Double Barrel AR-15

doble_barrel_ar_15-tfb

Israeli firm Silver Shadow are said to be debuting a double barreled AR-15 next month in Paris at the Eurosatory expo.

[ Many thanks to John for emailing us the photo and info. ]

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Steve Johnson

Founder and Dictator-In-Chief of TFB. A passionate gun owner, a shooting enthusiast and totally tacti-uncool. Favorite first date location: any gun range. Steve can be contacted here.


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  • Nathaniel

    In lieu of any real innovation, gun companies have instead decided that making dumb crap was their highest priority.

  • StickShift

    The perfect compliment to that double barrel 1911 from a few months back.

    • Darkness

      Next will be a double barrel Barret M82 .50…

  • Ben H

    Game Changer!!! I can’t wait to see what the guys at Red Jacket will come up with to compete with that…

    • MrMaigo

      A double barrel or a gatling Mosin

  • http://www.facebook.com/nikolay.mikulich Nikolay Mikulich

    Why in the name of Eugene Stoner they did this with the gun???
    I’am from Israel but this is poor atempt and clear try to gain attention!

  • Merc

    This to me is as silly as that bonkers double-barreled M1911 that came out a few months ago. And I love the 1911.

  • AntiCitizenOne

    Sort of want.

  • http://schwarmenius.wordpress.com/ Schwarm

    So the bolt release will be conveniently wedged between….uhh….ummm…Well at least the Magpul BAD lever will easily attach to…..ummm…..well at least the dual charging handles will be simple to actuat–….err…..well certainly the twin mag releases won’t be TOO complica—….

    Well at least the twin TRIGGER system shouldn—

    We’re sorry, Arsenal Arms drives Silver Shadow home from softball practice every Tuesday.

  • H. L.

    Double your pleasure, double your fun! It’s two guns in one! It looks like something you’d see the late Billy Mays hawking ….”but wait, there’s more!”

    • Paul

      Hey Hey! Billy Mays here! If you call in the next 30 minutes, Vince will hand-deliver your gun, the extra THIRD barrel, the triple Ginsu brand bayonet, AND our new, exclusive Reaper Woods patterned Slap Chop.

  • http://jamesrpatrick.com James Patrick

    What’s the advantage? Do they fire alternately for double the RPM? Or do they fire in tangent for double the recoil?

    • Chase

      You probably meant “in tandem” but yeah.

      And whether they chose double the RPM, or double the recoil, they will always have double the weight. :(

      • http://www.AllAK47.com Owensolid

        Wait, I think he’s onto something with “Tangent Fire”. How about we add a rangefinding optic like on the XM25 and the gun will auto-windage so that the two rounds will strike the target at the same point. we can also delay the fire of one section of the gun so that the rounds strike the same point successively, this giving a “double tap” every time.

        nah fuck it, this thing is worthless.

  • Mike

    I wonder if it would be considered full auto by most laws? Most countries define semi as one shot discharged per pull of the trigger. If it discharges two shots per pull then it may have issues? Unless it is a select fire weapon anyways?

    Sounds cool to have as a toy but lugging around and feeding I’m not so sure.

  • DW

    What’s better than a quarterpounder w/ cheese? Double quarterpounders!
    Now tell me what’s better than an AR-15?

    • Metalix

      A select fire AR-15?

      • DW

        Wrong, a DOUBLE-barrel selectfire AR15!!!11!!!11!!1 (/sarc
        Seriously, wouldn’t a Nordenfelt selectfire AR15 be the next best thing to a hand-held minigun?

  • higgs

    Now we need a double barreled bullpup that noone can shoot.

    • Sian

      It will eject hot brass straight down into your pants.

    • DW

      It will eject out the front, like say a double F2000(F4000? lol)
      Would still be a demo(ie: range toy) though

  • Daniel

    - “Johnson! We’re out of innovative ideas for a new weapon.”
    - “Add moar barrels!!!111!”

    • BoneOboe

      “If you nail two things together that have never been nailed together before, some schmuck will buy it from you”
      ~George Carlin

  • Joseph

    Looks like it’ll have to eject out both sides.

