnology

      I wouldn’t say that a revolver is in any way significantly lighter than modern plastic semi-automatic pistols.

      • El Freddio

        Agreed

  • http://www.ballseyesboomers.blogspot.com/ Glenn B

    Are you sure that is a real raid in progress and not a training exercise? I ask because, everyone on the line, from the person in the brown jacket and jeans on back, looks as if they are dilly-dallying or relaxed and are not set and ready to go. Heck, even the guy right in front of the person in the brown jacket is messing with his gear or so it looks. Pretty sloppy based on my experience.

    • mr_lorenco

      So you are basically saying that cooler clothes make a policeman/soldier more effective,aha,plausible…NOT ;)

    • Jeff

      They probably had to get there as fast as possible, kinda like how the SWAT team was wearing sweatsuits during the North Hollywood shooting

  • Esh325

    Is it typical for them to call a SWAT team for just one guy? In the US at least, I don’t think they call SWAT teams for situations like this, but I could be wrong.

    • Curzen

      Being originally from Hamburg, someone shooting another person in public is a very rare and highly unusual situation there compared to what I see in the news here in Atlanta. But to be honest I read about a SWAT unit being called on a single guy with a gun here as well.

    • Marc

      What? Armed to the teeth SWAT teams have been deployed to serve warrants.

    • Reverend Clint

      swat is used all the time with single individuals and drug houses, this aint the movies regular beat cops wouldnt know how to handle this.

    • 6677

      In most european countries it isn’t even nearly as easy to get hold of a firearm as it is in the US, hence gun crime is usually lower (although the black market for firearms is probably larger).

      As a result most european police forces simply aren’t equipped to counter gun crime. Quite a few eurozone countries don’t even have police officers carrying firearms.

      In the US a cop would nearly always have a sidearm and it wouldn’t be unusual for them to have a backup aswell, plus their patrol cars may have either a rifle or shotgun and I assume they would probably have body armour to, 1 cop may not have the training and equipment of a SWAT officer but is still a force to be reckoned with.

      Lets take the other end of the spectrum which is probably britain (where I am). An individual police officer is not trained in usage of firearms, firearms training is an additional course taken by a select few officers. Even these officers do not get access to firearms on patrol, it seems to be more an awareness thing. Vehicles do not carry firearms either. Instead a british police officer just has his baton and some body armour aswell as an emergency button on his radio (which I assume US police have aswell anyway). We then have armed response vehicles. Most riot police will be trained in firearms usage but will only deploy with full body armour, a shield and baton again. It is incredibly rare for british police to ever carry a firearm at all. Derick Baird and Roul moat (may have mispelt) I think are prime examples of why the US way is better as our police just cannot counter it, but the counter argument is that its so rare for anyone in britain tohave a weapon that police don’t need to expect it (although knife crime is of course around, don’t need a gun for that though). We do have the odd taser floating around and thats about it.

      I think germany its probably somewhere in between the 2. Gun crime is rare so a single officer might not be trained to deal with a shooting, hence deploying swat equivelants.

      • Sebastian

        Gun violence is rare in germany but the police is trained in the “defensive” use of firearms. All policemen are armed and a patrol car usually contains an MP5.

        Why not deploy an SEK unit if it’s likely you encounter someone with a gun. The normal police isn’t trained for that kind of situations.

      • bob

        I think the whole UK average LEOs being unarmed largely due to feel good left politics is plain dangerous for the officers involved and I could think of many scenarios where that would be lethal to the cops involved. I think the Germans have the much safer approach with hoping for the best and being prepared for the worst on a individual officer bases and having SWAT as a back up in delicate situations, which is no different than from the U.S. approach.

        On the U.S. gun crime thing I’d like to point out to our friends around the world that the US is a massively culturally and geographically diverse country of 330 million going to 400 million, our homicide rate is 30,000 related gun deaths a year according to the FBI.

        However out of the 30,000 deaths, 60% are “gun inflicted” suicides that would have mostly taken place irregardless of the availability of guns. Out of the remaining 40% which are the gun inflicted murders, the majority involve a victim with a criminal record or that is engaged in the criminal drug trade in the commission of a crime.

        Statistically speaking anywhere from 5,000-8,000 innocent people are murdered with guns in the U.S. out of a population of 330+ million a year. Compare that to the UK per capita murder rate of innocent people and in some years the U.S. has a lower violent murder rate than the U.K for example with population 3 or 4 times larger, never mind geography that necessitates owning of guns by civilians, I get weekly visits by mostly non-violent brown bears in my backyard for example that require me having a loaded 10mm handgun and a .30-06 rifle at all times, don’t think that’s an issue in Europe to my knowledge.

