Law Tactical AR-15 Folding Stock Adapter

ar_folding_stock-tfb

Law Tactical has developed an adapter system which allows any AR-15 stock to fold to the side. The system works for all commercial and mil-spec AR-15s.

The system requires an extension to the bolt carrier (which is supplied in the kit). The biggest problem with the kit is that firing the gun with the stock folded disables the gun.

The system sells for a reasonable $179.

UPDATE:

If the gun is fired with the stock open, the bolt will be locked, it won’t injury the user.

The Bolt Carrier Extension part, when installed correctly, will hold the Bolt Carrier Group in place.
**
**The Bolt Carrier Extension will also stop the Bolt Carrier Group from flying out and causing any injury or loss of life if someone should accidentally fire the weapon with the stock folded. If fired when folded, the locking finger will bend, preventing further operation of the weapon until it is replaced. This is done to eliminate the possibility of catastrophic failure of the adaptor due to repeated misuse.

[ Many thanks to Paul at Accurate Shooter for the tip. ]

Related

Steve Johnson

Founder and Dictator-In-Chief of TFB. A passionate gun owner, a shooting enthusiast and totally tacti-uncool. Favorite first date location: any gun range. Steve can be contacted here.


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  • Kurt

    What benefit is derived if you can’t fire the weapon with the stock collapsed. I guess I could see it being helpful for casing the gun, but don’t honestly see a functional benefit. Nice review though. Thanks for the info.

  • http://hunterofdesign.com Ryan C

    Interesting idea, however if you can’t fire it while folded, they’ve invented the worlds most awkward safety. Get a larger gun case, or a carbine.

    Still pretty trick, I’ll admit it.

    • Nadnerbus

      That’s the problem, if I am reading correctly. The gun CAN fire while folded, it will just send the bolt and carrier in a ballistic trajectory towards your face. So less of an elaborate safety feature, and more of an unsafety feature.

      • SP6

        -The Bolt Carrier Extension part, when installed correctly, will hold the Bolt Carrier Group in place.
        -The Bolt Carrier Extension will also stop the Bolt Carrier Group from flying out and causing any injury or loss of life if someone should accidentally fired the weapon with the stock folded.

      • Nadnerbus

        Thanks for the info SP6. And I really don’t mean to be crapping on someone else’s idea and creation. I haven’t come up with anything innovative or cool, so perhaps I have no room to talk.

        But even if the bolt is retained in case of discharge, it still seems like a bad idea. For one, that is a lot of faith in the little retaining pin to not fail. There will be a lot of force coming down that gas tube, and only one thing to stop the bolt carrier from moving. Secondly, I am not sure that will be particularly healthy for the receiver even if the pin works 100% as advertised. Thirdly, as mentioned above, even if all works as planned in case of accidental discharge, you have a non-functioning weapon until you do some gun smithing on it.

        I guess I could see this for the limited market that would like to be able to fold their stock for transportation but doesn’t need their weapon for anything more than the range. Even then, it just seems like a recipe for trouble.

  • Nathaniel

    BAD IDEA.

  • http://seraph.pinkbike.com Seraph

    Another problem might be that since the gun still has the core ability to be fired when the stock is collapsed (even if it would damage the gun) then folding the stock would create an SBR.

    • Nater

      No, it wouldn’t. I have a AK with a 16″ barrel and a Russian AK-100 series folder. It’s not an SBR. Neither is the SCAR-16S/17S. Neither is any rifle with a folding stock. Same rules apply for shotguns.

      • Nater

        That is assuming you live in a free state, of course.

      • Jeff Smith

        Nater,

        What is the overall length of your guns when folded?

        Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe that if the overall length of your rifle/shotgun is less than 24 inches, it still falls into the category of a sbr/sbs.

    • Nater

      You are correct, but rough calculations assuming a 16″ barrel with no muzzle device (or pinned and welded 14.5″) would put this at at least 25″ OAL with the stock folded. Probably longer since I was very conservative estimating how much length the hinge itself would add. My Arsenal is 25.25″ long with the stock folded. Basically any rifle that would be less than 24″ OAL with the stock folded is going to be an SBR anyway because it’ll have a barrel shorter than 16″.

    • W

      As long as its overall length is not less than 26″ inches (stock folded out) and the barrel under 16″.

      A rifle without a buttstock, like the short AKs or armalite ARs without buttstocks, are designated as “pistols”. Buttstock=rifle.

      Dont take my word for it, research 18 USC § 921

  • Other Steve

    Oh hello gimmicky bad idea, I almost didn’t see you there.