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/80spodcastchannel nature223

    Same problem as the twin barrel 1911….we may not have those unless they are TITLE two since the BATF considers two shots from DIFFERENT barrels, still a machine gun…and we may not over the counter these as a controlled weapon..
    still a very cool concept… drats.

  • Reverend Clint

    needs an underslung doublebarrel… hear that Red Jacket

    • Metalix

      “Ain’t never been done before!”

      • Reverend Clint

        “finding the ammo for this will be next to impossible”

      • http://www.AllAK47.com Owensolid

        “We’re opening up a new market”

      • The Stig

        I watched only one episode of that show, and yet I’m pretty sure I heard all three of these lines.

    • schizuki

      “Game-changer!”

  • Ghostalker

    I thought the trend was towards lighter more efficient weapons. This seems like it would be incredibly front heavy with two barrels, even without adding any accessories. This is stupid, cool looking, but stupid.

  • http://harqueb.us harqueb.us

    I bet they build it with one side direct-impingement and the other side piston-driven to have the ultimate Internet argument-ender.

    • John Doe

      In that case, they should’ve made one side fire 7.62x39mm. That would be destroyer of arguments.

  • Tekkie

    I guess I’m confused as to the need for such a weapon. It appears in the picture that this will be marketed toward military and LE, both of which already use select-fire AR derivatives.

    My point is, the only real benefit I see here is that you could potentially increase the rate of fire by alternating barrels under full-auto fire. Thing is, I’ve heard a number of situations where guys use mechanisms to actually slow the M4′s current rate of fire. So is there really a demand for a ‘hyper-firing’ AR?

    • noob

      What would two rounds landing within an inch of each other simultaneously do to modern multi-hit plate?

      I’m hoping that the extra ke will damage the plate enough to make it give.

      but that is just a hope. We need to see test results.

    • wry762

      I sincerely hope I never need one of these, but I do find it… interesting. Maybe want. I would not be one of the guys who pay extra to get one of the 1.0 models. Let some other people pay to beta-test – I’ll wait awhile.

      -Warren-

  • AKMSF

    Once that Double Barrel 1911 came out, somebody had to take it to the next level…

  • Michael B

    Just curious about the buffer system.. Seems both bolts would have to be connected and linked to a central buffer with harder spring. seems to me that you wouldn’t be able to have alternately firing barrels on an ar-15 style platform.

  • battery

    i notice that the poor guy holding it is covered head to toe in blacktical gear. anyone else thinking maybe he is trying to hide his identity of having to hold this thing for the publicity shots?

    • Nadnerbus

      He spent all his money on super ninja gear and didn’t have any left over for a nice optic.

      • http://harqueb.us harqueb.us

        And with the quad-rail and double barrels, it should have two red dot sights for true “both eyes open” firing.

  • hikerguy

    Like the double-barreled 1911, it is highly impractical. It will, at the most, make for an interesting conversation piece.
    Really, though, I just don’t get it.

  • snuggles

    *Yawn* Not tacticool enough! Get back to me when you make it in .22 caliber. :-p

    So if one of the two rounds misfires do you think it still cycles?

  • Slim

    Uh-huh…… I see….. I think… So does this mean since they have been scratching at the bottom of the barrel for tacticool ideas (lever gun being the last) and zombie themed everything from firearms, ammo and reloading, they are now going to be on this double rifle/pistol/shotgun idea now? I know I know, if someone wants to spend money on it, it is their right, but as someone previously stated, why not spend this innovation for something, oh I don’t know…. Not a total waste of manufacturing time. I would rather see this money and designing going into creating a Scholfield in .357 that is not $850+, or Henery rifle in .22(exact same design as the orginal) or Spencer rifle(.22, 38, 357 etc), or M1 garand (for under a grand), or a 1896 Broomhandle, or a Martini Henry rifle in .308, or (insert your dream gun). Well guess this is were the old adage of “more money than sense” comes to play.

    • FindYourInnerWoodsman

      I was just thinking about a schofield in .357… Not sure why S&W hasnt tried to run a few specials with this.

      • Canthros

        A top-break revolver in .357 would be pretty sexy, but they’d probably need to re-engineer the the latch/top strap to account for the higher pressure and flame cutting. That R&D work may make a smallish run impractically expensive for marketing.