        Our violent crime rates have been going down steadily since the 1980s and I largely attribute that to the courts viewing the 2nd amendment applying rightfully to law abiding citizens and to and the majority of U.S. states enacting self-defense laws and concealed or open carry laws of guns. In the U.S. a criminal breaking into your house or trying to rob, rape etc. always runs the high risk of walking into one of the 90+ million civilian gun owners. A polite society is a well armed society.

      • ducky

        Sebastian,
        regular street cops here in Berlin do 2 training sessions (45 rds each) per year. Wouldn’t call that trained. Barely a reminder that the thing goes bang when you pull the trigger…

      • 6677

        Of course the british way is lethal to the officers,.
        In both of these major cases in the UK in the last few years I believe police being better armed would have been to great benefit, whether police should all carry a sidearm or whether there should be a single weapon per vehicle is a different argument that someone else can have (I personally think sidearms).
        The 2010 Northumbria shootings: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Northumbria_Police_manhunt
        One cop permanently blinded, he later hung himself, his family I believe have started a charity of some sort.

        The cumbria shootings:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbria_shootings
        Derick bird managed to kill 12 other people before police got to him, however it isn’t really known how bird was a licensed firearms holder when he had a criminal record which in the UK would normally prevent a person from owning a firearm, more police failings if you ask me. Although no police were wounded many police and ambulance service personnel were not allowed into the areas he had been spotted in, armed response teams couldn’t get there quickly enough and by the time the police did catch up with him he’d killed himself, thankfully there wasn’t a standoff.

        I fully believe officers should be armed, even without there being many shootings in britain theres still alot of knife crime and police have to get close to an armed man to disarm him still, just as an intimidatory thing the usual “put your hands on your head” while pointing a gun at them should either a) make the drop the weapon or b) make them run at you or away by which point I think an officer would have the right to fire a shot or 2.

        Want more police failings, the nearest armed response van with a nice selection of MP5’s on board was left unlocked next to the police station last year, of course someone got in, didn’t manage to take anything as its all chained down but who leaves the van unlocked unattended.

        Anyway, firearms not politics (although british gun politics suck)

      • noob

        http://www.metro.co.uk/news/69380-policeman-tells-of-moment-de-menezes-was-killed

        of course there is one more gross doctrinal problem with having unarmed officers mixed up in operations with armed weapons squads: communications failure.

        witness the mistaken extrajudicial killing of innocent brazillian electrician juan carlos de menzes in the wake of the london bombings. the police surveillance officer designated “Ivor” told the weapons squad that there was a brown skinned terror suspect in jeans and a jacket boarding a tube train, so the squad promptly shot de menzes dead and pointed their weapons at “Ivor” because they didn’t know him and he was almost identically dressed.

        not many people follow this case. probably because it’s so *puts on sunglasses* underground.

      • 6677

        Yes I am also familiar with that case. Wasn’t the “marksman” who fired the shot eventually found guilty of murder?

      • noob

        http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/dec/12/de-menezes-verdict

        the weapons officers designated C12 and C2 who fired the fatal shots were not tried for murder because the coroner returned an open verdict, not a verdict of unlawful killing.

        http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/nov/23/jean-charles-de-menezes-settlement

        the family took a payout and dropped it.

  • Pavao Vicario

    Greetings all. Whether it is a Korth or a S&W I can not argue, but all of the mentioned above about the reasons of using a revolver is true, well except the Dirty Harry and the Vhyrus´s theory(although made me laugh). As I recall the U.S. Delta Teams (which are trained especially for hostage situations) used revolvers rather than pistols because of the hi power rounds, various non lethal rounds and reliability.IF THEY USE IT THAN THERE IS NO POINT IN DISPUTING ANYMORE ABOUT IT!THEY KNOW THEIR BUSINESS! As for the question of modern semi autos not firing when the slide is pressed against something/someone I know for sure it is resolved at least with the Springfield XD.

    • W

      US “Delta Teams”, or any unit in the US military for that matter, dont use revolvers. They use a assortment of semi-automatics. Revolvers are obsolete for military service and have been so since the introduction of the 1911 100 years ago.

      • Esh325

        I think it was DA/SA automatics that made revolvers obsolete. Revolvers were just as popular as ever even when the Browning Hi Power and 1911 were popular.