  • Joshua

    The people who want a folding stock dont want one to shoot with it folded, they want it to get in and out of vehicles.

    this system allows that

    • Kommac

      I just imagined a fire team under heavy suppressive fire trying to exit their vehicles to return fire (if escaping in the vehicle was not an option at the time) and fumbling to get their now neutered rifles ready to be used as anything more than clubs as 7.62mm rounds and RPGs pepper their vehicle and in the chaos, some eat their bolt carriers. -1

      Just a thought.

      • Joshua

        thats a great theory and all, but firstly this thing has a safety that keeps the BCG from flying out and hitting you in the face.

        second most guys roll on safe to, does that mean they should always be on fire since moving the selector makes their rifles neutered?

        almost every time I saw people come under fire when mounted and not able to get by generally got out of their vehicles laid down suppressive fire and moved on from there

  • Raoul O’Shaugnessy

    Bring me the name of the lawyer that signed off on this thinking it was a good idea so I know who not to hire to vet my new products before they hit the market. (And eventually, it seems, hit the comsumer…in the freakin’ head!)

  • Pliskin

    Dumb idea for an AR but would be cool on a Troy T22 imo.

  • Axel Nordberg

    It doesn’t seem impossible to have some sort of bolt block that could work as a one-time protection mechanism in case the user fires the gun with the stock folded. Cool product

  • Kommac

    Eugene Stoner takes a roll.

  • SPC Fish

    i had thought about doing this a while ago. but never had the manufacturing capabilities. i guess ill just have to work on my next idea.

    and im just glad somebody had the same idea

  • Joseph

    I thought up this idea before but I tossed it out since I felt I wouldn’t want it myself. Product and no passion. But hey, I am glad someone took it up and offered it. People say you don’t need a folder, but they never really needed one. I know how nice it is.

  • AKMSF

    I like it because it’s a sidefolder…I don’t like it because you can’t fire it when folded. Not that you usually do, but at least firing an AK with the stock folded won’t literally kill you. If this had some sort of firing mechanism block that would prevent firing while folded, the it would be at least safe to use, if a bit inconvenient.

  • Alex

    In theory, cool concept and design. However…

    * The adapter does not include an automatic safety that prevents the gun from firing when folded.
    * The only thing separating the shooter from injury is a warning in the installation guide and a barely visible warning on the adapter.
    * When folded, the buffer tube and bolt carrier are completely exposed to moisture and dirt, drastically increasing the chances of malfunction.

    To me that sounds like a disaster and lawsuit just waiting to happen.

    I could not in good conscience recommend this product to anybody.

    • SP6

      The Bolt Carrier Extension part, when installed correctly, will hold the Bolt Carrier Group in place. The Bolt Carrier Extension will also stop the Bolt Carrier Group from flying out and causing any injury or loss of life if someone should accidentally fired the weapon with the stock folded.
      Hope this helps.

  • SAMMY!

    Definitely an accident waiting to happen. There needs to be some sort of trigger-block preventing the trigger from actuating when the stock is folded.

  • jimi

    how about low profile while traveling. (no gun cases) not everyone wants to look like they have an ar on them maybe just a bag. this system will fire up to 3 times open before the blocker malufunctions on the hinge itself not damaging the weapon. if u have that many acds you need to rotate the weapon 180 and help us out.simply just making an option for certain apps and of course the millions of buffer spring driven ars that may need to be smaller.

  • Vhyrus

    Um…. explain why I would buy this over a SCAR or ACR again?

    • KC

      cost.

      • Vhyrus

        So cost justifies an unsafe product? No wonder China makes so many products!

    • W

      If you want a “functional” folding stock weapon bad enough, yes, spend the money on the SCAR or ACR (or a underfolder AK).

      I dont see the point in carrying your weapon around with the stock folded, taking the second or two to fold it out, then shoot if you need to. pointless. If your stock causes that much of a hindrance, grow stronger.

  • D

    Yet another product for an extreme edge case.

    I do not know why you’d not spend engineering resources designing a folding stock that didn’t interfere with firing operations, just on principle.

    • Vhyrus

      At the very least they could have designed so the guts don’t come flying out if you pull the trigger. I thought of a design in about 10 minutes that would prevent the action from cycling but keep the bolt in in case of an accident.

      • SP6

        If fired folded the locking finger will bend, preventing further operation of the weapon until it is replaced. This is done to eliminate the possibility of catastrophic failure of the adaptor due to repeated misuse.