      • Chrontius
      • Andrew

        Wow, thanks for that mp-412 link i’ve been scouring the internet looking for a topbreak revolver that doesn’t look it was designed in the victorian era. I know alot of you are schofield fans, I think there hideous. The size of the hynge is rediculous. Is this the topbreak from MW3? I could never figure out where that one came from, and really wanted one.

  • nathan

    twice as shitty!

  • fred

    Silver shadow is..

    http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/collective-nouns.aspx

    One company.. two barrels..

    Bah..
    Author is English?

    Readers are English?

  • http://elastomatik.wordpress.com/ Edgar Castelo

    Twice as many chances to jam, or is it square the chances?

    • J-

      Its the factorial.

  • bbmg

    why stop at two barrels? http://i2.guns.ru/forums/icons/attachments/49346.jpg

    and it wasn’t just those nutty Russians that were up to it:

    http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/1903/salvozd0.jpg

    • Eric S

      The ‘ripper’ gun was the first thing I thought of as well. Of course they did this pre-gatling with the Nordenfelt Gun. As for this, ours is not to reason why, ours is to ask “how much?”

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordenfelt_gun

      • chris

        the gatling gun was invented in 1862… that has more than three barrels. i win

  • Trev

    Must be fun trying to clear a quadruple feed.

    • Kristopher

      Or even worse, clearing a simultaneous failure to feed / failure to eject.

  • pete

    I’m concerned there won’t be enough clearance for the newish quad-stack magazines. I mean, I’m not saying it’s a good idea at all in practical terms, but it’d be a tragedy to see a company go this far and not run it into the endzone by having octo-stack capability.

    • http://smcfirearms.com/ Gregory Markle

      MWG will have to develop a version of their 90-round drum to be used in the right hand mag well on this abomination! Then rather than simply dual-wielding twin M-16 shorties with Beta C-mags and dumping them downrange my buddy Mike can dual-wield twin, TWIN M-16s with 180 rounds each! I’ll gladly let him pelt me with brass to get video of something that ridiculous!

      • pete

        that’d work too: opposed-chirality drum capability. Come to think of it, that would make better use of the non-bull-pupness from which it suffers compared to that triple-rifle ‘bbmg’ linked a pic of. I think that is important, because with something this exotic, it’s like a sports record, the last few points or milliseconds of time are the point. They’ve already gone beyond but still I’d like to see them lay on the probably-excessive features as thick as possible.

  • Jeff

    I think this is following the trend towards trying to get smaller weapons to function in a squad automatic role. IF this thing is firing alternating barrel to barrel, rather than in tandem, that increases its RPM while giving slightly more time for each respective barrel to cool. It just comes down to fine tuning between that rate of fire and time for cooling.

    The only issue I see is that it can’t be all that accurate or easy to aim both barrels… then again when has a machinegun been able to get tight groupings?

    • bbmg

      The promoters of the CBJ-MS seem to reckon that fitted with a bipod and 100 round magazine, their little submachinegun can fullfill that role… http://www.gotavapen.se/gota/cbj/cbj_ms.htm

      For the weight of two AR-15s, can’t you have just one with a heavy finned barrel that is just as capable of sustained fire?

      • Lew

        The CBJ-MS has been vapourware for as long as I’ve been shooting. Every now and then some bloke comes on to Swedish army/gear-forums and talks about how great it is, how he’s been testfiring it and how it would replace every weapon short of 155mm arty if it wasn’t for stupidity and corruption. I’m fairly sure it doesn’t work (because by now a thing as simple as that would have been fielded five times over).

      • bbmg

        I think it goes too far by offering a complete system. Why (as I have moaned on this blog ad nauseum) not take the bullet design and scale it up to 9mm – with a 6mm tungsten penetrator instead of the 4mm one it currently has – so it will fit any current 9mm weapon, offering a high velocity armour piercing round capability while still retaining the capacity to fire full bore hollowpoints when needed.

      • Beaumont

        Careful there. When you talk about obscure Swedish weapons, you run the risk of Swedish Joel chiming in with some (mis-spelled) name-calling.

      • bbmg

        positive review from Tony Williams: http://sadefensejournal.com/wp/?p=625

  • John Doe

    I’m waiting for Red Jacket to come out with the 12 gauge Gatling version.