      • W

        jesus christ, think people.

        what was the military’s side arm before the 1911? colt and smith & wesson revolvers. They were replaced by the 1911. Smaller numbers of revolvers dwindled out of existence as the decades rolled on. The truth is that semi-automatics became generally reliable enough to warrant replacing the tried and true revolvers because they have superior firepower and can be reloaded much faster. I suggest you read about the Moro guerillas in the Philippine- American War and the advantages in firepower a repeating handgun would have.

        Its not a statement against revolvers. Each weapon has its advantages and disadvantages. A revolver’s advantages are no longer relevant in the military realm.

      • Charles222

        FWIW, Devgru issued the S&W M66 for at least a portion of the 80s. I’m assuming because of the superfocus on the amphibious special operations they had then-all stainless steel construction would obviously be nice for guys swimming all the time in the days before NP3 and other finishes like that.

      • Blackhawk2001

        I’ve read that Delta team members used a variety of sidearms, as did SEALs and yes, revolvers were among them. As to the revolver being an obsolete military weapon, that may have been so, but as an Army Aviator, my issue sidearm was a revolver from 1970 until sometime around 2000 when we started being issued M9s.

      • Chucky

        W,
        I highly suggest you reread through the history books yourself. The Colt 1911 never saw service in the Philippines until WW2. What was used to great effect in the Moro-wars was the good ol’ Colt 1873 in .45 Colt, not ACP. By their standards it was an antiquated single action revolver and what was really issued was the high-tech, double action Colt 1894 in .38 special. However, a lot of soldiers found it inadequate so they switched back to their old SAAs. Lacking in supply of the old western revolvers, Colt made the 1902 and 1909 DA in the same caliber which saw the end of the Philippine insurgence in 1913. While the Colt 1911 entered service in the year of its namesake, they didn’t bother sending any to the Philippines because, well, the revolvers were doing a good enough job not to need them.

      • Pavao Vicario

        I am so frustrating now that I can’t find the book with the FREAKIN PICTURES of Deltas training in a”Hostage room” and carrying guess what? REVOLVERS!!! It was a book issued in former Yugoslavia about all worlds handguns. And the Croatian military magazine “Hrvatski vojnik” of around 1992 had a debate about using a pistol or a revolver in military and they used the same pictures!

      • W

        “W,
        I highly suggest you reread through the history books yourself. The Colt 1911 never saw service in the Philippines until WW2. What was used to great effect in the Moro-wars was the good ol’ Colt 1873 in .45 Colt, not ACP.”

        I think you need to pay attention to detail. Nowhere did I say the 1911 was used in that war (it was first used in WWI). I said the disadvantages of revolvers, even the 1873, prompted the army to conduct research for a new sidearm. A revolver’s slow reload rate was a disadvantage in jungle warfare and it was noted; that is why the next service arm was a repeater.

        “By their standards it was an antiquated single action revolver and what was really issued was the high-tech, double action Colt 1894 in .38 special. However, a lot of soldiers found it inadequate so they switched back to their old SAAs. Lacking in supply of the old western revolvers, Colt made the 1902 and 1909 DA in the same caliber which saw the end of the Philippine insurgence in 1913. While the Colt 1911 entered service in the year of its namesake, they didn’t bother sending any to the Philippines because, well, the revolvers were doing a good enough job not to need them.”

        While the 1911 was indeed adopted in 1911, predictably, service revolvers were still kept in service until they could be phased out. In the larger picture, handguns have a very little effect on wars. The Army and Marine Corps did see the 1911 advantageous enough, for a major war in trenches, to ramp up production. Big difference between a counter-insurgency and world war.

        “I am so frustrating now that I can’t find the book with the FREAKIN PICTURES of Deltas training in a”Hostage room” and carrying guess what? REVOLVERS!!! It was a book issued in former Yugoslavia about all worlds handguns. And the Croatian military magazine “Hrvatski vojnik” of around 1992 had a debate about using a pistol or a revolver in military and they used the same pictures!”

        And where did I say “nobody” used revolvers after the 1911? the regular military didn’t, with a small number being issued to air crew (not all) and possibly special forces. Vehicle crews also used the M3 grease gun in desert storm but that didn’t change the fact that it was obsolete. Given the 70s and 80s was a era of the 1911 with no other decent repeater with the Glock and SIG well out of reach, i would have chosen a revolver too. Times have changed.

        The fact is that now, currently, in the 21st century, special forces don’t use revolvers, not discounting what a individual operator may do out of preference. The fact that police forces still have a few in their inventories is testament to personal preference, though i disagree that they are “more advantageous” in the hands of a lead man equipped with a ballistic shield. Semi-automatics can be cycled, if necessary, on the hip holster, parts of the shield, or shooter’s equipment, which is why most police departments use semi-automatics (even by the shield).