  • Goombah

    why not just use an AK? or a rifle designed from the ground up to accept a folding stock. b/c some idiot is gonna shoot the damn thing with stock folded and “shoot his eye out”

  • Nadnerbus

    Oh man, that scares me.

    In the Video, the one guy runs to his target, flips the stock out, then has to go back and flip it the rest of the way. What happens in the heat of the moment when you think you have the stock flipped all the way out and then pull the trigger? This setup is big trouble waiting to happen, to fix a very marginal problem.

    Plus, more parts, more points of failure. How does the Bolt Carrier extension connect to the carrier?

    The setup looks solid and well made, but still makes me nervous. If they can do it with some sort of trigger block as mentioned, then it’s a bit better, but still kind of a solution in search of a problem.

  • Jay.Mac

    If you so desperately need a weapon with a folding stock, don’t buy an AR. Or look into the folding stock Colt made that collapses around the buffer tube for their SCW. I’m sure some enterprising company makes something similar

    I just don’t see the utility of a folding stock that renders the firearm unable to shoot.

    • El Duderino

      Tens of thousands of Kel-Tec SU-16 owners disagree. Makes for a poor man’s takedown AR. This is the real thing. Of course, the SU-16 is gas piston so you could actually go pistol grip with a folding stock (and usable in that configuration) if you wanted to.

  • Lou Arthur

    hmmm… seems not safe, needs a trigger lockout or firing pin block of some form. ZM had it right with the LR-300, get rid of the buffer tube completely, too bad Para is now not doing anything with it.

  • BombedCarnivore

    When I get around to building an AR I’m probably going to get one simply to make range trips on my Honda Shadow much easier. Pull off the upper & fold the stock & I can easily drop it in the bags.

  • Ben

    AR’s are running such short barrels these days I don’t really see why you would need to make it shorter. 10″ and even 14″ barrel models are fine for vehicle work. If I was in such tiny, cramped conditions I would still rather run something that isn’t going to literally bolt my shoulder into whatever or whoever is behind me and I know has been tried and tested.

    Plenty of other designs offer solid side folding action – newer expensives ones such as the ACR and SCAR or many of the AK variants. Their usefulness when fired from the folded position is questionable as well…

  • mred

    A gun that shoots at both ends……a little counterproductive.

  • West

    They should incorporate a safety feature that will not allow a mag to be inserted with the stock folded and not allow the stock to fold with a mag inserted.

  • RickH

    Don’t worry, it’s completely safe. See where it says “Do Not Fire” when the stock is folded? Completely safe.

  • Fred

    That’s one of the stupidest things I’ve ever seen.

  • Beaumont

    In the history of bad ideas, this one blazes new trails.

  • DaveR

    Does this mean that the charging handle latch is the only thing keeping the carrier from spilling out of the gun?

    • SP6

      NO, The Bolt Carrier Extension part, when installed correctly, will hold the Bolt Carrier Group in place. The Bolt Carrier Extension will also stop the Bolt Carrier Group from flying out and causing any injury or loss of life if someone should accidentally fired the weapon with the stock folded. Hope this helps.

      • Big Daddy

        Did you test it or is this an assumption on your part? How many ARs did you mess up before you declared this safe?

        Just askin’.

  • WhatsHisFace

    Look, they invented the recoilless rifle.

  • Matt

    Thats another reason I love my SIG 556. Folding stock, AR mags, no bolt in the face.

  • 032125

    I know that the bandwagon gang-bang is in full effect here, but let’s just assume that you put your weapon on safe before you get in the vehicle. It looks like you’d have to unfold the stock to get at the safety to fire the weapon. Surely all of you safety monitors always put your weapon on safe before you get into a vehicle with a loaded rifle, right?

    Not gonna buy one, I’m just thinking aloud here.

  • Paul

    I nominate this for one of the dumbest and dangerous inventions ever devised for the AR platform.

    • http://www.debunkers.org/ SPQR

      I’ve seen worse, but I can’t argue that this is not a good idea.

  • Mike Knox

    #3 image: “DO NOT FIRE”, No D’uh.

    From what I know, Z-M has something better. An AR-15 that can shoot with the stock folded..

  • Durham68

    This is a great idea for all the guys shopping for the latest “sneaky bag”. You could fit an m4 sized AR into standard backpack with no trouble. No more need for bags or cases that scream “Look what I’ve got” when leaving the house for a range session.

    I like it.

  • David / Sharpie

    Cool idea, but I’ll pass until they come out with something a little more safe.

    Good thinking, not so great execution.