  • Joe Schmoe

    Thanks for posting it.

    The only thing I can figure is that this is meant to penetrate body armor in close quarters due to the fact that you have two rounds landing an inch apart simultaneously… or maybe one of the barrels is on a slight delay of milliseconds.

  • gir6543

    april fools joke in may? Steve you are getting pretty sneeky, I almost believed something this stupid had really been developed

    • Robert M

      April fools? Just watch the news. With Obama in office seems like everyday is april fools, as some of their ideas are downright stranger than fiction.

      The idea that out government can force us under penalty of law to buy a specific commercial product is far more fanciful and fictional than a double barreled, double reliable rifle.

      I seem to remember double barrel weapons being experimented with in some sport, what was that? Oh yeah, every trap and skeet competitor in the world. Ask them how inaccurate and useless their O/Us are!

  • SouthpawByNW

    Will this need to have 2 triggers in order for it to be legal in the US? I’d think with one trigger the BATFE would have the ability to call this an automatic weapon if one trigger squeeze causes two rounds to be fired. Thoughts?

    • dg13

      or it could be done with one trigger, if one barrel fires on pull, and the other fires on release.

      fire on pull + release triggers are known to be legal. But I would prefer 2 triggers next to each other, that way you could pull both if you want, or just one.

    • SPC Fish

      honestly there is only some truth in your statement. if both rounds fire at the same time then it should be legal because there is still only one shot per pull of the trigger. if it fires in burst then it would be considered a machinegun. and if it shot one single round with each pull of the trigger but alternated shots from each barrel then it would be the bees knees

  • http://atripdownsouth.blogspot.com/ trip

    Two is one, none is one?

  • wtf

    WTF was in their heads when they did it ?
    I guess nothing but the string that conects their ears.

  • rcsob657

    Well, it’s a start in the right direction. :D

    [IMG]http://i46.tinypic.com/34t5xfd.jpg[/IMG]

  • Mike Knox

    Double-You-Tea-Eff?

  • Jeff Smith

    I can’t help but wonder what the difference in the point of impact would be at longer distance. At, say, 100 yards would the point of impact(s) of both rounds be the inch or so that the barrels are set apart? What would that distance be at 200 or 300 yards? I assume that the point of impact of each barrel would eventually diverge – is there any way to correct that problem?

    Also, are the firing systems separate or joined? If the bolt carriers are somehow joined (like they are with the double 1911) or set to fire two rounds at the exact same time, would it be possible for the gun to extract one of the rounds (in the event of defective round) as it is being fired and fire out of battery?

    • Jeff Smith

      Also, how long before the “Zombie Hunter Edition” is released?

    • Reverend Clint

      this might be fanciful but what if at like 200yds the barrels/bullets meet?

      • Paul

        Then you’ve crossed the streams… and you don’t want to cross the streams unless Egon tells you to cross the streams.

      • Jeff Smith

        Reverend Clint,

        Or worse: One of your rounds is on target and the other is several feet in a different direction. I know something like this isn’t made to be a “precision” weapon, but what if one round is on target and the other is off enough to clear the backstop of a range that you are at or enough to miss your intended target and hit something else?

        I wonder if there is any way to adjust your point of impact on one or both of the barrels

    • Bandito762

      im guessing the gasses release from one barrel are going to really mess up the trajectory of the bullet coming out of the other barrel so accuracy will be pretty bad

    • Robert M

      “If the bolt carriers are somehow joined (like they are with the double 1911) or set to fire two rounds at the exact same time, would it be possible for the gun to extract one of the rounds (in the event of defective round) as it is being fired and fire out of battery?”

      Think of it this way: that doubles reliability! If one round misfires, the round that fires would extract both, recharge both chambers…and save your life by preventing having to clear a jam. It’s much the same principal behind a gatlin design…ever seen one of those misfire and need to be cleared? Nope, because it doesn’t happen, it just moves to the next barrel and ejects the spent round.

      • Cymond

        First, the General Electric multi-barrel gun was basically an electrically-driven updated Gatling gun, and they were known for jamming due to an issue in the feed drive system, and the jams were not fun or fast to clear. Apparently Dillion Aero has cleared the problem up quite considerably and can even retrofit problematic GE guns.