        I think you guys dont like my opinion. This is the reality of 21st century warfare and I cannot change that.

      • Chucky

        W,
        You wrote

        “read about the Moro guerillas in the Philippine- American War and the advantages in firepower a repeating handgun would have.”

        when in fact repeating or auto-loading handguns were never used. You must have read “.45″ in the history books and assumed ACP. Rate of fire was never an issue, it was sheer muzzle energy. And the reason why they eventually switched to automatics in the first place is cost; revolvers are simply more expensive to make.

        If you really want to be technical about it, the US Navy actually still use revolvers to this day: Milkor MGL. Sure it’s classified as a destructive device but that’s from the round and that spinning wheel unmistakably makes it a revolver too.

      • W

        “when in fact repeating or auto-loading handguns were never used. You must have read “.45″ in the history books and assumed ACP. Rate of fire was never an issue, it was sheer muzzle energy. And the reason why they eventually switched to automatics in the first place is cost; revolvers are simply more expensive to make.”

        i dont think you understand what i wrote. what i meant by that comment is that the army used its experience with revolvers in the Moro insurgency to help develop its next firearm, which explains why they invested time in the development of the 1911 and subsequently used it in WWI. that is vastly different than saying they used the 1911 in the moro insurgency. Why do i have to keep killing this stupid rebuttal over and over again?

        Rate of fire was clearly a issue. once you fire the six rounds, those rounds had to be reloaded and this is significantly slower than a magazine fed repeater. It takes only a couple of seconds to load a seven round 1911 magazine. Also, the M1873 was a single action revolver! which is making a serious compromise. the 1892 was double action though its 38 long colt was the reason why it was supplemented and replaced. That is also why the Colt New Service was adopted by the Army in 1909, because it was 45 Colt and double action. They would all be largely replaced by the 1911 because of the difference in firepower.

        It was determined the 45 ACP was a fair compromise between the 38 and 45 long colt cartridges. It could be loaded in a repeater and had more mild recoil, though retained the 45 caliber’s reputation for effectiveness against humans.

        “If you really want to be technical about it, the US Navy actually still use revolvers to this day: Milkor MGL. Sure it’s classified as a destructive device but that’s from the round and that spinning wheel unmistakably makes it a revolver too.”

        Um, not so much. The Milkor is a grenade launcher, not a revolver. Enough said, were done.

  • Charles222

    I certainly hope German cops don’t need a submachine gun and 300+ rounds of ammo for one guy trapped in a bar.

    • Yves

      Remember germans are evil and intelligent, whatever the cops or the drunk.

  • Curtis

    Just a guess, but a revolver has the advantage that it doesn’t eject brass for people to slip on in a dynamic entry (unless you dump the brass).

    • Other Steve

      Can’t tell if serious….. really hope not.

    • srsanbo

      It also doesn’t have a slide that can be jammed or blocked when the user is wielding a shield.

  • Lance

    There is nothing wrong with using a good .357 mag or .44 mag revolver they do the job just fine.

  • Mike Knox

    Someone was being nostalgic..

  • Netforce

    To me, a revolver is one reliable firearm.

  • armed_partisan

    I used to work with a guy who was a US Navy SEAL in the early 80’s and he told me he carried a S&W 686, because you couldn’t get stainless semi-autos back then that were worth a damn. I asked “What about suppressors?” and he said “Nothing on an oil rig at night is quiet, and if you’re shooting, they already know you’re there.” He also said “.357 kills things real good.”

    Obviously there’s a market for such things in the modern world, otherwise why would S&W have unveiled the TRR-8 a couple years ago? The reason I read was that the slide won’t get jammed on the riot/entry shields, and you don’t need two hands to clear a jam or misfire, just pull the trigger again. You watch enough entry teams, you look at enough photographs, and you see that 90% of the time, they’re doing that stuff one handed. Touching the guy in front of them to signal them, grabbing door handles, moving obstacles, using radios, etc. An SMG is not always ideal.

    • W

      A semi-automatic (glock or HK like what entry teams carry typically) can be unjammed with one hand also. any respectible organization trains shooters to clear the jam by cycling the action on the shield or equipment. The advantage over the revolver is that it can be reloaded one handed and it has 15-17 rounds versus 6.

  • Mr.B

    Sometimes revolvers are used by the point person, carrying the shield. Revolvers eliminate the possibility of common malfunctions, including short stroking. This can happen when the slide hits the shield and fails to strip and load a live round from the magazine. Some of the operators assigned to the shield, carry their revolver on a “string” around their neck. Their secondary weapon is also a handgun.