    To LAW Tac, keep working on it, you’ll get it right. What about putting a strong spring so when you flip it open the srping makes it fly open? The guy running didn’t flip it out all the way and had to go back, a spring would assist in opening and latching it.

    • Soless

      The something safe you’re looking for is the Para TTR.

  • Mike

    They don’t detail it, but if you look carefully at the pics on their site, it looks like there is a safety feature included. Notice that when it folds, there’s a “tooth” that extends from the hinge and engages the slot in the bolt carrier extension. The will prevent the carrier from moving, and thus the bolt unlocking if a round is inadvertently fired when the stock is folded. So, it can still fire once and not kill you. Assuming they’ve done all the math on the materials and forces there.

  • Jean Luc Picard

    I think the system is good for that kind of rifles, however it should be included with some kind of lock that simply sets the weapon in safe position when the stock is not fully deployed and locked in position.
    So your rifle is set in safe position when folded and selected fire mode when unfolded.

    • David / Sharpie

      I don’t think that’s possible, I can just see whatever mechanism that is binding the action when you go to fire it….

      It’d be better to have a carrier lock so it doesn’t fly back, make it single shot I gues…if you fired it with it folded, of ND’ed it with it folded and the rifle NOT on safe

    • SP6

      The Bolt Carrier Extension part, when installed correctly, will hold the Bolt Carrier Group in place. The Bolt Carrier Extension will also stop the Bolt Carrier Group from flying out and causing any injury or loss of life if someone should accidentally fired the weapon with the stock folded. Hope this helps.

  • Big Daddy

    When I first read it I immediately thought of a modified really short buffer and spring. It would go between the upper and butt stock only adding a at most 2 inches between the upper and stock. That would be great, I wondered how they did it. Similar to the Colt folding stock but shorter.

    Then I read the article and went NO WAY!!!!! Sorry this is an accident waiting to happen. No matter how careful shooters are someone will get distracted not close it completely and put a bolt into somewhere that it doesn’t belong.

    As your mom might say it could take your eye out.

    • SP6

      If fired when folded the locking finger will bend, preventing further operation of the weapon until it is replaced. This is done to eliminate the possibility of catastrophic failure of the adaptor due to repeated misuse. Hope this helps you.

      • Andrew

        I was wondering when that sort of tidbit was going to come out since all that energy coming down the gas tube has to go somewhere!

        Then this is worse than dangerous – it’s ok, if you forget and fire, you won’t be hurt by the bolt ’cause we lock it in place…..

        But you are equally screwed ’cause doing do stuffs up the weapon from being able to fire again until you tear it down!

        Heaven forbid you were dumb enough to put this on a piston converted AR – hell knows what failure that would cause.

        SP6 – I suggest that you need to take this back to the drawing board and add some form of interrupter that means it cannot fire whilst folded.

        Sorry but this comes across as something done and released without thinking it all the way through or indeed full lifecycle testing. That tab controlling all this looks mighty small to guarantee that even with it unfolded fully, if you have done it enough, that interlock would fully disengage.

        As others have said, you need to fold that small, part from the potential legal issues on length, buy something designed to do it

      • jdun1911

        I agree the best solution to the problem is to prevent it from firing while folded.

  • MarkK

    Get an AR-15, find a rather bad solution to a “problem” other guns don’t have, call it innovation.

  • http://twobirdsflyingpub.wordpress.com Sal Palma

    DO NOT FIRE should be in RED! Ouch…

    • http://zbranekvalitne.cz/ Czechnology

      Get a red nail polish.

  • DRod

    All this worry and complaining… If you don like it, don’t buy it.
    Read the info.
    There is a block to prevent the bolt from flying out.
    In the “heat of the moment” or “on patrol”, you should have the foresight to have it unfolded to begin with.
    This is a storage, carry aid IMO and will aid in some situations.
    I break my colt down and stow it because walking through my apartment complex with an obvious gun bag doesn’t sit well with me.
    This would save me wear and tear on my takedown pins and keep it more closed to the elements than my current routine.
    Why not a scar? Have you priced a scar?

    • SP6

      DRod,
      Thank You, finally someone with some common sense.
      Everyone on here for some reason thinks that they are “ALWAYS” in the middle of a fire fight and will only then suddenly decide to unfold their stock.

      • Andrew

        SP6 – actually most of the comments are not about firing this folded (safety of the design clearly is the biggest question) but that certainly is one major question given the most likely use case.