        However, double barrels do NOT increase reliability, they DEcrease it. Yes, one barrel would continue to function if the other barrel hits a dud round. However, most malfunctions are not dud rounds but rather failures to feed, extract, or eject. If either barrel misfeeds, then both barrels stop. It effectively doubles your chances for a stoppage. Of course, all of this assumes a linked bolt system like the linked slides on the double 1911.

  • Teknix

    I’ll get this with a double barrel M203 mounted on it and carry a double barrel 1911 as my side arm. You all wouldn’t understand cause you’re not a tactical elite operator like me.

  • Graham 1

    Yo dawg I heard you like rifles, so we put an AR-15 in your AR-15 so you can shoot while u shoot

    • John Doe

      Dawg, I need a M203 on my M203 so I can fire a grenade while I fire a grenade while I shoot.

  • http://smcfirearms.com/ Gregory Markle

    Someone needs to get to work on the M406 grenade launcher…

    • John Doe

      Or a double barrel shotgun. That’ll be a real game changer!

    • http://smcfirearms.com/ Gregory Markle

      …or rather than a double-barreled grenade launcher, just make it 80mm instead! THAT would be intimidating!

  • Reverend Clint

    this is what seal team six is going to use if they ever fight a conjoined terrorist

    • John Doe

      A Siamese twin terrorist? Impossible!

    • bill

      Funniest thing I have heard in a very long time! I am still laughing at your comment/

  • Lance

    I thought many nations like Russia tried this and dumped it. Twin barrels just wasn’t the best idea for CT units.

    • Big Daddy

      Russia used it for many years in their aviation cannons. The gas from on gun would operate the other. It had a high rate of fire and each barrel kept cooler. They used it in their 23mm packs and later 30mm pack like in Migs and my Favorite the SU-25 frogfoot.

      I wonder if this system is similar, high rate of fire, cooler barrel. Still stupid to me.

  • Darrel

    I wonder if they’ll have a binocular mount for it? Oh wait, that’s retarded, just like a double barreled rifle <.<

    • David/Sharpie

      No, a double barrel SxS is cool, if it’s the 2 shot style, but 2 semi/full auto rifles together? Seems dumb to me

  • Big Daddy

    I cannot figure out what this would be used for.

    A solution to a non-existent problem.

    • hikerguy

      Good point. Here in Arkansas we refer to things like this as “The answer to a question that was never asked.”

    • Big Daddy

      I try to keep an open mind but I just could not think of any advantage to a system like this.

      I was in the US Army so I know a bit about practicality of certain gear and I cannot think of any tactical situation which requires this.

      A long time ago I remember a movie that features an American and Chinese Special forces troop each sent to a Pacific island/atoll to fight. The winner settled a political dispute between both nations. The American used a weapon that was 2 9mm Smith & Wesson M76s welded together.

      It was a TV movie starring Darren McGavin called “The Challenge”, 1970.

      I’ll never forget that stupid SMG, I thought it was stupid then and this weapon is just as bad.

  • D

    I’m withholding judgement until they say more about why it is and what it does, functionally. There may be some plausible or reasonable explanation.

    One thing that did occur is that you’d have essentially double the rate of fire for CQB, if you knew there weren’t going to be any hostages or such.

    Certainly, we have more exotic special purpose weapons then this, their just usually not infantry weapons.

    Not every gun is meant for every job, and not every product has to do everything, all at once, for everyone, all the time. We’re perfectly content accepting the existence of .410 gauge 2-inch barreled derringers because their a niche product, useful in a handful of cases; this is no different, likely.

    • bigwhiteyeti

      If stopping power is what it desired, it would seem that upgrading to a bigger calibre would be the answer. The Russians seem to have found a good niche with their 9x39mm subsonic round in short barrelled, hard-hitting CQB weapons.

      I have a feeling this is a “because we can” kind of design, though if the company can justify it well then that’s great.

      I question the utility of doubling the ROF of an assault rifle though. Your average 5.56mm AR-15 cycles at something close to 800 RPM, correct? I have a feeling that pushing this much past 1000 to 1100 would make it uncontrollable in full auto without major recoil reduction additions (muzzle brakes, BARS etc).