    • Flounder

      I like your explaination! Very reasonable. And I really mean that. It makes sense in everyway I can think of. Well except one and that is what does the officer do when they use their 6 shots? Cause a one handed reload on a revolver… LOL maybe that’s the reason for the lanyard? HMMMMMM

      • Mr.B

        There is no reloading involved. Once the revolver runs out of ammo, you let it hang and transition over to your secondary side arm with an extended magazine.

        One of the revolvers that is well suited to accomplish this task is the S&W M&P R8. The R8 is a large DA/SA revolver with an accessory rail that can accept a weapon light or a small laser.

      • Chucky

        There’s a video somewhere in Youtube with Massad Ayoob teaching you how to reload a revolver single handedly. Also why S&W made the M327 which holds 8 rounds.

  • RW Cubano

    I work in Law Enforcement and it is not uncommon today to find an individual who has difficulty charging an auto loader, has extremely small hands or simply cannot pass a firearms qual with a pistol and accommodations are made with a revolver.

  • K!P

    All the talk about reloads.. Its a house raid, not a video game where you enter the 3rd level of hell. by the time he has fired his 6 shots, emptied his backup and has to reload, he and his (10!) buddies have fired well over 300 rounds. (and he can still retreat using the shield) If they expect more than than that would handle, they would have brought a Leopard 2. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopard_2)

  • http://www.1jma.dk Witmann

    On armed Police in europe

    In Denmark, normal Beat cops used to be unarmed until 1965, when a criminal gunned down 4 unarmed cops. Before that there were some guns at the police stations but they were only carried when the situation was considered to be dangerous. The local police bought their own guns, so you had quite an array of pistols, carabines, rifles and revolvers around

    After 1965 all the Danish cops got Walter PPK’s as sidearms

    Madsen submachineguns and M1 carabines were used for high risk missions.

    Today the PPK’s are replaced by Heckler & Koch USP Compact 9mm and MP5’s for high risk missions. Special teams also have scoped rifles

    • Henry

      The GIGN has succesfully used 9 inch barreled MR73 Manurhin revolvers in certain events. There are a number of European LEA that use MR 73 revolvers. Some MR88 in S/S are used by other forces. The most lethal one shot one kill is the Federal 158HP 357 Mag. The second most lethal was a tie between the Federal 125 gr HP and the French SFM brass solid!

  • http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com Tam

    UPDATE: Michael Zeleny suggests it is a Korth revolver.

    Mr. Zelany really really wants it to be a Korth. They’re made of special German steel, lovingly hand-polished between the thighs of virgins by gnomes in the Black Forest.

    Certainly no elite German team would use something as plebeian as a *spit* American revolver. That would be like driving your Chevrolet to Wal-Mart to buy a California Riesling in a box…

    • Beefalo

      That’s probably what my filthy proletariat model 29 is missing: a good fräulein-midget rubdown.

    • W

      both of you stop. youre going to make me laugh to death.

    • http://www.subrah.com Michael Zeleny

      Can you identify another revolver with a full-length underlug and a thick recoil shield?

      • Bo Jangles

        You mean the recoil shield that is completely covered by the guys THUMB?….

  • David

    Don’t the MEK/ swat in Hamburg have some S&W 619 .357 revolvers too? So I have read someplace…

  • http://www.naturalmusclerelaxers.info/ Jaxsonr Cottonec

    Hello there, just become aware of your weblog via Google, and located that it is really informative. I’m going to watch out for brussels. I’ll be grateful for those who proceed this in future. Numerous folks will probably be benefited out of your writing. Cheers!

  • Hyok Kim

    Mr.Zeleny,

    Are you sure it’s stainless steel? My understanding of Korth revolver is that they use plating that looks like stainless steel on some of their models, but they use the same kind of steel for all of their revolvers.

    • http://www.subrah.com Michael Zeleny

      Yes, stainless Korth revolvers exist. I own a few of them. Unlike “plasma” PVD-coated revolvers numbered in the regular sequence, they have their own “S” prefix. They are no longer made, and older pieces command a big premium in Germany.

  • Hyok Kim

    Wow! I never knew Korth had stainless steel revolvers, and you have a few? I have been saving for a used, entry level dull blue 4″ non-exchangeable barrel Korth. And you have a few.

    • http://www.subrah.com Michael Zeleny

      Hey, I mope around with weapons for a living.

  • Michael Zeleny

    Here is proof positive of Korth revolvers having been issued by Bundeskriminalamt: http://www.hermann-historica.de/auktion/hhm50.pl?f=NR&c=47163&t=temartic_S_D&db=S-50.txt