        Most certainly that is exactly who you seem to be marketing to in the video – that silly walking and folding/unfolding in the video just serves to highlight the issue that you need to waste precious time unfolding if caught since it can’t fire closed and if you do it’s done since you had better hit with the first shot.

        You don’t want people to focus on that then don’t make it a feature you stress in the video

        Most of the questions are related directly to safety both short term and long term with this device and the chances for someone to get hurt seem large – as someone has ask, just how extensive have you tested the various failure modes, both new and worn? How sure are you that the strength of that tab is high/low enough for all the possible AR’s out there, in various calibers that it’s safe – ’cause if it aint, they will be coming for you if someone does get hurt.

        I can appreciate your being vested in this idea but you released this to be seen, don’t be surprised if people question both the use case you say you are trying to solve and how good or bad that solution looks at first blush and ask just how good the engineering and QA behind it is.

      • DRod

        Marketing 101: Chapter One “Hype”

        Your Ford Raptor will not perform as advertised without bending the frame.
        Your Big Mac isn’t very big.
        Your cell phone coverage sucks compared to the ATT stores maps.

        This is how you sell things to the public. People with any common sense sees through that to the redeeming factors of a certain product.

        The Raptor looks badass on the beach.
        The Big Mac tastes awesome.
        And I can surf porn and TFB on my iphone all day long.

      • jdun1911

        If I’m entering into a known combat zone, my rifle would already be unfolded. This isn’t about going into hostile territory. This is about a friend/family picking up the rifle and decided without knowing folded the stock up and shot it.

  • Jeff Smith

    Ii wouldn’t mind seeing a company include this on a sbr package that comes in a briefcase.

  • Lance

    You shouldn’t shoot with any stock folded away on any gun. I like the idea for moterised infantry and for Cops this make one portable AR definitely a good idea.

    • David / Sharpie

      Not the same as can’t though, having the stock folded makes it more compact, like you said for motorized infantry and cops this would be good, and if they need to fire it, they should be able to fire it.

      • Lance

        You can make it better to travel with you NEVER NEVER shoot with any rifle with the stock folded you waste ammo and accuracy. Overall the idea is to make the AR more transportable and fold it out to fight with.

      • David / Sharpie

        Ever heard of suppressive fire? In an ambush the primary goal is to get lead downrange, get a defensive position then engage.

        I’m going to want a compact weapon that has a folding stock, deploy, then unfold stock, I’m not going to want to f**k around with a longer gun while in very close confinements.

        Yes, firing a folded gun is inaccurate, but it’s better than trying to get a full length gun up when there isn’t room. Or not being able to fire with the stock folded when BEING able to may save your life.

      • Joshua

        David our vehicles have bullet proof glass. you will not be shooting through the windows of your HMMWV or whatever they have you rolling in.

        fact is generally if you are stuck you open your door, get out and set a perimeter, then work your way from there.

        Suppressive fire is not just shooting in bad guys general direction. suppressive fire is aimed accurate fire that hits close to the enemy. that keeps their heads down, just “slinging lead” in there direction generally doesnt do anything productive and just wastes ammo. this is what happened at Wanat.

      • David/Sharpie

        Joshua, please tell me where I said to shoot through the glass? And shooting a folded rifle would be like firing a long pistol with 2 hands correct? I don’t know about you but I can shoot pretty well with a pistol, well enough for suppressive fire.

        Maybe you need a full rifle in order to hit your target with any sort of accuracy, but not everyone does.

    • Lance

      Thats crap you dont just fling lead from a folded gun most cases you wont make it out alive it the enemy pinned you in your car. so folding stocks are a waste of time any way. full auto spraying is waste of time and ammo is is not shown to cops and solders its old school tactics proven not to work.

      • David / Sharpie

        So shooting at the enemy isn’t taught to police and soldiers? Hmm, that doesn’t seem right.

        The point of sending lead down range is to put the enemies heads down, you can do that with a rifle like the AK, 58 or G3 for example, with this stock you can’t, I know this stock adapter is for compactness and ease of transport, but the ability to fire a folding stock weapon is a plus, the stock being folded doesn’t make it useless to fire it

    • Bandito762

      I don’t need to be that accurate shooting down my hallway at intruders with my ak underfolder

      • Bandito762

        not that that happens all the time, I am just saying that there are instances when it could be advantageous to have the stock folded while shooting

      • DRod

        Seriously?… You don’t need to be accurate firing down the hallway of your own home?

    • DRod

      Simply put, David/Sharpie… Don’t buy this product, it is clearly not what you need for your ambushes.