  • GreenPlease

    I’ve got an interesting legal question for the knowledgable people on this board. I’m aware that firearms in the U.S. are regulated to firing “one round per pull of the trigger”. What if the trigger was designed like a two stage trigger on a weapon such as this one where each stage was rather distinct and each stage fired a round from each barrel? Would that be legal? Alternately, one could have triggers side by side with one set slightly farther back so that a person could fire two rounds in quick succession with one motion of the finger.

    With all of that said, this is a pretty useless design IMO.

  • Bryan S.

    Interesting.. you could take the gas from one barrel and have it operate the other bolt, and get some interesting cycle times.

    I wonder of all of these arent some way to make the general public of today wise up to how stupid our firearms laws are… especially the NFA.

    • http://pelekesi.wordpress.com pelekesi

      Like the Gast Gun.

  • Alex-mac

    The two barrels, emulate the AN-94 firing two bullets one after another with no recoil pulse. Studies found this lmost double the number of hits made on targets in semi auto.

    Granted this implementation looks goofy, but it could be made to work without much weight penalties and it’s certainly a much simpler system, which was not the case with the An-94. Granted it will be terribly front heavy, really needs to be in a bullpup format.

  • Kellhound

    Any explanation on why they are making this design?

    There have been double barrel auto guns since the Villar-Perosa (It was the first practical one?).
    Usefulnes, thought, depends on many things.

    Will this be useful for wathever it was designed? Time will tell.

  • rike

    What happens to a bodyarmour plate if two 5.56mm hitts with an inch apart?? Will that penetrate ??

    • BombedCarnivore

      Sounds like you need to make a youtube channel to compete with “Will it blend?”

    • Urban

      An idea: Two different types of bullets; AP in magazine, hollowpoint in the other instead of alternating in the same magazine. Possibly a marginal improvement in some situations.

  • http://www.utahsdi.com Utah SDI

    I can’t imagine any agency or military that would be seriously interested in this.

  • Grayson

    Judging from the above comments, I can state with absolute certainty why they developed this contraption:

    To drive all logical, sensible firearm owners crazy.

    Guess what?

    They succeeded. :D

    • Mike Knox

      Now imagine a three barrelled rifle..

      • Grayson

        I’m not quite sure about a 3 barreled rifle…. but:

        I have a copy of The World’s Fighting Shotguns – and in it, one of the chapters has a wealth of info on the Winchester ‘Liberator’ – a 4 barreled, short barreled shotgun.
        Originally developed as a potential export weapon for 3rd world ‘freedom fighters,’ the program did not reach fruition, and only 3 prototype guns were made.
        If someone were to obtain the rights to build the gun, from Winchester, they could concievably market it as a military/SWAT door breaching weapon today. According to Swearengen’s account, the gun was simple, robust, and downright handy, as compared with a pump gun.

        The project got filed away because no one expressed any interest in buying any Liberators. I would purely love to get my hands on one of the prototypes, and only God and somebody at Winchester might know where they might be.

        And if you thing THAT’S nifty, wait till you see a picture of the Colt ‘Defender,’ developed as a riot shotgun…
        A 20 gauge, 8 BARRELED shotgun.
        (I’m not making this up!)

        Cheers.

      • Mike Knox

        I did read about those pluggers. I was talking about combination guns which were multiple guns in one firearm. Rifles, shotguns, the sort, all in one unit. They were even marketed for a while, well maybe some custom jobs nowadays..

  • bill

    This is something those redneck at Red Jacket would make. Then they would claim they invented the AR-15.

    • John Doe

      “Ain’t never been done before!”

  • Mike Knox

    Wasn’t there a post about a Double Barrelled Autoloading Pistol?

  • chris

    red jacket actually claimed that they made ONE of these

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  • http://twitter.com/PCsmackdown Political Smackdown

    so i am calling bullshit how does it work without a double buffer tube?>

    • VIPER5051

      some ars can run without a buffer tube

  • http://twitter.com/PCsmackdown Political Smackdown

    Red Jacket can n ot even produce a bolt without using other companies pictures so i trust nothing they say

  • http://twitter.com/PCsmackdown Political Smackdown

    if they employ the ak system bot the double ar appears to be a direct impingement system