      • David/Sharpie

        I wouldn’t anyways, just saying to Lance that some may need a folding stock that allows you to fire your rifle, instead of being forced to take the time to flip it open.

    • Bandito762

      Lance, I am curious if you have ever fired a rifle with the stock collapsed. If so, did it have a foregrip or sling? Firing without the stock is less accurate than firing with it but with the right technique it can still be fairly accurate and useful in situations such as close quarters where a full length rifle would be difficult to manipulate for example through doorways or hallways.

  • Kent J

    So, according to recent comments on here it’s reasonably safe, there is a safety mechanism to keep the bolt carrier group contained, but I have a hypothetical question…

    I’m don’t own an AR-15, nor have I assembled one, and I’m not an expert in how they work (I have shot a few fwiw). Forgive my ignorance here for a second though… How heavy is the bolt carrier group? I assume it doesn’t take a lot of force to cycle the action. You can after-all cycle it with your hand. Also, only part of the energy from the round is being used to cycle the action.

    Would it really become a deadly projectile? Are there any accounts of people with poorly assembled or damaged ARs being injured by such a failure?

    For the record, given what I’ve read in the comments I’m surprised so many of you have such bad things to say about this stock. Isn’t the cry around here always about “trigger finger control” and “there’s no such thing as an accidental discharge”? Glocks have no safety switch and apparently don’t need them. I know it’s not apples to apples, but seriously. It’s apparently not going to kill you and sounds like it’s not an expensive part to replace if you do discharge it.

    • DRod

      If your line of work or your locality has a high risk of ambush and you require a folding stock, buy a folding stock ak or sig.
      I don’t see anyone claiming this to be an alternative to a sig or ak folder.
      It you want to stow and go, buy this.

      Wow, that was simple.

  • Brandon

    It’s an interesting idea if want it for storage/transportation. If I had one, I simply wouldn’t chamber a cartridge with it in the folded position.

  • DRod

    I don’t see anyone claiming this to be an alternative to a sig or ak folder.
    It you want to stow and go, buy this.
    If you KNOW you might need a folding rifle, buy one.
    Wow, that was simple.

  • DRod

    Integrate a rotation limited QD and I’ll buy one.

    • DRod

      Also, stake your castle nuts. Come on guys. :)

      • Andrew

        the way the one on the receiver is recessed, I don’t think it’s possible to stake it – given the level force on the stock as it folds back and forth, the chances of the receiver end nut working loose is probably pretty good – even a small force up/down as the stock swings is going to be a good bit of torque at the nut

        Also looking at the instructions, you are reliant on a small spring and hex screw to keep the combined lock/interlock in place and that pin holding the whole thing shut does not look very stout – it looks to be rounded so it slips in place as you close it rather than a positive locking action you have to push to get back into place – that’s FLAT OUT dangerous

        A bit of wear on that one pin and loss of spring tension and I would not bet against this thing coming apart when you fire – what slips one way can easily slip the other

        http://www.lawtactical.com/instructions.pdf

      • DRod

        The plate is right there next to the castle nut. There isn nothing preventing it from being staked…

      • DRod

        Also, side folders do not usually require to to press the button to lock it open. You just pull it open and it snaps into place with the button only releasing the stock to be folded. Thats pretty normal there.
        The endplate is fully capable of being staked to the castle nut thats holding it.

      • DRod

        The button is generally only used to unlock the extended stock for folding.

      • Andrew

        sorry – posted in the wrong place

        ah DRod – there’s two castle nuts……..

        Yes you can stake the one holding the stock and tube on but you can’t get to the one holding the whole assembly onto the receiver!

        As for button pushing – those are on systems where you DON’T expose the action to the outside world!

        AK, SCAR etc etc don’t have a risk from the stock unfolding causing the action to jam up or fly out

        This part does just the opposite – it exposes the middle of the action with moving parts and not having a positive action to lock the action and ensure it stays that way is dangerous

      • DRod

        The half that mounts to the receiver has a stud that interfaces with the area of the receiver that is usually covered by the stock end plate. That will keep it from rotating off. With it closed(stock extended), the castle nut INSIDE, has no way to back out. With it open, there is the safety that pops up, so it doesn’t appear to have any free space to back out into.

        What does exposing the action to the outside world have anything to do with your previous statements regarding its button?

        Im going to go out on a limb here and tell you that you probably aren’t the target demographic for this product.

      • DRod

        Also, I don’t consider this to fill the same role as a folding AK or SCAR so I wouldn’t compare them.

        Bottom line, if you don’t like it and want to fire from a folded stock, for what ever reason… Buy a SCAR.

      • Andrew

        The issue on the button is have a good look at the design of the button and the latch that protrudes to catch it. That is also the safety interlock since they are one and the same part.

        The button is rounded and the latch has features to let it roll the button back and then pop into the latch….without you having to push it in to do so.

        That means brand new, with the button and latch unworn and a new spring, you are ok with everything closed up

        Give it some time, with dirt in the button/interlock assembly causing any binding on the plate or spring against the housing, wear on the button and the latch or spring, you now have a design that can fail when it looks like it is closed and “locked” but is not since it is not a postive lock. Hell even open, you could also have the same situation where it does not come back far enough to catch the bolt if it was fired open.

        All of the load of the recoil spring and buffer, the unsecured bolt carrier extension and all the stored recoil energy can and will be on the other side of the break you have now got in the buffer tube.

        If that latch lets go during any part of the action stroke…..your face will be right there next to it

        It’s not a question of target market – this thing has simple failure modes that are just flat out dangerous and does not look to have the full measure of engineering and testing to eliminate those risks.

  • Tinkerer

    Just a thought: in Russia, gun laws forbidsl ong firearms of under certain overall lenght, so the Saiga 12-K for that market, equipped with AK-style plastic furniture and side-folding stock, has an internal mechanism that prevents it from firing with it’s stock folded.

    http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/saiga12.shtml

  • John

    So the benefit of having a folding stock is negated because you cant shoot the weapon…

    • DRod

      There are more than one benefit of a folding stock.
      If you feel the need to fire your RIFLE like a pistol, buy a weapon with which you can do so. This is not it.

  • Andrew

    ah – there’s two castle nuts……..

    Yea you can stake the one holding the stock and tube on but you can’t get to the one holding the whole assembly onto the receiver!

    • http://suburbansdomain.blogspot.com/ Suburban

      You can use threadlocker on the other castle nut. Oh, you’ll most likely have a lot of trouble getting it loose again, but it’s not likely to shoot loose.

  • Joe Hooker

    I think it’s a neat idea. With any weapon system, you have to learn about its shortcomings and adapt. If you can’t fire it when folded? then work around it, practice and practice until you’re good.

    It’s the same with bullpup users or DA/SA triggers on pistols, work around it and you’re golden.

    This is the neatest shit I’ve seen for ARs and I don’t even like ARs to begin with. You can stow it easier.

  • Benjamin

    Frankly speaking a folding stock weapon without the capability to fire folded kind of kills half of its function and usefulness. The safety should hopefully be sufficiently strong to withstand most commercial loads. Having some of the insides exposed isn’t a very good idea too. Generally it doesnt seem to be a weapon that increases user confidence.

    I feel that readers of this blog has the right to have polite conversation about the topic posted here, just like other posts. Unfortunately there appears to be self-appointed comment-police being snarky. Just as on other posts, readers may also post their opinions about equipment they may not use.

    • DRod

      It definitely has a place in the market. My upper and lower are separate in my bag every time I go to the range. I live in an apartment complex. I see at least two people every time I walk through to my truck. Before I bought the “discrete” case I have now, I was asked every other time I took my AR to my truck, “What kinda gun you shoot?” or “Are you in da army or somethin?” My bag is clean, but I have found empty brass in my lower after getting home. Brass from other shooters, dirt from the range, and anything else is free to gather in my bag while Im out and therefore, free to gather in my firearm. On top of that, I assemble my gun on the firing line. I have my previously stated reasons for doing so and I generally don’t care too much about what people think, but I imagine I look like one of those douches trying to imitate an action flick sitting there assembling my black rifle before shooting it and as I also stated before, I don’t care for the attention. For 180 bucks, I can fold it, stow it and go to the range… Pull it out of my bag, flip it open and go. All without exposing my bolt, firecontrol group or any large cavernous inner areas of my AR to the previously mentioned flotsam. Any dust that can gather around the buffer with this set up, I would venture to guess, would be no worse than any other suppressor blow back, dirt or carbon that builds up from normal fire.
      Worried about firing it with it open? I’ll say this right now. If I “accidentally” fire it with it open, I will be MUCH MUCH more concerned with where that round went than with the status of my bolt.

      If you have certain expectations from a product like this, it is golden.

      • Benjamin

        Well, most of the commercially products on this blog has a market. Frankly I have read your reasons and defence of the product about .5 times everyone else’s comments. For a weapon user stripping and assembling is pretty much routine stuff – nothing glamorous about it. Everyone has different ways of handling their weapons, they may not like to carry their weapon disassembled. Not to forget people who do not solely use their weapons for sporting. Simply there is no one-size-fits-all – others have their own expectations too.

        My comment is my opinion of the product, and it appears some other readers had the same opinion as me. However my comment about the weapon with the exposed parts is not simply about reliability, but also that it doesn’t help the user feel any more confident. Think using an AK with the receiver cover on and off.

        As for the “accidental” use, I am thinking along the lines of using the weapon folded. I would like to believe that it is a legitimate worry – some may prepare for situations we don’t prepare for. And they probably do have a legitimate worry about the bolt c group, as well as the inability to use the weapon in folded state repeatedly without having to take apart the rifle.

      • Mike LaForge

        Nicely done. (That’s a period right there)

  • ChrisK

    Seems to me that someone should be able to make a decent side-folding stock based on a short-tube buffer like this: http://www.policeweaponsupply.net/AR15_Pistol_Kits_GSE.html (scroll down to see it disassembled).

    It could basically be a locking half-tube that wraps partway around the 4″ buffer tube with a secure clasp but is made longer by a piece of extension tube in the back, enabling a CAR-like stock to be adjusted an inch or two (not much more due to the swell of the twist-off cap of the shorter tube). The stock portion might even act as the lock by being made to partly cover the tube cap, then overextending it to the rear (like the way a regular CAR-type stock is removed from a standard buffer tube) would allow the half-tube to decouple from the short tube and the whole thing would then fold to the side. With this method, the adapter (which would have to replace the end plate under the castle nut I think) could be flipped over to make it a right-side folder for lefties as well.

    Who’s got a machine shop where we can try this? I’m thinking I should have patented the idea instead of posting it here, LOL! I’d settle for a free stock for each of my ARs! ;-)

    • Kent J

      You can’t patent an idea, only an invention.

      • ChrisK

        True, I really meant I’d have to make one and patent the drawings of the stock’s physical features, but that isn’t as easy to say as “idea” ;-)

  • John Doe

    I love the idea. I’m working on a real nice and compact AR with a PWS 10″ .300 BLK upper, and this could do a lot to make the rifle shorter.

    I imagine a lot of guys in the tactical game would love this. You have short rifles like the Mk18 that could be easily concealed or stowed away in a vehicle like this. A rifle that isn’t much bigger than a lot of submachine guns.

    • Andrew

      pretty sure you want to check on the legality of the depending on where you live – pretty sure pretty much anywhere a 10″ barrel with this mounted would be a no-no especially since it still can fire even if only once

      • David/Sharpie

        If he’s American he would need to SBR/NFA it

      • John Doe

        I have my Class 3. The only thing I love more than big accurate rifles and short and compact rifles.

      • Evan Drince

        Could also be a pistol AR

  • D

    I dunno why people are so adamant on wanting to shoot a rifle while folded, are yall Somalian or something

    • David/Sharpie

      I’mm as white as snow.

      SOME PEOPLE (Cops, soldiers, PMCs etc) may need a rifle you can shoot when the stock is folded, then when you’re in cover, unfold it. So this particular product wouldn’t be for them. This stock is only for ease of transport.

      What about that is so hard to understand?

    • Mike Knox

      Try maneuvering a rifle around a window or around a vehicle for a quick shot with a full length stock, you’ll flag yourself or stick the muzzle somewhere you don’t want it…

  • JT

    Would this thing be State AWB legal? If it can fire once while folded, than wouldn’t it count as a folding stock? Or maybe it wasn’t made to be fired while folded, so it’s legal?

  • Don Russell

    u could shoot it ONCE, and if it saves your life, why CARE that the gun got disabled by doing so? Where’s your pistol, anyway? For much of the sort of shooting envisioned for the folded longarm, a pistol would suffice, cause you are just talking about making a lot of noise, not hitting anything.

    • Nater

      I usually don’t respond to necroposts, but your post was simply ridiculous. Any weapon that WILL break after one shot is not acceptable. End of story. Specifically in your scenario, what if you miss? What if there are multiple attackers? What if one hit doesn’t do the job? Et cetera, et cetera.

      There probably aren’t very many experts here when it comes to close combat with firearms, there are very few to begin with, but at least the majority here have enough brains to not accept such a critically flawed system.

  • Don Russell

    if that one shot saves your life, why would you CARE if the gun was ruined by it, hmm? If you think that you’ll miss a lot, or have lots of instanneous attackers, you are deluded, or you’ll soon be dead, one or the other.

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